Sitting on the Fence

Which way do we fall?

Readership: All; Men;
Theme: Redemptive Headship and Masculinity
Length: 1,000 words
Reading Time: 6 minutes

Brother Where Art Thou?

I put Jason (AKA LastMod) on moderation several months ago because most of his mainstay verbiage is trash talking fellow commenters — which I don’t allow.

Another part of the problem is that he’s a terrible writer. Some of his comments are rather insightful, but his ideas gets lost in the bitter garble.  I always have to ponder his comments to get the gist of what he’s trying to say.  Other readers don’t have the same contemplative patience, take offense, and miss his main points.

But sometimes he’ll have something really worthwhile to say.  If I think one of his comments has a good point, I’ll edit it to remove the cynical trash talk and approve it.  Once in a while he’ll leave a very long comment that cuts to the heart of things.  For comments like these, I’ll take the time to rewrite the comment to bring out his main point, and make it presentable, readable, and understandable to the general public.

I think moderating his comments is probably the best way I can let Jason’s voice be heard in a way that other men can understand and find acceptable. I’m also hoping that through this exercise, Jason can learn how to present his ideas in a better way so that he can get some positive resonance instead of constant vitriol, and then feel what it is like to be part of the group.  So far, he has never complained about being on moderation or having his comments totally reedited. I hope it’s because he sees that he is being heard.

Jason’s Problems are Rather Common

From picking through Jason’s comments, I’ve gathered that his biggest problem is that he is somewhat like Glover’s “Nice Guy™”, and being this way under the Blue Pill delusion for most of his life has led him to despair and to despise men, especially men who have a blustering charisma and irrational faith – the same kinds of men who do well with women.

I believe he despises men for many profound reasons.

All of this has resulted in anger, bitterness, confusion, distrust, frustration, and carrying a negative impression of others when no offense is intended.

I can understand Jason’s position because I was once a little bit like him in the past.  I too was disappointed with women and the posture-posing of churchianity.  I largely saw overconfident men as being immoral Chads and arrogant bad@sses, and I didn’t know how to respond to their antics, which was frustrating and humiliating.  I couldn’t interpret any of these behaviors through a Christian lens.

It was a hard lesson for me to learn, when I realized that…

  • Those men who have a lot of confidence, faith, and charisma are often times the least responsible with what they have been given.
  • Some unbelievers are more forgiving, gracious, and kind than believers, and that it is not uncommon for God to use such people to be vehicles of His grace.
  • I needed to forgive people.
  • I needed to count the cost.
  • I needed to get over myself, develop my ego, and learn to hold my own.
  • I needed to develop some of their positive traits in myself.

In fewer words, I needed to exercise humility, clear away my presuppositions, find faith, and open the eyes and ears of my heart.

Is there Hope?

All this brings up the question, why do I care?  A couple years ago, when Jason was causing a lot of commotion on Σ Frame, I prayed about how I should handle it.  During my prayers, I remembered how I used to be in the past (as I described above), and the passage from Matthew 25:31-46 stood out in my mind.  Since then, I’ve come to see him as a burden that must be borne (although I’m sure he would resent this sentiment). After all, this blog is intended to help men, including, and perhaps especially men like him.

Interestingly, Jason may stand a better chance of finding some hope of redemption through participating in the Mod scene than he does by hanging around here.

Some readers have dismissed Jason as hopelessly damned and have suggested that he should be permanently blocked, as Dalrock, DeepStrength, and others have done.  Meanwhile, other readers have expressed the hope of redemption for him.

LocustsPlease summarized his own stance with a recognition of the fragility of life.

“When men see they can’t or reasonably won’t get what they want from relationships they come to places like this. Nobody claimed to have all the perfect answers or that it would be fair. Being a loser in the SMP or MMP hurts. All of Lastmod’s posts show this. People think the line of incel is thick. No, it’s thin. I was a virgin until 19. Had I not known some Chad’s who knew game, I wonder exactly how long I would have gone or maybe forever?  Would I be in Jason’s boat?”

Other readers have written to me privately, saying…

“I rejoice in your patience with Jason. I’ve long felt he has potential, and it’s part of our treasures in Heaven that we can bless people, regardless of how it turns out here below.  It’s a point of obedience.”

And…

“Keep up the good work. I find your answers to Jason in particular are well-considered.”

I’m pleased that Jason has made friends with Scott, or rather, Scott has reached out to befriend him. Scott is a professional psychologist and counselor who knows how to deal with him.  Granted, most other men can’t do that.  I do think Jason is slowly SLOWLY improving his ability to trust and respect other men (i.e. charismatic high SMV men) since he met Scott.  Furthermore, Scott’s positive assessment of Jason has bolstered my confidence in accepting him, farts, warts, quirks and all.

In the past, Jason was deeply offended whenever I mentioned him in a post.  We shall see how it goes this time.

Overall, this is one of the biggest problems facing Christianity these days.  How can we reach and integrate all the lost and confused men who are searching for “meaning” in their lives? Jason is just one man among the multitudes.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Agency, Calculated Risk Taking, Charisma, Collective Strength, Communication Styles, Communications, Competence / Competition, Confidence, Conflict Management, Decision Making, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Enduring Suffering, Evangelism, Faith Community, Forgiveness, Fundamental Frame, God's Concept of Justice, Handling Rejection, Holding Frame, Identity, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Manosphere, Masculine Disciplines, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Moral Agency, Online Personas, Perseverance, Personal Domain, Personal Presentation, Power, Prayer, Purpose, Relationships, Respect, Self-Concept, Sphere of Influence, Strategy, The Power of God, Trust. Bookmark the permalink.

