A Snapshot of some abortion related issues and other interesting observations and conjectures.
Readership: All;
Theme: Abortion
Length: 1,900 words
Reading Time: 10 minutes
Faustian Slip Reveals All
Repealing Roe v. Wade lifted a veil for all to see the proponents’ true colors.
Sometimes, idolaters can be quite frank, although it may not be their express intentions to do so.
In this video clip, one female protester gets honest in her efforts to derail the speaker’s diatribe on sin and hәll.
She shouts, “I want c0ck! I want sex! I want to come! I want to orgasm!”
At its root, the maxim, “Girls just wanna have fun”, reveals women’s true motivation for demanding abortion and supporting Roe v. Wade. “Fun” is a euphemism for constant, continual, convenient, free-for-all carousel riding with absolutely no responsibilities nor shame whatsoever.
In another video clip of the same Dobbs protest at Washington D.C. on June 24, here we see Faustians proclaim their true master.
Note that the female speaker is giving them a fire and brimstone call to repentance, warning them against “going to hәll”, but what she fails to grasp is that her audience is already living in hәll and enjoying it. They shouldn’t have arranged a female to deliver that kind of sermon to this crowd, but it does match the unclean context in a Jonathan Edwardsian way — churchian hoes lecturing secular hoes about digging their graves. It’s disgusting and hilarious at the same time.
Another interesting thing about these clips is the wide array of personality types. Among the men, there’s an atheist (chanting), several male feminists of various sorts (some chads, some clueless betas, some neckbeards, and some smug chubbies), two Mormons, and a few Tyrones. Among the women, there’s a couple püssy hatters (one chanting), a hefty termagant in a loud yellow t-shirt, a party girl, a sorority girl, a sweet coquette wearing a green bandanna (exclaiming “Hail Satan!”), and a very traditional looking woman in a black and white sundress.
H/T: Patriactionary: Demoniacs (2022-6-24)
The Fun must Necessarily be Expediently Convenient
“It’s not just that they murder their own babies. It’s that they do it because convenience.”
Gunner Q2: A deep dive into the socialist hive (2022-6-24)
Yes, overturning Roe v. Wade eviscerates the god of materialistic convenience from the equation. This, I believe, is the biggest sting of all to its proponents. No more cuffing on the fly without a care in the world. No more cheap, easy, quick, secret abortions that no one will ever know about. Now an Artemisian must take time off work, travel to Storyville, and pay $$$ as an out-of-stater who didn’t pay into the local tax coffer. And as the number of states that ban abortion increase, wimmin in some areas of the country (i.e. the deep South) will need to travel a very long distance indeed to appear for their date with the grim reaper, and they will feel quite embarrassingly out of place in Clowntown.
OTOH, if a woman doesn’t go to the extra trouble that is now necessary to terminate a pregnancy, she’ll find that that her life instantly becomes much less fun and convenient. She’ll be forced to grow up and assume responsibility for herself and a child. She’ll also find it more difficult to pursue a degree, hold down a “career”, and the clincher – No Mo Hoeing!
Your body your choice!
How did Roe v. Wade change the population?
Under Oscar’s post, No Mo Roe (2022-6-27), LastMod wrote,
“So I couldn’t care less if abortion is legal or not because it doesn’t make much difference. Legislation didn’t stop abortion from happening pre 1973. Abortion didn’t suddenly take off and become more popular after the pro-abortion marches in 1994.”
Let’s take a look at some data and then decide whether it made any difference or not.
Let’s put this data into perspective. I’ve collected some data from several sources (listed at the post’s end) and put together a graph that will make your stomach churn — The Percent of Pregnancies Aborted.
As can be seen in the graph, as soon as abortion was legalized in 1973, and the numbers started to be recorded, 18.13% of pregnancies ended in abortion. Within 7 years, this quickly ramped up to an all-time high of 31.12% by 1980. The rate hovered around 30% all throughout the 80s. 1990 concluded the debauchery of the eighties with an all-time high of 1,608,600 abortions that year — a grand finale of 29.06% of pregnancies. 1992 had an all-time high number of pregnancies, 5,510,229, with 27.75% going in the trashcan.
Moreover, for 12 years (1978-1990), nearly 1 out of every 3 babies were scuttled! When I first saw this data, it made me nauseous, which is probably why Guttmacher et al. will never depict the data this way.
Births and abortions didn’t begin to decrease until 1993-94. Ironically, 1993-94 was the same time that the pro-abortion marches swept the nation. After this, the abortion rate began a steady decline, reaching an all-time low (since 1973) of 18% (862,320) in 2017. Since then, it has started increasing again.
In conclusion, LastMod’s statement is dead wrong. Passing Roe v. Wade was a strong incentive for women to use abortion as a form of birth control. And as I will describe next, it also cleaned out the gene pool.
I have a pet theory about why the number of abortions dropped off precipitously in 1993-94. Around this time, the generation born after Roe v. Wade (the latter two-thirds of Gen X) was coming of age – a generation that was missing many of its cohorts due to the easy accessibility of abortion. Those cohorts who were missing were the terminated offspring of mothers who aborted them. The theory is that the decrease in abortions after 1993-94 is because those Boomer women who were willing to abort their babies didn’t produce Gen X offspring who were similar to their ancestors in this respect. Over a generation (or two), this thinned out the number of women who were willing to abort their babies and grandbabies. In effect, women having an abortion-prone nature have self-selectedly removed their genes from the gene pool over the last 49 years, but especially during the first 20 years, as the last 29 years was from a population descended from stock that had already been picked through.
In scientific terminology, what I have described is a natural (or artificial?) selection resulting in a genetic drift. The bottleneck event is selectively removing ~30% of the birth population every year for 12 years and more than ~20% for another 37 years.
How will the repeal of Roe v. Wade change the SMP/MMP?
The new ruling introduces a catastrophic fracture in the Feminist Life Script and mixes up women’s choices of preferred mating strategies.
The new ruling puts more pressure on women to reassess their life choices concerning extramarital sex possibly resulting in a pregnancy. It leaves them five options.
- Get married.
- Embrace celibacy.
- Have children out of wedlock.
- Move to states where abortion is legal.*
- Procure abortions in a state where abortion is legal.*
* Additions from Thedeti.
According to the Feminine Dilemma, women must work out a very complicated decision of whether to join with a man in a long term relationship, or else pursue an independent lifestyle. This new ruling forces a sharp urgency for women to make this decision early in life. It also imposes a strong pressure on women to abandon the Alpha Fux Beta Bux strategy and to get married.
Oh noes! No Mo Roe, No Mo Hoe!
How will the repeal of Roe v. Wade change the population in the future?
The future depends largely on what percentage of women can get their act together and secure a man for marriage, and quickly.
- If this percentage is high, then we can expect early marriages to become more common and the birth rate to go up.
- If this percentage is low, we can expect more out of wedlock births.
On the latter possibility, there are already a large number of out of wedlock births. This number has hovered around 40% since 2007, and will serve as a baseline for future analysis. Of these, there is a number of lower income single mothers intentionally having 2 or more children out of wedlock in order to game the court and/or the welfare system. This demographic serves as a buffer against any drastic changes in the Feminine Dilemma ratios. It will be interesting to see how the number of women doing this might change under the new ruling. We might speculate that the number of women playing this game will increase by default, since abortion is no longer easily accessible. Again, this depends on what percentage of women can get their honeycraft game on and lock down a man in marriage. If a sizeable number of women can’t land a man, then we can expect the dolearchy to grow in size and power, possibly until socialism has been attained.
In conclusion, I will speculate that the biggest effect Repealing Roe v. Wade will have on the future population is a sharp increase in the number of minority and working class births (i.e. Blacks). These groups are less likely to use contraception and are less likely to travel out of state to procure an abortion, due to the costs and the time off work it would require.
Only time will tell.
The Introduction and the Repeal of Roe v. Wade both happened on a Jubilee?
This is incredible! It just so happens that 2021-9-7 to 2022-9-26 (year 5782 on the Jewish calendar) is a Sabbatical year. The previous Sabbatical year was in 1972-73, and we know what happened on 1973-1-22.
