The Rupture of the Marriage Market Place

The chasm between the sexes runs ever deeper.

Readership: All
Author’s Note:
This post is based on a conversation between Deti and Novaseeker and has been coauthored with Jack.
Reader’s Note: The theme for July is “Market Forces”.
Length: 3,600 words
Reading Time: 12 minutes

ALPHA F*X, BETA BUX, REDUX

Red Pill Boomer wrote,

“What do you guys think, has the AF/BB strategy really been superseded now by AF and Fs and Fs M’ lady from ages 18-27, and then her mindset shifts to, “Now that I’m 28 years old… COMMIT d@mn you! I won’t ‘settle’ for anything less than you Mr. Top 5-10-20% man. I’m entitled to one of you!” Are we going to see the trend of ‘Alpha Widows’ escalating in the next few years?  Btw, this seemed to be a subtext in the Tomi Lahren rant that went viral last summer, the “PSA for Boyish” men diatribe. She seemed to really be throwing a tantrum about this very thing; and coincidentally, or not so coincidentally, she was just turning 28 years old at the time of the rant.

This has been the case for some time, actually.

AF/BB is an issue of sequencing. Some Manospherian authors have called it a longitudinal “mating strategy”, but I don’t believe the vast majority of women are that self-aware. What we see is that women are moulded by the herd, focused on the Feeelz, running on auto-pilot (Jack’s phrase), eating up male-sourced opportunities as they come, and are totally oblivious to what they are doing. I do believe there are some “masterminds” who have shaped this kind of life path into a mating strategy, and up until the last decade or so (until Red Pill went mainstream and MGTOW gained momentum), this strategy was quite effective.

That is, women start off with Alpha F*x (AF), with the idea of trying to get the most suitable of the AFs to commit to them. That is the goal. They do F some unmarriageable bad boy AFs, too, but sooner or later they get jaded from the brutality of sexual competition in this Sexual Market Place (SMP), and then gravitate towards men that, perhaps with a few adjustments (on his part, in the woman’s mind) would be a good potential long term partner, and try to get him to commit. In other words, she begins looking for the Alpha-Bux (AB) and tries to secure his commitment. This is pretty much always the first sequential strategy women employ that they are cognitively aware of. But actually, this is an even longer bet than a simple AF. The thing that makes this strategy even more difficult for them is that they have already calibrated their sexual expectations on their initial AF experiences.

Almost all of them realize at some stage that getting commitment from an AB is not going to happen for them. Either because they can’t find an actual AB in their local market, or because the ABs they did find are not interested in committing — often to anyone, but sometimes only to them. Part of this is because these high value AB men see these women as already used and broken, and another part is because these women never learned how to get along with a man from their past life experiences.

The age at which women realize this, however, varies greatly. It varies by geography (women tend to hunt for ABs much longer in big blue metro areas than in smaller dating markets), and has changed over time (the age of marriage is increasing over time). Right now in places like Manhattan and DC that age is mid-30s. In someplace like Omaha or Pittsburgh it’s more like 26-27. There’s a lot of variation. The SMP is local, and also varies by social class somewhat — so people tend to put a lot of stock in the universality of what they see in their own locality, because that is their local reality, but overall there is quite a lot of local variance behind the national stats.

But at some point, the female mating strategy goes through another revision. Most women transition from hunting for the AB to compromising (AKA “settling”), and hunting for the best Beta Bux (BB) they can get. That is the “epiphany” that Rollo Tomassi refers to, or what is often called “lane changing”, where women consciously shift their aim from mostly chasing the elusive AB’s commitment, to trying to find the best BB they can get. Again, the age at which this shift happens varies, and overall is increasing, such that in, say, Manhattan, this isn’t happening now until the mid-30s. But it does happen for most women.

Some women never make the shift. Either they are one of the few who marries an AB (some of the female personages in the sphere are like this), or they are of the “never settle” mindset that is so conditioned by riding the endless train of alphas in their 20s and earlier 30s that they can’t bring themselves to settle for a beta, greater or not (Kate Bolick is one example of this). Some of these women write articles in The Atlantic and Medium. Some of them go for “The Lesbian Option”. Some of them just go for longer term singleness, finding other holdout single women “never settle” types to brunch with and travel to exotic places with, and write travel or food blogs with and so on (viz. the “Sisterhood is Powerful!!!  Natch!!!!” type of thing).

But outside of those outliers most women do change lanes eventually because most women do marry still, and almost all of them are not marrying ABs because ABs are very few in number. Most do make the shift and settle, but the age at which they are doing that has been getting pushed back, and, on the margins, over time more women are being left out when the music stops because they find there is a shortage of age appropriate marriageable men when they do finally decide to lane change. That’s a real thing, it’s happening, but like truly sexless men, while it is a thing and is increasing, it’s still marginal — most men are not completely sexless (just less sex and less quality than they would like) and most women are not going without marriage (just later and to a less attractive man than they would like). The marginal changes are, however, real and growing over time.

The Rupture of the MMP

As I described above, most women leverage their sexual value in their peak years to avail of AF sex with hot fun sexy men when young, simply because they can.  There’s nothing stopping them, and we’re going into a third generation (!!!) of women who live their sexual lives this way. However, there are some major “problems” with this strategy from the womens’ perspective.

  1. There are fewer attractive men than there are attractive women. This is because of the differing ways men and women view attraction – most women are attractive to most men, but most men are NOT attractive to most women.
  2. There’s a hard limit on how much most men can improve their attractiveness. A guy who started out as a 4, 5, or 6 is never going to be an 8 or a 9. That just is not going to happen, ever! So this hard limit on the pool of “eligible” men is not going to change, ever!
  3. The relative scarcity of high SMV men combined with the attrition of men from the SMP/MMP due to the growing MGTOW movement causes women to be hugely alarmed and concerned over MGTOW. I will cover this in a follow up post. &

These problems are really insoluble, and the current SMP and MMP has no workable solution to this problem.

The prior solution and bulwark against this problem was a combination of the following.

  1. Restricting and constraining women’s sexual and dating behavior to keep them realistic and prevent them from developing a taste for sexual attention from men who would never marry them because those men have better options.
  2. Getting young women paired off relatively early to SMP-comparable men around their age or a little older.
  3. Getting those married women pregnant and keeping them busy with homes and kids and sometimes jobs to supplement the family income, so they have no time to think about “bigger better deals” or lament “the one that got away”.
  4. If all else fails, and Bertha or Plain Jane can’t get the job done, well, we’ll just help things along and do some matchmaking for them. We’ll set Bertha up with Poindexter (and they’ll be OK); and we’ll set Jane up with Ernie Engineer (and they’ll be OK).

We know this approach has worked, presumably for centuries.

If Bertha and Jane never got to even talk to Quentin Quarterback, much less get a one night stand with him, then they’ll be just fine with their lower status guys like Poindexter and Ernie. They won’t be pining away for Quentin because they don’t even really know what he’s like. Susie’s busy at home with Paul Plumber and their 4 kids and her part time accounting job. Stacy got Quentin and is having his kids and going to the country club. Our intrepid girls, all wives now, have too much on their plates to give a lot of thought to what some guy they’re not married to or living with is doing… simply because they never had anything to do with any other guys.

We don’t have any of this now. We don’t have any solutions to this problem now. Because our society did not want that solution anymore. Our society wanted women to be sexually liberated, so they can have sex with whomever they wanted. So if women can have sex with whomever they want, they ignore everyone but Quentin and Chad. And after some fun with Quentin and Chad, they bristle at the notion that, if they want marriage (and most all women do at some point), they have to spend the rest of their lives with men like Paul Plumber, or Ernie Engineer, or Stan Stemlord, or Tom Teacher, or Bob from Accounting, or Billy Beta, or, God forbid, Poindexter.

So women have a very, very hard time accepting that they can’t get commitment from Quentin and Chad. After all, they got to sleep with Quentin and Chad, so why can’t they get commitment from one of those guys?

The Mismatch

There are several reasons for this dilemma, but the main reason is that women’s experience and criteria are the reverse of men’s. That is…

  • Men face an uphill battle trying to match women’s expectations (which are intentionally clouded in confusion) and also compete against other men for sexual access to women.
  • Women can pretty much have sex with whomever they choose.
  • Men have lower criteria for sex and higher criteria for marriage.
  • Women are the reverse — sky high criteria for sex, lower criteria for relationships/marriage.

Because of the dictates of supply and demand, it turns out that…

  • Women are willing to have sex with high quality men who would never marry them, while at the same time (simultaneously in some cases), they are willing to marry men who don’t match their sexual criteria. Men resent the ħәll out of this. They feel very little loyalty to such a woman and they are tempted to step out, even after marriage.
  • Women are often deemed worthy of sex by men, but very few women are attractive enough (judging by a panoply of factors) to gain a commitment from one of those guys. Women resent the ħәll out of that. They transfer that resentment to the men they eventually marry, which dampens his once vibrant love for her, and later in life, these women become bitter shrews. Women will vehemently refuse to face up to this truth.

Men’s Perspectives

From a man’s perspective, it doesn’t make sense that a woman would be willing to marry a man she doesn’t want to have sex with, because this is a recipe for lifelong angst and frustration. Too many men fail to discover this until after marriage.

Desperate men are willing to wife up once-sexy, unmarriageable women, of course, but in fact, they would prefer to have sex with those beautiful women during their prime years. But those women, who in past generations were largely available for marriage, are instead now choosing to ride Alphas into the sunset of oblivion. A man’s desire for sex with beautiful women never really goes away. So if a man doesn’t quench this thirst when he’s younger, he’s likely to be looking around for opportunities to do so when he is older. (Women see this as a bug, not a feature.)

So to men, the idea that a woman would be willing to marry a man, but not find him attractive enough to enthusiastically make love to him on a regular basis, is exactly backwards from the way most men experience life, and it’s also precisely the opposite from women. Worst of all, men are left completely in the dark when women act directly opposite to how men would expect them to act in a way that is entirely reasonable when looking at life as a whole.

Women’s Perspectives

From a woman’s perspective, it doesn’t compute that a woman would be attractive enough for sex, but not for marriage, generally speaking, because this fails to integrate their desire for Alpha seed with their need for provisioning.

Women will have sex with some sexy, unmarriageable men, of course, but in fact, they would like to marry many of the men they are “riding” during their party years — if not him, and not then, someone like him, and eventually. But those men, who in past generations were largely available for marriage, are instead now choosing to spin as many plates as they can while the oven is hot. A woman’s desire for marriage is non-negotiable. So if a woman can’t lock down Chad or Quentin when she’s younger, then she’s quite willing to settle for Bert or Ernie when she is older. (Men see this as a bug, not a feature.)

