A Revised Understanding of Game

The core essence of Game is charisma, discernment, and setting boundaries.

In a previous post on Σ Frame, On the Spiritual Significance and Social Value of Game (2019 November 3), I made the point that Game is not necessarily an anti-Christian behavior.  It’s only anti-Christian when it’s used to seduce women for illicit sex and STR’s.  On the contrary, Charismatic Gamesmanship may very well be the main thing that keeps a rocky marriage together during a rough patch, and it’s very common for marriages to be rough during the first five years.

Granted, this type of Game is different from typical PUA Game.  We might call it ‘Father Game’, or ‘Young Husband Game’.  The motives are to protect the girl’s vulnerabilities of her immature naïvety from any Satanic attacks of indignant dissatisfaction and the plunder of PUA types.  Some future discussion may be necessary to further define ‘Shepherd Game’.

Looking Glass wisely writes [emphasis mine],

“The crux is of the issue that Cane [Caldo] was having is that Feminism, Chivalry, and Game act as semi-understandable “poles” within the discussion frame, which radically limits the ability to hone into the problem.  This is why the undermining of language has been so important, as the inability to properly define a topic makes it fiendishly difficult to explain the problems with it.  For the Christian, we are to *be* different, which should result in us acting different.  This entire long discussion has simply been sorting through the definition issue, thus opening our eyes to the truth.

To further this discussion, here I want to point out something that has been roundly neglected in the definitions and discussions of Game.

The backbone of solid Game is charisma combined with a steady maintenance of healthy socio-spiritual boundaries (AKA “detachment”).  Everything else about Game can be summed up as a technique, a strategy, or an asset.

If a man doesn’t have charisma and boundaries, but he’s relying on assets and pressing hard on Game techniques and strategies, then he’s little more than a dancing monkey, as many have complained about how they feel when attempting to practice Game.

There has been some argument that Game only works for certain men, but not others.  The real difference between men who are proficient at Game, and those who are lousy at it, is that the former are those men who have charisma and who are mindful of their personal boundaries, whereas the latter are those who do not.  The question of whether a man can develop Game largely depends on whether he has, or can develop charisma and become aware of metaphysical boundaries.  The answer to this question is not so clear, because discernment is required to maintain one’s boundaries, and charisma is a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now, many readers might be wondering, if charisma is a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit, then why is it that all these “charismatic” Game practitioners are using their “spiritual gift” to sin?  If the result is fungible fornication, then how can it be a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit?  The answer is simply because God gives spiritual gifts to one man and not to another as He sees fit.  It has nothing to do with Christianity, strength of faith, or belief in God.  From what I can tell, having charisma isn’t connected to being a Christian any more than having blue eyes or having money in the bank is connected to being an American citizen.

I’m sure this news will come as a very uncomfortable truth for many Christian men.  However, you can always pray for more discernment and more charisma.  As the scriptures say,

“If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.”

James 1:5 (ESV)

It should be noted that discernment is a prerequisite for wisdom.  So if you pray for wisdom, then your discernment will grow.

Here, I should caution men who pray for wisdom (discernment) and charisma.  Once your discernment increases, you’ll suddenly become aware of many things that went on all around you which you were never aware of in the past.  You’ll begin to sense what I call “vibes”, and you’ll detect IOI’s from more women.  As a result, the temptation you’ll face will also be much stronger.  So beware, it will be a shocker!

It will become unnecessary, even irrelevant, for a man to dig any deeper into the science of attraction if he can develop discernment, wisdom, and charisma, and learn to mind his boundaries.


About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Boundaries, Charisma, Discernment, Wisdom, Fundamental Frame, Game, Game Theory, Male Power, Personal Presentation, SMV/MMV. Bookmark the permalink.

26 Responses to A Revised Understanding of Game

  1. Novaseeker says:

    A very good and true summary, I think.

    There are disagreements about the degree to which one who lacks some degree of natural discernment (i.e., sign reading) and charisma can develop them intentionally later in life (even if that “later in life” is in ones 20s or 30s), with some opinion stating that this is, in fact, extremely hard to do unless one has at least some “positive reference experiences” during one’s formative years (i.e., between 15 and 25, or even 15 and 20) to form the basis for a committed, intentional improvement. Someone who has a general lack (starting from zero) may not be able to do it, and I think this is where some of the disconnect between various voices discussing the general topic has its origin.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      @ Novaseeker,
      Yes, I’m not sure if charisma can be learned from scratch or not. But I do think that whatever charisma a man has can be developed in a way that makes a more dynamic social impact. From what I have seen in the PUA industry and the secular Manosphere, the focus is entirely pragmatic and there is hardly any emphasis on developing charisma. For all the talk of “making one’s self a better man”, charisma has been largely overlooked.

