The Unsolvable Problem of The Modern Sexual/Relationship Market

A broken lock, and a broken key.

Readership: Christians
Theme: Dating and the SMP
Author’s Note: This is a more or less original post based on discussions under Scott’s post, What would the world be like if everyone was Red Pilled? (2021-03-13).
Reader’s Note: This post is a follow up to Novaseeker’s post, The Cross Of Our Age (2021-05-03).
Length: 2,800 words
Reading Time: 9.5 minutes


Christians in today’s society are in a catch 22. If you’re a devout Christian man, you are expected to suppress your natural sexual urges. The Church expects suppression because you’re a Christian and you’re “not supposed to want” sex. Your natural desire for sex is considered to be sinful and “of the flesh”. The World expects suppression because you’re an unattractive, undesirable man.

If you’re a devout Christian woman, OTOH, you are expected to do pretty much whatever you want. The Church will look the other way if you decide to have premarital sex. The World will encourage you and cheer you on for having premarital sex. Then, Christian women complain loudly that they can’t find Christian men to marry.

Christian men and Christian women aren’t finding each other. Christian women don’t choose Christian men because they are not sufficiently sexually attractive or assertive. Christian men cannot attract any women, much less Christian women, in large part because they have not been taught how to develop sexual attractiveness; and are severely discouraged from expressing sexual attraction to any women. Most such men are even threatened away from participation. These men get nuclear rejected. Young women shame, intimidate, and threaten these men. Pastors and other church “men” threaten and intimidate these young men. As such, Christian men don’t actively participate in any kind of dating/sexual marketplace.


The Male Viewpoint

Most Christian men aren’t attractive to any women, much less Christian women. This is largely because the Church has espoused the Blue Pill mentality so prevalent in the wider culture, and this, when combined with the Christian admonition to eschew sexual sin, has emasculated the men in the Church. The women who find Christian men attractive are several tiers below them on the SMV scale, and below the man’s attraction threshold.

Men are excoriated for pursuing women, particularly in the Church. Any overt expression of male sexual interest is discouraged, sanctioned, and severely punished. Men are dissuaded and threatened away from sexual expression and even from wanting to have sex. Attractive Men who have real options to do so, take the hint and stay away from Church.

The Female Viewpoint

Christian women put on the appearance of devoutness and piety, but won’t actually walk the walk. Christian women expect a dating, social, and sex life that very much resembles that of their secular sisters — so long as it takes place away from church and close family. Because they are women, they can get that. Because they are women, they take full advantage of all the benefits feminism got for them: Sexual conduct without judgment or consequence. They can do and say anything they want, anytime they want, anywhere they want, with or to anyone they want, and everyone looks the other way or cheers them on.

Widespread fornication throughout the culture pushes women’s sexual expectations into the stratosphere. Christian men are not attractive men in part because they eschew sex and do not pursue sex, which makes them appear bland and unmasculine. Christian women will not show clear IOIs to Christian men. They expect to be pursued, or for “love” to strike suddenly. Women will have sex with nonChristian men or with Christian men who aren’t really walking a Christian walk.  They do this in part because devout Christian men who really are “walking the walk” aren’t seen to be attractive.

Blithering bytches blithely boast that Bible based Billy is a boring buffoon in bed.

Present Choices

Men’s Choices

Christian men have 3 choices:

  1. Refuse to participate in the SMP (which is the defacto path to marriage) and go incel.
  2. Wait until a Christian woman decides to marry him.
  3. Sin, and have sex with whomever will deign to have sex with him (and hope that this might somehow, by the grace of God, lead to a “Christian” marriage).

Given the fact that these choices are so few, and so poor, most Christian men have no real choices. They allow life and circumstance to force them into option 1, until years later when chance and circumstance present option 2. As for option 3, most Christian men cannot have premarital sex — they just aren’t attractive enough to do that. Option 1 is scripturally sound, but its long term effects, including isolation, withdrawal, celibacy, solitude, and lack of human sexual contact, are damaging to most men, and in fact, are more damaging to men than they are to women.

Women’s Choices

Christian women have 3 choices:

  1. Refuse to participate and remain single.
  2. Wait for marriage to an unattractive Christian man.
  3. Sin, and have sex with attractive men.

Most Christian women choose option 3, mostly because they can, because there are no short term downsides to doing so, and because the alternatives are to waste their “fun” years or marry an unattractive man. Option 1 is scripturally sound but its long term effects on women include mental illness and emotional instability. Option 2 often results in infertility, interpersonal conflict, deep personal dissatisfaction, depression, and divorce.

