Name it to Change it!

Identifying a transgression poses an implied demand for her to change it.

Readership: All; Men; Married Men;
Theme: Feminine Submission
Author’s Note: This post was inspired by an email exchange with Red Pill Apostle.
Length: 2,800 words
Reading Time: 15 minutes

Introduction

In its simplest form, setting boundaries entails being honest in evaluating the terms of a relationship. This honesty would require one to know one’s self and one’s Christian identity well — including one’s desires, wants, needs, values, and whether or not certain things are deal-breakers. Boundaries are enforced when deal-breakers are identified and appropriate measures are taken. This honesty allows both parties to assess the nature, strength, and value of the relationship (actual or potential), and to keep the relationship running in good order, no matter how close or distant the relationship it might be.

Depending on other contextual factors, setting boundaries can take the form of a demand or a negotiation, depending on how important the issue is. In this post, we’ll review how demands can be made in different ways, and how these can contribute towards enforcing boundaries and correcting bad behaviors.

Types of Demands

Making demands is a topic that we’ve discussed at length in many previous posts.

Since I started learning about this dynamic, I’ve come to see that a husband can make demands in a number of ways, some verbal, and others nonverbal. Here’s a summary. I’ve introduced descriptive names for each kind of demand to foster an efficient discussion.

Making Demands:  In general, making demands is essentially when a man takes a directive leadership role that enforces or invites her submission and works towards establishing a Headship structure.

Direct Demands: The man directly asks the woman to change her behavior, or to do things differently. For example, “Would you wear your black dress instead of the red one?”

Implied Demands: Pointing out her failures, sins, and transgressions carries an implied demand for her to change her ways, or confess and repent. Women who don’t believe they have the responsibility or the agency to change will resort to labeling this as “judgment”: “Don’t judge me!”

Intuitive Demands: When the man states his plans or expectations (i.e. for the marriage), then he is inviting her to step into his frame and cooperate with his plans. To do this effectively, the man needs to first make these plans/expectations crystal clear. Some examples include these lists of expectations from Derek, Jack, and Red Pill Apostle.

Circumstantial Demands: The man changes his schedule or behavior (e.g. the man gets into shape, or adopts a new habit), then she is forced to respond somehow.

Contextual Demands: The man is engaged in an activity in which his intentions are expressed through the context. It is up to the other to respond by cooperating with him or supporting him in the activity. For example, if you throw a ball at her, then it is naturally expected that she will catch it. Depending on the context, this may devolve into a delineation of his and her responsibilities. For example, if someone leaves a dirty cup in the sink, who will be expected to wash it?

Teaching: By its very nature, teaching imposes a fundamental demand for improvement. A man should make a regular habit of giving his wife (and daughters) Moral Guidance Based Feedback. When men take the effort to make their wives aware of how her false notions and unrealistic expectations (i.e. her Covert Contracts) obviates her exercise of agency and reduces her to the moral equivalent of a child, then a multitude of blessings will become manifest.

Name it to Change it!

There exists an interesting metaphysical phenomenon; in that when any certain behavior is called out, it acts as an ipso facto forced confession and an implied demand to change that behavior. In biblical language, this is described as “shining the light of truth into the darkness” (Matthew 5:13-16; John 1:4-5; 2 Corinthians 4:2-4; 1 John 2:9-11). This works not only with wives in marriage, but also for anyone in any kind of context.

I’ll offer three case studies to illustrate how this works.

Case Study 1 — A Workplace Environment Shifts to a SMP and Back

EarlThomas786 told this story at Spawny’s Space a while back.

“So she called out her female colleagues for dressing to entice and they didn’t like it. The hypocrisy is so thick, you need a knife to cut it. Women love to dress to entice but hate being called on it. In the end, it is not very businesslike.’

It pops the bubble of the narrative “women good, men bad.” And “blame the men for everything bad that happens to a woman.” Women have seemed to lose all common sense and decency with feminism. Men are going to look at cleavage and tight fitting clothes and most women already know this… They aren’t fooling anybody.

