Love begins where perfection ends

The heart must reorient towards embracing Covenantal archetypes.

Readership: All
Reader’s Note: This post describes an application of making Bids and Demands.
Length: 3,000 words
Reading Time: 12 minutes

Case Study: Wife Demands Perfect Love

My wife and I had a long argument one morning.* The meat and potatoes of the argument involved two blog posts that we shared with each other the night before.

First, I shared this post with her:

Finer Femininity: The wife desired senses what is needed (2021 February 5)

Then she shared this post with me:

First Cry Parenting: How to be a good husband to keep your marriage happy (2019 February 14)

I won’t go into the article from First Cry here, except to say that is filled with feminist Blue Pill ideals. (It’s actually quite difficult to find anything Based online.)

In summary of the conversation with my wife, she had the idea that unless I did everything described in the First Cry post, I wasn’t really loving her. I knew this was a false, even outlandish claim. I knew even if I did everything in that post flawlessly, she would still find other things to be discontented with. But she insisted that it would make her happy.

I asked her how she would feel if I said she didn’t really love me unless she did everything in the Finer Femininity post I shared with her. She got angry and said she couldn’t and she wouldn’t. I responded, “You refuse to even try!  So is it right for me to say that you don’t really love me?” She became confused and didn’t respond.

I told her, “Those articles describe two dichotomous ideals, but reality is far from either ideal. People are not perfect. Everyone has some shortcomings. Love doesn’t begin when the ideal has been reached [as she believed]. Love begins at the point where we embrace the fact that reality fails to match the ideal.”

This was a shocker for her and she went ballistic. But after she sat on this idea for a while (a few hours), she began to accept the truth of it. When she finally did, she felt very sorry for herself.

Since this event,* her expectations have become a little more realistic, and her attitude has improved somewhat. From a wider viewpoint, this discussion had put a crack in her Fairy Tale notions of love and marriage, which was somewhat tragic, but also remedial – and necessary for sanctification.

Looking back on this, I saw that this occasion was not just one, but two answered prayers.

  1. A guy in my men’s group had recently prayed for my wife to love me more.
  2. I had been praying to understand the purpose of the Covenant Law more clearly.

Next, I’ll discuss what (2) means.

* Note: This event happened on Sunday, February 7, 2021.

Love as described by Covenant Law

One of the reasons why the Covenant Law is important is because it points out how we cannot reach God’s ideal, but it also reveals God’s love. To explain this, I’ll begin with an insightful description of love from 1st Corinthians 13.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails.  But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.  For we know in part and we prophesy in part.  10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.  Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Happy young couple having fun outdoors.

Looking at this chapter from an introspective viewpoint, we can observe the following implications.

Verses 1-3: There is no skill set to be had, no threshold of perfection that must be met, nor any standard of performance that must be reached before one can make the effort to love and be loved. To reach for these things instead of directly embracing the challenges of love amounts to chasing after the Old Covenant at best, or Pharisaical Legalism at worst. The Law of the New Covenant invites us to love God, our neighbors, and our spouses, and this love begins in the here and now.

Verses 4-7: These are good things for husbands to remember when faced with the difficult task of loving their wives. (See Ephesians 5:25, Ephesians 5:28, and Colossians 3:19.) Furthermore, when a husband instructs his wife to offer better responses to his bids, he is inviting her to engage with him in a manner that better represents a loving interaction according to the New Covenant. It seems that most women need to be constantly, gently, and firmly reminded of this.

Verses 8-12: Apparently, practicing the Covenantal Law of Love contributes towards our spiritual maturity. These verses also suggest that prophecy** and special knowledge (e.g. Red Pill lore) are required to deal with those who are spiritually immature. (The word “Perfect” in verse 10 refers to spiritual maturity in a person.)

Verse 13: Faith, Hope, and Love are the troika of Christian Living.

Similar to my wife’s expectations of love and marriage, the Covenant Law is like an ideal that is impossible to attain.*  We cannot love our neighbor perfectly. We cannot even love God perfectly. Meanwhile, real life is a totally different world. Feministic ideologies encroach our sense of masculine domain and authority, and nasty people test our wits and our patience on a daily basis. Moreover, people are not perfect. Everyone has some shortcomings. But love doesn’t begin when the ideal has been reached (as my wife believed, and some religious folks think). If we work and wait for perfection, then we’ll always be discontented and frustrated. Love begins at the point where we embrace the fact that reality fails to match the ideal, and this is because humility is a key ingredient in experiencing and exchanging love.

Secular culture describes this collision with reality as “coming to terms with one’s self” or “getting a grip on life”. Evangelical Christians believe this point of transformation begins with repentance and forgiveness. Ed Hurst has written for years about how renewal happens when people begin to embrace Covenant Law, and I am coming to see things the same way, because “coming to terms” might help one learn to navigate through life, repentance and forgiveness may stop the (relation)ship from sailing in the wrong direction, but these are not enough to turn the ship around to head(ship) in the right direction. We must know the coordinates of life that are defined by the Covenant Law and head(ship) in that direction.

* People from different faith backgrounds may view Covenant Law differently. Someone with an Arminian background may consider the Covenant Law to be like a standard to strive towards. Someone from a Calvinistic background might see it as a standard to be judged by. But the bottom line is that either way you look at it, we cannot not match the standard.  Arminian thinkers must explore the extent to which God is willing to exercise His sovereignty, and must grapple with the question of whether people are truly free to choose (i.e. not knowing the choice that will be made because, let’s face it, if the perfect and all powerful God knows what you’ll choose ahead of time it’s not really a choice).  Calvinist thinkers have to deal with the question of why, if God is sovereign and planned everything out, are we still culpable for certain consequences of sin? But the answers to all of these questions can be found in one’s willingness to love in the present moment.
** A prophet is one who enlightens people to recognize truth, pursue God’s will for mankind, and prepare themselves accordingly. See Current Trends in Prophecy (2020-03-13) for more on this.

Different Perspectives of Love

A man wants a woman to offer herself — her affections, her youthful beauty, her fertile body, her passionate enthusiasm, her time, and her feminine intuitions — to lend service to his life purpose. In fact, a man who holds this expectation of a woman, which is similar to what is described by Finer Feminity (which I conveyed to my wife in the case study above), is not in disagreement with the archetype of femininity described in the Biblical Covenant. But unfortunately for too many women, this is the last thing to enter their minds. It just doesn’t stack up to women’s expectations of romantic love from boyfriends, dutiful provision and protection from husbands, or the intense Tingling heat from Chads. Hence, the Feminine Christian Marriage Quadrilemma.

