Rollo Tomassi’s Take on the Meet Cute Phenomenon

A Meet Cute is a great start, but a man must take the initiative to follow through.

Readership: Christian Men
Theme: Problems with The Red Pill / Misunderstood Models
Author’s Note: Soup Sandwich shared Rollo’s video with Jack on 2020/11/30.  This post was written intermittently from 2020/12/12 until the time of posting.
Reader’s Note: There’s a lot to be learned here, so it’s worth the read. You might (correctly) think this is a long post, but earlier drafts exceeded 6,000 words.  I’ve shortened it for the reader’s convenience.
Length: 4,400 words
Reading Time: 24 minutes + ~40 minutes of video (optional)

Intro

Soup Sandwich (SS) made waves with a video he made back in February 2020 about the Meet Cute phenomenon. Σ Frame and Christianity and Masculinity continued to explore and dissect the sociosexual dynamics of what SS described.

Here are the most noteworthy posts on this topic.

1. Σ Frame (SS): Probabilities (2020/2/24)
2. Σ Frame (SS, Jack): Opportunities (2020/2/26)
3. Σ Frame (Jack): Trajectories (2020/2/28)
4. Christianity and Masculinity: Meet cutes – Are they common? (2020/3/13)
5. Σ Frame: On the Significance and Value of the Meet Cute Experience (2020/4/3)
6. Σ Frame: Hopelessness (2020/4/6)
7. Christianity and Masculinity: Jumping back to meet cute scenarios (2020/6/27)
8. Σ Frame: Some like it Hot (2020/7/3)
9. Christianity and Masculinity: Generating and handling attraction from the opposite sex (2020/7/8)
10. Σ Frame: Handling an IOI requires a Miracle! (2020/7/17)
11. Σ Frame: The Meet Cute Phenomenon (2020/12/6)
12. Σ Frame: A Man’s Ability to Read IOIs Depends on Having a Firm Grasp on His Personal Archetypal Mythos (2021/6/21)
13. Σ Frame (Red Pill Apostle): The Meet Cute as a Positive Feedback Loop (2021/11/17)
14. Σ Frame: The Meet Cute is not about “women chasing men” (2021/11/19)
15. Σ Frame: Summary of the Meet Cute Phenomenon (2021/11/22)
16. Σ Frame: Moral Guidance Based Feedback vs. Sexual Attention (2021/11/24)
17. Σ Frame: Identifying Your Spiritual Domain (2021/12/1)
18. Σ Frame: The Meet Cute Experience as a Selection Model (2022/2/18)
19. Σ Frame: Pursuing Flow to develop Confidence and Trust (2022/4/22)
20. Σ Frame: Validation (2022/10/11)
21. Σ Frame: Christian Detachment (2023/1/30)
22. Σ Frame: On Choosing a Wife Wisely (2023/5/1)
23. Σ Frame: The Applied ¡ScIeNcE! of IOIs cannot be independently confirmed (2023/9/26)
24. Σ Frame: Selecting Markets for Better Market Selection (2024/2/9)

* SS has taken down the original video and his posts for personal reasons.

That’s not all.  Rollo Tomassi also picked apart SS’s original Meet Cute video.  So here, we’re going to return him the favor.  SS’s video can be seen in Rollo’s video.

Rollo Tomassi: Is Game Really Necessary?  (2020/2/23)

Rollo’s Take 1 on SS’s Video

Rollo seems hesitant to address this topic.  He starts by saying he’s determined to talk about it, no matter what anyone thinks.  (???)  Then he spends 14 minutes weeding out his audience and going over several disclaimers.

The first part of SS’s video begins at 14:15, in which he explains the Meet Cute phenomenon using a personal anecdote.

Rollo picks up at 18:55. His talk covers a lot of ground, so I’ve summarized his talk as follows.

Rollo says there are basically three ways for a man to make himself sexually ‘visible’ to women.

1. Game
2. The man is stinking rich and/or has money to throw on women.
3. The man is so perfectly handsome that he naturally attracts women.