So to women, the idea that these guys would be willing to have sex with them super-fast, but that they would also find themselves not attractive enough to marry is exactly backwards from the way most women feel things, viscerally, and it’s precisely the opposite from men. Women are blindsided when men act directly opposite to how they would expect men to act by projecting their own way of looking at things onto men.

WHAT WE HAVE NOW

As you can see, men’s and women’s perspectives are diametric opposites. This is because men’s and women’s respective needs are locked in a mortal battle against their desires leading to a bifurcation of the entities of sex and marriage.

In general, women are prioritizing personal and sexual fulfillment, while keeping a long term goal of marriage on the back burner until their last egg nears its expiration date. Sex is not satisfying to women unless she can get a top 10% man, so this creates a mating glut centered around hot men with soft harems — the same men who will never commit to a fugacious marriage as long as voracious thatch is on tap. For those precious few men who have teems of bush spilling off the edge of their mattress, the real opportunity to marry is available to them, but it pales in comparison to the plush piles of poon on the pillow.

Since women are preoccupied with their sexual freedom and fail to prioritize marriage, the emerging result is that marriage is being pushed further and farther out, and some are not marrying at all. If anything, women’s demands for attractive men are being pushed up – male physical appearances and looks are much more important now, and that makes the problem worse, because most men just do not meet that one physical ideal women like. Most men just don’t have those characteristics and never will, no matter what they do.

What we are living through now, as Roger Devlin pointed out in his seminal works of the noughts-era, is the rejection wholesale by women of the “old deal”, which they chafed under and didn’t see as equitable. Instead they pushed for a “having my cake and eat it, too” solution of being free to pursue sexy men for sex without consequences (biological or social), followed by marriage to a suitably attractive, dutiful husband, coupled with exit options on fair terms at her choice, at any time. It was basically a “we win, you lose” zero sum game scenario. They thought (and they really honestly did think), that men would “play along” because … sex. The thinking was, “We have the power of the p*ssy. Men have no choice, they have to do what we want, otherwise they won’t get laid at all, so don’t worry about the men.” And that worked, for the most part, for most of the past 60 years. It still does work, to a large degree, but we are seeing erosion on the margins over time, as more and more men find it doesn’t pencil for them to play the game, and as more and more women get greedier and greedier about making it even more of a zero-sum “we win, you lose” game.

Most recently, many women of the younger set are starting to wake up to this reality, and are making some adjustments in their expectations and their life strategies. For women, OnlyFans is one aspect of this, and MGTOW for men. There are many others. Overall, intersexual relations are becoming more isolated and transactional in nature. As long as the younger set are focused on the flesh, this will continue to unravel until a breaking point as been reached.

THE QUICK FIXES

NovaSeeker gave us a framework of options. But after looking them over, it’s evident that there isn’t really a solution that comes to mind that would not involve unwinding the social changes of the last 60 years. The only current “solutions” for men are…

  1. Do without and spend the rest of your life single. This is what increasingly more men are doing.
  2. Wait a long time and compromise/settle so deeply that it’s a net loss and worse than what you might have had with doing without (what a sizable number of men and women do).

Door Number 1 is hard for men because they spend years without sex. Men will do nearly anything for a piece of @$$.  They will abase and embarrass themselves for sex. They will turn themselves into the worst kinds of simps. If they have to wait or pay for it, they will. If they have to beclown themselves, they will. If they have to learn pickup or game, they will. If they have to become good at complex algebra, they will. This is why men will have sex with women they don’t really love, who they’re really not all that into, who they consider beneath them.

Door Number 1 is hard for women because being a “never married” is a huge status hit with the feminine social matrix. Women need marriage/commitment like men need sex. They just have to have it and they’ll do almost anything to get it. (I never realized this until coming to the ‘sphere – for most women, being a “never married” is one of the most humiliating and emotionally traumatic things a woman can experience. This, in addition to the biological clock, is why women go into full panic mode in their 30s.) This is why women will marry men they’re really not all that into, marry men beneath them, marry men they don’t love.

So, lots of people will pick Door Number 2.

While it is true that men hold the key to marriage, the grand majority of men cannot find a woman worth taking who will have him. Even for those men who marry, marriage is not joyful to them without the component of hot sex with a beautiful, loyal, submissive wife.

The point is that under the present SMP/MMP regime, the problem of a shortage of attractive men cannot be solved for most people. There’s no way to solve it short of more and more people simply doing without, and women will not dare to sweep the crusty cobwebs off that option, which forces many men to take said option.

Conclusions

In religious words, we could say that it’s not God’s will for most people to remain celibate. But on the other hand, it’s not God’s will for anyone to enter into a debased relationship, which is what they are doing when they marry or have sex with someone simply so that they can avoid the suffering inherent in choice (1).

The “sweet spot” socially is to find a way to match up what the sexes bring to each other and seek from each other in an equitable way.

That’s what used to be done, but now, no more. That just can’t be done anymore, because most men can’t give women what they demand. It really is “heads I win, tails you lose”. The only way men can win is just to say, “I just won’t play, then. I’ll just keep my money and resources and commitment. Or, if I get hard up enough, I’ll get an escort, a sugar baby or an OnlyFans subscription, and toss a little cash your way. Otherwise, step off.”

On a societal-wide scale, this is one of the biggest conundrums of today’s MMP. But on an individual basis, there is a sweet spot that is lying right under our noses, yet, it is difficult to sniff it out.

References

Related

This entry was posted in Courtship and Marriage, Culture Wars, Female Power, Feminism, Freedom, Personal Liberty, Hypergamy, MGTOW, Incels, Models of Failure, Relationships, Sexual Authority, SMV/MMV. Bookmark the permalink.

121 Responses to The Rupture of the Marriage Market Place

  1. cameron232 says:

    Good post deti. A couple of additions (not disagreements).

    “Restricting and constraining women’s sexual and dating behavior to keep them realistic and prevent them from developing a taste for sexual attention from men who would never marry them…”

    Women also have sex for intimacy and physical affection (it’s not always an either/or). They probably want this from Chad/Quentin too. When they have sex with a series of men expecting this, it’s how they get broken in the sense of not being able to connect emotionally with future partners i.e. “pair-bond.” So it’s not JUST a matter of them feeling that “I’ve had hotter guys.” In fact, sex for them with most men (non-alphas) is probably predominantly (at best) an experience of intimacy and physical affection because they’re just not that hot for most guys. So Beta Bob is relying on that aspect of female sexuality in the relationship (since it’s the best he can get from her) and that connection is broken.

    “ They won’t be pining away for Quentin because they don’t even really know what he’s like.”

    Not sleeping with Quentin will help but even in the old days she could still SEE Quentin since you can’t keep women chained in the basement. Not sleeping with Quentin will help but not solve the problem. The more restricted her life/experiences (short of chaining her in the basement) the better this aspect. The Church used to tell women to remain at home unless there’s a real good reason not too (and with hubby’s permission only) – you wonder if this was one reason (in addition to restricting opportunities for adultery and mischief). There is no solution to human nature – one reason I’m not a progressive.

    “The only way men can win is just to say, “I just won’t play, then.”

    More and more men are doing that. As the quality of females goes down (fat, blue hair, tattoos, unfeminine behavior/demeanor) more men are going to see that even porn (never mind prostitution, PUA) is an acceptable alternative to the high cost of having sexual access to a wildebeest.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. There is a third option for men: seeking a partner abroad. The north Asian MMP suffers problems similar to the West but other regions are quite different.

    Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      It’s an option but I tend to think most white men (I’ll assume the predominant audience here) prefer white women or north Asian women. Same for most north Asian men I think.

      Some men talk about Eastern Europe but very low fertility rates there tend to indicate feminism, maybe less noxious than the west.

      Could just be me IDK.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. Lastomod says:

    Game / PUA helped up “the ante” and pushed this further. Game worked so to speak (but did it really???) if you were a man that maybe was not Chad, Tyrone, Abdul, and Chang…….but not below average either. A brush up on some social skills. They had a face that with a few pounds lost would look more defined. They may have had a dating life….albeit not too good, but had one. Game I supposed helped these guys get over the hump to the next notch.

    For most, it was an empty promise of “just do this / do that/ try really hard / its numbers only….and if it fails, you must like being a beta”

    The “competitive” side of men in matters concerning and about women borders on the absurd sometimes. It alienated more than it helped, and I personally believe caused a serious rift between men in these matters. MGTOW. Incel and Blackpill all have very large segments that really, really believe that Game ruined any chance they may have had pre early 2000’s. I fall into this camp, as you all know.

    Women responded to this with just pushing the envelope to the next threshhold, which in the end just left more men “high and dry” in the dating market.

    As Covid lifts, and somethings return to normal, or as normal as it was during 2019…..we will see s spike in marriage. Not like the end of WW II but an increase. LIke we did post 9/11. It will be short lived. Church leaders, many men in this sphere, and Fox commentators will say “see! the younger generation wants conservative values! They want Jesus!”

    Rational people know what it really is. A reaction to a situation that caused some to just think “I want / need someone with me. Don’t want to go through something like that again alone”

    With the coming advent of health passports, and a massive over-reach of governments (not just in the USA, but all over the world…..communist or not) on rights, freedoms, and potentials…..a deeper rift will be created and I don’t beleive it will end well. Governments know for the most part, they NOW can get away with lockdowns, restrictions, rules, social taboos that fit the moment…and most WILL obey. Even myself……I thought the mandatory masks were a HUGE no-no but there I was, being the “gray man” as well and wearing it where I was supposed to. As were all of you.

    The social pressure to get the vaccination is huge. My employer is pushing me hard to get it. My few friends are telling me to “just get it” and even I see church leaders from ALL denominations speaking to their flocks about the importance of “getting it”

    My HMO is Kaiser. I have a good plan with them. My co-pays are very small. My employer covers a much larger than average cost. I pay about 100 a month out of my pay for “my share” of cost / enrollment. There will come a time…..sooner than later……when my HMO will indeed send that letter and say “If you want to stay as a member of this HMI, you must get vaccinated”

    And that will be that. At the moment to travel to the UK next year, I just have to show a negative Covid test within 48 hrs before departure. The day will come, sooner than later when you will not be able to get on a flight without this, and a barrage of other new vaccinations for “new” disesases or flus, or colds, or something else…….just wait 🙂

    You all speak of Satan here or the “evil one” (back in New England, people still call him ‘Ol Scratch) and many here tend to put this one women. On Democrats, or this group or that group. This evil force works in ways that would surorise you. When I was a Christian, I was convinced that he was working through many aspects of Game. The evil in this world doesn’t care your color, or gender….or sexuality, or if you played first strenght on the Varsity basketball team. Evil is only meant to destroy and it uses any means possible…….

