Social Authenticity Proof: Giving Women Attention

Anonymous testimonies of faith within the context of intersexual reciprocity.

Readership: Men; Christian Men;
Theme: Giving the gift of yourself to others.
Reader’s Note: This post contains a collection of reader’s viewpoints and testimonies that have been shared with me privately through email. Lightly edited for ease of reading.
Length: 2,600 words
Reading Time: 9 minutes

Introduction

An elderly lady once told this little story in a conversational English class at my church.

“When I was a teenage girl, I hated to receive attention from men.  It made me feel dirty and disgusting.  Then one day, an older woman told me, “[Those men] love you so much!  Why should you hate them and treat them badly just because they love you?  Instead, you should be nice to them.” I thought she was right, and so I changed my mind about this. After I married and grew older, I started to realize more and more how stupid I was for hating men when I was younger.”

Yes, all the world is an oyster in the eyes of a young woman, and yet, she didn’t discover this until later in life because of her queer distrust for men. I’m sure she regrets having that attitude because it cut her off from the joys of being the object of the constant favors and the fawning attentions of men. I might even speculate that she’s annoyed with herself for nipping her own hypergamic instincts in the bud. However, she’s also stated on other occasions that she’s very content with her marriage and her grown children are well adjusted and relatively successful. All in all, she’s done rather well in life.

I find three things remarkable about her testimony.

  1. An avoidant distrust for men kept her pure throughout the turbulent post-adolescent stage.
  2. Her distrust for men didn’t hurt her chances for having a satisfying and successful marriage, and even helped her because of (1).
  3. How much times have changed since this lady was a young woman.

Her story offers a glimpse through the female lens for us to get some perspective on the social expressions of masculine faith conveyed in the remainder of this post.

Anonymous Truths

Since October of 2020, I’ve received several email messages from readers and fellow bloggers who told me they have some things to say to other men, but they can’t find an appropriate context in which to say it.

After collecting these messages into one document and studying their “secrets”, I found a common theme in four of them about how women crave male attention. The interesting thing about these messages is that there is another theme running underneath this main theme (which they may or may not be aware of), and that is how trusting God and living through faith frequently seems to come off as “inappropriate” or offensive.  So with these similarities in mind, I will present their statements here as a collection.

Some of the messages seem to answer questions that are brought up in other messages, so I’ve arranged the order of these messages accordingly.


“Over the past 30 years, I’ve found that women are absolutely addicted to male attention, but they are painstakingly particular about how that attention is shown. I actually find a lot of joy in giving women this attention that they need and crave, but I’ve had to learn how to do it so that I don’t get bitten by their implacable peevishness.  See, sometimes women get the wrong idea, and can make your life ћә11.  That includes my wife.  I don’t see anything wrong with giving attention to other women, as long as there is no impropriety. But it makes her jealous. She had a hard time with it when we were younger. […] Then something unexplicable happened. I don’t know what changed, but after talking with an older married woman at church, she grew to be at peace with this. […] Now she is thankful to have a husband who is “considerate of other women’s emotional needs”.”

[Jack’s Note: Wow! I’ve had the same experiences, including the older woman talking with my wife. Women want a charming man who is attractive to other women, even though it makes them jealous and possessive at times. They need an older woman to help them see that this emotional tug-of-war originates from within themselves, and not from the man who triggers this dichotomy of feeelz. Only then can they be thankful to have a man who can arouse such feelings.]


“Personally, even though I am married, I still like to tease women and flirt with them.  But that’s about as far as it goes.  I make it clear that it is just for fun, and I make the boundaries clear.  Women intuitively understand, and a few of them play along. I do this mostly by paraphrasing RP adages and applying them to women’s observed behaviors.  This ticks women off, but they love it at the same time.  […] When I was a younger Blue Pilled lad, I thought this kind of behavior was uncouth and rotten.  But since getting married, and especially after taking the Red Pill, I’ve learned to embrace the ironies of being a sexual human.  I don’t believe there is anything wrong with this, and I’ve found that people really enjoy the authenticity.  Believe it or not, it’s also made my marriage better!”

