What Changes after Marriage?

Unrealistic expectations lead to disappointment.

Readership: All; Singles especially;
Theme: Risk Assessment
Length: 3,400 words
Reading Time: 12 minutes

Introduction

If you think about it, men and women have diametrically opposite expectations of a spouse in marriage.

  • Married men expect their wives to maintain the domestics and care for children.
  • Married women want their husbands to work hard, earn more, and be successful in their careers.

Marriage tends to enable these endeavors.

  • Married men expect their wives to wag their @ss, not their tongue.
  • Married women want their husbands to wag their tongue, not their @ass.

Marriage tends to reverse these behaviors.

  • Married men often complain that their wives changed after they got married.
  • Married women often complain that their husbands DIDN’T change after they got married.

Also,

  • Married men expect their wives to be fully content with monogamy.
  • Not so with women! In this video, Kevin Samuel notes that many women actually like it when their man receives sexualized attention from other women, and for a multitude of reasons (e.g. confirmation of status, drama, Dread, etc.). (Women like this can’t have this pleasure if they don’t bag a HSMV man.)

Obviously, there are some wildly divergent expectations at play here.

Foolish Expectations

People have no idea of the menagerie they’re getting into when they get married.

The common notions that single Christian young men have about marriage, is that it will (1) immediately assuage their sense of entitlement concerning love and romance, and (2) grant them unfettered access to guilt-free and shame-free sex on a daily basis. (3) Some men marry with the intention of establishing a domain of influence (e.g. conservation of wealth, a family legacy), but outside of the upper class, this is extremely rare in the West.

Single young women’s expectations are even farther off the mark. Thanks to feminist egalitarianism, Chivalraic norms, and Disney, they have a fairytale-like notion of marriage that is far removed from reality. In addition to the pricey, ego drenched vanity fair of the wedding ceremony, they expect marriage to produce a sense of inner security, and instant access to regular, unearned income. Some women expect marriage to bring instant bliss, but this is becoming rarer as marriage is postfornicated into their late 20s and 30s. Slightly more mature women think marriage will increase their influence and relevancy, often without even realizing how their sexual conduct and femininity fit into this scheme. All the while, they remain ignorant of the larger purposes of marriage and how they might contribute to that. Christianity doesn’t seem to figure into their matriculations at all.

All of these false notions contribute to the impression that “something changed” after marriage.

If it weren’t so sad and so common, it would be comical.

Case Studies

Here’s a sad example. After my sister got married, she came to me immediately after the ceremony and said,

“That’s strange. I don’t feel like I’m married!”

I smacked my forehead and breathed out a long sigh, because I knew right then, that her marriage would fail. Sure enough, after four years, it did.

I also had a wakeup call with reality when I got married, but it was nothing like my sister’s experience. For Blue Pilled me, it was when I soon realized that my wife didn’t share my vision of marriage and was my enemy in many respects, someone I would have to fight against on a daily basis just to keep peace and order in the home. After a couple years of this, I lost hope and became depressed, and after five years, my marriage failed too.

Under Men’s Fantasy of Emotional Intimacy (2021 June 23), Red Pill Apostle and Jack described how things changed for the worse after they got married.

8 Sources of False or Changing Expectations and how these lead to Disappointment

Moreover, it goes for granted that everyone has some expectations for marriage. These expectations for marriage are uniquely different for each person, but are largely based on…

  1. Ego fulfillment (i.e. what is colloquially called “pride”).
  2. The intense and deceptive lure of personal desires.
  3. How marriage was modeled to them while growing up.

Of note, parental divorce tosses a monkey branch into Point (3).

When two people get married, these sets of expectations are put to the test, and specific expectations are bound to lead to deep disappointments on both sides.

In addition to the sudden wakeup to reality, marriage itself introduces a few life changes and identity changes that can be difficult to roll with.

Putting all this together, the resulting upheaval poses severe challenges that can even be fatal to the marriage.

The remainder of this section collates eight reasons why getting married induces an apparent shift in one’s meta-reality, and why this can lead to disappointment and hardship. It should be noted that these eight reasons are complex and interdependent, which explains why it is difficult for newly married couples to figure out what is going wrong.

1. Ignorance of Headship

I will posit that out of all the reasons for marital confusion and disappointment, the top contributor to marital instability is the apathy toward, ignorance of, or rebellion against, Headship.