    Marriage is pretty much done…..I don’t see what will come next or what will manifest but marriage 1.0 and even 2.0 are on their way out.

    Liked by 4 people

    • cameron232 says:

      As far as game, I don’t think even “alpha Chads” get laid all the time. Not being one I’ll have to rely on what I’ve heard. So I could see “game” as allowing already successful men to be even more successful or pushing above average men into that magic top 20% or whatever.

      “The “competitive” side of men in matters concerning and about women borders on the absurd sometimes. It alienated more than it helped, and I personally believe caused a serious rift between men in these matters.”

      Yeah tell me about it – we’re always getting in pissing contests even online. Or displaying what bad@sses we are, how successful with women we are, etc. Fair amount of bullsh!tting.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Well Cameron, guys can bs pretty hard when in a group of other men. It happens. I have personally known a few men in my time who were just “blessed” bu god or whatever with a circus freak-show of good looks. They could stop traffic even at 2AM on the corner of Fulton and Belmont in Fresno. Men like this DO bring out the phrase from me of “life is indeed not fair”

        As for them gettig laid all the time….well, these men work, these men do have other things to do….but when it comes to getting some. Its a phone call away, or just “log on” to one of the many apps, using that handsome face, and good genetics that “god gave him” its pretty easy. Seen it first hand.

        But looks don’t count, its just amazing ‘game” and “frame” and “confidence” and he has a great personality too.

        Whale excrement.

        I am not saying their lives are perfect, they have problems too, and things they have to put up with that I never will really understand. What I really don’t like about men like this is:

        They put nothing on their looks. They HONESTLY believe all a guy has to do is just talk to women, be funny, tease, and work really hard. They have no clue, and how could they? From puberty onward they never really had to “do” anything to get attention, smiles, IOI’s from women. Just clueless here. Good looking men on a cultural standard…its easy for them to say “confidence” or “just go to the gym” or “just take a shower” and dress better.

        Good looking men as a rule don’t have to follow most “rules” set by women, or Game, or Rollo (a prize horses a$s), or god, or what Jesus said.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        “As for them gettig laid all the time….well, these men work, these men do have other things to do….but when it comes to getting some. Its a phone call away, or just…”

        Well this is where society is just messed up. The goal should be one woman-one man, not “getting laid.” Even if you’re not Christian IMO. My dad didn’t live that way I don’t think yours did either.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        My old man got married latermuch later than average for his time. He had to drop out of high school to work the farm after his mom died. After a four year stint in the USAF (he told me he never dated,or had a girlfriend during this time) he said he was using all his free time with working on his car (1958 Chevrolet Bel Air) hopping it up…..camping, hiking, hunting, fishing. He was working as a farm hand, part time mechanic…..he decided it was time to find a career and entered Journeyman school to become a carpenter. He was working part time as a pump jockey at a gas station when he met my mom. This was over ten years after he turned 18. If he had been born when I was (1970) he would have been a life long single.

        Liked by 3 people

    • elspeth says:

      Gotta tell, you Jason. When I decided to stop wearing the masks (around May 2020), I stopped. I suspect a lot of people put up with me in public places because I am black (although I got a lot of scowls). But I refused to play the game. When a business insisted, I simply took my money and left. The only exceptions were situations such as medical appointments for my kids, or things that were worth more to me than the hassle of being contrarian.

      There were times at the beginning when I felt very uncomfortable, even squirmy. But I did it, and I always behaved myself. SAM did too, except on one occasion when a guy was being insistent. He gave him an icy stare that said, “I can hear. I heard you the first, second, and third times. If you tell me about that mask one. more. time…”

      So not everyone here went along to get along.

      Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Probably not for fear of being called racist – they probably didn’t tell you because black women aren’t known for taking crap. My wife gets crap in public from other women for having too many kids. I bet they don’t do this to black mothers of large families because it wouldn’t end well if they did that to most black women.

        Yeah I yelled at some lady here at work for Karen-ing me over the mask. Said the same thing as SAM except I didn’t have the calm, icy stare of an alpha male – I just lost it the way I tend to (not an alpha trait by the way). Surprised I didn’t get in trouble – exactly the opposite – the woman actually apologized to me later.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        My wife gets crap in public from other women for having too many kids.

        Seriously? Anyone I knew who said anything like that to a married man or married woman with a lot of kids would get told in no uncertain terms to zip it and step off.

        It is no one else’s business how few or how many kids a married couple has. You have one kid, OK, You have 10, OK. It’s not for any of us to judge that or decide it’s “wrong”.

        As for the mask, I finally told some customer who complained at me for not wearing a mask “call the cops if you think the law is being broken”.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        It’s always by another woman and not when I’m present. Men who are strangers just make casual remarks like “you got your hands full” -heard that line a million times.

        She hears things like “you need to cut that off” and “what does your husband think of this” as if it’s something she’s pushed on me against my will. When she tells them I want all these kids it really seems to irritate them.

        Like

      • Elspeth says:

        We started getting the ” you know what causes that, right?” when expecting #4.

        Can’t imagine what Cameron’s wife has heard.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        *We started getting the ” you know what causes that, right?” when expecting #4.

        Can’t imagine what Cameron’s wife has heard.*

        ::Eyeroll

        Whatever happened to “Congratulations” or “That’s great!” or “What is it (the baby’s sex)” or “very happy for you!”

        Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        “She hears things like “you need to cut that off” and “what does your husband think of this” as if it’s something she’s pushed on me against my will. When she tells them I want all these kids it really seems to irritate them.”

        A simple, “This is all God saw fit to bless me with” is a nice reframe that correctly points to children as a gift and not a burden. My boys just got back home after their first time spending a couple days at an overnight camp. The big hugs because they missed me and their excitement at telling me about all the fun things they did are what life is about and I only have 2.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        I think there’s a psychological trigger – something subconcious – that you’re somehow taking resources from them by having a bunch of kids – environmentalism or peak oil or whatever.

        My wife says to me: “they are mad because their husbands don’t want to have babies with them” implying that they’re probably bad wives. Yeah, this is self serving for her I guess but it’s kinda funny. She can be pretty hard on other women – how they treat their husbands.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        I have to still wear one at work, in the office. This is company policy still at my workplace. Feminism had nothing to do with it……nor Newsom, nor Pelosi.

        I cannot say “Im not wearing one” because after all the paperwork, me calling the local news, going without pay while this is being “investigated” and debated, going through the hassle of it all….just isn’t worth it.

        At the bigger stores, Employees ask you wear one. I comply. I have done a ton more online shopping…..and this is what the people who enforce masks kind-of want you to do anyway…..

        If you walked into a place of business, and a manger asked you to wear one, Deti is not going to say “Call the cops if you think a law is being broken” and still expect service. I know you Alpha’s….people just listen to your one-line reason and don’t question it.

        I am saying, people have pushed back, and yes, the restrictions are wanning….but I still have to wear one at work. Deti, if you had to go to court for a case, and the local State or County rules required you to wear one, yo are not going to say “call the cops if you think the law is being broken”

        You put the mask on.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        It’s been a long time since Florida stores enforced the mask thing. Work here doesn’t require it. Florida may be a lot different from California.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        Agreed. But if your employer said “You gottta wear a mask” you are going to wear it. You are not going to fight this. Make a scene, call a alwyer and spend four, five months without income while lawyers fight it out and the local news gets involved and the like…..you’re not.

        I hate wearing it. My employer is being still over cautious. Some places are okay. Some business don’t care if you wear one or not. Some places still say “mask required”

        Liked by 2 people

      • elspeth says:

        Yes, my husband had to wear the mask at work until quite recently, and he complied. Priorities and all that. He is lucky in that he has an office with a door and not a cubicle, so he didn’t have to wear it perpetually, which helped.

        But we continuously ignored the “masks required” signs when out and about, and rarely got any pushback. Throughout Florida though, most people were complying. Never underestimate the power of the media to instill fear. Except southwest Florida. They weren’t having it. I really like those folks.

        Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Cameron – “My wife says to me: “they are mad because their husbands don’t want to have babies with them” implying that they’re probably bad wives.” This is probably right more than you think. It is the case with me and Mrs. A. After about a decade of marriage I eventually capitulated because I don’t believe in divorce and wanted kids. At one point I told her the marriage is bad because we have a poor sex life (ie she had every reason under the sun why we shouldn’t that day), to go along with the control and argumentativeness, and brining children into the mix will make the tough marriage even harder. I was more right than I ever wanted to be but I do have my boys. Had our relationship been different, I’d probably have teenagers now and more than just two.

        Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        If you walked into a place of business, and a manger asked you to wear one, Deti is not going to say “Call the cops if you think a law is being broken” and still expect service.

        And you would be right. If a manager demanded I wear a mask, I’d just take my business elsewhere. In my state, most businesses are not requiring masks. I don’t do business with any businesses that still do.

        Deti, if you had to go to court for a case, and the local State or County rules required you to wear one, yo are not going to say “call the cops if you think the law is being broken”

        And you would be right. The courts are controlled by judges’ orders. I have to obey a judge’s order unless it would breach a client confidence. I have to obey that order even if it’s an unconstitutional order. There are ways to test the constitutionality of such an order but we don’t have to get into that now.

        Where I think we get into sticky constitutional wickets with mask restrictions are the ones that say “mask required if not vaccinated; if you are vaccinated you don’t have to wear a mask but State offices may reserve the right to demand proof of vaccination.” It’s a privacy issue where the State is involved. Not so much with businesses though.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. Red Pill Apostle says:

    “It was basically a “we win, you lose” zero sum game scenario. They thought (and they really honestly did think), that men would “play along” because … sex. The thinking was, “We have the power of the p*ssy. Men have no choice, they have to do what we want, otherwise they won’t get laid at all, so don’t worry about the men.” And that worked, for the most part, for most of the past 60 years.”

    The 60 year time frame is roughly 2 cycles of marriage. The first generation was part of the baby boom and was taught marriage 1.0 by their WWII generation parents, but was corrupted by feminism. The boomers benefited from the millennia of patriarchy and the social structures that it created, but did not teach those truths to their kids in meaningful numbers. Generalizing the timeline, Boomers were born in the 50’s, married the 70’s and their kids then married in the early 2000’s. Boomer’s grandkids have yet to start marrying in numbers (if they even will) so we have, in reality, 60+ years of feminist indoctrination but only 2 generations married under that system. Feminism is such a horrible blight to humanity that it has destroyed marriage in only 2 cycles.

