Are you on a mission for God, or for Gynocentrism?
Readership: All
Theme: Consolidating Masculinity
Length: 850 words
Reading Time: 4 minutes
What do Women want?
Western society, and even the church as well, has fallen victim to centering all discussion on sex, marriage, and intersexual relations around these questions,
- “What does a WOMAN WANT?”
- “How are men best to give her that?”
The answer to the first question is simple, and I’ll sum it up for the green reader. What a woman WANTS is to FEEL GOOD. Consequently, she will pursue and explore anything that gives her pleasure and/or ease. For women, the typical vectors of the Feeelz are…
- Adventures, partying, traveling, etc.
- Attracting attention, usually by creating drama, social media, wearing revealing clothing, etc.
- Emoting, and eliciting emotion from others, including men.
- Catharsis, entertainment, media, etc,
- Fantasy, solipsism, gnosticism, etc.
- Friendships
- Garnering social proof, getting positive feedback, compliments, flattery, etc.
- Losing self-control
- Masturbating
- Physical activities, sports, jogging, etc.
- Playing sociopsychological games with people, especially men and men’s emotions
- Pretty lies
- Sex with high SMV men
- Seeking Validation from men
- Self care, manicures, massages, etc.
- Shopping, spending $$$
- Socializing, talking, gossiping, etc.
Women solipsistically regard their pursuit of Funz and the Feeelz as harmless, but men are more aware of the defilement, destruction, extravagance, inefficiency, and waste that accompanies certain activities.
The second question presupposes that men’s entire purpose in life is to enable and support women’s pursuit of Funz and the Feeelz, and therefore poses an unwarranted demand on men. Most men fall for this ruse, become self-conscious, and worry about whether their performance is “good enough” for a particular woman of interest. Meanwhile, women sit back and watch to see which men will either do their bidding (or knock themselves out trying), or else prove their Alpha-ness by seeing through the faux demands imposed on them.
The former men (i.e. beta orbiters) are for attention, entertainment, and to be used as draftstock. The latter men, which are a tiny minority, are singled out for relationships and sex.
The former men who overtly disagree with playing this role are typically branded as “toxic”. This could not be any further from the truth. The latter men are often the men who are truly toxic, but because they play a key role as a focal point of the Feminine Imperative, women refuse to see them as such.
What do Men want?
Over the last decade or so, there has been a growing backlash to the societal assumption that men have little value other than to be the servants and slaves of women’s whims. Hence, the rise of the Manosphere, the Red Pill, MGTOW, and various MRA movements. Men have begun asking these question for themselves.
- “What does a MAN WANT?”
- “How are men best to go about getting what they want?”
The Manosphere focuses on what a MAN WANTS, and to sum it all up, in the secular sphere it comes down to fornication with multiple women, and in the Christian sphere it is visceral sex in marriage. As Thedeti often says, “It’s all about the p_ssy!”
What does God want?
What BOTH MEN AND WOMEN NEED is an identification with Christ that brings them into a proper relationship with God, and a PURPOSE for living that flows from that.
In absence of being identified with Christ and having a Purpose and Mission that flows out of that, AND in ABSENCE of societal restrictions, Hypergamy will rule over Wimminz FLESHLY nature, and P_ssy will rule over Men’s. That is exactly what we see in society and all around the world. Men and Women are Fleshly minded, and all their feral unrestricted behaviors reflect that propensity.
In the absence of a larger shared Purpose, relationships will degenerate into a Pygmalion Project in which each person is trying to get the other to “change” in order to better fulfill their wants and needs. A Christian relationship reaches maturity when both partners are focused on their Mission and Purpose, and are in the habit of fulfilling their respective roles and responsibilities to each other, rather than on fulfilling their own unresolved desires.
This month, I’ve talked a lot about a man’s MISSION. Just to be clear, the MISSION is NOT to give women what they want. It is NOT to bed the hottest girl. It is NOT sequestering a woman for marriage. A man’s MISSION in life is not even a career. Although for some men, a career and/or marriage could be vehicles for his MISSION.
Glorifying God and making Christ known is THE MISSION. This is the essence of God’s purpose for Mankind, and it is same for women too.
Christian Men and Women won’t be successful in love, marriage, rearing a family, unless they recognize how it all relates to God’s purposes for us. The PURPOSE of CHRISTIAN marriage is to emulate God’s love for Mankind and glorify Him. In this context, success in marriage FLOWS from a combined sense of PURPOSE.
