The Red Pill 2.0 has degenerated into posing and marketing.
Readership: All
Theme: Problems with The Red Pill
Author’s Note: Originally written on 2020/8/12. Coauthored with Jack.
Length: 400 words
Reading Time: 2 minutes
Isn’t it a funny coincidence that Viagra is a blue pill?
I haven’t been following any Red Pill types on any forum for quite some time. But since joining Twitter / X, I’ve been rather perplexed about the state of The Red Pill 2.0.
Rather than embrace !ncels / MGTOW / men who have been abused by the system as part-time co-belligerents, the new RP movement is expressly against them.
This is no way to build a following, but it makes perfect sense from a monetary perspective — these guys are NOT the demographic that pays for Pick Up Artist tips.
Instead, their target audiences are…
- Guys who get off on fantasy lust.
- Young guys who think with their little head.
- Guys who are low in confidence but otherwise OK in looks and SES.
- Cringy naïve Blue Pill guys who still think there’s a formula for getting laid.
Basically, guys who view themselves in light of their ability to get laid; guys who think, “If I only had X (insert $$$, charisma / Game / Rizz, confidence, social skill, whatever, etc.), then I could bag a h0e and level up on my masculinity index.”
So now the Red Pill brand is “You gotta crush puss to be a man that owns his life. — Now pay me $$$ so you can watch a video of me interacting with a hot actress.”
More, they’re delivering a revarnished “Man Up!” rant, much like conservatards, but instead of the call to “save Western civilization / society”, the move is to sack up.
It’s like the “leaders” of RP thinking have all gone back to PUA shilling, and The Red Pill 2.0 has regressed 20 years back into PUA territory, but minus the actual Pick Up and plus the Scam (Artist).
If we peel off the “Red Pill” marketing gimmicks, all this Viagra-ish “Man Up!” slosh sounds incredibly Blue Pilled and fem-centric to me.
So now we’ve come full circle, selling Blue Pills disguised as Red Pills, and Red Pills used like Viagra to keep the simps’ motors humming and the $$$ pouring in.
Related
- Σ Frame: The Evolution of the Red Pill (2018/12/31)
- Σ Frame (Lexet): Wallowing in the Red Pill (2020/1/29)
- Σ Frame (Lexet): Red Pill Grifters (2021/4/7)
- Σ Frame: Red Pill Authenticity: The Spirit of Headship (2023/4/28)
- Σ Frame: Does the Purple Structure Exist? (2023/10/21)
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Lexet Blog
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Σ Frame 
To be honest, this month’s theme has been a massive disappointment. Every post has been an obvious variation on ‘the new red pill is different from the old one, and we don’t like it‘. I haven’t read a serious criticism of any Manosphere ideas, just 2024 broadcasts that America won the revolutionary war. Everyone knows that video media is more popular than blogs, that old blogs are being wiped from the internet or shut down, and no one expects Fresh and Fit to know anything about ‘philosophy’ (most serious people don’t expect them to know anything).
This isn’t an attack on this post in particular, Lexet. I’m just very unhappy with the direction the criticism has taken in general.
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AA,
We’ll get to this stuff later this month after the basics have been covered.
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Diagnosis and solution. We should Pray about it. God will guide us yet. And Jesus is still Head of the Church.
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The term “Beta Bucks” perfectly describes what is happening here: The idea that money buys you into anything: including a relationship. First the Beta gives his money to the Viagra boys to get him prepared, later he gives it to his girlfriend to fund her “dreams” of a white wedding.
It doesn’t work this way. A relationship is a shared enterprise.
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As the Bible says, the love of money is the root of all evil.
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Way back in the late 1960’s, the artist Andy Warhol predicted, “Everyone in the world will get a chance to be famous for 15 minutes.”
I believe we are experiencing that currently with the proliferation of YouTube videos, YouTube shorts, T!kT0k, Instagram, OnlyF@ns, Cam Girls, ad nauseam.
Red Pill 2.0 is just another attempt to capture “fame” through video and since such celebrity is fleeting it may eventually be replaced with Red Pill 3.0.
I think we need to be aware of the possibility that this situation may be the new norm for the foreseeable future.
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There are a handful of FB groups that push the old “man up” message guys like Driscoll ranted about. The problem with this take is not that it is wrong, men on the whole stopped acting like men decades ago, but that it is only half the equation, making “man up” effectively a lie by omission.