As it Stands

As we can see from Viewpoints and Present Choices, there are several problems here:

  1. The majority of Men aren’t attractive.
  2. The few attractive Men are getting a plethora of poon and have no incentive to choose one woman for marriage.
  3. Men aren’t allowed to show overt sexual interest.
  4. Women aren’t attracted to the Men they say they want.
  5. Women are having sex with the Men they are attracted to.
  6. Widespread fornication throughout the culture spoils women for marriage.
  7. Widespread fornication throughout the culture spoils men’s appreciation of women for marriage.

Overall, we’re looking at unrestrained, runaway hypergamy, but in my view, 1 and 4 are the root issues. 3 is faux prudish denial, and the others are just plain sin.

Failures of the Church

In the wider Christian community especially RC and mainline Protestant, men and women ignore undisputed Scripture and tradition on Christian sexual morality.  Almost no one even tries to adhere to Christian sexual morality.  Extramarital sex is strongly frowned on and discouraged, but this is only lip service.  As a practical matter, everyone knows that almost all Christian women and a lot of Christian men are fornicating or have fornicated.  Things are said about it, sometimes, but nothing is done about it.  Everyone looks the other way whenever it comes up.  Although artificial birth control is expressly contrary to RC doctrine, many Catholics use it and don’t make much secret of it.  This has been going on for decades in the US — it was going on with people my parents’ age (early Boomers), it went on with my generation (Xers), and it continues unabated among subsequent generations.

It’s something, isn’t it? Christian women have prolific premarital illicit sex, sometimes with multiple men in succession, and no one bats an eye. Meanwhile, an average Christian man only has to say that he wants to have sex, and every pastor and so-called “Christian family ministry” from here to the coast lose their minds. Christian men are being severely persecuted by their own people merely for wanting to do what their Christian sisters are getting away with with nonChristian men. These Christian men aren’t even getting to have any sex, and they’re being punished! Meanwhile, Christian women are fornicating, the Church knows they’re fornicating, and the Church lets them get away with it. This is abusive and unfair. It’s isn’t right, it isn’t scriptural, and it needs to stop.

The Church is no different from the wider secular culture!

As for the Church, I know what’s really going on there. Overrun by feminism and women’s feelings, the Church has gotten squeamish about men of average and below average attractiveness expressing sexual desire. We’re fine with it when attractive men want sex. But we sure don’t like it when Billy Beta wants in on the action. It’s OK for Will WorshipLeader and Alan AMOGPastor to talk about their sexual temptations. It’s even OK when Harley McBadboy shows up on Sunday and sends a wave of woos through the wimminz. But God forbid that Tom Teacher or Paul Plumber or Louie Lawyer or Stan STEMLord would ever express sexual interest in sexually attractive women. We just cannot have ordinary, average guys showing sexual interest. That’s “hyperaggressive” and “predatory”. That’s “sick” and “sinful” and “carnal” and “perverted”.

This is wrong. It is counterscriptural, and the Church needs to be called out on it and confronted on this at every turn.

This is truly the unsolvable problem of our age. It is said that Christian men are “supposed to” pursue; but as I mentioned before, Men are severely punished for overt sexual interest in women, including Christian women, and even for being honest about merely wanting sex. Christian women are not attracted to Christian men and do not want them. If a Christian woman wants marriage, she must either remain celibate or marry a man she’s not sexually attracted to. For those few men who have options and the ability to marry, there is little to no incentive for them to marry either. Most men of this caliber would prefer to leave the church altogether and take advantage of the copious opportunities to sleep around. Christian men and Christian women simply aren’t suited for each other.

The Church is doing exactly nothing to help solve this problem, and in fact is exacerbating it.

The Empty Set of Solutions

I posited a possible solution to this problem: Christian women who are serious about dating and marrying the Christian men they say they want need to start living that out. They need to take at least some initiative here. They need to be very clear about their wanting those men. They need to start dating, marrying, and having sex with those men, and they need to start having those men’s babies. They cannot wait until they’re 29.999, and then decide. It’s too late then.

But I was told this was an unworkable solution, because “those men aren’t attractive!” Christian women aren’t sexually attracted to those men. They don’t want those men. So, to force the issue by expecting Christian women to show interest in and marry men they don’t want is just not going to work. I was also scolded that “sexual pursuit is masculine and it is something that women just should not be doing. We need to have the men do the pursuing. That’s men’s job.”

So in the final analysis, there is no real solution today other than that which Novaseeker outlined in The Cross of Our Age (2021 May 3). Christian men and women must either remain celibate or marry. But these choices are too unpalatable for most, especially in a culture drenched in sex. Most devout men have no choice — it will be involuntary celibacy for them. A few will marry worn out, post-wall women who don’t want them and aren’t sexually attracted to them. The tiny remnant of women who choose to remain devout will either become voluntarily celibate, or marry men they aren’t sexually attracted to.

