Very few women can be Molded.

Limits to Wife Molding.

Readership: Men; Married Men; Single Men especially;
Theme: Feminine Submission
Author’s Note: This essay had some input from Jack.
Length: 1,300 words
Reading Time: 7 minutes

Introduction

In his post, “If she loves you, then she’ll be a pain in the @ss!” (PITA) (2022-2-23), Jack talked about discerning opportunities to mold a quirky young woman into a worthy wife.

“…the good thing about the PITA is that what you see is what you get. This is a benefit to marriage minded men, because the task cut out for moulding them into wives is clearly evident. There is no emotional baggage, and no shroud of vain pretenses that must be inveigled before getting down to the business of establishing moral feedback loops and trust.

Marriage and having children will also shape out the PITA; not because of any effort on her own part, but because husbands do the hard work of moulding their belovedly quirky PITA girls into wondrous wives.”

“[When wives are] just being their natural naughty selves… they trust their husbands enough to let their inner PITA come through. This is actually a good sign for the relationship, as this is an impressionable moment that wise husbands can use to teach and mould their wives.”

Jack closes with this.

“To have the best chances at marriage, a man has to do the hard work of hammering his own woman into shape. So choose one that is valuable raw material, one that is soft and malleable, and not already emotion/heart-hardened in the forge of sexperience.”

I question whether this is truly applicable on a broad basis.

Emerging from the cocoon of her father’s guidance…

Don’t Get Your Hopes Up

Roosh, the godfather of the Manosphere himself who turned to Christ in his later years, speaks against this in his most recent post. The very first of his 33 admonishments to men about the nature of women is this one…

  1. Assume that you will never change her

“It’s a fatal temptation for a man to look at a woman, especially a young one, as a tabula rasa, a blank slate for him to mold into his perfect, traditional wife who bakes cookies and croissants all day. Such a man sees all her flaws and thinks that, with time, he can eradicate them one by one as if using a laser beam. Or he sees her annoying personality traits and thinks that he can dampen them with a sort of punishment-reward stratagem. This is delusion. Who she is is who she is, and if she does change, it will be entirely dependent on her own will and its cooperation with God to serve the good. Any immediate change you do see in her, without much in the way of effort, should be viewed with suspicion.”

“Do not assume you will change her. Do not assume you can even get her to grow her hair an inch longer than it already is. Do not assume she will change at all. Of course a woman will do many things to please her man, such as to lose a few pounds or dress differently, and she may be motivated to improve for you in a way that she didn’t while single, but don’t expect immediate, permanent change.”

Roosh Valizadeh: 33 Things Christian Men Should Know About Women (2022-10-17)

Given the current state of the SMP in the West, I’d say this is sound advice.

However, we have seen some evidence of successful wife molding. Jack latched onto this around 2018 and has tried to figure out how this works. Since then he’s found that there are so many nuances and contextual issues at play that I can barely understand them all. Of note, there is one post that stands out to me; Teaching our daughters well is the early foundation of successful wife moulding (2020-2-14) makes the salient point that whether a woman is humble and teachable all depends on how well she was raised. True enough. But from the perspective of men already married, or even men seeking a wife, I think it’s better to say that it only happens by faith and by God’s grace.

Can she trust you with ALL of her heart, like she has with her Daddy?

Points to Ponder

Earlier this month, Jack wrote a few posts about how he was able to mold his wife to some extent. What I think he has failed to emphasize is the amount of time and work it took to do this. From our private discussions through email, I know it also required Jack’s older friends’ wives talking with Jill, giving her some guidance, and praying for her. And this happened in Taiwan — a patriarchal society!

Personally speaking, my wife has changed her behavior over the past 2.5 years. It’s taken some hard boundaries that have life altering thedeti-esque consequences, such as, “If you do / don’t do (fill in the blank behavior) we are through, no questions asked.” Other instances are me showing her what the bible says on a topic and setting the expectation that she comply, such as obedience. Contentious instances are few and far between compared to the past, only happening when her headstrong demeanor gets the best of her which is usually every other month. I don’t believe that my wife has influence from older friends, which leads me to believe that a husband alone can make his wife change, although it would not hurt to have older women’s guidance to help out.

