The Black Pill as a Socio-Sexual Phenomenon

We are witnessing the splintering of society.

Readership: All
Theme: Redemptive Headship and Masculinity
Reader’s Note: This post will conclude this week’s topic of the Black Pill.
Length: 1,500 words
Reading Time: 8 minutes

Overview

The assessments of the Black Pill that I’ve offered this week line up with those of several other Manospherian authors, including Blair Naso, Chateau Heartiste, Jim, Lexet, Opium Tales, Rollo Tomassi, and Scott.  The only majorly significant angles I’ve added to the fray are commentaries about the spiritual significance of the Black Pill — how it relates to Redemption — and some of the socio-psychological characteristics that act as either determinants or tells.

To briefly reiterate the spiritual significances of the various “Pill” phenomena…

  • Feminism is a socio-sexual vehicle for women to rebel against Headship / Patriarchal authority and by extension, God.
  • The Birth Control Pill is a vehicle for women to abandon their fundamental purpose as lovers and life givers and become sterile hoes.
  • The Blue Pill is a socio-psychological vehicle for men to submit to women, worship them, and sacrifice themselves for the Curse of Eve.
  • The Red Pill is when a man wakes up from his Blue Pilled delusions and sees reality for what it is.
  • The Black Pill is when a man is so pessimistic about the truths of the Red Pill that he loses all hope in this world. This is a critical stage in which the man must (1) let go of all his attachments to the world as well as (2) his own angst and bitterness, and then (3) find a renewed hope in Christ, or else descend in a tailspin into the Abyss / hell.
  • The White Pill is finding a renewed identity and purpose for living in Christ.

Lastmod, a self-professing Black Piller, has disagreed with my take on the Black Pill.  OTOH, RedPillBoomer wrote a summary of his take on the Black Pill that is pretty darn close to mine. I’ll take this as evidence that the message has gotten through to the readers.  What is missing from RPB’s description is the background social setting that foments all the dynamics within the Black Pill.  So the remainder of this post will give a description of this paradigm.

The Black Pill Phenomenon

In addition to the Black Pill being a spiritual force of darkness and despair that has arisen in recent years, it is also a socio-sexual phenomenon, much like MGTOW was a socio-sexual phenomenon that appeared a few years ago, and the Red Pill was a socio-sexual phenomenon before that.  Feminism combined with the Sexual Revolution was the original explosive combination that kicked the whole thing off, empowered by the six sirens of the socio-sexual apocalypse.  There were many other branches that came out of this grand mal social schism, e.g. the alphabet soup, Beelemzebub, the cohabitation craze AKA “playing house”, Christian Red Pill, Intersectionalism, the demise and Graying of marriage, MRA, OOW births, PUA, TransAm, et al.

What we are witnessing is the splintering of society.  I’ve put together the following timeline to make this more evident. I wanted to add liberal / progressive social movements, but if I did, the graph would become quite messy.

I’ve stated before that the core philosophy of the Black Pill is that the value of a man depends on how well he does in the competition for a specified goal.  When the goal-value association is internalized, it shapes a man’s self-image and world view. If a man does well in reaching this goal, he is “good” or “worthy” according to worldly sensibilities.  If he does poorly, he is rejected as an Incel / loser / outcast, and condemned to the Abyss.  But this, you see, is a religion of works.

In the majority of cases in our sex-centric culture, the predominant goal set before men is getting laid, but the goal could be nearly anything that is used to discriminate the value of a man based on how well he can achieve this goal.  For example, the elite use Ivy League education as a discriminating factor.  Even gradations of Red Pill awareness have been used to slight other men.

Women also complement and support these goals and discriminate among men accordingly.  For example, women discriminate among men according to appearance / looks, physical height, socio-economic status, and who “Gets It” or is game saavy.  In most cases, the goals themselves are based on women’s preferences, e.g. the Feminine Imperative, et al. As the saying goes, “Women stand at the finish line and choose from the winners.”

The Contestants for the Poon Prize

For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.

Jesus in Matthew 25:29 (NKJV)

Within this social paradigm, there are two kinds of Black Pill men – the winners and the losers.  Both are dually complicit with the Black Pill phenomenon.  Both have the same goals (e.g. AMOG, poon, etc.).  Both have the same social philosophy of “winner takes all.”  Both base the value of a man, and even of life itself, on their performance in the competition.  So they both rely on each other to make the Black Pill social dynamic function.  The winners need the losers to prove they can beat out the competition, and are therefore better men according to their thinking.  The losers identify themselves as losers because the winners dominate the competition, push them down, humiliate, and ridicule them, thereby proving that they are “lesser men”.  The losers are not necessarily lesser men, but buying into this paradigm often makes them so.  Over time, they believe the lies, lose confidence and self-esteem, fall into self-destructive habits, and actually become lesser men. Men are not very well aware of this paradigm, because their trajectories are established in early adolescence.

The Black Pill is a tentative and anxiety-ridden comfort zone built on social popularity for the winners, and rejection for the losers. As Lastmod said, the Black Pill is “soothing”. This leaves the winners egotistically obsessed with their own socio-sexual conquests and the losers despondently obsessed with how they can avoid broiling in feelings of bitterness, envy, and rejection.

A Societal-Wide Social Schism

Another way to look at this is that the competition is so brutally intense that it destroys the social capital between men.  Thus, the Black Pill is basically a silent / cold / civil war that is tacitly waged between the Have’s and the Have Not’s by mutual agreement.  The Have’s (including the women) establish the goals and terms, while the Have Not’s accept / believe these terms, albeit unwillingly.  Even though the Have Not’s don’t like these terms, they have similar desires as the Have’s and thus feel like they have no other options.  They are both fleshly / worldly minded and therefore don’t see any acceptable alternative paradigms that they consider worthy of seeking out.

Of course, the Have’s win the war.

1 Where do wars and fights come from among you?  Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?  You lust and do not have.  You murder and covet and cannot obtain.  You fight and war.  Yet you do not have because you do not ask.  You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.  Adulterers and adulteresses!  Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God?  Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.  Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

James 4:1-5 (NKJV)

A Word about MGTOW

These men are not necessarily Black Pill “losers”, but some of them are.  Basically, MGTOW is when a man says, “If I play this game, I’m going to lose and I’ll be worse off for it.  So my best option is not to play.  Instead, I’ll do my own thing.”  Thus, the underlying philosophy of MGTOW is to withdraw from the competition and pursue other interests. MGTOWs who can truly make a break from the competitive games of the world and continue through the four stages of redemption without being defeated by anger, bitterness, etc. stand a good chance of pulling through.  But those who somehow get pulled under anyway, in spite of disengaging from the competition, may become Black Pilled. Some MGTOW find the Nihilism of withdrawing to be a treasured purpose in itself.

Grace Claimed or Forfeited

Both types of Black Pilled men can find Redemption and escape the eternal Abyss by repenting of the worldly religions of idolatry, socio-sexual competition, gynocentrism, et al., and then finding and pursuing a greater purpose according to God’s will in which they could bless others and glorify God. Roosh is the most famous Manospherian example of a “winner” (according to the worldly paradigm) who repented and reformed.

We might suppose that certain “winners” like Fresh and Fit, Rollo, and others like them have discovered a greater purpose in using their RP knowledge to teach and help other men. Similarly, most MGTOW, who would otherwise be “losers”, eventually find other endeavors that bring a sense of completion and fulfillment to their lives. So in a sense, these men have found a form of redemption from their past. But without a full repentance, confessing Christ, and pointing others towards having faith in Jesus, their eternal Redemption remains incomplete.