[Jack’s Note: I do this too (paraphrasing RP adages to tease women), and yes, it “works” just like he says. I also went through a crisis of belief and had to let go of some BP notions before I could square this with being a Christian.]


“Alright, here is something I would never mention on a blog post because it’s the kind of crap that gets me in trouble with the wife. But I think readers might want to know this is a thing.

I still flirt with random women in public, and I do it JUST TO SEE IF I STILL CAN!

I am not trying to cheat. I am not trying to get a divorce. I just like it, and I can’t explain it any other way.

A garden variety example might be a cute girl at a check out. If I detect even the slightest bit of IOI from her, I will look her right in the eyes and say something like “You’ve got the best smile I have seen all day.

If it “works”, they will do a bashful giggle, twirl their hair, their eyes dilate, you can even see a tiny bit of glistening on their lips if they get a little wet.

Then, I just walk away, having satisfied myself that I am still capable of this.

TRP community would argue that this is “game”.  But how is it game if I didn’t learn it from somewhere?  It’s just totally normal for me.”

[Jack’s Note: This is the element of charisma within game. You either have it or you don’t, and if you have it, you can’t explain it.]


“From reading Σ Frame, Do What’s Right [now defunct], and Radix Fidem, I’ve picked up how important it is to be living life from the heart.  One thing that gave me headaches and confusion is that whenever I started “getting into the groove” of living the heart-led way, I found it “natural” to behave inappropriately, like going back on my word, saying mean (but truthful) things, being careless and inconsiderate in general, bossing people around, and being flirty with women. I also got more IOIs from women, and this increased my temptation and decreased my will to resist.

Because the heart-led way seemed to go hand in hand with increased temptation and uncouth behavior, it made me wonder whether I was really on the right track. If I was, then I couldn’t understand how to deal with this.

Overall, all this bothered my conscience because on the surface, it seemed like I was becoming less Christ-like and less agape loving. So if I followed my conscience, then I had to back away from the heart-led way. I couldn’t be certain I was on the right track. I think this was the thing that, in the past, made me hesitant to embrace the heart-led way with confidence. I also suspect this is the thing that led me to reject exploring the heart-led way earlier in life. I’ve always been very conscientious.”

“For months I struggled with this, wondering if this a common experience with the heart-led way, or is there something odd about me?

Then in April [2021], I read NovaSeeker’s post, Juxtaposing the Temporal and the Eternal, and Jack followed up with a post describing how following the Rules and Trust in God are fundamentally opposed. Somewhere else, Jack wrote about how believing in Christ opens up a parallel paradigm, and then things started to click.

Through reading these posts, I realized that even though I was discovering the heart-led way, I was still thinking on a carnal level, trying to follow “rules” that my legalistic conscience had put in place long ago (probably during my childhood). Walking in faith requires me to be able to step outside my conscious self, to find that higher moral awareness that can express the real me. I think this is what Jack calls “spiritual authenticity”. I should not resist the groove of living in faith, thinking it to be merely a slide into immorality, but instead, I have to get used to what is flowing inside of me during my time in the groove and think in terms of what assets are now available, and for what purpose. There has to be a sense of mission that guides the use of whatever opportunities come out of it. After accepting this about myself, I’ve found that my inner Game comes quite naturally now, and it lures women out of nowhere. Not that this is a bad thing; it simply needs guidance and direction.