Σ Frame Axiom 33: Headship is God’s prescription for marriage.
Corollary B to Axiom 33: Any marriage that does not fit either the Headship or Tingly Respect structures is doomed to dysfunction and/or failure.
Corollary C to Axiom 33: The fact that Headship is not taught and modeled makes the transition into married life soooo much more of a shock and a hardship than it has to be.

This is because…

  • Many people never even realize that Headship is how marriage should be done.*
  • People don’t conscientiously choose partners based on the Headship structural model.
  • Most people don’t have any idea how to act according to this model.
  • Most women tend to resist Headship rather strongly (unless they are of the Tingly Respect variety).
  • Corollary D to Axiom 33: The implementation of Headship is confusing and difficult because of the Church’s incongruence between the converged doctrinal position of headship and headship in action (i.e. practiced as a form of moral authority and masculine sexual authority).

* I’m including myself here too. Even though I grew up in the church, I never learned about Headship until I came across the Christian Manosphere, especially Dalrock’s essays on Headship.

Furthermore, implementing Headship is difficult and intimidating because women actively work against Headship, due to the Curse of Eve. As Deep Strength wrote,

“Women have no trouble submitting to their boss at work or their teacher in school or other human authorities because it is normal. But God forbid they submit to the husband to whom they committed their life to, who loves them the most, and the one they vowed to be with before God.”

So if a new husband doesn’t already know that women are like this, and he doesn’t know exactly what he’s doing, the wife will invariably upset the marriage.

2. A Fundamental Change in Self-Concept

Deep Strength’s post, “That all changed after we married…” (2021-6-28) describes a few scenarios in which people might come to think that the other person changed after marriage. These scenarios are briefly summarized here.

  1. Infatuation wears off.
  2. A rebalance of power based on differing levels of attraction.
  3. Normalization of non-submissive and disrespectful behavior on behalf of the wife.
  4. The husband gets lazy about correcting the wife’s disrespecful and sinful behaviors.
  5. Either one or both individuals were posing/faking/hiding their true character.

DS’s post addresses the traits and habits of the individuals in the relationship, and DS’s point is that good behaviors need to be learned/taught, and bad behaviors need to be corrected.

To augment his brief statement, marriage requires a good deal of emotional maturity and for both couples to grow in Christlikeness, especially honesty, humility, and patience. After we marry, we quickly learn the limitations of our fleshly selves and that our naïve concept of “love” is insufficient for taking up the slack. Thus, married couples must utilize the will and rely on the Holy Spirit when the will is insufficient. It takes faith and daily engagement to learn how to demonstrate agape love and Christlike behavior in marriage, and to grow into the respective roles of husband and wife. All this takes time, and for most, it is far from easy.

So when people say “the other person changed”, it may very well be because their concept of the other person changed. The idealized person they thought they were marrying is suddenly revealed to be a faulty human being with eccentric desires and seemingly unreasonable wants and needs, someone who fails much more frequently than what was perceived while courting/dating, and who requires much more love than what they’re giving back. In this sense, marriage is a perpetual “ministry” of daily needs to one’s husband or wife (c.f. 1 Corinthians 7:32-35). Father Spyridon even described this as being responsible for the spouse’s salvation (viz. sanctification)!

3. A Fundamental Change in the Interaction

However, there is a more fundamental reason for why people say, “that all changed after we married”. Whenever people say this, they are subjectively (and usually somewhat ignorantly) talking about a shift in the interaction between the two individuals that came about with marriage.

As it happens, when a young married couple realizes that making marriage work is not a 50%/50% effort, but rather 100%/100%, then many of their false expectations of love and feelings of inspiration disintegrate. IOW, Point 1 in DS’s list occurs. As a result, the couple doesn’t see one another through rose colored lenses any longer, but more along different lines, ranging from an investment of love at best, to a responsibility, or a burden, or a constant annoyance, or a pain in the @ss. At worst, individuals withdraw emotionally and build up walls of psychological self-defense mechanisms, such as apathy, displacement, projection, revenge, stonewalling, and so on. In response, faith in the other person, and in the relationship itself falters and flounders, and a whole new set of problems and difficulties emerge.

