The Meet Cute Experience as a Selection Model

The Meet Cute is an authentic selection model fitting the Tingly Respect (Headship) structure.

Readership: All
Theme: Dating and the SMP
Reader’s Note: In this essay, the term “Selection Model” is used to mean a way for young singles who are interested in marriage to identify potential others.
Length: 2,400 words
Reading Time: 8 minutes

Background

We’ve covered the Meet Cute phenomenon in several past posts.

Also, the Meet Cute is a fundamental part of A Volitional Model of Cascade Courtship (2021-11-15).

Introduction

Scott wrote this about the Meet Cute experience,

A “meet cute” is the American, socially normative way that couples meet and it doesn’t matter if you are “Christian” or not. All efforts to combat it, to attack it, to change it on a massive scale have failed to date. Move to a commune, use Joshua Harris “kissed dating goodbye” methods, whatever–as soon as you tell THAT story to your friends, you are an oddball freakshow overly religious couple who don’t have a meet cute story. Ewwwwwww.

Now, this has implications that either…

Christianity in America has become so indistinguishable, even on this very important issue so as to make it irrelevant as force on earth.

–or–

There is some way to make Meet Cutes fit into a hybrid Christian model that is still God-honoring and holy (enough) to be pleasing to Him when He sees it.

We already know that the first option is true. However, this essay will hone in on Scott’s last sentence, and investigate whether the Meet Cute can serve as a Christian approach to dating/courtship/marriage.

First of all, let’s see if it actually fits the Christian mold.

A description of the Meet Cute as a Selection Model

Among Ed Hurst’s archives, I found what appears to be a description of a Meet Cute as a basic selection model.  But that’s not all.  Ed also described why it’s better for the woman to choose the man, and how that glorifies God. Ed is writing from a Christian viewpoint.

“Our men are conditioned to focus on the lust of the eyes and of the flesh. They are taught to pretend they aren’t paying attention to that, but I can promise you that pink Cadillacs and the glitzy cosmetic barn paint that they represent do not convey God’s way of projecting femininity. Just as manhood is not confined merely to muscles but morals, so womanhood is not enticing by cultural sexual attraction. Here’s a clue: It’s the male peacock who struts his stuff and the females who choose their mates. We have it backwards.

Men, you do not pick your woman. That’s because you have zero capability to choose wisely until way too late in life. She’s ready to make babies by the time you have your first clue where God might be leading you. Our society frowns on men waiting until they are ready and taking a young wife, and we have zero cultural background for a community mate selection system, so we are left with letting her choose her man. She is better equipped to work out where she fits best, so the men need to keep their focus of projecting moral dominance. If you pursue the gal, it’s virtually guaranteed you won’t lay hold of God’s best blessings in marriage. Make her choose you. She will let you know if she is ready to take you on. How that communication takes place is subject to a very wide range of variables. You may be the one to initiate all the conversation and social contacts, but it’s up to her make the first signals, however subtle they may be.

That’s how you glorify God; sex on that path can’t get any better in this life.”

Radix Fidem: God’s Revelation on Sex (2014 October 21)

This confirms many of the conclusions we reached through our own discussions here about the Meet Cute, and were summarized in the post, On the Significance and Value of the Meet Cute Experience (2020-4-3).

Ontological Contexts of Meeting Someone

A previous post, “Biblical” Models of Courtship (2018-9-30) described three bare basic types of courtship models.  These three types are briefly described below.

  1. “Love” – Passionate, blind, feral instincts: e.g. Jacob and RachelDavid and BathshebaAmnon and Tamar. Also, dates, ONS’s, hook-ups, etc. which develop into LTR’s might fall into this category.
  2. Arranged – The union is proscribed by parents, family, authorities, a decree, or by social customs, such as Judaic law: e.g. Jacob and LeahRuth, and Esther, Chinese filial piety, Indian match maker, etc.
  3. Contrived – God plays a direct or indirect part in bringing two people together. e.g. Isaac and Rebecca

Ed has described three possible avenues towards a God-honoring marriage. He emphasizes that in all three systems, men need to retain their focus on projecting moral dominance (e.g. moral guidance based feedback).  I have summarized these systems and added names as follows.

