On Womens’ Response to MGTOW

Women just can’t fathom the fact that unattractive men exist, and are thus duped by the apex fallacy.

Readership: All
Length: 1,200 words
Reading Time: 4 minutes

From the age of 18-30, all women see is very attractive men for sex and relationships of varying duration and intensity (whom she’s sharing with a couple of other women, whether she knows that or not).

And indeed, that is precisely the experience of a lot of women from age 18-30 – attractive men are everywhere, for whatever purpose women want.

Because of 10+ years of experiences and interactions with others during their peak SMV years, most women really believe attractive men would always be available to them for whatever they want/need them for, whenever they want/need them.

Women are not only solipsistic in the short term, they’re also solipsistic about the long term.

As I described in last week’s post about the Rupture of the MMP, women simply cannot understand why men cannot or will not do what they want. It just doesn’t compute. Women view men not doing these things as a personal affront, as if men are supposed to self-improve for them.

A key reason for this is that many women have never really seen a grown man go through his life, because they grew up as young girls not living with their fathers. They’ve never seen an adult man live his life, how he lives, how he works, what he likes, the daily and weekly rhythms and ups and downs that he experiences. They don’t even really know how to live with a man. Not a boy, not her brother – a man. Living with brothers is similar, but not the same. Girls watch their brothers interact with other girls in overtly sexual ways, so she learns about boys’ sexual proclivities and responses. But brother doesn’t show or teach her much else. (In fairness, the reverse is true too – at least some men aren’t much keyed in to women’s motivations and timetables, and that too has caused a lot of these problems.)

Women understand what attracts men, and what men like, for the most part. Women know how to attract men. But women in their 20s and 30s don’t really understand men’s different timetables and motivations for interacting with women at differing stages of men’s lives and that can make it hard for women to relate to men on anything more than a superficial level. They don’t understand or really care about why men do what they do sexually and relationally, and why they make the decisions they make, until it really starts affecting them. They don’t understand or care much to understand, why men decide to have sex, how they go about picking women for sex and relationships, and how men view the roles of sex, commitment, marriage, and parenthood in their own lives. Men and women are not the same at all in this regard. And a lot of women aren’t much attuned to those things.

Women don’t care about unattractive men going their own way. They don’t care about unattractive men, period. Women are just fine with unattractive men doing whatever they do, so long as those men do it away from them. The only times women care about unattractive men are when one tries to get on her radar (where she tries to avoid them) or her attempts to get their money via her online webpage or OnlyFans site (where she feigns “interest” for the sake of collecting $$$).

Women don’t see or don’t know about men trying and failing, or having already been through repeated rejection and failure with women, or men’s ineptitude at dating and sex, or men doing the risk/benefit analysis and concluding it’s not worth it, and so they conclude, “Those men are screwing this whole thing up!  They’re not doing what they’re supposed to do!  They’re just not keeping up!  Don’t they know they’re supposed to be ready to be sex partners, boyfriends, husbands, and fathers when we need them?  Hey, men, what’s your problem??  Why are you just sitting there not doing anything? You’re supposed to be courting us, asking us out, dating us, marrying us, and fathering our kids!”

This is of course because the attractive men they were having sex with a few years before aren’t interested in commitment with them, or have since picked someone else and are unavailable. So they’re left with the less attractive men, who of course were either playing a different game with different women, or not playing, or unable to play. So there are very few attractive men left when they’re looking to marry in their mid-20s to early 30s. Jack called this a mating glut, and it is.

Even though men who go MGTOW are most likely NOT in the top 20 percentile of men, nor are they in the wider pool of Betas comprising the marriage market, women are ignorant enough to conflate the whole MGTOW movement as a shortage of attractive or marriageable men.

Furthermore, they view MGTOW as being a problem that men caused. To women, the problem is “weak men screwing feminism up” (as Dalrock accurately called it). Women’s view on this is that women are advancing and doing it on their own, and it is men’s job to stay apace with what women are doing. It’s men’s job to improve themselves, be fit and good looking, and to be high earners, so they can be selected for sex and for LTRs and marriage, as women deem appropriate, when women want them. Women think that men not doing these things are being selfish, shallow, short sighted, immature, insecure, and “afraid of commitment”. In other words, “screwing it all up”.