Moreover, when two people marry, the way the individuals interact with each other may undergo a seismic shift.

4. A Fundamental Change in Perspective

After marriage, the woman shifts from “man hunting” mode to “nesting” mode. She stops viewing her husband as a game quarrior, and starts to see him as a workhorse that needs harnessed in.

After marriage, the man begins to focus on building and consolidating his domain. He shifts from renegade “wife hunting” mode to Patriarchal “family man” mode. After he becomes familiar with her body and her antics, he stops pedestalizing the wife as a nubile sex goddess, and starts to see her more genuinely. If she doesn’t have her act together, he may start to view her as a contentious annoying burden.

Thus, in some respects, what one values in a mate changes after marriage.

For example…

  • Women who were strongly attracted to funloving Chadwick before marriage, and who managed to secure his commitment, are then faced with constant jealousy and the possibility of his indiscretion.
  • Men who were strongly attracted to Saucy Stacy before marriage, and who managed to lock her down, are then faced with the reality that she’s not actually that great in bed, she can’t cook or clean, she’s a careless mother, and she spends all her spare time on social media.

As you can see, a lot of what one is attracted to is related to one’s maturity.

All this surfaces as Points 1 and 2 in DS’s list.

5. A Fundamental Change in the Power Structure

It gets worse. When the way two people view each other changes, and the way they interact changes, and their perspective on life changes, then the power structure may change as well.

Σ Frame Axiom 7: The natural interaction defines the relationship structure according to which model it fits best — not what we think it is, or hope for it to be, or try to force it to be.

Likewise, true power is determined by a relationship’s ontological construction of unique identities being manifested, and less so in the motivations or behaviors of the participants.

What this means in many cases, is that there is a slow drift away from Headship, which emerges as Points 3 and 4 in DS’s list, and that spells catastrophe for the relationship.

6. A Fundamental Change in the Desires, Needs, and Motivations of the Individuals

After marriage, the wife becomes less concerned about her own financial solvency, material comfort, and security, as these things are provided to her by the man. Thus, her psychological energies are freed up to focus on micromanaging the home and the activities and behaviors of the husband and children. This can be wonderful as long as she is diligent about providing value to the family. But it’s also easy for her to get bogged down in her own little world and become bored and persnickety about her personal preferences. This can lead to point 3 in DS’s list.

After marriage, the husband becomes less concerned about obtaining sexual congress and maintaining the relationship, and he begins to focus more on his career, earning income, and building a home, as he should. As a result, he gives the wife less attention and less moral feedback, and finds it easy to leave certain areas under her supervision. This can lead to point 4 in DS’s list.

7. Cultural Mythos Works Against the Knowledge and Practice of Headship

It gets even worse. The common cultural tripe about gender equality does a d@mning disservice towards one’s psychological preparation and readiness for marriage. Worse, feminism actively dismantles the trust and fidelity necessary to achieve sanctification in marriage, and ruins the MMP for marriage minded Christians.

The importance of God ordained relationship structures (Headship and Tingly Respect), and the inherent power structures are summarily concealed, dismissed, or demonized as “misogynistic” in many cases. Instead, progressive liberalism amplifies, broadcasts, glorifies, and popularizes relationship structures that do not conform to God’s order.

To wit, before marriage, a woman only has her feminine wiles and her püssy power to attract his love. After his commitment in marriage, a woman has many other avenues of control at her disposal, all of which are largely due to the perverse, gynocentric culture in which we now live.

In addition to a long list of control tactics that can destroy his sense of peace and rest, she can deny sex, threaten divorce, hold his wallet and children for ransom, and ruin his reputation, and he has little recourse to address such grievances. These tools of manipulation are easier and ostensibly preferable (to women) over the more spiritually obedient methods of submission, entertaining his honest speech (and being agreeable about it), and tolerating indefinitely whatever she perceives as his weaknesses.

This lopsided power structure has the strong potential to disrupt the natural interaction and the relationship structure, as described in Σ Frame Axiom 7.

Click on the links in this section to read more about how Western progressive cultural mythos destroys marriage and family, and even the church. Also, see Dalrock’s essays on Attacking Headship.