For example, we are used to hearing women say things like, “He should love me the way I am!” and “If you can’t accept me at my worst, then you don’t deserve my best!” But at no point will they ever admit that their attitude and behavior is unacceptable and that they cannot measure up to the Covenant standard (gentle, modest, pure, quiet spirit, respectful, submissive, etc. See 1st Peter 3:1-6 and Ephesians 5:33).  That would require humility, you see.

When my wife demanded that I should treat her like what is described in the First Cry post, she intended this as a request for me to express more love to her. But I knew that if I had done so, it would not have had the desired effect to make her feel loved. So instead, I pressed my wife for a response to my request for her to be more aware of my needs (according to the Finer Femininity post). By doing so, I was able to elicit a confession from her that she could not measure up. (She said, “I can’t, and I won’t!”) Although she intended this statement to be a refusal, in fact, it was a confession that ushered her into a repentance. The way I expressed love to her was to make her aware of her confusion about her expectations of love, and guide her towards a repentance. Afterwards, she did begin to feel loved, and she expressed this to me by loving me more in return.

A similar dynamic happens with men, but from the opposite extreme. This may be due to a misunderstanding and misapplication of love, as described in 1 Corinthians 13. Christian men and women alike consider the behavior described in 1 Corinthians 13 to be reminiscent of the proverbial “Nice Guy” (c.f. Robert Glover’s book) which we know can never score any points in life. Christian love has the “nice guy” image partly because a works mentality is assumed by those who don’t know God very well and also because they have some sort of covert contract with God or with their partner, thereby becoming a modern example of prodigal son’s older brother – a legalistic Pharisee.  That is, people think that God and/or a spouse should reward virtuous behavior with blessings, attention, or sex, respectively, and misdemeanors with punishment, so they work their @sses off in order to avoid the consequences of their sin and to build a better life for themselves. But that’s just not how it works. (The Book of Job dispels this false myth.) As a result, men are doing backflips to accommodate women’s bad behaviors (usually in the hope of getting laid).

Acrobatic young man backflipping in field of sunflowers. Slow Motion Insanity.

The point is, men might behave in loving ways, according to 1 Corinthians 13, but these actions are not perceived nor received as love by the wife. The reason is because these men will never admit that their effeminate concepts of “love”, characterized by a simping attitude and pedestalizing behaviors are unacceptable to God and to women as well, and that they cannot measure up to an authoritative Headship role. In other words, it’s not their actions that are wrong, it is their faith in their God ordained masculine authority and the accompanying frame of mind that are missing. By focusing on these false concepts of love and authority, many other virtuous traits are neglected and fall into disuse, or are never developed in the first place.

These false images of Christ, Christian love, Covenant authority, and masculinity are where Christianity has gone wrong.

It’s quite common for western men to think this way, given decades of feminist indoctrination, but this notion does not originate from feminist culture nor even bad church doctrine. It originates from the fallen mind’s desire to orchestrate our own lives. So to some extent, we all have to watch for this tendency in ourselves — to think that following the rules obligates God to reward us in certain ways according to our conveniences, desires, pleasures, or preferences. In addition, too often it is assumed that the rewards will be financial, temporal, and/or carnal in nature, instead of the power that comes of fitting ourselves into the Covenant archetype and finding joy in pleasing our creator.

This is a shocker for men, especially Christian men who are familiar with 1st Corinthians 13, and who have the idea that if they just “love” (viz. worship and obey) their wives more, then their wives will magically reform themselves into sexy monogamous Proverbs 31 ex-bimbos!  But women just don’t function this way, and men don’t know what to do about this because they won’t embrace the Covenant standard for men, or worse, condemn it as misogynistic.  Some men cannot accept the truth of this idea even after many years of marriage. When they finally take the Red Pill, it only comes after a devastating heartbreak and/or fiscal ruin. They have to hit bottom before they know which way is up. (Me included.)

Concluding Statements

Why are those ideals expressed in the two blog articles cited at the beginning important? Those articles express ideals that we can strive to attain, and also which reveal our shortcomings and weaknesses, and our need for love and grace. However, the article from Finer Femininity is closer to God’s Covenant Law, and is therefore a better ideal to strive for. But the bottom line is that we cannot ever match the ideal (either one, really), and that is where love begins. We begin to receive God’s love and grace when we face our weaknesses and shortcomings. We trample the grace of God when we deny them or refuse to admit that we cannot measure up.

As I wrote earlier, love begins at the point where we embrace the fact that reality fails to match the ideal. We must then follow through by adapting to the relational structure outlined in the Covenant Law.

Here’s a simple way to sum up all the cognitive dissonance about love:

  1. The worldly ideal of love is focused on what one gets out of the transaction (For women, e.g. protection, provision, status, Tingles, etc.; For men, e.g. sex.) Of note, the Covert Contract is a transactional view of what one gets out of the interaction. It might be accompanied by loving behaviors, but the contractual context displaces the discernment necessary to employ wisdom in the interaction, and thereby destroys the delivery of the message.
  2. The Covenant ideal of love is focused on what one gives towards encouraging the other person’s growth towards maturity (For women, e.g. childrearing, companionship, help in various ways, a quiet heart, respect, sex, submission, etc.; For men, e.g. direction, guidance, protection, provision, purpose, etc.)

With these differences in perspective in mind, it becomes clear why worldly minded people misinterpret the nature of Christ as described in 1 Corinthians 13 as a weakness, and how the Covert Contract (or a similar mentality) transforms gestures of love into pedestalization.

Applying Deep Strengths list of vetting qualifications, Scott’s axiom, and Deti’s techniques are quite helpful. However, these are merely adaptations to the current malaise, and won’t necessarily lead to successful (i.e. sanctified) marriages and families. We need more than these tactics and strategies. We need to embrace the Covenant Law and the authority of Headship that it grants.

So if you are dealing with a person who is entirely focused on what he/she gets out of your relationship, and who never gives a thought to how they enhance or contribute to your life, then you are dealing with a selfish worldly person. You may want to reconsider how much of yourself you wish to invest in this person.

Likewise, if we are only thinking about a relationship in terms of what we can get out of it, or if we are making a lot of “loving” efforts with the expectation of getting something in return, then we need to reorient our desires to align with the Covenant Law in order to get into the correct frame of mind in which we can recognize the potential for synergy. Instead of lingering in a subjective poverty mentality and/or a works mentality, exercise discernment to detect the superposed synergy that the two of you could achieve. Making this paradigm shift will change the realm of possibilities that we are able to perceive.

