Deti’s Advice to Underqualified Men

Identify your sphere of influence and be selective.

Readership: Men
Theme: Giving the gift of yourself to others.
Author’s Note: This essay is based on a discussion Rock Kitaro, NovaSeeker, and I had under a previous post, Taking Headship by Force (2021-05-26), and is coauthored with Jack. Links to original comments are embedded in the first word of a paragraph. NovaSeeker’s words are in blue.
Length: 2,900 words
Reading Time: 10 minutes

Introduction

When men enter into the SMP, it feels like it’s all hit or miss. Then they go through a phase of trying to figure out what women like and want, as if he could somehow work harder or say the right words and then he could check those boxes and make the sale.

What guys fail to understand about themselves is that this whole paradigm of striving for women is based on the fact that the guy has already picked out which woman (or women) he wants, and is therefore spinning his wheels trying to attain that idealistic goal. In taking this approach, he is not only setting himself up for failure, but he is also excluding a lot of possibilities.

Success is not about getting the girl you want. Instead, the key for success lies in identifying your sphere of potential influence, and working it to your advantage.

I’ll use the examples of height and baldness to explain how this works in the remainder of this essay. But the same principles could apply to just about any limitation (e.g. lack of athleticism, looks, wealth, etc.).

Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Devito star in Twins (1988).

Identify Your Qualifiers

As men well know, women have a long list of qualifiers, and a small number of them are crucial.

Height first works as a threshold, cost of admission test. “He must be taller than me.” This is by far the most common requirement, even if women never say it. Almost all women want a man taller than she is. “He must be at least 6 feet.” Height in these instances isn’t an attractant, it’s the minimum entry requirement. “You must be at least this tall to ride this ride.” Like that.

If you’re in that tall guy sweet spot, which is around 6 feet to 6’3″, now height is an attractant. Now height will be used with other attractive features. But if you’re a tall guy and have no other attractants, well, you’re gonna have a hard time. Tall is necessary, but not sufficient.

That’s correct. This is why I was able to do “better” with women than many (not all, lol) of the guys I knew who were taller than me. They didn’t have the “height exclusion” against them, but they could have various other things against them (personality, face, fitness, humor, social skills, mastery, etc, etc.). The key difference between them and someone like me is that out of a room of 100 women, only roughly 50 or so, give or take, were in my “potential pool”. 100 were in their potential pool. But … by having more other things in my favor, I could do better in my pool of 50 women than some of them could in their pool of 100 women. All guys need to have some of those other things going for them, whether they are taller or shorter, in any case. If you are short, you need some more of them going for you, because your pool is smaller and … here is the critical thing … it’s a pool that taller men are also competing in, too! So you need to outcompete them also in your smaller pool — you just need to be more competitive, generally, in order to be successful.

Plus, with guys who are shorter than average height, how much shorter than average you are matters. Average height in the US for white guys is 5’9″ (Source). Even guys at that height get some height-related exclusions (the magic number here is 6’0″ in order to avoid any exclusion based on height), but every inch you go lower the harder it gets. So at my height, it’s pretty challenging in that the more attractive girls are just completely off the table for you unless you have very outlierish characteristics in other areas (are actually famous, and very wealthy and so on).

Salmon Rushdie and Padma Lakshmi

Guys who are just below that (say 5’8″) still do okay, but do get a good amount of height exclusion as you get to the prettier girls. I have known quite a few guys like this who have consistently dated 6s with perhaps the occasional 7. But generally not a steady diet of 7s, and 8+ is off the table (again, unless they have outlierish other characteristics).

In my height (5’6″), if you really push it in terms of looksmaxing, style and so on, and you have good social skills, you can date mostly 6s. You will have a very hard time dating 7s at all, or anything higher than that, unless you have outlierish other characteristics. And the thing at this height is that if you take your foot off the gas when it comes to maxing what you do have, you fall like a stone — that is, you don’t fall from 6s to 5s, you fall from 6s to 4s and lower in terms of women who are willing to date you. You can’t be a “normal” guy at this height unless you’re interested in below average girls, or being celibate. You have to work it.

As you get lower than my height, it gets really bleak for straight men. I have spoken with a number of guys over the years (in course of giving advice to shorter men) who are in the 5’4″ and 5’3″ range — and, really, these guys were incels. Even objectively unattractive women were not interested in them due to their size (again, barring other outlierish characteristics). No real answers for men in that range, but I will say this — quite a few of these guys today seem to be opting to become transgenders. Probably they realize that they can do better as a fake woman, sexually, than they can as straight men, and with all the propaganda today that is pro-LGBT I can understand how that could happen — as straight men, they’re pretty much SOL. In the past, these guys would have been priests or monks or something, but today … not a good life in a world where sex is pretty much at the top of the list in social importance in a very flagrant and open way.

Height works against you if you’re like 6’5″ and up. That gets to be viewed as freakishly tall. Advantage: Women 6 feet and up could gravitate to supertall men.