8. Spiritual Infidelity* and Marital Fraud**

* Here, Spiritual Infidelity is loosely defined as any behavior that strays from God’s ideal order of Headship.
** Marital Fraud is when a person is unwilling or unable to fulfill the Covenant prerogatives of marriage. The presence of premeditated deception or willful intentionality of fraud is not necessary for fraud to bring destruction, misery, and heartache, but it will certainly amplify the perdition thereof.

When people get married, and then the natural interaction suddenly changes, it is possible that it probably wasn’t really very natural to begin with. Much has been written here about how premarital sex defiles humility, destroys trust, debases the sexual authority of the husband, and changes the power structure of the relationship. It all spills out in the crucible of marriage.

Marital Fraud is obviously linked to DS’s Point 5, but in fact, it affects all the Points on the list. To further augment DS’s list along this vein,

  1. One or both parties were operating in the flesh, and not in the spirit.
  2. One or both parties were not permitting a natural interaction. (For example, wife was feigning attraction; husband was only after sex.)
  3. The wife was only keeping her worst nature in check just long enough to secure a marital commitment, and then stopped doing so after marriage (which is when it really counts).
  4. The husband was unprepared to deal with the wife’s disobedience because he had never had to deal with it before.
  5. One or both parties were not presenting their authentic selves honestly to the other. (For example, wife lies about her N count; husband relies on Game too much, or not enough.)

Furthermore, fraud is perhaps the worst case scenario of a marriage with the worst chances of success, because the entire situation is built on deception, distrust, and sin.

What DOES NOT Change?

It would be helpful for young people to become well aware of what does NOT change after marriage.

Here are 10 Red Pillish Truths to remember.

  • Women are hypergamous. AWALT!
  • Men are always scoping for fresh, hot, young T and A. This will not change.
  • Women’s SMV will always go downhill after the age of 25 or so, and more so after bearing children. This will not change.
  • Men’s SMV/MMV increases as they age. A man has to be an exceptionally lazy bum for this not to happen.
  • Women chomp at the bit to assume power and control over their husbands. AWALT!
  • Men supplicate their wives and will always prefer to take the easy way out (viz. The Curse of Adam.)
  • The person you were before you married is the same person you will be after marriage. Marriage does not change the core of who either of you are.
  • If you are not in the regular habit of conforming to the Headship structure before marriage, then Headship will not magically materialize after you exchange vows. In fact, it will be more difficult to implement.
  • If your partner doesn’t inspire you to grow closer to God and/or to be a better person before marriage, then this won’t change after marriage.
  • If you don’t genuinely love each other in the spirit before marriage, then you won’t “find God” in your relationship after marriage.

Epilogue: Fleshly Nature and Spiritual Disposition, as well as Core Values and Purposes Become Evident in Marriage

So you can see, working out the business end of being married involves a complicated mish mash of challenges that are difficult to sort out. It usually takes newlywed couples 2-5 years to figure out what “works” for them, and those who can’t, don’t, or won’t, either break up or else endure years of pain and strife in marriage. However, placing an emphasis on Headship and being obedient to Christ in one’s daily walk will quell much of the storm and speed up the adjustment curve.

Headship is the model that we should be striving for, or rather selecting a partner for. Anything less will be fraught with difficulty and heartache.

Both husband and wife, as individuals, have their own sets of emotional luggage, peculiar desires, intransigent values, implacable expectations of norms, and socialization hang ups.

Before marriage, these traits are typically underestimated, and are regarded as superficial, cute, or even endearing. But living together through the daily grind of marriage will magnify even the slightest incongruency between the man’s and the woman’s core values and life purposes. As a result, the blinders come off, and the individuals are forced to face the day to day reality of two people sharing the same house and bed together.

According to the Headship model, the onus is on the woman to align herself with the man. If she drags her feet about this at all, this will create much friction in the marriage, possibly leading to its demise.

It is the continual work of love to accommodate the other’s needs and foibles in a loving manner.

If more attention were given to these matters before marriage, then marriage would not be so shocking and difficult.

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Authenticity, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Convergence, Courtship and Marriage, Desire, Desire, Passion, Discernment, Wisdom, Divorce, Fantasy and Illusion, Female Power, Feminism, Fundamental Frame, Headship and Patriarchy, Introspection, Male Power, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Personal Presentation, Power, Purpose, Relationships, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, Society, Solipsism, Trust, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

29 Responses to What Changes after Marriage?

  1. redpillboomer says:

    — The Christian man has a life purpose, a “mission from God”, his “work” that he must be mindful of and continually be working on.
    — The foremost duty of a Christian wife is to support her husband, bear children, and mind the home (Titus 2:3-5).