  1. Roman Holiday — Men can wait until they are ready (presumably in his mid-30s) and then take a younger wife. There are many benefits of this approach. One is that both are in their SMV peak and are likely to form a well-matched couple. Another is that it allows the man to choose freely as opposed to taking whatever comes along, or whatever he can get. The difficulty in implementing this approach is that it is not socially acceptable in the West.
  2. A community-based mate selection system — (Here, “community” could include, but not be limited to church.) I imagine this would resemble what we think of being an arranged marriage or modern courtship. But we might be able to come up with something that functions the same, but which has a different form.
  3. Meet Cute — Let natural feminine intuition and IOI’s determine the best pairings. The benefits of this approach have been discussed above.

Putting it All Together

Now let’s compare Ed’s three avenues towards Christian marriage with the three types of “Biblical” courtship models above. We find that…

  1. The Roman Holiday model strongly matches the Love model, but it could also be Arranged or Contrived.
  2. A community-based selection system could possibly involve more than one, or all three of the Biblical models (Love, Arranged, or Contrived). Of note, I imagine this system could be developed and modified to include many of the advantageous features of the others.
  3. A Meet Cute could also possibly involve more than one, or all three of the Biblical models (Love, Arranged, or Contrived).

Putting this all together, in total, that’s 9 different possibile ways that a Christian couple could meet and progress towards marriage! (Granted, some ways are more Christian than others.)

These 9 ways are…

  1. Roman Holiday + Love
  2. An Arranged Roman Holiday (e.g. the boss befriends you and introduces you to his daughter)
  3. A Roman Holiday Contrived by the Holy Spirit
  4. Finding love within a Community (through participating in community service or other group activities)
  5. Community Matchmaking
  6. God Contrives a meeting within a Community (e.g. meeting someone on a mission trip, serving together in the worship team, etc.)
  7. Have a Meet Cute by chance and fall in love (Scott’s normative description, and this would require one to be somewhat of a social butterfly)
  8. Arranged Meet Cute (most attempts would probably be a hit or miss)
  9. Have a Meet Cute that is orchestrated by God somehow.

This is just a list of the basic set ups, but the particular combinations, contexts, settings, and situations are practically endless. A marriage minded man would do well to put himself in places where he could avail of as many of these opportunities as possible.

Is a Meet Cute from God?

Only God can grant us a successful marriage. As Christians who believe in the sovereignty of God, if we believe that chance encounters are arranged, or orchestrated by God, then this presents a strong argument that avenues 7, 9, and possibly 8 in the last list are from God. IOW, a Meet Cute in any of these three contexts could be from God, given certain limits. Readers who find this conclusion controversial may disagree and discuss below in the comments, but I do think there is a strong case for this to be true. If true, then this vastly magnifies the importance of men learning to read IOIs!

In support of this proposition, Scott pointed out that even years later, a couple’s Meet Cute story takes on a mythological grandiosity, because women use it to determine the “authenticity” of the relationship.

He wrote,

“Wives care about the story of how you met, not husbands

It is the narrative filter they (and their envious single friends) use to decide if it is “true love”

The story itself holds a magical/mystical power over the legitimacy of the relationship. It must a sufficient amount of fateful-bumped-into-my-soulmate aura around it to be a true love story.”

It sounds confusing to men, but I wouldn’t be surprised if women truly believe that a “valid” Meet Cute is Contrived by God.  It also makes me wonder whether a relationship will be socially “approved”, if a couple does not have a story worthy enough to convince others of their relationship’s “authenticity”.

Benefits of Using the Meet Cute as a Selection Model

Scott has counted several benefits of the Meet Cute. Perhaps the most sigificant benefit from a Christian perspective is that it forms an organic Tingly Respect relationship immediately from the get go. Because of the nature of the Tingly Respect model, the woman respects the man from her heart, and so there is little argument or resistance to the man’s authority from the woman, as compared to other Archetype models. In addition, she is enthusiastic about sexual relations too, which is healthy and proper. In other words, authentic Headship, which is of primary importance in forming a relationship that glorifies God and receives His abundant blessings over the union, comes naturally and spontaneously. This alone poses a strong justification for using the Meet Cute as a selection model.