Women over 6 feet will often compromise on height because they have to. I once dated a 6’2″ former professional volleyball player. I’m 5’11”, I juuust missed the magic 6 feet mark. She played in the European leagues, had been on college scholarship, the whole bit. She often said she’d date shorter men simply because they were available and taller men were not. It didn’t last, of course, but she was open to dating shorter men simply because getting to date men was more important to her than holding out for a taller man. If she chose the latter, her dating opportunities would have been severely limited.

David Cross and Amber Tamblyn

Control Your Pool Size

I want to explore the concept of “doing better in the smaller pool”. This is important for a lot of men who get down into intersexual dynamics.

I was in a similar boat as NovaSeeker, but my flaw was and is baldness. I started going bald at 17. I spent the 7 years of college and grad school going from Norwood 2 to 4. By age 25, I was at Norwood 5. Now, baldness is different from height in that it starts to matter less the older you get. But – and here’s the kicker – when you start receding and losing your hair in high school, it’s really bad. It’s terrible to be in college, 20, 21, and be noticeably thinning out on top when most men your age have really good thick hair. It’s terrible for your self-esteem, your social life, and your confidence. It really is – because you stand out so much and because it makes you look 10 years older than you are.

The only thing I did right was avoid creative combing. I did just about everything else wrong.

How do you deal with this? How do I wish I’d been coached on how to deal with it?

1. Accept that this is how it is.

You’re balding, going bald. There’s nothing you can do about it. Just own it, shave it or cut it very short, and just let it go. You are not a top 20% man. You’re just not, at least not right now. You’re a 6 at best. Yes, that stings. Put some Bactine on it, shake it off, and get moving again. That’s life. That’s YOUR life. You are genetically predestined to get great tans on your head.

Actor Ed Harris and wife Amy Madigan (2015 March 9). (Photo by Evan Agostini/Invision/AP)

2. Accept that being young and bald means your dating pool is limited.

Right out of the gate, your pool is limited to around 40% of all women in your age cohort. By that, I mean you are just out of the running for at least 60% of all women in your age cohort. You’re young and bald, so for that majority, you’re a no go from the get go. Yes, that stings again. Keep that Bactine handy. It gets better, I promise.

When you write off the 60% that’s already written you off, you can concentrate on the 40% that hasn’t written you off. You can become a big fish in that little pond if you max other things. And if you’re a big fish, the women in your little pool will really like you. So the moral of that story is: don’t even think about the 60% that’s eliminated you. Don’t even try. Don’t even go there. Don’t waste your time and don’t get needlessly frustrated. Find your pool, stay in it, and work within it.

Many times, I made that exact mistake. I tried to jump out of my little pool and swim with some of my follicularly gifted friends. I got plucked out of the big pool pretty fast. If I had stayed in my little pool, I would not have wasted time and effort on women who would never consider me. That, right there, was a source of great frustration and pain for me. But it didn’t have to be. It was, because I would not accept that I couldn’t swim in the 60% pool. I would not accept that 8s and 9s were not in my wheelhouse. I couldn’t accept that the one 8 I did snag was a complete and total fluke, and was completely out of the ordinary for me. Never happened before or since.

Look: This isn’t fair. It’s just how it is. This is how it is when you have a glaring physical flaw as a young man.

Ex con Jeremy Meeks never has a shortage of women in rotation.

3. Accept that it’s going to be this way.

And it will be this way for quite a while – at least until you’re 30, and probably beyond. Small pool for you until your 30s. That’s just how it is. You are not going to slay 8s, 9s and 10s. Not happening. You are not taking home a different girl from the frat house party every other weekend. Not happening. You can, however, date 5s and 6s who may want casual sex, sometimes, but who will more likely expect more from you.

4. Remember that your pond is not isolated.

Pitfall: Even the women in your 40% pool will be like the 60% pool. Remember the women in your 40% pool can swim in the 60% pool too. They’re dating you, and the men above you. (And make no mistake: they are above you. They are objectively more sexually attractive and appealing than you are. They just are. They don’t have your flaw. That puts them above you. I told you to keep the Bactine on hand.)

So women in your pool have an advantage. They can and will demand more from you than they will from the guys in the 60%. To them, you’re not Fun Casual Date Guy. You’re Nice Steady Relationship Guy. You’re not Alpha McGorgeous. They see you as Billy Beta. And they’ll work on shoehorning you into the Billy Beta role.

They’ll demand that you go all in on commitment. They’ll run intersexual dynamics power plays on you. They’ll hold out on physical involvement, they’ll demand drinks and dinners. Alpha gets the fun; Billy has to wine and dine and work for it.

Actor Bruce Willis and his wife, Emma Heming

The way you have to deal with that is you go really slowly with them and keep them at arm’s length. Go slowly. Spin plates Christian style. Do things to distinguish yourself in the 40% pool. Nobody gets your exclusive commitment until she’s shown she won’t play games. This is where the “you step into my frame” and “you come to me, I don’t come to you” is crucial. If you’re a 40% guy you must adopt that attitude. Because even a 5 will absolutely steamroll you, if you allow it.