Related
- Σ Frame: We’re on a mission from God. (2020/8/21)
- Σ Frame: A Conversation About Human Potential and Purpose (2020/9/4)
- Σ Frame: What does a Proverbs 31 relationship look like? (2022/10/18)
Σ Frame 
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Everything we are to be as men flows from this. Adam’s failure was not adhering to this, as was Abraham’s, as was Solomon’s, as was Ahab’s, etc. Men allowing their wives to convince them to forsake this primary mission has been the source of evil in the world beginning in Eden and continuing today.
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Thinking Ape on the “mainstreaming” of the ‘Sphere. As usual, a decent take, with some good insights. I personally believe there is more to it than what he is saying.
[Jack: His discussion of the Manosphere begins at 6:30.]
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Male simping is undefeated unfortunately. I mean attraction is one thing. But for that to become simping is just sad.
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Re: Thinking Ape’s monologue
He’s right in saying that the Manosphere comes in different flavors and means different things to different people. He’s also right in saying that Ye Olde Manosphere focused on sets of issues that are no longer an issue to the younger generation.
What he failed to go into and the thing that is missing from his talk, IMO, is exactly what the hot issues were/are for each interphase of the Manosphere. For Gen X, it was how to get laid or get married. For Millennials, it was how to deal with Marriage 2.0, divorce, etc. For Homelanders / iGens / Zyklons (or whatever they’re calling themselves now), the current issues of interest are identity, loneliness, life purpose, and how to get into a relationship — any relationship. If we were to extrapolate an issue for the Boomers (who for the most part, went through that critical life stage before the Manosphere came about), I guess it would be how to make wives “happy” and faithful (in their Blue Pill world, which bypasses anything Red Pill).
He also mentions how the current iteration of the Manosphere is watered down and feminized, that is, promulgated by many female voices — too many. Those of us who witnessed the Manosphere in its heyday (ca. 2008-2012) would agree. He is right in saying that the mainstreamification of the Manosphere makes it this way. But the real question is about the relevancy of the Manosphere to Men. Is it giving men what they want and need to progress through the challenges faced by the current generation? Is it helping them connect with other men, learn from other men’s experiences, and to come through with any measure of what they would consider “success”?
What really gets me is seeing some of the old Manosphere personalities (e.g. Donovan Sharpe, MTR, Rian Stone, Rollo, et al., and now Andrew Tate) sitting down to have talks with the new Female Red Pill grifters. They pretend not to know that women can’t really “get it” and can only parrot RP talking points with a mental understanding and a superficial empathy at best. Even so, this crossover lends some legitimacy to the Female RP and supercharges the process of taking it mainstream. But of course, it’s all grift.
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I remember years ago…… the only female Incel / MGTOW voice that was allowed to post on a few boards was: Diana Davidson.
Then along came a very pretty young woman. Anyway, the simping came out immediately when she mentioned a few points on a video that supported MGTOW. Suddenly, it was decided by the men on this forum “She has a lot of good things to say” and “We need her to help educate women.”
None of this was true. She was HOT! That’s all.
Years back, I joked about the one Fox News Reporter…….. dressed liked she was going out to a nightclub the second the newscast ended, and everyone was saying, “She had a lot of great things to say / add to the conversation!”
Why? Because she was deemed hot HOT, and her name was Megan Kelly.
Kimberly Guilfoyle, the former first lady of San Francisco, married to Gavin Newsom at one point, had a kid out of wedlock with some other guy. She also just happens to be a former lingerie model……. She meets Trump Jr. He kicks his wife and litter of kids to the curb, and moves in with her. They are “gonna get married some day”… AND “She has a lot of great things to say and add to the conversation.”
It’s because she is an attractive woman. That’s it.
Same with Rollo, Tate, and all these other ‘tards. Attractive women are assumed: to be intelligent, ready to be a mother, friendly, nice, good value, smart, and of course, the “have important things to say.”
Most don’t.
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Does that not indicate that Donovan Sharpe, MTR, Rian Stone, Rollo, Andrew Tate, etc. are grifters themselves, and have been all along? I don’t know if they are or not, but if they’re knowingly participating in someone’s grift, doesn’t that make them accomplices?
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I’ll quote myself…
And as soon as it turns to grift, the volume increases and the value decreases.
Not sure about the others, but I think Rollo wasn’t a grifter in his early Manosphere days. But ever since he stopped blogging and turned to video talks, he has been. His video talks are so full of stuff and nonsense that I don’t even bother watching them. More to the point, his creativity died. He is no longer addressing the critical areas that men are facing. It’s just a non-stop commentary on the broken aspects of the SMP — something I would consider “entertainment” for the masses of budget thinkers.
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Oscar, I don’t know about “all along” but they definitely have become something like that now.
I think the beginning was good, but now it’s become so monetized (especially the YouTube stuff) that it is cringe-worthy to watch.