The Jubilee (Hebrew: יובל yōḇel; Yiddish: yoyvl) is the year at the end of seven cycles of shmita (Sabbatical years) and, according to biblical regulations, had a special impact on the ownership and management of land in the Land of Israel. According to Leviticus 25, Hebrew slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven, and the mercies of God would be particularly manifest.
I’m not at all familiar with the Jewish calendar, and I found some sources that put the years of Jubilee along 1960-2009, so I could be wrong about this. But if this is true, it seems like more than a coincidence. Knowledgeable readers are welcome to either confirm or correct this information.
Sources
- MacroTrends: United States Birth Rate
- MacroTrends: United States Population
- United Nations: Fertility Data
- Christian Life Resources: U.S. Abortion Statistics by year: 1973-current (2021-1-19)
- The Guttmacher Institute: Long-Term Decline in US Abortions Reverses, Showing Rising Need for Abortion as Supreme Court Is Poised to Overturn Roe v. Wade (2022-6-15)
- Pew Research: What the data says about abortion in the U.S. (2022-6-24)
Related
- Σ Frame: Abortion and Birth Control
- Gunner Q2: A deep dive into the socialist hive (2022-6-24)
- Amerika (Brett Stevens): Holy Mackerel, the Confederacy Just Won (2022-6-24)
- Practical Eschatology: Roe v. Wade Overturned—Rioting to Ensue (2022-6-24)
- The Orthosphere (Kristor): Moloch Will Want His Regular Meals: Cave! (2022-6-25)
- PA Pundits: Life Wins: In Overturning Roe Versus Wade, Supreme Court Issues Victory For Rule Of Law (2022-6-25)
- Adam Piggott: Civil War part II (2022-6-25)
- Antemodernist: Pro-Life Weakness (2022-6-25)
- The Other McCain: A Mostly Peaceful Insurrection: Deranged Pro-Abortion Mob Storms AZ Capitol (2022-6-25)
- Stage in the Sky: Why Good Men Can’t Stay Silent – The Roe v. Wade Decision (2022-6-25)
- Truth and Tolerance: Night of Rage? (2022-6-25)
- Truth and Tolerance: Thoughts on Dobbs (2022-6-26)
- Σ Frame (Oscar): No Mo Roe (2022-6-27)
- Natsab: Torah Response to Roe v. Wade (2022-6-28)
ArchAngel
caterpillar345
Soup Sandwich
Lexet Blog
Novaseeker
Oscar
Red Pill Apostle
Jack
thedeti
Σ Frame 
Women getting their “honeycraft game on” may be complicated by the state of the current day’s male’s marriageableness. I have no idea what that looks like in the broader sociological setting, but I can tell you what I’ve experienced in the micro setting from the men’s work I’ve been involved in the last five years. The marriageableness of the under 40 males, occurs as very problematic to me.
Granted, being older I tend to naturally compare them to my generation when it was at the height of it’s marrying days, so there is some bias in there I’m sure; HOWEVER, even with that said, I wonder about them, I really do. Even if “Miss Honeycraft” comes a knocking for marriage instead of CC’ing, are the younger men even ready to get married? Many seem “programmed” (I’m being polite here with my word choice) for a lifestyle different than marriage. Many do not have the economic resources necessary for marriage; plus the economy they are in is VERY different than the economy I was in as a young adult. It’s going to take something to boost them (1) Psychologically for marriage, and (2) Resource-wise (maybe more parental support for young, newly married couples starting out?).
So is this, “If a sizeable number of women can’t land a man, then we can expect the dolearchy to grow in size and power, possibly until socialism has been attained,” the probable, almost certain future?
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Dalrock wrote about this 10 years ago in The weakened signal (2012-1-8).
And again, 3 years ago in The weakened signal hits home (2019-9-9).
I can’t say much more, except that I agree with you. This is because men are increasingly walking away from a game they can’t even afford the entry fee to, much less win at.
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The question then becomes: are we going to help them, or just criticize and shame them?
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RPB helps men. I have some suggestions below.
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It doesn’t have to be that way. Get young men listening to Dave Ramsey as early as possible. Watch “Borrowed Future” with them.
When you’re debt free, you can start building wealth, and the earlier you start, the more it accumulates.
And you don’t need a college degree to make good money. The average lineman makes $83k.
Many places are advertising over $100k for experienced linemen. Starting salaries are about $55k before overtime. Lineman training takes 15 weeks.
That means an 18-year-old kid can graduate high school, get trained as a lineman, and start making $55k before he turns 19.
In just a few years, he can have a nice truck, some hefty investments, and a fat down payment on a house.
No one shows kids the math this way.
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If being a lineman isn’t your thing, because being even 20 feet up appears much higher than you would expect, the local trade school has many skilled trade options. For under $3000 around me, a high school kid can get a certificate as a plumber or HVAC tech and will make 60k+ before they turn 22 with no school loans. This is enough to support a family where I live if you are very conservative.
If the wife works for a few years before starting to have kids, giving him enough time to let him build his reputation, a clientele that likes him and give him good contacts in his industry he can make six figures from his late 20’s until he decides not to. If he invests early and often and avoids debt, he and his wife are millionaires in their 40s.
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Two of my boys are academically inclined. Two are not. The oldest is not. He enlisted in the Army against my wishes (I’m reaping that which I sowed), but he’s been asking a lot about post-Army careers, so we’ve been researching trades.
He worked for a mechanic, and a landscaper before the Army, and I taught him what I could, so he’s pretty handy, and hard working. And he’s debt free, and has been investing a good portion of his Army salary.
As long as he avoids doing something stupid, like getting a 304 pregnant, he’ll be fine.
It’s true that there was more opportunity in the past, but there’s still a lot of opportunity out there. The doom and gloom are not warranted.
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But there still needs to be an incentive for kids to go to college and invest the money, time and energy to study the sciences, engineering, math, computers, etc. because it is these students who eventually design the electric grid and the equipment the lineman uses to repair and maintain the electric system. The same can be said for plumbers, electricians, etc. Thus, without these college grads only the status quo can be maintained by the trades.
Electrical engineering graduates will want $150K if linemen get paid $85K, otherwise why should they invest their time and money and lose those earnings while in college?
Where is the incentive?
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Joe,
First, many of the trade guys know the design as well as the engineers and often fix the original design shortcomings because they actually work with what exists. My great uncle has a high school diploma and a couple dozen patents to his name. It’s the mind with some apprenticeship, not the diploma on the wall that matters (but good luck telling high school guidance counselors that).
Second, lots of men today prefer working in an office instead of sweating important anatomical parts off working in a plant. The EE demanding $150k is going to get replaced by a guy with the same degree from a country that only requires him to make 75k to live really well. The nature of office work is such that you can do it practically anywhere. The nature of building/fixing things is that you have to be there to use your hands. As long as more men want to work in office settings than factory settings this will hold true.
Eventually, the labor market will sort out the supply and demand of labor in the various fields. It may take a while though, given the bias towards getting a BA/BS vs. working in a trade.
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Joe,
$85k is for experienced linemen. Starting salaries for linemen are about $55k.
The average salary for electrical engineers is $117k.
Starting salaries for electrical engineers are about $69k. Plus, engineers don’t have to deal with the risks and hardships linemen deal with.
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RPA,
I have an ME BS, and an MS in Geological Engineering. When I worked in the oil industry, a pipe fitter helped me fix a design on a separator skid. Good tradies are worth their weight in gold.
As of April, I work for a company that manufacturers parts for the electrical grid.
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Oscar,
My little brother is a good example of a man who will never be an engineer but could be a big help to one. He has a learning disability specific to reading comprehension. When he gets to work with his hands and see parts and designs, he shines. He can take a pile of parts and assemble a diesel engine in a couple hours that cranks the first time, or tell you exactly why an automotive part design is good or bad for the intended application and what can be done to improve it. But ask him to read a text book and write what he learned and he’ll have to work really, really hard to make that happen.
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Guys, a lot of great input you provided. Yes, I agree with you that the trades are the way to go for many (most?) young men these days. I’d say college only if it’s a STEM or “hard” Business field (accounting, finance), and only attended without accruing a mountain of school loan debt. One other area for young men, if they have the knack for it, is a sales career with a good company. My son is in sales and he makes good money for a 31 year old man. He’s married and has his own house, and he did all that without a college degree. Has good perks and benefits too.