The Christian men who can, will leave the faith and have sex. Most Christian women have already “left” in spirit, and are having, or have had, sex.

This is the natural result of living in a culture that prioritizes sex above all else — God’s provisions and purposes cannot take precedence.

There is no palatable solution, really. None to be had. Christian men aren’t attractive. Christian women don’t want them. Christian men cannot get attractive enough even for Christian women because Christian sexual morality constrains and restrains their conduct. Christian women have sex with nonChristian men because there’s no short term reason not to. This problem cannot be solved, because I know most Christian men won’t improve, most Christian women won’t adhere to Christian sexual morality, and the Church will not change.

Actionable Steps


Resolve the question of lordship. Who will your lord and master be? Decide that, and then walk it out. Face the fact that you probably will not marry. If you do, you’ll probably marry someone who didn’t want you and who isn’t sexually attracted to you.

If you are resolved to marry, then you need to improve your attractiveness. Get in the gym, lose the weight, put on muscle mass, and get in shape. Learn what women are attracted to. Don’t give of yourself to any woman who isn’t responding in kind. Don’t put up with poor treatment from anyone, much less women.


If you will not adhere to Christian sexual morality, then complete your exodus and stop calling yourselves Christians. Submit yourselves wholly to the world and the prince of the power of the air, who is your lord. Stop complaining about “where are all the good men?”, because it’s insincere. You don’t want those men, so stop lying to yourselves and to everyone else that you do.

If you are going to adhere to Christian sexual morality, then be accountable and answerable to those in authority over you. Limit your dating pools to Christian men, pick one, submit to him, and marry him as soon as possible. If you really want these Christian men you claim to want, then prove it — pick one, marry him, have sex with him, and have his babies. Submit to him, do what he says, and build a life with him.

The Church

If the church wants to do anything about this, I have a few suggestions:

  • Stop confusing role with purpose. Stop confusing function with mission. The function of husband and role of father are NOT missions or purposes. A man’s purpose is to glorify God; his mission is the means by which he accomplishes that purpose. Encourage men to find their missions to serve their purposes of bringing glory to God, and that mission is almost never through being a husband to a woman or through being a father to children.
  • Get the hierarchy straight. Submission and Respect: Children –> Woman –> Man –> God. Love: God –> man –> woman –> children.
  • Get the scripture straight. You all need to start getting comfortable with “submit” and “submission”. You all have no problem telling men to submit to God and earthly authority. You need to start teaching girls about submitting to their fathers and wives to submit to their husbands. That means girls and women have to do what the men in authority over them tell them to do, just as men must do what God asks of them. Stop getting squeamish about the word “submission”. If that makes some girls and women unhappy, so be it, and too d@mn bad. Let them leave.
  • Start imposing hard Christian sexual morality on women too. Stop excusing women’s fornication. Start calling out women who do this. Start confronting it squarely, and start demanding their adherence to the same Christian sexual morality the Church demands of men. Start holding the women in your charge accountable, stop looking the other way, and stop excusing their clearly sinful and disobedient conduct. It’s not fair and the men in your charge know d@mn well it’s not fair. And you know it as well. This right here is the number one reason men are leaving your churches — because you abuse them and you don’t treat them fairly. You let girls get away with much worse conduct than what you punish boys for.
  • Stop the useless “men’s ministries” that consist of Saturday mornings with coffee and donuts and some stupid sermonette about how terrible and sinful the men in your charge are, and how they “need to do better.” Those men are NOT horrible and terrible merely because they want to have sex with attractive women. Those men are NOT horrible and terrible merely because they want their wives to keep the promises they made. They are MEN. They want, need, and desire things too, and those things do not sully them or lessen them.
  • Stop punishing men for clearly appropriate expressions of sexual interest.
  • Stop harping incessantly about porn, masturbation, and “adultery in [one’s] heart.” It’s not going to shut down their human nature.
  • Stop telling these men they need to pursue and marry women who don’t want them. Please, just stop.
  • Stop bashing men with platitudes about how he needs to “man up” and marry a slut. Just stop talking.
  • Stop lecturing men about dating, mating, sex, marriage, and sexual nature. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Women are not “slow cookers” and do not take a long time to “warm up” sexually. No, women will screw on a dime when a 6-6-6 man ramps up the sexual tension. Godliness, virtue, self-restraint, niceness, and kindness are not sexually attractive traits in men. You really should stop expressing any opinions about any of this from here on out.
  • Stop abusing and flagellating the men in your charge. Stop doing more damage.
  • Start coming alongside these men and helping them — real help about the real problems they come to you with.
This entry was posted in Agency, Attitude, Boundaries, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Churchianity, Collective Strength, Communications, Complementarianism, Conflict Management, Consent, Convergence, Courtship and Marriage, Desire, Determination, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Enduring Suffering, Fantasy and Illusion, Female Power, Feminism, Fundamental Frame, Handling Rejection, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Hypergamy, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Masturbation, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Moral Agency, Organization and Structure, Perseverance, Personal Presentation, Purpose, Relationships, Respect, Running the Gauntlet, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, SMV/MMV, Strategy, Vetting Women, Zeitgeist Reports. Bookmark the permalink.

