Straight from the horses’ mouths.
Readership: All;
Note to Readers: I will be very busy with work this semester. So from next week onwards, my posts will be shorter and less frequent.
Women can observe many clear benefits to them in a relationship/marriage, but to most wimmin, a relationship is all about the Feeelz and other materialistic goodies.
- How many have ever considered their own responsibilities, or how they might benefit a man?
- Have they ever considered that God intended women to raise children and help men complete their mission in life?
- Have they realized that if a man doesn’t get any benefit nor satisfaction out of marriage, then he has very little motivation to marry?
In this video, several women who are from either the U.S. or South Africa are posed with several questions about their perceived usefulness to men. Watch their responses.
Asking women what they contribute to a relationship (Length: 8:45)
Notes
One American woman mentions that men and women have different roles. She doesn’t go into any further detail about her ideas of what those roles should be, but I’m sure we would disagree with her, unfortunately.
“Women are more logical, so they don’t get hurt in relationships” she says.
Really?!? There’s some genuine solipsism!
“Women bring softness, love, and care.”
This is the stereotype they would like men to believe. A generalized answer like this is a cop-out.
At the 1:07 mark, they are asked, “Do you like to be appreciated specifically for your femininity?” The American women are caught clueless by this question, but the SA women come back with immediate responses. That says something about American wimmin.
At the 2:12 mark, they are asked, “Do you think it is a man’s role to be the leader in a relationship, or does it work better if both people are equals?” They all dismiss the idea of the man being a leader, with the exception of one SA woman who says it depends on the man’s capabilities. But at the 3:25 mark they are asked, “Do you often find yourself in a relationship where the man leads?” and at 3:40, “Would you ever date a man that you didn’t look up to and admire?” There is a huge cultural difference in their responses. Basically, American women want a superstar who is their “equal”, but SA women are more realistic.
When asked, “If a man finds that the woman in his life is not improving herself, is he right to break up with her?” most women agreed. I can only assume that this is motivated by their desire for the man to be back on the market.
Related
- Σ Frame: Women’s choice to be relevant (2020 February 6)
- Σ Frame: Tinder Translations (2020 July 29)
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This is why we don’t trust women raised in feminist controlled societies, ALL the girls want “equality”. and no I don’t expect christian girls to be any better.
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i didn’t watch the videos, but did read the post or at least skimmed over it.
For thousands of years and up to about the last 100 years, marriage in the West has been about family formation, and rearing and supporting children. That’s pretty much it. Man contributed provision and protection. Woman contributed sex, housework, and child care. It wasnt even about providing a suitable or appropriate place for men and women to have sex, though that’s been routinely talked about and “sold” to men, at least, in Christian communities.
Most women now, including most Christian women, take an “egalitarian” view of relationships and marriage. In short, my sense is that they expect to contribute the same things to a relationship that any man they get into a relationship with is also contributing. Both of them, the same things, in roughly equal or equivalent measure. Most of them tell men they want to be “equal” contributors to relationships, including financially, and continuing to work after marriage.
A major, major complaint among women is that they work full time (usually earning less than their men but increasingly outearning their men) but still do most of the housework and hands on child care. So some of this might need to be talked about in terms of what women expect not to contribute, which would be “less housework and less child care”. And we all know how that bodes for relationships when women expect men to “do more chores”.
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In short, women’s attitude now to what they bring to relationships is that they see themselves as “equals” to men, in every relevant way, including traditionally masculine functions like provision, protection, leadership, major decisionmaking, long range planning; and determining individual and family mission and vision.
Women see themselves as equals of men and equal to men in these arenas of relationship formation and operation. Women see themselves as equally capable of deciding these things as men are, and that they should have a completely equal say in self determination and family determination, in everything, from minutiae to major decisions.
Of course, where this breaks down is that relationships just don’t work this way in the real world. Someone has to be the tie breaker, the “leader”, or have the final say. Someone has to micromanage minutiae, and someone has to lay out plans for where they’ll be in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. How couples work this out is up to them of course. But I suspect that a lot of the attitudes of “rough equality in everything or as close to equal as we can possibly get” is borne of inexperience and immaturity because, as i said, relationships just don’t work like this over the short or long term, and someone has to take on primary responsibility for overall leadership, and someone else has to micromanage minutiae. The question becomes who is best suited to which tasks, which has also been discussed in the men’s sphere at great length.
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At 7.30 or so the hot blonde was talking about herself, contradicting what she said earlier about wanting an equal relationship.
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So the genius chick who said that “Women are just awesome! We’re awesome!”, is also the one who said that women are more logical. Hmm, when I compare my 40+ years of research results to hers (~ 5 years), I see quite a discrepancy. My findings are that:
— Bitches be crazy, with all bitches either meeting or exceeding the “minimum for crazy” standard by at least 100%.
— Bitches are completely clueless about how crazy they be.
— It is impossible to uncrazy these bitches.
Thank you for having me.
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This chick represents the stereotypical American bimbo-slore in the eyes of non-Americans. I’ve gotten looks of shocked disbelief from these people when I not only don’t dispute the stereotype, but tell them that it’s even worse than what they see on the surface.