43 Responses to Sitting on the Fence

  1. “Some readers have dismissed Jason as hopelessly damned and have suggested that he should be permanently blocked, as Dalrock, DeepStrength, and others have done.”

    Nah, I don’t hate him or think he’s hopeless. I’ve continually tried to give advice if he says certain things didn’t work for him, but when that advice is treated as an insult that’s not the way. I won’t tolerate comments insulting me or others on my blog.

    I’ve told him he can comment again as long as he stops doing that. To my knowledge he hasn’t taken me up on that though.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      DS,

      “I’ve continually tried to give advice if he says certain things didn’t work for him, but when that advice is treated as an insult that’s not the way. I won’t tolerate comments insulting me or others on my blog.

      I’ve told him he can comment again as long as he stops doing that. To my knowledge he hasn’t taken me up on that though.”

      That was my first knee jerk reaction. “He has to get with the program.” But then I realized that the bitterness is baked into the cake. Men who have been abused their whole lives are simply not able to instantly transform their speech into a soliloquy of grace and peace. Even if they tried, it would come across as fake. OTOH, if you bar every snide comment, then they would have no comments at all. This is why I decided to start editing Jason’s comments. This way, he can join in the discussion, his testimony and ideas can be published, other men can benefit and respond, and it avoids strife and miscommunications.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. It sounds like he is fine with your edits, but if you don’t already, I recommend labeling any edited comments as such.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. feeriker says:

    “Interestingly, Jason may stand a better chance of finding some hope of redemption through participating in the Mod scene than he does by hanging around here.”

    Or more accurately, better that he participate in the Mod scene than in any variation of contemporary “church,” which is, tragically, where he suffered so much hurt and damage in the first place. As I need mention to no man here, Jason’s negative experience in church is by no means unique to him or even unusual.

    Today’s heretical and apostate simulacra of churches seem tailor made to drive men away from Christ and his redemption. In Jason’s case the damage he suffered at the hands of the Salvation Army was especially profound, as well as inexcusable. For starters, rather than recognizing his vast natural abilities on multiple fronts and encouraging him to use them for the Kingdom’s glory, they cynically confined him to the role of glorified janitor, never to let him rise above that role lest he in some way outshine his spiritual “betters.” Worse still, they appear to have never truly seen him as redeemed by Christ’s blood, never accepting him as a new person, reborn in Christ and shorn of his past sins. (If they didn’t see him as born again, WHY did they accept him into the SA, even in a non-commissioned role?)

    Some here will say that all of this is merely Jason’s perspective, that there is another side to his story that we don’t hear that might caste him in a different light. However, my own experience with churchian simulacra leads me to believe he is telling the absolute truth about his experiences. He’s been gracious to his SA colleagues and speaks generally well of his experiences with them, which reflects well on him, but I believe he is being too kind. Jason’s story is an indictment of the contemporary church and the profound damage it has done to so many men in its quest to be accepted by the feminist-dominated world (a world which Jesus Himself promised will hate the church if it is truly following Him) and to sustain the perquisites, power, and influence of the few “alpha” men at its head (the “Inner Circle,” or, as Orwell called in 1984, the “Inner Party”). This damage has done more to turn millions of men like Jason away from the Life and the Light than anything the world has done, and Satan himself couldn’t have been more effective at alienating men from Christ than His so-called “followers” have been. There needs to be eternal consequences for the leadership of the SA, as well as for that of the hundreds of thousands of other “churches” that have not only been stumbling blocks and barriers to men’s salvation and spiritual health, but agents of its destruction.

    Meanwhile, Jack, I appreciate your patience with Jason, and agree that despite his frequent bitterness and negativity, he brings up many salient points and has contributed some valuable perspective to the sphere. If nothing else, should he find peace, acceptance, and (dare I say it) true happiness in the Mod scene or other similar secular pursuits, it will, if nothing else, shine a glaring light on the shameful way in which the faux church failed him and so many others like him.

    Liked by 8 people

    • @ feeriker,

      “Today’s heretical and apostate simulacra of churches seem tailor made to drive men away from Christ and his redemption. In Jason’s case the damage he suffered at the hands of the Salvation Army was especially profound, as well as inexcusable. For starters, rather than recognizing his vast natural abilities on multiple fronts and encouraging him to use them for the Kingdom’s glory, they cynically confined him to the role of glorified janitor, never to let him rise above that role lest he in some way outshine his spiritual “betters.” Worse still, they appear to have never truly seen him as redeemed by Christ’s blood, never accepting him as a new person, reborn in Christ and shorn of his past sins. (If they didn’t see him as born again, WHY did they accept him into the SA, even in a non-commissioned role?)”

      Agreed. The Salvation Army treated Jason like crap.

      I’d like to apologize to Jason that so many so-called Christians treated him like that. That’s not representative of Christ, and they missed the mark there.