Look up “apex fallacy” – the erroneous assumption that the characteristics of the top members of a group apply to all members of the group. Only top quality men are “visible” to women, so they believe that all men, including ones they don’t know, including men they have never talked to or noticed, and including unattractive men, are out there having all kinds of sex, all the time. I’ve talked to several women who have never heard of MGTOW or the Manosphere who really do believe this. And they believe it because that’s what the attractive men they’re watching and having sex with are doing. Their conclusion is that “If the hot guys I have sex with are doing this, then that must be what all men are doing, right?  I mean, men are all horn dogs, so they’re out there getting sex from someone, somewhere, right?”

So when women hear about MGTOW, they conclude that Bradley Betabux has gone AWOL and is now off the sexual market. Although this idea is ridiculous at face value, they think this is reality – and it is terrifying to them.

So that’s what is going on. Women don’t really care about MGTOW until it comes time to find men to marry, and there aren’t any men left. They don’t understand why the guys “aren’t keeping up”. And they don’t understand what’s motivating men at different times in their lives. They also fail to understand that men who go MGTOW are not the same men they are after, so they fall victim to their own ignorance and fears.

This entry was posted in Attitude, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Collective Strength, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Female Power, Feminism, Fundamental Frame, Holding Frame, Hypergamy, MGTOW, Incels, Models of Failure, Moral Agency, Psychological Disorders, Purpose, Sexual Authority, Solipsism, The Hamster, Zeitgeist Reports. Bookmark the permalink.

8 Responses to On Womens’ Response to MGTOW

  1. Lastmod says:

    There is also a segment of men that maybe were okay and half decent with women…… They got married, and then….. 7-10 years later, The Divorce came! These men who were cleaned and clocked become today’s MGTOW. Sure, he lost the house….. The world is filled with places to live and a divorce is a “change” for sure……. Child support…. that’s been happening for a long time. It’s the kid or kids. That’s the real clincher.

    Wife takes the kids, moves in with a new guy and has them “re-daddy” immediately. She refuses to follow court orders on visitation with a passive-aggressive, “Oh…. He’s so insentitive! Why would he want to see them anyway?” attitude. The man is already strapped and with what little he has, cannot afford to be in court and constantly filing and paying an overpriced lawyer to get a woman to do what she agreed to on paper to begin with…..

    Another tactic, is that a man who lost the home, who lost half his pay to child support, alimony, and “court fees”, now has to rent an apartment. Since the kid or kids cannot have their “own” room when visiting (especially a daughter), the woman will argue to the court, “child protective services” and “family services” reasons why the children should not be with their father or have his visitation rights. She usually wins.

    Some men give up. Then Mommy and new daddy or boyfriend will say to the kids, “See, daddy didn’t want to see you. He’s no good!”.

    It’s terrible and something I’ve never experienced. Some of these men are very hurt, angry and I cannot relate to them. Some men are thrown in jail for not making their alimony and child support.

    This segment of MGTOW is not the majority, but it’s a good sized portion of men under the umbrella of MGTOW.

    Even after the horrors of a divorce, for some strange reason, some men will sign right back up for dating and marriage, and don’t seem to learn their lesson.

    Liked by 5 people

  2. redpillboomer says:

    “Women understand what attracts men, and what men like, for the most part. Women know how to attract men. But women in their 20s and 30s don’t really understand men’s different timetables and motivations for interacting with women at differing stages of men’s lives and that can make it hard for women to relate to men on anything more than a superficial level.”

    This is what the mother’s and grandmother’s USED to teach their daughters. Beginning pretty much with the Boomer generation, moms and grand moms, for various reasons, started focusing on other things for their daughters, e.g. education, careers, living vicariously through the daughter’s dating life in an attempt to relive her own or what she missed, etc. I recall reading somewhere that moms and grand moms back-in-the-day (70+ years ago), not only prepared their daughters to be wives, homemakers and mothers, they even taught them things like fellatio. The old school memes of mom and grand mom with the banana in hand standing there in the kitchen with daughter looking on, implied they were teaching daughter what to do with a man’s hard-on.


