Why Do Men Need Visions and Dreams?

Dr. Myles Munroe delivers a powerful ‘man up’ message with a tidal wave of OMG realizations about the purpose of men and the nature of women.

Readership: All

Today, we’ll look at a powerful sermon delivered by Dr. Myles Munroe, who was a Bahamian evangelist and ordained minister, author, speaker, and public leadership consultant, and who founded and led the Bahamas Faith Ministries International.

His talk is directed specifically at men, directing them on to the vision inspired path of discovering their God-ordained purpose for living. Munroe gives men a powerful ‘man-up’ message that is as strong as it is comforting. I would go so far as to say that his stance sets the stage for a unique form of ‘Christian Game’. Men would do well to take his viewpoints on male-female relationships into serious consideration.

You can mock and criticize his loose interpretations of scripture all you like. But Munroe’s Frame is ‘fundamentally’ true to both the Holy Spirit and the Red Pill perspective, and impeccably stolid at that. Furthermore, the words out of his mouth have put the fear of the Lord into millions around the world, including yours truly.

Munroe died in a freak plane crash in 2014, just two months after he spoke out publicly against g@y rights, saying that “people have ‘hijacked’ and ‘raped’ the civil rights movement with efforts to fight for the rights of those in the LGBT community”. He also said that the support of QTBGL persons in the Bahamas “does not represent the majority of the convictions of the Bahamian people”. Was his death just an unfortunate accident, or was he martyred by the ‘powers-that-be’?

Independent: Myles Munroe: Preacher who outraged many with his views on women and gays (November 11, 2014)

This sermon is rather long at 80 minutes, but I guarantee that if you take the time to watch it, you’ll have quite a few mind-blowing epiphanies of the ‘A-Ha!’, and ‘OMG!’ quality, concerning the nature of men and women, and their interaction.

Power Quotes

“Man was not created to dominate other men, but to dominate the earth.”

“Democracies do not colonize. Only Kingdoms colonize!”

“God intended for the earth to be a colony of His Kingdom. God intended the male man to be the colonizers.”

“Men are not on top. They are not the ‘heads’. Men are on the bottom! They are the foundation!

“Men were created before women. Men are first. Men have knowledge that women don’t have. But it’s no fun being first. Being first means you are responsible for everything that comes after!”

“The discovery of your purpose is about your dominion.”

“Vision is a preview of your purpose.”

“God stops growth where there is no management, or bad management.”

“I feel like preaching… almost!

“God gave man work, before he gave man woman. Work comes first. If you put woman first, you will have trouble!”

“There were six commandments that God gave to Adam in the garden of Eden.” (Genesis 1-2)

  1. Eden – to live in communion with God
  2. Work – to become what God made you to be.
  3. Care – to cultivate, and bring forth fruit.
  4. Guard – to protect, and to create a safe Kingdom for others to enjoy.
  5. Command – to teach, mold, and guide others in the ways of holy living.
  6. Observe – to recognize God’s sovereignty, keep His commandments, and walk in His ways.

“Your job is what you do for your employer, but your work is what God made you to do. You may lose your job, but you can never lose your work. Your employer might say, ‘You’re fired from your job!’ But what employer can say, ‘You’re fired from being you’?”

“A man’s work is the expression of his purpose. A man with no woman has hope. But a man with no work will lose his mind.”

“When a man is doing His work, then the woman will follow after the man. That’s how it’s got to be. Amen? When the man is not about his work, the woman feels lost and insecure.”

“Woman is an incubator. Whatever you give her, she takes it, adds life and value, and gives it back to you. If you give her sperm, she gives you a baby. If you give her groceries, she gives you a meal. If you give her a word, she gives you a sentence. If you give her frustration, she gives you hell!”

“There is no entrance on a male man. <turns his back to the audience> This is an exit, not an entrance!”

Note: Video link updated on 2020 January 28.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Choosing A Profession, Confidence, Discipline, Freedom, Personal Liberty, Holding Frame, Influence, International, Leadership, Male Power, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Success, Organization and Structure, Purpose, Relationships, Satire, Self-Concept, The Power of God and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

52 Responses to Why Do Men Need Visions and Dreams?

  1. JT Anderson says:

    This video is great! Thanks for sharing. Perfect timing as this is a topic I have been investigating lately.

    Liked by 2 people

    • JT Anderson says:

      The only thing that’s bothering me is I can’t figure out where he got his definition of “work” from. It seems intuitive enough but I can’t find the Hebrew word he referenced in the text. Unless he’s referencing Greek?

      Like

      • Wayne says:

        I am not sure if he got the meaning of the word ‘work’ from a Hebrew definition or not. I believe he is simply just redefining the concept of work in a more positive light, and adapting it to a man’s spiritual purpose. His definition of work is what a man does according to God’s will for his life, which is something man does rather naturally, once the sinful nature is stripped away. Alternately, maybe his understanding of ‘work’ is more accurate than what most people believe. (I have found that the Bible contains a lot of assumptions that are not so clearly iterated. Only a spiritually enlightened person can ‘read between the lines’ and discern those truths at once.) His definition blends well with scripture, because Christ is also described as ‘doing the work of His Father’. I like this redefinition, because it makes a distinction between physical labor for an employer, ‘works of the flesh’, and ‘works of the spirit’. It also removes the negative stigma that a lot of people have about working, and replaces it with a sense of confidence, hope and purpose.

        Liked by 1 person

      • JT Anderson says:

        At 29:26, his slide says WORK – “eregon”

        He must be referencing the Greek Septuagint because I found the word: http://biblehub.com/greek/2041.htm

        The dictionary definition aligns with his interpretation. It’s quite eye-opening to reconsider all the New Testament passages where “work” is used with that clarified definition in mind.