And they always retort with “the 50s called, they want their narrative back.” Perhaps if somebody put into their brains that dressing modestly shows off their dignity and ’empowers’ them it might change minds.”

This scenario is interesting because it is loaded with conflicting demands. By dressing to entice, the scantily dressed colleagues are making circumstantial demands for both the men’s attention and for other women to compete with them for that attention. They’re also making a contextual demand to turn the workplace into a SMP. The conscientious coworker who called them out is making a direct demand for them to tone it down, an implied demand for them to be more professional, and an intuitive demand for them to focus on their work and keep order and decorum in the workplace environment.

The hoettes threw a hyssy fit because they could not have their fun after being exposed, and then they unwillingly complied.

Note that in spite of all the forces working in the h0es’ favor — men’s lust, women’s natural desire for attention, the default prerogatives of hypergamy, and the conflicting demands — calling out the behavior caused the behavior to change.

Case Study 2 — The Narcissistic Mother-in-Law

Eutrapelia2001 wrote about the woes of having a narcissistic mother-in-law.

“For the past 11 years, even longer if you count the last part of dating where I started to see these issues, my wife has been embroiled in a two-front war with the fronts never occurring at the same time. She has a certifiable NPD mother with all the typical consequences of that situation, i.e. golden children, scapegoats, and the infamous flying monkeys. My wife has often been the scapegoat except when my wife is feeding her mother drama about our marriage.”

First of all, it helps that Eutrapelia recognizes that he’s dealing with a family (or “generational”) curse — that is, it’s a destructive dynamic that has a life of its own, it spreads from family member to family member, and gets repeated from generation to generation. Here, certain expressions of love are withheld (by scapegoating in this case), causing other family members to suffer, and then a reprieve of the suffering is used as a ransom or a method of control. IOW, it plays off of emotional needs (through a carefully controlled balance of drama and scapegoating) and ego affirmation (through conditional acceptance).

“This dynamic starts off with a fight with her mom or one of her sisters. The family turns against her and she turns to me for guidance and comfort. I help her deal with the situation in a healthy fashion, working to establish healthy boundaries without cutting ties, but being willing to do so, if necessary. This setting of boundaries then becomes a source of family drama. However, after a time, my wife’s mother will stop the scapegoating and slowly bring my wife back into her circle of influence. The price of admission, so to speak, is providing the mother with narcissistic supply by recounting examples of me putting my foot down on something (like where our daughter is to go for First Communion classes) and how dictatorial I am, etc.”

It seems like Eutrapelia has come to understand how this destructive dynamic works. That’s good! The identification of the problem is the first step towards correcting it.

“This dynamic goes back and forth where my wife comes to me for comfort with family drama and then throws me under the bus with family and friends without a second thought, looking for comfort for her own ego and need to control. Then it is the “boundaries” that I attempted to have her set for her family are set against me under the advice of her mother. What makes this effective against my wife is that her mother never gave her approval or much love growing up. She is always seeking after it, even in adulthood. It doesn’t matter if she has to create fissures and destroy the reputation of her husband in a way that only a woman can. I would also add that the mother-in-law is only too happy to split her daughter away from me in subtle and explicit ways because the MIL has come to realize that I have her number and won’t allow her to manipulate me.”

As you can see, the locus of the MILs power is in calling out the various behaviors of the other family members, labeling them as either a golden child or a scapegoat. She thereby changes and controls the faux truth narrative running in the family at any given time. All she has to do is affix blame to one person or another to create a twisted version of the personalities and motives involved, all in her favor of course.

“It took me a while to wake up to this dynamic for a couple of reasons. First, no men in my past would talk about these kinds of dynamics or didn’t understand them themselves. Second, I had never come across this level of skilled and deliberate manipulation. In a twisted fashion, I am awed by their prowess and have learned in many ways. Not being a naturally manipulative person, it has been a difficult path to understand this mentality and then learn to navigate it.”