Exit Questions

Some questions arise from this, which I’ll pose here.

  1. What does Covenant Law mean to the reader?
  2. What does Covenant Law mean in the context of romantic love and marriage?
  3. Why would we not experience/feel/recognize Covenant Law as God’s love?
  4. Does this mean that husbands should anticipate wives to fail in exercising agency, and arrange reservations or make a Plan B in the event that she does?
  5. If a wife is insufficiently mature enough to exercise moral agency, does this mean that husbands should employ prophecy (e.g. expounding on Biblical principles and how they are applied), and/or knowledge (e.g. Red Pill theory, “Married Game” techniques) to keep their wives in line and feeling loved? Is this what love would require in this case?
  6. Should men who take the Red Pill feel sorry for their past Blue Pill selves? On one hand, true repentance is necessary, but on the other hand, excessive self-pity is not helpful for moving on.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Attitude, Building Wealth, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Churchianity, Communications, Confidence, Conflict Management, Conserving Power, Courtship and Marriage, Desire, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Enduring Suffering, Feminism, Forgiveness, Fundamental Frame, Handling Rejection, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Introspection, Leadership, Legalism, Love, Male Power, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Success, Organization and Structure, Purpose, Relationships, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, Stewardship, The Power of God, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

31 Responses to Love begins where perfection ends

  1. Red Pill Apostle says:

    I’ll tackle exit questions 4-6 as I have failed at all of them in my 18+ years of marriage

    Yes, a husband should expect his wife to fail at exercising agency. I won’t hash out the scriptures, because it’s been done here before. Understanding that your wife being the weaker sex applies to how we handle the stressors and decisions of life is paramount in setting your expectations as a husband. It is better as a husband to be ready to address the idea of personal responsibility and not have to do this than the other way around. Plus men are called to headship which brings us to question 5.

    Men should be guide their wives, using scripture, skill, God given ability, whatever tools they have that do not run afoul of God’s rules to move their wives as close the Proverbs 31 wife as they possibly can. This fits well with her being a helpmeet for his mission. I reject the part of the question that wives need to “feel loved” and replace that with actually “being loved”. Being loved means executing headship in a manner that furthers a wife’s sanctification. This is always loving without the wife necessarily feeling loved in the process. The admonition for a husband to live in an understanding way with his wife applies here, in that he’ll need to meet her where she is at that point in her life. I made the error in my marriage of not setting boundaries and dealing with certain aspects of Mrs. Apostle’s behavior because blue pill me believed the error that trying to make her feel loved was the same as really loving her.

    I look back on my own life and have the temptation to kick myself a little over 17 years of blue pill tendencies. This is a wrong theological approach in light of Romans 8:28. The experiences God had for me were necessary to shape both me and Mrs. Apostle and hopefully bring us to a place where we have a God honoring marriage to serve as a model for our sons. A conversation with Mrs. A a couple days ago serves to highlight this.

    We were discussing what each of us had done in the past. I did not exercise biblical headship in our marriage and set firm expectations and boundaries on her, which led me to care little for her and emotionally pull away in the face of her contentiousness and cruel behavior. (Y’all she was flat out mean at times just to be mean, but only to me, not to anyone else, because Genesis 3:16 is quite true.) At one point I asked her if I had exercised headship would she have followed and her reply was that she would not have. She’d have just fought harder. Looking back she appears to have needed to break from the struggle as much as I did in order to be receptive to God’s design. My blue pill egalitarian view, and hers too, on marriage is what God used to change us. Would I want to go through those experiences again, no. Do I recognize them as aspects of our lives God has used to mold both of us, yes. As such, I will not be so arrogant as to question why God chose to work the way He did.

    Liked by 1 person

    • redpillboomer says:

      “We were discussing what each of us had done in the past. I did not exercise biblical headship in our marriage and set firm expectations and boundaries on her, which led me to care little for her and emotionally pull away in the face of her contentiousness and cruel behavior.”

      This was me too, although my wife’s ‘contentiousness and cruel behavior’ I don’t think rose quite to the level of your wife’s RPA, but it was still there. In looking back, the issue was me in large measure. I didn’t really know how to: “Exercise biblical headship in our marriage and set firm expectations and boundaries on her.” No man ever taught me how, and my dad, was not a Christian, so his exercise of headship left quite a bit to be desires; so, my role model was not the best to emulate.

      I realize now, and I give my self quite a bit of grace in this area, it was a combination of the ‘Adam’ in me, and the Blue Pill conditioning I’d received from society. The ‘Adam in me’ wanted to NOT exercise headship/leadership, just like the first Adam did not do in the garden with his wife that fateful day. The Blue Pill conditioning in me basically thought in egalitarian terms when it came to men and women, especially husbands and wife’s, along the lines of splitting responsibilities, 50-50 if you will. It actually sounded very logical to me split it down the middle, that I had no idea what the second and third order consequences that thinking might produce… no idea.

      I was fortunate that God had my back as I made mistake after mistake, and He seemed to mitigate the effects somewhat. Why He did that for me and seemingly not the same for others, I have no idea. It’s puzzled me for a long time; as in the question to God from me would be, “Why did you intervene the way you did and neutralize a good amount of my Adam-like/Blue Pill conditioning stupidity?” IDK. All I can think of is He was merciful to me. I didn’t avoid all the consequences, just the marital ‘crash and burn’ kind in my marriage and with my kids because He thwarted it.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Boomer – Christian father or non-Christian father, it has not mattered in a couple generations. My family has a paternal line of Christian fathers going back generations and my father bought the chivalry bug and blue pilled me. I think being raised on the idea of chivalrous Christianity actually made it harder to see the truth. I would estimate I read Proverbs, 1 Corinthians 7, 1 Peter 3 and Ephesians 5 one hundred times each and was blind to the truth that is plainly written for all to understand. Those lessons taught to me in my youth were tightly held until there was overwhelming evidence in my personal life that they were not true.

        What has been impressed upon me over the past 18 months or so is that husbands can have more sway over their wives than manosphere popular opinion indicates. It’s not a perfect equation where the husband does A + B and the wife does C every time. It is more like marketing where behaviors are influenced quite obviously in some instances and more subtly in others.