        Liked by 2 people

      • JT Anderson says:

        I think this is a primary source of confusion in the church today. When we hear about “do good deeds” or “do not do the deeds of the flesh” we think of it in terms of present imperfections… as if we’re constantly wavering back and forth between God’s “naughty” and “nice” list. In reality, God already has the end in mind and he wants us to “become” who we were meant to be. God cares about the direction, not the daily imperfections.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. Fnu Mnu Lnu says:

    Men need a purpose, whether it be work, or personally related. Without it, we wither…

    Liked by 3 people

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  8. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    WAYNE/JACK
    I remember him on SKYANGEL around ’05 or so!
    I thought he was just a typical preacher until I stumbled onto this post of yours!
    Why does people think purpose means going to a 9 to 5 job?
    I never have!

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Jack says:

    Feeriker,
    I think you posted this comment under the wrong post. Please copy and paste this comment under the current discussion.

    Like

  10. Lastmod says:

    Work

    Most people don’t have a choice. Work or starve. No work? No Provision??? You’re lazy, not ready to be a ‘provider’. You do work? Well… if your “work” isn’t a calling or one that God guided or led, then “it’s wrong”

    So you have a STEM job for work… God told you “to be an engineer” or a “math teacher”.

    I don’t think so, or is it that at a very young age, “you just knew” that you had the skills or intellect to be a doctor, surgeon or lawyer or airline pilot, and anything else that you did for work was “not of His will”?

    This is where I get confused. Jesus was training or was trained to be a carpenter. This happened because his father was one. Same with the many of the disciples… they were fisherman because their fathers were… So was it of man, or god that they had this “work”? And if of god… in todays world, this is bad work because you cannot provide for a wife and family on one income, a good home, a vacation, a new iPhone, or whatever else is demanded for a “modern-good-christian-marriage”.

    And what of work? If a man has a lower level job (and its the best he can do for his ability / potentials), and loves Jesus… serves… he is denied a wife because “He isn’t a real man and doesn’t have good work to provide for a family”?

    Like I said, most don’t have a choice. Work or starve… Elite men and people like this Dr. preaching have the ‘luxury’ to debate, hem and haw about what is good work, or work inspired by vision, or if it is of god or not.

    Jesus was training to be a carpenter. Never once did he talk about his potential earning, his union benefits, how much he could afford, and what neighborhood of Jerusalem he was going to live in per his income.

    Aside from churchianity, the church today puts so much emphasis on “What do you have?” “How much?”, and provision, and hence why we have a glaring problem as well today.

    We have rich church and poor church, and the gap between them is getting wider.

    At the Salvation Army, it’s usually very poor church. A cinder block building, faded seats, or mismatched benches. A mish mash of losers, lost, and messed up people filling the seats.

    Across town on the west or north side… we have a suburban church… the attractive, people of “good” provision and who have good “work” and thus god has blessed them with nice things.

    We have churches divided by racial lines too in this county… the predominantly black church, or the inner city Catholic church that is filled with brown people, and sermons in Spanish. In California orthodoxy you kind-of-sort-of have to be Slavic or Greek to be a part of this place. I am half Slavic, but I have a Polish last name, which means I have to be Catholic or else I am betraying my people… or some such nonsense.

    I know people feel comfortable with their own. I will admit, I did feel much more welcome when I first came to the Salvation Army than I did at the Northpoint Christian (cause I was dirt poor… and well-to-do Christians look at poor folks as “They just brought it upon themselves… If they just WORKED harder…”

    The term work is loaded, and frankly should not even be an issue in church, or for men.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      “Most people don’t have a choice. Work or starve.”

      There are plenty of people on welfare, neither working, nor starving in the USA. Is that moral? No. But it’s a choice many make.

      2 Thessalonians 3:10 “For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.”

      “No work? No Provision??? You’re lazy, not ready to be a ‘provider’.”

      Are you saying men shouldn’t provide for their families?

      1 Timothy 5:8 “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

      “You do work? Well… if your “work” isn’t a calling or was God guided or led, then “its wrong”.

      Says who?

      1 Thessalonians 4:10 “…and indeed you do so toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, that you increase more and more; 11 that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you, 12 that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing.

      “So you have a STEM job for work…..God told you “to be an engineer” or a “math teacher”
      I don’t think so, or is it that at a very young age, “you just knew” that you had the skills or intellect to be a doctor, surgeon or lawyer or airline pilot, and anything else that you did for work was “not of his will”?”

      Says who? I buy beef from a guy who quit his job as an engineer to raise cattle. What’s wrong with that? Who says there’s anything wrong with that?

      “This is where I get confused. Jesus was training or was trained to be a carpenter. This happened because his father was one. Same with the many of the disciples… Tthey were fisherman because their fathers were… So was it of man, or god that they had this “work”, and if of god…”

      Who chose Joseph to be Jesus’ adopted father? Obviously, God did.

      “…in todays world, this is bad work because you cannot provide for a wife and family on one income, a good home, a vacation, a new iPhone, or whatever else is demanded for a “modern-good-Christian-marriage”

      Says who? My wife and I have 5-year-old, cheap Samsung phones, and we almost never go on vacation, because we can’t afford it, because we have 10 kids. Who says you need those things?

      “And what of work? If a man has a lower level job (and its the best he can do for his ability / potentials), and loves Jesus… serves… he is denied a wife because “he isn’t a real man and doesn’t have good work to provide for a family?”

      Who denies him a wife? And, what exactly is a “lower level job”? Who’s saying he’s not “a real man”?

      “Like I said, most don’t have a choice. Work or starve… Elite men and people like this Dr. preaching have the ‘luxury’ to debate, hem and haw about what is good work, or work inspired by vision, or if it is of god or not.”