In writing these words, Eutrapelia is calling out his MIL’s bad behavior. But he needs to call it out to his MIL’s face for it to do him any good. Nevertheless, the fact that he is talking about it with other men is helping him gather his thoughts and words together, and this will gird him up for such a confrontation.

Next, he needs to make his wife understand this dynamic from an objective viewpoint, such that she will stand on his side when that confrontation occurs.* He needs to explain to her what he sees happening, just like he described here. Name it to change it! It will help if he does this at a time when she is in a better mood, and he will need patience and perseverance too, as it may require him to talk to her about it many times before her eyes can be opened, and even then it might take a while to see results. But when she begins to recognize the pattern, then she’ll be able to view the situation more objectively, and see how unhealthy and damaging it is. And don’t neglect prayer!

I haven’t heard anything from Eutrapelia since this event, so I’m hoping that he’s made some progress since then.

For those readers who are facing troublesome situations with their MIL, Dalrock wrote about how to deal with a troublesome MIL in two classic posts. Reading these are a must for men in this situation.

* Dalrock’s posts make it clear that it is of crucial importance to get the wife on your side.

Case Study 3 — Bad Influences

I’ve mentioned this situation that my wife had with her mother a couple times before, most recently in Riding the Raging Rivulet (2022-10-13), but here I’ll describe it in terms of making demands and setting boundaries.

My wife and her mother used to have this emotional enmeshment. (Not sure if that’s the correct psychological term, but it is a good descriptor.) My MIL had this long running habit of controlling my wife’s behaviors and general opinions of things by playing the blame-shame-game. My wife kept coming back for more because she wanted the attention. IOW, it made her feel loved. They were like this ever since my wife was a child.

I discovered this problem like this. After we married, my wife talked to her mother on the phone every day, sometimes for more than an hour. At first, I didn’t think this in itself was a problem, but every time she talked with her mother, she was angry and distraught for several hours afterwards. I assumed my wife was upset about something they discussed, so it took me a while to figure out that her mother was the cause of her distemper. It only became clear to me when I saw that practically every time she talked with her mother, she was gritchy for the rest of the day. Once I identified her mother as the cause of her negativity, and not the content of their talk, I pointed this out to her. Every time you talk to your mother, you’re in a bad mood for the rest of the day!”  Of course, this made her angry and she said I was hating on her mother and so on. But I continued to point this out every time it happened. After a few months, she started to believe me.

Name it to change it!

Eventually, a day came when I pointed this out to her and she asked me what she should do about this. (I waited until this time because it was important to her for me to let her see this dynamic for herself and desire a change, rather than for me to try to force a change of her behavior. IOW, I had to be patient and let her grow at her own pace.) So I told her, “Limit your phone calls with your mother to 10 minutes, once a week. If she calls more frequently, then don’t answer, or else, answer and tell her you’re too busy to talk right now and hang up.”  She didn’t want to do this at first, but as the emotional turmoil continued to drag her down (amplified by my bringing her attention to it), she became more willing to follow my advice, and she made some effort to spend less time on the phone with her mother. As a result, she spent more time talking with me, and she was in a better mood too. Whenever I pointed out this change to her, she became more convinced that I was right about her and her mother. Not long after this, she really stuck to the “rule” of “10 minutes, once a week”. Within a couple months, she was practically a different person! Eventually, a day came when she realized she was much happier than she was before and she thanked me for this.

Name it to change it!

Now we’re on to the next thing — being thankful for the small blessings in life. I’m handling this in pretty much the same way. I started off by explaining to her how happiness is tied to thankfulness. Then after that, every time she complains or is stubbornly negative, I point out how the situation could be viewed as a “glass half full”. She is slowly catching on.

In summary, I urged my wife to draw boundaries for herself, rather than me setting boundaries for her. It took time and patience, but now she’s able to do this for herself.