RedPillBoomer said he had success in molding his wife, but he also notes that she was quite moldable to begin with.

That’s an important point. If your girlfriend/wife is not moldable to begin with, then you can forget about molding her into being moldable, as you are late to the game at that point. But if you’re able to start molding her early in the relationship when she is your girlfriend, then it’s much easier and less risky. I’d also posit that the longer she is away from her father’s guidance before you meet her, the harder the task of molding will be.

Oscar noted,

“There’s no Biblical requirement for a woman to submit to a man before they’re married, but if she’s rebellious before marriage, it’ll only get worse after marriage.”

There are actually two important points in Oscar’s statement, one I agree with and one that we need to examine further. Whole heartedly, I agree that “it’ll only get worse after marriage”, and I hope men wise up enough to avoid finding out how true this is for themselves. Secondly, while women are not required to submit to men in general, there are two men in particular who provide covering and to whom they are to be obedient. Prior to marriage the woman’s father holds this position and then obviously the husband takes over the work once she is his wife. We get an inkling of the father’s authority in Numbers 30 where he is able to disavow his daughter’s pledges when he first hears about them, just like a husband can. This is one of the reasons that watching how a daughter interacts with her father is a good indication of what she will be like as a wife.

Waiting to be molded…

Deep Strength also responded to Oscar’s statement with some good points in Pre-marriage headship and submission (2022-2-24).

“The key then, for both sides, is to make good “bids and responses” in terms of proper headship-submission and love-respect lines. The man should show leadership and see how she follows. The wife should be trying to follow and see if he exhibits good headship. The husband should love his wife and see if his wife respects him. The wife should respect her husband and see if it helps him love her more. Building up these good cycles and habits start to hedge against bad behavior from cropping up and going into more destructive behavior cycles.”

The glaring point that no one has stated is that men are not likely to transform an unteachable woman into one that is teachable, unless he’s got so much charisma and sexual authority over her that she is doing cartwheels in a mini-dress just to get his attention, which is probably less than 5% of all cases, and probably about 0.1% (one out of a thousand) of these cases are women that are actually above the man’s attraction threshold.

The vast majority of men are going to have to prod and test a woman to gauge her willingness to trust and submit. So it helps to be a good picker, as I discussed in A suitable ride with low mileage (2022-4-25).

Conclusions

In total, this only reinforces the magnanimous importance of identifying one’s pool of eligibles, enlarging that pool by working on yourself, reading IOIs, gauging for Heart Trust, and vetting before marriage.

Set your boundaries and expectations and then gently correct her behavior when she exceeds them. If she responds well to your guidance over an extended period of time (at least a year) you may have a good one. DeepStrength has written extensively about this so I won’t rehash the points here, but it suffices to say that if you are dating a PITA and she is obstinate in her PITAness when you gently push back on her behavior, then you are playing with fire.

Related

This entry was posted in Agency, Attraction, Charisma, Child Development, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Conserving Power, Courtship and Marriage, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Fundamental Frame, Game Theory, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Indicators of Interest, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Moral Agency, Perseverance, Purpose, Relationships, Sanctification & Defilement, Sexual Authority, Sphere of Influence, Stewardship, Strategy, Teaching, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

42 Responses to Very few women can be Molded.

  1. redpillboomer says:

    “RedPillBoomer said he had success in molding his wife, but he also notes that she was quite moldable to begin with.”

    Yes she was, particularly spiritually. To this day she still says she modeled her walk with God after mine, not mimicking it, but in “going after it.” So, I was fortunate in this area, as I’ve mentioned many times on here. In looking back the other two Christian women (churchian?) I was considering for marriage during the same time frame were not anywhere near as moldable. One, they were older than my PITA, 24 and 29 respectively versus 21; and two, they were far more worldly, especially with their body counts.