    The second generation, the boomer’s kids, were basically sold marriage 1.0, but without any of the underlying structure to enforce it. Hence, we get marriage 2.0 and a generation of men who walked into marriage in complete ignorance of what was waiting for them. This is the generation of men that serve as the examples that pulled the proverbial curtain back on how things actually are. We are now just waiting for men to shake off their old belief systems, which can be very hard to do. For me personally, it took 7 years of a clinically sexless marriage after 10 years of mere withholding before that, until the “happy wife, happy life” mindset that had been drilled into me shattered.

    There are 2 aspects of the current system built on the power of the P that point to it not working long term. First, as Deti pointed out, men are assessing their options and are concluding with increasing frequency that women are such a detraction on men’s lives that they are better off doing without. It is a complete abandonment of the biblical role of helpmate.

    Second, you cannot simultaneously have sexually liberated females and also maintain “the power of the p*ssy”. There is no way to uphold the P power while giving it away for free, if only to certain classes of men. You end up where we are now in a situation where what once was a highly desired but limited asset (high value under a patriarchal system that limited access) is now a cheapened commodity that women give away for little to no cost. Even for men who do not have much, or any, access to the SMP, the value still declines because they witness women’s own pricing of the asset.

    Liked by 5 people

  5. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    Great post,DETI!

    One of the first rachels to come into the manosphere was lydia or lady lydia as DAL’called her!She was sure every man could easily divorce a wife,she was confusing men with milion$of dollars&fame with those with none!Heres more info https://lydiaswebpage.blogspot.com/2012/04/rant-against-mens-rights-attitude.html

    She like the homemaker was worried about the attitude of the ”mens righters” she did’nt understand that just because we want laws to be changed,dos’nt make us ”mens rights activists”(The first MGTOW was mainly ex-MRAS who gave up on the system/status quo!)
    was she a MRA?
    She acted like we should go back to fault-based divorce,so she was a MRA,right?
    All of us old-timers here know what happened with lydia she was sure that 80%of women initiate divorce was making men avoid marriage,REALLY?DAL’ supposedly was’nt using the statics,right?
    Women,fathers&the system make men avoid marriage!
    Also when did fux become worthy of censoring?
    Anybody else that needs further info on men not marrying here it is!
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/07/21/all-roads-lead-to-duluth/
    All of us who preach bibcalmanhood,game,anything involving women are the ENEMY!
    Remember that the next time you want to beat up on ”lesser” MEN!
    To that evil bluepill world you are also that ”lesser”MAN!

    I remember these words do you!?
    https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-8.htm

    ”But you shall not be called ‘Rabbi,’ for your Teacher is One, and you are all brothers”.

    I don’t go by those ”brothers&sisters” translations like some ”redpillers” seem to go by!

    Like

  6. Scott says:

    Guys who think they are going to go find a woman in West Bleezblabway or whatever, and bring her back to the US and have marriage 1.0 are kidding themselves about how converged the entire planet is with this stuff.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Lastmod says:

      Exactly. I get ads on Youtube for “Did you know young, beautiful women from the Philippines are looking for older men?” and of course the ads for Slavic women from Poland, Russia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Latvia……..all are drop dead gorgeous, and all are 18-22 just looking for a “good guy like you” and they all look like they walked out of a swimsuit issue spread or porn shoot.

      I laugh. A decade ago it was Thailand “they are all submissive and just want a good guy” nonsense.

      I hate to break it to men who feel this is the only way to get a wife, you mean to tell me…..you, a man who is MAYBE a 5 on his best day, but maybe a 4 usually and as you get older for the most part it will still drop another level downward honestly believes that an upper level woman from these places “looks wise” believes only in traditional female roles, and just wants to be with a guy like you, and she is 20 plus years younger than you, and she really finds a below average looking man as attractive. Have you seen some young slavic soccer players? How about their military guys? Yeah…this poor smoking hot lady in Poland has “no options” whatsoever in her homeland, but wants to be with Mr. Below-average looking guy”

      I have the deed to the Golden Gate Bridge, and I also have a connection to getting Bitcoin for free (lol)

      Women from these parts of the world are different, but then in the same breath we are told “all women are like that”

      PT Barnum said “there’s a sucker born every minute”

      Liked by 4 people

      • Lastmod says:

        The even more frigtning thing about this to me is: Big Brother knows my Youtube views, my spending habits what I like and dislike….

        Most of the Ads I get on Youtube: Ads for single women all over the world who love older men, and are just pining for my baby and wanting to meet me. Lots of camping related stuff for National Parks, equipment and survival gear. Ads for new releases or re-releases on vinyl. High end stereo equipment.

        I watch a ton of news and other stuff from Britain. I even got one of these “women in Poland want to meet you ads” IN WELSH. Now….many Celtic women probably could drive any Welshman to sheep or to somewhere else…but it was strange!

        I get standard commercials for shops / department stores in Britain advertising their wares to me as well….usually fashion, vinyl and stuff for my Volkswagen

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        There’s a guy who runs a popular nutrition blog I read a few times – he had some interesting diet ideas, ideas on carbs vs. fat, etc. He’s probably in his 50s. He moved to Thailand and got a much younger Thai single mom – I think as a girlfriend not a wife. Naturally he raves about her. People in the comments (the dude’s real political so naturally lots of online enemies) – were saying things like “have fun with your Thai whore.”

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Jason I could see this the same way I see the sex doll things. A way to send a message to women – “see, we’ll replace you with non-Western women who are much less trouble than you.” Dunno that women are gonna get that message. I’ll stick with my ‘Merican girl.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Back in 2003? 2004? Ran around with a guy who was my age. Better looking than me…..but he decided that he wanted a “hot, young, asian wife”

        We were in our mid-thirties at the time. Now, I was living no “moral life” back then (cocaine addict, drunk) but he does this. orders a bride from China.

        It was creepy. Really creepy. She arrives in the USA. Can’t speak one word of English. She is eighteen. She wore a “Hello Kitty” backpack. Sucked on a ring lollipop…..hair in pig tails. He was do d*mn proud, and thinking “he scored”

        It came off a bit creepy, and dirty to me…..now, I was not living some “moral life” I’ll admit this. She was a GIRL and this was a grown MAN. To him, he probably was getting the best in his life at home in his tiny, overpriced San Francisco apartment……I just felt really, really……creeped out by this. He had no problems with it. She’s dressed like a teen, and he looks like her dad.

        Right before I moved, I saw him….I asked about “the wife” and he says, he says he got “scammed” he paid all this money to get her here…..married, and a year later she up and files for divorced, claims “abuse” and ends up moving to San Jose to go to college. She suddenly could speak a LOT of English when it came to filing paperwork suddenly and knowing her “rights”

        He was more upset that he found out she had an IUD and couln’t get pregnant (well….duh, she isn’t going to have your baby when he plan all along was to use your butt to get here and get settled)

        The problem was that he was going through another company to do this again, this time with a Thai girl…

        Liked by 2 people

      • imnobody00 says:

        Well, I pulled it off, but it was not the typical “mail-order bride” story. I expatted to Central America 20 years ago and, using women’s language, had my fun 🙂

        In general, Central American women are not worth it. Believe me. I have been with tens and tens of them. But from time to time, you find nice women. They are not beautiful, in general. But there are exceptions. As foreigner, your SMV and MMV is higher than in your home country.

        Then, I found a woman 20 years my junior, raised in a very strict religious community (no make up allowed, no partying allowed, etc). We have 3 years of marriage and she worships me. A good wife. No drama at all. Very affectionate and peaceful. Hard-working. Not hot, though. Plain Jane.

        I think if it was not her, I wouldn’t have married. I was planning to spend my life alone because I hadn’t found nobody worthy of marriage, after 20 years in Central America. So it’s not “Poosy Paradise” to use the title of a book by the pre-conversion Roosh.

        Central American women are not as feminist as US women. But they are gold-diggers, drama queens and very hypergamous. They are good for a while.

        Many of them get pregnant very quickly by a macho man that disappears and then look for a nice man to marry. Then, they find a nice US man on the Internet, who marries them, takes them to the States and adopts their children. I have seen it once and again. The same way we are not sending our best workers, we are not sending you our best women either. But we love that you like them, because here these women are not marriageable. Everybody wins.

        Liked by 1 person

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      MOD don’t worry ”redpillers”&the rest of the west did’nt listen 10 years ago&neither will they listen now!But they think MEN out here are worried about getting married too?
      Only parents&the republican-democrat party are worried about men getting married to have fresh meat for the meat grinder,that this sphere use to talk about before DAL’ had to join the underground resistance with GBFM&other 1st GEN MGTOWS!

      Heres DAL’S comforting statics,last year at the federalist!
      https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/20/latest-marriage-data-suggests-dark-future-for-america-if-things-dont-change-fast/
      This part makes all colors of pills laugh:“The Demise of the Happy Two-Parent Home”

      All I&JASON see is still everybody telling MEN their SCUM period!Especialy when their sacred daughters&women at churchs that are supposedly ”married” to christ,start stalking us at home&workplaces&gyms!

      BEST the ‘ole GBFM the light- burden taskmaster!

      Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Fertility rate probably is a good SWAG as an estimate for how “feminist” women are. I mean at the national level not an individual woman’s fertility/situation (some women aren’t blessed with high fertility -not their fault). By that standard the least feminist women in the world are probably in a few Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Yemen?) and parts of Africa. I have no idea how sweet and submissive they are.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        I do disagree with one of the commenters there who seems to be implying that the reason for the lack of sweet and submissive woman in the West is gamma males in the West (don’t buy into Vox Day’s elaborate socio-sexual hierarchy scheme).

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Also I don’t think there was a time when the vast majority of women in the west (or maybe anywhere) were sweet and submissive. Women like men vary in personality – it’s not like the vast majority of men were ever alpha males.

        I think that sweetness, kindness whatever you call it is very attractive in a woman. As far as submissiveness – it’s not like I’d be looking for a woman that walks 20 feet behind me with her head held down and pisses herself when I address her. “Nice to me and my children” is good enough for me.