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The trades have always been the way to go for most young men. Government intervention, and bad advice artificially inflated the demand for college degrees, but I think that’s already changing.
The shortage of tradies means that tradies are finally getting paid what they’re worth. Hopefully the shift towards the trades won’t decrease their wages.
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I have thoughts on Roe’s repeal, and on those who still counsel despair, claiming it won’t do any good and nothing will change, but to list those all here would be a giant wall of text, so I’ve posted some of it on my blog…
Okrahead: Against Despair (2022-6-28)
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I highly recommend the post that okrahead linked to above.
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Damn, that was good stuff, bro. I second Sharkly.
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Re: the bottleneck theory. Why is it that blacks have both the highest abortion rates AND the highest out of wedlock birth rates? How does the bottleneck effect account for this?
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Leftists don’t have the guts to tell them that maybe if they changed their lifestyles a bit that it would go better for them and their communities.
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I mean black women seem to get pregnant a lot more. They also have much higher rates of dyzygotic twinning (twice that of whites and quadruple that of East Asians).
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They probably simply have more living children as a result of more abortion to compensate. The black live birth rate didn’t actually change compared to before Roe.
So the WN who believe that Americans will be demographically swamped by Blacks is wrong.
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okrahead – The concept of a “moral hazard” accounts for why both abortions and out of wedlock births are highest amongst blacks when it is couple with cultural factors. Basically, when someone else bears the consequences for risks that are taken those who bear no consequences are more apt to engage in the risky behavior.
Abortion was, in the minds of many, the get out of jail free card that let them avoid the realities of an active sex life outside of marriage. When the natural result of sex did happen, some could not go through with killing their baby and kept it. Others saw the government provided economic incentive to have more children for the benefits, i.e. the federal government is the defacto father. But it starts with feeling the freedom to act without consequence to yourself and that is what abortion provided for a large portion of the population.
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Option 4: Procure abortions in a state where abortion is legal.
Option 5: Move to states where abortion is legal.
Dobbs does not do any such thing to women. Returning abortion policy to the states is not going to alter women’s sexual and relational choices in any appreciable way.
— The United States of 2022 is less Christian, less bound by precepts and pretenses to Christian morality, and less bound to sexual norms, than was the US of 1970.
— The United States of 2022 is more electronically interconnected than the US of 1970. There is far, far more access to information as to where to obtain any sorts of services you would want, including abortion services. It’s easier to get that information, it’s easier to act on it, and it’s easier to set up and obtain the services even if you must travel a distance.
— I’m tired of hearing it’s such a hardship for poor women to travel to get abortions. That’s a load of crap. The United States of 2022 has easier and more affordable travel than ever. Even the most impoverished person has an apartment, a flat screen TV, and a cell phone with wifi. If she can afford that, she can afford an abortion and she can afford the travel.
— Don’t tell me women can’t afford abortions. Virtue signaling corporations are already lining up to announce they’ll offer all expense paid abortion services for employees — including travel, incidentals, and paid time off. Liberal charities are announcing they’ll do the same thing on a needs basis. So if you’re a poor woman, just go to one of these charities and tell them you need an abortion, and they’ll set you up with a plane ticket to an abortion provider state, hotel reservations, and meal vouchers. Hell, they’ll probably even spring for the Uber fare.
— Women have their sexual freedom. Women fought long and hard for the right to have sex like men, and they are NOT going to give it up. The only thing that’s going to change that is men en masse telling women “no” and (gasp — I’m going to say it) repeal the 19th Amendment. Yes, I said it — the only thing that’s going to change this is to repeal women’s right to vote. And that is NEVER, EVER going to happen. Ever. We can’t get men to tell women “no” on any massive scale.
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“Women fought long and hard for the right to have sex like ALPHA men.”
Fixed it for you.
Betcha money NovaSeeker would be as blackpilled on this as you are deti.
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Cam, I don’t even know if this is blackpilled. It’s just that I’ve been around long enough and I’ve seen how women are, and how men are. Everyone who thinks that this is somehow going to make women come to their senses and start dating beta bux guys is living in fantasyland. This won’t change women’s sexual or relational behaviors. It just won’t.
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The demographic you are describing is Gen X and Millennials. Kindly remember, “dating” (as these generations think of it) is now a thing of the past.
Σ Frame (Lexet): Film Review: The Dating Project (2022-2-11)
Σ Frame (NovaSeeker): The New Red Pill for Online Dating (2022-2-21)
The real change is going to happen with youngsters who are now coming of age, especially those with no prior sexual history. They will be strongly pressured to take sex more seriously, and to marry or “make things work out” somehow.
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thedeti,
I think your perspective is way off. You’re seeing a positive development and trying to find the negative in it. Yes evil is still growing, but the supreme court ruling, which you thought wouldn’t happen, is a big step in the right direction, even if you are too negatively inclined to see it that way. It will have a massive effect, even though you seem to be straining to claim it will do nothing. Look at the chart in the OP. Abortion skyrocketed after it was forced on the states by the federal supreme court, discrediting your arguments about how that approval means nothing,
Also the USA is the current cultural leader of the world, and what happens here inspires folks elsewhere. Here is one concrete example already:
Teller Report: Spain: anti-abortion protesters against abortion law reform (2022-6-26)
Hoes are generally lazy and irresponsible, they don’t usually plan ahead or attempt things that are difficult. If Abortion requires a lot more planning and logistical effort, some percentage of these hoes will just opt to keep their babies rather than bother with all the extra trouble involved in killing her own offspring. That’s an obvious fact, you know it, and no amount of your pissing and moaning will negate that fact.
Also the “Liberal charities” that you mention have limited resources. The more they spend sending irresponsible Hoes on trips, the less money they have left to push socialism, h0m0sexuality, ped0philia, gender-insanity, and so on. When the dust settles, either they’ll tire of funding the irresponsibility of hoes, or they’ll have less funds left for the other evils that they would have funded. Like yourself, they may talk big now about how evil will march on undeterred, however, anybody but a great fool can see that the Serpent just took a blow to the head. It’s a shame that you can’t recognize a bit of positive progress when it happens right before your eyes.
You seem to have a defeatist attitude. An enslaved attitude, like the children of Israel who were delivered from the armies of Egypt yet still remained too afraid to attack the Canaanites. You seemingly imagine our enemies to be undefeatable, that their resources are infinite, that resistance is futile. LOL! God is on my side! Oh ye of little faith!
“Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.” ~ C. S. Lewis
“It is better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand days as a lamb.” ~ Roman Proverb
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They’ll do so only if it benefits them in some way, like through welfare money or through anchoring themselves to the men who impregnated them.
You can shame me all you want, I don’t care. I live in reality, and the reality is that women are already doing this when it benefits them. Most of the time, these women are having these children because those children represent income streams from the baby daddy or from government.
I don’t have a defeatist attitude; I have a realist attitude. I understand politics, law, and human nature. Dobbs won’t really change much in terms of realities on the ground.
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All the heads exploding, wailing from, and inconsolable grief of the left indicate just how important Roe was to them. We know those key hills leftists will die on based on how hard they attack and how much they whine/yell/protest. Sharkly is right. Overturning Roe is massive, both culturally and for the federalist system of governance.
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It looks like you just answered your own previous faulty reasoning. We already have such Welfare in place.
Thanks! Although I clearly wasn’t waiting for your permission. LOL! Cowardly behavior and attitudes are something we need to rid ourselves of in order to raise up men who will fight for every inch of ground they can take back from the devil.
Thedeti says:
LOL I’m trying to figure out if thedeti is growing ignorant or is just becoming stubborn in his despair. FWIW, the ground is shifting like lightning in my state. Kansas has always been an abortion battleground, and we already have a state constitutional amendment on the next ballot to empower our Right-leaning state legislature to possibly outlaw abortion, or most abortions.
How is that nothing changing on the ground? Neighboring Oklahoma and Texas are ahead of us already in that regard. I have heard that many Hispanic immigrants are anti-abortion. The Lefty’s might want to close our border now, or at least stop them from voting. LOL!