    The one caveat I’d add to this, and I’ve also written about this on here, is even though PITA, there may be an issue (red flag?) in the background. My girlfriend / future wife’s issue was with her mother. Not her fault, her mother was the problem without a doubt, a real piece of work. HOWEVER, I had to deal with the fallout for about the first 7-8 years of our marriage. It definitely slowed the molding down until she began to heal from her “mommy issues;” and, it also took a lot of work on her part. But again, she was willing to do the work; not all of them are that willing. Maybe willing to see the therapist and “talk it out,” but then actually doing the hard work besides just talking about it, the percentage goes way down.

    To me, the PITA concept lives as a bit of an abstraction nowadays. I can certainly picture what it looks like. The young woman with few, if any hangups, under her loving and WISE father’s guidance, grows up and then daddy gives her to her husband and off they go on “happily thereafter.” I came close to getting this PITA abstraction in real life, however one flaw in the “PITA equation” was enough to render it just that, an abstraction. The reality was, if not for the healing that took place in my wife (and her willingness to do the work required), I could have easily ended up after ten years or so where a lot of men end up, broken and hurting and wondering “What happened?”

    So PITA, wonderful, wonderful idea; however, in all reality, probably closer to the proverbial unicorn thing than a real life possibility.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jack says:

      “To me, the PITA concept lives as a bit of an abstraction nowadays.”

      Yeah, I read the writing on the wall when someone made reference to the original PITA post over at Jim’s Blog. The reactions were telling. No one appreciated my descriptions of the archetypical PITA girl and the smooth, suave seductress — two extreme dichotomies I chose to illustrate the differences. They laughed at both archetypes as unrealistic and failed to get any of the points I was making through this comparison. The thing I realized is that to get a PITA girl now in the West, you have to go young, like really young… too young actually. Jim’s crew had already considered this and argued against this as well.

      I guess I’m living in a dreamworld here in Taiwan where college aged PITA girls abound, and most of them have been taught to keep their PITA behaviors under wraps. I’m totally out of touch with the morbid debased bizarro world reality of life in the West anymore. I’m not complaining.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Jack,

        Thinking about the concept a little more, what I think you are trying to convey is that the PITA has behaviors that we would associate with being coy, except that with the PITA the behaviors are genuine.

        Like

      • protonmail.com says:

        From the Taipei Times, the divorce in Taiwan is about 33% (July 2022) and they have a female prime minister and divorces are initiated mostly by women there too. Women in Taiwan also have the right to vote and property rights very similar to the USA. Its hardly a patriarchal society. A divorce rate that high is not bragging rights…..well, considering the USA it is. Still too high

        I would assume the women there are slimmer and prettier in general, like most of east Asia.

        South Korea has become the West….so many single women with cats now…young and pretty as well (no man is good enough, and the not so odd thing here is…surprise surprise…most of South Korea is Protestant Christian, makes you think what is causing this…maybe Christianity is a part of the problem)

        I’ve been to Japan on business. No extended stays there. A week here and there from 1999-2001. Japanese women I noticed that “go” for “western men” usually are considered the “unattractive” by the Japanese culture in general and all the men I was working with IBM seemed to be sexless drones. A co-worker Hiroshi mentioned “With many women in Japan, you cant even get serious until you have a house” (think LA or NYC or SF housing costs are bad??? Try Tokyo)

        I found the Japanese to be impeccably clean, tidy. Friendly. A bit “clinical” like the Japanese “just are” to the West and the USA especially.

        IDK…….should all men now move to Taiwan and get a wife? 🙂

        Like

      • redpillboomer says:

        I do see some potential PITA’s in my church. They’re probably around 14-15, not 18-19. Not sure what happens to those girls as they get older; and I don’t mean that in some smart-alecky way, I just don’t know. I can’t track that age group very well because I don’t have a teenager, and it’s been 15+ years since my daughter was that age.

        It seems when they get around 17-18, they’ve been sexualized to some degree, not saying there slores yet, but you can see it in the way they dress, even to church. Everything’s tight, I mean the clothes: jeans, the tops, even the shoes are sexy shoes, not flats and that kind of foot ware. It’s not quite as bad as the secular girls, but definitely designed to show off their figures…and to who? The boys? Maybe. The men? Possibly. However, it just seems to be the culture, church or otherwise, to dress sexy and not just feminine.

