A history of Sexperience corrodes marriage from the inside out.
Readership: Christians; Those who are Married or Marriage minded;
Theme: Feminine Submission
Length: 1,800 words
Reading Time: 10 minutes
Sexual Submission (2022-10-14) brought up the question of whether the model of Attraction / Arousal described therein was truly applicable in multiple contexts. Derek identified the model as pertaining fairly accurately to the experience of long-time married couples, while Deti argued that Attraction and Arousal are concomitant for women (similar to how they are for men) and that the model is a desperate attempt to deflect, explain, and excuse wives’ lack of Arousal.
This post will go over some dynamics that affect the context and then answer some questions that were brought up.
Comparing Models of Feminine Submission
I’ll offer some concise descriptions of the models of feminine submission that have been put forth.
Biblical Model: Good marriages last because the wife is chaste, and is regularly submissive and respectful to her husband. Bad marriages fail because the wife does not do these things. (Among other things.)
Jack’s Model (as given in Sexual Submission): Good marriages last because the wife is humble and trusting. Husbands play a role in keeping her that way. Bad marriages fail because the wife does not respect, submit, and help / cooperate with the husband. (Among other things.)
Derek’s Model: Good marriages last because the wife is focused on family life, including being a helper to and getting along well with her husband. Bad marriages fail because the wife is immature or selfish. (Among other things.)
Deti’s Model: Good marriages last because the wife regularly wants to have sex with her husband. Bad marriages fail because the wife is not genuinely attracted to / aroused by her husband. (That’s it!)
These models fit the biblical model in the following ways.
- Jack’s Model: The wife surrenders to the Headship authority of the husband.
- Derek’s Model: The wife conforms to her role as a wife and mother.
- Detis Model: The wife is submissive to the husband in the bedroom.
These models are valid in the following contexts.
- Jack’s Model: Generally works in successful marriages, but the specific reasons for that success vary from case to case.
- Derek’s Model: Hearkens back to traditional norms for marriage and family and is therefore time tested.
- Deti’s Model: Stands true in a sex centric culture where wimmin are ruled by Desires / Feeelz / Feminism / hypergamy / Immaturity and not by God nor husband.
These models proscribe a failure of the biblical model in the following ways.
- Jack’s Model: The marriage will fail if husbands do not take the initiative to impose Headship or if wives are uncooperative or unsubmissive.
- Derek’s Model: The marriage will fail if the wife is immature, selfish, or screwed up for whatever reason.
- Deti’s Model: The marriage will fail if the wife is not perpetually aroused (wanting to have sex with her husband all the time) and the husband cannot regularly and sufficiently gin up his Game (e.g. Dread, et al.).
It is clearly evident that if a marriage is to succeed over the long haul, then husband and wife will have to stick to the biblical model, or make the transition to the biblical model at some point, or else be doomed to dysfunction.
Sin Introduces Weaknesses to the Models
Deep Strength did a nice job describing how promiscuous women are disappointed with a husband because they subconsciously compare his qualities to all the best qualities of the men she’s had before.
“…the higher the number of sexual partners [a woman has had] the more comparisons she has to make toward her husband. Thus, if her husband doesn’t measure up in some way to partner #1, 2, 3, 4, etc., up to say 10 (n count = 10) in various different areas then she is more likely to be dissatisfied and start disrespecting and/or rebelling. For instance, if #2 made 6 figures, #5 had an athletes muscular physique, and #7 had his own house, even though all of these are different people she will generally expect that her husband should have most if not all of those qualities.
This is why expectations seem to be sky high with women nowadays. They’re taking aggregate comparisons of lots of men they slept with and expect the next one (e.g. their potential husband) to have all of the best qualities of all of those men put together.”Christianity and Masculinity: Why expectations of men and women are out of control (2022-10-14)
Women who can’t get aroused by their husband in marriage on an ongoing basis are almost certainly guilty of past sexual sins, or else they experienced some sort of psychological trauma, or maybe both. Men who married a virgin don’t really have this problem, or if they do, then they don’t really consider it to be a problem. Men who didn’t marry a virgin are frequently faced with this problem and because of the prevalence of fornication I would say it is now the norm. Scott and Mychael are an exception, by God’s grace.
Likewise, the same thing happens with men too.
“A similar thing tends to happen in men with the desensitizing nature of airbrushed women on social media, advertising, and porn. Once a man has seen so much “beauty” per se, he becomes more desensitized toward normal looking women in everyday life (not counting overweight/obesity type stuff). Hence, normal women can’t meet his unrealistic standards anymore.”Christianity and Masculinity: Why expectations of men and women are out of control (2022-10-14)
Deep Strength didn’t go far enough in describing the effects on men. Promiscuous men become disappointed with a wife because they compare her general level of respect and bedroom performance to all the best T&A he’s had before, i.e. swinging from the chandeliers at Niagara falls, and so on.