You must not compromise on “I’m the man, I’m running the show. It’s fine if you don’t like it, there’s the door.” You must set the terms. You must remember that there are still more in the 40%. And yeah, some will walk away, because they think they can control you and find out they can’t and they’ll move to other targets. But some of those women will be attracted to it and will start working for it. And there will be a few women with whom you can have relationships on your terms. (Now you can put the Bactine away.)

The thing is that you’ll have to wait longer and select from a much smaller pool. Because even in the 40% pool, a big number of those women will not go for “He’s in charge. I’ll submit. I’ll step into his frame” with you. This is to be expected in today’s market – why should they submit to a 40% pool man when maybe they can do better? Some women will look at it that way. But some women will not – they’ll see they’ve got a pretty good deal. However, you have to preserve that dynamic through the entire relationship. You don’t ever get to let up. You have to keep that going, forever.

The last thing I want to say is that if you’re in the 40% pool, you still have to adopt the mindset of “I set the terms, you step into my frame, you come to me. If you can’t or won’t do that, no relationship.”

Yes, you’ll be eliminating a lot of regular 40% swimmers. Just remember: You either do it that way, or you end up a guy married 15 years at your wit’s end with your marriage, your financial well-being, and the well-being of your children hanging off a cliff by their fingernails.

Such is the life of an early baldy in the late 20th- early 21st century. Hope this helps.

Epilogue

The TLDR for a premature balding man is: Even if you’re negotiating from what you think is a worse position, it’s better to stay single and not date, than it is to do it her way and step into her frame.

I’m a lawyer, and one of the things we do is a lot of mediation. When you go to a mediation you list out the things you must have and the things you can compromise on. Well, you are losing when you start giving up things you must have. So you don’t do it.

When it gets down to what we in the biz call “nut cuttin’ time”, you hold out for what you must have. If you can’t get what you must have, you walk away. No Deal. You physically walk away. You get up and you walk away from the table and out of the room. We all give each other a day or three to think about it.

Very often, when you do that, you find out that, hey, the other side does want to keep talking. They’ve found it in their hearts (and checkbooks) to give you what you need, so we can make a deal that everyone’s more or less happy with. It’s to everyone’s advantage to make the deal.

So it is with girls. Hold out for what you must have. Susie Snowflake, it’s now nut cuttin’ time. You come to me. You step into my frame. Must haves, baby, or No Deal. No? OK. I’m done. It was fun, but No Deal. Sometimes, Susie doesn’t come back. No Deal. And if it really is No Deal, that’s fine, but you have to make that stick and not compromise one inch on it.

But sometimes she does come back. And a Deal is made, and everyone’s happy. But you must hold up your end of the bargain and diligently make her hold up her end. You remind her of the deal, that that’s how it is, you’re not changing it, and she is expected to uphold her end of it.

Doing so displays the strength that they respect.

This entry was posted in Attitude, Attraction, Authenticity, Building Wealth, Charisma, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Confidence, Conserving Power, Courtship and Marriage, Determination, Discipline, Enduring Suffering, Fundamental Frame, Game Theory, Handling Rejection, Holding Frame, Identity, Indicators of Interest, Inner Game, Introspection, Male Power, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Perseverance, Personal Presentation, Persuasion, Power, Purpose, Questions from Readers, Relationships, Respect, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, SMV/MMV, Sphere of Influence, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

55 Responses to Deti’s Advice to Underqualified Men

  1. Rock Kitaro says:

    A lot of harsh truths in here, but truths I think a lot of people would benefit from sooner than later. MTR did a video recently with women crying about the effects of feminism (how they were misled by it), and one woman in particular hurt my heart. She’s black, not the most pleasing to the eye, but I saw potential. She was literally crying with actual tears about how she’s “desperate for a man” and had no shame in admitting it. Like, any man would do, she said. And I just kept thinking… I wish someone could give her some “harsh truths” that might improve her chances.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Scavos says:

      “A lot of harsh truths in here, but truths I think a lot of people would benefit from sooner than later.”

      This post definitely hit home for me with the harsh truths, but it’s better to have it hit now than when it’s too late. The real challenge is doing some self-reflection (in no way, a painless process), and that is what trips people up. I am no exception to this.

      “And I just kept thinking… I wish someone could give her some “harsh truths” that might improve her chances.”

      That makes two of us. More than likely, she’d be more receptive to the harsh truths if it was coming from a woman. I can’t think of too many who fit the bill, outside of Lori Alexander.

      Liked by 3 people

      • thedeti says:

        Heh. No, they scream and stomp their feet when it comes from Lori Alexander.

        Alexander herself said, “men prefer virgins without tattoos and debt for commitment.”