      So? What did St. Paul write? “Lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you.” (1 Thes. 4:11)

      “Jesus was training to be a carpenter. Never once did he talk about his potential earning, his union benefits, how much he could afford, and what neighborhood of Jerusalem he was going to live in per his income.”

      Jesus never intended to raise, or support a family. His mission was to die for our sins, not raise a family.

      “We have churches divided by racial lines too in this county… The predominantly black church, or the inner city Catholic church that is filled with brown people, and sermons in Spanish.”

      So? I grew up attending Spanish-speaking churches. What’s wrong with people of similar ethnicity getting together to worship God in their native language?

      “I am half Slavic… but I have a Polish last name… which means I have to be Catholic or else I am betraying my people… or some such nonsense.”

      Says who? I don’t attend Spanish-speaking churches anymore, and nobody cares. If it’s “some such nonsense”, then why do you care?

      “I know people feel comfortable with their own.”

      Then, why are you complaining about it?

      “I will admit, I did feel much more welcome when I first came to the Salvation Army than I did at the Northpoint Christian (cause I was dirt poor, and well-to-do Christians look at poor folks as “They just brought it upon themselves… If they just WORKED harder…”

      I grew up poor. No Christian ever looked down on me, or my family for being poor, or immigrants, or of a different race.

      “The term work is loaded, and frankly should not even be an issue in church, or for men.”

      Why not? There are 721 verses in the Bible with the word “work” in them, and many more that refer to the concept without necessarily using the word itself.

      Obviously, work is very important to God, otherwise He wouldn’t talk about it so much in His word. If it’s that important to God, then it should also be important to us.

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Says who? Says this ‘sphere. Oh, we’re all gonna start quoting the bible now???????

        Did you watch the video? This “only man in the room” guy will talk about “work” for the Lord, but you live that… he’ll put his nose up at you. “Oh he thinks he is better than the rest of us” (meaning people like himself).

        Again, you selectively forgot I used the word “most”.

        Most people don’t have a choice. Work or starve. Then you delve into “what I really meant…”, like the oracle that you are.

        Like this sphere, and in church… it depends on WHO is saying or purporting what. Everyone else is an idiot, a fool, dumb, should-read-their-bible more.

        Even “Saint Dalrock” told me years ago that to get a wife I was going to need “better provision”. The whole place applauded over his “genius” and helpful reply.

        And now… it doesn’t matter.

        Make up your freaking minds! You Christians have standards for some, and give a pass for the same thing to others, “God is working” type of things.

        This is why speaking to you is useless.

        btw… Who told you to have ten kids?

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        No Christian looked down at you because you were poor

        You comprehended this age two I am sure

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “Says who? Says this ‘sphere.”

        People say things. “This ‘sphere” is not a person. What specific person said the things you claimed they said? And why should it matter what they said?

        “Oh, we’re all gonna start quoting the bible now???????”

        Who’s “we all”? I’ve always quoted the Bible. I’m not going to stop now.

        “Did you watch the video? This “only man in the room” guy will talk about “work” for the Lord, but you live that… he’ll put his nose up at you. “Oh he thinks he is better than the rest of us” (meaning people like himself).”

        So? How does that affect you?

        “Again, you selectively forgot I used the word “most”.

        I quoted you exactly. I know you used the word “most”. So what? It’s still false.

        “Most people don’t have a choice. Work or starve.”

        That’s false. Most people have the option to go on welfare, and many exercise that option. They shouldn’t have that option, but it’s there.

        “Then you delve into “what I really meant”, like the oracle that you are.”

        That’s a lie, Jason. I didn’t ‘delve into “what I really meant”. I asked if you think a man should provide for his family or not. A question you still haven’t answered. So, do you think a man should provide for his family, or not?

        “Like this sphere, and in church… it depends on WHO is saying or purporting what. Everyone else is an idiot, a fool, dumb, should-read-their-bible more.”

        Again, says who? What specific person said that specifically?

        “Even “Saint Dalrock” told me years ago that to get a wife I was going to need “better provision”. The whole place applauded over his “genius” and helpful reply.”

        “Better provision” that what?

        “And now… it doesn’t matter.”

        If it doesn’t matter, then why are you still complaining about it?

        “Make up your freaking minds!”

        About what?

        “You Christians have standards for some, and give a pass for the same thing to others, “God is working” type of things.”

        Show me one time I’ve done that.

        “This is why speaking to you is useless.”

        Then, why are you doing it?

        “btw… Who told you to have ten kids?”

        Well, that would require me to quote the Bible again. So, here we go.

        James 1:27 “Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

        Genesis 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

        Happy now? See how I answered your question? Now, please answer mine.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “No Christian looked down at you because you were poor

        You comprehended this age two I am sure.”

        My family wasn’t poor when I was two. That happened later.

        But, it’s true. No Christian ever looked down on my family for being poor, or immigrants, or of a different race.

        Like

  11. Lastmod says:

    I don’t see “ten children” listed in that quote from the bible…..

    So if a man is not married… for whatever reason, and doesn’t have children… he is breaking god’s statement made in Genesis…. Wait my bad….. He doesn’t even say marriage.

    I don’t know what world you live in. I got more judgment cast upon me by people inside church than I ever have outside of it. So, I left. My life improved drastically. Wasted almost twelve years of being told by people better than me / smarter than me / better provision than me / better bible knowledge than me / better intellect than me / better looking than me / more popular than me that it was all gods plan and timing, and I had to just accept where I was, and deal with it…

    …and then at the same time, be told what I needed to do, or else I must like being where I am.