Conclusions

To reiterate what I’ve said earlier, if men would call out bad habits and behaviors, and explain to their wives how the bad dynamic works, and how she can get control of the situation by drawing boundaries, then you’ll be giving her a clear choice to do the right thing. (So many people continue doing the wrong thing or let bad habits continue because they’re not sure what the right thing would be, or because they don’t have the courage to face the situation, or because they don’t know how to face the situation.)

Be that objective voice in her life, calling out directions for her to find her way out of the woods. Again, it takes patience.

Name it to change it!

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Agency, Boundaries, Calculated Risk Taking, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Collective Strength, Communication Styles, Communications, Conflict Management, Conserving Power, Courtship and Marriage, Decision Making, Determination, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Discipline and Molding, Enduring Suffering, Female Evo-Psych, Female Power, Fundamental Frame, Game, Game Theory, Generational Curses, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Hypergamy, Inner Game, Intersexual Dynamics, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Masculine Disciplines, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Perseverance, Personal Domain, Persuasion, Power, Relationships, Sanctification & Defilement, Sphere of Influence, Strategy, Teaching, The Power of God, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

21 Responses to Name it to Change it!

  1. Red Pill Apostle says:

    While “Name it to change it” sounds like it could be a Joel Osteen prosperity gospel ‘sermon’ (Name it to change it: How to get God’s blessings for your life by speaking them in to being), there is truth that making people aware of patterns helps.

    My experience pointing out patterns and behaviors with Mrs. A is similar to Jack’s with his wife. It’s usually something like this: recognize what is going on, point this out to the wife, she gets upset for a while, she realizes what I told her is true, change begins to occur. There are times when what I’ve pointed out to Mrs. A was a revelation to her about herself.

    Liked by 2 people

    • caterpillar345 says:

      @RPA
      I agree with your sentiment about the prosperity gospel. But I’m coming to believe that there’s a sense in which we each create our own reality by the things we pay attention to and give our time to. For example, I’ve often heard, and experienced it myself to some degree, that after keeping a gratitude journal or at least focusing on gratitude more, life suddenly seems to be full of things to be grateful for and my outlook is better. Even Hebrews 11:6 speaks to this:

      “…for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”

      It seems that God is unlikely to manifest Himself to someone who doesn’t believe in Him anyway (except in unusual circumstances like Saul on the Damascus road). So if I act like God exists and take praying and reading the Word seriously, I “create” a reality where I can have a relationship with God. Learning about patterns are helpful. I’ve been thinking a lot about various aspects of how I was raised over the last few months. In some sense, the past is gone and I can’t change how I was raised, so why think about it? But perhaps by identifying patterns in how I was raised, it might help explain a pattern I still have now, and maybe I can work on identifying and implementing solutions to fix it.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        I’m just in awe of Osteen’s mullet, which is why I worked him into a comment. Jealousy? Absolutely. That hair is permed perfection every Sunday morning!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        Caterpillar,
        What you are describing is encapsulated in Σ Frame Maxim 29: The Law of Personal Spheres.

        Σ Frame Maxim 29, AKA The Law of Personal Spheres, “Fungible Reality”, “Non-Shared Environment” (Catacomb Resident, Jack): To the man of faith, reality is fungible. God has given mankind the latitude of having multiple dimensions of coexistent realities. Each man’s reality is a manifestation of his individual constitution, beliefs, choices, and experiences. One reality is just as valid as another. There is no objective reality that we all share.
        Corollary A to Maxim 29: Reality is best understood as a living being (God, if you will), a person with all the quirks and variations we would expect from even the most perfect of persons. And as any real person, reality treats no two of us just the same.
        Corollary B to Maxim 29: With all the threads of events and experiences winding through our lives, no two of us will experience reality in precisely the same way.
        Corollary C to Maxim 29: It’s only true if you believe it’s true. Your faith and convictions are the key to discovering and developing the thread of reality God has for you.