    “Both husband and wife, as individuals, have their own sets of emotional luggage, peculiar desires, intransigent values, implacable expectations of norms, and socialization hang ups.”

    In my case, we were fortunate to have me, the Christian man, on my life purpose, aka “mission from God;” and my wife willing and able to do her “Christian duties.” So, a match made in heaven, right? Yes and no. I think God put us together, so we had that going for us, yet there was definitely work to do on both of our parts. What is most interesting to me is we were both blind to it PRIOR to the marriage.

    Blind to exactly what? Our family of origin issues which didn’t make the Jack’s list of “emotional luggage, peculiar desires, intransigent values, implacable expectations of norms, and socialization hang ups” directly, however I think it is implied in the emotional luggage area.

    I came from a family where I battled control issues with my father, e.g., dad wanted to call the shots in my life (influence my decision making — old school Greek patriarchal family), i.e., what work I should pursue, who I should marry, what I should do with my finances, etc., right down to what kind of car I should drive. With God’s help I battled against this and eventually got him to stop it more or less, but it took pretty much all of my twenties into my mid-thirties to “win” this battle. It was a bit of pyrrhic victory in the end because my dad deeply resented me for it, and by extension, my wife since she fully supported me in my endeavors to break away. She really came to have disdain for my dad and his ways, but she was able to treat him respectfully when around him, so it was a help. The point here is that my wife knew nothing of this “battle” I was in when we met/dated/married, but found out about it AFTER we were married. I think she resented that she got dragged into it by proxy through me.

    We both had “mommy issues.” Mine were pretty straightforward because my mom was a closet alcoholic with a caustic tongue. Definitely not a boost to developing my self-esteem. However, with the help of God, I got past my mother’s issues for the most part in my twenties and grew myself into something despite not having a supportive, “nurturing” mother. I did have effects from my mother that lingered for years, however I think this is one of the first areas God went to work on “fixing in me” after I became a Christian so I got past a lot of it fairly early on.

    My wife on the other hand, I’ve written about this in earlier posts, had some real serious “mommy issues” which I really had no clue about. Fortunately for my wife, she had a good dad who raised her well and mitigated the effect of his wife. Unfortunately, he got ill and died of brain cancer shortly after we got married. With no dad around anymore to provide “covering” for his daughter, the mom and her bat sh!t crazy ways and the effects it had on my wife came rocketing to the surface. It took us about 15 years (!) to work through some of the side effects of her relationship with her mother. The point is, I knew nothing about this stuff before marriage; and I was like, “What the he!! is this???” when I had to start dealing with it.

    I’m starting to become a firm believer of including this as part of the vetting process, a couple needs to know about all these family of origin issues, along with whatever “baggage” the individual man or woman has accumulated during their adulthood. Say, from the age of somewhere between 22-27 onward, a person owns their own life; in other words, they stop blaming mommy and daddy for everything “wrong” with their life and start becoming their own person. Note: I believe at some point we come to own our own lives and no one is a “victim” of their family of origin in perpetuity throughout their lifetime unless there was some form of absolutely horrendous abuse that occurred. Somewhere along the line we become responsible for owning our own lives and responsible for getting whatever we need to develop them properly whether it’s therapy, counseling, coaching, support groups, self-improvement work, personal growth and development, etc.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      “Note: I believe at some point we come to own our own lives and no one is a “victim” of their family of origin in perpetuity throughout their lifetime unless there was some form of absolutely horrendous abuse that occurred.”

      I agree with this in general. But the time frame for this to happen varies from person to person. A person who is rebellious as a youth might figure this out a little sooner, and enduring abuse can push one to rebel.

      My cousin (definitely an alpha male) is a good example of this. His mother was emotionally abusive and he ran away from home when he was 17. He lived in his car for almost a year until he got on his feet. Once in a while, he stayed with a couple older, retired relatives who knew the inside story of his situation. By the time he was 30, he owned a 51% share of his own business, and by the time he was 45, he was the full owner of two businesses. Now that he is nearing retirement, he is a multi-millionaire with three very large homes and several cars. Just yesterday he told me that he bought a 2017 Maserati Gran Turismo to park beside his Ferrari in his four car garage.