    I cut this out — these people out of my life… and I improved. The house of god is high school 2.0, and frankly I am not alone in feeling this way. Far from alone.

    I don’t have a problem per se with Jesus, but I do have a problem with most Christians. In a typical church, three… five, ten people have the blessing, all the gifts, the know-how to comprehend the things of god. The rest have to sit and be reminded how dumb they are… how much they need god…. how if they don’t use their “gifts” (meaning tithing) it’s a sin, and any skill, ambition or drive will be crushed and you will be made to look like a fool for stepping up. Yet, you all speak about love… love of what?

    Love of brother? Most couldn’t give an iota about their brother or sister.

    Also, then all are told its all hopeless for them.

    If I really wanted that, I could have stayed a drunk. My take on the Bible is that God loves some, and hates just about everyone else. I know that is not true, but the church and the elite inside make it out that way.

    You and I have nothing in common, and us trying to meet is met by your terrible attitude towards me, and me being hairsplit and guilty for even being alive.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      “I don’t see “ten children” listed in that quote from the bible…..”

      So? God gives us commandments, but He doesn’t necessarily tell us how to carry them out. He leaves the how up to us, mostly. I chose to obey those commandments by getting married, adopting five kids, and making five more. Is there something wrong with that?

      “So if a man is not married… for whatever reason, and doesn’t have children… he is breaking god’s statement made in Genesis…. Wait my bad….. He doesn’t even say marriage.”

      No. Otherwise St. Paul would’ve been in sin. This isn’t new territory, and you know that.

      “I don’t know what world you live in.”

      Sure you do. Planet Earth. North America. USA. Missouri. Not getting any more specific than that.

      “I got more judgment cast upon me by people inside church than I ever have outside of it. So, I left. My life improved drastically.”

      Great. I’m very happy for you. By the way, aren’t you making more money now then you used to? Is that part of how your “life improved drastically”? If so, then how was that anything other than good advice?

      “…and then at the same time be told what I needed to do, or else I must like being where I am.”

      I never told you to do any of that. I never told you to do anything. So, why are you complaining to me about it?

      “I cut this out, these people out of my life… and I improved.”

      Great! Have fun with that!

      “I don’t have a problem per se with Jesus, but I do have a problem with most Christians. In a typical church, three… five, ten people have the blessing, all the gifts, the know-how to comprehend the things of god. The rest have to sit and be reminded how dumb they are… how much they need god…. how if they don’t use their “gifts” (meaning tithing) it’s a sin, and any skill, ambition, or drive will be crushed, and you will be made to look like a fool for stepping up. Yet, you all speak about love… love of what?

      Love of brother? Most couldn’t give an iota about their brother or sister.”

      Uh…. You’re the one who claims to have a “seething hatred” for your “fellow man”, remember? You also claimed to have that “seething hatred” since high school. Which means that, the entire time you were in church, by your own words, you were “seething” with “hatred” for your “fellow man”. Kind of sounds like projection.

      By the way; have you ever considered that your “seething hatred” for your “fellow man” might be one reason why you have so much trouble with other men?

      “You and I have nothing in common.”

      Last I checked we’re both human and male. That’s two things.

      “…and us trying to meet is met by your terrible attitude towards me…”

      I’m not the one who has a “seething hatred”,/i> for his “fellow man”, Jason. That’s you, by your own admission. It’s also a pretty “terrible attitude towards” your “fellow man”.

      “…and me being hairsplit and guilty for even being alive.”

      Now, who’s the “oracle”? I never said anything about anyone (much less you) being “guilty for even being alive”. Your mind reading hasn’t improved.

      And you still haven’t answered my question. Do you think a man should support his family, or not?

      Like

  12. Lastmod says:

    I mentioned that I did have that “seething hatred”. Probably not so much now… Towards you? Yeah… probably. You’re just a pompous @ss who just hated me since the moment I arrived here ten years ago. I never did anything to you… Oh wait, I did! I disagreed with you, and I was not like you, Scott, Cane, and others… So that made me a target for you. You love doing this to people you perceive as “weaker” than you, and others let it go. You get like this because I actually call out your BS. Lover of god, but hater of men who do not think, look, or act like you, or agree with you. I get it. Leave me alone.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      So…. do you think men should support their families, or not?

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        “So…. do you think men should support their families, or not?”

        Of course, and you know that I believe that.

        So when a man cannot… say he has an accident and gets maimed, or he is sent to live as a loser in a third world country for national interests like oil, protecting the nation’s vaginas, or the lumber mill closes in Ticonderoga, NY because of environmentalism, or the guy who is running that place doesn’t like him, and he is 46 and that’s all he has done his whole life… Now he has only the ability to work at 7-11 or some other retail / service job because there is nothing else around…

        There are countless examples…

        Is this man a failure? Should he just “learn to code”? Should he move somewhere else where there are great jobs in manufacturing? Should he just get a vision, study really hard, and then he’ll become an investment banker in a few weeks?

        People like this Dr. in the video would blame him for not being Tiger Woods, or finding his vision at 2 and 1/2 years old. None of you, when courting your wife, sat her down and explained your mission and vision statement on the first date… “By the time I am 22, I will be here, doing this or that, and by thirty I will be working here… Are you on board with me? Want to help me?”

        This Dr. had the luxury of having a vision or mission in life at the right place, time and age. Plenty of men have “big plans” for their lives and most of them don’t pan out. The vision failed, and he has to adjust… So did he lie to his wife about his plan? Men supposedly have “gifts” and I don’t believe that. Men have talents in something, or perhaps an aptitude, or an area of expertise…

        That doesn’t make him a leader, an expert on everything… Even Air Jordan once said in 1992, “I’ve missed more lay-ups than I have made.” It took hard work. Talent wasn’t going to do it.