The Red-Pill™ is a brand now. Those guys REALLY wish they had trademarked it at the start. Because as they grift, they spend most of their energy and time on those videos discussing who the grifters are, and shaming them. So the whole thing is about who has the “real” Red-Pill content.
And, like any other self-help product, there is no incentive to actually improve the lives of anyone watching, because if you do, they go away. Better to keep charging for “superchats” and whatever.
The best part is, they know (like the Black Pill guys do) that most of what makes a man attractive to a woman is baked into his genetic cake. They can’t say that out loud because then no one would buy what they are selling.
What they are selling is “Just internalize game. If you aren’t pulling tail, you didn’t internalize it yet. So, here’s another book / conference / membership. Eventually, you will get it, we promise. Oh also, those other guys are grifters!”
Its a great gig.
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They caught onto this around 2016-2017 or so. Before that, grifters would actually have some content that was helpful to men. They would lay out different types of men and point out which kinds of men stand a chance. They would tell men stuff like, “You can’t just learn pick up lines, etc. You actually have to become a better man!” What I think happened in 2016-2017 is that men, for the most part, figured out what kind of man they are and those that didn’t make the cut went MGTOW. Then those guys lost half their base while MGTOW grew up overnight.
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On an Incel / Black Pill dischord one guy puts up a daily “Rollo’s blame of the day”, which features a clip from his podcast blaming Incels, men like me for “all the problems in the SMP and dating market.”
If we just showered, bought and read his book we could be just like him. All of his guests now are guys who speak at “mens conferences” and include guests like Rich Cooper who last year bragged that he charges simps $50 for an hour of consultation.
All the Incels and men like me are the problem.
We’re again ruining it for everyone else.
So much for being a “leader” of men. It’s a grift now and has been for a bit.
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Its also a marketing gimmick. Having women on these podcasts now who “agree” with the likes of Tate, Rollo, and others…
Like the sports networks two decades ago…… Having a good looking woman on the desk who “nods” and “smiles” and makes light talk about the sport is hot.
“See, look! Women like sports! Hot ones too!”
Just another “NAWALT” move. It gets views. Andrew Tate debating and talking to an attractive woman who agrees with him is a cope and a hop for the masses. “See, hot women like me. They like men like me. Just join my club and you will see!” It’s the classic ad line of “This could be you, average simp!”
There are many now. That edgy gal with the neck and full frontal tatts telling women what b!tches they are to men. The one who looks like she should be on a dish detergent commercial. The busty one who wears sunglasses, drives her car around, and tells women to stop being such snots to men.
They all have been on these podcasts, and it’s just to show the losers like me, “See, Incels… Just talk to women like me, and they will agree if you have the right game / frame / moxie……………….”
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Rollo, in particular, finds himself in a really weird position.
He HAS to say stuff like…
“OTHER people have dubbed me the Godfather of the Red-Pill, but I don’t call myself that.”
(Subtext: “I really am the Godfather of the Red-Pill, just ask “other people,” but I am way too modest to say it.” wink wink)
And…
“I don’t make any money on this content, its all available online. I never took my original website down.”
(Subtext: “I make MOST of my money repackaging stuff I have already put online, and pretending it’s no big deal, but it is a big deal, but it’s not really, but it is…”)
And so on. It must be exhausting.
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If he were truly modest, he would say, “Actually, there were three (or more), me, Roissy and Roosh. They called us “The 3 R’s”. (ha ha) Out of the three of us, I came into the Manosphere last.” And then make a few comments about how that all happened to prove to the newbies that he knows what he’s talking about. That would actually give himself more dignity and honor than by bringing it up and then passing it off like he does.
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Well, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from the Crowder vs. Daily Wire debacle, it’s that there’s a lot more money in being a talking head than I ever realized. The DW offered Crowder something like $50M and he wanted more like $150M. Granted, he has a lot of overhead, but damn!
I don’t know what kind of money Rollo et al. are making, but odds are it’s the kind of money for which people sell their souls.
Granted, that’s not much for some people, but you know what I mean.
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Jack said,
About right. What really needed to be said had already been said, a lot.
It was also at this time when it began to be “fully admitted” that your looks, as a man, do matter. A lot. A lot more than you were told, and the genetic stuff too. Stuff you can’t really change. That matters.
“You don’t have the right genetics????? Sucks to be you, but……………. See ya! Wouldn’t want to be ya!”
The Christian side of all of this was a bit behind (like they are on most cultural issues). When it hit the church, people were saying, “Dont worry! Did you know, in heaven, there is no marriage!” (rolls eyes) As if that changes anything.
The boat rocked and lines shifted then, and again its changing now, as it has to.