Dalrock, DeepStrength, Oscar, RedPillBoomer, and Scott are perhaps the best Manospherian examples of “winners” who have followed through to Redemption. Guys like Derek Ramsey and Ed Hurst are good examples of “losers” who have found that same grace and peace. Others like Adam, anonymous_ng, Jack, Lastmod, Red Pill Apostle, Thedeti, and whiteguy1 are still on their journey home.

For most men, however, pulling through this fallen world is difficult, and some men can’t, or don’t, or won’t embark on the journey to redemption for various reasons. Based on 1 John 2:15-17 and Hebrews 12:14-17 (read it), I would say the most widespread acute reasons are..  

For the Have’s / Winners: Overinflated hubristic egotistical pride in one’s self and one’s lifestyle, and fornication.

For the Have Not’s / Losers: Anger, bitterness, concupiscence, depression, and envy.

Both Types / All Men: Spiritual apathy / laziness, a lack of desire / incentive / motivation, a lack of self-awareness, and the lusts of the flesh.

The more fundamental reason is a lack of faith and trust in God.

The final challenge for each man is to look past this mortal existence and envision a greater hope and purpose for living that transcends beyond this evil self-centered world.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Adultery and Fornication, Archetypes, Collective Strength, Competence / Competition, Counterfeit/False Paradigms, Culture Wars, Depression, Desire, Desire, Passion, Determination, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Enduring Suffering, Faith Community, Feminism, Fundamental Frame, Handling Rejection, Holding Frame, Identity, Introspection, Male Power, Manosphere, Masculine Disciplines, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, MGTOW, Incels, Models of Failure, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Online Personas, Perseverance, Personal Domain, Power, Purpose, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Society, The Power of God. Bookmark the permalink.

79 Responses to The Black Pill as a Socio-Sexual Phenomenon

  1. Lastmod says:

    Red Pill men defining Black Pill. When Feminists and Blue Pill men define Christianity… you get butt hurt really quick. You hardly show love and spend all of your time tearing them down. You won’t even go to try to debate them. Dalrock even became a bit of a whiny beta over some of the back and forth with these feminized men who were evidently still brothers in Christ. Going over every context of a word instead of just plainly trying to debate them.

    Alpha men like you all… 175 IQ men like you all should have been able to convince me I am wrong. Easily. All you have done is the typical, “I’m right. You are wrong”. If I backed down you then would have a field day in your atypical Red Pill / Game telling me how I am not a real man because “I didn’t stand up for myself” and again call me, “Blue Pilled / beta / not a real man / etc.”

    You grown men are acting like the kids and teens I knew in middle school. Changing rules during a game cause you were losing, or thinking you could lose. Subtle bullying. Being the all-around great guy in front of important people and behaving differently when adults are not looking. Nothing has changed. Of course you won’t see it. None of you have ever been wrong on anything.

    Go into some Black Pill forum and say what you just posted. The fact that you’re not and never have been Black Pill and then telling a few thousand men, “Ummm… You got it wrong” is a bit like an atheist walking up to your podium at your “bold and masculine church” on Sunday and telling you what Christianity is. You’re all standing in protest, but he calmly just keeps going and ignores your take.

    Kinda like here.

    Also… This conversation is moot. Jesus… I mean Rollo says, “The Black Pill (now) doesn’t exist.”

    You are sounding like a classic academic or one of the countless college professors I had. No debate. Just, “I feel and think this way. Therefore it’s a fact.”

    Like

    • Jack says:

      Hi Lastmod!

      I regret that I must once again pick apart your angsty rant because it shows you have not grown in grace.

      “You hardly show love and spend all of your time tearing them down.”

      Considering all the Black Pill bile you bring, I have not blocked you. Also, you have forgotten that one person you met on this blog reached out to you personally and took the time to meet with you. According to you, it changed your life.

      “Alpha men like you all…”

      There are very few Alphas here.

      “175 IQ men like you all should have been able to convince me I am wrong. Easily.”

      I’m sorry to disappoint your sense of reason. My IQ is only a measly 142 and it has been somewhat of a detriment to my faith. I am not primarily attempting to convince readers that “I am right” through an aristotelian argument, although I know that is sometimes a necessary requirement for certain individuals to get their thoughts straightened out. Instead, I hope to address the deeper faculty of the reader’s faith, but I know not everyone will respond in that way.

      “All you have done is the typical, “I’m right. You are wrong.”

      One doesn’t have to be right to be loved and respected. The Objectivity of Offense Constitutes Respect. I’ve gone to some effort to make sure your comments have been presented in the best possible light. Some of your recent comments have received many likes, which indicates some agreement. It is a stretch to say that your viewpoints have been roundly dismissed.

      “If I backed down you then would have a field day in your atypical Red Pill / Game telling me how I am not a real man because “I didn’t stand up for myself” and again call me, “Blue Pilled / beta / not a real man / etc.”

      You are mistaken. No one has called you such names here. I am proud to see that Oscar is trying very hard to control his patience, which allows me to say that this crowd doesn’t play those Black Pill Zero Sum games that you have become accustomed to elsewhere.

      Comprehensively, your comment shows that you have internalized the competitive social games of the world and this perpetuates your Black Pill mindset, just as I described in the OP. You’re also projecting that general attitude / expectation onto me and others here, and in doing so, you’ve made a fundamental attribution error and you’ve also offered us a case study. All of this is exactly what I’ve been referring to this week. I hope you can see how your preconceived notions do not match reality. Grace is being shown to you, even if you’re not able to see it nor appreciate it.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Black Pill bile? Examples? Because the bile you claim is Black Pill I have not done. I have told no man to kill himself. I came back to post because this is topic I know.

        You have roundly dismissed it and are telling me what it is. I don’t like that. It’s typical of people like you.

        I have found a life and have accepted that I am a zero with women and have indeed moved on and up after being stuck a decade or so by Red Pill steps, contortions, shifting goal posts, lies, and frankly arrogance.

        The comment that got likes is when I defended Scott. Scott did not change my life. You said, “Scott changed my life.” Scott actually is a man who does what he says and lives it. Something that is worthy and should be emulated. He has a genuine humility. I couldn’t see this until I met him.

        “Comprehensively, your comment shows that you have internalized the competitive social games of the world and this perpetuates your Black Pill mindset, just as I described in the OP.”

        Have no idea what this means. Again big words in highly post-graduate sentences that myself and the lower 80% of men, those who are Black Pilled, those you so much want to “cross that abyss” are not going to understand this.

        Oscar has more hate in him than most Black Pill men I have met.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “Oscar has more hate in him than most Black Pill men I have met.”

        This is 100% me.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Joe2 says:

        O.K., I’ll admit I’m a dummy. I’ve been following Lastmod’s posts and all the various replies. Every time I think I understand the exchange, a short time later “poof” my understanding is gone and I’m left scratching my head and wondering what did I just read? OTOH, when I read Scott’s posts my comprehension is clear and understanding permanent.

        Lastmod’s first comment here mentions Red Pill men defining Black Pill to which Lastmod objects. He has a good point if the Red Pill men keep moving the goal posts. O.K. what is the definition?

        He mentions Black Pill forums and apparently (although I could be wrong) you have to be Black Pill to understand Black Pill. Why is that?

        And a lot of criticism of Lastmod seems to focus on his reaction to Christianity in dealing with Black Pill, but I think I need to start at the beginning with some definitions to help me understand.

        Is it possible for someone to cobble together a few simple sentences which clearly explains or defines what Black Pill means to Lastmod and why his understanding is incorrect or if it is correct, is it just all about his reaction?