        I get annoyed when I hear, “You have amazing gifts!”, and I reply, “Well, tell me what they are?”

        Then I receive a flippant “Only you can find that out.” Well, then don’t say it. Besides. In the church, a few have all the gifts, a couple have one or two, and the rest have to “work and pray, and wait until god reveals them to you”, and then with slight of hand, “I knew my gifts when I was young… You wasted too much time!”

        It’s a power thing, and men love it. Lording it over others who they perceive they can subdue, insult, and put down.

        When a man cannot provide, in the Christian world, it’s “his fault”, and if you are important in the church, everyone has to “rally around and help him… He won’t be able to get a latte on Sunday, he won’t be able to watch ESPN, he might lose his house!”

        But to the unwashed, beat, losers it is said, “You brought it upon yourself. You should have saved more. You should have told your wife to get a job. You should have not bought the house until you could pay for it 100%!”

        Of course a man should provide… The problem is men like you won’t let them.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “Of course, and you know that I believe that.”

        Thanks for answering the question. And, no, I didn’t know that. That’s why I asked. You know why I didn’t know that? Because I’m not an “oracle”, or a mind reader.

        “Is this man a failure?”

        No.

        “Should he just “learn to code”?”

        I don’t know. Can he? Does he want to? I wouldn’t.

        “Should he move somewhere else where there are great jobs in manufacturing?”

        I did when I lost my job in the oil field. That may not be the answer for another man, though.

        “Should he just get a vision, study real hard, and then he’ll become an investment banker in a few weeks?”

        I don’t know. Is it possible to “become and investment banker in a few weeks”?

        “None of you when courting your wife sat her down and explained your mission, and vision statement on the first date… “By the time I am 22 I will be here, doing this or that, and by thirty I will be working here… Are you on board with me? Want to help me?”

        I told my wife on our first date that I was going to be an Army officer, and what that would entail for her. I was 27, though, not 22. I was kind of a late bloomer. However, as I’ve explained here before, I’d already had experience with girls deciding that the Army wife life wasn’t for them, so I started explaining that on the first date.

        “Plenty of men have “big plans” for their lives and most of them don’t pan out.”

        Yeah. I know. I’m one of them. I wanted to be a pilot. My eyes went bad. I wear coke-bottle glasses. So, I adapted.

        I got a masters degree in geological engineering, because I wanted to work in the oil field after the Army. I worked there one year, and got laid off. So, I adapted.

        It happens to most men. Heck, you know that a bunch of men on this forum have been divorced. Do you think they planned that? Of course not! They had to adapt.

        “Men supposedly have “gifts” and I don’t believe that. Men have talents in something, or perhaps an aptitude, or an area of expertise…”

        “Talents” and “aptitude” are synonyms for “gifts”. Same thing.

        “That doesn’t make him a leader, an expert on everything… Even Air Jordan once said in 1992, “I’ve missed more lay-ups than I have made.” It took hard work. Talent wasn’t going to do it.”

        No, but talent certainly helps.

        “I get annoyed when I hear “You have amazing gifts!” and I reply, “Well, tell me what they are?”

        Then I get a flippant “Only you can find that out.” Well, then don’t say it.”

        I – and others here – have told you what some of them are, and you refuse to believe us. You were blessed with an above-average I.Q. You were blessed with above-average height. You were blessed with above-average athleticism. That’s three right there.

        “Besides. In the church, a few have all the gifts, a couple have one or two, and the rest have to “work and pray, and wait until god reveals them to you”, and then with slight of hand, “I knew my gifts when I was young… You wasted too much time!”

        Again, says who?

        “When a man cannot provide, in the Christian world, its “his fault”, and if you are important in the church, then everyone has to “rally around and help him… He won’t be able to get a latte on Sunday. He won’t be able to watch ESPN. He might lose his house!”

        It is said to the unwashed, beat, losers, “You brought it on yourself. You should have saved more. You should have told your wife to get a job. You should have not bought the house until you could pay for it 100%.”

        Says who?

        “Of course a man should provide… The problem is men like you won’t let them.”

        What exactly have I done to not “let” anyone provide for their family?

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Lastmod,

        “I get annoyed when I hear, “You have amazing gifts!”, and I reply, “Well, tell me what they are?”

        Just in this one statement, we can see that either you are intentionally distancing yourself from the interaction, or else your social skills are embarrassingly inept.

        First of all, why should this statement be annoying to you? It is a compliment — a glib and rather shallow one to be sure, but at least the person is making an effort to connect. If this statement annoys you then either there’s something else going on that is bothering you, or else you are not at peace with yourself in that environment. In either case, it would not be out of place simply to say, “Thanks, but I’m not up for talking too much. I’ve got some things going on.” Then walk away. There’s no need to explain, just leave them wondering about you. This kind of response might arouse the interest and compassion that you say are lacking in others.

        Secondly, the specific response you gave is careless and it displays a lack of self-awareness. There are a number of other responses that would be more appropriate and engaging. You could mention something about yourself in an off-hand way, like “I can hack Silicon Valley, but I can’t get to church on time.” Or take a humble, dismissive approach — “…only amazing to fellow tech nerds.” Or make a joke of it — “It took me four years of college to get the wrapping off.” Or else, why not just return with the same degree of glibness by saying, “Gee whiz, thanks!”? It would be humbling to the other person to realize that he is being glib.

        Third, your chosen response has an air of arrogance and a need for affirmation, both of which serve to transfer your own feelings of annoyance to the other person, which is not helpful to making the interaction productive in some way.

        If I were you, I would sit down and make a list of responses that I could give to such statements, memorize them, and then experiment with them during the next interaction.