      Liked by 1 person

      • No one talks about charisma because the term is an anachronism to people today.

        Chicks wanna fuck hawt guys who give’ em the tingles. Dudes wanna fuck chicks who pass the boner test.

        Liked by 3 people

      • AngloSaxon says:

        The takeaway for men – be hot.

        Also don’t be the dork who asks for permission to touch her every 5 seconds lol

        Liked by 2 people

      • lastmod says:

        If you are “hot” AngloSaxon, you don’t need permission.


      • Novaseeker says:

        Jack –

        Yes, I agree with you. If you have at least some baseline charisma, you have something to work with and can certainly improve it. People do not question this in other contexts (like learning how to network with work colleagues more effectively or what have you), but when it comes to women it’s all offensive to people because anything around sex and mating is a red zone for many people I think — things that are totally fine to improve upon in other areas are either frowned upon in this area or denied their efficacy.

        PUA and manosphere placed this under the “Game” heading, but Game was always more targeted towards pick-up and was, as you say, more practical or “targeted” for a specific use, than of general and broad use, as in being a generally charismatic person. It was about developing tools for picking up women in social settings that were intensely competitive meet markets, and which dominated public meeting of the opposite sex in the late 90s and early 00s when game was being developed. Today all of that is completely anachronistic and out of date, because phone apps are how the young meet today, almost exclusively, and phone apps rule out pick-up game more or less completely — the growth areas today are more text game and, for guys who are getting interest on phone apps, in-person game that is tailored to the setting, which will tend to be more like what used to be called “day game” because the setting won’t typically be a bar or club as it was for the origins of “Game”, but in some cases where the meet is more clearly short term sexual in nature, it may be closer to that. In general, Game, as discussed from say 1998-2010 is now more or less irrelevant, due to phone apps taking over, and because of that it behooves young men to focus a lot more on their appearance (looksmaxing) and then overall charisma so as to be broadly more charismatic, rather than working on the specific toolset of the now outdated “Game”.

        Charisma is broader than “Game” was, and requires one to cultivate a charismatic way of being. Some of the Game guys did this — some of them would say things like “Game is about more than women, you can use it in other areas of life”, but it wasn’t clear whether they were talking about becoming more charismatic in general or whether they were instead talking about becoming for pragmatically tactical in one’s approach to other social relationships and interactions. In any case, actual charisma is broader, and not dependent on “applications” — it’s just a way that is how you generally interact with the world around you. It is “always on”, as it were, and it can be improved with practice, just like public speaking can be, until it becomes second nature.

        Liked by 1 person

      • lastmod says:

        Neil Strauss who wrote “The Game” how to book(s) later on when he “renounced” Game said “you have to have something to begin with” and he didn’t say what that was. Strauss was an excellent writer for “Rolling Stone” for many years and had met many, many famous musicans and bands…..and working for Rolling Stone got him into places most would never get into. He was talented, and worked for an organization that tilted in his favor. I suppose “Game” helped him……but did it??????????????

        My answer is no. All he needed was indeed a better haircut, some style and poise instruction and THAT opened it up. That information has been in Playboy, GQ, and Esquire since the 1950’s and even before that.

        You could say “well, lastmod, you see….he had charisma, and that was the something he obviously was wanting to say”

        My answer is no. He had a talent (writing) in an established career, working for a magazine that gave access to many famous people (status) all it took was a good clean up of his personal habits and style. He didn’t have to “learn” charisma or “the secret language of women” he just needed a push to get him there. He already had it.

        The problem still is that Game is still being toyed and modified everytime it comes against a wall proving its abysmal failure and how it indeed caters to women. Game is indeed supplicating to what women want and expect in a man, or a f*ck buddy or even a date.

        Again, in any “game” (from computer to board, to cards, to word games…….) there are rules. This “game” has only rules for men of how to behave, act, what to say, how to be, what to look like, what kind of attituide, and what kind of nonsense talk to tell everyone who doesn’t buy it (think Amway sales). The women????? No rules for them, they dictate…on a whim at times, change the rules and men react, slavishly to whatever is done mid-turn.