What proof can you offer me that “Dobbs won’t really change much”? I’ve already linked to two immediate changes, here in my home state, and clear on the opposite side of the world. No doubt I could find news of further advances to link to every day of the year. This was a monumental decision to override a horrible federal overreach and decades of court precedent. How small minded of you to negate the obvious growing impact this is going to have. It ain’t the second coming, but it definitely is a victory for the forces of righteousness. Leftys are screaming at the sky again! That should be music to your ears, thedeti.
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It won’t, but it will shift the incentives. We should mock their idols. And desecrate their idols.
And it will make them demoralized when the “God’s” of those idols aren’t able to fight back.
Morale is one of the steps to victory.
And don’t confuse Defeatism with Realism. Realism can involve solutions. Defeatism doesn’t. If you make the excuse of Realism to justify inaction and giving up, then you are a Defeatist lying to yourself about being a Realist.
All Defeatists comfort themselves by calling themselves “Realist” or being “Realistic”.
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Your comment above is not accurate. The constitutional amendment on the next ballot (August 2) was three years in the making and is unrelated to Dobbs.
It is the result of a 2019 Kansas Supreme Court decision that the state constitution confers the right to an abortion, striking down a measure to ban dilation and evacuation procedures. The decision angered conservatives, and so lawmakers voted in 2021 to put a constitutional amendment before voters. The amendment would confirm that the Kansas constitution does not confer the right to an abortion. It was placed on the ballot at the same time as the August 2 primary election.
Thus, the constitutional amendment and the Dobbs decision were coincidental.
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Jack wrote:
Curious, isn’t it, how quickly dating has gone from something people did before marriage, in order to get married, to something they now do after marriage (‘date nights’).
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This. They travel all. the. time. The number of truly poor women of American citizenship is statistically insignificant. My daddy told me once (when I made some comment as a young woman about people on fixed incomes): “Girl, I can tell you this from years of observation. People always find the money to do the things they really want to do. It almost never fails. It’s only when they need to do something that their income is so-called fixed.” My years of maturing and observation have proven him right. For the 1000th time.
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Agreed. Poor women are constantly traveling. I know part time nail techs planning trips to Miami and Cabo. I know hairdressers who vacation a week in Mexico every year.
How the h3ll can these women afford plane tickets and resort hotel rooms? Where do they get the money? I’m convinced most of them are sugar babies.
Don’t tell me these women can’t afford abortions. Don’t tell me they can’t travel. Don’t tell me they don’t have the money. That’s utter CRAP. If they can vacation in sunny subtropical locales on what a part time nail tech makes, they can afford their abortions.
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Sugar babies or massively in debt.
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The cost of an abortion may actually decrease from current levels as blue states compete for the pent-up demand from the red states. Thus, abortions may become even more affordable than are currently.
I read somewhere, while casually searching the web, that in one blue state (Rhode Island?) there is a proposal for the state to pay for abortions or heavily subsidize abortions. Of course there is opposition to having tax dollars pay for abortions so the proposal may not pass, but it’s on the table for discussion. They also stated that the cost of an abortion (I assume typical, non-complicated) is in the range of $600 to $800.
There should be no doubt the blue states will try to keep abortions affordable and easily accessible.
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I laugh at the term “fixed income” because it is utterly meaningless. EVERYBODY lives on a “fixed income” unless they’re in some extremely lucrative (and probably unlawful) line of work that brings in an endless stream of cash, or they’re one of those types who can’t hold a steady job to save their life.
Your father was right. People will ALWAYS come up with a way to pay for what they WANT, no matter how impossibly expensive, but will cry “Poor!” whenever faced with having to pay for some necessity that they think should be given to them for free.
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Disagree. Dobbs will have the following effects:
— Women will take greater and more effective control over their own contraceptive efforts. They’ll get their own birth control methods and use them more effectively.
— More and more women, especially in the underclass, will have more children and will burden the system more.
— More and more men will exercise the “financial abortion” route — they will simply refuse to support their offspring despite pressure, court orders, and wage garnishments.
— Women will concentrate their efforts on the most attractive men even more intensely and fervently than they do now. Their rationale will be “If I’m risking pregnancy by having sex with a man, I’m going to make sure the sex, and the man, are worth it. He has to be the absolute most attractive man I can find anywhere and absolutely nothing less will do.”
This is not going to make women pick beta buxes and be happy with it. This will have the precise opposite effect particularly when women are outperforming men professionally. The main reason women even ARE outperforming men professionally is PRECISELY BECAUSE they don’t want to have to marry, have sex with, or bear the children of, those icky betas they’re constantly complaining about. Did we all forget The Feminine Mystique? We had an entire sexual revolution that shook this country to its core because women were sick and tired of marrying and having sex with beta schlubs they aren’t sexually attracted to. The entire purpose of the sexual revolution was getting women into the work force to make their own money precisely so they would not have to do any of this. If anyone thinks women are going to give this up voluntarily just because they will have to drive a couple hundred miles to get an abortion, well… um, no. No they will not.
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I would also like for everyone to remember that I specifically proposed that women should be showing IOIs to, and approaching, these nice, kind, good, beta bux men that women say they want. When I proposed that, everyone told me that was never going to work because it would be women initiating and “taking responsibility” for “fixing” the SMP.
Well, hell. If women aren’t going to give nice kind good beta bux men a chance when abortion was a constitutional right, they sure as hell won’t give them a chance when they’ll “have no choice” but to marry and have sex with these men they claim to want but really don’t.
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They have an alpha filter and a beta filter. Remember, what they want is their own alphabux. They sometimes abort an alpha fetus because dad won’t help raise it and they’ll abort an icky beta fetus too.
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Also remember that in 2022 there’s betacucks to help her raise unaborted alpha spawn.
Hey, maybe the saying should be “alphafux, betacux.”
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We never learned about the deceit of it because our pastors are too afraid to discuss. Blissfully ignorant, thinking we have no options because lies are baked into the cultural and biblical foundations of our hearts and minds.
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Note the chart on abortions and fertility rate. Note in particular the fertility rate (green line).
We’ve been hovering around 2 live births per woman from about 1990 to 2008. Then after 2008 it’s dippled below 2, to consistently less than 2. That’s not even replacement. For there to be population growth, there needs to be an average of 2.1 live births per woman. We had that for most of the country’s history. Sure, some women had one or 2 kids. But a lot of others were having 5 or 6 kids, with at least 4 of them making it to adulthood.
How are we as a nation growing? Illegal immigration.
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And legal.
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Correct. I’m a digit in that math. My parents brought two of my siblings and me here. My younger brother was born here.
My sister married an American man and had 4 boys. I married an American woman and we had 3 boys and 2 girls, and adopted 1 boy and 4 girls.
So… you’re welcome.
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The interesting thing about the fertility rate is that it dipped down below the replacement rate (2.1) for the first time in history just a few years after the Birth Control pill was introduced around 1960 (not shown in the graph). Then it went up slightly at the end of the 80s, but was still below replacement levels. Then it dipped down again when cohabitation and single motherhood became a thing around 2007-08.
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This isn’t true, and if it does become true, it will not be because of Dobbs or returning abortion policy to states.
A sizable portion of states will have first trimester abortion on demand. Women wanting abortions will simply travel to those states to get abortions. The only obstacle women have is time off from “work” and scraping the money together for gas and procedure fees. They’ll get the money from somewhere, be it a work benefit, medical insurance, savings, friends, the putative baby daddy, or charity. If they want it bad enough, they’ll get the money. If they can afford apartments, flat screen TVs, and the latest smartphone, they can afford abortions.
The issue is not money, it’s not distance, and it’s not travel. The issue is they want it given to them, for free, with no inconvenience and no consequence.
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This is the true of everything women want, not just abortion.
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And therein lies the unconscionable rub (from the perspective of lazy selfish wimminz). For many women, having to take time off work, travel some distance, and pay any significant amount of money (especially if they have to get the money from an employer, friends, or relatives) is a formidable inconvenience, and not one without social and moral consequences. Only Strong Independent Wimmin™ types would go through with it.
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Deti, seriously, you’re a highly intelligent man. Which part of the word “incremental” do you not understand?
We’re going to change those laws, state by state, incrementally, over the next few decades, just like we did with gun laws.