        Christian women promptly lost their minds. Sheila Gregoire lost it. Her daughter went positively apoplectic. The chick who calls herself “insanitybytes2” wrote like 18 blog posts in a month about this. I’ll see if I can find the videos.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        @deti,

        Sex enables them to get stuff from men: attention, commitment, time, love, etc. But if virginity mattered then it would be a trick that only works once for them so there would be a lot of pressure to stick the landing. So, yeah, they get triggered by what Lori says.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Scavos says:

        @thedeti

        Never said it was a guarantee, but you’re right. I wouldn’t be surprised at the negative reactions to her, by women in the church. I almost forgot about insanitybytes2. I think I last read her comments on nightwind777 and we-hunted-the-mammoth’s blogs, if memory serves. Can’t say I’ll be forgetting about Shiela’s daughter, though, given the video rant she made.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        “No, they scream and stomp their feet when it comes from Lori Alexander.”

        The ones who saved themselves for their husbands don’t scream and stomp their feet. It’s a source of pride for them or at least not triggering to them. Of course that’s like 5% of them or whatever.

        Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      If she’s truly sorry, you’d think she’d make it a habit to counsel younger girls not to make the same mistakes she did.

      Liked by 4 people

      • feeriker says:

        That takes two things:

        1– Self-awareness
        2– An understanding of cause and effect

        How many women do you know who are endowed with either of those two things?

        Liked by 2 people

  2. feeriker says:

    “…women crying about the effects of feminism (how they were misled by it)…”

    And yet how many of those same women would give up the spillover benefits (e.g., his-fault divorce, abortion on demand, the franchise, financial independence, etc.) that feminism has brought them, but that lie at the root of their suffering, “benefits” that need to be done away with if conditions are ever to be created that give them a chance at real happiness?

    I thought so.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Maniac says:

      As I often say, the worst type of Feminist is the one who doesn’t realize that she is one.

      Liked by 3 people

      • feeriker says:

        Exactly. Almost ALL women in the western world today are de facto feminists just based on the lifestyle choices they make. Try suggesting to any woman who insists that she’s not a feminist that she start adopting traditionally feminine attitudes toward sex, men, children, and family. Then watch the hellflames erupt and be prepared to have your eardrums shattered by enraged screams.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        That’s pretty damned good. I’ll have to remember it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        I’m going to channel my inner Oscar here.

        So you’re telling me that women are sinful and they all rebel against their husband’s authority just like the bible says they will? I’m SHOCKED!

        Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        “Exactly. Almost ALL women in the western world today are de facto feminists just based on the lifestyle choices they make.”

        The dirtiest of the dirty little secrets they don’t want you to know.

        Go to some church girl and tell her that she’s sinning by sleeping with her boyfriend. Go to a Catholic married woman and watch her shriek as you confront her with the truth that her use of ANY form of birth control/contraception is in direct contravention to Catholic doctrine. Go to a church women’s meeting and watch the discomfort mount as you tell them abortion is murder and God hates divorce. Then come the yabbutts and inobutts.

        “Yeah, but…..”

        “I know, but…”

        “Well, I know, yeah, but… What if there’s rape? What about incest? What about the life of the mother??”

        “I know, but… What if he’s beating her or cheating on her? What if he abandoned her? What if he’s mean to her?”

        Want to see the church ladies scream like that demon in The Exorcist? Say the word SUBMIT to them. Say submission. They’ll climb the walls and lose their minds.

        Liked by 5 people

      • cameron232 says:

        I suppose you have to specify what stage of feminism. Any woman that is opposed to taking the vote away from women is a feminist, just an older-stage one. I saw some woman, presumably Catholic, taking potshots (head up his @$$) at Adam Piggott because he thinks women shouldn’t vote. A Catholic feminist.

        I think when most people say “feminist” now, they mean feminist by contemporary standards. A Democrat who is obnoxiously anti-male.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ RPA

        “I’m going to channel my inner Oscar here…”

        One of these days, I need to create an actual account, so I can “like” comments.

        Like

  3. feeriker says:

    Good words of advice, Deti. The only problem I see with it is that the women in the “40% pool” aren’t worth the effort. Then again, neither are most of the women in the “60% pool.”

    Liked by 2 people

    • Sharkly says:

      Maybe the best shot at a decent wife for many men will be in a foreign country. Where they might be considered a rich, mysterious, and adventurous foreigner, and thereby have a little more attraction to some of the native girls. Perhaps a local church there could recommend some pious girls to try meeting. Otherwise prospects currently seem to be getting dimmer for finding an unspoiled, virtuous, and beautiful lady here, unless you won the genetic lottery.

      Liked by 2 people

      • feeriker says:

        “Maybe the best shot at a decent wife for many men will be in a foreign country.”

        It’s worked out very well for me. No, such women are by no means perfect, but they are far less toxic and risky than AW.

        Liked by 2 people

      • redpillboomer says:

        Interestingly, I know a white guy, 62, who re-located to Vietnam probably about eight years ago, so he’d been about 54 at the time. He’s okay for an older man: fairly handsome, build is decent, but nothing like an ‘older, middle-aged Chad.’ Also, he’s not loaded, some money, but I get the idea not a whole lot. He’s also married to a Vietnamese woman, in her early thirties, and they have two kids, about six and four years old.

