Red Pill Redemption

What does it look like?  How can we make it happen?

Readership: Christians; Men; Christian Men;
Theme: Redemptive Headship and Masculinity
Author’s Note: This post is based on a correspondence between Jack and Catacomb Resident.
Length: 2,450 words
Reading Time: 13 minutes

A Call to Mission and Revival

Catacomb Resident’s post, Redemption is Not Convenient (2022-8-13), called out the need for the Christian Red Pill to focus on the topic of redemption.  He writes,

“There is something I would like to see some day: More talk of redemption among those to whom the Lord has revealed a better understanding of reality.

It’s not hard to find any number of men in the Red Pill Manosphere who can slice and dice the problems with our society. They can articulate what’s wrong with western feminism as an oppressive social milieu. They can list the ways in which women lie to themselves and can distinguish between the pernicious peculiarities of our world versus the common fallen nature of men and women everywhere. They can examine the words and actions of both sexes and tell you with strong conviction just what this person has wrong when it comes to the Red Pill reality of human sexual response.

It’s fine to classify accurately men as Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, etc. It’s downright satanic to act like there’s nothing we can do to redeem them as they are. Men who fall into these categories are still people. God made them that way, and He has a plan to use them with those various abilities and weaknesses. If all you can do is b!tch about the numerical dominance of men who aren’t as special as you, and try to drive them away, then shut up and stop pretending to be a Christian.

Our Lord is in the redemption business. That’s why He came, and taught, and died, and rose again. The most annoying soy-boys have a place in the Kingdom.  The question is not how you identify and run them off; the question is how do you redeem them.”

“How about we start discussing this need on all those Red Pill blogs and forums? Can we start to think about a normative model of a covenant community that departs thoroughly from the rancid society in which we live?  Will you pray about how to redeem all these men and women?”

This includes women too.

“Oh, yeah — I can understand the Red Pill reluctance to handle women who let themselves go, but God made a lot of them with diminished sex appeal for a reason. Every Red Pill guy I know online has a very self-centered obsession with trophy women. How about we discuss this shameful rejection of women who aren’t naturally cute, but might be a real moral and spiritual jewel if you bothered to get to know them?”

Catacomb Resident: Redemption Is Not Convenient (2022-8-13)

Ed Hurst echoed Catacomb Resident’s concern in his post at Radix Fidem: Redemption and Typology (2022-8-16).

Redemption is a topic that I have given quite a bit of attention to in my blog over the last couple years, but judging by the tepid response, I’ll guess that most readers don’t have much of a clue about this.

I’ll admit that I am not very confident in my understanding of what redemption is and how it happens, but judging by the (lack of) responses to my posts, I probably have a better handle on it than most other men, so I’ll take Cat’s post as a call to action.

So I wrote to Catacomb Resident (CR) to talk with him a little bit about this, and find out what his ideas are.  Specifically, I wanted to find out if my concept of redemption agrees with his, and it does.  I also wanted to hear about any other insights he might have. (I’ll relay these on to the reader below.)

We agreed that redemption is an under-discussed topic that needs to be covered more so that it is clear to everyone what it is and how it happens.

I concluded the real challenge in understanding redemption is not in understanding what the scriptures say about it (because Christians have heard or read it before), but in knowing what it looks like IRL and how to make choices that lead one in that direction.

So to begin with, here’s a brief description of some outward indicators of redemption.

Hallmarks of Redemption

CR and I discussed the nature of redemption.  CR said redemption has several definitions, but the essence is being rescued from the Devil’s hands. We are born with our lives forfeited to Satan and his dominion. We are slaves and prisoners. Redemption is the process of being pulled out of his clutches, so that he no longer keeps us from all our covenant blessings. It’s a process; a little here, sometimes a lot there. What that looks like is a soft definition; but to the individual man it means answering the demands of your own convictions, both for your own redemption, and for the sake of others.

Redeeming Single Men

For single men, I think a big part of redemption is…

  1. Understanding and accepting who they are.
  2. Rectifying who they are with who they are in Christ (i.e. confession, repentance).
  3. Learning to trust God with the self (e.g. desire, ego, libido, personality) and what they have been given (e.g. intelligence level, placement in the SMV hierarchy, stewardship of resources, etc.).
  4. Finding and following their God given purpose in life.