The last two situations might make Game completely unnecessary.

Rollo says physique can be improved with some effort, and not many men have the $$$, but everyone has Game / Rizz. The problem is that it is ineffective and/or underdeveloped for the majority of men. And those men who have developed their game tend to be ego invested in it, and this slows them down. Also, women have a much MUCH higher attraction floor than men do, and this floor is usually above a man’s SMV.

But the question that SS’s video brings up is this:

“Is a man’s romantic success just predicated on a woman’s initial attraction to him?”

Initially, Rollo says that SS experienced Meet Cutes because he happened to be in the right place at the right time. Rollo says it happened to him too.  He chose his locale, and put himself into a certain group of people where he could be as attractive as he could (as a guitarist in a rock band), and women DID find him attractive.

Then, Rollo cites some key quotes from Old School Pick Up Artistry (OSPUA) as follows, with the first being central to his argument.

• OSPUA (David DeAngelo):  “Attraction is not a choice.” A woman does not ‘decide’ to be attracted to a man.
• When a woman is attracted to you, all you have to do is NOT screw it up.  Don’t be incongruent with the image that she has of you in her head.
• OSPUA:  “Kill your ego.” …because that is what prevents you from inserting yourself into a position where you could either ‘start up’ or get rejected.
• OSPUA (Mark Manson):  Vulnerability is key.  Rollo says it’s a vulnerability competition, that is, the man has to display less vulnerability than the woman.
• Iron Rule of Tomassi 3:  “If any woman makes you wait for sex, then the sex is not worth waiting for.  If a woman is putting something between you and sex, then there is something that is mitigating that desire.”
• NEXT those women who don’t ‘clue in’ / display IOIs.

Full frontal IOIs. She’s about to open up.

But then Rollo pivots to say that the whole idea that, “‘Attraction is not a choice’ means that ‘a man’s romantic success is determined by a woman’s initial attraction to him'”, is a misconception. This is exactly what a lot of guys think, and that to be that guy, you have to be in the right place at the right time. But it’s more than that.

“Why is attraction NOT a choice?  The question is this.  Why bother learning game?  Why go to all that trouble if all I have to do is wait for her to notice me?”

“While attraction is not a choice, you can certainly use Game to put yourself into the best possible potential so that IF attraction is possible, then … you are putting yourself into the right space. You are congruent, your look, your attraction potential for that woman is put into the position where IF she is attracted to you, that you can take it from there.”

“When you get into a situation where a woman is attracted to you, the only thing you have to do is NOT screw it up, NOT say the wrong thing, NOT be incongruent with the impression of what that woman has of you in her head.”

The bottom line is that there has to be a genuine desire between that woman and you.

In summary of this part of the video, Rollo’s approach is basically…

1. Get your head straightened out about the nature of women and how intersexual interactions transpire.
2. Iron out your psychological disposition.
3. Carefully orchestrate the circumstances in which a Meet Cute can happen.
4. Be on your Game. The value of Game is to maximize your potential.
5. After receiving an IOI, you must take action within 3 seconds.
6. Focus on her desire, and whether there is anything that is mitigating her desire.
7. Attraction happens when your overall impression on her matches whatever punches her buttons.

Now, let’s compare this to what SS said about Meet Cutes.  SS clarified The Recipe for a Meet Cute (2021/7/24) as having the following ingredients.

1. The woman must find the man exceedingly attractive, enough to where her subconscious is short-circuiting any rational filters on her behavior.
2. The woman must be only barely above the threshold of that particular man’s attraction floor. If it is any lower, then he’ll relegate her to the STR category.  If it is any higher, then he’ll get ‘wowed’, lose focus, and screw it up.
3. The meeting is totally spontaneous.

Watch those eyes pop and her jaw drop open. Arousal is imminent. Success!

Rollo’s Take 2 on SS’s Video

The second part of SS’s video begins at 35:57.