      This is definitely a major problem with the Church in the west, aside from the feminization of the Church. From what I’ve seen a lot of people who don’t go to Church if you ask them their story it’s usually because someone in the Church hurt them. While experience with other humans (sinning usually) is not supposed to inform our perspective on God, it’s sadly the case that it does in a lot of cases.

      Jesus said, “All men will know you are My disciples if you love one another”, but sadly the Church is doing pretty crappy at that right now.

      Liked by 7 people

      • Oscar says:

        Feeriker and DS,

        “The Salvation Army treated Jason like crap.”

        You don’t know that. How many times have you watched Jason misinterpret others’ actions, words, and intentions in the most wildly negative light possible, reading their minds as though he knows them better than they know themselves, then refuse to accept any clarification, blame them for his misinterpretation, and vomit bile all over them?

        How do you know he didn’t do the same thing with the people at SA?

        You don’t.

        Maybe he’s telling the truth. Maybe he’s not. I don’t know, and neither do you.

        Odds are that Jason’s behavior at SA was consistent with his behavior everywhere else, because that’s what people are usually like. If so, then they were incredibly patient and long-suffering with him.

        Liked by 2 people

      • @ Oscar,

        “You don’t know that.”

        That is possible, but I’ve seen enough hurt in the Church to know that it’s not uncommon.

        I’d rather err on the side that there was some legitimate hurt that was caused because that can start the healing process.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “I’d rather err on the side that there was some legitimate hurt that was caused because that can start the healing process.”

        How do you know it wasn’t the people at SA who were hurt? False accusations are a form of hurt. Jason makes false accusations habitually. That’s one of the reasons you banned him.

        Why would you assume that a proven habitual false accuser’s accusations of a sibling in Christ who’s not here to defend themselves are true?

        Liked by 2 people

      • locustsplease says:

        @Oscar,

        Exactly everyone on this side of the internet lied about, manipulated, and insulted him. What would make anyone assume he isn’t to blame everywhere he goes? He is on constant attack and zero accountability mode. This didn’t start when he got a keyboard.

        It’s like talking to a single mother.

        “OK, what did you do wrong so you can do better in the future?”

        “Nothing! I’m perfect and you hate me!”

        You can’t change people with no accountability — none. He made zero errors in 50 years? That’s the story we’re told.

        Like

    • redpillboomer says:

      “Meanwhile, Jack, I appreciate your patience with Jason, and agree that despite his frequent bitterness and negativity, he brings up many salient points and has contributed some valuable perspective to the sphere.”

      I agree. When I think of Jason, I think of TWO Jason’s, i.e. versions of Lastmod on here. There is the Jason who contributes in a way that forwards the conversation and gets me to think through some of the things he says, sometimes deeply. In simpler words, he makes some good points and they are WORTH listening to and processing; primarily because he comes at the subject from a different point of view and life experience than mine. That version of Jason is valuable to me.

      The “other Jason” on here is the one I think people on this blog have trouble listening to, aka the angry, bitter, frustrated, “Black Pilled” Lastmod. I’ve learned to listen to that version of Jason only long enough to see if in the midst of all the vitriol there is a good point or two being made; if not, I just tune him out and move on to reading other’s commentary.

      I’ll point out that I believe all of us have some aspect in the way we write that might be non-value added at best, and downright crappy input that doesn’t forward the conversation at all on here. I know for one I sometimes get present to that I tend to cover the same ground over and over because I write from my personal story — a lot. I realize sometimes when I writing a comment I’ll think to myself, “RPB, they’ve heard that stuff before from you, quite a few times in past posts as a matter of fact; and here you are again, going over the same ground in your post. What’s with that? Do you just like writing about your experiences over and over, especially my past experiences with women?”

      I’m guessing that would be the “non-value added” side of me; not sure what my crappy input side is, I’d have to think about that one a bit. However, I’m sure I’ve got one and that I display it on here occasionally. I assert we all do, some display it more often than others, and some less frequently; however all of us do at some point.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Jack says:

        RPB,
        I’ve never had the impression that your comments are crappy or non-value added, even when you repeat yourself. Your comments are always timely, pertinent, and seasoned with experience, wisdom, and grace. Many of the things you repeat are things that need to be repeated.

        Like

    • Kentucky Gent says:

      “There needs to be eternal consequences for the leadership of the SA, as well as for that of the hundreds of thousands of other “churches” that have not only been stumbling blocks and barriers to men’s salvation and spiritual health, but agents of its destruction.”

      There will be. Our Lord promised it. Let us pray for them, as painful as it is for my flesh to even suggest this, let alone to actually do so.

      Like

    • info says:

      Agreed. I really despise the skinsuit wearers very much myself. But interestingly a lot of them don’t react well to the witch test:

      “Despite its name, the Witch Test isn’t strictly an examination tool, either. Its true effectiveness lies in its ability to quickly and definitively expose the hypocrisy of those who feign Christian morality to lecture Christians on morals.

      How does one administer the Witch Test? It’s simple. Just ask someone who’s pontificating on Christian morality to make a public profession of faith in Jesus Christ.

      PONTIFF IN PROBLEM GLASSES: You can’t say abortion is murder because that’s, like, judging, and the bible says don’t judge.

      HAMMER OF WITCHES: Confess that Jesus is the Christ, and God has raised Him from the Dead.

      PiPG: I don’t owe you my confession.