I see several significant challenges to these things as being,

  1. Poor, scant, or heretical teaching.
  2. Ill treatment and disrespect from women (including mothers and same age female peers).
  3. Not being able to apprehend a sense of masculine power and authority (which is most painfully evident in not being able to get any traction with women).
  4. Being ridiculed and rejected by other men (which CR mentioned in his post and has been discussed on Σ Frame at length).
  5. More, which I’ll cover in the next post.

Redeeming Married Men

Based on what I have learned and written about in the past, a man’s marriage and family experience redemption when a Headship structure is attained and/or maintained.  This means that God is able to use this marriage and family for His purposes towards holiness, glory, growth, and bearing fruit, rather than it being relegated to a common, real life, sitcom drama filled with gynocentrism and self-centered sins of ignorance.

Thus, men need to get away from the churchian babble, get back to the Bible, take the Red Pill, and work towards establishing their own Patriarchal-styled domain of influence.

Redeeming Women

For women, I am less clear about what their redemption involves, except we know the following…

  1. A Headship covering offering guidance and accountability is absolutely necessary, and this can take the form of a father, a husband, or even a pastor or an older brother.
  2. Sexual promiscuity and buying into the Feminist Life Script works against their redemption, whereas being married and especially having children is a huge boon to their redemption.  Therefore, women need to pursue sexual chastity and submit to male authority (father or husband).

When discussing women, we have two issues.

  1. We must establish some level of Heart Trust, and make an effort to interpret their Femtalk in order to properly understand their needs and how we are to go about leading them and washing them clean.
  2. We are not women.  We can only discuss what we believe we must have from them as we build a redemptive community.
  3. Women as a whole are far more likely to resist the truth, partly because of their nature of being rebellious towards Biblical / masculine authority, and partly because it means taking away from them almost everything they believe they have won through feminist political and social action.

We can’t do (1) or (2) very easily because of (3).  Most of feminism could be summed up in the song, “Girls Just Want to Have Fun” — they want complete freedom to act as they wish and still get the marriage of their dreams later. The biblical model is just the opposite in almost every way.

The best women we can find who might contribute their perspectives to the discussion aren’t likely to do so. Those who are really good at telling us about it would be a tiny few among the precious few who get it.  This is why I value the input from Elspeth, Juliana, and Rowena, as well as Femosphere blogs like The Transformed Wife.

Redeeming Children

Regarding children, their redemption and their sanctification are much more likely to occur if their parents have a Headship type of relationship.  The reason divorce is so destructive to children’s well-being is because…

  1. It prevents them from becoming familiar with the presence and nature of God (as it is demonstrated through their parent’s relationship on a daily basis during their formative years).
  2. It destroys their inborn hope of redemption.
  3. It transforms a sanctified home environment into one of shame and fear.

The redemption and sanctification of children is an extremely important concept because a person’s childhood experiences set the trajectory for how they might ultimately find redemption and salvation later in life.

Redeeming Faux-Masculine Men from the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

CR and I discussed where we can go with the topic of redemption.  In his pilot post, he talked a lot about hierarchy types (i.e. Alpha, Beta, Sigma, Gamma, etc.), and my past studies of Faux-Masculine Archetypes figure largely here.

On this topic, Ed Hurst wrote,

“…we all have a little Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Sigma and even some Omega in us. It’s exceedingly rare when any man in real life is all one thing to the exclusion of every other profile Vox Day delineated in his hierarchy. What matters is that each of those types is an avatar of how the Devil works in men to keep them captive to his false world. None of them is truly Christlike, so it’s not a real “hierarchy” but simply a typology. Don’t aspire to be any one of them, but seek to understand how each of them needs something that only Christ can offer.

And because there is an established typology we can all refer to, it provides the grounds for suggesting ways we can redeem each man from the temptations and flaws inherent in each type. That we are obliged by God to deal with others is not a question anyone should have to ask. You are no doubt better equipped to handle some than others, but to dismiss one or another simply because it’s uncomfortable is not the way we build His Kingdom. You can’t drive them away and demand they change first, before they are fit to be in your company. Would you like to spend time before God without the blood covering of His Son?”

“I contend that this doesn’t mean excluding some of the types identified in the Sexual Hierarchy. Those are not cultural issues; those are fundamental to our human existence. You are not allowed to dismiss the Gamma Mamma’s Boy just because he’s annoying. You are not allowed to lock out the damaged Omega. You are obliged by the Great Commission to do all you can, whatever and however much that is. But it’s utterly stupid to pretend they are equals in the operations of the Body of Christ. They are weaker members in need of healing. The Body needs strong male leadership to be ready for them and to have a plan to handle their flaws.”