Men like myself knew at that point it was pretty much over. Sure, you might get lucky or “meet someone”…
Then again, probably not.
I mean, I am in my fifties. What matters to me now as a man is much different than when I was twenty, or thirty-five, or now.
There will be a Rennaissance of the older stuff in a few years, and it’s all out there online. Men will find it. We don’t need to make another video on “How to get a girl to like you”.
Will it work? As usual, for some it will. For many it won’t. Not with sexbots, but with AI and the atomization of the culture….. with men in particular…… most won’t have a shot anyway. The difference will be that many men….. a lot more than today…… just won’t care. Why should they? Most men still won’t make the looks, or the social status cut to get the “pretty country gal in a sundress”.
Women will still be just “showing up” — “I AM the table!” …and men will still be simping for their attention.
To Christians, any woman that has more than a kiss from more than one guy will be pretty much useless for marriage.
I’ve spoken to many in this Zoomer group. My social skills are way lower than most of you here, and I am WAY below the norm of most men in my generation, but I look like a socially wise Wizard when I’m around these young guys and they compare themselves to me.
[Jack: Edited for clarity and readability.]
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LastMod,
There’s your sphere of influence! This is the arena in which you will make your mark on the world for Christ! Encouraging and teaching young men spurned by the SMP, MGTOWs, and men going through the Black Pill experience.
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This most recent comment from Lastmod is spot on.
And to be honest, that is kind of what is happening to the manosphere at scale.
The “rules” are suspect to me sometimes, which is one of the reasons I stay around to glean more information.
For example, Rollos “iron clad” rule of “ignore her beauty” strikes me as odd.
My wife LOVES it when I flirt with her and talk about how cute I think she is. In fact, if I don’t for about 24 hours she pulls away as a defense mechanism or we have a very low-insight (on her part) fight about something totally unrelated with the commensurate make up s#x. Its unintentional soft dread being deployed on her.
What I mean by “low-insight” in this case is she doesn’t have conscious awareness of why she picked the fight, but its fear of abandonment / cheating or something like that.
Assuming your relationship is otherwise good, and you love your wife, and all other things being equal, why would you unleash that on her on purpose?
If it happens unintentionally (meaning I am overwhelmed with obligations and work, and I “forget” to brush by her and kiss the back of her neck a few times a day, and her hindbrain concludes, “He must be getting it elsewhere”), and she gets a little insecure about that, that’s different. What Rollo et al. want you to do is purposely inflict that insecurity. I just don’t have the stomach for it.
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TEOS,
Anything coming from the secular Manosphere has to be translated into Christianese, then you have to pick out the meat and throw away the bones. Having a mystical approach helps. The way I interpret “ignore her beauty” is “don’t be a simp” rephrased for those who lack self-awareness. Also, the intended context is for the secular SMP. Marriage is an entirely different context that Rollo rarely goes into. It also depends on the woman. Some women need that constant attention and affirmation, like TEOS’s wife. But if I did what TEOS described, my wife would become self-conscious and anxious. This is her typical reaction when she gets turned on but she’s not prepared to follow through with the grand festivities, which can be lengthy.
Moreover, it is just as LastMod described.
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No, the statement “okay Boomer” is thrown at me by this crowd in many cases, Jack. Which I do find as an insult that stings.
All I tell them:
“You had better just focus on your college education, or your skills / career or job and do it better than anyone else.” I tell them that most advice you get won’t work. “It’s a numbers game. / Keep trying.” sort of thing.
“If you are indeed not attractive in the face, no amount of going-to-the-gym will help you. It might get you a sympathy hook up. It may help you mentally with focusing on a task. Other things can do that as well.”
“In the end, the sphere doesn’t care about you…… You can’t fix genetically unattractive. If you really want or need sex that badly, then you will have to settle for a woman well below your looks level. People do it. Are they happy? I can’t answer that. I wouldn’t know.”
“Church will make you go stand in the parking lot to direct traffic. You won’t be “leading men” or “youth”. (That is a woman’s ministry now. A man that works with children is viewed as a closet pedo.) If you do find a church, go for yourself only. You will find little or no “love of jesus” for you from the flock. It’s a club for the married, and those going to be married. People with options.”
I encourage them to find something off of the computer, and out of their apartment to do. I don’t care if it’s taking a walk around the block and not talking to people. I love fresh air but I still go outside even in LA.
Long ago, my father told me, “You’re a loner, and that can’t be fixed. You got it from me or your mother.” He then pushed me to take up skiing. It’s a solo sport. No passing. No switching batting order. No teammates who don’t play like a team. Just you and the trail. Nature. I became a decent skiier, but I found hiking and camping was the thing for me.