31 Responses to The Unsolvable Problem of The Modern Sexual/Relationship Market

  1. whiteguy1 says:

    Here Here!

    Liked by 2 people

  2. thedeti says:

    Breaking my self imposed exile for this comment.

    The tag line is “A broken lock, and a broken key.”

    A lot of men don’t seem to see the point in fixing their keys when there are no working locks available to them. Even fixing many of the locks will probably not solve this problem — the working locks don’t fit the working keys either.

    Liked by 5 people

  3. jorgen x says:

    It’s the Bible translators fault, or the gospel writers’ for not quoting Jesus right. “He that looketh upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery in his heart already.” He didn’t say that, Matthew you liar. What he said was, “He that is staring at a married woman planning to go proposition her has committed adultery in his heart already.” Matthew screwed us all by writing it down wrong, and the translators helped screw us by not “fixing” it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • @ jorgen,

      “It’s the Bible translators fault, or the gospel writers’ for not quoting Jesus right. “He that looketh upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery in his heart already.” He didn’t say that, Matthew you liar. What he said was, “He that is staring at a married woman planning to go proposition her has committed adultery in his heart already.” Matthew screwed us all by writing it down wrong, and the translators helped screw us by not “fixing” it.”

      Definitely not Matthew. The original Greek is good. Even the English is decent if you actually correctly interpret the words used.

      Matthew 5:27-28
      27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery‘. 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

      Romans 7:7-12
      What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

      The same root word for ‘lust’ is translated as ‘covet’ in other places. Look it up. Strong’s Number: 1937 epithumeo.

      Single men or woman by definition cannot commit adultery with another single man or woman.

      Likewise, they cannot covet them either, like the 10 Commandments. Coveting is something that is done by desiring your neighbor’s wife, ox, and whatever else that is your neighbor’s.


      • caterpillar345 says:

        Likewise, they cannot covet them either, like the 10 commandments. Coveting is something that is done by desiring your neighbor’s wife, ox, and whatever else that is your neighbor’s.

        I’m not sure I’m tracking here. I agree, single people can’t commit adultery with each other. But my understanding is that lusting/coveting involves not just desiring (which isn’t wrong) but intent to possess something that you can’t obtain a righteous way. So I can lust/covet a single woman if I’m thinking about and planning how to sleep with her before being married, i.e. fornicating. If I’m thinking about what it would be like to sleep with her and that motivates me to continue evaluating the relationship and get married so we can sleep together, then that isn’t lusting.


      • Jack says:

        According to my understanding of lust, lust is worshipping the desire itself by lingering in a subjective poverty mentality, as opposed to pursuing an abundance mentality. Alternately, lust is when we are only thinking about a relationship in terms of what we can get out of it, instead of thinking of how we can nurture the other person towards spiritual growth. For example, pornography manifests lust as it is self-serving and cannot fulfill the purpose of the desire itself.


      • @ caterpillar345,

        “I’m not sure I’m tracking here. I agree, single people can’t commit adultery with each other. But my understanding is that lusting/coveting involves not just desiring (which isn’t wrong) but intent to possess something that you can’t obtain a righteous way. So I can lust/covet a single woman if I’m thinking about and planning how to sleep with her before being married, i.e. fornicating. If I’m thinking about what it would be like to sleep with her and that motivates me to continue evaluating the relationship and get married so we can sleep together, then that isn’t lusting.”

        I agree that one can make a woman an idol and have impure thoughts, thoughts of fornication.

        But that’s a different sin and not what the verse is about.

        It’s 1 Corinthians that talks about lust / can’t control your desire for a woman, in which case you should marry her (assuming she’s a Christian and so on).


      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        caterpillar345 — I see what you are saying about coveting a young single lass and I agree with your assessment. Until you are married, she is not yours and God may have another man to be her husband. So if you were to plot a way of fornicating with her, like getting her intoxicated for the purpose of hooking up, then you are effectively possessing something that is not yet yours to rightfully possess. The rights to her purity belong to her father until he gives them away.