        It would also help if you understood exactly what you want out of the interaction. Do you want acceptance, admiration, inclusion, love, respect, or what??? Then concentrate on identifying things you could say or do that would draw that response from others. Practice those things until you find something that “works” for you.

        My Dad once told me, “You have to teach others how to treat you in the way that you want.” To do that, you have to know what you want, and you have to constantly monitor your interactions with others to nurture your reputation and to get the response that you want/need. If you want to teach the world to sing, then you must be singing something that is a recognizable tune, and sing it over and over again until others catch on.

        For me, I usually want respect from others at church. So I have to know the Bible, keep up on current events, say intelligent things, and be sharp and somewhat emotionally aloof when I interact with others.

        What do you want from others?
        What are you doing to attract what you want?
        What are you doing to attract what you don’t want?

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Hello Jack….

        Perhaps its a lifetime of being told “You have so much to offer” (usually by women), twelve years in church, full of “God has given you amazing gifts!” and other compliments.

        So when I have “done that searching” and have tried to use “said gifts” that I “supposedly” have, or actually offer what I evidently have “so much to offer”…

        I am met with the “Who do you think you are?” / “You need to wait on God to let Him decide when you can use your gifts.” / “Yes, you have a talent here, but my talent is more important.” attitudes.

        Whereas the infamous “they” seem to be allowed to run their arrogance on warp 10 with zero consequence. If I dare call someone out, then “I am just jealous” and “I have anger issues.”

        At my age, I honestly believe my Ego has been slashed to ribbons, and its beyond repair. When people say I have “gifts” I now expect them to tell me what they are, since they obviously see them, and every gift I thought I had, I obviously didn’t. I thought I was good with special needs people. Wrong. I thought I was good at writing. Wrong. I though I had a talent / humility for broken people. Wrong. So… now I ask people when they throw this statement at me, “Well, tell me what they are?”

        My tone and inflection are polite, not angry… and well, they give the templated “Only god can tell you that!”, or they just walk away confused. Everyone else, this infamous “they” seem to know everything about me, and “they” probably could tell me better than I could myself at this point……

        I mean, decades of thinking I had certain gifts or talent, or skills…well, I was wrong every time.

        So, now the only thing left is work. And not the work like the good Dr. in the clip mentioned. Some luck, right place and time got me this job. I have to work ten times harder than everyone else because I DO have a lower than average, or on the lower end of average intelligence. I am over my head here in my position in many areas. A task that may take some of my fellow co-workers a hour, takes me three. I get it done. On time. I deliver, but there are days at work when everyone is leaving at 5PM and I am going to be there until 8PM… not to get ahead, but to complete the tasks. Thankfully I am salaried.

        I don’t have the quick, cocky-funny answers, Jack. Never did, and when I do make a quip back… it comes off awkward and suddenly I am now “owing” someone an apology. These people I offend unintentionally never apologized for their arrogance. Never.

        So… Oscar says I am taller than average. Is that a gift from god now? What verse, in the Bible says being tall is a gift? No, its freaking genetics. That’s it. Is being shorter than average now a gift from god????

        So Jack… since this is the printed medium, its harder to convey tone, inflection and the like. I am small minded due to intellect, but I am not small minded in knowing that there are born winners and losers in this world.

        If the winners would actually tell me what these supposed “gifts” were over the decades, maybe I could have found better work, or at least a bit more peace of mind when I was younger.

        My life isn’t bad, mostly because now I am “old” (looking), and the sting of my appearance doesn’t bother me as much for the fact that I am old. I also at this point am not afraid to ask people this.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “So… Oscar says I am taller than average. Is that a gift from god now? What verse, in the Bible says being tall is a gift? No, its freaking genetics. That’s it. Is being shorter than average now a gift from god????”

        Your above-average height is a product of both genetics and probability. God created and sustains the universe by His word, which means the laws that govern the universe are God’s words. (Hebrews 1:1-4)

        Who wrote the laws that govern genetics? God did.

        Who wrote the laws that govern probability? God did.

        The same goes for your your above-average I.Q., and your above-average athleticism.

        Is being shorter than average a gift? It can be. Being short is an advantage in some areas and a disadvantage in others, just as being tall is an advantage in some areas, and a disadvantage in others.

        Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. We do our best to maximize our strengths and minimize our weaknesses. Sometimes we succeed. Sometimes we fail, learn, and adapt.

        You received gifts most men didn’t. Have you ever considered being grateful for them?

        Like

  13. Lastmod says:

    “Great. I’m very happy for you. By the way, aren’t you making more money now then you used to? Is that part of how your “life improved drastically”? If so, then how was that anything other than good advice?”

    I am doing well. In context to Dal’s advice of getting better work/career/job would make be a “provider” and thus be attractive to women, thus be able to raise a family…. and a-holes in the post and men like you say, “Oh, no, no career / job, nothing matters… only Jesus.”

    You guys can’t make up your minds on anything and change your stance, spin on a dime, and then act like your new stance “has always been like this”. You won’t be able to see it because of how arrogant you are.

    My career move had nothing to do with good advice, or Jesus, or church, or listening to this Dr. lecture me. I did it. It took time to get back and I don’t owe god, Jesus, the church, the men of the sphere anything for that.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      “I am doing well. In context to Dal’s advice of getting better work, career and job would make be a “provider” and thus be attractive to women, thus be able to raise a family…”

      Okay, so if you’re doing better, and part of doing better was getting a better job, then how was the advice to get a better job anything other than good advice? You followed Dalrock’s advice, and it helped make your life better, so doesn’t that make it good advice?

      “…and a-holes in the post and men like you say, “Oh, no! No career / job, nothing matters… Only Jesus!”