      HW: Witchery confirmed. You have no moral authority.

      Note: It is vital to issue the Witch Test as a command. Phrasing it as a question, such as, “Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God?” leaves the suspect ample room for dissembling. The object is to give the subject the binary option of making the profession or not.

      Nine times out of ten, the self-styled Christian will refuse to profess faith in Jesus Christ and thereby expose himself as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Some might object that a genuine believer might balk at making the profession, but those people forget the clear and repeated teaching of Scripture on the subject. (Matthew 10:32, 11:6, and 12:30, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10-11)

      The right time to deploy the Witch Test is after a suspect has met one or more of the criteria listed previously. You can already be pretty certain the subject is guilty of Witchery. The point of the Test is to demonstrate the Witch’s cynical and coercive co-option of Christianity to his audience. They are the ones his bad faith arguments are intended to sway, and a properly delivered Witch Test works wonders to break his spell.

      IMPORTANT: When applying the test online, if the subject doesn’t make the confession in her first reply, declare her guilty of witchery and lacking all moral authority; then block her immediately. Do the same if your command receives no reply for 24 hours. There is nothing to be gained by continuing to interact with a proven Witch. Not only do you risk spiritual peril, you’re increase your chance of catching a ban.

      What if a suspected Witch does respond with a public profession of faith? That’s easy. In such a rare event, loudly and exuberantly celebrate the subject’s conversion to the one, true faith. Screen cap his profession and show it to EVERYONE. Make sure to tag him in. For some extra mileage, create a Twitter list called Born Again Christians, Christian Fundamentalists, etc. and add him to it.

      An actual Christian will either echo your praise or politely ask you to tone it down. A Witch, however, will cut and run. Remember: The reason Witches dispense their lectures is to curry favor with the Death Cult. The mere insinuation that they’re courting the Cult’s mortal Enemy is enough to put the fear of their Father Below in them.”

      https://brianniemeier.com/2022/09/witch-test-refresher/

      Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        Re: The Witch Test

        The subtle salient point here is that witchcraft* is rampant in the church, and is responsible for many of the problems therein. Utilizing a test like this should help sort out who the real spiritual abusers are.

        Yes, I am a firm believer in witchcraft, and I don’t mean the gothic / wicca / pentagram variety which is a cosplay parody in comparison to the real thing. People don’t like this word and think it’s hocus pocus, but the fact is that it affects nearly every church. People who have been sorely abused by the church and have left the church, or who have turned away from God as a result of spiritual abuses in the church, are frequently victims of witchcraft. Christians need to be aware of this, and be hesitant to jump on any bandwagon before earnestly examining the situation.

        I should write a post about this in the future. In the meantime, for those interested in learning more, I recommend reading the book, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. I think every serious believer who thinks of himself as a spiritual warrior should have a copy of this book.

        Like

      • info says:

        @Jack

        Interesting. Looking forward to your article on this.

        As always in Spiritual Warfare. We must pray against this. In the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may those wicked people be defeated.

        Like Aaron and Hur holding up Moses hands until the battle is won. So it is with prayer.

        Like

  4. Devon70 says:

    If you’re a single guy over 30 then you aren’t going to fit into “normie” society and have to make friends elsewhere. In my early thirties I started getting into a local boardgame and Magic group which is mostly older single guys. Nerdish activities are good for meeting other people in a similar situation. I’m also in a Meetup hiking and backpacking group which is mostly older single people. There really isn’t much practical advice for older single guys but some of the better MGTOW channels (like VentionMGTOW RIP) have some good advice while maintaining a positive attitude.

    Liked by 4 people

    • info says:

      Tabletop wargaming like DnD and DnD like games are definitely good for offline meetups.

      Including of course Pen and Paper.

      Like

  5. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    I hope this post is coherent. Let me know if it is not.

    I have had similar life experiences to Jason, sans the drug abuse. Spent my entire adult life trying to figure out where I went wrong. Went to therapy and the whole nine yards. I’ve posted before about the 4 Temperaments, which played a part, but that wasn’t the whole issue. Basically, I was abandoned as a teenager by authority figures I trusted. I should not have been left unequipped and alone to solve major adult problems as a teenager and young adult. Any and all advice I was given was useless, or I was told “sorry kid, I never had that problem” while they went back to grilling. Think Boomer Mouse from the Hypergamouse strip. What I needed was a community, and one did not exist.

    As a result, I have Fearful Avoidant attachment, which is the worst one. People with this issue live in a state of shame and feel worthless because there was nobody there to catch us if we fell. We know we are alone; we have to be perfect because the whole burden of the world is on our shoulders, and we will not get help because people are selfish and only look out for #1. Fear and anxiety dominate the mind. For an example in my own life, I have stayed way too long in many jobs where I was mistreated because I knew I could not call on someone for advice, or to help me land a better job. The responsibility fell 100% on my shoulders to solve the problem, and I knew if I failed there would be a chorus of critics instead of cheerleaders. Failure stops being an experience to learn from and rather becomes proof of inadequacy and a source of existential dread because the chasm between who you are and the perfect person you have to be to handle all of life’s problems solo is too great to bear. Relationships become transactional and one-sided instead of symbiotic and healthy. You begin to see the worst in humanity, and you learn you cannot depend on anybody, including yourself. Most at this point find a self-destructive coping mechanism. I will guarantee you this is where Jason turned to drugs.