        This goes to the heart of what deti wrote. Men are made to feel guilty about the natural desires they have for women in the same way as if they had set up an elaborate plan to find time alone with her, set the mood, and ply her with tequila (makes her clothes fall off, ask Joe Nichols). Then they tie themselves in knots trying to hold back the tsunami of testosterone coursing through their bodies instead of acting like men with desires and passion while still keeping their behavior in line.


  4. Red Pill Apostle says:

    “3) Men aren’t allowed to show overt sexual interest.”

    I wonder if this statement is part of a self fulfilling prophecy? The men who are comfortable and confident enough showing sexual interest even in the face of a pastor telling them it’s bad, probably have characteristics that women find attractive. Women are most likely receptive to this type of man’s advances, and even if they are not, he probably doesn’t care all that much. On the other hand are men who listen to the pastor, and if there are not other characteristics to overcome how being obedient makes others perceive him, then any advances he makes are probably going to be seen as out of place for him.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Devon70 says:

      If a physically unattractive man shows sexual interest in a woman, he will at best be considered “creepy”, and at worst get asked to leave. In this environment, there are good reasons not to be too forward with women. A big reason so many guys are on dating sites is because that’s one of the few places a guy can show interest without fear of getting his life or career ruined. I’m not endorsing dating sites but I understand why guys are on them, even when they have a low chance of success.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Elspeth says:

    I’ll refrain from repeating anything that has been rehashed 1,000 times. I think Red Pill Apostle is on to something, as the only men we have noted as bold enough to make any kind of interest known are the ones who are either unbelievers, or clearly nominal believers at best who mostly express a faith because they know it’s what some parents want to hear. It speaks to a massive failure on the part of parents (mostly mothers), and the church.

    I have had this conversation with MC/UMC Christian mothers more than once. Namely, that they really need to stop teaching their sons that it is wrong to see women as sexual beings, and that doing so is not the same thing as lust. Sexual desire is normal.

    Liked by 5 people

    • info says:

      Lust is a corruption of the desire for sex, just like gluttony is a corruption of the desire to eat.

      To miss out on the original Good and Divine intent is to erroneously call Good as Evil (Isaiah 5:20).

      It’s like condemning the human body because you keep seeing examples of disease whilst missing out on its beauty when it is healthy.

      Liked by 4 people

  6. thedeti says:

    None of this matters in the final analysis for men of at least the next few generations. None of this is going to change on a macro scale. Things will continue sliding in the same general direction and things will get much, much worse for men. It’s not going to change because it’s great right now for women, they’re in the power position, and they’ll make sure things stay this way.

    More and more men will do without. More and more men will marry for sex, and then get chewed up and spit out of the divorce meat grinder.

    More and more women will make it to their mid to late 30s, marry men they’re not sexually attracted to, and divorce rape those men.

    The things that brought me to this corner of the internet eleven years ago in late winter and early spring of 2011 have only worsened exponentially. They show no signs whatsoever of improving, and every sign of deteriorating further.

    Every suggestion I make about women helping the situation is shot down, while all the blame is put on men’s shoulders. This simply cannot stand. This is not all men’s fault. The only thing we can blame any men under age 30 for is not paying attention to all the information out there.

    But it’s not getting better. It’s getting worse, and it shows no signs of turning around.

    Women need to stop teaching their sons anything. Starting when the boys are about 7 or 8, they need to just stop talking in any way, shape, manner or form to their sons about anything. They need to stay out of their sons’ educations and leave it to their fathers. They need to stop advising their sons. They need to stop talking to their sons about women at all. Baby mamas need to give their sons to their fathers or give them up for adoption. Divorced women need to give their sons to their ex husbands. Women should not be allowed to raise sons alone. Women need to get entirely out of the “raising sons” business and leave it to men.

    Liked by 5 people

    • info says:

      Nonetheless it’s its own task to do what Good we can. While loading all the Macro-events into God’s hands. Just as Israel cried out to God continually until He acted.

      So did Jesus our Lord command us to never cease to cry out to God like the Widow cried out to the unjust judge (Luke 18:1-8).

      If we never ask we don’t receive. Therefore we must cry out to God for Justice.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      deti —

      “Women need to stop teaching their sons anything. Starting when the boys are about 7 or 8, they need to just stop talking in any way, shape, manner or form to their sons about anything.”

      First thought …. Father rule is the default code written on all people’s hearts because that is the line of authority God set up. It is living in a sinful broken world that has resulted in rebellion against this, but a dad, even a frivorced dad, can tell his sons, “You have to respect your mother because God tells children to obey their parents. But she won’t be able to teach you how to be a good man, only what she perceives a good man to be. It is my job to help you with this. She is inadequate for the task.” Something along those lines will plant the seed of truth in the minds of boys that there are aspects of being a man that mom can’t help with. This is how both married and divorced fathers give themselves the best chance of teaching their boys how to be men.