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Women are logical… Yeah. I think someone watched Mary Poppins too much as a kid.
BTW, has anyone else noticed that old-lady glasses from the nineties are making a comeback? Notice the blonde with the big weird frames? Our moms wore those kinds of glasses just 25 years ago. What’s up with that?
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Glasses are great. When she takes them off it’s like your with a completely different woman. 2 for 1 deal.
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I think the point about women being more logical is actually correct when you listen to her point — it’s contextualized to relationships. Women are much more logical and hard-nosed when it comes to relationships, in general, than men are. Rollo has pointed this out numerous times in his own writings — men are the romantic sex, not women. Women are the pragmatic sex, when it comes to relationships. She’s quite correct that this leads to men getting hurt more in relationships — if you’ve ever compared the way that women recover from relationships to the way that men do (again, speaking generally, there are of course numerous examples in either sex that are contrary to type and behave differently from how their sex generally does), it’s simply the case that women generally leave the relationship emotionally first, move on faster, and re-bond faster, while men tend to get “one-itis” (very rare in women … it happens, but the guy has to be very special and, typically, the woman has lower than average options). Women tend to be much more pragmatic in relationships than idealistic, and this does mean that they get hurt less, because they are less prone to see things in an idealistic way.
This can be confusing to men, because women tend to think emotionally and wear their emotions on their sleeves much more than men do — men tend to think more logically in general. But when it comes to relationships and sex, men’s logic often slides back into second, third or lower rank, whereas with women they remain more or less the same, and so in that specific context, even though they still appear to be outwardly more emotional, because the man has shifted away from his inwardly more logical way of looking at things due to the context, she is actually generally more logical inwardly, and therefore more prone to be less idealistic, and therefore less likely to get really burned.
This is why Rollo has spent a long time trying to teach men to be less idealistic, to see themselves more realistically (and not to misread themselves as being logical in every context, which is a key flaw almost all men share), and actively counter their tendency to romanticize, idealize and therefore get exposed and burned more easily, in relationships, especially when compared to women. I can tell you, you see this all the time with guys in divorces — the guy is crushed by it, and the woman sails on, moves on and so on. This isn’t because the woman is a cold-hearted &^ or a psycho (although a few of them actually are), but it’s because she was always more pragmatic about the relationship, and the man was more idealistic, so he gets more burned.
Now, in case you think I am letting women off the hook here, I am not. Women are, as the video points out, rather well aware that they are more pragmatic in relationships than men are, but they are quite happy with this because it gives them power. That’s rather nasty in itself when you think about it. While women are not responsible for men’s approach, they are certainly responsible for exploiting it to their benefit, or for acting in ways that take advantage of it, while secretly laughing at the guy for being so gullible, so simple, so inexperienced and so idealistic. Women don’t get a pass for being like that — it’s exploitative and it’s wrong. But it’s still true that they can get away with doing that precisely because men are not more logical in the relationship context than women are, and — here’s the kicker — almost all men are impervious to changing this because almost all men are dead-to-rights, 100%-sure convinced that they are much more logical, and that therefore this is a zero, non-issue for them. They are convinced of this because, in general, men are so — but that all changes in the context sex/relationships for men, and the sad fact is that very few men realize this and actively counter it in themselves to overcome it.
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@ Novaseeker,
I see what you’re saying, and I agree with your main points. But I hesitate to call that logic, at least not purely rational, aristotelian logic. I struggle to come up with a better description, but I might say that women are more gifted in the area of “emotional logistics” which could be defined as it’s own unique logic, for lack of a better term. That is, they are acutely aware of their wants, needs, and limitations, and they are intuitively aware of what they need to do to get what they want out of life. This leads to the appearance of cold-hearted pragmatism and selfishness. Overall, I see men and women as each having a unique sphere of power and influence, but definitely not “equal”. I could go for “equally matched”, but that is a different argument altogether.
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Completely and totally disagree with you, even when contextualized to relationships. Rollo is correct in saying men are romantic, and women are pragmatic, but that hardly means women are more logical. Women routinely destroy relationships they should try to protect and maintain even from a purely pragmatic perspective. Before marriage, they’ll go in and out of sexually intimate relationships with multiple men, despite the horrible risks involved. If they do marry, they often divorce their husband, and leave herself and the kids without a father in the home. None of that is any sense pragmatic or logical.
You’re latching onto the fact that women are far more evil, manipulative, and cold-hearted than they ever admit to, and then saying that makes them more logical. No, it doesn’t. It proves they are willing to do whatever they perceive to be practically advantageous no matter how obviously counterproductive it is, which is exactly what people who aren’t logical would do.
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Women get away with a lot more than they should because so many men refuse to see them as evil, manipulative and cold hearted.
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Note that the Black South African woman said that she didn’t think men contributed anything meaningful at all to a relationship. I guess that least ONE thing some African women have in common with Black American women. God help any man foolish enough to attempt a longterm relationship with this woman.
Another thing we glean from this video is that female cogdis is universal. Note that ALL of these women saw men as protectors and providers, even as they considered themselves men’s equals.