    • Lastmod says:

      It was also economical. After that 1974 recession / oil embargo / stagflation / removal of the gold standard……the USA never really recovered from it. Costs went up, wages real wages NEVER grew again in the country after 1974.

      Many women entered the workforce out of necessity. It wasn’t “because feminism” (it was taken up BY feminism as liberation for the younger set at the time) but even my mother was gently “forced” back into the workplace. Hence “latchkey” kids (like myself) by the end of the decade and into the 1980’s.

      Many women didn’t want to work…..but the prices going through the roof….many women did sit with their husbands and “wanted to help” and it wasn’t out of “because I am a liberated woman, and I want to usurp you in the home”

      In 1979, my mother went back to work full-time, and it did cause some disagreements over the dinner table when my parents were doing budget. I remember that.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. feeriker says:

    At risk of introducing a no-true-Scotsman argument, isn’t the point of MGTOW that a man is going his own way, thus implying that he couldn’t possibly care less what any woman, or indeed anyone of either sex, thinks of his lifestyle choice?

    Women under 40 mock a MGHOW under 40 as an “incel” or “loser?” Fine. Whatever. He’s too busy building a stable future for himself to care what any arrogant slore thinks of him. He doesn’t have mental or emotional energy to waste on that. The same women, once they pass 40, screech and howl that the same MGHOW they mocked as an incel and a loser when they were younger and had options still isn’t the least bit interested in them? Fine. Whatever. He’s too busy living his own life plan, the one he spent his first 20 years of adulthood building, enjoying the fruits of his own labor, and maintaining a tranquil life free of estrogen-generated drama to even consider rescuing some loserette from the consequences of her own bad choices.

    This is going to become more and more the norm as the War On Men escalates. Previous generations couldn’t see the big picture, but the younger generation of men knows all too well what is going on and is becoming more adept fighting back by not providing the enemy with any ammunition with which to destroy them.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Lastmod says:

      Exactly. If indeed you are “going your own way”, then just go and do it right? MGTOW does encompass a huge swath of men. Some are monks and focused on other things… and its a forum “community” of sorts. Some are just angry. A large swath are just PUA / Game types who appeared “enmasse”, after most of their reputations collapsed and now they are in the forums “extolling the virtues” of their “foolproof” methods to get women.

      A common theme in MGTOW right now still is “Why the f*ck are only losers and incels here?” Even within the MGTOW crowd, guys are saying, “If they just learned what women want, they could easily be a ladies man” (more shaming language). Their logic is “Men just have not got the information yet, so I (the newly appointed King of MGTOW) will give it to them!”

      There still is a small “MRA” element in MGTOW, but most people in MGTOW hate Paul Elam.

      The fastest growing form of MGTOW is now Black Pill. There are “Christian MGTOW” forums as well….. and most people leave them alone.

      “Bro… You’re following someone… Jesus…. You can’t be MGTOW and follow ANYONE!!! Loser!”

      Yet, men who say that are following p*ssy pretty much day and night.

      MGTOW cannot be tagged under “one” thing.

      In principle, MGTOW is “You can’t be married” and “You can’t be co-habitating” with a woman. Other than that, it includes a very large swath of men.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. locustsplease says:

    Most mgtow are not in the top %20. %80 of all men are out of the top %20 anyways. Being top %20 doesnt get you anything. 1 out of 5 men are not turning womens heads. Of the men i know with great wives the common factor is blind dumb luck. Not good looks while some of them may b good looking. Top %5-1 is really what about 60% of women feel they are entitled to until the wall.

    Women could end mgtow next week. They created it and could easily end it if they wished. That would mean giving up approx 150bil in annual child support and being decent people who dont sell their former sexual lovers into slavery. Unfortunately this has not crossed their minds. Even the good and great wives still support their ungodly rights to decades of former lovers labor.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. Pingback: She don’t need no man! Except… | Σ Frame

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