Perhaps the best part of adopting the Meet Cute as a vehicle of selection is that it’s simple to do. All that men have to do is learn how to read IOIs and how to respond to them appropriately. Granted, this takes a bit of practice, but it does allow a man to depend on himself and on God to make things happen. He doesn’t have to depend so much on a Christian community and the efforts and good will of others, and this aspect may be crucial when considering the fallen age in which we live.

Pay attention, men! Knowing the difference can mean a lifetime of pain, regret, and sorrow (left), or a lifetime of hot honeymuffin lovin’ (right).

Problems with Using the Meet Cute as a Selection Model

In my experience, women are either hot to go, or not at all. And the ones who are hot for a man move pretty fast. By that I mean, once they decide on a man, they immediately proceed to have sexual relations. But if the man of their interest turns down their invitations to have sex, they tend to drop him immediately. So if men who are conscientiously marriage minded come across a woman like this, then this will be a source of intense temptation and frustration for him.

Now before we jump to the conclusion that women who move fast are just bad girls, we need to remember that this strong desire is exactly what qualifies her. Her heart felt passion is what makes the Meet Cute cute! As I’ve gotten older, and especially after taking the Red Pill, I’ve come to see that most women are like that, but only with certain men of course. Women have different preferences for different men, and if she’s feeling really hot for a particular guy, then she’ll move fast. (In today’s world, there isn’t much to stop them from acting on impulse.) So here, you’ll want to make sure that you are that certain man, and that she’s not just looking for sex with anyone.

Instead of feeling angry or disappointed that women are this way, we might do better to recognize that this is just how they are. We might even entertain the idea that God Himself created women to be c0ck crazy for (one) man. In response, men should attempt to get these women to think very seriously about marriage and preparing for the future.

I’m sure there are some women who don’t give off IOIs and don’t move fast. The best reason is because of inexperience, but it could also be because they are more self-aware, or more conscientious, or too proud to express their desire, or something else, but I think they are a minority. Some of these women might be better suited for marriage to certain men, but the Meet Cute model doesn’t really take them into account, and it’s really hard to identify them otherwise.

Conclusions

Before the turn of the century, the Meet Cute was the normative way that many couples got together. However, it was never considered to be a Christian approach to relationships and marriage. Perhaps now we should reconsider the Meet Cute as a very authentic, healthy, natural, and organic approach towards achieving a Christian marriage — one that is, by definition, characterized by Headship and God’s blessings of bonding, joy, peace, sanctification, and sexual fulfillment.

Scott said that he has adopted the Meet Cute as a courtship model for his own children. He wrote,

“I am leaning toward number two for my own kids. I am trying to make sure they have plenty of exposure to Christians of the opposite sex whose parents more or less agree with me about marriage and its purpose. We actually discuss this with our friends who kids around the same age as ours openly.”

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Attraction, Building Wealth, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Collective Strength, Courtship and Marriage, Decision Making, Desire, Passion, Discernment, Wisdom, Faith Community, Female Power, Headship and Patriarchy, Indicators of Interest, Love, Meet Cute, Organization and Structure, Purpose, Relationships, Strategy, The Power of God. Bookmark the permalink.

15 Responses to The Meet Cute Experience as a Selection Model

  1. Lastmod says:

    The problem today is that a good swath of men (from my generation when I was younger… Gen X) are not getting IOI’s, and even more (dare I say a dangerous level) of younger men today are getting none as well. So, it may be “well and good” for a man to learn to read IOI’s….. but a large portion are not getting them and never will.

    Liked by 3 people

    • locustsplease says:

      This is a big problem. I know several virgin 30yo men. They make six figures and are not unattractive enough that it should have made them virgins. They basically got ignored by women long enough that now they cannot read womens intentions. They can’t tell between smiles, being nice, and flirting. They don’t know how to toss the ball and see how the cat plays with it. Oddly, I know guys with much less going for themselves who do not have problems.