        Out in the world, it’s a different story, or at least seems to be. The 14-15 year olds seem to not be so much as PITA, but more like budding 18-19 year olds…heck maybe even more like twenty somethings. Probably what they’ve been exposed to and how they’ve been raised. It’s been normalized across the female gender now in the West, dressing leaning towards being provocative rather than feminine.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        The birth rate in East Asia is under 1.5 children/woman; well under replacement rate. The vast majority of East Asians are Buddhists, Shintoists, etc….. but somehow the anti-family cultural malaise in East Asia is Christianity’s fault.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Lastmod says:

      Read the post. It says South Korea. Where the majority are Protestant Christians, yeah…interestingly marriage has dropped like a stone in the post modern era in South Korea…..and its a predom practicing Christian county.

      But as usual, you didn’t read, you assumed

      Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Actually, a simple Google query shows that S. Korea is predominantly irreligious, with some form of Christianity making up a little over a quarter of the population.

        Wiki citing (Quinn, Joseph Peter (2019). “South Korea”. In Demy, Timothy J.; Shaw, Jeffrey M. (eds.). Religion and Contemporary Politics: A Global Encyclopedia. ABC-CLIO. p. 365. ISBN 978-1-4408-3933-7. Retrieved 3 June 2020.)

        Shows that S. Korea is hardly predominantly Christian:

        No religion (56.1%)
        Protestantism (19.7%)
        Buddhism (15.5%)
        Catholicism (7.9%)
        Other (0.8%)

        Another quick Google query shows that S. Korea’s birth rate is at or very near the lowest in the world depending on the source. Regardless of the rank, it’s less than one child per woman at between 0.81 to 0.85 depending on which year’s data looked at. For comparison, the USA has a fertility rate of 1.6 to 1.7 depending on the source and our fertility rate will cause our population to decline.

        You may not like Oscar due to y’alls history, but when he wrote

        “The vast majority of East Asians are Buddhists, Shintoists, etc….. but somehow the anti-family cultural malaise in East Asia is Christianity’s fault.”

        about East Asia and lumped S. Korea into that he wasn’t necessarily wrong.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        Read the post. It says South Korea. Where the majority are Protestant Christians,

        But as usual, you didn’t read, you assumed ~ Jason

        Actually, a simple Google query shows that S. Korea is predominantly irreligious, with some form of Christianity making up a little over a quarter of the population. ~ RPA

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Well if you add catholics and protestants together, its higher than buddhist. Shito didn’t even make the list, nor did confucisiam or taoism for that matter. If you look the numbers of people in S Korea who do prfess a faith, its christian.

        So, as much as Osacr hates me and always has to “have one up on me” no matter what the issue, I am technically not wrong

        Like

      • Joe2 says:

        The birth rate in East Asia is under 1.5 children/woman; well under replacement rate.

        Using the group breakdown provided by RPA,

        No religion (56.1%)
        Protestantism (19.7%)
        Buddhism (15.5%)
        Catholicism (7.9%)
        Other (0.8%)

        It would be informative to see how the overall average birth rate (under 1.5 children/woman) is reflected in each group. In other words, is it the same for each group or are there substantial differences among the groups? We would then know where to direct the blame.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “So, as much as Osacr hates me and always has to “have one up on me” no matter what the issue…”

        “I am technically not wrong…”

        You’re wrong to blame Christianity. Birth rates are catastrophically low everywhere in East Asia, regardless of the dominant belief system in each nation, and Christianity is not the dominant belief system in Korea. Therefore, there is no correlation between professing Christianity and low birth rates.

        In fact, Africa is the only continent with birth rates above replacement level. That means that there are Buddhist countries, Shintoist countries, Hindu countries, Muslim countries, atheist countries, etc. with below-replacement-level birth rates, as well as some predominantly Christian ones.