Of course the other half of the story is that women, around the time men stopped acting like men, started acting like unchecked women. It is perfectly acceptable to tell me to be better if the other half of the message is to tell women to stop acting like insufferable adolescents and be worthy of such a man that works to improve himself.
The “old” RP movement was against !ncel / MGTOW guys too. Did the PUA types of the old guard RP actually help these men, or were they more pleasant platitudes of encouragement followed by offers of personal coaching for a fee? Were there any real measurable results? Even blogs like Dalrock were much more effective at identifying and bemoaning the major issues than they were at implementing any real solutions.
Oscar’s advice to find communities of likeminded people and move there is the most actionable solution and even that comes with potential difficulties that make most men give up. Therein lies the mental approach, or lack thereof, that makes up most of the issue. Life is really hard. Nothing is promised to us in life. Only those willing to do what others are not willing to do have a chance at getting the results that others do not get.
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I was bound to get something right eventually.
Yes. And also, it beats the alternative.
That’s another drum I keep beating. No guarantees, just probability, so do what you can to improve your odds, but don’t expect anything to be foolproof.
Then there’s what C.S. Lewis said.
Everyone knows that the world is going to hell, yet they keep doing what everyone else is doing.
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Plus unlike the Godless. We can call on God via Prayer. He is God who gives Victory over seemingly impossible odds. Or we are to be Martyrs. Nonetheless God will be Glorified.
God defeated Death. Therefore there should be no ultimate Despair. Our life if we remain Loyal to Jesus Christ ends in Triumph even as we die. We shall rise Glorified in Him.
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Info, you always bring the good word. I appreciate that about you.
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@Oscar
Thank you sir. I read the stories of turn arounds due to Faith in Scripture. And God overcoming overwhelming odds. With the Caveat that is all according to God’s Glory to his Praise, Honor and according to his will
We can call in the Artillery via Prayer and Fasting if we are truly in distress. And I have heard stories of God coming through as a result in several people. God force multiplying actions like when Jonathan and his Armour bearer acted in Faith against the Philistines:
https://biblehub.com/bsb/1_samuel/14.htm
If this suffering is judgement and God won’t relent. So be it. But otherwise how can we believe that God cannot turn around humanly impossible situations?
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Very true, but we must also remember that part of the RP Awakening is the realization that men hold only part of the solution to today’s problems in intersexual relations, and that it is women, and ONLY women who can solve the remainder. This of course is contingent upon women’s willingness to change themselves in order to make such solutions possible. Anyone who has undergone a true RP Awakening knows that the odds of women collectively reversing their current course is essentially ZE-RO, barring a great catastrophe / reset that forces their hand. This is why many men are willing to do whatever is within their power to change things for the better (which for an individual man is very little), but are realistic enough to know that it is unlikely to have any impact on the status quo.
This is why so many legacy manosphere sources are big on problem descriptions and small on solution prescriptions. Even if they could describe an ideal solution, the fact is that realization of the solution requires women’s constructive input and cooperation, which simply is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.
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Yes. As I’ve written before, intersexual relationships is an unsolvable problem. There are no real, workable solutions, short of Oscar’s solution of joining communities of like minded people and then moving there. If you’re not willing to completely upend and uproot your life, change your career, leave your old career and literally everything behind, there’s no solution. And as Oscar admits, even then it’s not a solution — it’s a chance at a maybe possible solution. You’re risking everything on a chance. You’re taking a flyer on a random possibility. And even the woman from this “likeminded community” can just divorce r@pe you as well as any other woman.
So these solutions sound an awful lot like the Dailywire: “Yes, marriage is terrible, yes, the risks are awful, yes, the laws are skewed against you. Get married anyway, because it’s your duty to save Western Civ.”
I can’t recommend that men take their chances on marriage now.
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Really the best solution for today’s man is to just not defile himself with today’s women in the first place, and instead train himself in godliness and expect eternal life on the New Earth, where the relationship between man and woman will no longer have these hardships.
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The frame I operate from is that ‘Western Civ’ is not worth saving. As I’m able trace every rotten thing back to its roots in the 19th / 20th century, I’m ready to throw out the entire framework as a whole, because it failed in it’s core function: to reproduce itself.
“Get married, it’s your duty!” doesn’t change the fact, that every society that copies the failed Western template has birth rates converging towards zero and simply goes extinct.