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Oscar – We’ll be able to thank Obama’s authoritarian overreach for making a majority of states’ legislatures and county governments go red when we look back and see how we’ve come. Now that Roe is no longer “established law” mandatory ultrasounds can be made law without the constitutional challenge. I remember the first time I saw one of my sons on a 3D ultrasound. It was like looking at a grayscale image of his little face and body the way God designed him. There’s a reason the abortion fanatics wanted any semblance of laws requiring ultrasounds before killing the baby and it is because seeing that little life on the screen changes mother’s minds.
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Every grain of sand in the gears of the enemy slows him down. Every cent not spent on Disney contributes to its demise.
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No we won’t. People care more about the abortion issue than they do about guns. They understand the “nuances” of the issue more than they do guns. They care about it more, because women are more than 1/2 of the entire electorate, and they vote, and they vote as a bloc on this issue. They care about it more because not everyone owns guns or even wants to; but everyone has sex or wants to, and most women want total control over their reproductive capacity. They will fight hammer and tongs for it; and men will cave and give it to them.
Even conservative women who claim to be against abortion will still demand even limited abortion for rape/incest/mother’s life exceptions, and it will go from there. Even conservative women who fervently oppose abortion will agitate for exceptions.
These will be political bloodbaths in each state. A few states will be “no abortion, ever”. A few states will be murdering week old babies. Most states will have some form of abortion.
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Just like Roe v. Wade would never be overturned.
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I don’t think the video clip chants reveal a “Faustian Slip” or anything very meaningful. It’s just a reaction to get under the speaker’s skin or in her head to make her uncomfortable. Whatever the speaker says, just echo back the opposite only louder. It’s like a big game. At the end of the day, they go home and feel good because they had a good time.
This protest is very similar to the reaction of fans at professional sporting events, especially professionally wrestling. There fans can scream, insult, threaten, flip the bird knowing that nothing will happen. At worse, if they really go over the top security will escort them out of the venue which hardly if ever happens. The fans go home and feel they got their money’s worth.
And I doubt the female protester who shouts, “I want c0ck! I want sex! I want to come! I want to orgasm!” would give the men at the protest the time of day. They are invisible to her. She is alone. The men who are shouting in support or standing by are there hoping to get “lucky” that day; nothing more.
It’s just a circus.
Notice too the people in the background. They seem to be walking by not paying any attention or on a bicycle riding by completely oblivious to all the commotion. They don’t care.
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Yeah. I think the “Hail Satan” and the “I want c0ck” screamers are simply being intentionally provocative.
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I agree with the above statements, however, what is said is not entirely meaningless. People with overwhelming emotions will express themselves in speech, and what they say emanates from their inner heart.
More verses here.
Men should learn to be acutely aware of these things, especially when vetting women.
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Satanic 304s want more than just the rooster. If that was all they wanted, they’d get their tubes tied and go ride to their hearts’ content.
Nah. They want to sacrifice their children to their false god.
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There’s a new type of fetish out there called “Breeding”. Both guys and gals get off on the possibility of getting her pregnant. The fetish doesn’t really work if either sex’s tubes are tied.
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Only if those children don’t represent income — only if they believe they can’t get money from a baby daddy or from government to support those children.
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I know quite a few single mothers. Almost every. single. one. works a full time job. I’m trying to think right now of one who works in retail or restaurant work, and I can’t. They work for hospitals, schools, etc. Most have degrees. As a matter of fact, most of the black ones have at least an AA, usually a Bachelors, and the one I can think of who doesn’t have any higher education is white, as is the father of her children.
I can think of one of these women who works at a car dealership, which I suppose is hospitality work of a sort. But most work at places where they make a much more decent living than they could ever make getting a welfare check. Of course, EITC is a welfare payment, and darn near every spring, they head of to the Dominican, Jamaica, Bahamas, etc. I don’t know for sure about all of them, but most have had at least one abortion, and not one of them has more than two children. Not one of them.
The template of the welfare queen everyone heard about in the 80s is long gone. She’s not a thing anymore; not enough for anyone to assert that women -including lower class women- are going to start having more babies because the government is going to keep them housed and fed. That template died with the welfare reform that Clinton signed in the 90s.
I believe abortions are going to decrease significantly in red states. I think that a lot of “poor” red state women are going to hop a cheap Spirit Airlines flight to a blue state and get abortions, and abortions will increase markedly in blue states. I also think a fair number of women will wake up and just get an IUD or some other device implanted to prevent pregnancy.
Gen Z is already having significantly less sex than Gen Xers. Our generation could never have endured the level of celibacy this generation is living with, LOL. This notion that today’s 20-somethings are going at it the way the GenX or even the Millennials were is way off base from where I sit. As fewer and fewer go off to college (enrollment is sinking like a stone), there will be even less rampant promiscuity.
None of what I assert is a claim that this generation of 20-somethings is morally superior, by the way. This failure to pair off is just another iteration of our culture’s sexual dysfunction.
The great news about Roe is that there will be fewer aborted babies. When something is illegal, you get less of it. This is statistical fact. Okay, people are still going to be having illicit sex.
The point of Dobbs is that far fewer babies are ripped apart in the womb. This. Is. A. Good. Thing. Even if the only result is fewer murdered babies, and women don’t change a thing about their behavior, fewer murdered babies is something to celebrate.
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Thank. you. for. this. awesome. comment! 😀
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It is not only this. Even if no baby was saved by Dobbs and no woman changed her behavior, it is a good thing to abolish an evil law, a law that made evil mandatory. Even if nothing else changed.
In addition, reversing a “progressive” change goes against the inevitability of left-wing change, which is one of the cornerstones of the left.
In addition, Dobbs may have influence in other laws, not only in USA but in the world. In addition, stopping making abortion a right is a sign of sanity and a message delivered to all society and all the world.
So there are levels and levels of good things with Dobbs. Of course, this does not solve the abortion problem but it is a big step in the good direction.
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Gen Z is already having significantly less sex than Gen Xers. Our generation could never have endured the level of celibacy this generation is living with, LOL. This notion that today’s 20-somethings are going at it the way the GenX or even the Millennials were is way off base from where I sit.
You and I have our disagreements, and this is one of them. You just aren’t paying attention, or you aren’t looking in the right places. From what I see, my children’s generation is having more sex and using more drugs. Girls learning how to perform fellatio at 13 in exchange for weed or vape paraphernalia; top 20% boys getting oral in school bathrooms – If you aren’t seeing this, you’re not paying attention. Bottom 80% of boys languish in no-attention hell.
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From what I understand, the bottom 80% of boys and bottom 40% of girls aren’t having heterosexual sex. I made up the numbers but it’s something like that. It could be 60-30 or 50-25. Despite higher celibacy in both sexes, the sexual marketplace is very skewed, consistent with redpill theory. If I were Gen Z and an average guy, I wouldn’t marry.
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There’s a bad side to all of this that I’ve not seen noted elsewhere. Abortion is statistically a liberal thing. They take a disproportionate loss through abortion, and yet we still have tons of new liberals every generation. That’s a sad thing to think about.
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Next step, completely destroy federally funded public education.
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My father went to a public one room schoolhouse, and later got college degrees in physics and radio. I believe the public education he got was pretty good. I have a few of his old school books, and they would be deemed horribly offensive to today’s woke wankers. I don’t think public education has to be destroyed, perhaps just opened up to even competition with private schools through vouchers, so people can vote with their feet and tax dollars.
I think the sickness in our schools is a symptom of the godlessness in our society and our teaching colleges. Perhaps it is easier and quicker just to destroy the public schools than to reform them, but the concept of public education is a good one so long as the schools are committed to providing the public with sound teaching that uplifts what is excellent for society.
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Classical Education is the way:
Infogalactic: Classical education movement
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Yes, info. I agree. Our kids are in a classical hybrid school. We love it.
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@Elspeth
Sounds good.
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Well, here you go:
Salon: School’s out forever: Arizona moves “to kill public education” with new universal voucher law (2022-7-1)
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CatacombResident – To stop “tons of new liberals every generation”, end the federal subsidization of student loans. When universities can’t get fat on the debt of students because the feds guarantee the payments, it forces colleges to actually provide value so kids can afford to pay back the loans they take if they can get loans at all. People tend to be much more frugal spending hard earned money than easy come, easy go money.
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That’s good, but the indoctrination starts in elementary school. Christians need to get their kids out of government indoctrination centers. Churches need to start home school co-ops and private school funds.