If his wife doesn’t measure up in some way to partner #1, 2, 3, 4, etc., up to say 10 (n count = 10) in various different areas then he is more likely to be dissatisfied and fail to truly love, cherish, and appreciate her for who she is. For instance, if #1 laughed at all his jokes, #3 came running to his door in the middle of the night for every single booty call, #5 could suck a golf ball through a garden hose and swallow every drop for four hours straight until her neck gave out, #7 had a “perfect 10” body, and #9 was a multiple orgasm squirter, even though all of these are different women he will generally expect that his wife should have most if not all of these qualities.
Imagine his disappointment then, after he gets married, his wife locks up in the bedroom because she’s comparing him to all the men that she’s cuff linked before. He’s stuck with a contentious nag who won’t put out, and regrets ever getting married. He will feel dissatisfied and curse women and marriage (maybe even God too), no matter that his wife may have many positive qualities.
Moreover, both Men and Women are taking aggregate comparisons of lots of media images / portrayals and past lovers and expect the next one (e.g. their actual or potential husband or wife) to have all of the best qualities of all of those images / portrayals / men or women put together.
Case Study — Jack and Jill
Neither my wife nor I were virgins when we married. So it can be expected that we will experience the frustrations and disappointments I described above.
- Even though I am a Ph.D. / professor, SMV = ~8, she still wants more attention, confidence, game, income, status, achievement, and so on out of me.
- Even though she is a sex bunny with an hourglass figure, I still want more respect, sexual enthusiasm, passion, and playfulness out of her.
There is still love and sexual attraction between us, but the sexual arousal is cluttered with emotional triggers and subconscious expectations and so it doesn’t occur spontaneously. However, becoming aware of these issues helps immensely, as I described in Riding the Raging Rivulet (2022-10-13). Learning the Erotic Blueprints and Personality of one’s spouse also helps streamline the festivities with fewer false starts and less frustration. These things would be difficult even without any past antipathetic experiences, but it can be overcome by God’s grace.
The point is, even the best of relationships are difficult to navigate, but having a history of hangups and hiccups introduces many more obstreperous obstacles to be overcome in attaining the ideal.
“Why should I do all this work for lackluster response and a little dampness, when what I should be getting is great sex and Niagara Falls? And what work is she going to do for me? What do I get out of this? What’s in this for me?”
Pardon me for being so blunt, but this statement perfectly represents the male perspective of a marriage suffering from a history of premarital sexual promiscuity, as I described above.
“If you’re married to a slow cooker or a steam engine who requires that much work and maintenance to get going, she’s not sexually attracted to you. If you have to do this much work and go through all this rigmarole and procedure just to get her to notice you want sex, she’s not sexually attracted to you and any arousal you get out of that will be purely mechanical.”
The answer is… Yes! That’s what a debased marriage is like.
As Feeriker said,
“Painful, unpleasant truths are always difficult to accept.”
Deti’s viewpoint is typical for men who have been psychologically abused by sexually promiscuous women and denied respect and natural affections in marriage. I understand this because I’ve experienced the same. However, because of the prevalence of feminism and sexual rebellion, even men who married virgins have to deal with dead bedroom syndrome, like Red Pill Apostle.
- In addition to the challenges of being imperfect humans trapped in a mortal body, sexual sins introduce more emotional and spiritual obstacles that must be overcome, perhaps on a daily basis.
- Married life brings to the surface all the best and the worst in people.
- When things are going well (like the humdrum of married life), people fall into habits and get complacent and lazy.
- When things fall apart, it’s time to do some inventory and take stock of what you’re dealing with, and what can reasonably be done to fit into the biblical model.
- Men can be very aggressive at establishing Headship authority. But only when circumstances demand it. Sexual sin removes the incentives of positive reward.
- Women can be very proactive about being submissive, including sexual submission. But only when circumstances motivate it. Sexual sin (among other things) erodes such circumstances.
No offense is intended to anyone mentioned here as an example.
- Σ Frame (Scott): We Marry Our Own Cross (2020-5-18)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Only God can grant a successful marriage (2020-5-20)
- Σ Frame (NovaSeeker): The Cross of Our Age (2021-5-3)
- Σ Frame (Thedeti, Red Pill Apostle): 2 Old Farts Talking About Their Wives (2021-12-20)
- Σ Frame (Thedeti): What can a husband do in response to a rebellious wife? (2022-1-31)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Why you will marry the wrong person (2022-3-2)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Epilogue: Counting the Cost (2022-3-30)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Validation (2022-10-11)