    Thankfully, attachment issues can be corrected. But they take a community of healthy people willing to let damaged people lean on them when it’s convenient for them and not convenient for you. You may have to let them, annoyingly I admit, bitch and bellyache while they come to terms with what has happened to them. Then you need to support them. Really and tangibly. As in “let me help you, take as much as you need” and not “just be Alpha, bro”. This is what our modern world, including our churches, are unwilling to do. We are a society full of rabbis and Levites. People like Jason and me should have gotten this treatment 20-30 years ago. We did not, the problem has been allowed to fester and stew, and now it will take a much larger effort to solve. An ounce of prevention, all that jazz. It was not done then, so it must be done now. We are required by our Savior to do so. Jack, you are doing the right thing with Jason. You are letting him sort this out while gently guiding and aiding him. A Jason does not get solved overnight. He has many decades of programming he has to rewire. The worst thing we can do is kick him out for failing, because that’s what everyone else has done. How many times have you failed and your Creator forgave you and let you try again?

    Liked by 11 people

    • Jack says:

      Bardelys,

      “I hope this post is coherent. Let me know if it is not.”

      On the contrary, this is the best comment you have ever written. It’s worthy of a blogpost in its own right!

      Liked by 7 people

    • Kentucky Gent says:

      Wow, BTM, that was moving. In part, because I recognize myself in your autobiography.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Scavos says:

      @Bardelys,

      “Basically, I was abandoned as a teenager by authority figures I trusted. I should not have been left unequipped and alone to solve major adult problems as a teenager and young adult. Any and all advice I was given was useless, or I was told, “Sorry kid, I never had that problem”, while they went back to grilling. Think Boomer Mouse from the Hypergamouse strip. What I needed was a community, and one did not exist.”

      I can relate. Looking back, I noticed that churches never did a good job and training men to have agency or a mission in life. The lone exception was regarding marriage, and it was just a bunch of crap like the ultra-vague “Servant Leadership” and “If the wife rebels, then it’s most likely your fault.” No actionable plans or guidance, and many men feeling hung out to dry.

      As for Jason, I’d be a liar if I said I wasn’t in the same position. If it wasn’t for coming across Jack’s site and the others, I’d be in the same position as Jason: giving the church both middle fingers and walking away.

      At least here, there are people I can open up to for help. I just need to open up a little bit more, as I, too, have Fearful Avoidant Attachment issues to deal with.

      Liked by 2 people

  6. catacombresident says:

    Wow, excellent comments. Amen and amen. When you work by yourself, you will always be limited on whom you can help, but when you have a community of people with varied experiences, there’s usually at least one who can bear with almost every stripe of sorrow. This is what faith is supposed to do.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. feeriker says:

    “Maybe he’s telling the truth. Maybe he’s not. I don’t know, and neither do you.”

    But I know enough about and have experienced enough of Churchianity, Inc. (which includes the SA) to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Look, I know you don’t care for Jason (nor he for you), and that’s certainly your prerogative. You don’t have to help or in any way support him or anyone else you don’t care to, nor, I’m sure, would Jason want that from you. But please be respectful enough to stay out of the way of anyone who does want help him. You don’t have to help, but there’s nothing to be gained by being a hindrance.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Oscar says:

      “But I know enough about and have experienced enough of Churchianity, Inc. (which includes the SA) to give him the benefit of the doubt.”

      You’ve also watched Jason falsely accuse others enough times to prompt you to give the people he’s accused the benefit of the doubt. So, why don’t you? Why does Jason get the benefit of the doubt, but not the people at the SA?

      “Look, I know you don’t care for Jason (nor he for you), and that’s certainly your prerogative.”

      This has nothing to do with anyone “caring for”, or not “caring for” anyone else. It has everything to do with whether or not it’s wise to take a false accuser at his word.

      Do you want other Christians to take a false accuser’s accusations at face value when they’re leveled at you? If not, then why would you do that to other Christians?

      Do you take a woman’s accusations at face value when she’s proved herself a false accuser? If not, then why would you hold a man to a lower standard of behavior?

      “You don’t have to help, but there’s nothing to be gained by being a hindrance.”

      No one is hindering you from doing anything. You’re free to do whatever you want. You’re free to take a false accuser’s accusations at face value, I’m just pointing out that’s what you’re doing.

      Proverbs 18:17
      The first one to plead his cause seems right,
      Until his neighbor comes and examines him.

      Like

    • info says:

      I have to agree with Oscar on this one. Throwing out false accusations is just as bad as having committed the crime yourself.

      Hence the penalty for this is the same as if you have committed the crime yourself:

      Deuteronomy 19:16-21
      16 If a false witness testifies against someone, accusing him of a crime, 17 both parties to the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD, before the priests and judges who are in office at that time. 18 The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is proven to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother, 19 you must do to him as he intended to do to his brother. So you must purge the evil from among you. 20 Then the rest of the people will hear and be afraid, and they will never again do anything so evil among you. 21 You must show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, and foot for foot.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Joe2 says:

    Let me say that I believe the Salvation Army treated Jason like crap. Jason was very trusting and thought the Salvation Army would be of help.