Don’t wait for government action.
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This article by Matt Vespa is a great example of God playing chess while all we see is checkers.
Townhall: NYT: Roe v. Wade Got Shredded Because Dems Dropped the Ball in These Key Races (2022-6-29)
The Obama power overreach of 12-14 years ago incentivized conservatives to work at the state and local level. From the article:
Where is the abortion debate headed? That’s right, back to the states. If over time, we see the continued polarization of our population, with liberals clustering around metropolitan areas in blue states that allow abortion and conservatives holding most everywhere else, it is feasible that the senate could consistently hold a slight advantage in the senate in the coming decades. Appointing leftist activist judges could get much more difficult to do. As bad as Mitch McConnel is as a squishy politician, he will be remembered as the man who held the line on the Supreme Court with Garland and pushed hundreds of Trump’s constitutionalist judge appointments through. If he didn’t we would have Justice Garland instead of Justice Gorsuch and Roe would still be standing.
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Don’t forget the notorious RBG.
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The move by Trump and McConnel to replace RBG with Barrett was a lesson on how to wield raw political power. It is as if Trump knew the main rule democrats play by is accumulate and utilize power towards your ends and gave them a taste of their own medicine. It was a beautiful thing.
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There is a reason those virtue signaling corporations are so willing to send their women to other states to get the abortion done. It is much less expensive to do this than it is to pay maternity benefits. With those large companies that underwrite their own insurance and are required to include maternity benefits, getting a worker to take them up on an abortion field trip definitely hits the bottom line. Evil? Yes, but there it is. Follow thru to why so many women were induced to work in the first place.
Ya think women will behave better? Allow me a snort and a smirk. Because we’re still going to be left with the problem that most women aren’t going to be attracted to who they can actually get to marry them. Some of that is them … and some of that is the quantity of poor quality men under 35. I’ve seen this up close and it ain’t pretty. Quite the shortage there.
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Heh. I’ll register my hearty agreement. Everyone knows what I think about this. The absolute number one problem here is as it has always been-
Most women are sexually attracted only to men who won’t commit; and can’t get sexually attracted to men who will commit to them.
This has always been a problem, but up to about 70 or so years ago, women just lived with it because marrying a man who was “eh, yeah, sure, OK, I guess so” was better than living with her older brother and his family or working a menial job the rest of her life.
The entire point of the sexual revolution was so that women wouldn’t have to face that choice. The entire point was to reengineer our entire society so that women were brought on fully “equal” economic footing with men, precisely because women did not want to have to depend on men they weren’t sexually attracted to. And more to the point, so that women would not have to have sex with these men or do what these men told them to do. That’s the whole point.
These men could looksmax, moneymax, and max everything, and it still wouldn’t be enough because all men can’t be top 20% men. For today’s crop of women, nothing less than the absolute best will do. If she takes a bottom 80% man, she’ll destroy his life, her life, and the lives of any kids they have.
The best most men will get will be love and sex lives that look like high school — sometimes you get lucky followed by months or years-long dry spells. If I were an unmarried man I’d walk away from this in a heartbeat, just like most men are doing.
Most men do, until the call of a little bit of p_ssy becomes deafening, until a worn out ex carouseler breaks down and lies, “I’m not like that anymore” and “I love you and “I really am intere$ted in you becau$e you $eem $o nice”.
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Thedeti,
I have a minor clarification.
Women still have to make this choice, which is essentially the Feminine Dilemma. The goal of the last two waves of Feminism was to make the once shameful choice acceptable, even preferable.
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Not exactly, Jack.
The sexual revolution gave women a third choice: Have sex with a string of attractive men in any sequence you want, while working a job that almost pays enough to support you and any bastard child(ren) you have, while you make up the difference from men in your family or men you’re having sex with.
Women have demonstrated they vastly prefer this third choice to marrying “eh, ok” or being true spinsters. And why wouldn’t they?
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Sure, women still marry, but they’re mostly marrying men they’re not sexually attracted to. They’re marrying men they can use for resources. When they’re done, they offload and discard those men. The sexual revolution gave women that choice too — mostly because powerful men caved to the threats: “Give us what we want or we will not have sex with you!” and “Give us what we want or we will not primary you, we will not vote for you, and we will destroy your careers. If you do give us what we want, we’ll campaign for you, vote for you, and give you money for reelection. You get power, we get power.”
It’s why men are walking away more and more… They’ve finally figured out they’re being sold a rigged game.
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An unintentionally hopeful article from back in May.
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Oscar,
If this happens with only 2-3 percent of the leftist population in states like GA and NC it’s going to make those states that are really close to 50/50 reliably Republican and that means 2 R senators from each state. This is what I envision with emotional decisions driving migration amongst states to further the political polarization that exists. The difference is that OR, WA, CA, NY, MA, CT, RI are all states are are pretty much slam dunk democrat states. Let all the leftists congregate in those areas and let us have 52-54 senators every election cycle that hold the power to halt the leftward drift of the courts with D presidents and move the courts back towards following original intent with R presidents, at least not ones like the Bushes.
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Oscar’s NBC News article is hilarious! I mean, think of all those people who moved from California to Texas over the past couple years because of the Covid restrictions, crime, high prices, taxes, and living conditions in Clowntown. There were so many that U-Haul ran out of trucks! For a while, conservatives were afraid that Texas would turn blue. Now they want to move back! It’s further confirmation of the insecure hive mentality of liberals. It’s also an example of the longitudinal futility of progressivism.
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By coincidence, Rollo and Fresh and Fit also discussed the percentage of pregnancies aborted. Rollo broke it down by socioeconomic class.
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A lot of the responses to the defeatists here amounts to buck up and join the fight. We won this. On to the next victory.
Just have to ask. How many of the men here fought this battle beyond just voting for Trump?
I’m pro life but I didn’t win this victory. I voted for Trump (more for the border wall than for anything although I am delighting in the Roe appeal).
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Our family has been involved in pro-life activity besides voting for Trump.
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My wife can claim to have done something since she’s more passionate about abortion than I am.
At the end of the day her contribution to this victory is she voted for Trump.
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We haven’t done a whole ton of stuff, but we have donated to and participated in pro-life marches and crisis pregnancy centers. Probably the most significant thing over the past year s that we give generously to our church, which is a big supporter of a very active Christian crisis pregnancy center
I feel a great sense of relief every time they post pictures of babies born to women who came to them for help. And contrary to the pro-abortion screechers, this particular crisis pregnancy clinic is state of the art, with am OB on staff, and provide prenatal care throughout the pregnancies of the women they convince to carry to term.
So it’s not even true what they say about Christians not caring about these babies after they are saved from the brutality of the speculum.
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Baby killers: “You don’t care about kids after they’re born! How many kids have you adopted?”
Me: “Five. How many did you adopt, baby killer?”
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I wish I had voted for Trump in 2016, but I thought he would vote the same as Clinton (I wrote in Cruz). I came to my senses after he was elected. I voted for him in 2020.
We’ve supported pregnancy centers for a couple decades: financially, as a board member (6 yrs.), as a counselor to the guys who came in, and in teaching pro-life reasoning to volunteers (video at my blog).
I’ve blogged on pro-life reasoning and other matters since 2006. When I was on social media I put the blog posts on Twitter and Facebook (Some people un-friended me and I’m sure others hid me just I hid a lot of Leftists).
Before we left the UMC I got my pastor to be more vocal on pro-life things and got him to give out free copies of Randy Alcorn’s “Why Pro-Life?” book to anyone who wanted it (he gave a pro-life sermon that day).
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P.S. And my wife taught classes to the clients about the importance of reading to their kids.
Yeah, I love annihilating that pro-abort argument. They try to pretend that we are inconsistent in being anti-abortion but not funding all their welfare programs. For starters, I point out that we are remarkably consistent: We oppose crushing and dismembering children regardless of location — inside or outside the womb. They are the ones who only want it to be illegal outside the womb. Then I offer the following:
Do you have any idea how much time and money I donate to help the poor or how much I pay in taxes? [Pause] Didn’t think so. So why not stick to the topic, which is whether you should be able to crush and dismember children in the womb? The “pro-lifers don’t care about those outside the womb/haven’t adopted all the children/etc.” canard is false on many levels.
