Handling an IOI requires a Miracle!

Is it possible for a high SMV Christian man to respond to an IOI in a Christ-like manner?

Readership: High SMV Christian men;

As far as I can tell from the comments, Wednesday’s post was a miss.  So I need to go over it again.

Σ Frame: Wimmin at the Well (2020 July 15)

Jason accurately commented,

“Well this post is written for high / higher SMP men… …and they are pretty much married, and do have options and choices.”

This is not a criticism (as Derek said).  This is assumed as a fact.  The targeted readership for that essay is high SMV Christian men.  It is obvious that single Christian men need to learn how to handle IOI’s efficaciously.  But in general, women are also attracted to men who are taken, due to pre-selection among other things, so married men also get a lot of IOI’s.  Thus, married Christian men also need to learn how to handle IOI’s too.  It is also assumed that the high SMV man is the prize, which means that he has options and choices, and he is not so desperate to shed his load.

The larger question addressed in that post is what a Christian man should do in response to a woman’s IOI’s.

Let’s break this down.  When responding to IOI’s, what are the choices that these high SMV men have?

The basic choices are…

  1. Ignore it.
  2. Acknowledge and escalate (presumably to coitus, according to her desire).
  3. Acknowledge and reframe the situation into something redemptive.

There are other choices (e.g. “acknowledge and s1ut shame her”), but I will dismiss these as being unconstructive to the following discussion.

Choice 1 is a miss.
Choice 2 is not a Christian response.
Choice 3 is the oft overlooked (if not absolutely esoteric) Christian response.

So what does Choice 3 look like?

Confused bearded man in eyeglasses shrugging his shoulders

Ed’s comment (which was cited in the last post) speaks to this question, but no one else has addressed this question.  In fact, this question has never before been entertained in the entire Manosphere, to my knowledge.

I am disappointed that, with 36 comments so far, no one has made any comment on the main idea of that post — how to deal with IOI’s in a Christ-like manner.  There has even been a lot of high-faluting talk arguing to the contrary, even to question the authority of Christ in the matter!

For example, Derek wrote (twice),

“As I read the book of John, I come to the unmistakable sense that absent the will of the Father, Jesus had no power at all, that is, there was nothing [no divine privilege] to avoid using.”

SMH…  My Bible says differently.  In John 10:30 Jesus says,

“I and My Father are One.”

While we ponder what that might mean, over in Matthew it says,

“And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.  Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” ~ Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)

“Making disciples” includes those women giving out IOI’s, like the woman at the well.

Someone could argue that Jesus wasn’t granted all power and authority until after His resurrection, but since we are living after His resurrection, it still applies to us.  In addition, we also now have the Holy Spirit available to us, which apparently was not available to Old Testament believers.

I take all this to mean that Jesus’ authority is the same as God’s authority.  Jesus’ will is the same as God’s will.

We had better believe that Jesus has all power and authority in heaven and earth, or else our faith is worthless!

close-up-shocked-man

The fundamental question we are getting at here is whether this power and authority is available to the current day believer in certain forms.  Ed suggested that it all depends on God’s purpose for your life.  It seems like Derek, AngloSaxon, et al. are saying that it’s not available.  As Derek said,

“Honeycomb, Sharkly, and Bee all liked this comment.  That’s four people who all agreed that the premise of your post is ridiculous because Jesus’ interactions with women do not translate to anyone else, due to his divinity.  I suspect some may find the notion that Jesus was worried about IOIs and dating to border on blasphemy, as evidenced by the vehement objection to Ed’s response.”

Imagine that!  Jesus was “worried” about IOI’s!  Project much?

Again, Derek writes,

“I mostly ignored your post because I thought it was ridiculous for a bunch of different reasons.”

So, even though he “ignored” the main post, he can still churn out 1,312 words in 10 comments to discuss the matter.  Should I really take that seriously?  The original post only had 759 words!  TL;DR?

Assuming that they are commenting on topic, “ridiculous” would mean that receiving, reading, and dealing with IOI’s as Jesus did would be miracles out of our reach.