I tell them it does get easier. Also, “Do you see the popular guy or gal on the Internet as they get older? They age too.” Mom used to say to me in Welsh back in high school about the popular guys and gals: “Nid ydynt wedi atal y byd eto ychwaith!” (roughly meaning, “They have not stopped the world either. / The world will still go on turning with or without them. / They are not that important.”).
It was true. Then again, I didn’t stop anything either.
It’s hard to tell a 23 year old man who is really in pain about this, “Oh, it’s not that bad”, when at that age, THAT age, Sex is baked into everything. Your conversations with friends. Going out. Meeting people. College classes. Church. It’s not easy, and I don’t have the right words to say about many of those things….
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LastMod,
Sounds like you’re giving decent advice. Your own personal testimony is what makes it come alive.
You’ll need to identify the young men you can actually help from those who think you’re a yahoo. Don’t reject those men who could actually benefit from your influence simply because a few of them don’t appreciate it.
Keep up the good work!
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That’s false. It’s LAMPS, not just L. Obviously, being handsome makes things a lot easier. No one has ever denied that. But, if you’re less blessed in the L department, you can make up for it in the A, M, P, and S departments. Nikolai Valuev….
….. is no Brad Pit, but he’s a professional boxer, so he’s off the charts in A, M, and S.
As I’ve pointed out before, Mick Jagger is ugly as sin, and always has been…
…. but he’s the lead singer of the Rolling Stones, so he’s off the charts in M and S, so he has a string of illegitimate children with supermodels.
Obviously, an ordinary man isn’t going to be the next Nikolai Valuev, or Mick Jagger, but he doesn’t have to be. He can maximize his LAMPS enough, and that counts for a lot.
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Re Manosphere mainstreaming:
I don’t agree it’s gone mainstream. Not really. When the media talks about the manosphere, it’s incels/3li0t R0dg3r/T5@rn@3vs/let them starve and d!e. It’s guys who can’t get laid. When ordinary men talk about the manosphere, usually in comboxes or little articles here and there, it’s marriage is bad for men/AFBB.
No one cares that men are hurting. No one cares that men are falling behind. Even other men don’t care, because it’s just how we are as men.
If the bottom 80% of men disappeared today, were just raptured or died or whatever, society wouldn’t care one bit. It just wouldn’t. It’s always been this way, even in a majority “Christian” society which is what the US was up until around 1985. This is why men have to take care of themselves and do for themselves. No one is coming to help us. No one is coming to save us. That’s women’s province – they can hang back and know that if they can’t get it done, some man somewhere will get it done for them. We men can’t live that way, because no one will get it done for us.
Men, do for yourselves. Figure it out. Get it done. Because no one will get it done for you. No one else gives a sh!t.
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It’s not false.
First. Mick Jagger was from a time when a man didnt have to be 8+ to get a date. Also, he has fronted one of the most successful rock n roll bands in history. The average Incel in a forum, age 26, has no chance of this.
And…
Famous pop / rock stars. Artists. Actors, these men are not the norm.
And, look at Mick Jaggers divorces over the decades….. and most of these famous men for that matter:
Resources. Bianca Jagger took HALF. That’s just one example. When wife got bored or ended up getting tired of what she married and could not change him. Take the money and run. There was little or no real personal affection for him aside from the initial thrill, and fame.
Exceptions, yes. Paul and Linda McCartney had a good, loving, and solid marriage. Look at McCartney’s next wife after Linda died.
These men and men like them are the exception. Not the rule.
I have heard it said many times over the past decade, “False. I know a guy who is 3’3″ and gets models all the time!” Random statements of the exceptions. Not the norm, nor reality.
Again, by your statement, you are pedestalizing women to say, “They look deeper and are not shallow about men.”
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Who am I going to believe, an angry, bitter rando on the internet, or the evidence I’ve seen with my own eyes?
No kidding, dude. I literally wrote, “Obviously, an ordinary man isn’t going to be the next Nikolai Valuev, or Mick Jagger, but he doesn’t have to be.”
OBVIOUSLY they are not the norm. I already said so. But I can’t show you pictures of people in everyday life, can I?
I’ll give you an example from everyday life, which you’ll also reject, as you always do. One of my friends back in MO is 5’10”, not handsome, overweight, and balding, yet he married an attractive woman from a very good family. He’s also charismatic (the proverbial funny fat guy) and highly ambitious. We met at work, but he risked his life savings on a construction company, and now he’s a successful business owner.
He didn’t have much L or A, but he maximized M, and S, and his wife was smart enough to see in him a man who was going places before he went there.
But, let me guess, you’re going to reject that example as well, right?
