Female moral agency is solipsistic, vain, and easily misdirected or stymied.
Targeted Readership: Men
Theme: Female Agency and Accountability
Author’s Note: This post pieces together several excerpts from emails with Deep Strength and his posts at Christianity and Masculinity.
Length: 1,150 words
Reading Time: 6 minutes
Do women have moral agency?
It is tempting for Western Christian men to treat women like they either have moral agency or they don’t, but it is not such a cut and dried binary dichotomy.
Clearly women have moral agency. Deti seems to have summarized a lot of it with the garden. God punishes both Adam and Eve separately.
However, going off of Genesis 3, Numbers 30, and 1 Timothy 2:8-15, God created women differently so they tend to be more prone to deception. Hence, God has given men authority in marriage and the Church to act as a covering/protection for them. Yet it’s hard with the culture now to say that we need to protect women in some cases, because much of the time with churchian / secular men it turns into White Knighting, and many would argue that women are (or should be) under the authority of their father until they are married (or at least treated as such).
Misled by Culture and Churchianity
“All women have full moral agency. They are responsible for their decisions as much as men are responsible for theirs. However, culture and churchianity tends to infantilize women’s decision making placing the consequence of poor decisions that women make onto men as men’s burden of leadership and responsibility.”Christianity and Masculinity: Formalization of AWALT and NAWALT (2015/3/22)
False Humility Misdirects Women’s Agency
“A true godly woman (with great character, humility, etc.) will respect and submit. Albeit, sometimes needs some prompting and sometimes slips up but will get back on track.
However, what tends to occur in reality is that women can easily let FALSE HUMILITY and PRIDE get in the way of actual HUMILITY. They think they are better than the man/husband because they are reading the Bible more, praying more, going to Church more, or more of whatever “spiritual” things. […] Thus, they fall into a place of disrespect, contentiousness, and rebellion, but think they are actually doing the right thing. Very insidious.”
“…a woman who believes they are more godly than the man usually falls into the trap of pride and false humility. She would actually disobey the Bible’s teachings such as 1 Peter 3 and usually starts tearing down her own relationship and marriage thinking she is better than him.”
“…a woman who is actually trying to obey God and spending a lot of time in spiritual disciplines would also probably more easily submit to and respect a man who has put a lot of time into obeying God and his own walk with Christ including the spiritual disciplines as well.”
“Another one of the big areas of false humility with wives who actually want to obey their husbands is they read so many “Christian books” about how they’re supposed to do certain things to submit to their husband when in reality they should be asking their husband about how they want to submit. Then when they do these various “things” trying to make their husband happy and he is not she gets all mad that she is trying and not succeeding. This anger is not a righteous one because she is actually following the books, blogs, podcasts, and whatever advice instead of following her husband’s lead. In other words, she is getting angry over her submitting to the books, blogs, podcasts, and other advice instead of her own husband.
In this way, a wife gets off track from actual submission to her husband and into obeying everyone else but her husband. However, since these “everyone else” sources are supposedly godly, she is duped into believing she is doing the right thing. Hence, the false humility because she thinks she is doing the right thing but she is not.”Christianity and Masculinity: Is it possible for a woman to be too godly? (2022/6/16)
Women Strongly prefer Mystical Consciousness as a Medium of Interrelational Exchange
It’s difficult for men to ask women directly for what they want and get a positive response from her, because then women feel obligated to perform, and this kills their desire.
“Overt contracts are a form of obligation and obligation generally destroys desire. Obligation should not destroy the desire dynamic, but it does because humans are often prone to give into their fallible human desires. This is why women want men to “just get it”…”Christianity and Masculinity: Covert Contracts, Overt Contracts, and Women (2015/8/18)
Likewise, women will hardly ever directly tell men exactly what they want or expect, and this could be for a multitude of reasons, some good and some bad depending on the context.
- They want to be passively led.
- They want to preserve solipsistic beliefs and the envisages of fantasy / mythos.
- They are more comfortable to avoid exercising agency and taking responsibility.
- They wish to preserve the option of covert vanity rebellion (discussed in the next section).
- They want the relationship to be based on faith and trust (or else the vicarious proxies of Feeelz and Tingles), rather than a negotiation.
- They prefer the freedom of remaining ambiguous. Revealing too much tends to grant more power to men. This is partly why women love secrecy.
Left to their own devices, women’s indefatigable attraction to fantasy, mysticism, and mythos will lead them into all sorts of gnosticism such as astrology, feminism, liberal “Christianity”, new age stuff, social justice activism, trendy media and philosophies, witchcraft, and whatever else.
Submission is necessary but insufficient for exercising agency. Submission by itself does NOT necessarily indicate moral agency!
Shades of Rebellion (2015/12/29) describes the irony of covert rebellion as seen in the difference between these two statements.
- Submission: “I follow my husband’s lead.”
- Covert rebellion: “I let my husband lead.”
“That’s ultimately what it comes down to: women want to let their husband lead instead of following his lead. […] Covert rebellion which is “I let my husband lead” is probably the main sin nature of women because it’s under the guise of righteousness (e.g. the husband is leading) but it gives her all of the power (e.g. authority) in the relationship.
This is the true essence of virtue signaling. Grabbing power while maintaining the moral high ground. It’s not enough to grab power. It must be done with the moral high ground.
In other words, a woman must look good while rebelling or sinning. As Looking Glass likes to call it: Vanity. Vanity rebellion. Women’s sin nature in marriage is Vanity Rebellion.
Now that the veil has been pulled back on this pattern, you will see it everywhere. When women divorce, it must be her husband’s fault. When bad things happen in a marriage, the full responsibility is foisted on the husband. Any bad feelings are used as indicators that a husband is not leading in a godly manner.”Christianity and Masculinity: Women’s sin nature in marriage and contentment (2016/6/24)
Deep Strength wrote a follow up to this post.
- Christianity and Masculinity: Womens’ moral agency and the interplay between mercy and judgement (2022/11/10)
- Christianity and Masculinity: Female hypoagency is ubiquitous (2021/9/7)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Do women possess moral agency? (2022/11/2)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Donal Graeme on Female Agency (2022/11/3)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Rollo Tomassi on Female Agency (2022/11/4)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Dalrock on Female Agency (2022/11/7)
- Σ Frame (Thedeti, Jack): Deti on Female Agency (2022/11/8)
- Σ Frame (Sharkly, Jack): Sharkly on Women’s Agency (2022/11/10)
- Σ Frame (Catacomb Resident, Jack): Catacomb Resident on Moral Agency (2022/11/11)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Artisanal Toad on Women’s Agency (2022/11/14)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Jack on Female Agency (2022/11/23)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Kyojiro Kagenuma on Women’s Agency (2022/12/5)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Zippy Catholic’s View of Female Hypoagency (2022/12/12)
- Σ Frame (Jack): Bruce Charlton on Agency (2022/12/13)
- Σ Frame (Red Pill Apostle): Red Pill Apostle on Women’s Moral Agency (2022/12/15)
- Σ Frame (Jack): D. Bradley on Women’s Moral Agency (2022/12/16)