        That’s not a game. That’s really looking pathetic……and if men are frozen out for deciding not to play this never ending, shifting stream of terms, the billion variations of it (all dictated by women) well, it makes me wonder who is really losing, and winning.

        How does one win this game? Sex with a woman? Sex with fifty? Marriage? Getting her pregnant? So many dates in so much time?

        Most of the winners evidently waste all their time lecturing how much of loser men are for not “gaming” as much as they have. It’s not a game.


  2. lastmod says:

    “charisma is a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit”

    Not in the bible I have read.


    • Jack says:

      @ Lastmod,
      I’m open to reproof. Does your Bible explain the origins or significance of charisma?


      • thedeti says:

        I think Jason is right here. I think we need to distinguish between “charism” (gifts of the holy spirit) and “charisma” (“compelling attractiveness”). There’s also “gifts” (supernatural, from the Spirit, the Spirit gives them to you) and “Talents” (natural, you’re born with it, it’s innate).

        “Charisma” isn’t a spiritual gift from the Holy Spirit; if it were, not everyone could have or develop it. Charisma (“compelling attractiveness”) is a character trait that can be developed. I think it can be natural. I think it can be a talent. I think most men can develop some of it. Some men have more than others. Some men can develop a lot of charisma. But if “charisma” were only a gift of the Holy Spirit, it would be quite cruel of God to give it only to some and deprive others of it.

        But when we talk about spiritual gifts, those are “charisms”. The gifts of the Holy Spirit have been traditionally described as “charisms” (from the greek for “gift”).

        Charism is NOT the same as charisma.

        Gifts are not the same as talents.


      • thedeti says:


        A Holy Spirit gift – you either have it or you don’t. God either gave it to you or He didn’t. Every believer gets at least one gift. God can and will take away your gift if you do not use it. God will prohibit you from using your gift if you don’t use it as He intends. God can take away one gift and give you another; or he can give you more than one gift. Gifts are as He wills and intends.

        A talent – you can have a whole lot, some, or none. Some have more than others. Some have a great deal; some have none. Your talents are innate and have nothing to do with your belief status. God gave you your talents, but He will not necessarily take them away from you if you don’t believe on Him.


      • Jack says:

        @ Deti,
        Are you saying that charisma is a talent, not a gift?


      • thedeti says:


        In the very strict sense of the word and as you’re using it here, “charisma” (the ability to attract and hold the interest of women; male sexual attractiveness) is a natural talent that can be developed; not a gift of the Holy Spirit.


  3. thedeti says:

    Something else i wanted to bring up – when we talk about discernment, are you talking about the spiritual gift of discernment (which is “discerning spirits”; the gift of special and deep understanding what is of God and what is not, :”rightly dividing the word of Truth”)?

    Or are you talking about natural, cognitive discernment (the ability to look past what appears to be so and getting to what actually is; critical thinking; inductive and deductive reasoning)?

    In this community it’s very important to choose our words carefully here. Because plenty of men can do well with women and Game, and they are not believers, and do not have any spiritual gifts, much less the gift of discernment. Plenty of believers can do well with women and Game, and they don’t have the gift of discernment. They can, however, do well with algorithms and think critically and “figure things out”.


    • Novaseeker says:

      I was using it in terms of discerning women’s behaviors and IOIs and so on — not in a spiritual sense at all. Many men struggle in “reading” women, because they lack social discernment in general, and in particular when it comes to women — like discerning when a woman is showing interest in you or not. That’s what I was talking about, not spiritual discernment a la the NT.

      Liked by 3 people

  4. lastmod says:

    Jack…..I just remember reading in the NT about spirtual gifts, and “charisma” was not one of them. Helps, teaching, matyrdom, discernment, prphecy and the like were mentioned……I think it was about seven or eight….but “charisma” was not one of them. Am I “misinterpeting” what the holy ghost “really meant” or was I reading the wrong translation (KJV). As to your reply to me about my bible “explaining” the origins of Charisma…….I will say “cheap shot” by you. Perhaps correct to bring up by you……….yet, your statement “charisma is a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit” well, really isn’t listed, and to then ask another question by me really…..well, isn’t cool.


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