If people were slaughtering toddlers, the elderly, or anyone else the way they do unborn children, I guarantee that we would be protesting that as well. So we are completely consistent in protecting innocent human lives regardless of location and yes, we do care for life post-birth.
You can speak against moral evils all day, every day without being obligated to care for all the victims for life. If mothers were killing toddlers for the same reasons they give for abortions (money, career, love life, pressure from boyfriends/parents, etc.) would you stay quiet? Would you lodge the same criticism at those who spoke against toddler-cide without adopting all the children? Hopefully not. The question is whether the unborn are human beings. They are. At least that’s what all the embryology textbooks say. Just because they are smaller, more dependent, and in a unique environment (formerly synonymous with a safe place) doesn’t mean their lives aren’t worthy of protection. The right to life is a foundational human right.
The premise is false. Countless pro-lifers help women and children before and after birth with their own time and money. Pregnancy Resource Centers offer an array of free services. Planned Parenthood and the like make millions via abortion.
Asking the government to take money by force from others to supposedly help the poor does not qualify as charity on your part.
Do you criticize the American Cancer Society for not working on heart disease? If not, why are you being prideful about your preferred ministry over what others feel called to? That is if you actually do anything for others at all. Using your logic, William Wilberforce didn’t do much because he “only” cared about abolishing the slave trade (not true, of course, as he did more than that, but it shows how ridiculous the pro-abortion argument is).
Unless they want forced abortions, pro-choicers have the same obligations to help that they put on pro-lifers.
The claim that we don’t care about the children outside the womb is demonstrably false. But even if their claim was true, it seems like the greater sin would be to approve of a child being literally crushed and dismembered rather than just not personally feeding someone else’s living child.
Imagine saying something similar to justify keeping slavery legal: “You think slavery is wrong but won’t help them get jobs, etc.”
Your basic reasoning is this: “It is OK to kill the child but not to risk her being impoverished.”
IF you actually help them outside the womb, we could swap labels and dismiss you: “You only help them outside but let them be killed inside.” Still illogical, but that’s what you get.
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EM,
This was my take too in 2016. I grew up watching Trump in the news playing Democrat NJ, NY, and NYC politics. He was a showman even back then and would say and do what he needed to get what he wanted. I thought his change to the Republican party was him saying and doing what he needed to get what he wanted. I didn’t trust him. Then he spent 4 years doing what he could to keep promises he made.
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I personally dislike the reasoning here because, whether you intended this or not, it discounts contributions that people made, including something as simple as voting for candidates that are against infanticide. If a couple hundred thousand voters in the upper Midwest thought their vote didn’t count for all that much and stayed home in 2016, Roe would still be law.
We don’t know how God has chosen to work and how He will work in the future, but we have example after example of seemingly insignificant events being the means He uses to advance His will. Votes matter. $20 donations to anti-infanticide candidates matter. Having a one on one conversation with someone about how innocent life is valuable matters. All this is true even if we don’t connect the dots while here on this earth.
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Sure RPA. Voting is important. The Supreme Court overturned a bad legal decision. Amen.
The heroic chestthumping response to deti realism. I’m just pointing out that most of us contribute a vote every 4 years and that’s about it. Rejecting Jeb Bush won this victory.
We didn’t get an end to illegal immigration; we got more of it. We’ll see if this abortion victory sticks. I hope so.
I agree with Bruce Charlton that our overlords are very evil and very powerful.
If you want my take, I think long term we’ll outbreed them.
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Exactly. And every life counts. One thing I liked about the pregnancy center we were involved in was that the leader didn’t just trot out old favorite stories to win over audiences. Every time I saw her speak she could tell about a recent story where a child’s life had been saved because of pro-lifers sharing their time and money to operate the center.
I’ll share one example of my own: A poor couple came in who thought they had no choice but to abort. He lost his job and was desperate. His two young boys were playing with some toys at the center. I said, “You really love your sons, don’t you?” He beamed with pride and agreed. I looked him in the eyes and said, “You know you have three children, right?” and I glanced over at his wife. It was like the scales came off his eyes. Once he thought of his unborn child that way, abortion was off the table.
And we shared the gospel as well. One girl was pregnant a 2nd time and heard the gospel from a counselor. She exclaimed, “I’ve been waiting for someone to tell me this!” It was a Zaccheus-type moment, where God has them ready to listen.
They don’t all turn out like that, but I trust the process. So yes, every little thing you do for the movement counts, whether Roe was overturned or not. God is sovereign and will use your efforts.
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P.S. The leaders have said for years that even if Roe was overturned (and we thought it probably never would be because of so many false RINO promises) that the services we offered would still be needed. And they were right.
They have stuck to their mission of saving children, helping women, and sharing the gospel. I coined a phrase that the center still uses today: “Saving lives today and for eternity.”
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My wife and I adopted five kids, and we’ve volunteered at crisis pregnancy centers.
Ultimately, God gets the glory, but everyone who did any small part, including voting and praying, gets some of the credit.
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Some of the responses to deti sound like militant bull$h!t posturing.
So a guy like deti will get chastised for realism. Onward Christian soldier to the next victory.
Defeatist deti will fight the way most of you will. He’ll vote for right wing politicians. Now his state level voting might matter.
He’s right. This won’t change female behavior much. 21st century women will figure out how not to have an unwanted alpha or beta spawn (can’t get an alphabux).
What would reverse things is if women were made subordinate to and economically dependent on men.
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I know I’m right. In terms of women’s sexual and relational behavior, this changes nothing. It might even make things worse. It’s been all out war for decades between men and women. Dobbs will just make women double and triple down — no dealings with any men except the absolute best, withholding sex from husbands, fighting with men and everyone else hammer and tongs. This isn’t going to stop until men start telling women ‘no’ and walking away in droves.
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thedeti,
I worked with an experienced product manager years ago that made a great observation regarding slow and steady pain vs abrupt pain. He told me he’d rather have a competitor be underpriced by 30% because the paid of the financial loss for the pricing error would be swift and unmistakable. Sure, he’d lose a large percentage of his clientele to the underpriced competitor for a year or so, but they’d be back after the competitions product fell apart. The pain came swiftly and ended swiftly.
What he thought was much more painful was when a competitor was just underpriced. They were going to lose money, but it would take them years to figure out the error because the data was not definitive in a short period of time. It might take many years to figure it out and in the process he’d be without his target customers for many years until they came back. It was easier for him to manage the short term revenue drop and than the long drawn out pain that came from a multi-year downward trend.
I’m hoping modern women behave much, much worse now. Let’s get to the point where even churchian pastors can’t turn a blind eye. Then there will be no more question about what the problem is and what needs to happen to fix it.
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Hear the fear! LOL! When we lose it gets bad, and when we win it’s even worse! /S
Sure, some screechy bat-sh!t crazy Feminazi fuglies might hyperventilate and holler themselves hoarse, but, for those women who are teachable, the Supreme Court’s change to our laws will likely help them to see things more correctly.
Women aren’t Satan, they’re just defilers who are more easily deceived. (A bit of sweet talk for da ladies. 😉 ) If we remove one huge possible source of deception, our nationwide legalization of abortion, it is quite possible that more young women will view abortion as a morally questionable practice and not as a “woman’s constitutional right” and settled law. Furthermore God is in favor of this reversal, and attaining more of His favor can only help.
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It’s a great victory. I don’t know if it sends a moral message to women. The message is its regulated by the state not the fed. We’ll see. I hope when we’re discussing this in a decade women are noticeably different than they are now. My guess is at best they’ll be divided about 50/50 morally.
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Uh… Yeah. That’s the point. That’s what we’ve all been saying all along. Dobbs makes it possible for us to incrementally restrict, and eventually abolish abortion state by state. Just like we’ve been incrementally restoring 2A rights state by state.
What makes deti a defeatist is that he says that’ll never happen, just like he said Dobbs would never happen.
If we all thought like deti, that would guarantee that 2A rights would never be restored, Dobbs would never happen, and abortion would never be restricted, and definitely never abolished. That’s what makes him a defeatist.
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What makes a person a defeatist is that their attitude guarantees defeat. Deti’s attitude guarantees defeat. By definition, that makes deti a defeatist.