        That “marketing” for a husband is acting like the authority in the relationship without having to say it all the time. I’ve wondered at times why kids listen to their parents (mostly) and have come to the conclusion that they accept parental authority because parents act like the authority (mostly). For me behaving like the authority in the marriage was the missing ingredient. To drive the point home I should have had an easier go of marriage based on the following. She made risky decisions and changed plans for me when we met, I am her N=1 on our wedding night and we married young. None of this saved me from the purgatory of obstinate contentiousness and it only started to change when I started exercising headship. Even poorly executed headship was enough to start changing the marital dynamic and as I’ve gotten more comfortable in my role her changes and compliance have come easier.

        Liked by 1 person

      • caterpillar345 says:

        Redpillboomer said:

        I didn’t really know how to: “Exercise biblical headship in our marriage and set firm expectations and boundaries on her.”

        This is something that I’ve seen mentioned a lot but not expanded on much. I don’t think I understand what it means to have expectations/boundaries and/or how to enforce them. Would some of you men explain what it means to you to have boundaries, give a concrete example or two of what an expectation or boundary in your relationship is, and how you “enforce” it? Can anyone suggest any resources where I might learn more about this?

        Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        Caterpillar,

        “I don’t think I understand what it means to have expectations/boundaries and/or how to enforce them.”

        Welcome to the club. When I was a young man, I was so clueless about boundaries that someone recommended the book, Boundaries, by Cloud and Townsend. I bought this book and read it cover to cover, but I still didn’t have a clue what was going on. Only now that I’m older, am I starting to “get it”.

        “This is something that I’ve seen mentioned a lot but not expanded on much. […] Would some of you men explain what it means to you to have boundaries, give a concrete example or two of what an expectation or boundary in your relationship is, and how you “enforce” it? Can anyone suggest any resources where I might learn more about this?”

        We’re going to figure this out, because I can see this is a major hole in men’s psychology, especially Christian men, just as it was for me.

        Whenever I can “pull one off” successfully, I make a point of writing it up and posting it, like I did in the case study in this post. I have several other posts that describe some of my attempts at “married Game” and setting boundaries. They are listed on a page entitled, “Discipline in Marriage“. It’s in a pull-down menu under “Men” at the top.

        I’m sure there are some men out there who are quite good at setting boundaries and exercising masculine authority in marriage (e.g. Elspeth’s husband, Sam, and Liz’ husband, Mike), but the problem is, it comes naturally to those men and they are not very well aware of what it is they’re doing right. Also, these men are not likely to cast a shadow on Sigma Frame, or any other Christian Red Pill site, because they have a “life”, so to speak (not to imply that we don’t). The guys who can explain it in words, and who carry enough pain to motivate them to spend hours writing essays about it, are guys like me, RPA, and Deti. This is because we learned it the hard way. “No pain, no gain!”

        If you can find a man IRL who has it all together, it’s better to hang out with him and learn by his example. This is something that is “caught”, and is not very easily “taught”. But until that ever happens, reading sites like this one are probably the best thing you’ll find out there.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Caterpillar… Lost on that too for the most part. It does seem to come off like that very, very open ended word called “confidence”.

        Ask 100 women what that word means, and you’ll get 100 different answers depending on the situation. How they feel that day, and WHO is asking them that question……

        I honestly think that men in the faith actually need not a mentor or wingman… but a genuine friend to tell them right from wrong. A person who could correct them. Someone who knows a lot about them, and still likes them for their friendship anyway.

        I am starting to think that the powers that be want everyone confused and isolated. The church proper……. does follow the culture today (sadly) and it’s here as well. “Oh, we’re all a church family”, and so many sit, nod, do the routine, but suffer in silence.

        Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Caterpillar and Lastmod,

        I will do my best to give some concrete examples of expectations and boundaries.

        Deti is well documented as saying to his wife, “This is what I expect from you, and if you don’t, we’re done”, which is a marriage nuclear option threat. It is not recommended you wait so long that the marriage gets to the point of even threatening the nuclear option, but it does happen. There is a lot of room between a supplicating husband that keeps his thoughts, wants, and needs to himself so he doesn’t risk upsetting his wife, and ultimatums for behavior with threats of divorce.

        First, from a Christian standpoint I had to address the authority hierarchy in marriage the way the Bible sets it up. The authority is mine because the responsibility for the family is ultimately mine and God is going to hold me accountable for what I did with what He gave me (wife, sons, assets). This is headship, and the first step in enforcing headship is to act like you have the authority in marriage that God gave you, because you do. If a boss tells you what to do, or if you tell a subordinate what to do, there is an expectation that it will get done. This calm expectation that your instructions will be followed is the mindset and attitude that reinforces authority. Adopting and putting this mindset into action is the first step, and this works with most basic instructions for what you want done.

        Here is a specific expectation that I have set for Mrs. Apostle that I would consider a step above others, due to the seriousness of the matter to me. She’s had a couple auto accidents this year, so now there’s no talking on the phone while driving, even on bluetooth. I want her full attention on the road. She knows if we have to replace her vehicle again she will get something safe and really cheap that meets the basic needs of getting from point A to point B.

        This expectation is one that falls into the deal breaker category for me. There is a long history of Mrs. Apostle getting upset in an argument, losing control of her emotions, and then using that as a justification for verbal/psychological cruelty with little to no restraint on what she’d say. If she is ever to resume this type of behavior, it is a deal breaker for me, and this is why. I asked her to marry me because she was the best friend I had ever had and having that friendship with my wife is the vision I have for my marriage and family. The type of behavior she’s had in the past is a direct hindrance to the openness and honesty required to have the type of relationship I want, hence it’s a deal breaker to the point I’d end the marriage.

        As far as consequences go for not meeting expectations, they are going to be situational and personal preference dependent. This is part of knowing your wife. Some women value physical touch like snuggling. Some women are concerned about appearances and don’t want to be seen in a negative light. Almost all women value time and attention from their husband in one form or fashion. These are just a few examples of things a husband can utilize to reinforce good behavior (more effective strategy), or to check poor behavior (less effective, but necessary at times).

        I hope this helps some.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Okay RPA that was a bit clear…… but Caterpillar I believe doesn’t even have the marriage and kids yet.

        If he indeed wants this or is growing towards it, and he doesn’t have it naturally…… and needs to develop this TO find a wife…. this is where the disconnect I personally believe starts. So… how does one grow this when you’re starting at zero or step one and you’re twenty five, and single and perhaps a few clumsy / awkward dates as late teen, or young man?

        Some will say, “Lead a Bible study” and “grow leadership skills, but work doesn’t count.”