      He quipped,

      “Joe Walsh says… “My Maserati does 185.” It does! LOL!”

      For me, it took a lot longer. I think part of the reason for this is because my family was very religious, so everything had a veneer of propriety that made it seem like everything was fine. For this reason, I always had the idea that the issues in my family were “better” than those of other families. I was also very anti-rebellious, so I never got into the frame of mind where I was critical of my parents. I admired my cousin for being ambitious and charismatic, but I was also critical and distrustful of him because he was openly rebellious and rather worldly by Christian standards. But then my parents divorced while I was in college, and this totally rocked my world. I had to go back and rethink everything I believed, and this took me years to accomplish. I remember I was in my early 40s when I finally got the sense that I truly owned my own life and had overcome all my family issues. But going through this consumed a lot of my mental and emotional energies, and this set me back in many other ways.

      Interestingly, both me and my cousin still perpetuated some of the same family curses that we had endured in our family of origin (i.e. distrust, divorce, illicit sex, rebellion). As hard as I tried to avoid this, I learned that one can’t just put his life on hold until you get everything sorted out. Making mistakes is part of the process. We have to learn from our mistakes.

      While I hesitate to call this being a victim, there are consequences and repercussions that extend long after one gets over the past, i.e. one’s upbringing, and takes ownership of one’s life. I suppose we could call this collateral damage. So in a sense, we are all “victims” of being born into a fallen world, and of our own sinful nature, and that of others too. But it is not very helpful to think of ourselves in this way.

      I’ve heard it said that the first half of your life is what you were given, or born into. The second half is what you make of it, or what you deserve.

      Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Jack – There is certainly something to generational sin, i.e. Deuteronomy 5:9 or Numbers 14:18. I can see how learned behavior is a hard habit to break. If it were not for Mrs. Apostle’s unilaterally enforced celibacy and contentious ways I’d probably have been a “happy wife, happy life” man just like my dad. It took unbearable stress for me to begin to question the lessons I’d been brought up with (Proverbs 22:6 is the real deal y’all so keep that in mind with your kids), and it has taken considerable time to finally start to really feel comfortable living life in the truth. Part of the time was because I let things go too far for too long. My guess is that the process would not have been so long (18-24 months) if the bad marriage period had not been for 17 years.

        Liked by 1 person

      • redpilllboomer says:

        “I’ve heard it said that the first half of your life is what you were given, or born into. The second half is what you make of it, or what you deserve.”

        I’ll go along with this line of reasoning Jack. To refine what I said a bit, I don’t particularly care for someone, over 35 let’s say, who is still focused on what “mommy and daddy” did to them. Yes, they very well may, and probably are, still working through some of the fallout from their youth, but they need to be OWNING it; in other words, doing the work, whatever that looks like for the individual, to get it worked out so that the second half of their lives are mostly free of it. Free in the sense that they’re able to start creating their life moving forward no matter what mom and dad did or did not do when they were growing up.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ RPB,

        “I don’t particularly care for someone, over 35 let’s say, who is still focused on what “mommy and daddy” did to them.”

        You know what’s just as bad? A person who doesn’t realize that they’re stuck in destructive behavior patterns created by their parents.

        You know what’s even worse? People who inflict those destructive behaviors on others who had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of those behaviors, especially children.

        People who don’t lay the blame where it belongs are a lot more likely to perpetuate the damage.

        Like

  2. Elspeth says:

    “I believe at some point we come to own our on lives and no one is a “victim” of their family of origin in perpetuity throughout their lifetime unless there was some form of absolutely horrendous abuse that occurred. Somewhere along the line we become responsible for owning our own lives and responsible for getting whatever we need to develop them properly…”

    I just listened as my husband shared something nearly verbatim with a friend of his over the phone in the past month. And this wasn’t a young man, aged 22-27. It was a middle aged guy same as him. I’m not fully privy to what initiated it, but I heard him say this; that at some point we can no longer claim that we inherited a certain pattern of behavior from our parents.

    It needs to be said more.