No dude. You’re lying about what I wrote, as usual. LAMPS is the surface. There’s nothing deep about LAMPS. LAMPS is to women what T&A are to men.
And by the way, as people have been telling you for at least 10 years (and probably much longer than that), your looks aren’t your problem, but your incessant lying about others is one of your problems. People don’t like being lied about. You know that, yet you keep doing it.
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I’m not an angry bitter rando. You should look in the mirror on that. You have plenty of rage in your posts and replies that needs to be checked. You get angry and accuse for the fact I am probably one of the few men in your life that has actually stood up to some of your really foolish claims. Like the one above.
Yes, yes… and every PUA knows a gazillion 5’3″ guys who date supermodels. Easy! No problem. They just are comfortable with “how god made them”, and “women find that hot!”
You pick apart my replies, fragment them, and then call it a “lie” in a contextual sense. That is typical behavior from bullies like you. Been dealing with men like you since I was a teen.
You’re hardly charming to be around on these forums as well, Oscar. You are a very mean person beneath your Christian front.
LAMPS does not equal T&A. You said it equals that.
I deal with vendors and contractors like you all the time in my job now. They tell me how awesome they are. I say ,“no, the contract says…”, and suddenly I am a liar, bitter, angry, no good, and any other smear they can find.
Apparently, I have no idea what I am talking about, and neither do the millions upon millions of Incels. They just have to be funny. They just need to develop social skills… This isn’t the world of 1996, or even 2010.
You have no clue. Stop acting or (gasp) LYING like you do know. Go boss someone else around, tell them how great you are instead of wasting your time replying to me.
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Wait, does T&A mean Tingles and Attraction, or T!ts and A$$??? I guess it is the same thing from a man’s viewpoint.
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Jason, you wrote that you developed “a seething hatred for” your “fellow man” in high school. Those were your exact words. That is nearly 40 years — and counting — of anger, bitterness and hatred on your part.
I didn’t write that for you or about you. You wrote it about yourself.
People don’t like being hated. Have your ever considered the possibility that your “seething hatred for” your “fellow man” may have something to do with the problems you describe having with other men?
Good thing I’m not a PUA, never have been, and never will be.
Good thing I never said anything about 5’3″ guys dating supermodels.
Good thing I actually said “none of this is easy”.
Good thing I never said that “women find that hot”.
There is no context in which I said that “women look deeper and are not shallow about men”. You can’t point to any such context, because it doesn’t exist, and you know it. You lied, Jason. People don’t like being lied about.
I never said that LAMPS equals T&A. I wrote that LAMPS is to women what T&A are to men. They’re analogous, not equal.
I’ve never told anyone how awesome I am. That’s another lie. I’ve stated multiple times that I’m ordinary. Are you saying that you think I’m awesome?
I’ve literally never told you what to do, but you just told me what to do.
Again, I’ve never told anyone how great I am, because I’m ordinary. And you just told me what to do again.
That’s the third time in just this one post that you’ve told me what to do. Why is it a waste of my time to refute your false claims, Jason?
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It is somewhat short sighted to go to all the effort to refute LastMod’s assumptions and impressions, and in doing so, fail to get his main point. The problem is that it can be challenging to sift through LastMod’s assumptions and impressions and glean out the point of what he is saying.
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Except that my point is that wallowing in anger, bitterness, and envy, and seething with hatred towards ones fellow man, as Jason does, leaves a man miserable and lonely, as Jason is.
Jason will probably never heed that warning, but some other man might.
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I still think grown men spending hours and hours playing video games is really weird.
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Well, I find it just as strange, but there wasn’t much to do during the plandemic. Grown men spending all weekend watching sports is really weird too.
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Interesting case study but this time there is something wrong with the Husband.
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Re: Mom with Teenager’s comment
We know how women will always talk about their issues as if the problem is entirely someone else’s fault and will never mention how they might have contributed to the problem. So when I read this comment, my first thought was, “What is she doing, or what did she do, that would cause a man to react this way? What is the whole story? What is the full context?”
One possibility is that she refused to have sex with him for 20 years, and then after she aged 20 years, put on weight, and became totally undesireable, she had a “change of heart” and decided that she now wants sex. But by this time, he’s already been operantly conditioned to despise and reject all sexual interaction with her. In this case, her use of the word “celibate” would mean he turns her down, not the other way around. His complaints that she “wasn’t ready fast enough” might have been because he had to wait several days or several weeks to get any nookie. RPA stated that men with wives who withhold sexually have frequent stomach problems and various illnesses, so this lines up too.
As I described in Wives reap what they sow (2022/1/12) and The Wages of Sin are Paid in Marriage (2022/10/15), women who behave this way are simply receiving their just desserts.