        Thanks, Joe2 (aka the dummy)

        P.S. I agree with Scott about not being able to game the system. I think about Las Vegas casinos where it is known (or should be known) that slot machines are set up to pay out a certain percentage of the bets in winnings. All of which is controlled by the Nevada Gaming Control Board. In the old days, slot machines were mechanical and it was easier to find “loose” machines that paid out which gave the illusion that you were in control and could impact the machines, but in the long run you would lose. Now the machines are computer controlled which monitor your betting strategies and again adjust payouts to give the illusion that you are in control, but in the long run you would lose.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        The Black Pill is when a man understands the impossible standards, rules, morays, taboos, laws, doctrines, treatises, and ideas of the Red Pill that he gets righteous anger and realizes that Red Pill was only for the elite men, and how a man is viewed by women is pretty much only by physical appearance. Red Pill mocks lesser men, tells them they are pretty much not worth anything. Told they are lazy. The list goes on.

        Red Pill now says Black Pill is a lack of faith. No, Black Pill is reality and acceptance that since as a man you are rejected by men, women, and now large swaths of the socio-political world, the only way to survive is embrace the fact the Game is over for them, and in order to LIVE a man must accept he is alone. The world doesn’t care (not that it should).

        It is a very “1984” approach. Since one realizes he is pretty much worthless, he must now stay alive as long as possible. Black Pill frees a man to actually find pursuits, actually enjoy himself. Actually have self reflection. Actually have a purpose… devoid of women… and most men who just like to put them down.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Lastmod wrote,

        “The Black Pill is when a man understands the impossible standards, rules, morays, taboos, laws, doctrines, treatises, and ideas of the Red Pill that he gets righteous anger and realizes that Red Pill was only for the elite men…”

        “Black Pill is reality and acceptance that since as a man you are rejected by men, women, and now large swaths of the socio-political world, the only way to survive is to embrace the fact the Game is over for them, and in order to LIVE a man must accept he is alone. The world doesn’t care (not that it should).”

        “Since one realizes he is pretty much worthless, he must now stay alive as long as possible.”

        Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to when I said that the Black Pill is when men lose hope and give up.

        What Lastmod wrote at the end…

        “Black Pill frees a man to actually find pursuits, actually enjoy himself. Actually have self reflection. Actually have a purpose…”

        …only happens to a smaller number of men who come to accept their situation and then overcome their anger, bitterness, despondency, disappointment, envy, etc. This allows them to continue on to steps (3) and (4) of redemption, if they so choose.

        IOW, men have to hit bottom before they can begin to rise.

        Like

  2. Lastmod says:

    On your chart, MGTOW in its form as MGTOW goes back to 2005 or 2006? Probably earlier. There were a gazillion men left behind in the 1990’s who could only turn to PUA and GAME, and when that didn’t work for most of these men, MGTOW began to arise.

    Like

    • Jack says:

      I’m sure the essence of MGTOW is as old as humanity. We could also say the Bible is Red Pill. But in that graph, I only included self-identifying social movements. When you say MGTOW goes back to 2005 or 2006, was it organized (more or less) as a social movement that self-identified as “MGTOW” at that time? To my knowledge, MGTOW didn’t take off with large numbers of men calling themselves “MGTOW” until around 2014 or so.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        Again, you can’t even see it……

        “I didn’t notice this until around 2014 or so.”

        So the result is: I will make this graph, deem it as truth because I said so and I am right, and you are wrong.

        You guys have got to be right no matter what, using Red Pill “ending the convo” statements. They don’t work on me. You’re talking to a man, not your wife.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Lastmod, I was asking you for more information. But instead of answering, you resorted to the “I am right, and you are wrong” tack. Can you see that?

        Liked by 3 people

  3. PUA may go back before 2002, but it was something else in the 80s.

    I remember a guy my mom’s age who had these books on meeting women. Bless his heart (he’s still alive), but he was horrible with women. Genius IQ, he would overthink everything.

    He came to my brother’s wedding and noticed how I danced freely and talked freely with women. He asked me how it’s so easy for me to do that. I told him that I don’t think about it. I just do it.

    So I think the root of the black pill may be overthinking. A lot of these men are very smart and suffer from analysis paralysis.

    But alas, I don’t have access to the same numbers as you do so I’ll admit, it’s just a hunch. But it’s not just him. I’ve seen this happen many times with highly intelligent men.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Joe2 says:

      “He came to my brother’s wedding and noticed how I danced freely and talked freely with women. He asked me how it’s so easy for me to do that. I told him that I don’t think about it. I just do it.”

      The venue can make all the difference, too. Weddings, in particular, create the atmosphere where women make themselves appear welcoming and will dance, laugh, talk, etc. with men who they otherwise would reject. The same approach — not thinking about it and just doing it — could result in a much different outcome if practiced elsewhere.

      “So I think the root of the black pill may be overthinking. A lot of these men are very smart and suffer from analysis paralysis.”

      True. I know of engineers who suffer from over analysis which results in them becoming card carrying procrastinators. Sometimes I think Occam’s Razor needs to be applied.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. okrahead says:

    70s Jason, aka LastMod, aka Dalrock’s best decision to drop the banhammer ever, in response to my comments on 1 Cor 7, said:

    “The problem is most cannot be celibate. Men or women. Especially at the ages when youth, hormones, biology and all the other trappings are going 100 mph. Some are forced to they are ugly, deemed not attractive or shamed into following this rule.

    The rule / story / verse is pointless because if you “mess up” and sin….its okay, you get forgiven. If you do follow what that verse says, you are viewed as “oh so you think you are better / stop judging / you are a Pharaisee” this is why I cannot follow this faith anymore. A tome with 66 books, a gazillion rules, and you had better follow them all…….but if you don’t. Its cool just tell Jesus you are sorry.”

    On those gazillion rules: There are really only two. Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. On this hangs all the law and the prophets.
    Every rule you are expected to follow comes down to loving God and your neighbor. Every single one. Your whining and screeching that you simply cannot do it is simply an admission you cannot love others. And then you wonder why you have so little love in your life.
    Jason also said that God hates him, and he renounces his Christian faith.
    Now he’s replaced his mouth with his anus and is taking a big stinking dump all over this place.
    Jason has denied the faith.
    Jason has denied Christ.
    Jason has cursed God.
    Jason insists that someone here should be able to convince him he’s wrong.
    Someone will indeed convince you you’re wrong, Jason. In the meantime, as you’ve returned to your own vomit, you know there is no one here who can help you. Because, with full knowledge of what you were doing, you turned your back on the only One who can help you.
    And in your misery and spite, instead of accepting freely offered help, you try to convince everyone else here to be like you.
    To reject God.
    To reject Christ.
    To reject grace.
    To reject love.
    Jason, you said your own parents warned you about drugs and alcohol and tried to steer you away, but of your own free will you dove in head first anyway, with cocaine of all things.
    Your heavenly Father has tried to warn you away from hatred and faithlessness, but just as you did with your earthly father you disregard His warning and dive in head first.
    You will destroy yourself doing this. It is only by the grace of God that has not already happened.
    You have renounced Christ. After doing that there is nothing left to save you. You are quite literally beyond help.
    So just go away.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Lastmod says:

      Also your reply to my comment. Deti your fellow Believer has stated over and over and over most men cannot be celibate. They need sex or they will die.

      I was saying what he said. I am celibate. I have been. Lifelong.

      Like

    • Joe2 says:

      “It is only by the grace of God that has not already happened.”

      I see the grace of God working in Lastmod’s life and God has not given up on him. I think the fact that Lastmod was able to leave his job at Starbucks and the circumstances of how he obtained his current (well paying) job is evidence. He has a lot to be grateful for.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        I didn’t work at Starbucks. I was a janitor for eight long, useless years with the Salvation Army. I cleaned the toilets the nice people used. When I wanted other jobs or positions, I was told, “It’s God’s timing”, and at the same I was told, “God wants you to not sit around.” I was made to be stuck. While this was going on, I was told here in the sphere, “Gotta have provision to get a wife” and also told, “Women today are gold diggers.”