        Now, here’s the interesting part. When I briefly got a look at her during a Zoom meeting I was on with my friend as she momentarily transited the back of the room he was Zooming from, I was like, “OM freakin’ G!” She was a really good looking Asian chick. I was like, “You’ve got to be kidding me?” But then, my RP lens re-adjusted to what I saw, and I realized Manospherian’s have been saying this about Asian women for quite some time. Even an average, slightly above average man can find a good looking Asian wife. Of course, they also say you better stay over there with them and not bring them back to the States or they’ll catch the F-disease. Guess I witnessed ‘one data point’ concerning this apparently all-to-real real phenomenon.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Devon70 says:

        I saw a brief documentary on a group of American guys that went to Colombia. One of them was an average 49 year old guy named David that met and married a 42 year old women that was still thin and feminine. Based on the comments they’re still happily married after ten years. In the next 25 years I would bet a lot more average guys will be going to other countries because the options here are terrible. A guy like David doesn’t have much value here (he isn’t hot or rich) but he has qualities that are valued in most of the world.

        Liked by 2 people

      • locustsplease says:

        The Czech Republic would have been my choice. Most women look like models. They are the prettiest, softest, sweetest, best bartenders and servers you have ever seen. I was totally shocked and they can cook better than even my mom who is a great Martha Stewart type home chef. But an extremely low Christianity rate. They are widely thought of as the most feminine women in the world — and it’s no joke! Even the best American woman over there would be 0-5 because the hottest women you see there have been cooking since little girls and are 10s for personality.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ locustsplease

        “The Czech Republic would have been my choice. Most women look like models.”

        Funny story time.

        During my second tour in Afghanistan, there was a Czech EOD detachment on our base. All of them were tall (the “shortest” male was 6’0″), and super fit. One of them was female. She was about 5’10”, always wore her hair in a long, braided ponytail, and was beautiful (granted, a man’s perception gets skewed in Afghanistan). My Soldiers used to call her “Lara Croft”, because of the ponytail.

        One day, we were relaxing in the “day room”, when one of my Soldiers suddenly burst in the door. “Lara’s in the gym!” he yelled, excitedly. All my other Soldiers jumped up, and ran out after him.

        Kids these days….

        Like

      • locustsplease says:

        @oscar
        I’ve met 2 in America that were directly brought over here within a few years, and I knew they were even before they told me. One was so nice I thought she was making fun of me? Their faces barely age; they are stoic, pretty with a soft smile; they aren’t doing all these ridiculous constant emotions American women are doing. You go into a dive bar and Lara Croft brings you a dark beer with the best service ever, while her sister serves homemade dumplings, beef and bread. I could have died over there. I’m sure being stuck with one in Afghanistan helped morale.

        A lot of them look like Denise Milani but not as top heavy. It’s a common look — tall, straight jet black hair, and great curves.

        Like

  4. Joe2 says:

    But if all or even most of the women in your “40% pool” are below your threshold level of attraction (they don’t pass the boner test), then what? I guess you’re SOL and have to accept the fact that you’ll be an incel.

    Like

    • Jack says:

      If a man is healthy, under the age of 25, and is NOT jerking off to p0rn every day, then 80% of women will pass the boner test. This is part of the problem.

      Men are stuck in a dilemma. If they are jerking off all the time, then their threshold of attraction becomes higher and they lose the motivation to approach, essentially pushing them out of the SMP. OTOH, if they DON’T relieve themselves, then they’ll hit on anything with a fuzzy wet orifice that breathes. This is bad because because women can smell the desperation and are repelled, thereby reducing the man’s pool of potentials/eligibles. It’s a risk because they’ll fail to vet properly, make hasty decisions, and choose poorly. It gets worse because the grape culture in the west will recast almost any initiation as a grape.

      I’m waiting for medical research to identify the combination of hormones that cause male horniness, and for big pharma to invent a drug that can control this to get the benefits of testosterone without the sex-crazed mindhaze. Compare this to how birth control pills for women control hormones for fertility but not their hypergamous sex drive. Compare this to viagra which stimulates erections but not hormones. This will not only allow men to think with the big head rather than the little head, but it will also curtail lust, porn, fapping, simping, and the copious amounts of money and superfluous attention given to females, thereby saving them time and money. Then the playing field will be a little more “equal” (unless it’s mandated for sub-par males — shudder!!!).

      Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        The boner test is a lower standard than the “will marry” test. A non-overweight young woman can give you a boner unless she is deformed or something.

        A 40th percentile girl, looks-wise, in 2021 America isn’t someone you’d want to marry. Lots of fatties, tatties, purple-hair, weird piercings, etc. And I’m just talking about looks. Factor in personality and it’s way less than 40%. Maybe a 40th percentile Taiwanese or Romanian girl is different.