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There’s another possibility: She was disrespectful to him throughout the marriage. Disrespect and dishonor are major turn-offs to a man.
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Yeah, if she ends up commenting here. We shall see.
It could simply be that he is an outlier man who hates sex for whatever reason and is best single for life. Who wasn’t sexually attracted to the woman he married.
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Stress is a killer and it can show up in different areas for each man. Some experience decline in cardiovascular health, others see it in their guts, but all men under a great deal of stress eventually end up with a physical expression of the emotional distress they are under. A difficult wife is stress incarnate for a couple reasons. First, she stresses her husband by making his life harder. Second, in making his home life harder she compounds the pressure he’s under by denying him the peace and rest he needs in his home to recover from his day out in the world. It can spiral this way when there is no peace at home: No household rest weighs on him, stress builds, starts affecting other areas of his life (professional, social) adding additional stress, stress compounds in downward life spiral because God’s designed oasis doesn’t exist.
A man can learn to want nothing to do with a woman who has a poor attitude and runs her mouth too much. She’s even off putting to God (1 Peter 3:4).
I can venture an educated guess about what is going on with the woman whose husband does not want anything to do with her. It requires some reading between the lines of the story born of personal experience. The biggest clue is her proactive pushing to get what she wants and that she escalates the pushiness. She is trying to control the situation and her husband instead of looking out for what is best for him. It’s almost certain she’s been this way with him from the start.
From what she wrote about her husband wanting nothing to do with her, it is obvious that she has become and inconvenience to him which is another way of saying he does not value her very much. Usually, this means that Maniacs’ take of disrespect is the most likely culprit. Too much attitude, sass, and mouth will eventually kill a man’s once vibrant love for his wife. If he doesn’t believe in divorce, cares about his kids, or merely has a calculator, he realizes that he’s stuck with picking between unattractive options.
At this point she becomes merely utilitarian to him. Any deviation from the role of household beast of burden (pun absolutely intended) is an annoyance to him because, in his mind, she’s outside the role her past behavior has earned her.
If she truly wants to change her husband, she’ll need to do some deep reflection on her behavior and words. Her best chance of winning him over is to be apologetic for past controlling ways and words and then living that contriteness. It will take a year or two, but unless he is an absolute monster, he’ll come around. The way she paints him makes him sound like an average guy who gets up and goes to work every day, so he’s probably not a monster of a man.
My 2 cents on what I think could be going on …
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RPA:
Yes. To all of what you and Jack said.
Or, the husband is gay, like Oscar said. That’s not all that far-fetched. I’ve met two couples where the husband came out in later life.
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There’s a lot of important information missing here, but my first question is always, “Was he like this when you first got married?”
She answered that question.
Assuming she’s telling the truth, that brings up more questions. How did he behave before they got married? Assuming that they didn’t have sex before marriage (another question she didn’t answer), it’s pretty obvious when a young man has the hots for a young woman. Did he have the hots for her before marriage? If not, why did they get married? If so, what changed after marriage?
That brings up other questions she didn’t answer. How old are they? What do they look like? A man with healthy levels of testosterone will want sex. A young man with healthy testosterone levels won’t be fat, flabby, or constantly tired (as she describes him). Was he? What about her? Was she fat? Did that change? If the answer to any of those questions is “yes”, why did they get married?
Did he constantly complain about stomach problems or make other lame excuses before they got married? If not, what changed? If so, why did they get married?
How has she treated him before and after marriage?
Another possibility is that this guy may have homosexual tendencies. One of my mom’s friends was married to a gay man. Someone warned her anonymously before they got married, but she dismissed the warning as malicious gossip. This guy sounds a lot like my mom’s friend’s husband, having sex only to have children, and otherwise constantly making lame excuses for why he didn’t want sex from his wife. My mom’s friend didn’t learn the truth (or admit to it might be more accurate) until he came up positive for HIV because he was having sex with other men the whole time. However, that was the ’80s. People are much more tolerant of homosexuality today, so it’s much less likely to happen. Has there ever been any indication of homosexual tendencies? If so, why did they get married?
Ultimately, if she’s telling the truth, her husband is sinning. She may be sinning too, but if we’re going to hold women accountable for their sin regardless of what their husbands are doing, then we need to do the same for men.
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Yep denial of sex in marriage including the part where they started celibate for 8 years. They should have separated before then. Since the marriage hasn’t even been consummated.
That was a huge waste of time.
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If Husband and Wife don’t have the hots for each other at all. Then marriage should be off the table.
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@ info
I re-read “mom with teenagers'” comment, and seriously, her husband sounds like my mom’s friend’s gay husband who died of AIDS back in the ’80s.