        It’s really challenging to bridge a gap here or find the right words to say, or advice that pushes to a desired outcome. At the same time, with Scott…… taking more of another view of “Well, she has to like you from the start….” So how does one get “there”?

        I really don’t know. Its hard to practice “biblical headship” or grow these aspects when in an established church all the “important roles” are filled (pastor, deacons, elders, praise leader, all around amazing guy, the other leadership roles concerning youth, teens….).

        If indeed Caterpillar is in this situation……. he may want to consider the ol’ “bootstrap” approach. He may have to just prove his worth in the trenches of the church. Food boxes. Helping out with the youth. Attending and being involved with a Bible study. Prayer of course, and growing his faith in that matter……. at the same time, being frank to himself and a confidant about what he wants. A wife. Marriage. Children. Not playing (like I did) the “Oh it’s on God’s timing”, because time flies, and then you’re forty… angry because God’s time never comes. Time is a human invention.

        I would also not get cocky, or arrogant….but don’t let the “Joneses” in church get you down. Popular, good looking young man is dating (and probably nailing) many of the women in church? Good for him. You now know which women you don’t want to date in the future. I learned the hard way….. Sometimes, you have to BE the person someone wants to be with.

        Does a gal want a dish rag? So why do you behave like one? Does a woman want someone who is unsure about everything? So why do you behave like one? Not saying Caterpillar is like this… but these concepts are VERY difficult to apply when you are in a situation that he may be in. 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Lastmod,

        “If he indeed wants this or is growing towards it, and he doesn’t have it naturally…… and needs to develop this TO find a wife…. this is where the disconnect I personally believe starts.”

        I’d actually be wary of trying to develop or improve yourself through church activity, based on your experience and my own. (I was an elder at the church we used to attend.) Where I wish I had started, and what would have been very helpful to me early on, is having a better understanding what masculinity is. You don’t need church, work or to be some leader of men to do this. You will need to be honest and humble enough about yourself to see what you can do to make yourself better, and not in some generic way, in a way that increases your chances of getting what you want from life. For example, if you want to be doctor but have bad MCAT scores, then you know the area you need to improve.

        Since we are addressing marriage and relationships we have to accept that femininity is attracted to masculinity. It’s the way we are made. The issue that I have is that it is hard to quantify what masculinity is succinctly in principle. There are many attributes of masculinity that we have discussed on this forum, such as outcome independence, and it may be that looking at attributes or examples is the best way to attempt to communicate the concept in the comment section.

        You provided a good example of masculine traits in a comment on another post. You mentioned coming up with and presenting a new idea or way to improve the way property management is done at your work. You have the idea, you develop it and you present it to people at work. There are aspects of creativity/creation and improvement that tend to be masculine traits, but what I pick up on is what it takes inside of you to make the presentation happen. You had to know that as a proposal that it could be rejected, but you did it anyway. Many would brush this off as a simple work project, but the same concepts of taking risk, believing in something enough to try to implement it and not letting the fear criticism and rejection stop you from doing what you think is best are at the core of masculinity.

        Depending a man’s self assessment of where he is and where he wants to be there could be multiple areas to work on. For me, and for Mike Davis who recommended the book to me, Robert Glover’s “No More Mr. Nice Guy” was helpful. Specifically, getting over fear/worry/anxiety about the way people would react (outcome independence) if I said what was on my mind or did what I really wanted to do was a big hurdle for me. I still get that anxious feeling in my gut at times and I still mess up at times, but that has been one of the most important changes for me personally and professionally. That little change in my behavior makes me appear more confident to people, along with the internal I get relief from not keeping things bottled up. It’s applicable to all my relationships, not just my marriage.

        This is one example of an area I needed to work and and continue to work on to better exercise dominion over the area of the world God gave me to manage. Other areas I have a better handle on and so I maintain those, while there are still aspects of myself I know need further improvement.

        To sum this up, whether you are a single, dating or married man you still have a vision for what you want in life. Focusing on those areas of masculinity characteristics where self-improvement will further your efforts get what you want out of life has dual benefits. You’ll get more of what you want and in improving yourself you’ll increase your attractiveness to women (if that’s part of your plan). It’s not fool proof, but it certainly improves the odds.

        Liked by 1 person

      • AlexeiKaramazov says:

        I’ll chip in. I’ll walkthrough my personal experience in Lastmod’s point about getting in the trenches since I’m also in the same boat of being a single young adult male trying to handle the same questions. Been teaching youth group for 4 years, and for that time I’ve been teaching the same group of boys who were in middle school at the time. There’s about 10 of them in total, who are mostly upperclassmen in high school now. It’s simple to practice boundary-setting for the guys. One example: I have a no-phones rule in my class. Put them in the basket. If you don’t want to, then you can leave the class. Sometimes I was good at enforcing this, other times bad. One time a student asked why he had to give up his phone. I just stared at him with a raised eyebrow and then he gave me his phone. We laughed about it afterwards. Another time a student said that he saw one of the kids at his school say “no” to the adults and they didn’t do anything about it. Therefore, he wanted to do the same and keep his phone. I let him keep it, which was a mistake. For some reason he never did that again though, so I was lucky that that weakness didn’t get exploited further.

        I do have some guesses as to why I got “lucky,” though. I earned their respect early on in my time as a teacher; we played video games together, and I was much better than all of them. I make every effort to show up in any types of fellowship (sunday service, friday service, retreats, events, hanging out on Discord during the pandemic, etc etc) so I have had plenty of time spent in talking, playing, and working with them to earn their trust. Also crucial is that in asian-american culture, families reinforce submissiveness to authority in raising their children. That fact combined with feminism and blue-pill influences, the boys are much more docile compared to other youth group demographics.

        Setting boundaries has been much trickier with the girls in youth group. As my status among the boys has grown, the girls have likely picked up on that and are explicitly showing me IOIs. It was an uncomfortable reality to deal with at first but Red Pill Theory and knowledge from this website has really gone a long way in explaining these behaviors. An important example of boundary-setting that I have to deal with: one girl makes this effort to start conversations over texting and online messages. I responded with short messages and no emotional reciprocation. This worked, and she stopped trying altogether. The manosphere principle is that girls are looking for the emotional connection and supplication, so refusing to engage sets that boundary between us.

        I have no doubt that the boys will find more rules to challenge and the girls will continue to approach me in different ways. But overall God put me in a great position to continually learn and practice setting boundaries so it’s finally not just theory anymore.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Jack says:

    Since I wrote this post, I had an epiphany.