SS describes a Meet Cute that he and a friend experienced at a restaurant, and then recounts his wife’s comments about how they met.  He recalls the moment he realized that women are extremely sexually attracted to certain men, as this was new to him at that time.

At 37:08, Rollo offers an explanation of SS story, using the AF/BB model.  He jumps around a lot and stumbles through it, so I’ve taken the liberty to paraphrase his commentary as follows.

Yes, SS is right.  Women assess men visually.  In fact, I would say women are at least as visual as men are when it comes to sexuality, and some women are far more visual than men are.  So if a woman sees a guy walking across the parking lot at a distance, she can tell whether that guy is hot or not.

We’re taught that women don’t do this or that they need some sort of coercion or some game for a woman to feel attraction.  But the truth is that both men and women are able to visually assess sexual viability and feel attraction and/or arousal for someone of the opposite sex.

Women have always been visually aware of men’s physical cues of sexual viability.  But they are probably becoming more attuned to physical cues now because of the internet and because of our global sexual marketplace.

But here’s the thing. There’s a difference between attraction and arousal.  A woman can see a guy who is hot and feel attracted to him, but there needs to be something more for arousal to occur.

Attraction occurs when women see men as good dads and long-term providers.  Arousal occurs when a woman sees a guy strutting across a parking lot and recognizes a good hot sexual opportunity.  That’s attraction versus arousal.

Reframing this using the Alpha Fux / Beta Bucks model, Alpha Fux is the arousal side of hypergamy, Beta Bucks is the attraction side of hypergamy — long term versus short term — Alpha Seed / Beta Need.

Another thing is that the times have changed since SS was a younger man.  SS is recalling the moment he arrived at this realization like this is something that’s new to him.  You have to understand that back in the day, back before the internet, back before open hypergamy, back before hypergamy was something that women would openly embrace and proudly flaunt, men didn’t know this about women.  Men didn’t have The Red Pill to help them wake up and unplug from the matrix.  SS picked up on something about women that almost all other men knew nothing about at that time, so we can’t give him any sh!t for wondering about that.

Nowadays, I think more and more guys are becoming aware of how the game works.  Some guys learn this sooner, some guys learn this later.  The reason is because we have The Red Pill and also women are being more open about it.  Women in today’s global sexual marketplace feel more comfortable embracing hypergamy and embracing the game.  Womankind is now saying, “You know what?  We are so in control of this situation, of society, and this social order that we are now comfortable in revealing the game.”  They are now comfortable in saying, “Yeah, you’re right.  We look for the hottest guy.  We can spot them from across the room.”

In summary, Rollo talks about how sexually attractive men begin to be aware that they are ‘visible’ to women at a young age.  Rollo spells out the difference between attraction and arousal, and asserts that women are just as aware of physical cues of attraction as men are.  Women used to deny this, but not so much anymore.

In Trajectories (2020/2/28), Jack and SS unpacked this to explain why some men ‘get it’ early in life, while others never do, and how this affects their mating opportunities and determines which stratagems are viable.  Jack also examined Female Attraction and the dynamics leading to female Sexual Submission.  The difference is that visual stimuli leads directly to arousal with men, but only attraction for women.  Game is often intended to stimulate female arousal, among other things.

Rollo’s Take 3 on SS’s Video

The third part of SS’s video begins at 40:25.

SS comes to a conclusion that is now widely recognized in the Christian Manosphere…

“It is more or less impossible to generate true, heart-pounding visceral attraction from a woman who was lukewarm about you in the first place.

And that which follows heuristically:

If you marry a woman who was not out of her mind (e.g. breaking the rules for you that she sets for other men) be prepared to deal with the consequences of that at any point later in the marriage.”

Σ Frame Axiom 9

Rollo responds at 41:25.  Rollo dances around the subject again, so here I’ll summarize Rollo’s commentary and expand it according to my understanding.