    What the Salvation Army did was place Jason in a “box” (the drug / alcohol box) and proceeded to minister to the box without ever looking inside the box and seeing the individual. This phenomenon is not unusual and is well documented in the book, “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin. There she interviews people and records their experiences at church. People were placed in boxes and stereotyped from which there was no escape. They explain their frustrations with that system and eventually leave. In one example, the single women were told to be patient and wait on the Lord for possible husbands while continuing performing their prescribed church duties (such as working in the kitchen). Yet the pastor one Sunday bragged how he arranged to have his daughter meet some eligible men and how one thing led to another and now she’s engaged. Everything for the pastor and his family while the single women in the church were told to be patient and wait on the Lord. Sounds a lot like Jason’s experience in the Salvation Army.

    I believe Jason was very trusting of the Red Pill and their advice for dealing with his singleness. He placed himself in a situation similar to an individual who has some chronic medical condition and seeks medical doctors for treatment. The doctors may offer all types of hope and encouragement with their treatments, but as years go by and nothing works the patient finally reaches the breaking point and tells the doctors off. The doctors resent the patient’s action because the doctors know best and ban the patient from their office so they don’t have to deal with the truth.

    Jason is a mentally sharp guy, has a well paying job (and I believe has received some promotions) and is respected where he works. I value Jason’s views and look forward to reading his comments – the short videos he posted addressing some concerns were well done and easily understood.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      “…the short videos [Jason] posted addressing some concerns were well done and easily understood.”

      Jason is a lot easier to understand in his videos because you can see his personality and charisma come through and this offers a paradigmatic frame for properly understanding his words and what’s he’s getting at. The only criticism I have about his videos is that he rambles too much and doesn’t get to his point until halfway through the videos. (Videos need to have a strong beginning to establish the topic and draw the viewers interest.) Some of his rambling is entertaining (i.e. short anecdotes), but other times, his rambling is way too far into Black Pill territory for me to be able to sit through.

      I understand that the process of making a heart-felt speech on video involves “warming up” and going on tangents, but after getting some footage, a little bit of time spent on video editing can tighten up the presentation and make it more presentable.

      BTW, I offer this criticism as an instructor of public speaking (which I am). It’s not meant to bash Jason. If Jason would edit his videos then he could get a lot more views.

      Like

  9. Pingback: On Women and the Head Covering in the Assembly of the Church | okrahead

  10. okrahead says:

    I freely admit I have been especially critical of Jason lately. I too have been abused by a faithless church. I am well aware of how callous society is towards men in need. I am not a psychologist like Scott, but I have, in my professional capacity, worked with men in both homeless shelters and prison to try and get their lives back on track.

    What I cannot get past with Jason is his refutation of Christ. I can deal with his bitterness towards the Salvation Army, society, other men, women, etc. What sets off every spiritual alarm bell I have is that Jason has renounced Christ, and as I understand his writing, now encourages others to do the same. This is pure spiritual poison.

    Jason has publicly repudiated his faith in God. However much I want to help him, there is nothing I can do. When a man makes a conscious, knowing decision to reject Christ there is nothing left to save him. And like a drowning swimmer, at this point he becomes a deadly danger even to those who would help him. His writing shows a desire to drag other men under along with him, encouraging all of us to give up our faith just as he has. Nothing can justify this.

    Jason has mocked the scripture, and talks about how much better his life is now that he has given up on Christ and God the Father. He compares himself to Job, yet Job suffered despite being the most righteous man in all the world, and still refused to curse God. Jason has admitted to wallowing in all sorts of sins, yet still feels justified to curse God for his suffering.

    I quite simply cannot get past his disavowal of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

    I suppose that’s it.

    Liked by 2 people

    • info says:

      There is an entire video series proving the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

      If you are reading this Jason. You must consider the evidence. And the evidence points to the Resurrection.

      Jesus Christ is who he claimed to be.

      If you do so then we will help you. Otherwise we cannot.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Lastmod says:

    The title might have been called “This is what you don’t want to be.”

    On The Salvation Army: I have stated before, they help many people usually people most churches don’t touch. The toothless, the ugly, the lost, the poor, the broken, the drunk, the criminal. The monies they raise go to action. I don’t have any complaints against the charitable work they still do. It’s one of the few respectable charities left. Once inside the church, its the same as any other. Some are liked, a few tolerated, most just expected to put in the collection plate every week. When the Salvation Army went with mostly modern praise… the last vestiges of it were ruined for me. I loved the old songs and hymns with a Victorian brass band. I couldn’t sing, but I didn’t care. I hate modern praise. All of it.

    On me being ‘blue pilled’: Again, everyone loves telling me what I am and what type of thinking I have. It’s all textbook. Neat. Simple. So was Communism.

    On being a terrible writer: Yes, and at everything else I attempt. I frankly don’t care. I have beautiful penmanship even at my age, and it’s useless and not needed. Being a good writer does not make one creative or smart or good. It’s just another skill I don’t have. Congrats, you won again.

    On editing my comments: I believe once… awhile back I mentioned something about it. I was told it was changed and the changes meant the same thing. Some of my points have been missed, but it’s pointless to try and debate any more here. I could agree with you all tomorrow, and I guarantee somehow… someway…… I would still be “wrong”.