Since I realized this and started to trust God in this way, I have certainly screwed things up at times. Nothing too serious, except once, a female coworker reported me for h&rassment. Funny thing is, I never played any mind games with her or even interacted with her that much. But I do think she could feel something different about me. She misread my kindness, or maybe she was envious that the other women actually enjoyed my attentions. I’m not sure. This accusation was resolved after a couple other female coworkers voluntarily came forward and spoke up in defense of me. After it blew over, things resumed as normal, except there were fewer people who really trusted that coworker anymore. I eventually realized that no one took it very seriously to begin with. I mean, they had to take her seriously as a matter of principle but it was more of an annoyance than anything else. Overall, I’d say living in the groove of faith made me rather popular, and this won out in the end. I’ve come to view stuff like this as persecution for flaunting my new found authenticity as an expression of faith (Mark 10:29-31). And the outcome increases my faith that God will protect my budding faith, if that makes any sense to you.”

[Jack’s Note: I’m pretty sure he’s on the right track now.]

Conclusions

What these men have described is never openly discussed, but it is normal. Women love to receive attention, and men love to give it to them, But maneuvering the exchange can be very tricky.

As Christians, it’s well established that it’s wrong to spread sex around, but it’s not wrong to be attractive to people who really don’t have a clue about what that attraction should accomplish, and whose intentions are not at all appropriate.

I don’t believe flirting is wrong. It can be, at times, nothing more than a social lubricant. You have to discern when it’s okay to use that tool and how. You really need to be able to draw boundaries in this sense, and do it smoothly so that you don’t turn the blessing into a curse. I, too, have never faced more temptation than when I am “in the groove”. But there are clear boundaries between culture, nature, and nurture, and we become more aware of these boundaries through faith.

Σ Frame Maxim 23: The key to maneuvering intersexual social transactions is in recognizing God’s glory in everything.

When your heart of faith rules your day to day walk, everything inside of you is reordered. The masks we wear must come off. You need to recognize all of what’s been planted inside of you, some from God, some from culture, some from nature, and some from nurture.

The heart-led way exposes you to your true nature. If you don’t know what’s in the basement, you can’t clean it up. Your mind may not like what’s down there, but you need to fully assess what is there before you can seek the Lord to give things their proper value and place. Doing so doesn’t require that you surrender to everything that’s crawling around down there. This is why we must learn to pray all the time about every little thing. Over the long term, you eventually learn what God can do with what’s down there.

Cultures vary on how we should handle that self-discovery. A major hallmark of Western society is the inhibitions we are taught to place on ourselves, all the while entertaining the notion that “law, reason, and order” is what makes us more civilized and humane. Every other culture laughs about this. We aren’t allowed to be that self-honest.

A lot of what we assume is good and proper is little more than shaming ourselves and each other into conforming to ever changing mass social “rules”, and those who can do so successfully are given a hollow pat on the back for being a “good person” or a “good citizen”. Conversely, a lot of what we assume is our “human right” or even “God given right”, is simply the case that we’ve swallowed some popularized notion without due consideration.

One of the biggest steps in faith we take is when we realize that the boundaries and liberties we have allowed other people to draw for us don’t calculate by God’s estimations. These false boundaries most often take the form of a self-limiting comfort zone, and the false liberties lead us astray from the glory and righteousness of our faith. Sometimes they do turn out to be correct, but you have to find your own path back to reinterpreting them according to your own understanding, so that you’ll know for yourself why it is correct. This also helps knowing when and how it can be applied appropriately.

What God is looking for is a genuine love for Him and His ways, not whether you have the ability to actually perform. That doesn’t excuse sin, but it does put sin in proper perspective. You can’t truly live in this body and still avoid it! So what we need is a mechanism for handling the inevitable. We have to learn how to be moral janitors who are competent at cleaning up our own messes and trusting God with the outcome. And then we learn from the messes.

It takes a different kind of discipline altogether to walk through that fire without getting burned. But we need to know what is lurking in our subconscious being and how to handle the temptations God allows. It’s better to know, even at the risk of moral failure, than to hide behind artificial restraint. That’s the Psalm 139 experience.  It’s also the shift from legalism to agape.