SS’s point is that a Meet Cute depends on both attraction and arousal being present at the get-go.  Rollo asserts that the idea that SS is getting onto here, is that Game and self-improvement is pointless.  Either you’ve ‘got it’, or you don’t.  In a rare circumstance, a man might meet someone who happens to be attracted by some unique traits that he possesses that she is especially interested in, but that’s highly unlikely to generate arousal if it’s not already present.

This is actually something that PUAs picked up on a long time ago, as David DeAngelo used to say, “Attraction is not a choice.”

Stacey Thompson (center) can’t hide her arousal while interviewing Flex Lewis, even in front of his bemused wife (right)!

Rollo describes examples of four types of men to illustrate his points.

• If Jason Momoa was acting and dressing effeminately, women would still get hot for him.  This is because women recognize that his appearance is incongruent with his deeper masculine character.
• Jake, a buddy he used to work with, was extremely good-looking but also hopelessly Blue Pilled.  He could get laid and he did, but he could never keep a woman or turn [the relationship] into what he wanted it to be.
• Mystery (an old school PUA) got laid like tile, but he became really despondent and suicidal because he couldn’t turn women into what he wanted them to be.
• Guys (like Ell!0t R0dgәr for instance) who get the notion that if they said the right things and they did the right things, then they would in some way be successful in their reproductive trials and tribulations.

Using these examples, Rollo makes the following points.

• Women are quite skilled at sniffing out the ‘real man’, even when it is not outwardly obvious.  (I presume he means that women’s intuitions are subconsciously linked to arousal.)
• PUA grifters try to sell courses or make money off of convincing poor saps that if they say the right thing and they do the right thing then they’ll be able to nail a hot blonde with big tits and blue eyes.  (Rollo says this is NOT what he teaches.)  Then, when guys figure out this doesn’t ‘work’, then they get Black Pilled in a hurry.  This disappointment is the whole premise of forums like PUA H@te and S1ut H@te.
• When you adopt the idea that there’s nothing you can do, that there’s no pick up line that is going to ‘get’ a girl interested who’s not already interested, that there’s nothing you can do to make yourself more attractive to women, or to kickstart a relationship, or get some action, or make any progress towards your sociosexual hopes and dreams, then you’re putting your psychological well-being in peril.  You’re forfeiting hope and your sense of personal autonomy.  You’re on a trajectory towards the abyss.
• Context is everything.  You can do things to put yourself into a more attractive light, and you can do things to put yourself into a more unattractive light.

The last point parallels Rowena’s description of Female Attraction.  Also, Oscar has revealed the error in regarding women as a vending machine in The Lie of Female Hypoagency (2024/4/1).

Rollo’s Take 4 on SS’s Video

The fourth part of SS’s video begins at 59:00.

Speaking from his own experience, SS says he started having Meet Cutes when he was just barely 16 years old and then they continued to happen regularly.  He says experiencing this during post-adolescence has a huge influence on a man’s sociosexual development.  It becomes an important part of his confidence, self-esteem, and self-image.  SS says he enjoyed it, but he never really thought about the why’s and wherefore’s at all.  When Meet Cutes are a regular occurrence, it is easy for a man to assume it is just a normal thing and take it for granted.

It wasn’t until he started interacting with the Manosphere that he realized this is NOT every man’s experience, as he says at 59:45…

“Here’s the part that really makes me uncomfortable as I engage with the men of the Manosphere.  I get the feeling that there is a significant number of men who read Red Pill sites and engage with these sites and these blogs who have never had [a Meet Cute] happen to them.  They’ve never had the Meet Cute story, not once, ever.  Furthermore, I get the feeling that if you haven’t had that happen to you by a certain age… you probably never will!”