Radix Fidem: Redemption and Typology (2022-8-16)

“To the degree possible, you will identify the men in the body whom the Lord has blessed with the talents for handling the flaws of each different type. That’s part of the long-term plan of building a faith community. However, that takes place within the framework of the Covenant boundaries. Those boundaries are what saves your fleshly nature from the Devil’s domination. You don’t keep the Devil out by keeping out his captives; you take those captives from him by asserting holiness into their lives.”

Radix Fidem: Redemption and Typology (2022-8-16)

CR and I agreed that the dismissive attitude of men trying to model themselves on Vox Day’s Status Signaling Narrative is a serious problem, partly because Status Signaling aligns with the current feminist world view, and partly because it excludes the majority of average but decent men. Furthermore, Vox’s mantra, “Saving the seeds of civilization while the fire rushes over the forest”, focuses on societal order and fails to address the redemption of the individual man who may not subscribe to that philosophy for entirely understandable personal reasons.  What Ted got right is that many men refuse to face their limitations.  But he cannot deal with such men, even those of his own constituency, and you can scarcely talk about him without facing the wrath of his orbiters. Not because he encourages that, but because he draws a lot of wannabes, and they act defensive of their tribe in ways Vox never would, even though he rejects such men in principle. That’s the paradox of men in his position.

Closing Statements

This month, we’ll be examining the following aspects of Red Pill Redemption.

  1. The factors that are posing an obstacle to men’s personal and spiritual development.
  2. How men can identify these factors to help mentor them and foster their growth.
  3. What redemption looks like for several types of men.
  4. Strategies and techniques that men can use to consolidate on their assets and establish their personal domain of influence.
  5. The nature of the Black Pill and why it is a false paradigm.
  6. How men are discriminated against by other men.

I’ve hit on all these topics before, but this month we’ll concentrate on how to work around them so that more men stand a chance at finding redemption. 

We would really appreciate any of the following Christian Manosphere bloggers to join in this endeavor by writing blog posts geared towards the topic of Redemptive Headship and Masculinity.

Readers may like to think about the flaws that are characteristic of each type of man and how individuals get hung up on trying to be something they aren’t.  CR and I are both interested in hearing how some of the commenters think they could help redeem each type. We’re willing to bet the best answers will take the shape of fellowship and support in person.

If Scott’s visit with Jason was so redemptive, that should help to indicate something about the limits of online discussions. It really does require us to get our hands dirty touching the lives of others. Not that it answers all issues, but that it is part of the process, and it’s part of learning to live with people who struggle to change over long periods. Our compassion and patience is part of the redemption.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Agency, Attitude, Collective Strength, Communications, Determination, Discernment, Wisdom, Discipline, Faith Community, Fundamental Frame, God's Concept of Justice, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Identity, Inner Game, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Manosphere, Masculine Disciplines, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, MGTOW, Incels, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Personal Domain, Power, Prayer, Purpose, Relationships, Respect, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Sphere of Influence, Stewardship, Teaching, The Power of God, Trust, Zeitgeist Reports. Bookmark the permalink.

105 Responses to Red Pill Redemption

  1. info says:

    “How about we discuss this shameful rejection of women who aren’t naturally cute, but might be a real moral and spiritual jewel if you bothered to get to know them.”

    God designed our attractions. There is nothing wrong or shameful about not being attracted to certain women and vice versa. Given this reality of Genetic and Physical Health here:

    Little AC, Jones BC, Waitt C, Tiddeman BP, Feinberg DR, Perrett DI, et al. (2008) Symmetry Is Related to Sexual Dimorphism in Faces: Data Across Culture and Species. PLoS ONE 3(5): e2106. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0002106

    In fact, if Beauty is celebrated in the “Song of Songs”, it should be that at least a bare minimum of attractiveness is required.

