Carousel Widow in Decline – Part 5

A real time case study of a carousel rider.

Readership: All; Men;
Author’s Note: The contents of this series is a summary of journal entries from the dates specified.
Reader’s Note: The theme for the month of August is “Snickerdoodles – Case Studies of Female Failures”. This post is the last of 5 in a series. The beginning of this post picks up where Part 4 left off.
* Proper nouns have been changed to protect the author from the guilty.
Length: 2,500 words
Reading Time: 8 minutes

She Blows It (Wednesday, September 19, 2018)

Rhianna* showed up at our place, wanting to talk about everything that had happened while she was in Bigtown.* She said the Italian guy didn’t want to go out to do anything with her. He didn’t even want to go out to dinner with her. He only wanted to stay in the hotel and he “just wanted sex sex sex” with her, and he also asked her to go out to buy this and that for him.

I wasn’t surprised. She had been stoking his desire all week with all her sexting.

In too many words, Rhianna described how she felt the next morning. In short, she felt gratuitously humbled from the all-night-long Italian job. She expected him to hug her after sex, but he didn’t. Instead, he got up and prepared to go to work. Rhianna must’ve not been humbled enough though, because instead of saying something inviting like “I’m sooo in love with you! I need a hug before you go!”, she turned on the light and brusquely told him, “Why don’t you turn on the light? Come back to bed!” The guy responded in the same spirit, yelling something at her in Italian, so she was very very sad.

She tried calling him all throughout the day while he was at work, and she texted him a bazillion times. Finally, the guy called her and told her that she’s “crazy”, and that she needs to stop it. She texted my wife asking what to do, and she told her to leave him alone. I don’t know if she did or not.

After he got back from work, they had a tense, bitter exchange. Rhianna was sad and angry, hurling various accusations and insults at him, and he wasn’t taking any of it. Even so, they somehow had intercourse again during this time.

Early the next morning, at 3:00 am, the guy got up to work on his own things and Rhianna vehemently and repetitively complained that he was disturbing her sleep. In response, he took his things and went to his workplace very early. He told her he would not be returning to the hotel after work, and that she should be gone hereafter. Heartbroken, she packed her suitcase and returned home.

The Italian guy blocked her the next day. After Rhianna found out, she said she should have dated the American guy instead. We were glad that she finally realized this, but it’s probably too late to make any difference.

I thought this was sad and hilarious at the same time. I mean, she finally had one more chance to have a pleasant intercourse with a man she really wanted, and she blew it with her slavish mouth.

Then she trivialized the entire event, saying it was not serious nor was it important to her. She told my wife that this guy is such an @sshole, and that she doesn’t need a man like him. She also bragged that she can easily set up one or two dates A DAY, and she usually goes home with one or two of them every week. Her point was that she “doesn’t need a man.”

Heh… If she “doesn’t need a man”, then why does she need to date one every day and see more than 3 men every week? If they’re not needed, then why keep so many of them around? The denial is economical! What she really means is that she is addicted to being humbled/defiled by a man, but when it comes down to respect, submission, and doing what would be necessary to nurture a relationship and keep a man around, she would rather dismiss him and resume her elusive fantasies.

I was disgusted with the way she suddenly changed her mind several times and waffled about her purpose for going to meet the man. To briefly recount: After they reestablished contact, she was so excited to have sex with him she was hopping up and down and couldn’t think straight. Then the day before she left, she didn’t want to see him at all. Then when they were together, she wanted to be wined and dined – but without sex (or so she said). Then after she screwed everything up by being contentious, she flippantly dismissed the entire affair as insignificant and meaningless to her.

Astronomical Denial!

We told her, “You spend so much time and effort at the gym because you think your sleek thighs are going to make you less sad or change a man’s thoughts about you. Would you make as much effort to cultivate a spirit of kindness and grace within your heart? Would you work on being respectful? Would you change the way you view men to see what is inside their hearts and not just how they make you feel? Would you be willing to change jobs or give up your career to be with a man who was serious about you? Would you be willing to sacrifice all those things you love about yourself for him?”