Honestly, if I were a younger Christian man reading through those comments, it would be easy for me to see the overall consensus and conclude that it’s unrealistic to expect that a man could respond to IOI’s in a Christ-like way, as if that would be some kind of miracle.

<<<begin sarcasm>>> What a great excuse to choose option 2! <<<gleeful sarcasm>>>

<<<more sarcasm>>> Better yet, just choose option 1 and go MGTOW! <<<end sarcasm>>>

I’m not convinced about that, and Derek’s arguments haven’t changed that at all.

Furthermore, if most men think that reading and handling IOI’s in a Christian manner is a preposterous oxymoron — a “miracle”, then I can totally understand why some people think Christian men are total losers in the SMP.

fake smile

I want to challenge Christian men to believe that dealing with IOI’s can be redemptive if handled properly.  The livelihood of our churches and the sanctity of our Christian marriages depends on it!

But it seems like I’m writing to an empty audience.  The real miracle is for a Christian man to believe that he is indeed high SMV, and that he can get any IOI’s at all!

Note: When commenting, please stay on topic.

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About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Courtship and Marriage, Discernment, Wisdom, Holding Frame, IOI's, Models of Failure, Self-Concept, SMV/MMV, Stewardship, Vetting Women and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

16 Responses to Handling an IOI requires a Miracle!

  1. cobaltsheath says:

    Wondering why #1 is a “miss.” I would label it a miss only if the man in question is looking for a wife. Otherwise, there’s nothing he needs to do if a woman is showing interest. He doesn’t owe anything to her, not even a redemptive response, unless that’s within his general mission to do so.

    Like

    • Jack says:

      @ Cobaltsheath,
      As far as the man is concerned, you are correct. But #1 is a miss if he could have used that situation to introduce a different perspective on dating to her and discourage her from riding the next man on the carousel.
      A Christian man might be willing to do this for God, even if it’s not within his mission. If he doesn’t have the faith or the conviction to do that, then you are right again.

      Like

      • ramman3000 says:

        “But #1 is a miss if he could have used that situation to introduce a different perspective on dating to her and discourage her from riding the next man on the carousel.
        A Christian man might be willing to do this for God, even if it’s not within his mission.”

        I have two questions:

        1) How is this different from feminists who insist that men should mentor them?

        2) Shouldn’t this be the responsibility of her father, her grandfather, her uncle, her husband, or her pastor?

        Like

      • Jack says:

        In response to Derek’s questions:

        1) How is this different from feminists who insist that men should mentor them?

        This is an entirely different context. It doesn’t compare much at all.

        2) Shouldn’t this be the responsibility of her father, her grandfather, her uncle, her husband, or her pastor?

        Yes, the men in her family have the primary responsibility for teaching her well. But not all fathers, et al. will be up on this. Christian men have an opportunity to introduce or reinforce proper teaching when she’s at a moment of weakness or is looking to test their authority.

        Like

  2. AngloSaxon says:

    “But it seems like I’m writing to an empty audience. The real miracle is for a Christian man to believe that he is indeed high SMV, and that he can get any IOI’s at all!”

    Then miracles really do happen every day then Joker!

    Liked by 1 person

  3. ramman3000 says:

    “Note: When commenting, please stay on topic.”

    You bring up theological issues and then don’t want to discuss the theology? Your error in both posts is theological. No matter. While I prefer the informal back and forth of comboxes, I have my own blog to discuss these things formally and plenty of space to do so.

    “But in general, women are also attracted to men who are taken, due to pre-selection among other things, so married men also get a lot of IOI’s. “

    LOL. That would be a miracle.

    “1. Ignore it.”

    Since marrying, I have given zero signals to other women that I might in any way be interested in them.

    ” I can totally understand why some people think Christian men are total losers in the SMP.”

    Yes, that’s the idea. If they know me for even a very short length of time, they know I am taken and happily married. I wear a wedding ring. I have a lot of kids. I dress and look like a dad (and programmer). Any woman worth interacting with knows all this (unless she is really dumb) and will stay away. Any women who ignores these facts—zero to date—is looking to sin. Sin doesn’t deserve the time of day. Indeed, you should have added a fourth option “4. Flee!” (1 Thessalonians 5:22; 2 Timothy 2:22).