        Read more Σ Frame Axioms and Maxims.

        Like

  2. catacombresident says:

    I suppose this was one of the easy things in my marriage. My wife couldn’t wait to get away from her mother. We moved across the country for a few years. Another time we moved overseas for several years. Each situation had its own problems, but my wife thanked me for keeping her away from her mom. My wife still won’t drive a few miles to see her mother because it drags her down and she hates it.

    Like

    • Maniac says:

      I can empathize.

      My late mother was a good, hardworking woman, but I’d be lying if I were to say that she didn’t meddle and nag like nobody’s business. I’ve been praying for God to soften my heart so I can forgive her and others and move onto bigger and better things.

      Liked by 1 person

      • catacombresident says:

        No doubt. My MIL hates all men, and me in particular. She won’t hesitate to manipulate when she wants something, but she’s the quintessential Blue Pill woman in that respect.

        Like

  3. Jack says:

    I thought this would be a popular post.

    — New topic.
    — Catchy title
    — Expanding earlier theories that have been proved true.
    — Biblical foundations.
    — Interesting true stories.
    — Easy, actionable advice.

    I expected the comments would be filled with stories of how men drew boundaries, called out bad behaviors, and got various types of responses, describing what worked and what didn’t, and that this would continue all weekend.

    But according to the numbers of views and comments so far, this post is below average.

    Oh well…

    Like

    • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

      “I expected the comments would be filled with stories of how men drew boundaries, called out bad behaviors, and got various types of responses…”

      Probably because there really aren’t that many success stories to draw from. It’s a big reason why we’re all here. I have a victory or two here and there, but it’s mostly failures from me. Hence, no participation.

      To make an analogy, teenagers are not going to go over their first or second car with a fine-tooth comb. They’re just happy to have wheels. It’s only once a man has driven for many years, and has the means to have his choice, does he really sit down and ask what he wants in a car. Most men today have female scarcity and are not going to scrutinize the pussy that comes their way. They’re happy just to have wheels. Draw boundaries and risk her walking away? Not going to happen. That it’s a loser’s strategy doesn’t cross the mind until he has the means to have a choice, which some men never achieve.

      Liked by 1 person

      • redpillboomer says:

        “Most men today have female scarcity and are not going to scrutinize the pussy that comes their way. They’re happy just to have wheels. Draw boundaries and risk her walking away?”

        I’ve noticed this with even older, blue pill men. Divorced, yet still thirsty, I watch them get enamored with the attention they are receiving from a women or a couple (or even several women in one case) and vetting goes right out the window. As a red pill guy, I’m like, “Really??? Come on man! Didn’t you learn anything from the school of hard knocks?” Apparently not, and off they go traipsing into the “wild poon-nanny yonder.”

        Like

      • Jack says:

        RPB,

        “Divorced, yet still thirsty, […] vetting goes right out the window.”

        Divorce is deeply humbling and will make anyone thirsty as he11. I have no data, but I would guess that 95% of divorced people will double, triple, or even quadruple their N count within just 2-5 years after their divorce. The idea of Marriage becomes anathema and Vetting is the farthest thing from their minds. I’m sure this is what Jesus was talking about when he said, “…whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery…” (Matthew 5:32). I think this is one of the reasons why God hates divorce. Another reason is how quickly and thoroughly divorce destroys the children.

        Like

      • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

        I actually have a recent story here that piggybacks off of that. Our church’s young adult group does swing dancing twice a month and since I always wanted to learn, I started showing up. There’s no age limit, but most of the girls there are early to mid 20s. Since I’m fairly new, and the dances aren’t too frequent, some of them recognize me or remember parts of things about me, but not everything. So I play a game where I make them guess my name or some detail we talked about last dance. Believe me when I tell you, they eat this up. Women really come alive when you’re a bit of a mystery they have to figure out.