        A chance meeting at Starbucks one day. A gay man told me to apply for work at his company. I did. I got a chance. I took it. It has paid off.

        Christians and God wanted ME to wait on him. They also “tsk tsked” me for not doing better while assuming being a janitor was all I could do. They just needed someone to talk down to.

        An evil sinner got me a chance at a better job. All I got was scripture, Bible studies, and told to wait while THEY and YOU were allowed to grow. Make mistakes. I was stuck. If I was still a Christian I would still be a janitor and I would still be in church feeling suicidal.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        Lastmod,

        “They just needed someone to talk down to.”

        These people may have claimed to be nominal Christians, but the reality is that they were playing the social role of the Have’s / “Winners” in the Black Pill competition paradigm I described in the OP, which is not a Christian position.

        “An evil sinner got me a chance at a better job.”

        This is something that really surprised me too when I first encountered this as a young man — that some unbelievers are more forgiving, gracious, kind, and loving than nominal Christians. It would be easy to dismiss this by reasoning that they have lower standards and are seeking acceptance, love, and forgiveness from others, but Jesus affirms it’s authenticity.

        Luke 7:46-48 (NKJV)
        46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
        48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

        Verse 47 is often rephrased as “He who is forgiven much loves much.”

        God’s grace extends to everyone, including sinners, and it is not uncommon for such people to be vehicles of God’s grace to others (like what happened to you).

        Liked by 4 people

      • Lastmod says:

        Jack.

        About 80% of Dalrocks commenters wanted me feeling down, stuck. Found extreme joy with putting me in my place. Rollo’s slavish followers wanted me stuck. It just wasn’t people in my church.

        I’ve read the Bible twice through. Unlike you all…. I can’t and could not memorize it. Besides, Christians to this day and even in this forum “cannot agree” on translations. Cannot agree on what “Jesus really meant or said”, and in fact when I was practicing, or at least attempting to. I was (sigh) again… doing it wrong.

        I just came to the conclusion that it was yet another place where I wasn’t wanted. It was again another place to remind me again what a failure I was.

        I left. I got found a new job. Completed a very challenging hike. Went to England for a month. Got another promotion during the pandemic. Bought a car. Hiked two more peaks well over 10k feet. Got a decent bonus. Traveled to the UK again. I now own a car. My dancing improved…

        I mean… Christians here and in other forums just put me down… ducked the life outta me. Argued with me for no reason (Oscar for example, and he found pleasure in this).

        I didn’t go on a shooting rampage. I didn’t kill myself. If I stayed a Christian. I would be dead. I would have done the deed. I was in such pain in 2017. All I got on forums was mockery, stupid solutions, and advice NO other Christian had to follow. Except me… So many of you got jollies and rocks off watching me lose my temper. Watching me fail. “See, Jesus is reminding us we are so lucky to not be a guy like Lastmod.”

        And still, I am a garbage human being. No one challenged that statement by someone who then says all this talk about “love”.

        Love of what? It’s all signaling and zero action.

        When I saw Black Pill being discussed. I had to say something, and again… it was pointless. You know about it more than me and you don’t even live it. Arrogant. Clueless. And again… anything to puff yourselves up and sh!t on anyone else who is not the elect like you all are.

        Your heaven will have about 50 people in it. This faith has been chucked since 822 AD. No one is going except you Red Pill Christians.

        Have fun! I see a new topic has come up. So, I’ll drop out again. The hypocrisy is real deep in here. Coming from an outsider.

        Like

      • Derek Ramsey says:

        “Unlike you all…. I can’t and could not memorize it.”

        I can’t memorize it either. I can (oddly) memorize roughly where specific passages are by remembering their essential content (their meaning), but I can’t quote any of it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Derek Ramsey says:

        And still, I am a garbage human being. No one challenged that statement by someone who then says all this talk about “love”.

        I’ve challenged this kind of talk in the past. After years of the same thing, I’m not going to keep doing it. I’ll respect a man enough to allow him to maintain whatever fiction he so desires. Even the Father in heaven will do that.

        Like

      • Derek Ramsey says:

        I’ve said for years that Jason almost certainly has the spiritual gift of prophecy (and I still think that), though it is raw and untrained. He, of course, scoffed at the notion, but the evidence speaks for itself, IMO. But like many prophets who exist in times of spiritual rejection, he is outcast, rejected by the very people who he was sent to speak to. And he rejects himself. I know of no way to resolve this difficulty, so I don’t speak up much about it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        I believe many bloggers are prophets, especially in the Manosphere. In most churches these days, prophecy is not taken seriously. I know some pastors hate prophets because their prophecies divide the church and make managing the church more difficult. There is no church-established way of training and refining this gift, and using it is not encouraged by the church. The only way to develop it is to use it somehow (like blogging) and get some feedback that can be used to refine the signal. It’s confusing and messy, but can also be effective if one sticks with it for a while.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Derek Ramsey says:

        “I believe many bloggers are prophets, especially in the Manosphere. In most churches these days, prophecy is not taken seriously.”

        The gift of prophecy is the greatest of the spiritual gifts, because the prophet speaks for God by direct revelation, whereas the teacher/preacher only speaks his interpretation of the Word of God. I also suspect that prophets are the pinnacle of what it means to be a Christian mystic and why Christians are told to seek the higher spiritual gifts (including prophecy). Modern churches are missing their—arguably—most important element: their teachers rule and there are no prophets to be found.

        “There is no church-established way of training and refining this gift, and using it is not encouraged by the church.”

        Yet, when a prophet speaks it is their task to submit to the judgment of the rest (e.g. those who teach), for the prophet is not to interpret or weigh on his own words, and he is to fall silent if another needs to speak.

        “The only way to develop it is to use it somehow (like blogging) and get some feedback that can be used to refine the signal. It’s confusing and messy, but can also be effective if one sticks with it for a while.”

        I have the gift of teaching, but not the gift of prophecy. There are times when I catch glimpses of it personally, but mostly I can only see it in others. My role, therefore, is to “weigh” what the prophets say, providing that feedback. It does appear to be quite messy and chaotic, but I’m not sure what choice we have given our constraint: we have no formal churches.

        It would be nice to know what everyone’s spiritual gifts are, and if those are unknown then to identify them.

        Liked by 2 people

  5. Scott says:

    Not sure where to put, this mostly off topic.

    I’ve been away from the Christian manosphere for a bit, for no particular reason really. Just taking my usual break. Reading outside the echo chamber, living my life.

    Every so often, someone like Rowena descends onto the CRP sites, describing something like marriage 1.0– to men who don’t really need to hear it. The guys here are either incels (married or not married) or close to it. (Meaning they have a more or less dead bedroom, or had a dead bedroom, or are close to having one, or something like that). Or they were divorced graped, and are now living a life in the aftermath of that, trying to scrape together something like a sane, rational and peaceful life. They are fully aware of how all this is SUPPOSED to work.

    So regardless of whether or not you believe the 5-7 “maybe, but lets see what develops in context” is real sexual attraction or not, the people who need to hear it are the teenage and 20-something girls/women who are in the spere of influence of the Rowenas of the world. It’s really the only way the needle on any of this will ever budge.

    There are two general paths to restoring a rational/sane marriage paradigm to civlization.

    One– women like Elspeth, Rowena and my wife can get super courageous and influential and shove it down the throats of the girls around them or

    Two — a hard reset collapses the false world we have created and the sexes are forced back into their natural roles for survival sake. This second one will have so much collateral damage, I don’t think the let it burn/prepper crowd really realizes how hellish it will be.