She gave us the same fluffy response she gave us when we first met, saying she is already “so good”, and “at the top” of her career,“men can’t resist my body”, and that “every man” wants her. She said she “doesn’t need a man” who expects anything different from who she is, or what she wants to give, or who won’t tolerate her bullsħ!t. Her response indicated that she refuses to do anything to make herself valuable to any one man.

My wife responded by saying, “Well then, the next time you come back to talk about Don Juan or text me a lot of things just to complain to us about a guy, I’m going to remind you of what you just said. If you won’t change your mind, then I can only tell you what I told you so many times before. You need to think about what you are offering to a man that he would value so much that he would want to marry you. You have to prepare yourself for the possibility that the men you want might not find you good enough to marry!”

We told her lot of other good things but she didn’t take a word of our advice to change her habits, nor clean up her beliefs about men, nor adjust her behavior to win a man’s heart enough to keep her in a relationship.

Not more than 10 minutes later, she started into it again, this time complaining about a guy from Thailand (?!?).

“I thought an Asian man would treat me better. But Thai men are no different. Men are all alike. They just want sex sex sex!”

“I don’t know where they get these ideas.  I am a decent Christian woman.”

And she kept asking my wife, “Why do men only want my body?”

Her denial was on another level!  Astronomical denial!  This further confirmed my earlier conclusion that it would be useless to counsel her any further. She has already chosen her course in life. She needs to face up to the consequences and learn the error of her ways.

Moving Up (Sunday, September 23, 2018)

A few days after the Italian guy blocked Rhianna for the second time, the Canadian guy contacted Rhianna. Interestingly, the guy told her that he is sick and is in the hospital, and he needs somebody to take care of him. He asked her to go to Bigtown to help him.

After my wife saw this message, she was totally shocked because Rhianna mentioned she is a Sagittarius,* which supposedly means that she is superficial.**  So then why would she move to Bigtown to take care of a sick man?  If her motivation for doing this is only to play the part of a stuffy schoolmarm who gets an ego kick out of controlling a helpless man, then I feel sorry for the guy. OTOH, we had to wonder if she was experiencing some kind of inner change. Could this could be a genuine act of love and care?

So anyway, I was overjoyed that Rhianna finally took my advice and got herself an apartment in Bigtown. I gave her this advice because it seemed to work out the best for everyone. It would be easier for her to find a job there. It would get her out of our church. She wouldn’t continue to be a negative influence on my wife, and she would be able to pursue the pickawilly lifestyle she adores.

She’s been looking for a job since then.  We’re really itching to know why she was suddenly so interested in the Canadian guy, even though he’s ill, but we’ll live with the satisfaction of not being involved with her sordid affairs any longer.

I know the drama will never end!

* Zodiac signs and their associated personality traits are well known folklore in Chinese culture.
**Actually, it’s true. For example, her saying she hates to have sex with men who only want her body is superficial. This statement highlights superficial aspects of the interaction,
“men only want her body”, and it is also superficial posing to say so, because she doesn’t actually hate to have sex with those men.


As I mentioned in the first post, Rhianna came to us under the guise of a Christian woman seeking to find a husband. But after talking with her for a while, we realized that this was a lie. Instead, we found that she’s a carousel rider in the final heat who has passed the age of 40 but still hasn’t hit the wall. The way she’s fared quite well in achieving the feminist/Career Life Script has insulated her from the consequences of her life choices.

As our talks wore on, I realized that living out the Feminist Life Script en large is precisely her goal – a goal having the following motivations.