This frame attracts like-minded women, who like to have an alternative number of children (> 0.5) at an alternative age (< 30), living under alternative household codes (patriarchy).
It has nothing to do with what progressives driving the speed limits promote as “conservative”, as these operate from within a Western frame based on all its defective presumptions.
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DBD
This is a fine sentiment if, and only if, it is followed by instructions to women to learn to be contented in whatever situation they find themselves in and that contentedness is a mindset not a circumstance. As such, it is the wife’s duty to deal with her greatest inherent weakness and teach herself to be content with her husband. This message would fix most of the divorces in western culture.
And now, thanks to decaying Western morality, the data exists to support the notion that women are the problem in marriage.
This is one data point showing lesbians divorcing at ~2.5x the rate of homosexual men.
Here is another article which gives the divorce rates for homosexual men (16%), heterosexual married couples (19%), and lesb!ans (34%).
It appears that there is something magical about the y chromosome that mitigates crazy.
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Here’s the big difference. Unlike everyone who sits around whining on the internet, I actually put my money where my mouth is, implemented my proposed solution, uprooted my life, moved my family halfway across the country, and joined a community of like-minded Christians.
Two years later, I’m happy with the results so far.
I’m not some grifter selling theories on the internet. I’m a dad of 10 who looked around and thought, “This isn’t working, I need to try something different for my children’s sakes.”
Once again:
I am happy to be that guy.
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Why take the risk on a state-sponsored marriage when there is 0 stigma for cohabitation (traditional marriage)?
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No one is saying that Oscar’s solution won’t work. There are people who pull it off. The criticism that that there are not enough good churches, communities, families and women to make it a viable plan for the vast majority of men. Guys who follow this advice are still going to be left out in huge numbers. The odds aren’t even close to 50/50. Yes, some men are going to thread that needle and have a success story. Truly, good for them. But most who try, won’t.
I’d compare it to telling young men to go West mining for gold. Fantastic advice 170 years ago, terrible advice in 2024. There’s still some people doing it successfully, but the numbers are very small and it’s simply not prudent to steer a young man in that direction. You could do almost anything else and get a better outcome.
We need solutions with better odds, and right now nobody has any. The best we got is to tell men to throw sh!t at the wall and see if it sticks. Is that a life strategy?
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You know what happens to a community when people join it? It grows. The community I’m a part of has grown to well over 3,000 now, because families keep moving here from all over the country. Like RPA said, communities are not a finite resource. They’re not a pie that each additional person gets a smaller piece of. The pie grows as more families join.
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When the odds look impossible. Pray and Fast. I know I am not quite practicing what I preach. But when the situation is dire and people sought God. It’s always Praying and Fasting. Focusing on this topic.
And reading the word.
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Yes, there actually is a solution, but it’s not a wordly one. There are even fewer people doing this correctly. One could argue we’re making an idol out of marriage and family. We all tell each other to seek Christ first, but how many are doing it? Where are our great examples today? Either way you turn it’s pretty bleak, and it’s not blackpilled to acknowledge that.
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indeed. Even as we seek God’s help. How willing are we to be instruments of his will and for God to work through us. As God has carried his people through the Ages. May he do it again.
What matters is whatever happens all this is for the sake of his Fame and Glory. As Jesus rose from the Dead. May Jesus overcome what ails his people. And bring Glory to his Name.
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BtM,
This quote reflects the mindset I was speaking of in a prior comment that prevents men from even trying.
There are plenty of good churches. There is no cap on church size so adding good men to them doesn’t exclude other good men from joining.
Ditto for communities. Adding good men to communities only makes good communities bigger. Again, good communities are not a fixed resource that some can access and others cannot.
Here’s the thing about women. They are herd animals and more of them than you think will see men with enough fortitude to pursue what they want and the good communities that these men are a part of and they will want to be part of that themselves (if you doubt me this is the impetus for mail order brides even if the incentives are wonky in that scenario). When they themselves get to those communities they will fall in line, because that is what women do in the face of social pressure. This will not be a majority of women, but more than you think. Plus the families in these communities are far more likely to have big families which means daughters that will want families of their own.
It may take a generation for equilibrium to set in, but it will and it will be men who looked at the probabilities and took the risk that will be the ones that win.