      Second thought … the whole post, and deti’s comment here, is a good summary of the major issues at hand. It has a 1 Kings 19 feel to it. Jezebel wants to kill Elijah and he’s on the run. He’s the last prophet as all the others have been killed. The situation, from a temporal standpoint, has come to a head and Elijah has a prophetic pity party. God has Elijah stand on the side of the mountain he’s holed up on (he’s in a cave) and a fierce wind blows, then an earthquake hits, and then a fire burns, but God is not in any of those. He’s in the whisper that comes next, and in that whisper he tells Elijah what to do, and that there is a remnant of 7,000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal.

      deti may as well be Elijah, because where we are now with marriage in the west is whole societies bowing down to the idol of feminism with even the church suffering from its malignancy. Yet, there is the little whisper from seemingly insignificant corners of internet that shows how God still has reserved a remnant for himself. He always does and this plays out in a historical cycle of human rebellion where we run from God, the situation gets bad, we get the natural consequences of our bad behavior, and then we repent. Rinse. Repeat.

      For men who want to be married, the deck is stacked against you, but it’s not impossible to find a wife. You may have to work on purging the feminism out of a woman before she becomes marriage material, but it can be done if you have an iron will. From personal experience, it’s much, much easier to do this while dating than when married. The consequences of walking away get bigger when married and then exponentially bigger if kids are involved.

      Liked by 1 person

    • locustsplease says:

      After the RP, someone said, “Women do not give advice that benefits men. It may help both men and women, but it always benefits women.” Single moms raise boys to help them or other women. It’s disgusting when you see it. They couldn’t care less if these guys lived or died, if they are not female slaves. My mother hits me with this crap. She has told me many times to date overweight, unattractive, single moms my age, and not from the pool of attractive young women who show interest in me and will definitely not be single. She wants me to be some subprime woman’s retirement plan, and whether that’s actually going to help me or not does not enter the equation.

      I told her once that I do not take advice from women and I described why, and she still does it.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Elspeth says:

    I actually agree that sons are best left in the hands of their fathers for the lion’s share of their life training. No argument from me on that. I actually have an example from today that illustrates how even that train has left the station.

    In a mixed company group, a delightful man whose wife I know made a joke that he often alludes to in various forms. He said, “When a man opens his mouth he’s wrong, and when he closes it he’s wrong.” It wasn’t sarcastic, because he does it quite often, seemingly in full sincerity. I often playfully dissent, but today I said nothing. One of my friends looked at me, and said, “[Els]…?”, as if she were expecting me to implore him once again to stop doing that. He has young adult sons, after all. Several.

    I responded, “You know, not today. Y’all think I’m crazy already, so we’ll chalk it up to the fact that I’m married to an old school black dude and we do things differently. It works for us.” This was received with much laughter, and I went home.

    My point? Not sure how many GenX and younger Boomer men are up to your challenge. I pray that the tide changes in all the ways you noted, Deti. I do.

    Prayer that all is well with you and yours.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Rock Kitaro says:

    LOL, this essay really drives home the point that “Christian Men Aren’t Attractive.” …but I wonder if it’s more than just being unattractive. More like, “Christian Men put us to shame in a world where we’ve gotten comfortable with the idea that no one should feel shamed for anything.”

    And what you wrote about women who need to “stop calling yourselves Christians”… I think that’s one of the biggest issues. Women are highly susceptible to the herd mentality. And if the Kim Kardashian of your church congregation is calling herself a Christian while actively hooking up with guys and advertising how “fun” her lifestyle is, that influence is going to trickle down.

    Through online dating, I’m very up front about my Christianity. I’ve matched with plenty who “claimed” to be Christian. And when I ask, “If the world says it’s okay to live a certain lifestyle and have parades for it, while the Bible clearly teaches that God sees it as an abomination… which path do you take? What the world says? …or what the Bible says?”

    It’s so sad to see how reluctant ladies are to answer that question. To me, it’s a no-brainer. I choose the Bible. Then, I’d maybe follow up with the answers I did get, of which the most common one was “I don’t feel the need to shove my religion down people’s throats.”

    Honestly, with all the talk about “empowerment” over the past few years. You’d think more ladies would actually be empowered to stand up against popular opinion and mainstream ideologies. But no… All Social Justice has done is made people more dependent on the herd than ever.

    Liked by 6 people

    • thedeti says:

      No one, including women who used to post here, want to talk about the women’s part in all this. No one wants to acknowledge that this isn’t all men’s fault. No one wants to suggest that maybe women should be doing things to improve this situation.

      There’s only so much that men can do about this.

      I think long term, we are going to see a return to a middle ages/feudal type society where most men’s sexual experiences are with prostitutes and the occasional girlfriend. The OASIS series a year ago supports that conclusion. Increasing numbers of men will never marry.