  • To live in a world of sexual fantasy.
  • To feel that she is the queen sex goddess of that world.
  • To attract sexual attention from many hawt men.
  • To get repetitive ego trips anytime she can attract the attention of a man, which confirms her sexual authority and her sex queen status.
  • To bask in the arrogant satisfaction of being desired and lusted after by many hawt men.
  • To entice men, one after the other, until they resort to a feral style of interaction.
  • To indulge herself in the luxury of having a constant choice of men, and picking through them at her fancy.
  • To be enthralled in the joys of being sexually humbled/defiled on a daily to weekly basis.

Overall, she’s looking to maintain a continual state of ambient sexual energy, but she can’t maintain the inherent intimacy (at least not with only one man for any length of time) for the following reasons.

  • She’s older, and well past her prime child-bearing years.
  • She is too emotionally immature, solipsistic, self-centered, and demanding.
  • She is clueless about the nature of men and doesn’t want to learn.
  • She refuses to show appreciation, kindness, nor respect to a man.
  • She has an arrogant, condescending attitude towards men. For example, she denigrates male sexual desire as being “dirty”.  In fact, her arrogance is in such an advanced state that it’s glorified.
  • She doesn’t know how to maintain personal boundaries in a way that nurtures and preserves the relationship.
  • She will only date men who are younger than she is, or who are exceedingly successful and wealthy.
  • She demands “respect”, which translated, means that she must be allowed to bask in the sunlight of her sex-goddess ego at all times and must never be bothered by any challenge to her personal integrity.
  • She is addicted to humility in the form of sexual defilement, and she has an allergic reaction to humility in other forms.

All of these characteristics invariably shoo away high quality, commitment minded men, but she seems to be unaware of this.

Rhianna has a few other issues that serve to enable and/or reinforce all of the above.

  • She’s more into fantasy than reality.
  • A severe lack of self-control, especially her sexual impulses.
  • She is double minded, quickly changing her line of reasoning.
  • She doesn’t know what she really wants, nor how to go about handling herself to attain a specific end (e.g. LTR/marriage).

In sum, she’s a train wreck that keeps on a chugging, wreaking havoc, and never comes to a standstill!

So, how can she believe that she is a “respectable Christian lady”?  It is apparent that her god is her own sex-goddess self, not Christ. She deserves to be awarded a Ph.D. or professorship in “Imaginary Ego Preservation whilst Navigating Cognitive Dissonance.” (A new major for gender studies?!?)

I was hoping that Scott might comment about her psychological condition, but he hasn’t responded. RedPillBoomer suggested that she is within the Cluster B Personality Disorders in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual-V (DSM-V): Narcissistic, Histrionic, and/or Borderline.

Concerning my wife, Rhianna did have a very negative influence on my wife at the time. But all the while, my wife was very annoyed with her for some reason, and this is what gave me the confidence that my wife would not be swept away into her spirit of debauchery. After we stopped “counseling” her, my wife seemed to be more aware of her own feelings about what Rhianna was doing, and I think it helped her move past whatever residual feelings she had about that. So to summarize, in the fray, it got worse, but in the end, I think it helped my wife mature.

On a more positive note, I used to think my wife had a pretty poor attitude about men in general, but after getting to know Rhianna, I feel rather thankful for my wife because I realized things could be much worse.

Another thing I learned from all of this is that it is pretty much a waste of time to try to help people like Rhianna. They have to hit bottom and be left with no other options before they are able to open their mind to view life a different way.

I’ve written a couple posts about this phenomenon.

Overall, this series reveals why we should exclude fornicators from fellowship and not have anything to do with them (1st Corinthians 5:9-11).  We should not even pray for them (Jeremiah 7:16; 11:141st John 5:16).

“Do not associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler — do not even eat with such a person.”

1st Corinthians 5:11 (NASB)


Meditations on our interactions with Rhianna eventually culminated in a number of posts.