On purely selfish note, when I read Eeyore-like sentiments I realize that my sons will have a much better than average chance at a good wife, should they want to be married. Their RP lessons have already started and if most men give up that will increase demand for them. That’s before genetics are even considered.
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I’m not as blackpilled about the Zoomers and Gen-Alpha as some people are. We are entering the hard times phase and many of them will be in good shape in 20 years. We can give some hope for today’s youth: weather the storm, rebuild and you will be kings. However, there’s a whole generation that is going to suffer bigly in the meantime, and their lives matter too. We have no solutions or hope for them, and what solutions we could potentially have are not sold well and there’s few role models to look up to. My heart goes out to those people. Their suffering is going to be immense. We may be judged more by how we handle those people than how we handle today’s current crop of teenagers. I fear we will fail.
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BtM,
Good on you, but I don’t see Z or GenAlpha / iGen as rising to the occasion, nor do I see things getting better for them. It’s just going to suck more and more and harder and harder for people, especially men, as things go along. Things will keep sliding in this same general direction for at least another 50-75 years. At least. I suppose people could go the Oscar route which is as close to the Benedict Option as I’ve seen anyone go, but most cannot do that.
If by “good shape” you mean “married and having kids”, I don’t see that happening. I see increasing decoupling among sex, marriage, and parenthood. I especially see more and more single moms. I see men who sire children being little more than monthly checks to their children, if they are even that much. Most men will live years and decades in grinding sexlessness unless they resort to the OASIS, and most will.
The suckage is coming, good and hard. Best buckle up, because it’s going to get a lot worse from here on out.
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Also, most men are not sexually attractive enough; and most women lack sufficient character, to make relationships work or even to pair off.
I know that it’s not attraction but virtue that keeps people together. But there’s no point in kvetching about keeping people together when they cannot get, and are not getting, together in the first place.
Women have made it crystal clear they aren’t interested in any men but the very tippy top men. Women are the problem here. You could improve men to tip top shape, and the problem still wouldn’t be anywhere close to fixed.
Until women realize there’s a problem and the problem lies within themselves, this situation is never, ever going to be fixed. Even Oscar’s Benedict Option won’t fix it when even most “Christian” women act like this.
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@thedeti
Again as I said. If the odds look impossible God is the only way out. And Prayer and fasting is in order.
Do we actually believe that God listens to our Prayer and Fasting. But I have heard from other stories that God does respond. And the ascendency of the Red Pill in the past is God’s doing.
Do we truly believe God can turn this around or not? We can talk about all the secular practical solutions we want. But if it looks very unlikely and it’s out of our power. Then it’s in God’s hands.
Unless this predicted suffering is necessary.
Until God gives us opportunity to be his servants
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Replace “cannot” with “are unwilling to” and you have it right.
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Just be careful to avoid living in a state that is a “common law” state, such as Texas, Montana, Rhode Island and others. You could find yourself in a state recognized marriage even though there never was a traditional marriage. Thus, you may not avoid being divorce r@ped.
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But there is more fun to be had here:
Texas Law Help: Common Law Marriage (2022/9/13)
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We need to keep talking about the important idea that marriage does not have to involve the state.
I’ve found talking about what marriage actually is, the behaviors expected, the origin of it’s meaning and purpose, brings depth and clarity to the perverse idea that an “official” marriage is only a state contract.
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We need a quick refresher on what a Beta Bucks is and what it signifies.
Beta Bucks is not entirely about money. It’s about her securing his commitment and unfettered exclusive access to his money. It’s less about the amount of money or what it’s spent on than it is about her unfettered exclusive access to his money.
Each of those words is important.
Exclusive — He spends his money only on her; no one else has that access.
Unfettered — There are no restrictions on what she can do with his money.
Access — It’s just as much hers as it is his and she can get to it anytime she wants.
His money — It was totally his, but he must now offer all of it in exchange for sex with her.
Beta Bucks is also about commitment. The commitment part is very important to the woman — she’s finally getting the status she wants. Most of adult women’s status with other women is derived from the quality and caliber of man from whom she can secure commitment. It’s not just about the man; it’s also about the fact that she got a man to commit. She can now go to the Feminine Social Matrix and say, “See! SEE!!! I got a man to marry me! Now give me my STATUS!!”