      More and more women will become members of soft harems and, eventually, single mothers. Or, if they marry, they’ll marry one man, have one or two designer kids, and divorce rape those men as soon as they think they can make a go of it alone. Then they’ll head back out to the carousel. Alpha f * x, beta bux, then alpha f * x again.

      Ladies, if this is not a future you want, then start dating, marrying, sexing, and reproducing with these men you claim to want. But, I know they won’t do any of this for all the reasons I’ve stated before.

      Liked by 2 people

      • feeriker says:

        “No one, including women who used to post here, want to talk about the women’s part in all this.”

        Which is exactly why there is no solution to the problem, and thus really no point in even wasting any more time and energy discussing it. If women aren’t going to be called out or held accountable for their role in creating the current disaster, or compelled to help resolve it, then there will be no change. We’re just engaging in a big, pointless, circle jerk.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. joshua4355 says:

    Churches need to Get the hierarchy straight… Get the scripture straight… Start imposing hard Christian sexual morality on women too!

    I’m not pleased to say it, as theologically I think Protestantism from 50 or 75 years ago was the closest to “correct” submission to God, and I think of myself as a Protestant (or at least my version of a Protestant). But people need to just leave modern-day Protestant churches. And leave our western nations too. Go to a second world country that is dominated by Eastern Orthodox Christianity, where women look like women, where women openly assess and label harlots as low-quality women, and look for a wife there.

    Orthodox churches have significant problems too. Being inhospitable and rejecting outsiders is only one. But a “serious” Orthodox Christian women is far more likely than a “serious” Protestant Christian woman to obey God and her husband, in my experience.

    And the RCCs have even worse unscriptural positions than many “Protestant” churches, so I’d advise staying away from them too.

    A man striving to be a Christian man. Not a Protestant. There is a difference. (sad face emoji)

    Liked by 5 people

  10. Lastmod says:

    I really don’t want to say this, but I must.

    The only way this is going to change… really change…

    The culture “in general” is going to have to go through a reset of sorts.

    No, I don’t mean living like the Amish. No, I don’t mean living in a tent or makeshift camp and herding goats and sheep for a living.

    I mean a major financial collapse of sorts, making the past recession look like a bad month for the economy. It will have to get to a point when women and men will have to “trust” each other again to survive and build something and hold it together.

    We can say, “Oh, I have that now!” or “If men just follow Game and read books, and get Red Pilled, then they will have that now!”


    I mean a situation(s) where there will be no other choice. The choice being, “we couple together for better or worse because being alone, with the way things are, will cause much more harm”, and I am not even talking about real SHTF (e.g. a nuclear war, a real pandemic a la Black Death levels, or a Carrington event in which we wake up one day and all our electronics and the like are just useless pieces of plastic…).

    I guess we could say “a return to family/community oriented living” and that kind of thing, but I don’t mean it in a superficial way like now. I mean it in a life or death way. No, we are not living like that or in that now.

    Men will actually have to work together. Christian men will actually have to believe Paul when he said, “all matter in the body” (1 Corinthians 12), and most men will have to understand that they don’t have “all the gifts” or skills, or know-how. (I deal with this in some prepper circles in California… Every guy knows everything. My question for them is, “so why do you need a group?” Ah, yes… the Ego of “I am better than 99% of men” type thing needs someone to compare themselves to.)

    Women will have to experience true love and probably submission for and to a man who can not just provide, but work, be there, be strong (not just physically), and guide and lead… his family… his wife… his children.

    That doesn’t mean “other men can do the work while I watch”. We have ten gazillion “amazing leaders” today, evidently, and still nothing gets done. I deal with this nonsense daily. It’s getting worse, and it’s coming from some men who should know better.

    When men can be looked at, not just for their looks and their ability to create tingles, but what indeed he can do for a woman, then women, some women at least, just might get with the program. This is why I say it will take a major reset of sorts, and I gave one example. I am sure there are others.

    Otherwise, until that day, or until a situation like that comes along (whatever it is), we can still expect marriage to decline. Expect more soft harems. Expect more anger. Expect more Incels. Expect more very anti-social behavior from men not in the top 2% of looks. Expect more frustration. Expect more dysfunctional marriages and relationships when they DO happen. (You guys are always talking crap about the SMP and marriage, but actually, you guys are blessed. At least you have a wife and children, even if it’s a sh!tshow.)

    Men react to women. They do. Always have. Chivalry has NOTHING to do with this. Seen it in college, in grad school, in apartment living, at work to some extent, at the barbershop… Guys are behaving okay when they’re with each other. Then a woman walks in. Egos go up. Suddenly every man has to prove how cool he is, even if she is “meh, okay looking” and has a rotten personality. Just about all men react this way. The ones that don’t are, for some strange reason, viewed as “gay”, or not a “real man” and somehow their prowess and sexuality is brought into question.