      I have noticed this with myself. I got plenty of women in my early 20s, then settled down with x at 25. Now that I’ve been single and celibate for 7 years it’s getting harder to tell. I get plenty of hard advances, but if I didn’t it would be much harder. If I didn’t have my stature and I was a virgin, I would be drawing blanks in dealing with women socially.

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Thank you. You said it in a way that I am not smart enough to articulate. I know men like this (and my younger self) just had to “learn game” and “go to the gym”, or else we “must like being blue pilled cucks.”

        The issue is much deeper than that, and you said it very well. Thank you.

        Liked by 3 people

  2. redpillboomer says:

    “Before the turn of the century, the Meet Cute was the normative way that many couples got together. However, it was never considered to be a Christian approach to relationships and marriage. Perhaps now we should reconsider the Meet Cute as a very authentic, healthy, natural, and organic approach towards achieving a Christian marriage — one that is, by definition, characterized by Headship and God’s blessings of bonding, joy, peace, sanctification, and sexual fulfillment.”

    Interesting read here. I think meeting my wife was a combo of 3. A Roman Holiday Contrived by the Holy Spirit and 9. Have a Meet Cute that is orchestrated by God somehow. It sounds super spiritual, but at the time it didn’t occur that way to me, just in retrospect since being RP’d and immersing myself in relationship study. The immersing caused me to look back on what happened to me to make sense of it. In looking back, I did a few things right, and God made up the difference in the areas I didn’t do because I didn’t get it. (But He did!) He knew the real, fallen female nature for instance where I was semi-clueless (BP mindset).

    In looking back decades later, a few of things facilitated the whole process: 1) I was 30, she was 21. I was ready and wanted to be married. I was tired of being single, and I was tired of doing it ‘God’s way,’ i.e. trying to date and not have sex, being a “good Christian man” and having NOTHING of lasting consequence happen with women, and not understanding why because I thought I was doing everything the “Right (as in the righteous) way;” 2) She had the tingles and gave off subtle, but fairly obvious IOIs. I still had to act on them, but when I did, things moved along rapidly; 3) She was willing to leave her single life, or as the Manospherian trope says, “Cash in her chips and leave the Casino.”

    In all of that, God seemed to be guiding the process. If there is any lesson from it to a young Christian man of today, I’d say work on your relationship with God, work on yourself to become the ‘best version of you’ possible, and be patient (these days, you’re still young at 30, 35, or even late thirties)… AND, learn all this Red Pill knowledge you can from Christian men. The secular RP men can be helpful in describing female nature and it’s antics, but a lot of them I think, in my opinion, are still secretly lusting for Stacy and Amber. They’d like a turn or two on the S&A Carousel before they age out of S&A’s consideration (unless they are rich and famous and S&A might gold dig them, few of them seem to be in this category though).

    It seems much more difficult these days than when I was doing it back in the late 1980s, but God is still God and he can cause it to happen. I live in an area, middle of Georgia, where I see a good number of Christian marriages of twenty somethings and thirty somethings. All seem to be doing fairly well and they all have younger children they’re raising. So, as bleak as it is out there, as Black Pill as we seem to describe it, there is hope. However, one thing I think the young Christian men desperately need is RP knowledge. They need to have a grasp of fallen female nature, and especially fallen female nature in this modern day, social media saturated, hook-up culture we live in. That is one BIG DIFFERENCE than I had it back-in-the-day, no Internet yet, no dating apps, no Instagram, Tik Tok, etc.

    The women all seem to be lamenting, “Where have all the good men gone?” I think the men, the decent men, not the players, can equally lament, “Where have all the good girls gone? Are there any good, marriage-minded, ‘girl next doors’ still out there?” They’re out there, but I think the Christian men are really going to need for God to be their ‘Wingman’ in this endeavor.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Lastmod says:

      Meet Cute is a thing of the past, Meet Cute isn’t Christian, and Meet Cute won’t work.