[Uncomfortable Pregnant Pause]

“I want to end this video on something positive because I am a positive-thinking guy.  I want people to win.  I want people to get their goals met.  I want men to Meet Cute girls [pun] and get married and have children and have a life and all that.  I really want that!  But I’m starting to get the feeling that some of this is like when an immovable object meets an irresistible force.  I don’t know where the dam is gonna break there.  When I think about those Meet Cute stories that have happened to me over my lifetime, I didn’t DO anything to make them happen.  I didn’t embark upon some self-improvement project.  I didn’t think, “Oh, you know…  Here’s what I’ve got to do to get girls…”  It just happened, and I couldn’t tell you what it was, and so I don’t know what to do about that.  I want people who have been doing this for longer than me like Rollo and Rich Cooper to say, “Oh no.  You got it all wrong.  This is how we’re gonna get this to happen.”  Or “This is how we get it to happen.  Here are some success stories…” or whatever.”

At 1:02:00, Rollo recounts the story of having a Meet Cute at a bar that led to him meeting his wife.  He emphasizes that he still had to be dominant, exercise his will, make decisions, and pursue her.  He says the key is that a man must strike an effective balance between detachment and pursuance within the relevant context, and this is exactly why PUA is an ART having many techniques.  Guys who ‘get it’ (like SS) don’t need to learn it.  But those who don’t, need to get out there and practice, Practice, PRACTICE.

At 1:10:20, Rollo leaves SS’ video about the Meet Cute phenomenon and begins talking about Game, pursuance, and answering questions from readers.

Summary

I would summarize Rollo’s stance as thus.

Meet Cutes are important, they help get things rolling and make things easier and smoother, but Meet Cute or not, a man still has to take action — win or lose and there are no guarantees.  The worst thing a man could do is to give up on himself and/or never make any effort.

Rollo’s presentation appeals to the dire interests of secular men by explicating actionable Red Pill knowledge and feeding their fantasies of gaming and bedding chicks.  Rollo attempts to strike a delicate balance between inspiring men to do better and warning them against despair.

Similarities of Opinion

Rollo and SS are in agreement about the nature and role of attraction.  Both SS and Rollo agree that there has to be a genuine desire between the man and woman.  SS muses about this in a spirit of wonder while Rollo explains that, for women, there is a difference between attraction and arousal.

Both men agree that women are unable to love a man in the way that a man wants to be loved, and that men cannot change a woman to be what he wants her to be.  That is not to say that it is not impossible, but that she must choose to do this on her own initiative.  Heh.

Differences of Opinion

Rollo’s purpose is to help secular men grapple with the present debased SMP, and it is assumed men are looking to get laid, whereas SS’s intentions were to match up with someone he could marry.  Big difference.

Rollo believes Game and improving one’s self has intrinsic value in attracting chicks and creating arousal, whereas, SS assumes that a man is either of the ‘Have’ or ‘Have Not’ variety, and nothing can be done to change this.

SS’s viewpoint doesn’t really jive with Rollo’s outlook, because according to SS, women are trying to get into relationships and get laid more than men are, and there isn’t much a man can do to alter his personal reality.  All a man can do is work with whatever he finds.  Furthermore, this rescinds Rollo’s underlying assumption and fundamental principle that female affection must be earned by a man (viz. the Male Burden of Performance) — NOT through some kind of Blue Pill type of transaction (e.g. Chivalry, pedestalization, etc.), but through the development of masculine characteristics (charisma, confidence, detachment, LAMPS, Game, Mastery, etc.) that are attractive to women.

Objections

One could dismiss Rollo’s stance on the grounds that he has a vested interest (i.e. his income) in proclaiming the virtues of exercising willful agency in Game and self-development.

One could also dismiss SS’s position as naïvely sitting on his laurels and coasting by on his good genes.  “Golly gee whiz, Opie!  I can’t get rid of all these pesky women!”  Although this is a stupendous fantasy for the vast majority of men, it is a daily reality for a select few (like SS).

Ultimately, Rollo and SS are addressing two completely different audiences / viewpoints — the ‘Have’s’ and the ‘Have Not’s’.  This is important for understanding their differences of opinion, but both men have reasons for not stating this explicitly.

• Rollo doesn’t want to discourage men.
• SS apparently thinks it to be controversial, rude, and unhelpful.