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Attitude, Attraction, Authenticity, Boundaries, Building Wealth, Charisma, Confidence, Cultural Differences, Desire, Desire, Passion, Determination, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Education, Evangelism, Freedom, Personal Liberty, Game Theory, Glory, Holding Frame, Indicators of Interest, Introspection, Leadership, Legalism, Love, Male Power, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Personal Presentation, Power, Psychology, Purpose, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, SMV/MMV, Sphere of Influence, The Power of God. Bookmark the permalink.

17 Responses to Social Authenticity Proof: Giving Women Attention

  1. Maniac says:

    Even miserable Feminists desire male attention:

    Independent Women’s Forum: “Men Rarely Catcall Me Anymore”–Jessica Valenti Admits She Misses the Attention (2015-07-21)

    Liked by 3 people

    • feeriker says:

      An infamous article, one that serves as Exhibit A in demonstrating women’s lack of self-awareness and their inability to connect cause and effect.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Jack says:


      According to this article and the summarizing meme pictured above, famous feminist Valenti must have hit the wall and had an epiphany sometime between June 3, 2014 and July 20, 2015. She was born on November 1, 1978, so that would put her at 35-36 at that time. Seems like a very late epiphany, or maybe she just wouldn’t talk about it before then, because that would have eroded her life’s work.

      Dalrock covered this story here.

      Dalrock: Where have all the bad men gone? (2015-07-20)

      Liked by 3 people

      • feeriker says:

        Jessica Valenti:

        “Men rarely cat-call me anymore.”

        Darlin’, they never cat-called you in the first place. Cut the BS. NO woman in the U.S.A. has been “cat-called” (except for in strip clubs or porno movie theaters) in nearly fifty years, long before you were ever a gleam in your parents’ eyes. Your fore bearers in the Second Wave made sure that such a practice became a punishable criminal offense. No man is willing to risk criminal prosecution or jail time for you, dearie, especially once your toxic, feral personality reveals itself (i.e., as soon as you open your mouth and as the first intelligible word rolls forth from your tongue).

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Valenti, that’s the chick who I think wrote an entire book (R.S. McCain reviewed it) about her years of penis sampling. Imagine the lucky cuck who married that.

        [Jack: R.S. McCain’s original review at The Medium has been removed due to “policy violations”, but a copy can be read at the link below courtesy of the Wayback Machine (which is now requesting donations). It’s a half hour long read, but it’s quite insightful and entertaining.]

        Medium/Patriarch Tree (R. S. McCain): Lessons of a ‘Sex Object’ (2016-11-05)

        Like

  2. catacombresident says:

    Excellent post, Jack. Exploring your own character can put you at odds with a lot of American expectations, but you can’t put it to work for God’s glory if you don’t know what’s there.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. redpillboomer says:

    “Personally, even though I am married, I still like to tease women and flirt with them. But that’s about as far as it goes. I make it clear that it is just for fun, and I make the boundaries clear. Women intuitively understand, and a few of them play along. I do this mostly by paraphrasing RP adages and applying them to women’s observed behaviors. This ticks women off, but they love it at the same time. […] When I was a younger Blue Pilled lad, I thought this kind of behavior was uncouth and rotten. But since getting married, and especially after taking the Red Pill, I’ve learned to embrace the ironies of being a sexual human. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with this, and I’ve found that people really enjoy the authenticity. Believe it or not, it’s also made my marriage better!”

    This really resonates with me because it is very similar to what I’ve experienced, especially the last few years being red pilled. Prior to my red pilling, things were working for me in my marriage and with women in general, i.e. the flirting, but it was susceptible to missteps and breakdowns. My situation was/is similar to your work-related example, but only more in an educational related setting since I’m retired and do a lot of educational programs.

    The funny thing is my flirting with women (the right kind of flirting, the ‘non-agenda’ type flirting, if you know what I mean), which was okay prior to taking the red pill, suddenly became demonstrably more effective after taking the red pill. I’ve found this fascinating, especially for an older guy, and I’ve enjoyed watching how it works with women; in other words, how they respond to it. Not to go into all the observations I’ve made, but I will say this, female nature/female response to it, is very ‘predictable.’ Virtually ALL of them seem to like the attention, IF it is done in a way that is not ‘creepy’ or agenda-laden in their eyes.