        Whatever is causing people to stop having kids, you can’t logically blame Christianity for it, or any other religion for that matter.

        Like

    • Joe2 says:

      “Very few women can be Molded”

      Thanks for the eye candy photos with the captions,

      “Can she trust you with ALL of her heart, like she has with her Daddy?”

      “Waiting to be molded…”

      But let’s get real. The photos are of a world famous teen model and is one of the youngest models in the USA. Already has a net worth estimated at $1 million. Appeared in numerous publications and a music video which got 2.1 billion views. And she often participates in boxing competitions. She visits different places for photoshoots along with famous stars. She is a social media celebrity and internet sensation. And last, but not least she has a tattoo of a flower on her leg.

      Good luck to the guy who has her as a girlfriend.

      Like

      • Jack says:

        The model goes by the handle of Laneya Grace, in case anyone was wondering.

        “But let’s get real. […] She is a social media celebrity and internet sensation.”

        Yep, she’s 18 and is getting molded right at this moment.

        “Good luck to the guy who has her as a girlfriend.”

        Whoever the guy is, he’s skimming all the best fresh cream from her can. It’s the guys who’ll come later that will need the good luck.

        Like

  2. thedeti says:

    This points up something that often doesn’t get talked about much in the men’s sphere.

    At the end of the day, your Game, your charisma, and your efforts don’t matter unless the woman responds to them in some way. There needs to be a change in her. There needs to be a heart change from the inside out. Yes, you can help influence that, you can express your desires, preferences and expectations; but none of that matters without her willingness, from the inside out, to at least try to respond to your influence and to meet your expectations. In the final analysis it’s about whether she wants to stay with you or at least is willing to do what it takes to stay with you.

    When Mrs. deti and I had our blowup over 11 years ago, all I could do was state my expectations and put down boundaries. Things could easily have gone a different way. If she had been unable to meet them or, like most women, simply refused, I’d be just another divorce statistic. Just another failed marriage, just another divorce rape. To her credit, Mrs. deti read the writing on the wall and made the changes I needed and expected. But she didn’t have to do that, or could have been unable to do that. So at least part of the reason it worked was because she was willing to at least try. She was willing to do what I expected and willing to change, or at least try to change.

    If she’s not willing to change, to be molded, nothing else will matter, and you’ll need to cut your losses and move on, no matter what that looks like.

    Liked by 6 people

    • thedeti says:

      I can tell you pretty unequivocally that life would have gone in quite a different direction if I had put down these boundaries and stated expectations much earlier. Much of this has to do with maturity and perspective, both hers and mine. It also has a lot to do with sunk costs and the astronomical cost to me of divorcing.

      If I had stated these expectations and boundaries while Mrs. deti and I were dating, we almost certainly would not have married. One of us would have ended the relationship. If I had stated them before Mrs deti got pregnant with our first child I am sure we would have divorced. If I had stated them 5 or so years in but before year 15 which is when I did state them, we probably would have divorced.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. elspeth says:

    There is a lot of chatter here about how this nationality or that nationality of women is better worse, easier to mold, etc. It’s all rubbish. I’ve known women who got married at 18 (old women, women my age, and women my daughters’ ages), and they were just as rebellious as a woman who got married at 29. Oftentimes they were worse because I’ve known women who married late and were so relieved to marry that they treated their husbands quite well.

    The difference (as I explained to a younger-ish wife today and she was VERY appreciative), is that generally though not always, women deal in the immediate. By that I mean, “Baby needs to be nursed now. Diaper needs to be changed now. Laundry needs to be folded today. Dinner has to be cooked by 6”, etc. Most of the time we can plan for a couple of years out when our kids aren’t tugging at our skirts, and then maybe 10 years by the time the kids are teens, but at that point we’ve been married 20+ years, LOL.

    And men, again, generally though not always, tend to be long range thinkers. In our marriage, a big part of the “molding” process was that my husband let me in on the big picture, the hows and whys beyond what needed to be done right now. I caught his vision, so that when his needs bump against my immediate, I can -most of the time- shift and adapt.