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All the fluff we hear about “equality” is just hamster talk. Just judging by this video and other things I’ve seen, I don’t even think women really believe it. It’s just the PC thing to say. Actually, most women see themselves as being superior to men — more independent, more powerful, and even more “logical”. Logic has it’s limits in practicality and discernment, and it seems that women are more familiar with the limitations of logic and therefore rely on other approaches. I am beginning to wonder, how much of their cognitive dissonance is actually a poor attempt to describe and deal with the various paradoxes in life.
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@ Freeriker:
I think black American women have had a lot of help as it regards viewing their partners as non-contributors to their relationships in any meaningful way. It’s one of those chicken/egg questions that I have no answer to. But when the community (men, women, old and young) look to its women as the backbone, providers, and strength of the family and warriors in “the struggle”, it’s not long before the women understandably see themselves as self-sufficient.
However, this is not a universal truth, and I don’t mean that in a NABWALT kind of way. A lot of it has to do with family upbringing. Those of us who grew up with a fairly traditional, patriarchal family structure understand quite clearly the invaluable leadership a man brings to the relationship. Unfortunately, 70% of black women of GenX and younger have no frame of reference for that. All most of them know is a world where if a woman wants to make something happen, she has to take the lead. That doesn’t bode well for respecting men in the relationship.
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Elspeth — this is true and is, in fact, a broader issue than the black community. See this article: https://mereorthodoxy.com/evangelicals-matrilineal/
It’s a change that has taken place throughout American culture. It’s most visually obvious in the black community, but it’s present everywhere in more camouflage, but with the same impact.
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The article shared by Novaseeker cites a research paper. It makes a cold case argument that American society and the converged church are indeed matrilineal. For those of us who followed Dalrock, this is old news.
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It is true, and men have been leaving in droves, mostly because they’re finding themselves kicked out of their families and told that their input at churches is unimportant and sexist. Most men can’t fight against it, because as we’ve established, there is no bloc, political or otherwise, standing for the interests of “men” as a group. There is no bloc of “men”. Most men have to find individual solutions, and for most, the individual solution is to withdraw from people, situations, and institutions in which those men are clearly unwelcome and unwanted.
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thedeti,
It has been dawning on me that many Protestant Christian Leaders do not trust the faithful men in the pews. The men who bring their families to church and pay the leaders generous salaries with their giving.
— They take the women’s side in any marriage problems and resulting divorces.
— They do not believe that it is possible for women to be rebellious.
— They do not believe that young men in their church will be good providers as husbands.
— Thus they, and the Christian fathers they influence, encourage the young women to pursue college, grad school and a well paying career, “just in case”.
— They believe white Christians are shallow, simplistic, and insensitive in deciding whom to vote for.
See this video of Pastor’s Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman disrespecting white Christian voters.
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Bee
Yes. Dalrock has laid this out quite well in his almost 10 years of blogging. Most pastors and Christian leaders really do believe that women do not sin, women do not rebel, women do not lie about sex or marriage problems, that men are the sole cause of all marriage problems, and that if there are marriage problems, it is solely the man’s job to fix them.
We are tired of it. We are tired of being told we’re sexist pigs merely for wanting our wives to do what they promised us they’d do – “To have and to hold”. We are tired of being held up as chauvinists merely because we want and expect our wives to keep their promises. We are tired of being told we are jerks for wanting and needing things from our relationships, and expecting our wives to provide those things that they said they’d provide. We are tired of being crapped on and abused because we have standards for the women in our lives and we expect women to meet those standards.
We’re tired of being abused from the pulpit. We’re tired of being told we’re jerks merely because we disagree with the “woman good, man bad” narrative constantly foisted on us from pulpits.
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Women are required to adhere to standards too. Women have expectations, standards and obligations too. Women “sin and fall short of the glory of God”, too.
When a woman becomes a wife, SHE takes vows TOO. She has obligations and standards to meet too. She has obligations to her husband and a husband is perfectly within his rights to expect her to meet those obligations faithfully and consistently. And we are tired of Christian leaders on the national and local levels giving women a pass on those things.
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@ Deti, “we are tired…” is an understatement.
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Painfully obvious to anyone who has spent even a few months in one of these congregations. To put it in crass (but absolutely accurate) terms, most pastors, especially of evangelical denominations, suffer from a “small penis” complex that prevents them from ever trusting or delegating anything of importance to other men in the congregation. “There’s room for only one bull in this herd!”
They’re spot on about the “shallow and simplistic” part, especially, again, in reference to evangelical congregations. A great deal of the contempt and condescension is well-earned. Spending too long amongst those people is a good way to ensure one’s IQ drops down into the double digits.
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Men are romantic? Funny, this goes strongly against what he is saying about “the rational male” or being “objective”.
Women are pragmatic? As in what? Temperament? In relationships? Pragmaticism in thought?
This is an odd paradox. Most of you think we have zero free will, agency, choice.. and when it comes to these matters, its “all ingrained / animal brain / evolution, but you believe the earth was created in a few days.
Most people in relationships are pretty stupid and act on their own selfish needs and whims… IF… they can get away with it. 😉 That applies pretty much to men and women both.
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