If we look at SS’s viewpoint from Rollo’s viewpoint, we can understand his scruples.  The overriding theme of his show caters to men who are NOT naturals — men who, for the most part, aspire to be plate spinners / PUAs and who are either AMOGing about it or else trying to get laid.  He may not want to empathize with SS too much because non-naturals / ‘Have Not’s’ (his followers) have a love-hate relationship with Naturals / ‘Have’s’ (like SS), characterized by admiration, bitterness, envy, and resentment.

The Christian Lens

SS’s view of women concurs with Biblical, historic, and fabled accounts of successful relationships, whereas Rollo’s viewpoint reflects the sexually impoverished modern man’s reaction to the debacle of feminism.

SS’s Meet Cute is a Christian approach, whereas Rollo’s interpretation is not.  The basic Christian approach that has been ascertained by the Christian Manosphere is for a man to first get himself together and be on his mission / purpose.  Somewhere along the way, a woman notices him and joins him as a companion and helper (and possibly a wife).  This approach has come to be embraced by the secular Manosphere as well, but only for men interested in LTR’s / marriage.

Ed Hurst has been blogging about the secrets of building masculine character just as long as Rollo has.  Ed makes it clear that a man can only improve himself through faith in God and that this requires (1) a covenant community, and (2) some length of time.  Of course, this is not immediately satisfying to men who want to get laid in the next 24 hours and then sit poolside and watch civilization burn to the ground.

The Paradox of Desire

When we compare Rollo’s and SS’s perspectives, remarkably, they are both correct.  This becomes evident when we consider that there is a paradox that accounts for the differences between their two positions.   The paradox is that a man must take action, but if you prioritize finding a woman first, then it won’t work out well in the long run.

Therefore, Rollo is correct in emphasizing that men need to put forth a concentrated effort to develop themselves, exercise will power, put themselves out there in a place where things can happen, learn to read IOIs, initiate action, showcase some Game / Rizz, dominate the sociosexual interaction, gain confidence, and last but not least, NOT give up on themselves.  He says there are no guarantees, which glibly refers to the inherent paradox of desire.  However, he never goes so far as to explain the nature of the paradox* and/or say that men must NOT prioritize p00n in order to actually ‘get it’, as SS surmises.  He won’t address this directly, because if he did, he’d lose most of his following.  Characteristic of lust itself, the wanting is better than the having.

OTOH, SS is also correct in saying that it is the woman, NOT the man, who should be the crooner who is silly and sh!t-faced with desire — a nod to the Tingly Respect relationship structure.  He is also correct in saying there’s nothing a man can do through sheer willpower to make that happen.  It is entirely dependent on context, propinquity, and the woman’s freedom to choose.  All he can do is be on top of his game and take action when it happens.

The paradoxical glitch is that if a man is truly detached, totally focused on his thing, and is ‘in the zone’, then he isn’t going to be aware of any woman giving him IOIs. OTOH, if he is self-conscious enough to be aware of the impression he is making on others in the moment, then he’ll lose his concentration and confidence. He’ll lose the vulnerability competition, as Rollo puts it.

* I believe Rollo may have addressed this phenomenon elsewhere in his writings, but I’m not sure where.  Maybe readers might know.

Related

• Σ Frame: Models of Courtship and Marital Structure (2018/10/3)
• Σ Frame: Tingles = Respect (2018/10/6)
• Σ Frame: Placing the Marriage Structures within the Archetypical Models (2020/9/28)
• Σ Frame: More on Relational Archetypes (2020/11/28)
• Σ Frame: Determination and Detachment (2022/4/2)
• Christianity and Masculinity: What sexual attraction does and does not do (2022/8/28)
• Christianity and Masculinity: The differences between sexual attraction and sexual arousal (2022/9/1)
• Σ Frame: Slut Eye (2023/9/15)
• Christianity and Masculinity: A Christian understanding of attraction, and the role it plays in marriage: Dominion is baked into the cake. Part 4 (2024/3/4)