    This is the part that Deti is the MOST right about.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Scott says:

      Commenter Eric Silk had made the comment, at least once, that there is nothing any one man can do to fix any of this. This is why all the talk of vetting and so on generally falls flat as advice.

      The system as it is currently configured, and the several generations that have grown up under it have insured this is the case.

      It is hard for people, especially “conservatives” to hear this, because those of us of who are inclined that way generally have an internal locus of control and like to believe that we can impact the world around us by sheer will.

      It’s simply not the case that you can strategize your way into a good, fulfilling marriage (which for men means lots of enthusiastic sex with the object of your affection). You cannot game the system.

      When I watch the explosion of redpill coaches on youtube now they look like caricatures of bearded wanna be former operational as fvck black rifle coffee under armour t-shirt guys. Most of them are married and reading horror stories from their readers, then telling us all what they did wrong.

      But every one of those guys is in the EXACT SAME RISK category for their life being blown up once their wives decide they are bored or unhappy. And they know it. You can smell the fear coming through their subdued US Flag baseball caps.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        “Commenter Eric Silk had made the comment, at least once, that there is nothing any one man can do to fix any of this. This is why all the talk of vetting and so on generally falls flat as advice.”

        God never intended for any of us to “fix any of this” alone. That’s why Christian community is so important, but oh boy, does any mention of that trigger some people!

        Liked by 2 people

      • Blackpilled Bob says:

        If you realize this, grab your NIV and show your pastor that footnote showing that the pericope adulterae is fake. If you are a pastor then show yourself. This false passage wrought all the damage. Women growing up on that lying Satanic passage made them whores.

        Like

    • info says:

      Never had a girlfriend or wife in my life. Just absorbing info from the Manosphere other sources of information and helping my brothers in Christ.

      By God Grace may we stand together. Rather than fall separately.

      I will probably die a bachelor. But I am not out of the fight until I die.

      Liked by 4 people

  6. John says:

    It sounds like all you’re offering the “losers” here is total destruction of the ego leaving an empty husk of a man. You can dress it up with all the high minded religious and philosophical concepts you want but in the end it is just coping. It seems like this is approaching Quaker territory as well. Should we sleep on hard planks of wood and deprive ourselves of any and every comfort in order to eschew worldly pleasure?

    I’m not Christian so correct me if I’m wrong. I think the church would be more attractive and successful if it’s focus was more on building communities (i.e. pairing off men and women to start families) than on saving souls. I don’t think this is unprecedented either. Why did Christians go off to fight and die in the Crusades? Were they saving souls or defending their communities?

    Where is the carrot after giving up and putting all faith in God? If I find contentment is that considered a worldly pleasure? Even the goal of eternal salvation kind of strikes me a selfish. I think that’s why good Christians try to save others as well as themselves. Encouraging men to give up ever finding happiness is a losing strategy. Instead, maybe try helping them find fulfillment. Unless fulfillment is too materialist. I’m still not sure what Christianity is all about.

    Like

    • Jack says:

      Hi John. Welcome to Σ Frame.

      “It sounds like all you’re offering the “losers” here is total destruction of the ego leaving an empty husk of a man.”

      I’m not really offering or pushing this. In previous posts, I have written about the importance of having a strong healthy ego, which is not the same thing as the proud arrogant ego common to worldly “winners”. OTOH, it is true that a man must come to the end of himself before he can relinquish himself to Christ in totality. I’m not sure if this level of complete brokenness must happen for every man as a prerequisite for salvation so to speak, but it is a common experience. Your statement strikes me as very ironic because the Have Not’s / “Losers” are already that way, some much worse than others of course, but it would seem like they are “ripe” and ready to come to Christ. Christ offers healing from the past, a new identity, a new hope, and a new purpose for living, if only they let go of the old and put on the new.

      “Should we sleep on hard planks of wood and deprive ourselves of any and every comfort in order to eschew worldly pleasure?”

      It depends on whether that brings one closer to God or not. Some people need less indulgence and more discipline, while others need less pain and more joy to strengthen their faith.

      “If I find contentment is that considered a worldly pleasure?”

      Your question is backward. It would be better to ask yourself, “What would bring me contentment?” This would help you understand yourself better and identify what you don’t have that you need from God or other people. Then you’re faced with the task of discovering whether that is actually true for you or not. Generally speaking, worldly pleasures can bring a tentative contentment, but worldly pleasures cannot produce a lasting contentment. True inner peace and contentment are characteristics of sanctification.

      “I think the church would be more attractive and successful if it’s focus was more on building communities (i.e. pairing off men and women to start families) than on saving souls.”

      When taking the long view, I agree with you. We often toy with this idea, and I’ve come up with a couple theoretical models for something better, but it is difficult to form real life communities from an online blog. What a blog format is good at doing is getting men to look deeper, think more clearly, talk things over, and stake out their choices. As such, this is essentially evangelism.

      “Where is the carrot after giving up and putting all faith in God?”

      You get a new carrot that is unique to your personal abilities, desires, and tastes. Christians call this their “calling” or their “mission” or “purpose”, and it has many similarities with the Manospherian adage of “focusing on your purpose”. It’s different for every man but they all have some commonalities.

      “Even the goal of eternal salvation kind of strikes me as selfish.”

      Every man must have a desire or a motivation that God uses to draw that man through the obstacles of life and towards Himself. Many sins are sins precisely because they destroy that desire. Maybe you’re rejecting your own desire by thinking it is selfish or wrong. Even if your desire is truly wrong, God’s grace has a way of refining that and making something worthy out of it.

      Liked by 3 people

    • locustsplease says:

      When men see they can’t or reasonably won’t get what they want from relationships they come to places like this. Nobody claimed to have all the perfect answers or that it would be fair. Being a loser in the SMP or MMP hurts. All of Lastmods posts show this. People think the line of incel is thick. No, it’s thin. I was a virgin until 19. Had I not known some Chad’s who knew game, I wonder exactly how long I would have gone or maybe forever? Would I be in Jason’s boat?

      I did not run in social circles with women where I could just pick one from the interactions. We were just cold approach day gaming women not old enough to drink looking for parties. These guys taught me how to “chop it up” with women. My dad had no idea about women. It was hard and required breaking down personal barriers as I’m naturally the strong silent type.

      Liked by 2 people

  7. Random A says:

    It’s one thing to know the white pill is over yonder.

    It’s quite another thing to cross the chasm even with faith. I suspect many men of faith still struggle mightily because their real world will in all likelihood never get better than it is now.

    Then there are many more men who have clearly lost the faith. For whom the struggle with faith has no appeal. Some manage to keep it together anyway. And some spiral downward.

    The only path left for such men is spiritual. In God. But the way is very narrow.

    I don’t subscribe to Jason’s Black Pill. But I can understand it. It’s a very easy praxeology to fall into; the culture encourages the easy way out everywhere we see and this is just one of many examples of that.

    Liked by 3 people

    • feeriker says:

      “I don’t subscribe to Jason’s Black Pill. But I can understand it. It’s a very easy praxeology to fall into; the culture encourages the easy way out everywhere we see and this is just one of many examples of that.”

      And given the fact that “the church” surrendered to the culture long, long ago, should we really be surprised that so many men abandon the faith when they reach a certain nadir that they can’t pull themselves up from? When their own efforts at prayer and understanding bear no fruit? When they truly are all alone, with no wisdom, prayer, understanding, or encouragement from other men of faith?