        But yeah, there are probably per capita more discontented witches than in the old days.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        “I do disagree with one of the commenters there who seems to be implying that the reason for the lack of sweet and submissive woman in the West is gamma males in the West ”

        This comment assumes a complete lack of agency on the woman’s part. “If only a man acted a certain way, then I would obey God’s commands for me in marriage and let my husband lead. But because the men of the west won’t lead the exact way I want them to, I won’t obey God’s commands.” If the husband is quieter and does not give a ton of instruction or direction then the wife has to be OK with that and submission for her may mean not acting on something. If she is unhappy with that and wants him to man up to lead the way she envisions or she takes the reigns herself, then she choose her mate poorly. Women have the choice and need to own responsibility for that choice even if it means that it is harder for her to follow God’s instructions for wives.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Do men marry foreign women and do oaky? Yes. Sometimes it is indeed love. My uncle married a woman from Thailand he met in 1970. Still married.

        I am getting tired of hearing how “Western women are all terrible, move to Eastern Euope, get a really good job, learn the language and you will have a billion or so young men just wanting you to marry them”

        On Dal’s forum, I was told by an idiot that “Polish women want to marry non-Polish men because Polish men are genetically Beta, not masculine and are not attractive to them”

        That’s funny, the only two countries of late that are daring to even challenge the EU are Poland and Hungary. Seeing the police, and military in action online in Poland, none of these men look genetically Beta. But hey….Roosh knows better than everyone now, he wrote a book about it…..

        I’m not saying what Elspeth has posted is a gold standard, but yeah…..a lot is made about all these beautiful, young, (cough) virginal eastern euopean women who only want men in the 40-50’s and they culturally find this very attractive, and they are between the ages of 18-25…just all there waiting for you. Don’t want to do this? “You’re a beta and probably gay because these women are hot, and you just need confidence, and you like whining”

        Thank you Elspeth for posting that.

        It goes back to the OP as well……this is not a viable solution for most men. It isn’t.

        Liked by 2 people

      • imnobody00 says:

        “a lot is made about all these beautiful, young, (cough) virginal eastern euopean women who only want men in the 40-50’s and they culturally find this very attractive, and they are between the ages of 18-25”

        To be fair, other cultures are more tolerant of age differences between husband and wife than the Western culture.

        It’s not that young women from other cultures think that a 40-50 y.o. man is hotter than a young man. This is ridiculous. But here in Central America, a difference of 10 years is completely normal. Nobody bats an eye. A difference of 20 years is not usual, but it is not extraordinary either.

        When I went back to my native Spain to get married to my now-wife, I noticed older women staring at my wife with complete disapproval. My wife thought that this was because she didn’t speak the language (I had to translate on the fly). But I knew that it was because of the age difference. In Spain, this is disgusting and I am an “asaltacunas” (craddle robber).

        I have wondered about this difference in cultures. I think it is due to the fact that Western culture was monogamous until recently. Older men marrying young women was not common because divorce was not common. So men married young (which I was unable to do) and they didn’t divorce, so there were not middle-aged men in the dating market. At least, this was the system in Spain.

        Now, I see more and more marriages with an age difference in Spain. Not as much difference and as common as in Central America, but they are increasing. I think it is the triumph of non-monogamy. Of course, this is a symptom of decline.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        @RPA, I agree a woman’s will and agency can have an effect on her striving for the “sweet and submissive” ideal. What I mainly disagree with is that women aren’t that way because of “gamma” males or whatever.

        A lot of this is natural temperament and also how a woman is raised (the example her mom shows, how much her deviation from this ideal is tolerated/encouraged by the parents, etc.). If there were no gamma males, women wouldn’t suddenly be “sweet and submissive.”

        I knew all 6 of my grandmothers/great grandmothers. I would describe 2 of them as “sweet and submissive”, 2 of them as “average” in that personality dimension, and 2 of them as “difficult” or “feisty.” The most beautiful one, one of my great grandmas, looked like a Hollywood actress and was quite “feisty.”

        Like

  7. elspeth says:

    My dad was 21 years older than my stepmother. They were married 35 years. My favorite uncle was 15 years older than his wife. They were married 54 years.We are perfectly okay with a 10-year age difference. I don’t think my husband could do a 20-year gap since he was 20 when our oldest was born. He maybe could, but he’s completely fine with 10 years.

    Like

  8. Lastmod says:

    “To be fair, other cultures are more tolerant of age differences between husband and wife than the Western culture.”

    There was almost twelve years between my mom and dad. This was 1964. Frowned upon by his family, and my mothers (and her family was 3,000 miles across the Atlantic).

    Eastern European women don’t find it okay to marry a man ten notches below them looks wise because of “culture”…

    They do it in the way we are talking about because most, I said most… not all… of these men are VERY gullible, thirsty, and have been told Red Pill (???) lies that women don’t care about looks, and here is a non-American female giving them attention… It must be their amazing confidence, their “game”, their charisma, and masculine pursuits! Rollo was right!

    Wrong.

    This mail order bride thing with Polish women, or women from Krakolividad…… is a scam. Usually involving the loss of money like Elspeth’s article mentioned, or for a Green Card and access to get out of the hellhole where they live (Ukraine, cold winters, shared toilets, doomer Soviet era housing….. bad food, Polish food is the most terrible thing to eat. I’d leave because of that alone). She’ll play along for a while, just long enough until she can set up her options, and then suddenly divorce, or disappear.

    This is the male equivalent of the Nigerian Prince Scam / Nigerian Millionaire that women fall for. So many men, even after a divorce and loss of money, get right back into this again looking for some other woman to to get involved with overseas. Women do the same thing with these Nigerian scams.

    My good friend, you also said you didn’t do this “mail order bride” thing. You had lived there for a long time and met someone. I’m glad.

    I get one of these YouTube ads daily of “young Polish women just want to meet an older guy like you” and all of them look like supermodels…… and spare me the faith angle….. If she was into her faith, she wouldn’t be barely clad nor sexually posing herself for you to get behind her.

    I lived in India, I saw ages differences as well……. What you don’t mention is that many of these marriages are ARRANGED and have a price on the gal for this marriage. That’s why its “tolerant” or “tolerated”.

    Liked by 3 people

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      All conservative-liberal feminists will start encouraging younger women to ”price marry” older men in the U.S. once the real squeeze on the money carousel of college-government begins within the next 10 years!

      How is big feminism going to last until the final curtain without another huge transfer of assets from foolish men to women?

      Like

      • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

        Aaron sleazy&I always said you have be at least average looking at best! But we’re evil minimalists! Barebones gamers for all the studying by the books studs in training!!!

        Click to access Aaron.Sleazy.Minimal.Game.Sample.pdf


        This is for the typical male concern: ”Not getting a lot of women&not really knowing” as how Aaron says! This is more options than the first MGTOW preached then&now!!!
        You know Aaron was a moderator at PUAHate, right Jason? He will show you how to get high value ho’s!

        Like

    • cameron232 says:

      “Red Pill lies that women don’t care about looks.”

      I think of that as Blue Pill – I can’t imagine anyone would think that. High school disproved that. I was late to Red Pill. Must have been some °PUA game scam thing I missed out on.

      From my perspective, Red Pill is that women like good looking men who are kinda jerks better than average looking nice guys.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        For a LONG time, the Red Pill said, “looks don’t matter to women” then it changed to, “well, a little”, and now it’s accepted as truth that they do matter to women. I watched the transition over the past decade or so. You were Blue Pill or a “defeatist” if you said such a thing ten / eleven years ago. This is why Red Pill theory makes me angry.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        Lastmod,
        I would guess that Red Pill theory makes everyone angry at first, but eventually some men accept it as true, at least more true than their previous Blue Pill world concept, and learn to adjust.

        With all due respect, do you think of yourself as an incel, volcel, MGTOW, or something else? What is your current estimation of the Red Pill?

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Lastmod is basically right about this. There was a period where the redpill gurus sold a snake oil of maximizing your other qualities. They would put pics of 5’4″ ogres holding hands walking down the street with hotties.

        I hate to say this, because it makes me sound conceited. But I KNOW that being 6’2″ fit, having a symmetrical face with a jaw line, darkish eastern European skin has made it very easy for me.

        Even back in the hey day of online dating, between my marriages. Just 4-5 pictures of me on my profile page, a couple of witty lines and I could book every Friday until eternity with a date if I wanted.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Scott says:

        Also–during that time I was in graduate school and had ZERO money. And I made that clear from the start. It was never an issue. So it wasn’t “status” or money.

        Liked by 3 people

      • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

        Heres a good redpill dad teaching looks&game!
        https://redpilldad.blog/2019/04/03/back-to-square-one-and-how-much-do-looks-matter-vs-game/
        So on the one hand, f@ck yeah, give yourself the best chance possible of opening the door via looks: LIFT!!!! Wear cool clothes–have a style–take care of grooming, etc.
        See how easy it is jason?Just a shower&afew other things will get everyguy laid!!!

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Scott its not conceited to say that. What is conceited is if someone said, “looks don’t matter to women” while being an above average attractive guy. That fuels the burn and anger in the pit when I hear attractive guys say that. Which most if not all DID in the red-pilled world back then.

        Wasn’t it John Lennon…. a very rich pop / rock star by the time the Beatles split up… said in his song, “Imagine”…

        “Imagine no possessions…”

        Yeah, okay John. Love your music, and humor…. but stop the preaching… for a man who had LOTS of possessions, had a HUGE estate in England (Tittenhurst) at the time, and could travel anywhere.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        What would be an interesting debate: “Do looks matter more to men or to women?” I suspect Nova would have some interesting thoughts on that. Wonder where he is?

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Redpill is seeing through the lie that Julia would have left handsome, rich, jerky Glenn Goolia for Robbie Hart (because he’s so sweet and funny and Glenn is a bit of jerk!) in the movie “The Wedding Singer.”

        Redpill is seeing through the lie that some guy wrote in my HS yearbook: “Stay sweet and the girls will love you to death.”

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Cameron —

        Or any number of other movies with similar storylines.

        Spindly armed, sunken chested Ralph Machio with cute curvy Elizabeth Shue? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        The list is endless.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Scott says:

        Porn star bodied Leah Thompson with squeaky voiced, wrong side of the tracks and weird tomboy best friend Eric Stolz??

        I mean COME ON.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        @Scott, what was Red Pill? – Fast Times at Ridgemont High?

        Sweet, innocent Jennifer Jason Leigh loses her virginity and gets knocked up by the jerkoff, wheeler-and-dealer, ticket scalper guy. He says to her, “It ain’t mine, tough rocks!” After she aborts the baby, she gets with the nerdy guy who looks and sounds like Henry Winkler (not the Fonz), ‘cause he’s so supportive ‘N stuff.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Oh, and sure. Total fail of masculinity John Cryer, after pining for two hours over moderately cute Molly Rignwald attracts the attention of super adorable and bouncy Christy Swanson with his eclectic look and stupid hair.