      I was in college in the late 1980’s. The Meet Cute worked because people had to go out to “meet people” back then. In college, you had to go out into your dormitory (residence hall) or to other ones on campus. You had to actually go out to activities on campus. You actually had to be social. Today, you don’t. Well, women don’t. Men still have to do a gazillion things, even according to Red Pill, and yet they still have their whole life planned out by the time they are 11.

      For those who couldn’t go out, or who couldn’t find a Meet Cute, there were the “personals” in that local city / alternative college-rag newspaper. The kind that had ads for futons, the local alternative music store, Indian food… That kind of paper. Some of those personals back then were downright hilarious to read. It was only a few lines, but it could say so much. Remember SWM26/ISO/SWF20x35/NS/ND…. ? LOL!

      Before that, in small town America through the Victorian Era, many were pushed by families to marry “such and such” a person. Just about all marriages in Christendom were either arranged, or setup by family within one’s class / status. No one was really choosing.

      And well before that, in the Rennaissance and Feudal / Medieval Europe, peasants (who were 99% of the population) had to get PERMISSION to marry from the local Lord, Burgher, Count, or Viscount.

      One did not “hang out in the temple courts” after church services. One did not go to a youth group to meet a gal or guy.

      So you’re right that Meet Cute was never considered as a Christian approach. But it can’t be either. Just like being “good looking” gives license today, the Meet Cute gives people PERMISSION to “play the field and test drive”.

      Meet Cute doesn’t work for the vast majority of men because most women find most men “ugly or below average”.

      And the even stranger thing was that, not even twenty years ago, most of these men who are now deemed “ugly / below average men” were considered decent and okay looks-wise back then.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Also…

        Meet Cutes can no longer be sustained in the modern world…. not only because of feminism and the breakdown of the SMP, but also because the societal and economic standards of what enables Meet Cutes, which is mostly based on impressions, counts more than the actual substance of character.

        The rise of Meet Cute in “western culture” or “first worlders” (including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong) happened because a larger number of people a higher standard of living. This gave more people more leisure time to go out and socialize with others.

        When teenage boys don’t have to worry about finding clean water for their families, or walking miles to the local market to haggle for some rotting potatoes…

        When their biggest problem of the day is if they are going to skip gym class and smoke cigarettes behind the bleachers…

        When teenage girls have no worries about “that time of the month” (and said in a 1950’s housewife’s voice) “down there” (LOL). (BTW, I lived in India for a while. Let me tell you, “that time” for women in poorer nations without the proper santiation is messy, smelly, and actually IS a BIG issue.)

        When young people DON’T have to worry about BASICS like this, Meet Cutes will happen more, or should I say, Meet Cutes are ENABLED to happen more often in those respective cultures.

        Nowadays, we have a smaller number of people who have a higher standard of living than their parents did. When a house built in California in 1968 now goes for almost or OVER a million dollars in most parts of Los Angeles, Tokyo, London, Berlin, Vancouver… and even in places like Austin, Texas… few men will be able to have a Meet Cute that will take them to the next level of domestic bliss… especially when the attitude of most women AND men today is, “If the marriage doesn’t work, we’ll just get divorced.” Men might still have leisure time to go out and socialize, but fewer and fewer men can meet the basic requirements that are necessary to form the expected impression that would draw IOIs and spark a Meet Cute, and those who can are blissfully unaware of exactly why it works. Most men nowadays can’t even read IOIs!

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Joe2 says:

    “He knew the real, fallen female nature for instance where I was semi-clueless (BP mindset).”

    I’m reminded of a Mae West quote regarding the fallen female nature which is true today as it was during the depression-era when Mae West was a hugely popular star. She said, “There are no good girls gone wrong — just bad girls found out.” Mae West certainly wasn’t clueless.