      See, that’s another lie. I never said, “Oh, no! No career / job, nothing matters… Only Jesus!” to anyone, least of all you.

      “My career move had nothing to do with good advice, or Jesus, or church, or listening to this Dr. lecture me. I did it.”

      I’m aware that you did it. Good job, by the way. Whether you did it because Dalrock said or not, the fact remains that you did what Dalrock advised you to do, and it made your life better. Good job.

      “I don’t owe god, Jesus, the church, or the men of the sphere anything for that.”

      You certainly do owe God. He gave you the ability to do what you’ve done. Like I said before, He blessed you with above-average height, above-average intelligence, and above-average athleticism, among other blessings. Good job putting at least some of your blessings to work in your favor.

      Like

  14. Lastmod says:

    “…you did what Dalrock advised you to do.”

    No. He told me to do this in order to get a wife… because a man has to have provision… because looks don’t matter, because nothing matters to women except “masculine pursuits” or whatever. Jesus said to store treasures in heaven… That only applies to the schlubs in the world, not the people usually purporting it and SAYING it.

    It was fate, and a gay man got me the interview… No Christian did….

    “Just keep praying, wait on god… He has an amazing plan for your life… Oh… no, no… You see you wasted too much time on drugs and drink… Just be happy being a janitor. God loves you so much!”

    Excrement.

    I quit church, and waiting on god, and when an offer for a potential interview came. I took it. If I stayed in church, I would still be “waiting on god to make the decision” and listening to “real men in the church”, which was what was keeping me chained and bound and a slave to this. I would still be mopping floors. My self-worth was DECREASING because of real “red pilled men in the church and in forums who are leaders”.

    It was the right place and the right time. That’s probably it in the end… and probably during the interview… “Hmmm… He can be taught the work. Let’s take a chance.”

    Here? A man is doomed from birth if he isn’t good looking, has a lower than average IQ. He has to just “know his place” in the hierarchy of men. Never improving. Being dumped on, and told what he doesn’t understand.

    Lovely, beautiful faith isn’t it?

    Like

    • o says:

      “No. He told me to do this in order to get a wife.”

      Regardless of why he told you to get a better job, and why you got a better job, getting a better job helped improve your life, didn’t it? So, how is doing something that improves your life anything other than good advice?

      “…because a man has to have provision…”

      Doesn’t he? You just said that a man should provide for his family.

      “…because looks don’t matter…”

      What specific person said that “looks don’t matter”?

      “…because nothing matters to women except “masculine pursuits” or whatever.”

      What specific person said that “nothing matters to women except ‘masculine pursuits'”?

      “Jesus said store treasures in heaven… That only applies to the schlubs in the world, not the people usually purporting it and SAYING it.”

      What specific person said that it doesn’t apply to them?

      “It was fate, and a gay man got me the interview… No christian did…”

      ”Just keep praying, wait on god… He has an amazing plan for your life. Oh, no, no. You see you wasted too much time on drugs and drink… Just be happy being a janitor. God loves you so much”

      What specific person told you to “just keep praying, wait on god”?

      “I quit church, and waiting on god, and when an offer for a potential interview came, I took it. If I stayed in church, I would still be “waiting on god to make the decision” and listening to “real men in the church” keeping me chained and bound and a slave to this. I would still be mopping floors. My self-worth was DECREASING because of real “red pilled men in the church and in forums who are leaders”.

      What specific person said any of that?

      “Here? A man is doomed from birth if he isn’t good looking, has a lower than average IQ.”

      You don’t have those problems.

      “Lovely, beautiful faith isn’t it?”

      Not any faith I recognize.

      Like

  15. Lastmod says:

    “You certainly do owe God. He gave you the ability to do what you’ve done. Like I said before, He blessed you with above-average height, above-average intelligence, and above-average athleticism, among other blessings. Good job putting at least some of your blessings to work in your favor.”

    Stop patronizing me, because of your past actions over the years, the hair-splitting, the belittling… I don’t know if this is a compliment, or a subtle jab… and if I agree… you then flush my head in the toilet and laugh at me.

    My intelligence is below average. Being tall and ugly is worse than being short and handsome. Athleticism? Cut the crap Oscar.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      “My intelligence is below average.”

      No, it’s not, and everyone here, including Scott, who evaluates intelligence for a living, has told you that it isn’t.

      “Being tall and ugly is worse than being short and handsome.”

      You’re not ugly. You’re a normal-looking man.

      “Athleticism?”

      Yeah. Not just anyone can get on a college sports team, or skateboard into their late ’40s. I couldn’t.

      “Cut the crap Oscar”

      As I wrote before, it’s kind of difficult to capitalize on gifts you refuse to admit exist.

      Like

  16. Elspeth says:

    In the early 2000s, I remember his book on purpose or vision or something. I was really into Myles Munroe for a while. I never realized you had posted on him before. He was a magnetic personality and a dynamic speaker. The accent certainly didn’t hurt, 🙂 His death was a shock to charismatic evangelicals.

    When SAM got serious about theology, we were drawn in a different direction; more reformed. Think Voddie Baucham, etc. Funny that. Men are (in my observation) rarely as moved by charismatic theological exposition as women are.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      Elspeth,

      “When SAM got serious about theology, we were drawn in a different direction; more reformed. Think Voddie Baucham, etc. Funny that. Men are (in my observation) rarely as moved by charismatic theological exposition as women are.”

      This is me and Mrs. Apostle to a tee. I am much more drawn to reformed theology and to contemplating the implications of it to my life and the world in general. My wife is energized by the emotional pull of a charismatic theological exposition, as you put it, while it does the opposite for me.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Elspeth says:

        Oh, but I LOVE reformed theology, RPA! I had just never been exposed to it until about 15 years ago. I could never go backward from here. I have never been particularly comfortable with emotional worship anyway. It’s not me.