      Many of us have drawn great strength and inspiration from the words shared on this blog and others like it. For some that’s help enough. For others, only meat/meet space interaction will produce any fruit, which has often not been easily accomplished. That is where the true challenge lies for being able to make the greatest impact at restoring hope, faith, and redemption for men who have lost reason to believe that there is any.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        God designed us for in-person fellowship. He never intended for us to fight this spiritual war alone.

        Like

  8. okrahead says:

    Because I cannot say it better, or even half as well myself, I am going to block quote Albert Barnes on 1 John 4:18:

    “There is no fear in love – Love is not an affection which produces fear. In the love which we have for a parent, a child, a friend, there is no fear. If a man had perfect love to God, he would have no fear of anything – for what would he have to dread? He would have no fear of death, for he would have nothing to dread beyond the grave. It is guilt that makes people fear what is to come; but he whose sins are pardoned, and whose heart is filled with the love of God, has nothing to dread in this world or the world to come. The angels in heaven, who have always loved God and one another, have no fear, for they have nothing to dread in the future; the redeemed in heaven, rescued from all danger, and filled with the love of God, have nothing to dread; and as far as that same loves operates on earth, it delivers the soul now from all apprehension of what is to come.

    But perfect love casteth out fear – That is, love that is complete, or that is allowed to exert its proper influence on the soul. As far as it exists, its tendency is to deliver the mind from alarms. If it should exist in any soul in an absolutely perfect state, that soul would be entirely free from all dread in regard to the future.

    Because fear hath torment – It is a painful and distressing emotion. Thus men suffer from the fear of poverty, of losses, of bereavement, of sickness, of death, and of future woe. From all these distressing apprehensions, that love of God which furnishes an evidence of true piety delivers us.

    He that feareth, is not made perfect in love – He about whose mind there lingers the apprehension of future wrath, shows that love in his soul has not accomplished its full work. Perhaps it never will on any soul until we reach the heavenly world, though there are many minds so full of love to God, as to be prevailingly delivered from fear.”

    This is the only way across the chasm. Love fearlessly. Love the unlovable. Love your enemies. Love your neighbor. Above all, Love God.

    We cannot live fearlessly until we live in love.

    The black pill is despair borne of cringing fearfulness.

    Accept God’s mercy, obey Him in faith, and let go of all fear.

    Do you want the confidence that so many red pillers talk about? The “irrational confidence?” Accept God’s love and live without fear.

    But not because you want to get easy access to women. Not because you want to be materially successful in any carnal endeavor.

    Because you have your eyes, heart and mind set on something better. Red pillers talk about “having a mission.” Well, guess what, I’m telling you you’re being offered a mission.

    And it will hurt. But don’t fear the pain. And you will lose friends and family. But don’t fear the loss. And you may find yourself betrayed by those most intimate and dear to you. But don’t fear the betrayal.

    Embrace the love, live it, and offer it to others.

    This is the only way.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Oscar says:

      That’s one hell of a mission. My pastor preached on gratitude on Sunday. It was the start of a series on Ephesians 5. That was very convicting. I particularly liked this line.

      “Gratitude is the plow that breaks up the hard ground of hard hearts.”

      Ouch.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. “Dalrock, DeepStrength, Oscar, RedPillBoomer, and Scott are perhaps the best Manospherian examples of “winners” who have followed through to Redemption.”

    Meh. I’m a relative “Normie” per Wheat Waffles. Probably 5/10 in looks. Maybe 3-4/10 to some, perhaps 6-7/10 to few others.

    I don’t think Dal or Oscar have described themselves as “winners” either at least in terms of SMV. Scott seems to be the only one who is a “Chad” in SMV terms. Don’t know about RPB.

    I’ve only met maybe 2 women in my life who have shown true genuine interest in me from my looks. Like from the get go were shooting off IOIs like crazy. I would assume they thought I was 8+/10 to them, but that’s like < .01% of women which, statistically, means I’m definitely around a 5/10 probably.

    All other interest from women was “built” up with PSALM + masculinity, leadership, and whatnot. I think my wife was one of the 6-7/10s at first — attracted & interested but not crazy over me until she saw my leadership and other attractive traits along with devotion to God.

    This is why also why I generally disagree with Scott and deti’s assessment that you can’t make a woman hot for you given some attraction at first. Maybe not all, but I think men can make most women hotter for you.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jack says:

      Deep Strength,

      “Meh. I’m a relative “Normie” per Wheat Waffles.”

      You’re being modest. In addition to your service to Christian men through your writings, you were able to successfully navigate the broken SMP/MMP to find a Christian wife, and you arrived in marriage with your purity intact. You deserve a medal for that.

      “I don’t think Dal or Oscar have described themselves as “winners” either at least in terms of SMV.”

      As the saying goes, look at what they do, not what they say. Dalrock is a winner by virtue of his contribution to the Christian Manosphere. Oscar is an accomplished man who has a wife and 9 children who think he’s a winner.

      Will you write a post on the topic of redemption?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        “Oscar is an accomplished man who has a wife and 9 children who think he’s a winner.”

        Hey now, that’s 10 kids!

        But seriously, I found Dalrock because of problems in my marriage, which have gotten better, but not completely been resolved. I don’t talk about my marriage, because I don’t think it would be fair to my wife, since she’s not here to tell her side of the story. The only Androspherians with whom I’ve discussed my marriage are Cane Caldo, and Scott, mostly because we’ve talked in person.

        I’ve made a lot of mistakes, and committed innumerable sins from which God’s grace has saved me, and preserved me. And, fortunately, I’ve made enough good decisions to outweigh the bad ones (I think). In other words, I’m pretty ordinary.

        I don’t want anyone to think I’m anything other than ordinary, because that’s what I am, and also because when I see another ordinary man succeed, that makes me think, “If he can do that, then so can I.”

        Anyway, enough seriousness. I gotta go meet the wife, kids, and in-laws at the county fair. All you he-man woman haters have a great weekend!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        Jack,

        I forgot to thank you for the compliments, which was rude of me. Thanks!

        Okay, now I’m out.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Jack,

        “Will you write a post on the topic of redemption?”

        Sure, but in what manner?

        I’ve written a lot about leading/headship and loving your wife for the purpose of sanctification. I’ve also written a ton of the how-to topics for singles to relationships to engagement and marriage in a godly manner.

        What other ways are we talking about here?

        Like

      • Jack says:

        DS,

        Here’s a couple ideas.

        (1) How does churchianity hold men back from redemption? Your comment below is a good starting approach to this issue.
        (2) Emotional turmoil (e.g. anger, bitterness, despondency, envy, frustration, etc.) is common in today’s SMP/MMP, and this is a stumbling block for Christian men and a barrier to redemption. How can Christian men deal with this?

        I did a search for “redemption” at your blog. I found a couple posts that you could build on for topic (2).

        Christianity and Masculinity: Overcoming the Anger Phase (2015-5-1)
        Christianity and Masculinity: Emotional Engagement (2015-5-4)

        Liked by 1 person

    • Scott says:

      It’s pretty hard to be a Chad at 51 but it’s not for lack of trying baby!

      By the way, I took Mychael on a cruise to Alaska for our 15th.

      This was about mid way through.


      Image Source: https://ibb.co/ZzQXvt8

      Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        Jack if you want to make that picture imbed I’m cool with it.

        I will never be able to do it.

        It’s my kryptonite.

        [Jack: Done!]

        Like

    • Scott says:

      I went and watched that guy Wheat Waffles video about how to determine where you are on his scale. Geez.

      No wonder people get depressed watching that stuff.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        Scott with all due respect, you can say that because you would be rated easily way above average, and have always been.

        Just sayin’…

        I didn’t take his scale because I know where I fall already. Proof over the decades has shown me that, I am not going to pay a guy like that to tell him what I already know.