    For example, we have a morning routine. My weekdays are pretty standard from 4:45 to 7:30 with very little deviation. Unlike my spontaneous husband, I take comfort in my routines, and I kind of hate messing it up because I’m stubborn and I hate feeling like I didn’t get something done.

    However, he has a big project this week, and a change needed to be handled, and he needed me to take off my happy homemaker hat and put on my personal assistant hat. AND I missed my morning workout. My initial internal response was to feel exasperated, but I realized that this was big picture important, and I needed to cheerfully pivot. So I did, and it worked out beautifully.

    But we have a shared vision, so clashes over minutiae are quite rare.

    Liked by 4 people

    • catacombresident says:

      Amen, Sister. You have a lot in common with my wife; this sounds like her. When we were dating, the one thing I knew I had to lock in was the teamwork image. Somehow at that young age, I knew my spontaneous nature would test her. If I could get that teamwork business established, I reckoned the unseen future would be more tolerable for both of us. It has been.

      Liked by 3 people

    • locustsplease says:

      Generally the later women marry the worse prospects they are. Feminism told us we should let women chase careers ride Chad until 30 then we should pick them up. That’s a terrible deal for the men involved. If these women were marriage minded they would have found a man in less than 30 years. Few women are learning anything a husband wants in this time frame. Older women may b grateful for someone to pay their bills after feminism failed them which they won’t admitt.

      And many women from other countries are exceptional compared to western women. Czech women look like models cook like Martha Stewart and have the softest nicest personalities I ever met. When your beer hits %25 they bring you a new one with out a word or glance because they listen to the sound of the beer mug on the wood and know when it’s low. They are that exceptional of servers.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Scott says:

    It’s so weird how at the beginning of a relationship she will practically turn herself inside out to become whatever it is you say you like.

    And at the end, if you ask her to bring you something from another room she’ll roll her eyes at you like you are the laziest ungrateful POS in the world asking her for such an off-putting request.

    It’s the “breaking rules” for you when she perceives you as “alpha” and then as you transform right in front of her (in her eyes) into a “beta” with “boyfriend behaviors” she starts piling the rules back on — thing.

    I wrote about it a few posts back.

    The “molding” is way easier at first. Then they resent it because they think all your cocky “alpha-ness” when you first met was a ruse and they were fooled by an imposter.

    When what really happened was you assumed she loved you “on the inside” and you could just relax and be yourself.

    It’s why having to constantly keep your “game” up just to have her behave like she always did sounds exhausting (and not worth it) to most men.

    Unless you figure out a way for your relationship to smoothly transition through this phase, serial monogamy is again the most rational answer for guys who can pull it off.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

      “Then they resent it because they think… they were fooled by an imposter.”

      This is the ticket, and is the common denominator in my past relationships as well. Women fall for an idea of a man just like we do, and when the reality they’ve built in their head doesn’t match reality, they completely lose it. None of it is our fault. This is where “men are trash” comes from: men failing to live up to ideals she holds that don’t exist.

      Liked by 2 people

      • redpillboomer says:

        “Women fall for an idea of a man just like we do, and when the reality they’ve built in their head doesn’t match reality, they completely lose it. None of it is our fault. This is where “men are trash” comes from: men failing to live up to ideals she holds that don’t exist.”

        This is a good point. I’ve noticed from some of the younger women I’ve know in recent years, late twenty somethings in particular, but several thirty somethings as well, they start a new romantic relationship, complete with Facebook lovey-dovey posts et al; then three to six months later, break it off. At first they seemed really into it, like “He’s the one, this is my future husband”; then poof, no more relationship, broken up.

        I kept thinking this was a bit weird particularly given their age; you know, the Wall and all that comes with it. However, I think you’ve hit on an insight here. They get with “Mr. This is It, the one I’m going to marry and end my singleness,” and then decide, “Nope, not him, heading back out to look around some more.” Then a few months later, they’ve got another dude and more FB posts, rinse and repeat.