        The reality is that emotive Christianity is the dominant way in America so it’s what most Christians of either sex are most familiar with. It speaks to the senses and placates felt needs.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Elspeth – I grew up in a conservative Baptist church that was Armenian in its theology. Getting invited to RUF (PCA’s college ministry) in college changed my life by opening up parts of the gospel that I knew were there but had never understood the true significance of until they were put into the big picture for me. It is such an eye opening experience to see for the first time God’s design in light of the cost Christ paid for the people God chose who are described as both dead in sin and actively battling against Him. Reformed theology is one of the reasons I tend to gravitate to older songs, such as “Be Thou My Vision” because they tend to address the depth of the Christian faith more so than newer music. You are quite correct, there is no going back from here.

        Like

  17. feeriker says:

    It seems that while there is a great deal of discussion of a man finding and staying the course of his decided purpose in life, there is relatively little discussion of the risks of him having a woman in his life to either distract him from his purpose, or leading him away from it altogether. This is a risk even –perhaps especially– for Christian men. For all the talk of men finding the ideal Christian wife who serves as a helpmeet along the journey of his life’s purpose, far too many forget that woman is a jealous creature, that anything a man focuses on that is not first and foremost ALL ABOUT HER is anathema to her, and that she will do everything in her power to sabotage it, whether her man’s mission is God-given or not, and whether she is (ostensibly) a Christ-follower or not. (How many Christian women flat-out REFUSE to submit to their husbands, even though they are fully aware of the biblical commandments that they do so?) It’s certainly less than surprising that a culture, especially a churchian culture, that is as gynocentric as the one in which we now live in the West doesn’t address this, but a deep dive into this dilemma is, I believe, vital to the potential success of any man’s life mission.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      @ feeriker

      “…far too many forget that woman is a jealous creature, that anything a man focuses on that is not first and foremost ALL ABOUT HER is anathema to her, and that she will do everything in her power to sabotage it…”

      I forget; did you serve in the military? Because you see this a lot in the military, and I’d always wondered why. You may have just solved a mystery for me.

      You meet all these hyper-masculine, super-soldiers with stacks of badges on their chests, and stacks of tabs on their shoulders. Women throw themselves at those guys. But, then when they get married, and even more so when they have kids, the wife says, “Oh no. You’re not doing any of that dangerous stuff any more. No more jumping out of airplanes, rappelling out of helicopters, mountaineering, scuba diving – forget all that stuff!”

      At that point, one of two things happens.

      (1) The husband says, “You knew who I was when you married me. I’m not changing.” The wife then gets mad and divorces him.

      (2) The husband says, “I love my wife, I’ll stop doing all the dangerous stuff”, which makes him miserable. A few years later, the wife tells the husband, “You’re not the man I married anymore”, and divorces him.

      That being said, it’s also true that every general I ever met was married to his college sweetheart, including the generals with stacks of badges and tabs.

      Proverbs 14:1 The wise woman builds her house,
      But the foolish pulls it down with her hands.

      Both exist. The challenge is marrying a wise one.

      Liked by 2 people

  18. feeriker says:

    “I forget; did you serve in the military?”

    Yes. Twenty years in the Navy.

    “Because you see this a lot in the military, and I’d always wondered why. You may have just solved a mystery for me.

    You meet all these hyper-masculine, super-Soldiers with stacks of badges on their chests, and stacks of tabs on their shoulders. Women throw themselves at those guys. But, then when they get married, and even more so when they have kids, the wife says, “Oh no. You’re not doing any of that dangerous stuff any more. No more jumping out of airplanes, rappelling out of helicopters, mountaineering, scuba diving – forget all that stuff!”

    Yep. More than a few of the sailors under my supervision had wives who tried to get them out of deploying because they’re married and have families.

    It takes a special and über-powerful strain of solipsistic narcissism to marry a man wearing a soldier’s/sailor’s/airman’s/marine’s/cop’s uniform and not only not know what that entails, but to somehow think that the fact that he’s married to YOU means that he’ll be exempt from facing any danger in that role. Yet I encountered DOZENS of wives — and not just junior enlisted men’s wives, either — who had EXACTLY that attitude. “Let some other poor schlub put his ass on the line, but NOT my husband!; The thing is, most of these wives were obnoxious Harridans who treated their “beloved” husbands like sh!t. Hubby was probably looking forward to deploying in order to GET THE HELL AWAY FROM HER and enjoy some peace.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      “Yes. Twenty years in the Navy.”

      I should’ve remembered that.

      “It takes a special and über-powerful strain of solipsistic narcissism to marry a man wearing a soldier’s/sailor’s/airman’s/marine’s/cop’s uniform and not only not know what that entails, but to somehow think that the fact that he’s married to YOU means that he’ll be exempt from facing any danger in that role.”

      Fortunately, I avoided that trap, but then, I only have a couple badges on my chest. The US went to war when I was in college, so when I told girls on dates that I was going on active duty after college, they knew what that meant. I’m sure that helped.

      Like

  19. Lastmod says:

    Another underdog, who came back….played tough, fell hard….REAL hard, got back up. Worked hard…..one of his last interviews. Fitting in a way about this post on vison, or purpose, and now….what the word “work” means…..but this right here I relate to. I interviewed today at the Nixon Museum / Birthpalce and Presidential Library in Yorba Linda to be a Docent (volunteer guide). I got it! I start my training next month. This volunteer position is a personal achievement for me. I relate to to Nixon at times because of circumstance and of his times and how despite a lack of charisma, he still found a way. Hard work. Lots of hard work.

    Liked by 2 people

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