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@Oscar
Even if the man is handsome but a sodomite or sodomy inclined. Women should be disgusted. It’s like they are asking for potential STD’s from their Husbands.
Yep. He fits the sodomite bill alright. Women should be counseled on this also so they avoid marrying or quickly getting out of sham marriages with gay men like this.
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You know why I don’t believe this story?
Because it’s all 100% “his fault” according to her. She did everything exactly perfectly; and he did everything exactly wrong. Her marital problems are all his fault, all his responsibility. She bears no culpability whatsoever, in her mind.
Life and relationships just don’t work that way. Not once have I ever seen a failed relationship in which the fault ran 100% to one party. She did at least a few things wrong.
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thedeti,
I mentioned this in my previous comment up thread, but it’s worth mentioning again. 1 Peter 3:4 mentions that a woman’s true beauty is her meek spirit.
When you read the woman’s account of her marriage in her own words, you’ll see her admit that she is pressing him to do what she wants him to do regarding sexual intimacy. Can you imagine what she’d like if he doesn’t do what she wants him to do around the house? Her story is of how she has pressed him and even though it’s about good things for the marriage, she’s still the one taking the aggressive stance. Judging by the way he wants nothing to do with her, I think she just might be that kind of aggressive in other areas of their marriage.
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…then 17 things were listed below.
As I scanned the list, the thought came to mind, “This is what modern women are interested in when they 1) Don’t know Christ; and 2) Have no higher purpose in life other than to please themselves, i.e. no husband or children.”
This is why vetting is still important. If a woman is exhibiting these 17 things as their “primary purpose” in life, then they are not marriage material. I’m sure the argument will be made that if they get this stuff out of their system when they are young, i.e. say by 25 years old or so, then they’ll still be fit for marriage. However, I’ve heard some content creators say even 25 years old is too late. If this is the stuff their life is made up of throughout the first half of their twenties, watch out! You’re going to be dealing with some form of this as they get older if their “flesh” has had a taste of this lifestyle during their twentysomething years. (BTW, two seem okay to me, 6 and 10; and maybe 9, 15, and 16, if not done to the extreme, i.e. excessive time and/or money spent on them. The rest of the items, all red flags):
1) Adventures, partying, traveling, etc.
2) Attracting attention, usually by creating drama, social media, wearing revealing clothing, etc.
3) Emoting, and eliciting emotion from others, including men.
4) Catharsis, entertainment, media, etc,
5) Fantasy, solipsism, gnosticism, etc.
6) Friendships
7) Garnering social proof, getting positive feedback, compliments, flattery, etc.
8) Losing self-control
9) Masturbating
10) Physical activities, sports, jogging, etc.
11) Playing sociopsychological games with people, especially men and men’s emotions
12) Pretty lies
13) Sex with high SMV men
14) Seeking Validation from men
15) Self-care, manicures, massages, etc.
16) Shopping, spending $$$
17) Socializing, talking, gossiping, etc.
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RPB,
I like your comment because you are putting together the ideas from the last few posts and reaching the inevitable conclusion. A lot has been written about vetting — red flags, the overall importance, what to look for, and so on. But down at its core, we are looking at character, emotional and spiritual maturity, and the motivations of the woman in question. The only real way to prove vetting is by determining whether she identifies with his Purpose and becomes a part of his Mission. Young Christian Men need to focus on these things, and not get distracted by the obvious.
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Yes. Like I’ve said before, to simplify things in my mind, there are three gates a woman needs to pass through when vetting her for a possible LTR/marriage: 1) Attractiveness (she passes the boner test), 2) Personality (good chemistry with the man, aka they get along), and 3) good CHARACTER. That third one requires time, a deeper look at her ways of being and behavior over time. It can’t be masked indefinitely; it will show itself in time and under the pressures of life. This is also true for a guy as well when a woman is vetting him for LTR/marriage: “Are you listening ladies with your Chad fixations?”
There can be red flags in the attractiveness and personality areas, i.e. slut tells and personality disorders, and these should not be overlooked; however, a woman who gets through gates 1 and 2, still needs to be vetted for gate 3, her character. I’ve lived long enough to see a few female “chameleons” in my lifetime, i.e., they can play the “good girl” role when it suits them for a period of time, however the man really needs to take his time and vet her character as well. IOW, some “good girls” are not really “good,” they’re only fool’s gold in the end.
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Just as an aside, all of the regulars on here know who I am. It’s not hard to figure out. So this isn’t really “anonymity” but rather something like “level one search proof.” If you would like the entire story of what happened (and I don’t have your email), please feel to contact me through Jack, and I will fill you in.
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