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Leah Thompson had sex with Howard the Duck – but he was an alpha – LoL!!!

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Right.

        If Duckie Game worked, men everywhere would be lined up around the block at thrift stores to update their wardrobes and dancing and lip-synching to motown records.

        Women all over the world would be powerless against its allure. Lying on their backs with their feet up in the air with no idea how to control themselves. “More Otis! More Otis!”

        Lame

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        No dude – I mean Lea did it with Howard the Duck in the movie of that title. Howard was a stud unlike Duckie from Pretty in Pink. Interspecies sex.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_the_Duck_(film)

        Like

      • thedeti says:

        Redpill is seeing through the lie that Julia would have left handsome, rich, jerky Glenn Goolia for Robbie Hart (because he’s so sweet and funny and Glenn is a bit of jerk!) in the movie “The Wedding Singer.”

        (And Some Kind of Wonderful, and Karate Kid, and Pretty in Pink)

        Redpill is seeing through the lie that some guy wrote in my HS yearbook: “Stay sweet and the girls will love you to death.”

        Don’t forget Say Anything where babyface John Cusack does the ultimate in creepy by going to ex GF Ione Skye’s house at 10 pm holding up a boombox blasting “In Your Eyes” by Peter Gabriel – and this is touted as the very pinnacle in sexual attractiveness and relationship skill.

        All true. Except maybe for Karate Kid – Daniel had some Game and was nice enough looking. Don’t know about Some Kind of Wonderful – that film is now on my “need to watch” list.

        The thing is that this was the cultural zeitgeist circa 1977-1990. This is what boys were being raised on. This is what boys were being told to do and be. This – especially Say Anything – was held up as the gold standard for how women wanted to be treated and swooned over and claimed moistened their nether regions. Pure bunk, every last bit of it. Red Pill showed it for the BS it is. This isn’t how you get attractive. This was just how women wanted sexy men who are already attractive to act towards them, and them alone. “I want a guy who could totally cheat on me anytime he wants, but he doesn’t.” “I want a guy who is nice to me and is a total A-hole to everyone else.” That was, and still is, the truth.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Deti

        All true. Except maybe for Karate Kid – Daniel had some Game and was nice enough looking.

        Daniel definitely had a shot after winning the tournament.

        “The Last American Virgin”… now that is a brutally honest movie.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        @Cam

        what was Red Pill?

        Oscar reminded me of it: The Last American Virgin. As brutally Red Pill as it gets. Every man should see it.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    JASON heres some good DAL’posts on similar topics!
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/04/27/the-love-of-a-virtuous-pagan-woman-tames-the-beast-inside/
    &
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/04/26/rules-for-dating-a-daughter-of-the-king/
    Somebody on that one mentioned this I thought verboten word:Feminazi!
    LOLZLOLZ!

    Like

  10. Scott says:

    The more coaching I do, and the more I write around the sphere, the more I think I should tag my business, “Practical skills and conversations for not being such a dumbass.”

    Liked by 3 people

  11. Lastmod says:

    Jack said and then posed:

    “I would guess that Red Pill theory makes everyone angry at first, but eventually some men accept it as true, at least more true than their previous Blue Pill world concept, and learn to adjust.

    With all due respect, do you think of yourself as an incel, volcel, MGTOW, or something else? What is your current estimation of the Red Pill?”

    That is a good question… and to ask me? Thank you. Something I must have said above must have struck you as interesting.

    Red Pill (to me) is Game 2.0. It still talks about the truth of most modern women in theory, but all it really says is Game / PUA stuff. Still talks about “how” to get women. How to vett the Unicorn that evidently doesn’t exist. How to date them. What women find attractive. What kind of men women find attractive. How to be masculine. How to talk to them (and that again is straight out of all Game and PUA manuals, v-blogs, podcasts…). Red Pill ASSUMES a man has a great sex life and dating life. Red Pill assumes all women are peg boards. “If she says this, it means this…” and “If she does this, it means this…”. And then, the usual banter of “I am more Red Pill than you because…” type of convos.

    Rollo recently mentioned on one of his podcasts about men “being part of tribe” and then he added, “Us, here right now, we’re part of a tribe, we’re having a discussion…”

    Clueless. No your highness, you are having a self-affirming / agreeing with each other conversation. That is not being a part of a tribe.

    I would probably call myself “Black Pill” but in general, I just fall under the large MGTOW umbrella. I like some aspects of Black Pill for the fact, it does help many men (especially older nobs like myself) gently accept that it is indeed “over” for you concerning women. Red Pill would tell me / show me “another new and bold way to get women to like me” or tell me I am “Beta, blue pilled, lazy, supplicating, and that is why I am single.”

    Red Pill now says openly looks DO matter to women, and you as a man can fix that, go to the gym, looksmaxx and “I know a shorter than average guy… He did this, and that, just followed Rollo / DS and read these other books…. Now he is dating nines and tens!”

    First, even if that IS true. He is an outlier. Secondly, this is again EXACTLY what Game says and has been saying since 1999. Red Pill still worships the sex act over anything else.

    Black Pill at least says, “Hey, better get going on getting going. Time is running out on life now. You have other things to do now.”

    Which was some of the most soothing commentary I have ever heard. They’re right. Now, I don’t think or believe a 22 year old man should be Black Pilled unless he is disfigured, or a one or two on the looks scale. Men like this WOULD be wasting their time trying to be like you Red Pill men here. That would make him suicidal. With that said, most men should not go Black Pill until they get into their thirties. For many in my situation, it was indeed OVER back then.

    Faking King Rollo says,

    “Black Pill is just “go and kill yourself!”

    First, that is a horrid, rotten low blow to men. For a man like himself who has Internet fame, has no problems dating and bedding women, and has NEVER considered taking his own life, this is really nasty, and it shows Red Pill men in general as cold, callous and cruel.

    Black Pill has saved more men’s lives than Red Pill ever has. Black Pill tells you it’s over, get on… Deal with it and find something else. Red Pill will continue to give false hope to / about women and then smear, neg, and call you out as “not trying hard enough / simp / chump / beta / pedestalizing women / supplicating”, when all these techniques don’t work. Cause they don’t for most men.

    I will admit, some aspects of Black Pill bother me. I don’t like how these men fall into the same trap as MGTOW, Incels, and Red Pill……….. “Women this, women that… I’m done, now lets talk about them all day long” kind of thing.

    Go camping. Go ride a horse, go indeed get those (cough) masculine pursuits that women find irresistible in a man (what an effing crock). Men like me, or similar need to do something they like for the sake of doing it, not to get attention from women. Something Red Pill and Game don’t practice. Everything is for getting female attention. And we think women are neurotic????

    Anyway… That the basics. It’s not that I hate you guys. Cause I don’t. I just think Red Pill is still in many ways acting like its 2009 still. A blatant shift from “Looks don’t matter to women” to “Yes, looks matter, get LAMPS / PSALMS / workout cause they love muscles”, and at the same time says, “Red Pill is science and fact” is kind of a crock, and it was a sneaky change.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      “I am more Red Pill than you because…”

      I’ve called it the “Red Pill pissing contest” on here – “My Pill’s Redder than your Pill”. This is men, right? We have to out do each other – Ironically the instinct is there because of competition over women. If you think it’s bad on RP sites, try reading the neoreactionary crowd. You’ll see this on political sites too, BTW.

      “For a man like himself who has Internet fame, has no problems dating and bedding women …”

      Has anyone really verified this? How do we know if Rollo, Roissy, and Roosh’s stories of “success with women aren’t total BS???

      “I will admit, some aspects of Black Pill bother me. I don’t like how these men fall into the same trap as MGTOW, Incels, and Red Pill……….. ”Women this, women that… I’m done, now lets talk about them all day long” kind of thing.”

      That’s probably because they’re not “done with them” psychologically speaking. Most people are probably happier pair-bonded to a member of the opposite sex which marriage 1.0 attempted to accomplish.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        “Has anyone really verified this? How do we know if Rollo, Roissy and Roosh’s stories of “success with women aren’t total BS???”

        BAM!

        This is what I suspect and never talk about.

        I have never described myself as the colossal chick magnet they do. But I’m real. And at any time, any ex of mine could show up and be questioned by the panel.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Roissy and Roosh do. I don’t know whether Rollo claims to have bedded lots of chicks. I watched one or two videos with Rollo a couple of years ago. He comes off as a nasally-voiced wimp. If he claims he’s a successful ladies man I think that’s BS.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        I can believe Roissy and Roosh both have an N count above 100. Rollo has been married for many years, and I don’t get the impression that he is still in the game. He is going off his professional expertise in intersexual psychoanalytics and evolutionary psychology, which I think is quite insightful, impressive even, but not very accurate from a spiritual standpoint. The thing I don’t get about Rollo is that he’s in his late 50s (I guess), married, out of the game, but he is dressing like a college punk and talking about getting laid. I guess it’s for marketing his image to the younger set.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Sure I COULD believe it but I don’t necessarily. Has anyone actually met Roissy? Scott met Jason, they’re real people.

        People have met Roosh – he looks like an average dude. I guess his whole thing was that game works – see – I’m an average guy and it works for me. But Rollo and Roosh sell books, monetize things. They’re incentivized to craft a brand and an image.

        I could have an easier time believing Roissy because he doesn’t seem to be selling things. “Jim” likes to talk about how he’s an old fat guy but he’s waking up right now as he types next to some young, hot Asian girl because of his understanding of game. I’ve seen guys here brag about how they’re around chicks daily who are hotter than the pics of the girls you post here. Sometimes your BS alarm goes off.

        Liked by 1 person

      • elspeth says:

        One thing I have always admired about SAM is that he has always been pretty tight-lipped about his dating life pre-marriage. His male relatives and longtime friends were never shy about dropping hints:

        “I ran into so and so and she asked about you…”
        “Do you remember whateverhernamewas from this or that party?”
        “I wonder what happened to your old girlfriend whatsherface?”

        Stuff like that.

        I didn’t really let on that it bugged me (even though it did), but he hated it. Has always hated it. When he got married, he took that seriously, and had no intention (for very concrete reasons) of ever making his wife feel as though she had to worry about his fidelity. It was bad enough to him that I was being forced to deal with an ex due to circumstances that would not change.