If deti can’t draw any hope from how God used a degenerate New York Democrat like Trump, a swamp creature like McConnell, and a feminist, atheist Jәw like Ginsburg to kill Roe v. Wade during Pride Month, that’s fine.
But don’t get all bent out of shape when others accurately identify him as matching the exact English dictionary definition of a defeatist.
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The blue states want abortion and many red states accept some abortion. Now if you’re arguing we’ll eventually outbreed them I’m doing my part and so are you. Your heroic actions consist in raising 10 godly children IMO.
Even NovaSeeker was blackpilled on the Christian natalist strategy. I’m not.
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Read the Ann Coulter column and tell me what you think. Curious.
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That’s part of my argument, but we didn’t restore 2A rights only by outbreeding the Left. And we’re not done on the 2A front, either.
As for Ann Coulter; she’s ignoring the spiritual component, which is not surprising.
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Also, I never said anything about “heroic”. Wars aren’t won by heroes, although the inspiration heroes provide certainly helps.
Wars are won by many seemingly insignificant people preforming seemingly insignificant actions that compound into significant victories.
I see no reason why spiritual warfare should be any different.
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Oscar, I’m not a huge Ann Coulter fan. I wanted to know what you and others thought of her analysis in the linked article.
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Cameron,
Coulter’s article is mainly statistics analyzed in the environment of Roe as law. What she misses are real pertinent questions to consider.
How many red states allowed abortion in the first trimester because they were trying to restrict abortion as much as they thought they could without having the law tossed out at the Supreme Court because of Roe? How will it go now that they are free to make their own laws without worrying about the feds? We’ll see what happens when a few thousand Sharklys start calling their local state representatives and senators, especially in states that are more conservative and have not yet banned killing kids.
Serious thought from a typical person in our society these days has the depth of a sheet of paper and the breadth of a razor’s edge. Don’t doubt that the “if it’s legal it must be ok” rationalization is assumed by a larger than we’d like to admit swath of our countrymen. Making abortion illegal in states is going to make some people contemplate the termination of life when they never have before.
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Well, I have responded boldly to thedeti, here, and I have also been boldly “militant” in my opposition to abortion. I can’t tell you how many times I went to George Tiller the late term baby killer’s Abortuary in the early to mid nineties to protest, pray, hand out pamphlets, and make sure that the murderers and murderous whores entering to kill men’s children would know that the good people of Kansas stood vehemently against their crimes. I met a lot of old Catholics there, cameron232. I was photographed and put onto a list of people of interest. And there is more, but for the sake of my own liberty, I’m not going to publicize what isn’t public knowledge.
And of course, I’ve always voted against abortion and those who most supported it. I even went on a date with a girl who worked at a Pro-Life crisis pregnancy center. LOL!
Sure, I always could have done more, but somebody else aborted George Tiller. At his murder-loving church, no less. LOL! Are my comments just “bull$h!t posturing” because I’m not the one serving the fifty year sentence for ending his murder spree?
What are you incorrigible excuse-makers gonna say now?
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Sharkly for President!
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I didn’t imagine that noone here ever did anything to protest abortion. The point was we won this fight by voting.
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I prefer: Servant of the LORD God omnipotent. Don’t make me bust out the rod of iron!
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Yeah, but according to deti, we didn’t actually win anything, and if we did it doesn’t matter, and voting in the future won’t change anything, which according to you, is the way “we won this fight”. How do you not see that as defeatism?
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We need to savor the taste of Victory so that we may hunger for more. Then we will be even more motivated to win.
War involves momentum. And when the momentum is on our side. We must continue to push until we win completely.
That includes plenty of fervent prayers of the Heart.
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First of all I don’t approve of her snide remark here about abortion in blue states.
Look at her math. Also she mentions drug induced abortions. I had thought about that but she gives more detail than I could.
If this saves 100,000 or 100 or 1 baby from murder that’s great news, praise God. But will the numbers go down much?
Ann Coulter: ABORT THE MISSION! ABORT! (2022-6-30)
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It’s vintage Coulter. I’d have expected nothing less. “Snide” is mild Coulter.
Her shtick has gotten a bit old, really. Kind of like her. Anyway – my main interest in Dobbs is that I think it’s a constitutionally correct decision. I think Thomas is correct that you can’t overrule Roe and Casey without questioning Griswold and the “zone of privacy” underpinnings for those decisions. That’s where they’re going next. Justice Thomas wants to go there but no one else does, at least not yet.
Take care, all.
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Also, I believe there is something called the “Plan B” pill which is taken up to a few days after unprotected sex. I’m not sure how it works, but it is different from the drug induced abortions administered by a doctor, as mentioned by Ann Coulter.
The problem is not many pharmacies keep it in stock and by the time it is ordered and becomes available may very well be too late for the pill to be effective.
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Abortion is probably the strongest pillar of modern feminism. Without it, women are subject to the consequences of their sexual behavior, consequences that men don’t have to bear.
“It’s unfair that only women have to deal with pregnancy.”
“It’s unfair our bodies lose their youth, fitness, sexiness with pregnancy (and breastfeeding).”
“It’s unfair we are the ones who often give up our career path, or alter it substantially, with pregnancy, and often years of child care.”
“It’s unfair we have to bleed from our genitals every month as our reproductive role.”
“It’s unfair we have a ticking clock to have children that men don’t have.”
“It’s unfair our sexual attractiveness is so tied to our shorter reproductive window.”
Additionally, women instinctively know that being overwhelmed with passion in the moment by a high value man, especially during ovulation, is the peak sexual experience for them. If they know that abortion is available, they can avoid the possible unfair burdens mentioned above if they get unexpectedly pregnant as a result of fully enjoying their sexual opportunities. If abortion is illegal, or very difficult, it throws a wrench in the sexual act and ties them to natures (God’s) shackles, which they so desperately want to shake off. Women’s instinctual/biologic drive, for the modern feminist, must be separated from pregnancy, it’s only fair given the asymmetric consequences. Since (1) birth control isn’t perfect, and (2) female fantasy has an aspect of losing control to a irresistible man, outlawing abortion is like castrating female sexuality, fantasy, desire. It cuts too deep and is essential to defend for the modern feminist.
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“unfair”
This is how junior high kids talk. This isn’t how responsible adults speak.
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We have to deal with unfairnesses…
It’s unfair that men can’t be assured of their paternity without DNA tests.
It’s unfair that men can’t easily get sex.
It’s unfair men have to work for sex.
It’s unfair that men have to pay for and support their children.
It’s unfair that if a man gets a woman pregnant and she won’t let him have a relationship with the child, he still has to support her.
It’s unfair we have to give up parenting time with our children because we have to go to jobs to make money to support those children.
Unfair unfair unfair.
Deal with it.
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The unfairness is a basic biological unfairness, Eve’s curse, the short end of God’s (or mother nature’s) stick. Fighting against it is the essence of feminism.
“We will not be slaves to God’s design! We will not be slaves to biology! We REJECT the reproductive consequences of pursuing and enjoying our fully liberated sexual pleasures.”
The sexual revolution is the feminist revolution at it’s core. They will fight to the death on this.
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Deti and Sharkly,
I deeply respect both of you, and consider you my intellectual betters (I think that means you’re smarter than me.)
I have vetted and voted to the best of my ability to support those who are pro life. In my own home state abortion is now abolished.
I have also protested and been accosted by hostile harridans at the abattoir of Moloch.
I have spoken out in public, including from the pulpit of the church I attend when speaking as a guest preacher, against abortion.
None of this caused abortion to be stopped.
Where it has been stopped, it is because God stopped it.
But He does use us to accomplish His means.
I am not strong enough to stop Moloch. God is strong enough to use the poor broken tool that I am as one of a multitude of similar worn, broken tools to stop Moloch.
I can do nothing.
In Christ I can do anything.
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Christ can do anything. And we get to be his instruments. He defeats the enemy even using the lowliest of pawns with effectiveness.
Showing what a remarkable leader he is.
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Rereading this post a year on, it appears that the pro-abortion marches in 1993-94 would be better described as a victory dance, rather than a social movement demanding a change.
Furthermore, I think most any march or parade could be interpreted in the same way — as a mass public celebration of the issue in question, declaring the cause as righteous, and having no shame nor remorse.
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God in his Wrath removed his Divine protection of America right at the 9/11 ceremony:
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