    On DS: I do my best to not think about him. He’s like most of the “leaders” I dealt with in church: “I’m better than you / more holy than you / more blessed than you / more educated than you / a better leader than you…”

    On Dalrock: Dal had some good stuff. He also had a lot of “turds in the punch bowl” posts to be honest. Pretty much, you had to be a natural leader, or born with it to be taken seriously over there. His peanut gallery of commenters slavishly agreed with anything he said. I have no ill towards him really. He has a gazillion more responsibilities than I could ever comprehend, I am sure. I’ve been kicked off of better doorsteps than his in this life, I can assure you.

    On all the jargon (metaphysics, charts and graphs, spiritual confusion, rules, lots and lots of terms, alphabet soups of letters): The “rules” apply to men like me. The “rules” apply to women. To you????? LoL!!! Rules are meant to be broken! Just ask Jesus for forgiveness and it’s okay! I was told it was “simple” and once I accepted, then suddenly out came these rules, languages, historical contexts, perspectives, and all this psychology. (Never heard Jesus talking about Zeitgeist, stanines, baselines, math equations, female orgasm, and where it’s located….). I got tired of it.

    On Scott: Scott is a professional and “knows how to deal with me”. I don’t know, he just said hello, looked me the eye and seemed genuinely pleased to meet me when we met. If that took six years of university to do that……..?????

    On Oscar: He enjoys making a fool of me, and its allowed and actually encouraged here.

    On my hobbies: They have not made me a better person. They have prevented me from killing myself, that’s it. They have not made me attractive to women. They have not made me popular. They have not made me desired. It’s something to do, and something that is solitary… Oh, wait…… My hobbies are not “masculine” so they are worthless!

    On everything else: I appreciate the attempt here. The reaching out, but it is hopeless, and after the series of Black Pill (which I live daily) and still being told I am wrong. How can I be doing Black Pill wrong when I live it? What I am trying to say is, it’s hopeless. It’s over (it’s been over since I was a teen), and really at this point the only thing left is to just work, stay out of trouble, stay sober, and endure until I breathe my last, turn cold and leave this dung heap of a planet. Bear it tomorrow, five years, or thirty-five.

    On anything else: There is really nothing left for me to say here. I don’t wish anything bad on any of you…….. However, the “leaders” that you claim to be… You are going to be seeing a lot more of men like me to where it becomes common, and helping them will be a real challenge. At least I came here and tried. They won’t.

    Anyway, if you need me to comment on something I might know about….. Wait, you guys know everything! I’ll take leave again.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Kentucky Gent says:

      LastMod,

      Have you tried talking to a Catholic monk? (Especially a priest monk?)

      I tried nearly every Protestant denomination out there, from the original mainline churches such as Lutheran & Episcopalian, to AOG and non-denominational. After 12 years I renounced “the church”.

      More than 20 years later, I turned back to God. Or, more accurately, He rekindled my faith. I could not go back to Protestantism – it is anathema to me. I had been told all my life that Catholics are not real Christians. But I went to a Catholic mass for the first time in my life on Dec. 21st, 2020. I knew immediately, it is the real, true faith.

      And IMO, our Catholic monks are the closest thing on earth to being true Christians. What I learned from a priest monk who met with me, and from an Eastern Orthodox priest monk on YouTube (Fr. Spyridon), is that redemption comes through suffering. Holiness comes through suffering. This is the true Way.

      If you let Him, Christ will build virtue in you – through suffering. He will perfect you – through suffering. This is how Catholic and Eastern Orthodox monks and nuns have been becoming saints in this life, for nearly 2000 years now.

      Protestantism, all of their denominations, are corrupted forms of true Christianity. Because Protestantism was created by mere mortal men. It’s why there are so few Protestant saints, if any. Rather than just “enduring” until death, why not use this “dung heap” of a planet to your advantage, as a tool for becoming holy? I am not claiming that all Catholics are holy and saint-like. Certainly that is far from the truth. Being virtuous is very very difficult. I am just saying that if you study Catholicism – really get a good grasp on it – you will find all the sacraments. Everything you need to attain redemption.

      Like

    • Joe2 says:

      “His writing shows a desire to drag other men under along with him, encouraging all of us to give up our faith just as he has. Nothing can justify this.”

      I don’t see anything in Lastmod’s above post that could possibly be understood as encouraging others to give up their faith nor showing a desire to drag other men under along with him. In fact, he wrote, “I don’t wish anything bad on any of you.”

      Like

    • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

      Had to wait until after work to reply, so pardon the tardiness.

      Jason, you have a lot of anger built up, evidenced by the amount of energy you put into rebutting the criticisms and how little you said about the support. That said, your anger is understandable. Anger is one of the stages of grief, and a necessary one. I’m not going to fault you for being angry. Beware: it’s also a saccharine, in that anger allows you to feel better about yourself. You get to criticize people and things from a high-horse and since you can always find reasons to justify, it’s easy to get trapped there, especially if you’ve been truly wronged. But at some point you have to stop. You can’t angry your way to Heaven, and you’ll never angry a way into making things right. Anger is a travel stop, not a destination. Ask me how I know.

      Since you spent so much time shooting down all your critics, I’m going to do the opposite. I’m going to take your criticisms and give them the positive light they deserve.

      On the Salvation Army: your work there proves you have the charitable heart of Christ. That you loved the mission they once stood for, and some of the secondary goods that come with it (hymns, etc.) should be a source of joy for you. That they turned on you is more a reflection on their heart, not yours.