    10 to 20 years from now, a significant number of men will have faced the fact that Headship = masculine authority = God’s natural order = Covenant Law. They’ll read these old posts and comments and think, “I can’t believe men thought this way back then! No discernment, no wisdom, no wife, no love, no p*ssy, no children… And they were still arguing that masculinity was some kind of attitude or social construct! What a bunch of @sshats! How could they have been so stupid? We have come a long way since 2021!”

    Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      Jack – God’s people have been losing their way to idolatry since forever and God’s grace has been bringing them back since forever. 2 Kings 22-23 is the first example that came to mind of “rediscovery”.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Scott says:

    This is very good, and roughy maps on to my thoughts over the last few years that love, covering a multitude of transgressions is (one of) the ways out of this mess. But it falls flat in the ambient culture because — please make note of this — ONLY MEN are thinking about things on this deep of a level. Women have been conditioned for decades now to give in to the lesser of their natures and this is why the institution of marriage, as a societal prosocial phenomenon is never on their radar.

    When you read sites from supposedly Christian, “conservative” women, like “To love honor and vacuum” it is just the same old, tired, retread of “How can I get what I want out of my marriage?” (Which is a not so subtle way to ask, “How can I get my husband to start behaving the way I want?”)

    There is absolutely no room for that in marriage. Unless and until women, as a whole band together to start holding their sisters accountable to their side of what their husbands need (either by a revival of this kind of thing or by what most reactionaries call the hard reset) ALL marriages will be essentially a LARP. Even the ones that are ostensibly patriarchal are only that way because the wife has decided the role play is working for her. But as soon as she decides its not, you are toast. There is nothing a man in this society can do on an individual level to win at that game.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Scott says:

      And, for anyone who might be tempted to say, “Well, isn’t game the men’s equivalent of ‘How can I get my wife to start behaving the way I want?'” Yes, it is. That’s why ultimately I think game is stupid and manipulative. It is a trained monkey dance that hopes to turn the wife into a sex crazed lunatic.

      She should be a sex crazed lunatic (for you). But if you have to trick her into it, there must be something deeply unsatisfying about that.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Its time to begin the slow clap….

        Last night I had my audition to be on that game show. There is a reason why American TV became the powerful influence it became (though that is changing now as well).

        Reminder, this was just to become a contestant on a TV game show. After arriving and checking in, and sitting in the waiting area with about 20 others, we were sent to make-up. On the small green room stage behind the main set, three cameras rolling. “Okay, look to the left, thank you. To the right. No Jason, to the right! Cut. Rolling! Better.”

        I was then barraged with questions. “Where are you from? No. Say it again with massive enthusiasm! Again. What do you do for a living? Cut. I didn’t know librarians still applied to be on this show? Cut. Again!” On so on….

        TV is plastic, but it doesn’t matter, as long as the image is pushed. That is what it does. That is what its supposed to do. They want everyday people on this show… and that is what they will make them into…. even if they are already that!

        Surreal isn’t it?

        I had to ham it up here and there. I mentioned I could dance, I was then brought in front of everyone to show off steps with no music, glaring lights, and pressure. Yeah. No problem. Easy right?

        I enjoyed myself, and I was content that I am still putting myself out there to try something and take advantage of a location I live in… LA… sure, be an extra / background on a TV show….. try to be on a game show. Studio audience……… I’m glad I tried out. I was told, “You will know in two weeks, if you make the cut and are called for a studio taping.”

        While driving back home, I guess I had a starting concept on the phoniness of this area on a surface level. Always projection. Nothing real. No wonder the skyscrapers in west LA are full of shrinks…….. a necessary evil? The price we pay to live in culture like ours (declining as it is). I don’t have the answer.

        Is everyone expendable? No one has a real friend? So yeah, I guess…. and I don’t like admitting this……. Scott you are probably erring on being right here. If your gal to be really isn’t into you from day one… or within a very short window…….. in today’s dating and marriage world, it probably won’t work.

        Liked by 1 person

    • lastholdout says:

      “Even the ones that are ostensibly patriarchal are only that way because the wife has decided the role play is working for her. But as soon as she decides its not, you are toast. There is nothing a man in this society can do on an individual level to win at that game.”

      In this world, there are three spheres of influence and accountability on a woman (four, if you count the household she was raised in). Her husband/marriage, the Church, and the culture. Within the marriage, we as men can only maintain our own frame. (The primary topic of this blog.) She may choose NOT to be accountable to her husband, but, she WILL be accountable to God for how she treats him. The churchians’ influence has become undifferentiated from the culture and, because they have abandoned the biblical standard, provide no support to husbands in the form of pressing accountability on wives (from the pulpits, books and blogs, or from the counselor’s couch). And, of course, we all know the influence and lack of accountability in the culture.

      The culture has overwhelmed the churchians and, thus, many “Christian” wives. There is not much we can do with the culture, directly. However, the churchians are within reach. Calling them out and making them accountable is more of a duty than anything else. It is an obligation to Christ’s Church that we should assert. It is time to turn up the heat on those in our local churches and those that are outside our localities and reach into our homes to our wives and daughters through various media.

      Liked by 1 person

    • lastholdout says:

      A throwback from a post Jack made in 15-Nov-2017, Conflict Structure and Marital Satisfaction:

      “ It is most advantageous to the longitudinal health and happiness of the relationship when men lead, and women follow. The next best outcome results when a man fails to lead, but the woman nevertheless still follows (through her faith in God). Poor outcomes leading to marital discord, dissolution and divorce are the inevitable result when the woman fails to follow, regardless of the man’s intervention, or lack thereof.”

      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2017/11/15/conflict-structure-and-marital-satisfaction/

      Liked by 1 person

    • lastholdout says:

      And one of my favorites from Matthew Henry providing insightful perspective of the prudent wife of Proverbs 19:14:

      ”A discreet and virtuous wife is a choice gift of God’s providence to a man: A wife that is prudent, in opposition to one that is contentious, ver. 13. For though a wife that is continually finding fault, may think it is her wit and wisdom to be so, it is really her folly; a prudent wife is meek and quiet, and makes the best of every thing. If a man has such a wife, let him not ascribe it to the wisdom of his own choice, or his own management, for the wisest have been deceived, both in and by a woman, but let him ascribe it to the goodness of God, who made him a help meet for him, and, perhaps by some hits and turns of providence, that seemed casual brought her to him. Every creature is what He makes it. Happy marriages we are sure are made in heaven.”