    Liked by 1 person

    • redpillboomer says:

      Agree! And I’d add one thing for all the adult “victims” out there, give your parents credit for the GOOD stuff they did for you during your growing up years! Even though I mentioned my parents in my post above, and yes they were all of that, however they did a lot of good as parents as well. If I wanted to play the lifetime victim, I’d have to ignore all of it and act like ONLY the negative stuff happened. Not the truth, it would be a skewed representation of them and their parenting.

      Another thing, in an educational program I’ve been part of for the last ten years, one thing the leader will do with a full room of 150-200 people or so, is have all the 18-24 year olds stand up. All of us look intently at them and the thing that jumps out is how YOUNG they look, just “adult children” every last one of them. The leader then tells all of us, this was the age of many of your parents when they had you (I guess nowadays it would be the 25-35 year olds). Everyone gets the message. How can you BLAME them for how your life turned out, and keep blaming them for your ENTIRE life. You see everyone in the room putting away their “victim cards,” figuratively speaking, because they see the absurdity of it all; and I’ll bet feel a bit ashamed of themselves for having indulged in “It’s all mommy and daddy’s fault for the way I am. I’m not responsible for any of it.” for as long as they have, decades for some of the people in the room.

      Like

      • Joe2 says:

        “How can you BLAME them for how your life turned out, and keep blaming them for your ENTIRE life?”

        To some extent depending on the circumstances of your upbringing, you can blame your parents. You mentioned an educational program you’ve been part of that struck a chord with me because education is a good example.

        I know of situations where parents groom their children (mostly with boys) to follow a certain course of education regardless of the child’s desires. Here are some examples.

        The father worked in the aircraft factory and the grandfather worked in the same factory. The father assumes that his son will work in the factory and shapes his son’s upbringing for that end. The son is miserable working in the factory and wants to leave, but his education is limited which makes it just about impossible to start over in a more suitable occupation.

        The father, a prominent lawyer, groomed his son to take over his law practice when he retired. The son enjoyed working on cars and always wanted a repair shop, but the father dismissed his son’s desires and had him pursue a college education and a law degree. The son hated law, dropped out and began working on cars. Money that was spent on law school (and four years of college) could have went towards a repair shop, but it didn’t and the son missed out on his dreams.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        I have to disagree with the “don’t blame your parents” sentiment.

        Changing long-established behavior is always tough, but it’s a lot easier if you recognize where it comes from. For example, it’s common for single moms to turn their sons into replacement husbands. That causes boys all kinds of damage that can last a lifetime, and perpetuates itself onto future generations.

        Suppose a boy whose mom turned him into a son-husband grows up, and has all kinds of trouble with women because of how his mother treated him.

        It’s her fault that he turned out that way, but because he’s an adult, it’s his responsibility to accurately identify the problem, and solve it. He’ll probably need a lot of help from other men (and I do mean men, women can’t help solve this problem), but it’s his responsibility to seek out that help.

        If he fails to lay the blame where it belongs — with his mom — and makes excuses for her like, “she did her best”, or other such nonsense, he gives himself permission to make excuses for himself.

        If, on the other hand, he takes the attitude of “she had no excuse, and neither do I”, and “she failed to do what was necessary, but I won’t”, then he has a far better shot at changing his thinking, his behavior, his life, and his posterity.

        Like

    • elspeth says:

      I’ll admit I have a blind spot, as I know what kind of husband my FIL was, and I watched as my own husband went out of his way NOT to be like that. He has inherited a few things, but infidelity has never been one.

      I suppose his siblings prove Oscar’s and Jack’s point about following the path you know, but I don’t like the idea of removing agency based on how we were raised. Feels like excuses.

      I am and have always been tempted to chalk it up to SAM being an extraordinary man (maybe he is or maybe it was the Lord or maybe a little of both), but to mark him as extraordinary would be to imply that no one else can do it. I can’t do that.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        Elspeth,

        “…to mark him as extraordinary would be to imply that no one else can do it. I can’t do that.”

        What makes a man extraordinary is not whether he can do it, but whether he actually does it.

        Like

      • elspeth says:

        Well, I’ll stick to what I kinda thought already… my man IS extraordinary!

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Elspeth,

        “I don’t like the idea of removing agency based on how we were raised. Feels like excuses.”