    I ramble. If a man today really wants perhaps a half-decent marriage, he probably is going to have to be set-up through church, or through a mutual friend who has an okay or decent marriage… that kind of thing.

    A man TODAY (not in 1965, not in 1984, not in 1993) will have to get set up like this — unless he has great looks… then he can do what he wants and lecture the rest of us. Things have been like this for pretty much the past generation or so.

    Liked by 7 people

    • thedeti says:

      A couple of things and then I’m going away again.

      1) Women aren’t going to be with men because of what those men can do for them. The women of the Ladies’ Manosphere Auxiliary did not get with their men because of what those men could do for them. Those women got with their men because of tingles, plain and simple.

      I agree that the only way most men can get a woman is if women just throw up their hands, pick a guy, grit their teeth, put their heads down, and push through it… and stay with the guy no matter what happens or what he does or doesn’t do. They’ll just have to lie back and think of England, like women did for thousands of years before.

      Men will do what they’ve always done — put up with it, whatever “it” is. Most of them will be doing it alone, or paying prostitutes or sugar babies for momentary relief (witness the OASIS). Most men will never have homes or families. If they do marry, it will be to women who really don’t want them, but who are accepting them because they need financial support and can’t get that support from anyone else. Women will lie, feign attraction and affection, and barely tolerate the sex they “have” to have with these men.

      2) Church is the worst place for men and women to meet each other. That’s how it is now and I don’t see that changing even in a “reset”.

      3) I do agree the best most men will be able to hope for is a halfway decent marriage. Both men will get barely what they need and almost none of what they want. Women have made it VERY clear that without marriage to a top 10% man, they don’t want it.

      4) In a “reset” situation, getting what you need will be good enough. It will have to be — just like it was for thousands of years before men stupidly started asking women what they wanted.

      5) In a situation like Lastmod describes, a “the end of the world as we know it” reset scenario, Game, Red Pill, and the currently constituted manosphere, will have very little effect. Strangely, resets like this have ways of reordering women’s priorities.


      • feeriker says:

        “Women have made it VERY clear that without marriage to a top 10% man, they don’t want it.”

        That includes “Christian” women.

        This of course is enough to make any self-respecting man never want to even consider committing to any given woman. This is also why the maturity of “virtual sex” outlets will only accelerate and gain in popularity as an alternative — even among Christian men.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        I saw this play out recently in micro scale.

        A woman I know in her late 30s, single mom, one kid out of wedlock at 16, then married at 22 to a decent enough boyo with a pretty bad drinking problem. Had a son. Then her husband’s drinking got a lot worse. She left. Spent 13 years on her own, with her son. During those 13 years. her ex turns himself around a bit. He’s quit drinking, and works steadily. Told her she could come back if she wanted to. He is what he’s always been and what he will always be: A working class stiff. Just a regular guy.

        Son turns 19, gets diagnosed bipolar. Son steals his mom’s money and has gone missing. No one knows where he is.

        Her choices are to either live at a homeless shelter or the Salvation Army, or return to the only man who will have her. Or die from exposure or starvation.

        So, this woman, now destitute and unable to earn enough to make a go of it on her own, has returned to her ex husband. She doesn’t have a choice. She’s 44. She has a daughter who’s 27 with her own life – she can’t go there. She has no other family. She has no money. She has no assets. She had no decent job.

        She has no choice now. She has to hope that her once and future husband can stay sober and keep his job. She has no choice but to trust him.

        Or, she can go to the shelter or the Sally. Or die.

        The only way women will get reasonable is to be faced with choices like this.

        Liked by 2 people

    • locustsplease says:

      A man today, to get a good wife, does not need circumstances in his favor. He just needs to be lucky. I know men with 6 pack abs and money who never met a single good woman and are going to die alone. Then I know short, sloppy, never lifted a weight, jello spine scrubs with excellent wives. The illusion is that God spreads the faith through reproduction and the rest of us are not spreading it. But many leave through Christian upbringing and many come from nowhere.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. locustsplease says:

    I am watching the Olympics and I keep seeing the girls and think, “Oh, she’s cute!” Then I think about how much of a testicle kick you would receive for life if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended up attached to one of them. No freaking thank you! These chicks are over there getting feminist merit badges with allegedly 1 million people in a concentration camp!

    Liked by 1 person

  12. catacombresident says:
  13. Pingback: The more things change, the more they stay the same. | Σ Frame

  14. Pingback: A Clarification on Fornication | Σ Frame

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