    Like

    • Jack says:

      @ Derek,
      That’s some great advice for married men – something like the Pence Rule. Fleeing is one of the other responses. Yet, I can think of some situations where fleeing is not possible (like with a coworker, unless you’re willing to quit your job), neither does it impact the woman’s life for the better.

      Like

    • Sharkly says:

      As a married man I have gotten a surprising amount of IOIs.

      When the solicitation is brazen, I find that the “acknowledge and slut-shame” is constructive. they don’t like it, they don’t generally always respond positively, although they sometimes apologize, but I think it is really good for sluts to be shamed. Everybody needs to shame sluts more, I’ve got a post in the works.

      I also often escalate away. I acknowledge their flirting by thanking them for their interest, while informing them they aren’t in my league. Sort of like in High School when you’d say, “You wish!” It keeps them interested and preserves the relationship. Plus It makes for entertaining follow-on banter while you remain aloof. “I’ll keep you in mind for dumpster-diving”. “You got any hot friends?” “You’d have to get me way drunk first?” “I once almost banged a chick slightly hotter than you, shit I was crazy that night!” “If you want, I can give you some pointers on how to increase your odds with other hot guys?”

      And sometimes I take the other approaches, it all depends on my mood and the situation. But typically the whores aren’t ready to repent if you talk about your faithfulness, they’ll usually just deny that they were serious. They’re more likely to “get saved” if they think it might still help them get in your pants. LOL

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Pingback: What to do if a woman hits on a married man - Derek L. Ramsey

  5. I would posit if you are living a life of mission, usually talking about your faith comes up naturally anyway. Whether it is with a woman with IOIs or not, you should by living out your faith in front of all people and talking about it when the opportunities present.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. whiteguy1 says:

    Jack, this doesn’t happen in a vacuum either, Most women I have observed would either deflect a Godly comment on her IOI’s or outright deny that she sent them your way.

    I would say more than half the time they don’t even know they are doing it, if we brothers in Christ pointed it out, there is a good chance they would flip the script and say we were being ‘creepy’ .

    I think Ed’s response, or if we can get Scott’s take would be the best.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      @ Whiteguy1,
      You’re right. This is a complex issue. This topic needs not just one or two, but several successful field reports to address all kinds of different contexts. Ed has offered one. Derek’s new post has some good advice suitable for married men. (See the pingback link above.) We need to hear from others.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. AngloSaxon says:

    Let’s break this down. When responding to IOI’s, what are the choices that these high SMV men have?

    The basic choices are…

    1) Ignore it.
    2) Acknowledge and escalate (presumably to coitus, according to her desire).
    3) Acknowledge and reframe the situation into something redemptive.

    If I was to try to change an IOI (which is an essentially an indication of sexual interest) into something redemptive… I expect the result would be catastrophic and comical. I don’t see how you can draw a line between Christ and the Samaritan woman to one of us when a girl checks us out.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Ed Hurst says:

    Responding to whiteguy1, my experience: Only a couple of times has any woman been blatant enough that I could refer to the offer itself verbally. Several times my convictions told me not to talk about it, but to respond in a way that made it clear I was unavailable. At the same time, I used something in the context to steer the conversation toward an emphasis on faith and obedience. Often it was with a leading question, as if I had been wondering about her thoughts on something. God has granted me a talent to verbally latch onto things in the situation and pulling them together into a meaningful statement of devotion to Christ. If you lack such a talent, I would suggest you memorize a couple of appropriate spiels.

    Like

  9. Scott says:

    O/T-

    I will be appearing on Adam Pigotts podcast. I don’t think he does them live, but look out for it.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Scott says:

    We talk about meet cutes, DS, Sigma, Rollo, Shawn Smith and whether or not an ethnic Serb can be an “American.”

    https://m.soundcloud.com/adam-piggott-692464830/pr149-the-state-of-the-manosphere-with-scott-klajic

    Liked by 2 people

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