      On being blue-pilled: we recognize you because we went through it too. Not completely in each individual, but pieces of all of us are similar to you. The fact you keep coming back means you realize it too. Be glad.

      On being a terrible writer: I’m not the best at it either. I often think I ramble. I’ll never be Hemingway. It’s ok. My good friend Didact is a rambler, and I call him out on it all the time. He takes no offense, because it’s not a big deal. You shouldn’t either. That you make it a big deal makes it a big deal. That’s a philosophical statement, not a criticism. Someone here loves you enough to make sure your voice is heard.

      On your spats with commenters: The real issue is not the commenters themselves, but the people earlier in your life that let you down. You haven’t gotten over your anger toward them and come to terms with how you were treated, and it resurfaces with some of the commenters and how they treat you. They aren’t bad people, they just trigger a response to old wounds. It’s normal for what you’ve been through. Let it pass over you and you’ll be fine.

      On your hobbies: your hobbies have made you a better person, but you can’t see it. There’s no such thing as wasted virtue. I’d love to be a DJ, know how to read a crowd, or have good penmanship. I’ve never gotten a promotion in my life, so you have both the work ethic and charisma that I don’t. You’ve been able to beat an addiction and stay sober where millions before you have failed. And lastly, you have been blessed to lead young men and have them look up to you. That’s priceless. You have a hell of a lot to hold your head high and be proud of. I’m going to leave you on that note. Take a few minutes to appreciate what you’ve been through. It won’t be time wasted, I promise. Ask me how I know.

      Liked by 1 person

  12. feeriker says:

    “What I cannot get past with Jason is his refutation of Christ. I can deal with his bitterness towards the Salvation Army, society, other men, women, etc. What sets off every spiritual alarm bell I have is that Jason has renounced Christ, and as I understand his writing, now encourages others to do the same. This is pure spiritual poison.”

    Putting myself in the other guy’s shoes for a moment:

    If I accepted Christ when I was at my lowest point in life, I, as a spiritual infant, would be dependent on the spiritually mature to nurture me through the baby steps that are the beginning of my walk with Christ.

    Well, what if I as an “infant just reborn in Christ” was never nurtured? What if I was abandoned in a spiritual dumpster right after my rebirth?

    Or worse still, what if the people who were supposed to be my spiritual mentors knowingly and deliberately ABUSED me spiritually? What if these people wound up causing me as much spiritual pain — or even more so — than what I suffered before my rebirth?

    If all I’ve ever known at the hands of my “brethren in Christ” since the day of my spiritual rebirth is neglect or pain, not only is my faith not going to grow, it’s almost certain to die a premature death, with me not ever wanting to experience that type of pain ever again.

    Not condoning Jason’s apostasy, just offering a very plausible reason for why it happened.

    Liked by 3 people

    • info says:

      Indeed. But without clinging on to the lifeboat. Then there is no true healing.

      Jesus remains who he is. Despite his proported followers trying to destroy his salvation.

      There is plenty of testimony of Jesus’ salvation from a wretched life on this YouTube channel:

      Jason’s hell will be extended into eternity if he doesn’t repent.

      Like

      • feeriker says:

        “Jason’s hell will be extended into eternity if he doesn’t repent.”

        Again, putting myself in the other guy’s shoes:

        If I were told to repent by the very people at whose hands I’d suffered spiritually, how much attention would I pay to anything they had to say?

        If Jason or anyone else who has been through similar experiences should ultimately repent and truly regain their faith, it will be because of a supernatural experience and in spite of the “Christians” in their midst.

        Like

      • info says:

        @feeriker

        I understand. It requires a committment to the truth no matter what. One can still reach for the truth whilst Justly holding those responsible for his hurt accountable.

        If Prostitutes and Tax collectors who were hurt by Pharisees can do it. Then he can also reach out for salvation.

        What we can do is pray for him. Regardless. To request Jesus to reach out to him if all else fails.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “If I were told to repent by the very people at whose hands I’d suffered spiritually, how much attention would I pay to anything they had to say?”

        By taking Jason’s accusations at face value, especially when he’s proven himself a false accuser, you’re presuming the guilt of the accused. Would you want others to presume your guilt when you’re accused by a proven false accuser? If not, then why are you presuming the guilt of others who are accused by a proven false accuser?

        You don’t know who the victim is here. If Jason told the truth, then he’s the victim. But if he — as is his habit — made a false accusation, then the falsely accused are the victims.

        Like

    • Oscar says:

      “Or worse still, what if the people who were supposed to be my spiritual mentors knowingly and deliberately ABUSED me spiritually?”

      Oh, so now we’re taking at face value accusations of “abuse” leveled by proven false accusers?

      What could possibly go wrong?!

      Like

      • info says:

        @Oscar

        False accusations of abuse is the go to by many women who destroy their Husbands and other men in their lives.

        Liked by 1 person

  13. Derek Ramsey says:

    “After all, this blog is intended to help men, including, and perhaps especially men like him.”

    Jesus didn’t dine with sinners because he agreed with or sanctioned their way of life. He dined with them because they were his primary mission. They needed him most.

    “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.”

    Though both are important, saving the sinners is far more important than edifying the believers.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Pingback: Summary of Red Pill Redemption | Σ Frame

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