        There’s two ways around this. Get into the upper middle class where the women are more attractive or find a VERY traditional church. All the Duggar girls are acceptably attractive. I’ve only seen one fat Duggar-daughter friend in years of watching the show.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. feeriker says:

    “Say the word SUBMIT to them. Say submission. They’ll climb the walls and lose their minds.”

    Which always brings me back to this question: If they will openly and angrily defy one of God’s most fundamental commandments to them, then why should anyone believe that they’re obedient to Him in anything else?

    If a woman won’t fully submit to God (and disobeying the commandment to submit to her husband is an act of this), then there’s no way she’ll ever submit to a husband.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. thedeti says:

    (A note on style: The lower case “d” in deti is intentional. The “d” is not intended to be capitalized. I have my reasons for that.)

    I had a discussion with Red Pill Apostle off list, and he pointed out something. It’s that we as men tend to get an overly romanticized view toward women and marriage. It happens because for most of us, we have limited pools of women available to us. Most men have to operate in limited pools. And a lot of women in those small pools are unsuitable. All well and good. RP 101.

    Where it gets difficult is the women “hurt by feminism”, and our responses. We men are going to have to get really ruthless with ourselves and other women on this. We men are hardwired to leap into white knight “here I come to save the day” mode when faced with a woman damseling it up. Women are hardwired to trigger that protective instinct in men — they know all they have to do is start crying. It’s straight up manipulation and women do this without even knowing they’re doing it.

    That said, there’s a lot of emphasis in the comments on finding women from other cultures. I think this is not the best route for most men.

    Most men can’t afford to go to Eastern Europe, the developing world, or southeast Asia for women. Women are women, they all have standard hardwiring that can’t be designed out (hypergamy and the tendency to filter everything through feelings). Going out of our culture isn’t going to solve that problem.

    The better route is to improve ourselves and make any women we deal with enter our frames, so we can mold and shape our women into our wives. We men aren’t trained well on how to identify women malleable enough to do this. We men also aren’t well trained on how to take women and make them OUR wives.

    It’s the job of a woman’s parents to make her into a wife. It’s the job of her husband to make her into HIS wife. It was Mrs. Apostle’s parents’ job to make her into a wife — to give her the necessary basic domestic skills and cultivate feminine personality traits to make her into wife material. It is RPA’s job to make Mrs. Apostle HIS wife — to make clear what his frame is and what his expectations are, to set out how he wants to live his life and what kind of family life he wants, and to create the environment and boundaries for her to operate within and then expect her to remain within them. This takes two things: A man who can find potential wives and provide marital framework; and a malleable wife material woman willing to step into and work within the framework he provides.

    What happens, I think, is men and women not fitting into their proper roles. Men don’t provide framework and make expectations clear and stick to them. Men don’t learn to look for wives; instead they look for sex partners. Women don’t learn wifely skills and aren’t malleable. Women don’t look for men with their own frames; they make feminine frames and then try to find men to fit into those frames. Women don’t look for husbands; instead they look for “partners” and equals and moneymen.

    Women: “I get to be a wife and mommy and nest and have babies and get my house and minivan!”

    Men: “I get to keep this girl I’ve been banging! Let’s get the sex party train going! Let the good times roll!”

    What happened with Mrs. deti and me, is that I was not good at spotting potential. I failed to make clear how I wanted to live and I did not provide any framework. I tolerated way too much nonsense and crappy attitude from Mrs. deti. I looked to Mrs. deti to provide that framework and I changed to suit her, not the other way around. Mrs. deti, for her part, received mixed messages from her parents on how to be a wife. She was going to run things her way, and very nearly destroyed everything. She had to learn how to be molded and shaped, and that could happen only after she had suffered breakage, damage, and pain.

    We will do women a disservice by rushing in to “save” them after they cry about being “hurt by feminism”. Let them repair their own damage, heal their own breakage first. We don’t owe them anything. To a great extent, they have brought this on themselves. If they want to be “fixed”, let them come to God with broken and contrite hearts, ready to be molded and shaped.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Devon70 says:

      I’ve been an engineer for 30 years and have worked with many women that grew up in conservative cultures and moved here for or after college. None of these women turned into raging feminists that are on Tinder and they have had BY FAR the healthiest marriages. Women that have grown up in this degenerate decadent culture can’t (or won’t) even control their eating and there isn’t any “Alpha” behavior or mind games that’s going to make them into good wives.

      Liked by 2 people

    • feeriker says:

      “It’s the job of a woman’s parents to make her into a wife. It’s the job of her husband to make her into HIS wife.”