    For me in my early sixties, I’ve found the women 35-40 really enjoy it. Part of it I believe is they’re post-wall now and they are experiencing a decline in male attention — and you’re right, they do LIKE it still, dare I say CRAVE the attention. Not that these post-wall women have ‘lost’ it all yet, some are still quite attractive and sexy even though they are pretty much at the tail end of their fertility window; and their marriage prospects, if not attained by now, are in a steep decline. It’s kind of fun to give them that attention they apparently still want/crave, and all the more so, now that it’s beginning to wane for them. The key is that the attention occurs in their world as of the non-creepy sort and playful; and yes, sexually playful. They get drawn into engaging it. I’ve also noticed the sexual tension starts rising in them as you flirt, and they realize it’s ‘just flirting,’ non-threatening, but they loosen up and the SUB-COMMUNICATION becomes increasingly innuendo laced.

    Not really sure where I’m going with all this, thinking out loud a bit here; maybe one of you can pick up a thread and take it somewhere. However, when I read that paragraph in the blog post, the one I posted at the top of my post, I said, “Yes! I know EXACTLY what he means. I’ve experienced it too!”

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “Yes! I know EXACTLY what he means. I’ve experienced it too!”

      I can identify with all of the guys who wrote to me at some level. I think these kind of experiences are not as unique as we might think, and it’s definitely something that we need to tell younger men.

      “…my flirting with women… suddenly became demonstrably more effective after taking the red pill.”

      Ditto. I didn’t have much game at all when I was younger. But after I started reading the Manosphere and began to understand how things work, I became aware of what little game I had and started to explore it, experiment with it, and develop it. After a few years, it came rather naturally if I wanted to expend the effort.

      “I’ve found the women 35-40 really enjoy it.”

      Yeah, women in this range really enjoy it, but they can be rather particular, meaning that I have to be extremely careful that nothing I say or do can be misinterpreted as something serious. If they take it seriously, then they’ll either demonize me or they’ll want to bed down ASAP. I also think they are particular about the kind of men that show them that attention, that is, they are receptive to me, but not some other men. I find it much easier to tease and flirt with women in the 40-55 window, especially if they are happily married and have children. This threw me at first, because some of them responded so enthusiastically that I thought they were serious, and it made me worry about having to deal with a jealous husband. But after a while, I saw that their commitments to their families and their time boundaries were being observed, and I realized, “Yes, this is just for fun. Whew!”. Women over 55 will allow you to take a lot of liberties, e.g. hugging them, kissing them on the cheek, semi-explicit innuendos like “Wow! You look so hot in that dress!”, etc. I was hesitant at first because I thought it might be taken as cruel sarcasm, but actually, they don’t think that way. They eat it up. A small number of them will impose boundaries, but they won’t ever send you away in shame. Once when I was 19, I called a ~60 year old single woman “sweetie”, and she got so excited she invited me on a “date”. I met her for breakfast at the Waffle House and we had a nice talk. After that we were “friends” in spite of our age gap. (Not FWB, if that’s what anyone is thinking.)

      Female thirst for attention in their later years is as desperate as male thirst for sex is in their younger years. We have strict guidelines for sex, but there are few restrictions on giving attention (based on motives and what it leads to). So why not give them some? I think of it as being kind to older women.

      I’m sure someone will read this and think, “Ewww! Dating a 60 year old woman?!? Kissing her on the cheek?!?!” So for those who have this idea, again, this is just for fun. But the valuable part of this is that (1) it helps build rapport with others in your community, and (2) it’s easy to build up some confidence with women by interacting with them in this way, and it doesn’t matter what their age is. And, (3) you never know what good might come out of it. RPB chatted up a 37 year old, and met his wife (who was her niece) in the process.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. whiteguy1 says:

    This has been my experience as well. I’ve spent the last 2.5 years sharing my flower photography (I call it ‘flower game’) with girls from all ages, youngest so far is 4, oldest was 74. I’ve given away over 300 photographs, more than half have been ‘cold approaches’. Never got a single date out of any one, I went in with the goal of sharing something of myself, instead of getting something.