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Attraction, Boundaries, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Female Power, Feminism, Holding Frame, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Models of Failure, Moral Agency, Overcoming Addictions, Personal Presentation, Polysexuality, Psychological Disorders, Respect, Running the Gauntlet, Sanctification & Defilement, Sexual Authority, SMV/MMV, Solipsism, Taiwan, The Hamster, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

38 Responses to Carousel Widow in Decline – Part 5

  1. Ah, you end up packing her off to another city. As the story is from three years ago, sounds like that did the trick. She must be biting someone else’s ear now (etc.)
    Some people are a bad influence and need to be kept at arm’s length. I might be one of them. Glad it had a happy ending for you.
    Hmm, a night with her would be like riding a Bengal tiger. Best not to think about it.


  2. cameron232 says:

    Here’s your diagnosis. She’s emotionally retarded. The girls in high school managed to figure this stuff out. She’s 41 years old.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. “Overall, this series reveals why we should exclude fornicators from fellowship and not have anything to do with them (1st Corinthians 5:9-11).”

    Excellent summary. That she considered a Christian at all – let alone a good one – is mind-boggling. There are many reasons the Bible teaches to exclude people like that. Perhaps the church didn’t know, but if they did, they should have immediately exercised church discipline and removed her.



    Liked by 2 people

  4. cameron232 says:

    One doesn’t even get a sense that she’s struggling with her sin. Slightly more sympathetic to a person who is ashamed of their sin and is at least trying even if they’re stumbling sometimes.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Agreed. I have plenty of sympathy for those fighting sin, but none for delusional freaks like this lady who thinks she’s virtuous.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hoyos says:

      See, this is why, I’m not trying to criticize because I don’t know all the details, step one needed to be about sin and repentance.

      I mean sometimes we can be too harsh, some people are trying to do the right thing, they’re oriented correctly, but they’re failing. They need real help about sin, even understanding what it is (which interestingly enough makes it more attractive).

      The minute she said she “didn’t think fornication was wrong” she was actually making a doctrinal statement. If it was “I know it’s wrong but I just can’t go too long without just breaking down and seeking it out, please help me know what to do” that’s a much different problem even though it may look the same on the outside. One is someone who is a doctrinal fornicator, the other is more like a Christian who is sometimes a fornicator.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. lastholdout says:

    ”On a more positive note, I used to think my wife had a pretty poor attitude about men in general, but after getting to know Rhianna, I feel rather thankful for my wife because I realized things could be much worse.”

    Jack, don’t take this the wrong way. Your comment struck me. A man could look at it that way about any issue he has with his wife. But, setting the standard as simply being above the lowest common denominator still leaves a lot of room for issues that should be addressed. (I am not saying that is your situation.) The standard is Scripture. Researching and studying the Word is what woke me up (RP’d me) to what was happening in my marriage seven years ago. That’s when I began asking questions. That’s when I began looking for resources (books and blogs) that exemplified scriptural principles and practices to help me understand what “good” looks like and to learn that I was not alone. It also opened my eyes to see that the majority of “Christian” material out there is bluepill BS. Thanks to the discussions here, my awareness of and thinking about the female condition has been advanced tremendously (often to my chagrin) so communities like SigmaFrame are also excellent resources for the discerning mind.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Femmy says:

    I’m reading the book, “Dopamine Nation” right now, and she sounds like a dopamine sex addict. It’s a huge high to get a man’s attention, let alone sex. Then when he leaves her, tells her she is crazy, and blocks her — those are very painful. Notice how she starts screeching for more sex, even though he leaves her, tells her she is crazy, goes to work early, and blocks her.

    She is “crazy” to him because of the huge pain she is feeling from the cycle.

    The Dopamine cycle is high low high low… there’s no evenness, no balance, no homeostasis of mood and peace. She is screeching from the anxiety or other fears that she is covering up by her deliberate blindness.

    After they dump her, she is constantly looking for another hit of Dopamine to cover up the pain and suffering. And because of the age we live in with Quick ease of access digitally, she can get plenty of Dopamine.

    She will only get worse. According to brain specialists.