And the “exchange” part is important — he is supposed to get something for all this commitment and access he’s giving her. He’s supposed to get a girlfriend or wife, and sex is supposed to be included in that. Many men are trained to trade money and commitment for sex. And all men “pay” for sex, one way or another.
The beta bucks man “pays” for sex with literally everything he has — his time, attention, labor, mental and emotional energy, and money. Collectively, those are his “resources”.
That’s “beta bucks”.
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I can already guess BtM’s response:
“See, now why are we men wasting time and effort talking about all this stuff? Just walk away if men aren’t going to get anything from the deal. Stop talking about what women are doing, and men just go their own way and not worry about all this.”
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I wasn’t going to say that, actually. You’ve done a very good job of summarizing “beta”. I have nothing to argue.
There’s really nothing inherently wrong with the arrangement. Both parties are getting their needs met. But neither side likes being taken advantage of, so it’s rational to take action and do something different when you feel like you are. I’m all for men taking the deal if it’s fair, but we all know it isn’t and won’t be for some time.
Besides, we’re supposed to be putting Christ first, not pussy. The latest hoe-math video put it very well.
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What is less frequently discussed, but what is no less important to the concept, is what kind of commitment Beta Bux Guy gets in return for his commitment to the woman. All too often the answer is “none whatsoever.”
We know that women are never held accountable for their behavior. WOMEN know that women are never held accountable for their behavior. This is why between 5 and 8 out of every 10 Beta Bux Guys get divorced gr@ped within a decade of marrying. There are absolutely no negatives for a woman to take the money (and everything else, if she can get away with it) and run. Thanks to the Manosphere’s work over the last decade, greater numbers of men than ever before are seeing this truth and are determined never to be “THAT guy.”
T-shirt meme: “Make ‘Beta Bux Guy’ Extinct”
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Yes. That was Marriage 1.0. In exchange for giving his wife unfettered exclusive access to all of his resources for life, he is supposed to get…
— a vagina for sex
— a clean womb for children
— a peaceful, tranquil home
Hell, most men would settle just for the sex.
But increasingly, as you said, in today’s society, men are told they get nothing and are to expect nothing from marriage. Men are completely and totally justified in saying “No. That deal is not acceptable to me. You changing the deal is not acceptable to me. Either I get what I want or I walk.”
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Quite a few things (cough Proverbs 31 cough) are missing from this list. Using RedPill rhetoric, this is essentially describing Christian marriage as it was following the rise of modernism, but before full manifestation of contemporary feminism, as it was described in this old but well-researched article:
Donal Graeme: What we mean by marriage (2014/6/14)
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Here’s what women need to do to fix this, if they want it fixed. I don’t think they do want it fixed, but if they do, here’s what they need to do.
1) Decide early on whether you want to be wives or career girls. Pick one, you cannot have both. If you try to have both, you’ll fail at both. If you want to be career girls, then go do your serial monogamy/pump and dumps, “work” your “jobs”, and be happy with them. Stop complaining, do your thing, and find contentment in it.
If you want to be wives, then learn how to be wives. Find out what marriageable men want in women, and give that to them. Learn domestic skills. Humble yourselves, submit yourselves to your husbands, do what they ask, and be happy with those things. Stop complaining, do your thing, and find contentment in it.
2) Stop complaining. Find ways to be happy, or at least content, with your lots in life. Incessant complaining is a sign of poor/underdeveloped character.
3) You all need character development. You need to learn tact, discretion, sexual continence, fidelity, chastity, modesty, demureness, humility, kindness, contentment, politeness, solitude, speaking quietly, conscientiousness, industriousness, and future time orientation. Learn how to plan for life further out than next weekend. What do you want your life to look like in a year, 5 years, 10 years? Give that some thought and planning.
Let’s just get this out of the way here. Part of said character development is that the bottom 90% of you need to accept that Chadrone is not going to commit to you. You’re not attractive enough or valuable enough. You need to accept this. You can have sex with 20 Chadrones, but the odds are about 90% against commitment. There aren’t enough Chadrones to go around.
If you present as though your most valuable parts are between your legs, don’t be surprised when you’re treated as such.
4) If you marry, it will probably be to your rough SMV/RMV counterpart. You will not get to marry Chadrone. You need to accept these two facts. If you cannot accept them, don’t marry. (this is part of “character development” under 3) up there.)