        I don’t know how men who have literally kissed and told nearly every sordid detail of their lives -not even anonymously in many cases- expect to ever have a normal marriage, which I assume Roosh hopes to do at some point.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Well that sounds like you got yourself a good man Elspeth. He obviously cares about your heart.

        Liked by 1 person

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      GAME&other variants were never realy to help outliers like I&scott!DETI has said this many times that it was mainly just to get a guy that had been taught to never talk to these earth angel women out here!

      Talking to anybody has never been a problem for myself,but most men under 40 especialy have trouble since lovely-blue&redpill dad-approved things like VAWA in ’94&”yes means yes” in cali in ’14?Why are masculine dads so quite on these things,while blaming men?

      Also blackie lawless of WASP(In 96/97) talked about how hypocritical john lennon was in the imagine ”promo film”!You also know it was a commenter on DAL’ that first gave us the term blackpil.jason?Thats where white&nerdy/omegavirginrevolt got it from!

      Thats right DAL’s mainly manly married dads forum gave birth to the blackpill term!
      As usual redpillers tell young men your not doing it right!While their marriage game crumbled to the ground along with civilization!
      Now I have to get back to masculine hobbies&pursuits!!!

      Like

  12. Lastmod says:

    Well Cameron, my time in MGTOW / Incel forums over the years….. and I hate to say this……. but honestly, many of the men in Incel forums, Black Pill and some areas of MGTOW………

    Even if they were better looking, many still would be empty, angry…… They would find something / someone “else” to blame as to why they were not getting even more, having more. It’s tiresome. The guys I admired in the MGTOW chats I have spoken with in video and by reply like here over the years……. Well, they are no longer there, or rarely post…….. or only when they have down time in between what they are doing for the fact of:

    They got what they needed, and indeed…… went their own way. Did they “become” ladies men? Doubtful. Maybe a few met a gal. Who knows. Maybe, just maybe a few indeed went their own way, and left the rest to rot and burn.

    Good for them right? I guess I can’t be annoyed at that. I just like and miss some of the virtual friendships I made in those early days. It helped.

    As for all the “Red Pill” experts? In general I believe them, and I think many wanted to help at first. Then it became charts, graphs, studies, made-up new terms, psychobabble… and you were made a fool if you dared question anything. I can’t stand Rollo. Yes, I read his book. Half of what he says could be lifted out of a GQ or Esquire magazine from 1960 about women. But its “new” and “revolutionary”!

    Whatever. This is where I feel incredibly stupid around you all. I cannot grasp some of these terms, applications and “Rules for thee, but not for me” kind of thing. I get too lost. I blame below average intelligence…… Thus making Red Pill for “above average, intelligent, good looking men” shutting out a vast swath of men who just didn’t make the “genetic cut”.

    You will all say it isn’t that, but it comes off that way at times. A lot of time honestly.

    Black Pill will say, “Yeah, you are ugly / unattractive… So am I….. So….. What do you do next? You’re 40, 38, 49, 52, 31 and nothing has worked……. You’re ugly. Gotta deal. No, not shaming you. Telling the truth. So am I, here is my pic. Yeah, You’re not alone. How do we get by, survive and enjoy life?”

    I believe most men when they talk about all the women they have had. What I don’t believe is “She was a nine, banged a six last night. This eight came on to me”, and I see his current wife, and she is about a four or three….

    Methinks most of the women they did get were not nines and tens, and eights when he himself is about a 5.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Sorry but there’s no way you are below average in intelligence. You can’t make six figures at IBM in the early 2000s and be below average intelligence. Nor do you argue on here like a below average intelligence person.

      There is a lot of jargon. I think some of it is useful. Yes, even some of it that Rollo has introduced (he’s not my favorite).

      I don’t try to coach other men because I have no clue what I am doing. When an attractive girl approaches me at work to talk about business or occasionally personal stuff I am nervous as hell. I literally start sweating down my back.

      The crowd here seems different. Almost every guy is divorced, or almost divorced with a bad marriage, etc. Even Scott got screwed by his ex and it affects him, as he has said.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Dumb as rocks Cameron. I got addicted to cocaine, and alcohol. I was raised better and knew better. I didn’t get into a top tier undergrad, I had to settle for an okay private liberal arts college that is now sadly gone. The skills I have are useless. I can make a good cup of coffee. I like music, and I can dance to classic sixties soul better than many black Americans can. I have a frightful work ethic, that saved me at IBM. It would take me thrice as long to get the same job done as another man with better intelligence……but I did it. I was salaried, so I HAD to come in on weekends to get the work done. I had to stay later. Most men in my dept worked 9-5 had the work done. I didn’t. Not that smart.

        I still get lost on conceptual thinking (so I must be a beta, cause real men are linear and logical right?). When I was a christian, I had to reead, and re-read and reade and still was lost when the other men were telling me what this king meant, or what jesus said….and I wasn’t getting that.

        I do know my social / emotional IQ is WAY lower than most men, and I took J Peterson’s test / scale and my empathy is off the charts for a man. I blame that on a special need older brother. I saw the cruelty in people at a young age.

        Just messed up. I was soomed with women probably since my teens. Not angry about it anymore. But what can I do about it now? Really nothing. Maybe that is growth. Accepting finally what you are and are not and going from there.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        A man who is 6’3″, made six figures in the ’90s at IBM, and competed in college sports is no where near average.

        Being 6’3″ by itself places a man in the 99th percentile in the US.

        The median household income in 1995 was under $40K. Making six figures back then placed a man well above the 95th percentile.

        According to the NCAA, there are about 480,000 college athletes right now. That’s 0.15% of the US population.

        That ain’t average.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        I went to community college and then transferred to an average state college. I dropped out of the physics program my senior year (not for bad grades for personal reasons). I never made it back – that’s why I still don’t make six figures.

        You can be smart and become an addict.

        Beta as I use it shouldn’t be an insult (self or directed at others). There’s alphas who are the top men who are viscerally attractive to most women. Betas are men who have much lower attractiveness (some qualities women like) to most women.

        I keep saying this but when men in the sphere use “beta” they’re implying that they’re an alpha which isn’t usually true. Alphas don’t sit around writing about this stuff in the sphere. When they say beta they probably mean something like “blue pill” or “SIMP.”

        Empathy is a good thing – your brother – but I also think some of that is inborn.

        Liked by 2 people

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      Here thebest commentary on GAME from old commenter YBM on blackpill/freedom from the gynocracy blog on 11/17/2012! ”Its funny, the majority of people who call us ‘anti-gamers’ sit around yelling about $hit they don’t even understand.
      There is 5-10% of good content in PUA, RSD, Game in general.
      Its the 90-95% that is bull$#it that we attack. And we are called anti-gamers because of it.
      The problem is that the 5-10% of good stuff has been discussed over and over again and is almost 100% mainstream advice: look good, be outgoing, stand up for yourself, pursue women you want, test boundaries when its appropriate, and be happy with yourself.

      The problem is that you can’t sell books peddling what everyone already knows and can find out for free. So all this ‘red pill’ nonsense needs to be tacked on to make it more complex than it really is.

      Judicial and social reform as done by the MRA on the other hand, is the REAL red pill. But doing that involves not being an anonymous game blogger, and putting time and/or effort into the REAL world, not the blogsphere.”

      Now does everybody understand I&JASONs understanding of game now!? This is my 133rd comment here as jack said earlier!!!

      Like

  13. Oscar says:

    Alright, I’m back. What did I miss?

    Liked by 2 people

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      Nothing, just more food fights in the cafeteria as usual!

      Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      Oscar. – welcome back. Had been wondering where you’d been. Now we just need Nova back and the Heman woman haters club will be complete.

      You just missed me striving to win most prolific commenter two years in a row.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        Thanks, dude.

        The wife and I tried – and failed – to make some business moves, so I had to concentrate on that for a while. We’re in pick-yourself-up-and-dust-yourself-off mode right now, but I still have my job, and we didn’t take on any debt, so we’ll be fine. Lessons learned, and all that.

        On the plus side, she’s having a baby next month. Another girl. That’ll be 6 girls and 4 boys.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Awesome bud- congrats! I wish we could have more girls. We’re skewed: 6 boys 2 girls and I think age is gonna cause her to close up shop.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        Thanks again. I was really hoping for another boy. That would’ve given us 5 boys, 5 girls, 5 biological, 5 adopted. What can I say? I like symmetry.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        Cameron wrote,

        “You just missed me striving to win most prolific commenter two years in a row.”

        The Top 5 commenters count for 2021 (as of today) is…
        cameron232 — 221
        professorGBFMtm2021 — 132
        Lastmod — 106
        thedeti — 96
        Scott – 86

        No worries Cameron! You’re way ahead!

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Man, I gotta big mouth – I’m really introverted in real life! I tried to start this comment thread off with something relevant to the OP – it’s easy to get distracted.

        Liked by 2 people

  14. Lastmod says:

    Oscar. Welcome back. Congrats.

    I made six figures, but that was the hyper-inflated dot.com San Francisco cost of living. Anywhere else it would have been considered an average job / average income. I do have two patents, but that is not from intelligence. It was from common “horse sense”

    The failure rate on our actuators in San Jose was mind boggling in 1996. They had the wash, and drying and then a “hand cleaning of acetone by workers. After going over the stats, I just told the line manager in production “Hey how about you swap these operations. Hand clean and detail, then the wash and dry.

    Failure rate dropped by almost 90% within a week. It was something the engineers missed. No one could grapple as to why. It just took a fresh pair of eyes to come up to the production line and “look”

    I was paid almost 75K for that idea. Most of that went up my nose if truth be told.

    The second one was a tool I built at home, in the late 1990’s many businesses were still using IBM tape drive storage systems. Durable and reliable still; still had a place and use back then in the market…..the canisters had a metal ribbon on them to keep the “tape” sealed when transporting. People were using knives, pens, anything to slip this metal band off. I made a tool that would slip under the metal band, just roll it forward, and it would easily flip and peel off the casing. I submitted it. IBM bought the idea / invention for 20K.

    I do remember clearing off a debt, and going to Seattle for my vacation that year to hang out…yeah, a ton of white stuff went up my nose with that as well…..so embarrassing

    My IQ I have had tested three times. First time, a 91. Second time, 92, and third time 91. I am on the lower scale / end of average intelligence. This was the Stanford-Binet 1973r.

    I was on the college ski /alpine team. We were NCCA III. Tiny colleges. Nothing spectacular about me on the slopes. Basically at colleges like this if you “show up” you’re in. Still miss skiing Killington though. Fun times.