    Spiritually, we know why…

    It’s sad, really.

    The solution from the book is to abstain from all sexual contact with men, all digital contact too, for 4 weeks.

    Do you think she would be able to do this?

    If not, she is an addict.

    Liked by 5 people

    • lastholdout says:

      To my understanding, this is consistent with B-types, especially BPD’s –hot/cold, painting black/white is typical. There is a whole ‘nother world of women who are B-types –and Rhianna seems to be there. I feel for any man who marries her. Although a woman’s predisposition is always rooted in rebellion and sinfulness, few manage it well (Elspeth, Liz, others), most are just plain solipsistic, and some are on a spectrum of “crazy.” If you want to know what the latter is, check this out: Being married to a woman like this and then realizing what you’re up against, is not unlike a scene in the movie, The Shining, when Wendy realizes what she is dealing with: . It is contention at a whole new level. A “crazy” woman will test the metal of any man.

      Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        Being the son of a borderline and married to a borderline, my response for the past 10 years has been a zero-tolerance policy.

        “Our previous methods of conflict resolution are over. You will no longer use these tactics on me. If you do them again, we’re done. Get a divorce lawyer because that’s where it will go. Any deployment of your prior tactics will be construed as a declaration of war.”

        “No more hot cold. No more silent treatment. No more name calling, no more sexual deprivation, no more ‘my walls are up’, no more ‘but this happened in my past and you have to pay for it’. No more yelling, throwing things, or hitting. Do any of these again, and we are done. Do any of these again, and you can explain it to police, lawyers, and judges. Do any of these again, and I will tell everyone we know about everything you’ve done during this marriage – including your parents, your children, your friends, your employer, and any and all pastors we have known during our entire marriage. Do any of these again, and I will rain down legal hellfire on you for as long as I possibly can.”

        Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Some aspects of that shrink4men link hit a little close to home.

        Liked by 2 people

      • lastholdout says:

        The modus operandi of BPD women is too consistent across the experiences of too many marriages that it can’t not be orchestrated by Satan himself.

        Liked by 2 people

  7. cameron232 says:

    There are chemicals (not hormones) that are literally drugs that are associated with the euphoria of a new sex partner and ones associated with the long term bonding of a committed partner. The former is phenylethylamine and is akin to a stimulant. The latter act more like narcotics. This woman is likely a stimulant addict. These phenomena aren’t LIKE drug addiction, they ARE drug addiction.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Ed Hurst says:

    What comes to mind for me is the need for knowing your own boundaries in terms of ministry. There are people out there you cannot reach and should not try to help. All you have is what the Lord put into your hands, and if that doesn’t help, there’s not much you can do except put them on the prayer list.

    Liked by 3 people

    • redpillboomer says:

      Agreed. “Got to know when to hold ’em, when to fold ’em” as the old Kenny Rogers song says. Some people are beyond help unless there is divine intervention of some sort; and I mean that God literally has to step in and do something that no other man (or woman) on earth could do.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. feeriker says:

    “Another thing I learned from all of this is that it is pretty much a waste of time to try to help people like Rhianna. They have to hit bottom and be left with no other options before they are able to open their mind to view life a different way.”

    Sometimes even hitting rock bottom doesn’t change them. They really have to be left at rock bottom for some time, to suffer the full, ugly, destructive effects of it before they even consider pulling themselves up out of it.

    I have no firm evidence of this, but I’m inclined to believe, based on anecdata, that people who hit rock bottom and pull themselves up out of it/see the light/look to God for answers and eventually redeem themselves, are people who were basically grounded and emotionally and psychologically stable before they “made a wrong turn” and went down the path of self-destruction. They still had enough of a moral compass left within them to do what they knew they needed to do to work themselves out of the trap they’d led themselves into. Our brother Lastmod (Jason) is, I believe, an example of this.