        I was recently in England, and the ‘looks thing’ is even more amplified than it is here. Don’t worry though, it will be at that level in the USA soon enough.

        I danced at an all-night Northern Soul dance in Manchester while there. 90% of the dancers were just solo guys. Most of them way younger than me (though a few old cats there) and way above average looking.

        During a break, I was chatting with a “Mancurian” young guy. Handsome. About the age of 24. I assumed he had a girlfriend(s) and asked, “Where’s your gal?” He just chuckled, “Women want hot guys” while shaking his head and tossing back his pint. “Also mate, I think you know that women think dancing is twerking their bum on someone.”

        Yeah, he was right on that. But it made me think. My cousin in the UK is about 40. She is, I suppose, cute. She said to me in 2019, “The men in Britain are all subpar, quite a bit indeed.”

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Scott,

        For those wondering, this is probably the best one on differences in treatment of sub5, Normie, and Chad distinctions in his opinion from women. I largely agree with it.

        I covered it in this post along with some analysis.

        “I watched a few more videos aside from these and it’s worth noting that the “sub 5” population that he says generally gets negative feedback right off tends to be 10-15% of the population. So normies are approximately 70-80% of the population and on the number scale range from about 5-7 or so with some of these men being more attractive than others but not enough to jump to Chad status.”

        There’s only ~10-15% actual sub5s, and most of the sub5s are that way because of obesity which means they can correct their weight issues and get out of the sub5 range. Overweight/obesity does bad things to women and men’s faces too.

        Since there’s likely <5% of actual sub5s from facial defects or whatever, this means most men (likely >95%) are Normie range or better and can generate at least some interest from women if they build any of PSALM + masculinity.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Scott says:

        Not sure where the 10-15% comes from. There is no reason to assume that the looks scale is not objective and normally distributed. This would place about 1/2 of the population at 4.99999/10 and down.

        Like

      • @ Scott

        Not sure where the 10-15% comes from. There is no reason to assume that the looks scale is not objective and normally distributed. This would place about 1/2 of the population at 4.99999/10 and down.

        I think your 10-15% number is you being your usual charitable self, and I mean that in a good way.

        It’s just that it’s not rational (arithmatically speaking). It’s the reason I always hound on the disappearance of assortative mating, which has been caused by a number of factors in the environment.

        You’re comparing apples to oranges here.

        Wheat Waffles 10-15% of sub5s is from evaluating several thousands of faces mathematically. If you review the video, you can quibble with some of the examples a bit, but I think you will agree they are within +/- 1ish range. Remember, this is ONLY faces. It’s not considering any other factor like the rest of the body.

        What you are referring to is 50% of the population being sub5 is including overweight and obesity. Thus, I agree with your statement as close to 70% of the population at least in the US is overweight with 30-40% of that being obese. Most overweight and obese fall into sub5.

        A large part of the reason why 95% of men and women married as late as 1970-1980s is because there were very few obese and a a relatively low percentage of overweight. Since some objective components of physical attraction for both men and women are based in appearance and it’s very rare to have men or women prefer obese, that is driving a lot of the sub5 appearances of both men and women which means the rates of marriages are going to drop.

        What I was talking about in my post is that since 10-15% of men have sub5 faces including overweight/obesity, and a decent portion of them are overweight or obese some of them can get out of the sub5 range. In other words, it’s rare that both men or women have really ugly faces that no one wants to marry them.

        If all men and women were able to get on sustainable nutritional plans to cut calories and exercise more they would all drop down from overweight and obese, and that would help to cut some of the appearance gap in a lot of the sub5s to just be Normies again. Some of those sub5s might be Chads under all the fat too. Similar for women losing weight… they can go from a 3 to an 8 if they have good facial genetics under the fat.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I did watch that 1000 faces video and a couple of things struck me as odd. The ratings are all him subjetively assigning the number to them and he literally ZERO guys over 40 with a face better than a 6/10. Really? I mean I know age hurt a little but I get more IOIs now at 51 than I ever did in my 20s. And thats from totall random women who know nothing of my other traits like personality, status, income, etc. I don’t do anything about it because I am married, but I mean, the point is the rating seems really off.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Scott re 1,000 Faces,

        Am guessing he’s selecting extreme examples for obvious visual differentiation and thereby creating dramatic effect for the video.

        Rest assured, you’re still a stud muffin at 51!

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I’m not sure about that. Maybe I misunderstood him, but the way he sliced the data suggested that is impossible for a man over 40 to be in the top tier of his three tiered system. Like, it automatically makes you so wrinkled and balding that you are bumped down, from their definition.

        Like

      • @ Scott,

        “I did watch that 1000 faces video and a couple of things struck me as odd. The ratings are all him subjetively assigning the number to them and he literally ZERO guys over 40 with a face better than a 6/10. Really? I mean I know age hurt a little but I get more IOIs now at 51 than I ever did in my 20s. And that’s from totally random women who know nothing of my other traits like personality, status, income, etc. I don’t do anything about it because I am married, but I mean, the point is the rating seems really off.”

        It’s likely because:

        I. Sample size of 1,000+ faces is mostly 20-30 something singles wanting to get rated to see what they supposedly need to work on to get girls.

        Not as many 40+ year olds… probably maybe 100 or so left in the pool?

        II. Most of the 40+ year old men who are getting rated are the single ones… which in turn means most of the already married / successful 40s+ men aren’t the ones going for his services.

        This narrows it down to probably low to mid single digits. And of those single digits that’s a very small sample size and not surprising there may only be 6+/10 at most.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I think your 10-15% number is you being your usual charitable self, and I mean that in a good way.

        It’s just that it’s not rational (arithmatically speaking). It’s the reason I always hound on the disappearance of assortative mating, which has been caused by a number of factors in the environment.

        Like

      • Joe2 says:

        “I danced at an all-night Northern Soul dance in Manchester while there. 90% of the dancers were just solo guys.”

        I find that very unusual. Has that happened here in the USA? I know it’s quite common (or was quite common) to see girls dancing with girls, but guys dancing by themselves or with other guys, nope.

        The only venues I know of where that happens is at gay bars / clubs. In fact, I knew of one girl who would go to gay venues to dance because she thought they were excellent dancers and she didn’t have to be concerned about being groped.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Joe, it may seem strange because the Mod scene originated in the 1960s and it only persists in certain areas / venues. Type in “Northern Soul dancing” on YouTube and watch some videos. Here’s one.

        There are many other clips like this one.

        This happens almost every weekend in the north of England. It’s a straight guy scene. Yes, there are women there too, but only a few.

        Liked by 3 people

  10. Blackpilled Bob says:

    The pericope adulterae and the fact that even the most pius christcuck will defend it knowing its a forgery and say, “It’s a fanfixtion but not inconsistent with our false faith so we continue to pretend its real scripture” is the true blackpill. Men today don’t have the spine to tell their whore wife that Jesus did not say, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Men in the late 1800s didn’t even have the stones to tell their fairly not so whorish wives this. And as a result the world is destroyed and the destruction began in the Christian West in English because it came from the KJV including this false passage. Period.

    Like

    • Scott says:

      Wow man. I went to look that up and you are right. Depending on where you line you line up on the text criticism spectrum, it really doesn’t belong in the Bible. And the implications are pretty far reaching. A major (and really bizarre) passage is found in there that we base a big part of our understanding of what it means to be a hypocrite is in that section.

      Mind blown. And I went to seminary too.

      Like

      • @ Scott,

        “Wow man. I went to look that up and you are right. Depending on where you line you line up on the text criticism spectrum, it really doesn’t belong in the Bible. And the implications are pretty far reaching. A major (and really bizarre) passage is found in there that we base a big part of our understanding of what it means to be a hypocrite is in that section.”