    Yes, I am taller than average. Means zilch of you don’t have the face / looks to back it up. The only plus it has given me over the decades, and I have done this intentionally and unintentionally is that I have used my height to intimidate people. It has worked.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Oscar says:

      My IQ I have had tested three times. First time, a 91. Second time, 92, and third time 91. I am on the lower scale / end of average intelligence. This was the Stanford-Binet 1973r.

      Was that before, or after the drugs? Because, if it was before, then I hate to break it to you, but whoever tested you did it wrong. People with 91 IQ don’t get hired to do the things you described above. They certainly don’t get paid what you claim you got paid. I work in manufacturing now. It just doesn’t happen.

      I was on the college ski /alpine team. We were NCCA III. Tiny colleges. Nothing spectacular about me on the slopes. Basically at colleges like this if you “show up” you’re in.

      By contrast, I couldn’t even get onto the track, or cross country teams at the community college I attended.

      Yes, I am taller than average.

      You’re not just taller than average. You’re taller than 99 percent of American men.

      You were gifted with above average height.

      You were gifted with above average intelligence.

      You were gifted with above average athleticism.

      Life ain’t fair, is it?

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        A doctorate level professor at Skidmore College administered mine in the psychology dept. He had extensive work in testing and measurements. He also administered the tests and other batteries to my older brother in the late 1960’s as a toddler, and thru the 1970’s. I had to pay for this exam btw.

        The second time was by a graduate student at the Univeristy of Vermont. She was running a practice so she could gain experience in her internship.

        The last time was at IBM, my coworker a psychologist in the (User Centered Design) UCD dept, statistics and human computer interface labs. The first time was before I took LSD, or smoke marijuana. The second and third time were both post LSD use. I had not started using cocaine until 1996.

        Pretty confident of / by the results

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        To be real……a community college would have much more competition than my tiny college in rural Vermont of 600 students Oscar

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        John Boyd the fighter pilot famous for the ooda loop was a genius who revolutionized air combat. He supposedly tested in the 90s.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ Jason

        a community college would have much more competition than my tiny college in rural Vermont of 600 students Oscar

        Not in the rural Pacific Northwest.

        Face it, dude. You were blessed with gifts most men were not.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        Pretty confident of / by the results

        Yeah, well, I don’t know those guys, but I know Scott. I trust his judgement. Your confidence in those tests does help explain a lot, though.

        Like

    • Scott says:

      91 would be a pretty big surprise to me. I would estimate your FSIQ to be somewhere in the 115–125 range. And I do this for a living.

      Like

      • Oscar says:

        And that’s after the drugs.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        You know…I think I may still have the sheet and raw score and paperwork from these. Scott, give me a day or two…if I have them, I would be happy to have you look them over…you know…in the name of science / study. I would blot out my SSN and the like.

        Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      No offense but that’s as hard to believe as deep strength saying he weighed 110 pounds after HS. My 11 year old son weighs 115 and hes not fatboy. That’s like pituitary malfunction territory.

      Like

  15. Lastmod says:

    Hey…to the lower 80% of men, this is what many man-o-spherians come off as. Anyway….some commentary and a clip from the best trash talk show ever. The UK’s The Jeremy Kyle show, its all in good fun. This is my lower-class me coming out. I love shows like this. Language warning.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Random Angeleno says:

    Black pilled here.

    I have a good friend who is 6-2 and blonde. He has no problem lining up dates when he’s online. I saw this years ago even when Red Pill coaches were at the height of their yammering on about how looks don’t matter. Looks are not everything, that is true, but online, they are the number one attribute to have when it comes to getting a man’s foot in the door. In real life, charisma and context help but they don’t translate well online.
    It is what it is.

    I have been to Asia and can say Asian women may be less fat, but otherwise they are not all that much better. There is no substitute for frame.

    I once lived in London many years ago, just after my divorce was settled. Best dates were foreign born. Worst dates were white British born. Limited sample to be sure, but still …

    Liked by 3 people

  17. feeriker says:

    Inre snide comments at parents over large numbers of kids: is any more conclusive proof needed that Americans hate kids and see them as at best a necessary evil and at worst as a curse and a scourge?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      I get “have you figured out what causes that yet?” all the time. My stock answer is, “I think it has something to do with deployments”.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        There is no perfect response to this. But I sometimes wonder if there is some hint of jealousy at how much sex you are having within your marriage. (It actually takes quite a lot to make a pregnancy, unless you just happen to hit the target by chance.)

        Of course I understand the cause. What were you guys doing last night?

        Liked by 1 person

  18. Lastmod says:

    Okay Oscar, you’re back for a few hours and begin knit-picking with me. Great. That says a lot about who you are. You just don’t like me. The feeling is mutual.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      Nope. You missed the point.

      You frequently refer to yourself as a “dumbass”. Have you ever noticed that no one here has ever referred to you as such? Have you ever noticed that no one here has ever agreed with you when you refer to yourself as a “dumbass”.

      It’s because you aren’t.

      Like I said, you were blessed with gifts most men were not. It’s kind of difficult to capitalize on gifts you refuse to see.

      Liked by 1 person

  19. cameron232 says:

    Can I be the peacemaker? I had such high hopes.

    I think part of what he maybe was saying is you have unwarranted low self esteem which may have caused some of your problems. Since you have been through so much self examination I’m not going to presume to tell you what happened with your life. Oscar shouldn’t either doesnt really help. Sometimes guys just wanna blow off steam – I read your stuff – all of it.

    Anyway I’m an amiable kinda dude so its cool when we’re all bros.

    Like

    • Lastmod says:

      cameron, this has been going on since 2012? 2013?

      I could say “its a good day” and he would find something wrong with it. Unwarrented low-self esteem? No. I am pretty realistic about where I stand in the world, and have been for a long time now. I know what I am, and am not 😉

      The IQ tests are accurate…..Oscar cannot believe that someone in the average range of intelligence can have a good life. He honestly believes people in my scale have to be the guy who cleans the toilet. He also believes IQ is the ‘end all’ of the world. Lowe rIQ….you do this. Higher IQ, you are permitted to be an ass.

      That kind of thing. Sad really. He’ll be okay

      Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Guess I thought he was putting a positive spin. Like how you’re six three. Funny as a five ten teenager (didn’t grow an micron after 15) I always fantasized about being a tall dude.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        I grew three inches in 1986, got really sick…well, just achy and more awkward than usual. When it came to women. My height never helped me.

        I will admit, when I do meet someone who is taller than me, it is strange to “look up” at someone. Part of the reason I bought a Volkswagen Jetta is because its comfortable to drive for my height and I didn’t have to go luxury / higher end or trim line to get this.

        When I was younger, just wish I had that better face with the arrogance to go with it. I also wish I was allowed to have more of a social life instead of taking care of a sick brother…….that would have helped too 😉

        Liked by 1 person

  20. Pingback: Word from the Dark Side – sea shanty, Saffo strife, Zulu supremacism and sleep safely | SovietMen

  21. luisman says:

    What we forget is, that the world was much smaller 60 years ago. Here in the Philippines it still is, at least for most of the rural poor. People just don’t get around that much, as they can’t afford the trip. A lot of the rural people haven’t even been to the provincial capital. So, selection is limited to the people in the neighborhood. That never stopped the girls getting pregnant at 16 and being married off by their parents. If this didn’t work (the upper class parents don’t let their kids marry lower class), they got paid off and go to Manila, Cebu or Angeles, etc. to find work, to pay their parents/siblings for taking care of the bastard, and to continue playing musical dicks (in private or as prostitutes). That’s how we expats here get some very cute ladies, who are morally bottom of the barrel. A few expats are dumb and desperate enough to marry a whore anyway. At least they then have something to complain about every afternoon in the beer bar 🙂 Anyway, my point is that having more choices doesn’t always translate into making better choices.

    The lockdowns made the world a lot smaller again, which may cause an uptick in locals marrying locals. This means the current status of super-hypergamy can be reversed, by methods we couldn’t even imagine 18 months ago. I’m not in favour of lockdowns. I’m just saying, that we seek solutions from our current (or 2019) perspective, and may not be able to envision better solutions. Who knows how attitudes will change, if some things that are looming at the horizon come true – like food shortages, massive inflation, permanent riots, wars, etc.

    Liked by 2 people

  22. Scott says:

    “Self esteem”

    Is a tricky subject. My understanding of it is it’s based on something tangible and builds on itself.

    This is the reason that just trying to imbue it upon children in the 80’s and 90’s has been such a failure. You cannot tell someone they are great. They must do something great and then you can encourage them to do more greatness.

    Finished my AA in 1993 and I thought I had hit the absolute zenith of my personal academic potential. But then I looked out in front of me and thought, “Well, if I can do that, why can’t I finish my BS?”

    You can engage in endless rubrics and algorithms of pros/cons. Convince yourself that you can or cannot do it. But the only thing that will give you the confidence to it is looking back at what you already know you can do, and visualizing the next thing, overcoming the next hurdle.

    This type of visualizing is precisely the way I have accomplished everything I have so far. I conceptualize it as a form of muscle memory, except for your mind. I imagine that the thing I am setting out to do/get/accomplish is already done. Then I strip away everything that is not in the service of that thing–including time. I transcend all of it until it is done.

    By any statistical prediction, I should not be where I am. I do not come from the type of family of origin that would incubate this. Like Vincent Freeman from “Gattaca,” I have not saved anything–not one stroke for the swim back.

    Like

  23. feeriker says:

    “John Boyd the fighter pilot, famous for the ooda loop, was a genius who revolutionized air combat. He supposedly tested in the 90s.”

    There are many such examples, in both directions. This is why I’ve generally considered IQ tests to be bullsh!t.

    Like

    • Scott says:

      I’m not I would classify them as BS.

      They are a test, a screening measure- and when used as one item in an array of other tools, they can be very useful in predicting the kinds of outcomes needed to preserve precious resources.

      They (along with more precisely targeted neuropsychological batteries) can also give us an idea of a person’s psychological functionality. For example, it can give insights about a person’s pre-morbid functioning and/or how well they are recovering from an insult to the brain.

      When subtests are interpreted by a competent psychologist, they can even tell us WHERE to look for the insult in a scan.

      I think what people get wrapped around the axle about is when they think they are being judged too harshly by the number it provides. They take it personally.

      You have to go through screening measures to be a cop, firefighter, have a TS clearance, get into graduate school, be allowed to be around children, etc. Included in those screenings are things that predict outcomes. Credit score, criminal record, known associates, IQ, other aptitude tests whatever.

      Without actuarial data we would be flying blind trying to make these decisions and accurately diagnosing people.

      Like

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