        It’s not about removing agency from the person who was hurt as a child. Like I said, once you’re an adult, it’s your responsibility to identify the problem and fix it.

        The real problem is that people remove agency from their parents by making excuses like, “they did the best they could”, or “they didn’t know any better”. When people remove agency from their parents, and make excuses for them, they give themselves permission to remove agency from themselves, and make excuses for themselves.

        Why would anyone give agency to themselves, and take responsibility for their own actions, and not expect that of their parents? What sense does that make?

        Blame and responsibility need to be placed where they rightly belong.

        Like

  3. feeriker says:

    “Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed.” ~ Albert Einstein

    Like

  4. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    “Women have no trouble submitting to their boss at work or their teacher in school or other human authorities because it is normal.”

    I think “normal” is an incorrect diagnosis. It’s because work and school are spaces that do not belong to her, and naturally she has no right of input. Home, at best belongs to both of you, and at worst belongs to her, so she will feel the need to control, or at least put her two cents in as forcefully as she can get away with. She will not see the house as her husband’s domain, where she is allowed to live as long as she tends to her duties. Hence, no respect for headship. Perhaps this is why women were not allowed to own property: she can’t control it if she doesn’t have a claim on it.

    Liked by 2 people

    • feeriker says:

      “Perhaps this is why women were not allowed to own property: she can’t control it if she doesn’t have a claim on it.”

      That’s a very interesting point, one that merits additional exploration. ☆

      Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      At least part of women’s desire to control her husband vs. her ready submission at the office has to do with accepting defined hierarchy roles. There is no question of who is in charge at the office, and if there’s contentiousness over this point, the dispute has a decent probably that it will end in termination, and she knows that is the boss’ right.

      At home, there is a struggle for control because she does not see the husband’s authority as what God has given to him. When there is a question of authority then it is hers. A husband who does not unequivocally set that he is the authority, that it is his family and that she is one who God gave him to be his suitable help, is in for a world of trouble. How much work it takes for her to understand God’s order for the family is dependent on his constitution as a man and her belief in God and the truth of His word. Choose your woman carefully and vet like crazy for all characteristics you’ll need in a wife to build your life and family.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. locustsplease says:

    My mother has complained about how her parents treated her my whole life. She’s 65 years old, her kids are 40+ years old, and she’s been a grandmother for 11 years. And she was just as abusive to us if not more. She abuses her husband worse. He probably prays for death.

    My dad doesnt even talk about his dad. In fact, nobody ever told me about him. He died when my dad was 20. I’m assuming he was extremely abusive. What other reason could there be?

    I’m like the adult — dealing with tantrums, lack of accountability, gas lighting… as they try to break down my happiness and I wont let them.

    Liked by 1 person

    • feeriker says:

      “I’m like the adult — dealing with tantrums, lack of accountability, gas lighting… as they try to break down my happiness and I wont let them.”

      Sorry to hear that, brother. FWIW, and if it makes you feel any better, I can say, based on anecdotal, that there isn’t a family in the Western world that doesn’t suffer complete dysfunction in at least a part of it. My mother and father had the ideal Christian marriage, yet my father’s two siblings were complete train wrecks whose marriages and behavior mirrored what you describe in your own experience. One cannot ever completely escape it.

      Like

  6. info says:

    And the other thing is that the spouses may not actually be saved. Having believed in Jesus Christ as God and Lord and everything else to do with messiahship. Having repented like how Zaccheus “set things right” not just “feeling sorry” which is “called regret”:

    Luke 19:8
    But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, half of my possessions I give to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will repay it fourfold.”

    Being Baptised in water if you can, since God can make use of such an event with a Spiritual effect. And praying for the Holy Spirit from his Father. As Jesus did in the Gospel of Luke:

    Luke 3:21-22
    “21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

    And if necessary, do so persistently until it actually comes in power:

    Like

  7. cameron232 says:

    What changes after marriage? From what I can tell from watching marriages for nearly half a century, women turn into fat, gluttonous sweathogs. No reason to keep themselves up for their man unless maybe they seriously fear his defection to another woman.

    Like

  8. cameron232 says:

    More women than men like aggression in p0rn by a large margin, including hard and non-consensual aggression.

    Phys.Org: Women more likely to enjoy aggression in porn: study (2022-2-11)

    Liked by 1 person

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