      Liked by 2 people

  4. RIchardP says:

    For Caterpillar – an expansion on the questions he asked:

    “Well, isn’t game the men’s equivalent of ‘How can I get my wife to start behaving the way I want?’ Empirical evidence shows that women will respond this way to a certain set of male behaviors, and will respond that way to a different set of male behaviors. At it’s most basic, “game” is simply learning what behaviors from men will elicit a particular response from women.

    I have a sister that is 9 years older than I am. Which means that, when I was in high school, she had already experienced life a bit (nothing risque; she just had some experience as an adult, where I had none).

    We were having a conversation while I was in high school. Out of the blue to me, but obviously not to her, she said Women are responders. Men have to give them something to respond to.

    I rejected that out of hand, because “agency”. How does “agency” and “sit there until someone gives you something to respond to” co-exist in the same person?

    As I’ve grown older, I’ve had to accept that my sister’s statement is more true than not. It is still my impulse to resist accepting that her statement is more true than not. But life experience has caused me to re-evaluate several memes I was taught in Sunday School. Probably would have helped if I had been taught in Sunday School what I am about to say here.

    God saw that Adam was alone, and that it was not good for him, and so made a proper and fitting (meaning of the old english word “meet”) help for him.
    God told Eve that her man would rule over her. That is, she would be part of his group of possessions that he was to “husband” (again, old english term; look up old english definitions of “husbandry”, “to husband”)
    In a discussion at Red Pill Girl’s place some time ago, we were discussing things in the ballpark of “agency”. I don’t remember the specifics. But Ame commented that she needed her man to set boundaries for her by telling her what she could do and what she could not do (paraphrased, but in the proper ballpark of what she said). I, being fairly new to all of these conversations, asked her what if the answer was “do anything that you want to”? She responded that, no, that would not provide the sense of security she was after. She needed to know exactly how far she could go on a multitude of issues before her behavior would elicit an angry response from her man. I was about to deliver some snarky response squarely from the middle of “agency” territory, when Points 1 and 2 above hit me square between the eyes. That truely was my time of running smack into the wall of enlightenment.

    Of course Ame does not feel secure until her man tells her what she can do and what she can not do. Point 1 and 2 above tell us that Ame was created to have exactly that need.

    I ask Caterpillar to consider the distinction between the help and the helped. What does the helped do? (pursue mission) What does the help do? (help with the pursuit of mission) Can the help do what she was created to do if the helped does not do what he is supposed to do. That is, the help cannot be that to the helped unless he tells her what he needs her to do for him. That process of the helped telling his help what he needs from her in order to him to carry out his mission is the process of setting boundaries. Her responding to what the helped has asked her to do is the fulfilling of what she was created to be. A help, proper and fitting for him.

    It took longer for me to type that last paragraph than it took for the truth of what Ame said to hit me. In my “unenlightened” state I was getting set to debate from the land of “agency”. When Ame spoke her piece, it only took a nanosecond for me to see that she was speaking from the land of Points 1 and 2 above. The exercising of her agency was to choose to behave from the position she was created to be – the help. The exercising of his agency would be to give her what she needs from him in order to be his help – that which she was created to be: instructions and boundaries.

    My older sister and I were having a conversation while I was in high school. Out of the blue to me, but obviously not to her, she said Women are responders. Men have to give them something to respond to.

    Think on the playing out of Points 1 and 2 above, and see if you don’t end up thinking she was correct.

    A wife is to exercise agency from the land of being the help. A husband is to exercise agency from the land of being the helped. Two different lands, with two very different sets of behaviors required. So, of course, the exercising of agency is going to look different in each of the two different lands.

    This is what I am trying to do. These behaviors from you will help me in the pursuit of that mission. All these other behaviors will inhibit me in the pursuit of that mission.

    Instructions for how you can help me = the setting of boundaries. Laid out there pretty simply in Genesis, in the Creation story.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Joe2 says:

      Once I attended a Christian singles mingle. There was a good ratio of guys to gals, self-serve buffet style food, paper plates with cups and tables for eating and conversation.

      It was very easy to meet and talk to the girls, presumably who were marriage minded. It seemed they went out of their way to be friendly, but it was extremely difficult to determine whether they had a genuine interest, were gold diggers or were just being polite trying to make a good appearance.

      I told the girl I was with that I would appreciate if she would get a cup of coffee for me while I made a trip to the men’s room. When I returned, there was no coffee. She said that I could have gotten my own coffee on my way back to the table. I got my own coffee and never returned to the table. And she is supposed to be a help meet? I don’t think so.

      Liked by 3 people

  5. RIchardP says:

    OK – I’ve been hit by that WordPress idiocyncracy again.

    I created Points One, Two, and Three in the paragraph above that begins with God saw that Adam was alone …

    Point One – begins with “God saw that Adam was alone …”

    Point Two – begins with “God told Eve that her man would rule over her.”

    Point Three – begins with “In a discussion at Red Pill Girl’s place some time ago, …”

    Like

  6. Red Pill Apostle says:

    Take the two quotes and put their logic together.

    Lastholdout:
    “In this world, there are three spheres of influence and accountability on a woman (four, if you count the household she was raised in). Her husband/marriage, the Church, and the culture. Within the marriage, we as men can only maintain our own frame.”

    RichardP:
    “…..she said Women are responders. Men have to give them something to respond to.”

    I find the sentiments expressed in the quotes from each man to be very true and when put together shed some light on dealing with contentious wives. I have had many many conversations with Mrs. Apostle over the years combating “but all of my girlfriends …” or “but the churchian preacher says …” type arguments. What I believe is part of the change in our relationship is that my influence on her life has increased relative to culture. Part of this is due to what Jack has written about with the husband initiating conflict and how that has worked to highlight the authority of headship.

    What I have learned from this is that husbands can have more sway over their wives than then think they do. Following churchian teaching about marriage is almost certain to neuter husbandly authority by convincing him not to initiate the types of behavior she’ll react positively to.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. anonymous_ng says:

    IMO, one of the most important things men need to do, maybe all people is decide who you are and what you believe etc. I don’t mean to take off and be a hippie while you go find yourself, but if you don’t know how you like your eggs, maybe you’re going to pretend that you like them however someone else thinks you should like them.

    See the scene from Runaway Bride.

    If you’re not secure in yourself, if you’re deathly afraid of losing the woman who is provide that massive shot of external validation to your self-worth, how are you ever going to set boundaries?