    Others, however, never had a moral compass to begin with, never had a real spirit of goodness or decency within themselves, were always something of a “bad seed” before they started treading the inevitable path toward their doom. Once in the Hell they were determined to lead themselves to, they lacked the soul for repentance and would prefer to stay trapped in Hell over humbling themselves and giving themselves a shot at redemption and heaven. Rhianna appears to be one of these people.

    Sometimes people like Rhianna do eventually see the light, repent, and get saved, but I’m convinced that they’re as rare as submissive wives.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      feeriker – Your comment reads an awful lot like the sowing of the seeds in Matthew 13. There are notable cases that would seem to fall outside of this parable, God calls who he calls when He calls and the Mickey Mantle conversion story is an example of this, but for the most part those that hear the gospel (not churchianity) and reject it seem to be on thin ice.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Hoyos says:

      Personal thought? I think we’ve learned “too much” from the addiction model as if nobody ever repented before Bill W. wrote the 12 steps. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying don’t use it if it’s helpful or that it’s taught us nothing but it’s not the whole story.

      “Rock bottom” is basically wherever you want it to be in a sense. I don’t mean you can choose it arbitrarily, I mean it’s a reflection of your general character and make up. The last psychiatrist actually captured a fascinating point of view on pornography and addiction.

      Step one, you want things to change but don’t want to change what you’re doing. This doesn’t work. Second, you want to change what you’re doing but don’t want to change who you are, this is mixed. Third and best, is becoming the “kind of guy who doesn’t even want x”. He described some fitness obsessed doctors he knew who were in tremendous shape not because they white knuckled their way past temptation because the “kind of guys” they were would “rather lick a salamanders eyeball than eat a Cheeto”.

      I think he accidentally discovered a bit of Christianity, being a new creature with a new heart (the seat of desire). Before you “wanted” fornication, now you’re the kind of man or woman who doesn’t even want it. Not that you want it but have decided not to do it, you don’t even want it at least not like you did. You still have the “old man” hanging around in your flesh to fight, but at your core you want the better thing and I think much of your practical progress needs to be directing your desire towards the higher thing, not white knuckled will power.

      Liked by 2 people

  10. Scott says:

    To be honest, this series has been like eyewash to me. I’m not very good at following along with written drama/soap opera level stuff. It’s hard to keep track of all the twists and turns, names, etc.

    Most of the time I disengage from people like this within about 8 seconds of meeting them. In therapy, I try to refer them to someone else immediately. I don’t have the mental energy for it.

    In general my clients get a very early dose of reality upfront. “Your life is a mess because of your stupid choices and your personality pathology doesn’t help” kind of thing.

    Liked by 5 people

    • cameron232 says:

      My reaction too. The only part that I was interested in was the effect on his wife. The other woman seemed like a standard issue aging slore.


      • Scott says:

        I’m also not interested in watching slow motion train wrecks, chewing on broken glass or low crawling naked over rusty razor blades

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        “The other woman [Rhianna] seemed like a standard issue aging slore.”

        I can’t help but wonder how “standard” she is. I mean, just exactly how many women lead lives like hers? I’ll guess it’s in between 10-20%, but the number of women who go through this “spell” at some point in their lives is probably closer to 40-50%.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      Scott, do you think Rhianna is in the cluster B personality disorders?

      I wrote a post about Borderline Personality Disorder a while back.
      Readers may like to read this and compare.


      • Scott says:

        It’s actually unethical to do Dx from collateral information. I hate it when licensed mental health professionals do it for politicians too (e.g. Trump is narcissistic, Biden is senile…)

        Regardless, she is a person who struggles with life. You cannot fix this, so it’s best to disengage.

        From a provider standpoint, these are the people who constitute the 5% of my caseload that take up 95% of my time and energy. They are lost and will not make changes until failing to do so becomes so costly that they cannot continue on the same trajectory.