    My life’s experience has taught me that some guys are winners and others are losers and there is not very much that can be done to change that. I’ve experienced various social settings such as mixed bible studies, going with a group to another church to play their sports team, or going with a group to hear a prominent speaker at a Christian service; all of which provided opportunities to mix with and meet different girls. It became painfully obvious that certain guys (the winners) garnered the attention of the girls that were there while other guys (the losers) were ignored or experienced typical pleasantries. The girls knew what they wanted and moved quickly, etc. No doubt a lot of guys just gave up and dropped out. In their situation, looking for IOI’s is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

    Liked by 2 people

    • @ Joe

      “My life’s experience has taught me that some guys are winners and others are losers and there is not very much that can be done to change that. I’ve experienced various social settings such as mixed bible studies, going with a group to another church to play their sports team, or going with a group to hear a prominent speaker at a Christian service; all of which provided opportunities to mix with and meet different girls. It became painfully obvious that certain guys (the winners) garnered the attention of the girls that were there while other guys (the losers) were ignored or experienced typical pleasantries. The girls knew what they wanted and moved quickly, etc. No doubt a lot of guys just gave up and dropped out. In their situation, looking for IOI’s is like looking for a needle in a haystack.”

      Maybe.

      I’m convinced that if Churches were actually truthful about what men and women liked there would be at least some of the “losers” who would see and want to start becoming more attractive. I know I would have back if I was in high school and found about it. I had the same interest from high school to college and then around mid 20s when I found RP / Christian RP. I just had no one to tell me those things.

      I’ve talked to several men in high school and college over the years, and while some don’t take the RP advice (explained in a way that Christians won’t reject it, i.e. without RP terminology), there are definitely others who have and are in relationships now. So while some won’t take it or at least may not be mature enough to take it, there are definitely some who will grab onto the life preserver if you throw it to them, instead of continuing to drown.

      Liked by 3 people

  4. cameron232 says:

    One thing that seems very unfair is the preselection thing. For those of us who got lucky and happened upon a girl who’s really into us, it’s useless to have IOIs from other girls. If those could somehow be doled out to other, still waiting men, that would be good and fair. I guess the world doesn’t work that way.

    Like

    • @ cameron

      “One thing that seems very unfair is the preselection thing. For those of us who got lucky and happened upon a girl who’s really into us, it’s useless to have IOIs from other girls. If those could somehow be doled out to other, still waiting men, that would be good and fair. I guess the world doesn’t work that way.”

      There’s lots of variations of this that work though.

      If you have male friend being a wingman for you, then you can generate interest in some women. I’ve seen it first hand from other guys doing it for me (inadvertently) and me doing it for others some. The same is true of just being generally more sociable and having lots of friends including women.

      I think with the rise of computers and cell phones the lack of social interaction is a lot of what is killing people. If you get comfortable with interacting and talking to lots of different people, the social awkwardness goes away and it’s a lot easier to do the above things.

      Liked by 3 people

    • redpillboomer says:

      “For those of us who got lucky and happened upon a girl who’s really into us, it’s useless to have IOIs from other girls.”

      Not completely useless. The other IOI girls are giving you can create “competition anxiety” in the girl who is really into you. When I shared in my earlier post the IOIs from the 21 year old I was getting, in the background were the IOIs, I had been/still was getting from a 29 year old that I had been dating right before her. The 21 year old knew about the 29 year old and her (continued) interest in me and it caused her to ramp up her ‘game’ to thwart the 29 year old’s “intentions.” It was actually funny to me at the time because I saw how mad it made my 21 year girlfriend toward the 29 year old. For a period of time, she ‘couldn’t stand’ her and usually did not refer to the other girl by her first name, but called her ‘that B,’ and occasionally when really upset at her, ‘that F’ing B,’ which I found really funny coming from a Christian girl.

      At the time, I had no idea what was going on, RP world-wise, but of course now I do. I used to refer to it as the ‘cat fight,’ but it was something else really. It was more of a gauntlet thrown down in the non-verbal realm between two women. The 21 year old was “protecting” her territory from what she considered to be a still credible threat from the 29 year old. What my 21 year old gf didn’t realize was that I was DONE with the 29 year old and her bat sh!t craziness. There was no competition, but my 21 year old didn’t know that. It made for some good theater for me for a period of time.

      Liked by 1 person

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  8. Scott says:

    Good to see the meet cute phenomenon is still having some traction as a discussion topic.

    Liked by 1 person

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