        Here’s the thing: it’s been so much fun on my part that I’ve had to stop myself from getting carried away by their affections. One of them said something last week that I had to stop myself and say “that might be a red flag.” That, and the fact she didn’t remember a joke we had made the time before reminded me that I was a little more over the moon with her than she was with me. I really thought I had her and a couple others eating out of my hand for a whole minute. I would have jumped at a date with any of them without thinking. I’m glad it happened though. It brought me back to earth.

        We get mad at women all the time for not being able to properly vet men despite all their options, but I wonder if they go through the same thing, where all the attention goes to their head and the reasoning capabilities go out the window. If it happens to us men, it’s got to be worse for women.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        BtM,

        “Women really come alive when you’re a bit of a mystery they have to figure out.”

        Yes. Women are deeply fascinated and innately drawn to mystery, mythos, secrecy, and the paranormal. In fact, there was a PUA who took his namesake and major game plays from this phenomena. I know from experience that if you tell a story about ghosts, a near-death experience, or some supernatural event, women will eat that up and loosen up for you. The key is in choosing a setting in which it is appropriate and how much you can make your story believable. This is an aspect of attraction that I’ve touched on before, but it was not well received. The female readers strongly agreed but could not explain why. The men scoffed.

        Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Bardelys,

        Most of the men who read Sigma Frame are a bit to the right of the bell curve on IQ and this also applies to remembering things. That someone does not remember something that you do may be a red flag, or it may be you remembering an interaction in detail that a normal person would not.

        If what I described is you, expecting people to remember events in the detail that you do can burn you or can be a blessing. Good memory can also be a gift, as long as you know how to use it and don’t expect others to remember events they way you do. After years of trial and error, I now tend to play as if I don’t remember the specifics of interactions or events in fine detail to see what the person I’m talking with does and them go from there.

        So, if you go to a dancing event and a woman does not remember a dance or interaction they way you do, I’d personally want other data points. It could be that she left the last event with an overall favorable impression, but can’t put her finger on the specific details why this is the case. Should this be the case take the good mojo and run with it.

        Like

      • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

        RPA,

        You read too much into that. There were other data points I didn’t list. The point was I let the good vibes go to my head, which is much the same problem you alluded to. Carry on.

        Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      “I expected the comments would be filled with stories of how men drew boundaries, called out bad behaviors, and got various types of responses, describing what worked and what didn’t, and that this would continue all weekend.”

      Here’s an anecdotal data point for you Jack. When I started down the road of correcting my marriage there was a specific day of telling Mrs. Apostle that her denying me sex was sin against me and God. I got a defiant, “Is that so?!” which I will remember until the day I die or go full Joe Biden, which ever comes first. I will remember where I was when I told her, where she was, the words, the tone of her voice and the angry defiant sneer on her face.

      Fast forward a couple years of holding the line and caring more about having a marriage I want vs actually staying married and this is where we’re at. Mrs. Apostle is in the other room watching TV in her comfy clothes. If I was horny and told her to go upstairs she’d turn the TV off and go. It may be a quicky and she would fight being tired after a long day of activities, but she would not deny me. I know because I’ve told her to be naked and upstairs or in a specific outfit and upstairs multiple times and every time she’s done it (although she does question me sometimes if she’s really tired).

      Liked by 1 person

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  6. ramman3000 says:

    “Be that objective voice in her life, calling out directions for her to find her way out of the woods. Again, it takes patience. Name it to change it!”

    Naming a thing gives it power, independent of its reality. The reason there are so many girls who want to transition to being boys is because they have these sets of feelings and they find validation when they are able to apply a name to it. Naming it doesn’t make it correct, but it certainly can cause change.

    Like

    • Jack says:

      Ramman3000,
      Yes, a remarkable observation. It can work in the negative sense the other way too! In this case, the name is a misnomber — a lie.

      Like

  7. Pingback: Men’s Role in the Mess | Σ Frame

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