      Both halves of this statement are absolutely true. Unfortunately, if the first half isn’t done, the second half becomes difficult or borderline impossible. I don’t think I need to tell anyone in these parts that most parents in the Western world today, especially here in the USSA, are L-O-U-S-Y at the job (and that’s probably putting it too politely), in all of its facets and demands. Indeed, if parenting were an activity that required licensing and certification, most men and women would never be certified in the first place and the few that somehow managed to get certified would have their credentials yanked after the first audit of their performance. Let’s just put it this way: In a society where the divorce rate is heading north of 50 percent and where marriage is on its way to becoming an anachronism, how many women are going to have had any “wife training” prior to leaving the nest to go off cock carousel hopping (euphemistically known as “going to college”)? As a percentage of the total of available single women, these represent very low single digits, if not a fractional figure. Granted, young men aren’t getting any training in how to be husbands, either, since ensuring that their offspring form stable marriages and families isn’t a priority for most of today’s “parents.” However, the ratio of men seeking marriageable women is higher than the reverse, and with the statistics being what they are, I don’t see how we’re going to avoid a situation where most men, especially Christian men, wind up being incels due to lack of marriageable women. When even “Christian” women aren’t being raised to be wives, that pains a grim picture for the future.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        “It’s the job of a woman’s parents to make her into a wife. It’s the job of her husband to make her into HIS wife.”

        “Both halves of this statement are absolutely true. Unfortunately, if the first half isn’t done, the second half becomes difficult or borderline impossible.”

        It is exceedingly difficult to do the second half if you have not already started the process when you are dating by stating your expectations of her if you were to marry. If you start early though, women will self select away from being married to you if they don’t like your standards or conform if they are acceptable. The discomfort of the process at this stage of a relationship is far more preferable than the pain of doing it while married and the nearly unmitigable pain of doing it if kids are involved.

        Like

    • Oscar says:

      “What happened with Mrs. deti and me, is that I was not good at spotting potential. I failed to make clear how I wanted to live and I did not provide any framework. I tolerated way too much nonsense and crappy attitude from Mrs. deti. I looked to Mrs. deti to provide that framework and I changed to suit her, not the other way around.”

      I bet all of us can relate to at least some of that.

      “We will do women a disservice by rushing in to “save” them after they cry about being “hurt by feminism”. Let them repair their own damage, heal their own breakage first. We don’t owe them anything. To a great extent, they have brought this on themselves. If they want to be “fixed”, let them come to God with broken and contrite hearts, ready to be molded and shaped.”

      Amen! This idea that “God forgives, therefore man up and marry that slut” is not even remotely Biblical. Yes, God forgives, but that’s between her and God. She already has “an advocate with the Father”, and it ain’t you, young man.

      Liked by 2 people

  7. thedeti says:

    Another thing for bald or short(er) men: Don’t even think about getting serious about a woman until you’re at least 30, and probably more toward 35. You need to spend time building up your value and getting your body into shape.

    My mistake was thinking that I needed to lock down a woman. My dysfunctional thinking was this:

    To get what I wanted, I needed to get married just as soon as possible. If I did not get married while I was in my mid 20s and at Norwood 5, I would never get married. No woman would ever want me. I was as physically attractive as I was ever going to be, it would never get better, and it was all downhill from here for me. So there’s no point in working on myself or my body. if I don’t get a woman now, no woman will ever want me later.

    What I should have done was this:

    Don’t even think about getting serious with a woman. Spend a lot of time not dating anyone. Work on getting into shape and getting fit. Work on my career. Save and invest money. Then around 30, maybe think about dating.

    If you’re a short guy or a bald guy, you MUST get a body. You MUST get fit. You CANNOT be a flabby, out of shape bald guy at 28. That’s not going to cut it.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      My younger brother is 5’7″ and went completely bald by 23 or 24. He wasn’t a walking muscle like some guys at the gym, but he wasn’t flabby and he pulled off the shaved head with a full beard look well. It fit his diesel mechanic persona. He married a cute blond and they have a couple kids. Now in his late 30s he goes to the gym regularly and is built like a brick, but he sold his diesel truck and now drives a minivan which I’m convinced is God’s way of keeping him humble. 🙂

      deti’s advice to do the best with what you have is good. This is all any man can do. I wouldn’t set age limits on the choices I make. I’d be busy building and enjoying life. If a relationship opportunity came from that, I’d explore it. My little brother initially met his wife at a concert, then bumped into her again at a bar. He was busy having fun with his buddies, not necessarily looking for a wife, and he ended up married by his late 20s.

      Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Deti, I’d say wait until at least 30 if you think you can get a younger wife. The problem is this isn’t socially acceptable. A 30+ year old wife will be heavily used, possibly with a kid.

      Women should be married when they’re young, preferably well under 25.

      Like

      • feeriker says:

        “Deti, I’d say wait until at least 30 if you think you can get a younger wife. The problem is this isn’t socially acceptable.”

        The biggest problem in the English-speaking western world is that there isn’t much wife material out there under the age of 25.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Feeriker,
        But if a man targets women past 25, the probability that her sex and dating history becomes a hinderance increases. So there is no easy answer, but since we as men tend to be able to accept reality and adapt to it, going younger has potential advantages of: fewer sex partners, less set in her ways, being more apt to adapt to her man. There are potential disadvantages too, such as not being marriage minded or enjoying the male attention that youth affords her, but between the two options the under 25 class will typically have easier flaws to overcome than the over 25 class. There is also the biological reality that if a man wants a larger family or wants to avoid the increasing risk of birth defects from higher risk pregnancy, which my wife’s OBGYN says starts it’s exponential increase around 34 years old, then younger is going to be the option with the higher probability of working out the way the man wants.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Just go for the younger one since either way they could go crazy on you and you have little control over that. Might as well enjoy the eye candy and sex with a young woman.