    That was my story anyway.

    RichardP wrote something to the effect of how can the woman be a helper when the man isn’t telling her what things he needs her to help with? Good question. Another good question is if a man is just existing, why does he even need a helper? Maybe men also need to be more purposeful in life since most aren’t going to have a grand purpose. IDK.

    As for improving one’s self, I would recommend Karaoke and Toastmasters to get over the fear of public speaking which just might make talking to attractive women a bit easier.

    Here’s a video that I think speaks to the good things about pickup that isn’t about manipulation.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Lastmod says:

      Well done. I watched the whole thing. Stil disagree on most of his take on PUA / Game……but he did his homework, and it is a well produced, researched and well done video.

      Like

  8. Ed Hurst says:

    Jack is right about one thing: I don’t think of it as Red Pill. I always think of it as adhering to the Covenant. The boundaries are written into Creation itself, if you ask me. Again, I’ll admit that I’m an edge case, an extremist, even. I was already well down this path before I got married, so for marriage to happen at all required a miracle of finding a woman who wasn’t interested in feminism.

    I seriously doubt that I would have gotten married had it not been for her. My wife believes what I believe; she regards the Covenant as binding on her beyond this life. She isn’t looking for an escape route. It’s not as if her feminist mother never provoked her to do stupid things early in our marriage, but it never worked. Each time, one response from me is all it took and she tossed it in the trash. It’s never been violent, but she knew it could mean I would be out the door and gone if she didn’t respond as I expected. For her, that would have been worse than death, because she considers herself assigned to me by God.

    I’m not sure I could teach that to anyone who wasn’t already inclined in the same direction. I suppose you’d have to see it in action over a period of time, especially when things are going hard for us.

    Liked by 2 people

    • redpillboomer says:

      “I’m not sure I could teach that to anyone who wasn’t already inclined in the same direction.”

      Agree. The secular saying, “You can’t turn a ho into a housewife” may apply here with a Christian twist to it, “You can’t change a nominal, church going female into a Covenant keeping woman.” Many years ago in my blue pill stupidity, I thought I could do this with my churchian girlfriend at the time. My reasoning was, “Well, she attends church most Sundays, she brings a Bible with her and it sits in her lap during service, and she says she reads it, aka has a quiet time, ergo she’d make a good ‘Christian wife.’ ” I didn’t know the difference between a Covenant keeping woman, i.e. a woman who’s relationship is with God first and foremost, and in turn, she also honors her marital vows and her husbands headship. Fortunately for me, my churchian girlfriend, who I thought was going to be my wife, dumped me to go back to living a secular lifestyle following the ‘Feminist life script.’ I later found out her life ended up being the proverbial train wreck.

      Liked by 2 people

  9. caterpillar345 says:

    Thanks for the replies here so far. It’s given me some things to think about.

    I had an experience recently that might be an example of setting and defending a boundary or expectation. I was driving on a road trip and had my sister along riding shotgun. I asked for an apple and as she grabbed it out of the bag to hand it to me, she took a bite out of it, presumably as a playfully annoying little sister prank. I decided at that moment I didn’t want 90% of an apple, I wanted a whole apple, so I refused to take it. She refused to eat it and hand me a different apple with refrains of “There’s nothing wrong with it, just eat it!” I continued to press the issue and our back and forth was causing both of us to laugh because of how silly and petty it was. Between gasps of laughter, I accused her of being manipulative and she accused me of being petty. I didn’t really care that the apple had a bite out of it and was perfectly willing to eat it, but I realized I had drawn an arbitrary boundary and now had to defend it or risk losing respect in a small way, even with my sister. I also realized that if I continued to press the issue without resolving it somehow (or allowing for a resolution), the amused laughter between us would soon turn into hurt feelings and petty resentment (which there is plenty of history with in our family). So I decided I would take it if she would apologize for being a mean little sister. After a few protests from her and some additional laughter between us she offered what sounded like a sincere apology and I took the apple. We came away from it with laughter, a good story, and a little inside joke about “the small things in life.”

    Who knows if it really meant anything — it was just an apple after all — but it seemed significant to me in some small way. I know based on other words and actions from her prior to and since this example that she respects me as her brother. But it nevertheless seemed like a growth opportunity for me in a small way.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      Caterpillar,
      I think your story is a great example of exercising frame. We might be tempted to regard your response as petulant or childish, but that would be a disservice to the authentic expression of your desire. You are making your wishes evident and you are telling her what you want, and this is very important for a man. Yes, we might be tempted to dismiss wanting a whole apple as a small thing, but it’s the small things like this that count. Older people have often told me that when they look back on their lives, they remember the little things, not the big things. The proof of all this is that it made the trip fun and memorable. If you make a regular habit of doing things like this, it will definitely lead to more confidence and a stronger frame in the future.

      Like

  10. locustsplease says:

    This post focuses on a major problem between the sexes. The market is flooded with women looking for extreme outliers of positive male qualities with low tolerance for the smallest flaw. Then there is the women. The reality is most men count themselves lucky if the women provide no value. Because the reality is the majority of them are net negatives in most or all categories.

    My ex wife was one. She didn’t have a list of 5 things she should do to keep me that she was working on. “No, your bad attitude and lack of affection does not motivate nor help me.” She actually thought this like most American women do.

    I’m sure this has always been lopsided because of gender differences, but today it’s completely out of control. I was just looking for someone who was moderately attractive, not disrespectful, and who could sexually satisfy me. She intentionally failed at all of these things. Her list for me grew every day. And it’s all or nothing. If you don’t meet every vanity standard, then you’re a bag of hot trash.

    One time she swooned about a celebrity and I told her I’m more attractive than that guy. We looked up his stats. The guy was 5″ shorter than me and no where near as muscular. We talked and I said, “If he wasn’t a celebrity and we both walked into the room, who would the women want?” and we agreed it’s not gonna be that guy. But well, today we have to compete with millionaires who don’t work and we only get to see a perfect polished version of them where they read funny lines on TV. Winning this kind of competition is not possible.

    Women who are net negatives do not deserve men who are attractive millionaires.

    Like

  11. feeriker says:

    “Women who are net negatives do not deserve men who are attractive millionaires.”

    You’ve just expressed the ultimate in heretical badthink against the gynarchy. Your post has been flagged by the Twasi, your IP address captured, and a FISA warrant about to be served on your ISP. Get yourself ready for the gulag.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Pingback: Developing Discernment | Σ Frame

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