        Btw, these guys, at least to me, all seem to look very similar to one another, not Chad certified, but a certain look and a way about them. I’ll coin a term here for them, Masculine Simps. They look the part, masculinity-wise, but also appear to be Simps to me, i.e. in her frame, not his. She’s running the relationship, he’s along for the ride (and the sex).

        Liked by 1 person

    • surfdumb says:

      I am one of the men who write about continuous game, such as having to learn biology of a woman’s period, with exactly correct daily looks, tone and frame to maintain my authority (or unity), to sound exhausting and not worth it. Given the standards posed on Sigma Frame I would conclude I had the gift of singleness. But something strikes me as wrong about the RP frame given here that is as wrong as I now see my church’s bluepill frame was when I got married. I don’t think either knows about who should stay single. The RP just gives a 10-inch book with a lot of truth to those who want marriage compared with the emotive woman worship that is the bluepill church entry into marriage.

      Like

      • surfdumb says:

        I forgot to add to the list of RP Christian marriage requirements for a good marriage, I need to heavy lift and be really good in at least one hobby. This is where Jason is more on the same page with you guys than I am. He has his DJing and 135 mile hikes to his skill set, whereas I don’t. Maybe it’s another biblical discernment, or guidepost for single Christians to determine whether they should get married — Can you deadlift twice your body weight and run a farm (like Derek, or have his 142 IQ)? If not, then you might have a gift of singleness. Do you still live in the state you were born, have an undergrad only, no athletic accomplishments (or is good aerobically but not muscular) and make less than $80,000 per year (with a STEM degree for 25 years at the same job), not a church leader (yet read the bible each year, pray, and engage and witness)? Then you might have the gift of singleness. You should be single, you don’t have the schtuff a man who is married has. God wants other guys to be married with submissive wives because they lift, game, and carry frame better than you.

        Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        surfdumb,

        I can simplify “the gift of singleness” a bit. If you have the emotional control to be able to resist fornicating, you have the option to take the route that Paul says is the better option than being married. It’s right there in 1 Cor 7 for everyone to read. It’s option 1A if you have the mental toughness to make it happen, which does not require any special physical gifts or academic aptitude.

        Also, stop focusing on what others have been blessed with from education, work, income, athleticism etc, and focus on your interests. Then be the best you can be at those and let the chips fall where they will.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Oscar says:

        surfdumb,

        There are plenty of men who don’t have the attributes you mentioned who are married.

        That being said, it sounds like your employer undervalues you. Have you considered looking for a different employer? Not necessarily for marriage purposes, but just because it sounds like your skills are worth a lot more than you’re getting paid.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        Surf.

        My singleness in the end was a forced hand on me. It was either move to the Ukraine where every woman is a ten and a devout Christian and just love older American men because they find middle age guys who are below average attractive??????????????????????????????????

        Or

        Kill myself.

        Which I did consider at one point, and have entertained in the distant past but that wouldn’t solve anything either. In fact, most people would have been happy if I had done so. I would have proved them right, and that wasnt going to happen.

        So…the final option, was to accept that I am a loser, and lost the “biological” race and also understand that there was just other things to do. Til my last breath, be it ten years, ten minutes or forty years:

        *I will do my job better than anyone else in my organization or title) (whatever it is)

        I will denounce the ruinous thing called “game” that actually set many men further behind than where they started. If I had had laughed at all these bo-tards in 1999-2002 and focused on career, actually ENJOYING the activities I like for what they are and getting clean off the drugs and drink a bit sooner…….I probably *could have met someone okay for my intellect, lack of looks and aptitude. No, I had to waste a decade doing again what people TOLD me to do. I was a fools fool. That is ten years or so I’ll never get back, it was almost as destructive mentally to me as drugs were socially to me. Really.

        I’m a good DJ for the style and medium I spin off of (soul / Motown / rare groove / acid jazz) on vinyl. I am there now for the MUSIC as I should have always been. I wasted time trying to impress people with drug intake and just because I had the title “DJ” on my name. I look back at some of the clippings from the SF Weekly, and The SF Examiner write ups from now over two decades ago. I was one of the “top ten up and coming SF DJ’s in 1998”

        Wasted time.