        Like

    • Oscar says:

      “If you’re a short guy or a bald guy, you MUST get a body. You MUST get fit. You CANNOT be a flabby, out of shape bald guy at 28. That’s not going to cut it.”

      I don’t remember who said this, but someone said that everyone has a struggle, but you should only have one struggle.

      That may be overstated. A guy who’s both short and bald can still be attractive to a lot of women, if he’s fit and successful. But he probably needs to be super fit, and/or super successful.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Oscar – In by brother’s case, he was not super fit, under average height and bald. He worked hard but didn’t make 6 figures. What he did have going for him was being a really fun guy to hang out with and the guy that people came to when they needed something mechanical fixed. Of his close high school friends that still get together any time they can, one played professional arena league football and another is a commercial airline pilot so it is not as if he was necessarily the alpha in his group. He will talk with anyone and is comfortable in own skin. Those, along with him accepting that short and bald are who he is, are enough.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “What he did have going for him was being a really fun guy to hang out with…”

        Good point. I often forget about charisma. Probably because I ain’t got none.

        “… and the guy that people came to when they needed something mechanical fixed. Of his close high school friends that still get together any time they can, one played professional arena league football and another is a commercial airline pilot, so it is not as if he was necessarily the alpha in his group.”

        But, he does have a group, which brings up another good point. Women are attracted to men that other men respect.

        Things That We Have Heard and Known: Cane’s First Law of Female Attraction (2017-03-28)

        As Cane said, respect is not a zero-sum-game. Respect shared among men multiplies, and compounds on itself.

        Things That We Have Heard and Known: To Hit Attraction Class 0 (2017-03-29)

        “He will talk with anyone and is comfortable in own skin. Those, along with him accepting that short and bald are who he is, are enough.”

        Put another way, rock what’cha got.

        Liked by 1 person

      • anonymous_ng says:

        @RPA

        “Oscar – In by brother’s case, he was not super fit, under average height and bald. He worked hard but didn’t make 6 figures. What he did have going for him was being a really fun guy to hang out with . . .”

        You just described my friend Oswald (RIP). He was fit. He was successful. But, it was his charisma that was responsible for his success in the dating realm.

        Like

    • Joe2 says:

      “Don’t even think about getting serious with a woman. Spend a lot of time not dating anyone. Work on getting into shape and getting fit. Work on my career. Save and invest money. Then around 30, maybe think about dating.”

      Waiting until around 30 to think about dating may sound like a good plan, but you’ll have missed out on any growth opportunities that may have been experienced in your relationships with women had you started dating younger. And, as others may have said, the pool of women available when you are 30+ is not very desirable because such women most likely have been on the carousel for a good number of years, or are divorced, or are single mothers. Not very good choices. As discussed in earlier posts, the “meet cute” phenomenon should occur by age 30. Lastmod gave it until 35 to no avail. At least in our culture that’s how it seems to work.

      I think you have to be a member of the “lucky sperm club” and have the right genetics, or you can be bald but be at the top of your game in your early to mid 20’s, such as in athletics. Otherwise the future is not bright.

      Like

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  12. locustsplease says:

    Since this was linked in the last post I will comment with a flaw. Being bald and shaving as a young man is not a bad. Women love a slick completely smooth head. I started balding at 16 and by 19 started shaving I hate the bowl look.

    When I used to club and bar hop at the trendiest places many women would ask if they could touch my head and talk about how much they love it. You really stand out in a group of men trying to show off hair cuts. I have never lost an interaction with a woman because of a clean shaved head. Having a nice part in your full head of hair turns women on like holding doors and texting them good night queen it’s a total farce. The most attractive Chad who came in the club I worked at had a clean shaved head so did my boss and women literally could not resist these guys.

    If your not gonna shave though u look like a 60yo man.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      An Army buddy of mine started going bald in his 20s, so he just shaved his head (he’s 5’10”). It never hurt him, because he was in great shape, and had tattoos everywhere, so he just looked like a badass. Of course, it helped that he actually is a badass. He once took two rounds to his chest plate, got knocked down, bounced right back up and kept fighting, like nothing happened.

      He ended up going to some special ops unit, I’m not sure which one. He’s retired now. Married with two kids. His wife is super athletic, like he is. They do local CrossFit competitions together.

      There’s no point in obsessing over a perceived flaw. We all have to maximize our strengths and minimize our weaknesses.

      Like

    • caterpillar345 says:

      100% agree. I’ve never understood why guys stress over losing their hair. I have plenty of thick hair for now but I figure if I ever start going bald, I’m going to shave it all off and never look back.

      Like

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