        I’m of the other opinion. Even though it’s not in John 7-8 in the majority of the oldest texts, it consistently in a few different places in the various gospels. This means it’s likely a legitimate story about Jesus, but the scribes didn’t know where to put it and eventually it settled in John 7-8. Other Church fathers reference it as early as around mid 100s AD, and that’s before most of the early manuscripts which are usually 200s or later.

        The major point issue is not the story itself which is consistent with Jesus’ character but modern interpretations of the story.

        For instance, we know that the modern interpretations of various verses are warped:

        ~ Eph 5:21 “Submit yourselves to one another in reverence of Christ” – Egalitarian drama
        ~ Eph 5 “Husbands, love your wives like Christ loved the Church” while leaving out the purpose is sanctification and not about not making her feel bad.
        ~ Matthew 7 “Don’t judge lest you be judged” … and ignoring the context of hypocrisy and other passages which state Christians are supposed to call each other out.
        ~ Matthew 5 “…anyone who looks at a woman/wife with lust (actually covetousness) commits adultery in his heart” while 1 Cor 7 says that if a single man and single woman want to do things with each other they should marry and it’s not sin. It’s only coveting something that is another man’s that is adultery in the heart.

        For pericope adultery — “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” is clearly aimed at the hypocrisy of the Pharisees trying to trap Jesus in his words. If they truly cared about the adultery in the Law, they would have brought the woman AND the man caught to be stoned. But here they only brought the woman, so it’s clear they’re targeting Jesus on purpose.

        Modern interpreters treat this passage much like Matthew 7 “Don’t judge lest you be judged”, but the full context is don’t be a hypocrite and remove the plank from your own eye before you judge. Not that you shouldn’t judge at all. They also ignore Matthew 18, 1 Cor 5, and other places in the Scriptures where it says explicitly to call out other Christians who are caught in sin to repent. Jesus is consistent by telling her to “go and sin no more” or in other words repent and change your ways.

        I don’t see a problem as long as it’s interpreted correctly, but it is an easily warped verse.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Derek Ramsey says:

        “I went to seminary too”

        God gave me chronic headaches so I wouldn’t be able to go to seminary. It’s why I never became a pastor (and had the five kids I have now instead). It was only after I made that decision that the solution to my headaches was found.

        “Depending on where you line you line up on the text criticism spectrum, it really doesn’t belong in the Bible”

        I’m definitely on that spectrum. I also include Mark 16:9:-20 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. There are a few others, but those are some of the more significant ones.

        Liked by 1 person

      • naturallyaspirated says:

        It’s another plank/sawdust example, reminding us to watch our own bobbers, lead by example, and leave the sorting out to God.

        “Go and sin no more” keeps things clear as well.

        If an interloper, the verse does no damage

        Liked by 3 people

  11. Oscar says:

    The wife’s cookies took 3rd at the county fair. Not bad for her first time competing. Those Mennonite ladies are tough competition!

    Liked by 3 people

  12. proprietor says:

    The Red Pill (women’s nature) becomes the Black Pill (hopelessness) when combined with an understanding of the consequences of the present legal environment, especially regarding marriage/divorce, but extending also to domestic violence/”sexual harrassment”/abortion and other such factors.

    Men have failed miserably at joining together and at least making an attempt at fixing the legal structure. Women will never do it, because it is really not their responsibility, or even within their ability to comprehend the cause/effect chains involved. Making Law (ie Frame) is Men’s Work. Women’s work is mostly Mercy, or softening the hard edges of the Law.

    That is why I exhort all men to actively support some kind of Men’s Rights-type organization that is active in influencing the legal framework. This organization might not be very effective, but so what? Give them at least $25.

    Like

    • proprietor says:

      From Making Law derives Justice, which is: Punishing bad behavior (behavior that is destructive of others’ wellbeing), and rewarding good behavior (behavior that is constructive of others’ wellbeing).

      Like

  13. Lastmod says:

    The closing…

    Been dancing to sixties RnB and Soul, Motown, Stax, Volt, since the mid 1990’s. San Francisco had a decent scene. Many a night at “Mad Dog In The Fog” and “Dylans” dancing to Soul. When I quit cocaine and the drink, my dancing improved vastly.

    In 2019, I finally made it to Manchester, England to see where this dance scene started. I danced to this music almost every night while I was there. I dance shirted and tied. Mod proper. I went to one “all niter” / “up all nite”. The dance started at 7PM and went til 7AM. That’s a long haul! The last three hours were rough. I had to do it. I had to finish it. Because I was in Manchester! I was crawling out at the end, I could barely stand up. Let me say….. my slacks, shirt were stuck to me. I had to use a potato peeler to get my clothing off. The tie was ruined.

    I can’t trick anymore. Well, I can throw a jump in, or fall back… but that will be it. I can’t even go all nite anymore. Even so, I am still an above average dancer to this music. Here in LA, I showed up at a venue in Watts one night. The only white boy, dressed like a Chrysler showroom salesman from 1961. People were staring and whispering. But once I hit the floor, there were no problems, no looks, or snickers. Just dancing, high-fives in between songs, pleasant handshakes and smiles.

    This short film from England encapsulates the whole thing.

    [Jack: Missing Link!]

    I personally think this style of dancing has and IS going through a revival in the UK is because of loner men. Unmarried men. Loser men. Men needing SOMETHING to do.

    Most dancers in this scene are men. Straight. This dancing was acceptable without a partner, AND the music was innocent enough. Not sexual. Not image first. Not showing people up. When I was learning the steps decades ago, it was men, and it was SUPPORTIVE. You had to dance and LOVE the music first, then enjoyed and learned the steps. I fell into it partly because I am an Anglophile, a Mod….. but I didn’t believe I was being judged by women or men. It was the music. I think that is why its big now in the UK… still.

    The 1960’s and early 1970’s produced the best dance music. Lyrics that have no cussing. Music that can be enjoyed WITHOUT drugs (with techno, EDM, and the like… you have to be mashed up to get into the groove). Music that showcases individual personalities, rather than sexuality. (Now, Women like twerking, and they’re all white women. All them think — THINK “This is dancing!” Heh!) It was carefree, happy and aspiring…… I will be dancing to this until I cannot stand up. This, more than anything has kept a trim figure on me and I sleep soundly and well when I go out dancing.

    Young Souls. Short film.

    I still think you all are missing a HUGE piece of Black Pill, but what do I know? 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  14. feeriker says:

    “During a break, I was chatting with a “Mancurian” young guy. Handsome. About the age of 24. I assumed he had a girlfriend(s) and asked, “Where’s your gal?” He just chuckled, “Women want hot guys” while shaking his head and tossing back his pint. “Also mate, I think you know that women think dancing is twerking their bum on someone.”

    Yeah, he was right on that. But it made me think. My cousin in the UK is about 40. She is, I suppose, cute. She said to me in 2019, “The men in Britain are all subpar, quite a bit indeed.”

    Britain is, needless to say, part of the Anglosphere and the women of the Anglosphere (which of course includes American women) are pretty much universally understood to be the world’s most insufferable: arrogant, entitled, solipsistic, and slutty.

    Take comfort in knowing that these same British women who consider their nation’s men “subpar” are the same women who, like their North American counterparts, are going to die alone, very likely after drinking themselves to death or OD’ing on the most fashionable street drug du jour, mixed with a cocktail of prescription headmeds. They won’t be missed.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Pingback: Analysis Paralysis is the Gateway to the Abyss | Σ Frame

  16. Pingback: Pericope adulterae | Christianity and masculinity

  17. Pingback: Sitting on the Fence | Σ Frame

  18. Pingback: Summary of Red Pill Redemption | Σ Frame

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s