5) Take responsibility for the choices you make. Accept all the consequences, good and bad, of your choices. They are YOUR choices. YOU are responsible for them. No one else. Your life trajectory (i.e., consequences) is not the fault or responsibility of anyone other than yourself.
6) If you marry, realize that you take on obligations to that man. You owe him things. You are responsible and accountable to him. If you cannot or will not give that man what he wants and needs, divorce him or don’t marry him in the first place.
7) Stop making demands of men. Stop demanding things and behaviors from men. Men as a whole don’t owe you anything other than to refrain from committing torts or crimes against you. Men do not owe you a society. Men do not owe you chivalry, protection from bad men, or attention. They don’t owe you even politeness or common courtesy.
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Every one of these 7 things comes back to…
CHARACTER.
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Man, #1 is so crucial. I see it at my church, women in their late 20s and older who are passed over because — it would seem — they did not make finding a husband in their prime years their first priority.
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I like how you put the words “work” and “jobs” in quotation marks. 😀
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I have my reasons for that.
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Yeah, I can probably guess why, but may I ask just to verify?
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I think many — maybe most — jobs performed by women fall under the “bulls–t job” category.
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Well, speaking strictly in regards to modern times, you’re kind of right, though this really depends on many factors.
Like for example, my mother is a doctor (specifically a pediatrist), and her job has never conflicted with her primary role as wife and mother (she always had more than enough time to be with us, to cook, clean etc. etc.), on the contrary it helped my family immensely. When me or my sister or my dad got sick or injured, she would use her medical skills to help us heal as fast as possible without having to see another doctor. For these reasons, I consider my mother’s profession to definitely be beneficial to our family, not detrimental.
But the “career women” is none of this. She doesn’t care about being a wife and mother at all and instead builds her relationship with the System.
It’s very nice to have a wife who is skilled in an actually usable, practical area, whether she is a doctor like my mother, or even say a car mechanic who can fix her own car instead of nagging you to do it. 😀 This reminds me of this video that Jack posted on this site in one of his other articles, Women at their finest (2020/8/19).
But a 28-year-old academic woman with a business degree (or even worse with some monstrosity such as a “gender studies” degree)? Completely useless, both from the perspective of practical family life and from the perspective of eternity. The concept of the corporate work system as we know it today is no longer going to exist on the New Earth after Christ’s Second Coming in the first place, so why bother with chasing after such worldly crap?
I think you might enjoy reading this old article from Ballista74’s (now deleted) site Society of Phineas, which I think explains this in further detail using RP terminology. Since the site is now gone, I have to use the Wayback Machine to post the link to said article.
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Re: Women at their finest (2020/8/19)
The original video was taken down for some reason, and I replaced it with this one. In the original, the woman was dressed more attractively, and at the end, she invited her husband to come to the hut. The final scenes were of them fishing and hanging out there.
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Well, that answers my question. You have one sibling. That means your parents barely managed to replace themselves, and if either you or your sister never manage to have any children, well…. that’s demographic suicide. And the single most influential factor in demographic suicide is women working outside the home, which leaves less time for children. Thank you for providing two examples.
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How many children should a family have at least, in order for you to consider them “having replaced themselves”? If I’m not mistaken, the minimum fertility range (the least average amount of children a family should have on average in order for civilization to continue) is 2-3.
You keep speaking in ‘ifs’. If me or my sis never manage to have any children… How can you assume we won’t?
But I don’t want to argue with you, so I will just humbly ask, would you still agree with the following comment you wrote me in the article ‘Breaking Feminine Delusions’ (and that I will copy here in its entirety)? Because I don’t see a reason why this wouldn’t be an example of a legitimate solution.
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Why are you asking me what I “consider them ‘having replaced themselves'”?
This isn’t a matter of opinion. It’s a matter of biology and math. If two people have two children together, they’ve replaced themselves (assuming their children have children). If they have three or more children, then they’ve multiplied. This isn’t complicated.
Do you not understand what the word “if” means? It’s a conditional term. I’m not presuming anything. Why do you presume that I’m presuming something?
Then why are you arguing with me? What’s there to argue about? This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s biology and math. You’re not even arguing with me, you’re arguing with biology and math.
What did I just write? If they have three or more children, then they’ve multiplied. Again, how is this a matter of opinion, or agreement? It’s biology and math. And what does that have to do with your parents having only two children and barely replacing themselves if (there’s that conditional term again) both you and your sister manage to have children?