        Its for me and me alone now. The shows I have done here so far in LA do pay……but its not a career. Its a hobby.

        Anything I have done….someone has done more and better and probably worthy for female attention. That’s been proven time and again. Not just on these forums, but everywhere. Accepting loserdom has prevented suicide.

        As for you. I cant tell you what to think or do, or even believe. Just one thing. Don’t be me. I am supposed to be an example of “what not to be in this world” and its probably a worthy title at this point…

        As you were

        Like

    • Oscar says:

      “Unless you figure out a way for your relationship to smoothly transition through this phase…”

      I don’t think that transition depends on the man. It probably depends on the woman’s character.

      Liked by 2 people

  5. Scott says:

    The above description, by the way describes fully 2/3 of the LTR trajectories prior to the present almost 16 years with Mychael.

    6 out of 9 total went exactly like that with steamy crazed star struck lovers at the beginning and ending with me me dressing up in a monkey suit tap dancing to her music to try to get the spark back. Until they bailed.

    The other three I broke it off for really strange reasons I don’t even understand to this day.

    And to be precise, my definition of girlfriend/LTR is admittedly arbitrary but looks like this:

    Meet cute

    > 4 months long
    Monogamous
    Having sex

    I think it captures the basic idea.

    All of the others did not meet some part of that definition so I don’t really analyze them much.

    Like

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  7. Oscar says:

    Off topic: sexual attraction does not keep marriages together. Only virtue can do that.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34896047/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen-announce-divorce-13-years

    TAMPA, Fla. — Buccaneers quarterback Tom Brady announced Friday that he and wife Gisele Bundchen have finalized a divorce, ending 13 years of marriage and months of speculation about marital strife.

    On the other hand, maybe this is on topic 🤔…..

    Liked by 2 people

    • redpillboomer says:

      “…ending 13 years of marriage.”

      Yep. TB12 has all theDeti’s attraction traits to get the women salivating for him and CHASING HIM down for a relationship; yet it seems “Mr. Perfect Man” is just like the rest of us when it comes to keeping an LTR together. Of course, he’ll have them lined up around the block (make that ten blocks, twenty?) if he feels the urge to get another one, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he does. Save this post, you might be re-posting it ten years from now, when the next Mrs. TB12 files for divorce because she’s “unhappy.” Let’s see how blue pill TB12 is going forward with all of this.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        TB12 married a woman of low virtue, and now he’s paying the price for his foolishness, as are his children.

        Odds are that TB12 is a man of low virtue, which is why he failed to prioritize virtue when looking for a wife.

        Sexual attraction only brings people together. It doesn’t keep them together. We need to stop this foolishness.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Joe2 says:

        Sexual attraction only brings people together. It doesn’t keep them together. We need to stop this foolishness.

        Yes, sexual attraction brings people together, but who knows what else brings people together?

        Robert Kraft, 81 – the owner of the New England Patriots – just got married to Dr. Dana Blumberg, 47. Tom Brady attended the star studded reception without wife Gisele Bündchen.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        That’s ex wife Gisele Bündchen.

        Like

  8. feeriker says:

    TB12 married a woman of low virtue, and now he’s paying the price for his foolishness, as are his children.

    Odds are that TB12 is a man of low virtue, which is why he failed to prioritize virtue when looking for a wife.

    I’m tempted to broad-brush here and say that celebrities by default (exceptions and degrees, of course) are low-virtue people whose self-centeredness and egos prevent them from forming deep, lasting relationships with anyone else. I have no idea what the celebrity divorce rate in the USSA is, but it HAS to be much greater than the 51 percent average for the nation as a whole.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Scott says:

    …just like the rest of us when it comes to keeping an LTR together.

    Ding ding ding!!!

    High (enough) value men who want hot steamy romance, but also know through the school of hard knocks that it never lasts can always engage in serial monogamy.

    DiCaprio understands this instinctively and everyone craps on it for behaving rationally in that context.

    Like

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