        When I was going through my divorce in 2000, there were three sets of married couples (friends from church) who were my lifeline. They were around my age, and they had known both me and my wife quite well. We had spent several years prior to the divorce, going to church functions, sitting in pews together, eating at each others houses.

        For about 6 months, I was so depressed that I just rotated to each of their homes in the evenings. I did not want to go home at night to my empty house. I was scared I might kill myself, quite honestly. They nurtured me back to health. They were angels sent straight from God to take care of me in my darkest hour. Some nights I sensed that I was being clingy. Like the thing that wouldn’t leave. But the point is, eventually I picked myself up by bootstraps and got over it. I peeled myself up from the floor and made a new life.

        Many years later I asked (each set) about it. “Was I annoying? Did I wear out my welcome all those night wallowing in self-pity?”

        Each couple had basically the same response. “We were glad to be there. We love you. It was our honor to be there when you needed it.”

        That’s how its supposed to work.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Jack says:

        “It’s actually unethical to do Dx from collateral information.”

        Got it!


  11. Scott says:

    On a different note.

    Everybody’s all sharing their unsolicited opinions about we should or shouldn’t be doing in Afghanistan and the people who are actually from there are like, “Man that goat would be hot in heals and a skirt.”

    Liked by 4 people

    • Scott says:

      Also, for those who are worried about skynet — my “smart” phone can’t successfully navigate a sentence completion task that my 6 year old could get right.

      “Heals” LOL

      Liked by 1 person

  12. Jack says:

    On Topic:

    “The flesh cannot be expected to be other than weak, but the spirit must be willing. That is why it is so important to the devils that people identify with sin — embrace it as a central part of their identity — and why there has been such a push for moral inversion — for people to internalize the idea that evil is good and good, evil.”

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Body and soul are distinct but connected since we were never other than incarnate beings with an immortal soul. Practice of sin habituates identifying with sin as part of one’s identity. This is why Christianity has to be practiced not just embraced through emotional experience.


    • cameron232 says:

      This is where I see things differently from that group of Christian bloggers: Tychonievich, Charlton, et. al. It seems to me Christianity in practice for most people is a SERIES of decisions to follow Jesus into eternal life.


      • Jack says:

        Cameron, I’m not well informed about the doctrinal persuasions of Tychonievich, Charlton, et al., but I believe what you’re seeing here is the main difference between Arminianism and Calvinism. Arminians believe willful decisions take them closer or farther away from God, while Calvinists believe that it is God’s grace (or the lack thereof) that motivates such decisions. I’ve written about these differences before.

        Unconditional Atonement, Limited Election

        The gospel is relevant to all, not just guilty bad boys.

        I believe there is truth in, and Biblical support for, both perspectives, but it needs to be placed in the proper context of one’s understanding.

        That’s a wide frame, by the way.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Jack, Tychonievich and Charlton are, to me, very “free-thinking” Christians with a background in Mormonism (Tychonievich through birth I think, Charlton through acceptance of Mormon metaphysics). Well, everyone is “free-thinking” to a Catholic LoL!

        Both are very much worth reading.

        I relate much more easily to Arminians than Calvinists (the tendencies of both schools are present in Catholicism by the way). The Wesleyan-Holiness, which was my only exposure to Christianity as a child, is Arminian (Wesleyan not Reformed).


      • cameron232 says:

        Jack, Catholicism requires belief in God’s predestination (a de fide teaching of the Church). There a two schools of thought in terms of how this works out and neither is a de fide teaching (you can believe either). If you deny predestination, you are a heretic.

        Augustine/Aquinas: God sends sufficient grace for all but sends efficacious grace only to the elect. All can be saved but not all WILL be saved.

        Molinism (what’s described in John Paul II”s catechism): God, being in the eternal present, formulates his predestined plans, with man’s free-willed response to his grace accounted for.

        Kind of parallels Calvinism and Arminianism.

        Luther and I think Calvin, liked to quote Augustine and even Aquinas I think.


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