    Here’s what I’ve found: They ALL love it, and they ALL have the same reaction when I tell my ‘story’ and let them pick a unique flower. They ALL ‘fret’ about picking the ‘right’ one. Some even try to ‘negotiate’ for more than one because they can’t pick ‘just one’ — part of the game. And when I tell them ‘no’, it gives them a little thrill, hmm. It’s been a fascinating study for me. But they ALL love the attention.

    And like Jack said, the coin of the realm is ‘attention’, especially if you are in the upper 25%, your coins will be worth A LOT.

    I’ve come to realize that as I unplugged and remembered who I was and the natural contempt I have for girls, it got easier to interact, and find joy in meeting new people.

    Here’s the ‘weird’ part for me, I’m naturally an introvert, but I have discovered that one of the gifts of the Spirit given to me has been that of exhortation… talk about frustrating! Who says God isn’t a comedian! Being the introvert, it is hard, most of the time, for me to engage with people like this, but I have found that sharing my ‘spirit’ with both men and women always enriches everyone. (Though I ain’t going to lie, after this sharing, encouraging, flirting, I’m spent and have to have some serious downtime).

    So I’ve taken the attitude to be like a ‘millionaire’, sharing my wealth on those who have less than me. If I am truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit, then I have an unlimited source which to draw from to share, be it ‘man attention’, encouraging other brothers and sisters, to comfort those in need, and to share The Spirit with those who are missing it.

    All in all, this has been a good series this month Jack. I just got my divorced settled out of court, so this 2.5 years of limbo can come to a close and I can start a new chapter in my life.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. feeriker says:

    “Imagine the lucky cuck who married that [Jessica Valenti].”

    I think she eventually did marry some soyboy simp, IIRC. I shudder to think that they’re still married.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      Yep. And, as far as I can tell, they’re still married.

      The Guardian (Jessica Valenti): My big feminist wedding (2009-04-24)

      “The fact that Andrew and I had had conversations about the misogynist traditions that accompany marriage made us a bit of an oddity, it seemed. Then there were the fellow feminists who felt that getting married was a sop to the patriarchy, and the problems that we encountered as a couple. Because, with the best will in the world, kissing goodbye to gender roles can be more difficult than it looks.”
      […]
      “Andrew is fabulous and I want to be married to him — due in no small part to the fact that he also identifies himself as a feminist and that an equal partnership is just as important to him as it is to me.”

      I kind of like this part.

      “Kathryn Lopez of the conservative publication National Review, wrote a post entitled, “You’ve Never Met a Bridezilla Like a Feminist Bridezilla”, mocking my attempts to subvert traditional wedding standards. Another blogger wrote about Andrew, featuring his picture and a link to his personal website, in a faux contest — “Beta of the month” — the idea being that a real alpha male wouldn’t be caught dead marrying a feminist. (Or a “ball-cutting cybersuccubus”, as I was, in fact, described. Think I can get that on a business card?)”

      “Ball busting cybersuccubus!” I’ll have to remember that!

      Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Ouch!

        Chateau Heartiste: March 2009 Beta Of The Month (2009-04-03)

        Oh dang! Heartiste is brutal! Andy barely lost (to a literal cuck) March 2009 beta of the month. Jessica’s book might have been enough to put him over the top if published then.

        Chateau Heartiste: February And March 2009 Beta Of The Month Winners (2009-04-29)

        [Jack: The first Heartiste post is where Valenti’s husband is nominated for the BOTM, and Valenti is described as a “ball-cutting cybersuccubus”. The second post announces the BOTM winners and comments on Valenti’s article in The Guardian.]

        Like

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