Again, none of this is a matter opinion. It’s biology and math. For a population to grow, each woman needs to have 3 children or more, because stuff happens in life. Some of those kids won’t grow to adulthood. Some will be infertile. Some will never marry. This isn’t opinion. It’s mathematical fact (statistical probability).
Children are time consuming and labor intensive. Consequently, women who work outside the home tend to have fewer children, just like your parents and your aunt and uncle did. Thus, when men and women prioritize working outside the home over raising children (as your family has), the population shrinks, and you end up with demographic suicide.
Again, why are you arguing with biology and math when you see the results in your own country, and even in your own family?
The future belongs to those who show up. If (there’s that conditional term again) you think your legacy is worth securing, then you have three or more children. If you don’t, then you don’t. I’m not telling you what anyone should or should not do. I’m just pointing out the obvious biological and mathematical facts that for some inexplicable reason you refuse to see.
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Well guess what, I actually agree with you on the vast majority of things that you said in this comment. I’m not unaware of those biological facts, nor do I dispute them in any way. Was there something in any of my previous comments that implied I do? If so, sorry for any misunderstanding.
The only thing in your comment that I cannot agree with is this claim that my family prioritized careerism over their children.
But even in this paragraph, I like how you said that the demographic suicide happens when men and women prioritize “working outside the home over raising children”. Because the modern-day corporate work system prevelant in the “globalized” western system is unnatural for both men and women.
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People’s actions reveal their priorities. Your mom became a doctor and had only two children. Your aunt became and engineer and had only two children. They prioritized career over raising children.
You can’t honestly or accurately blame “the ‘globalized’ western system” for demographic suicide for two obvious reasons.
Take my family as an example. I started my career in the Army, then the oil industry, then the aerospace industry, and now the power industry. Through all that, my wife and I managed to adopt five kids and have five biological kids. My wife stayed home to raise them. We prioritized children over career, and “the ‘globalized’ western system” had no say in the matter. We didn’t even ask anyone for permission.
You and you alone get to decide what you prioritize.
The future belongs to those who show up, and the people showing up are those same fundamentalists you keep criticizing.
That’s Lori Alexander’s family from a 2018 USA Today article. Maybe they know something you don’t.
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Oscar,
So having > 2 children is the minimum requirement for your standard, based on replacement.
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“Requirement” for what?
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The requirement for people to be multiplying.
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“Your mom became a doctor and had only two children. Your aunt became and engineer and had only two children. They prioritized career over raising children.”
If they both had four or even eight children, and at the same time still were a doctor (engineer), would you still say they prioritized “career” over raising children?
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That’s not what they did, so why deal in hypotheticals when you can deal in reality?
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@Jack
“So having > 2 children is the minimum requirement for your standard, based on replacement.”
I mean it’s not really “his” standard, it’s the minimum replacement range. A nation whose total fertility rate is under two children per family on average is simply doomed to die.
These principles are not lovely or romantic in any way, but they have to be followed in order to survive in Satan’s world.
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EDIT: total minimum fertility rate is under two children per family on average
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First, for replacement the minimum number is 2.1 offspring per biological woman.
Oscar,
This is the feminist narrative, 1950s tradcon edition.
However the primary factor for demographic suicide is male emasculation corresponding with a rampant testosterone drop. This drop is caused by industrialization itself causing the replacement of male-type occupations (like manual warfare, manual labor, hunting, exploring etc.) with female-type occupations (like operating all kinds of machinery, including military weapons).
This emasculation causes women to delay childbearing until men turn 35, where they at least barely resemble a man (see Rollo Tomassi’s SMV chart). This is related to abysmally low testosterone levels in 20 years old men, who previously reproduced but do not any longer. Combined with contraception and cultural mating rules, this means women delay childbearing until they are over 30 themselves and that means they are not having more than about 1 child until menopause.
This is the reason why Africa is the only continent with a growing population. It’s just not industrialized enough yet.
The only way to reverse emasculation is to reverse industrialization. And proposing that, will make you the enemy of all male feminists (“progressives” as well “traditional-conservatives”), because it makes all the emasculated men living off the bureaucracy jobless.
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DBD,
There are many other factors contributing to demographic su!c!de, female masculation, male emasculation, and reduced fertility. I have the opinion that abortion, birth control, and divorce play a more powerful role than industrialization. To form a convincing thesis (to me anyway), you would have to examine all these factors and show that (1) industrialization is the key lynchpin of all these factors, and offer a convincing argument that reversing industrialization will (2) directly reverse male emasculation and (3) reestablish a higher birth rate.
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He says — without a hint of self awareness — on a device made possible by industrialization, over a medium made possible by industrialization, to a guy with 10 kids.
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They know: If you want to be a SAHM, marry a fundamentalist pastor.
To make this work and reach replacement fertility, we need to reintroduce polygamy to have every woman marry the (same) fundamentalist pastor.
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My wife has been a stay at home mom for almost 20 years, we adopted five children, and have five biological children. As always….
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@Dead Bedroom Dating,
Some may not recognize it but, this nonsense is the result of the evolutionary psychology idea that our minds are suited and designed for life in caves. I call it the argument against innovation. Proponents claim we can never do anything new without grave consequences. The cave, and only the cave, is where we belong. Meanwhile, sensible people disprove the argument everyday by living fulfilling lives.
Discover the influences of evolutionary psychology in your thinking and eradicate them.
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The so-called “evolutionary psychology” is really just the influence of Satan’s Powers on the human mind and carnal instincts.
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In the Sami population of the 17th to 19th century, men were most successful at reproduction with a spouse 15 years younger than them. This is a male sexual strategy.
In the West, women try to reproduce with men 5 years younger to 3 years older than them, but usually not until these men turn 35 (peak SMV). This is a female sexual strategy.
Women don’t care about their “prime years”, “the wall” or any “career”. When given the choice they simply won’t reproduce with low-SMV men younger than 30, even when being in relationships with them for years. Combined with their preferred age window, this means they won’t be younger than 32 before their first try on pregnancy if not older. The results are reproduction rates below 1.
The only women able to escape this are women choosing much older mates. These still don’t settle for low-SMV men, but their strategy will outperform the other women leading to the Sami results. Evolution wins in the end.
As we are talking evolutionary psychology, all this “what needs to be fixed” stuff doesn’t matter at all. Women making more successful (aka more offspring) mate choices will simply displace other women failing at reproduction.
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Women really don’t care about their “prime years”, “the wall” or any “career” at all. They just generally do whatever the “most powerful” authority in society tells them to, and today, that authority is the System and its Talking Image.
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When men have to threaten their wives with divorce to stop the sh!tty treatment, that really speaks volumes.
When men have to apply social pressure to get women to stop sh!tty treatment and bad behavior, that really speaks volumes.
When men have to say to women, “Fall in line or live alone in the cold without our protection and you’ll have to rely on what you can get from the OASIS or the goodwill of men who really don’t care all that much about you”, that really speaks volumes.
This really tells us something about women’s character. “Sugar, spice and everything nice”? I think not.
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Well, ideally, men shouldn’t have to threaten their wives to stop sh!tty treatment ans bad behavior in the first place. The Proverbs 31 woman’s husband can trust her with all his heart, but today’s female population can be anything but trusted. If a man today makes the naive mistake of trusting a woman, he is guaranteed to become a controllable robot who must unconditionally adhere to all her demands.
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Even the Proverbs themselves speak of how rare a “Proverbs 31 wife” is.
Gosh, it’s almost as if God was using varied and creative means to punish men for the Fall (i.e., create burning within men, but make suitable wives rare as men’s teeth).
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The overwhelming majority of such women won’t be Western Christian women.
I find it highly amusing whenever cuckservative pundits wring their hands and whine about immivaders outbreeding Heritage Americans. They know full damned well that there’s only one practical solution to that problem, but such a solution means actually practicing what they preach. It means Heritage American women abandoning all aspects of feminism — which they not only won’t ever do, but which cuckservative punditry would never tolerate them doing.
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Biology doesn’t care.
They demonstrate that it takes a whole church(‘s tithe) to feed one SAHM and her children. This is because the Western model of economical “success” is living on someone else’s paycheck.
In the big picture, it doesn’t matter at all what women are doing. The assumption that this matters is the typical Western gynocentric perspective.
Men leaving the plantation is what changes the game. It did it for the Roman Empire. Exactly that is already happening and it is irreversible. As a result, TPTB won’t be TPTB in the future, regardless of how hard they persecute the prophets.
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