    In fact, when a servant of Abraham prayed about finding the Ideal Wife for Isaac he found Rebekah:

    Genesis 24:12-16
    12 “O LORD, God of my master Abraham,” he prayed, “please grant me success today, and show kindness to my master Abraham. 13 Here I am, standing beside the spring, and the daughters of the townspeople are coming out to draw water. 14 Now may it happen that the girl to whom I say, ‘Please let down your jar that I may drink,’ and who responds, ‘Drink, and I will water your camels as well’ — let her be the one You have appointed for Your servant Isaac. By this I will know that You have shown kindness to my master.”
    15 Before the servant had finished praying, Rebekah came out with her jar on her shoulder. She was the daughter of Bethuel son of Milcah, the wife of Abraham’s brother Nahor. 16 Now the girl was very beautiful, a virgin who had not had relations with any man. She went down to the spring, filled her jar, and came up again.

    Character is most important. And may even change one’s perception of attractiveness. Given how Cleopatra VII despite not being the best looking women in existence was able to charm Roman commanders.

    Like

    • catacombresident says:

      There is no shame in what you find attractive in the flesh. It is shameful to let Satan use that distract you from God’s purpose in your life. I contend that men are capable of building a deep lifelong commitment to a woman based on obeying the Lord.

      Liked by 1 person

      • info says:

        What God designed in the flesh in this case is Good not bad. So Satan isn’t responsible for this.

        But then again character needs to be found out.

        Like

  2. info says:

    It may be that some Christian Men cannot avoid an attractive woman with a body count. Only that he must count on her genuine faith and salvation. Preferably younger who will likely have a lower body count.

    Like

  3. anonymous_ng says:

    “How about we discuss this shameful rejection of women who aren’t naturally cute, but might be a real moral and spiritual jewel if you bothered to get to know them.”

    Why would I feel shame about this?

    Let’s be honest, “aren’t naturally cute” is code for fat, just like “she has a great personality” is also.

    Just say no.

    Using that same logic, we might shame women for overlooking the man who is a heroin addict or alcoholic. After all, he might be a real moral and spiritual jewel.

    Liked by 2 people

    • locustsplease says:

      I can’t watch those big girls dip everything in chicken bacon ranch sauce!

      Like

    • Rock Kitaro says:

      Have to agree here. I understand Catacomb’s sentiments though. I think it would simply behoove this “moral and spiritual jewel” if they came to terms with their looks. Because, honestly, I don’t think that my lack of interest in dating them romantically means that I’m rejecting them. I’m more than willing to give them my companionship as a Spiritual brother and good platonic friend.

      Also…from what I’ve found, just because a person might not be cute in the face, there are other things she can do to make herself sexually attractive. I know plenty of fellas who pine after women who don’t have the Disney princess faces, but they hit the gym and have banging bodies, making their overall presence beautiful even if they’re lacking in the face area. …and invertedly, I’ve seen a lot of women who are ridiculously beautiful in the face, but they let themselves “go”. (not that any of this is super important to the main point of this essay…just pointing it out)

      Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        This really only describes a very, very few women. Only the bottom 20% of women “aren’t naturally cute”.

        Most women are attractive to at least some men out there.

        I also don’t believe that there are women who can’t get affection or attention from men. Or, at least, no evidence has been presented to support that claim. See my discussion on Myra West, below.

        Liked by 1 person

      • anonymous_ng says:

        Here’s a video talking about how much more attractive men can be facially just by getting leaner. There was a jpeg I remember from back in the day that showed a young woman losing weight and going from say 170# to 120# and it was very illuminating how much more attractive she got by losing weight and putting on a nice dress.

        Liked by 1 person

      • caterpillar345 says:

        @anonymous_ng
        100% agree. Same with long/short hair. I’ve known a couple women who are thin, attractive, and had long hair and decided to cut it to shoulder length. It’s surprising to me that I find them noticeably less attractive.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        “I’ve known a couple women who are thin, attractive, and had long hair and decided to cut it to shoulder length. It’s surprising to me that I find them noticeably less attractive.”

        Your comment brought to my memory a college-aged girl who attended a church I used to belong to. She was demure, feminine, smart, thin, and she had long beautiful hair. She was, by far, the most attractive girl in the young single adult fellowship. All the guys kissed the ground she walked on and held her up as the icon of Christian female beauty.

        Then a day came when she announced to everyone that she was cutting her hair. Everyone was shocked, and the guys were horrified. After the ripples smoothed out from the big splash this announcement had created, people began to question whether she would go through with it. Then she actually did cut her hair VERY short. Immediately, she faded into the crowd as being no different from any of the other girls.

        She was in my mixed small group (8 people), so we asked her why she cut her hair when she knew it would affect her social life this way. She said she was tired of all the “fake attention” (her words) she got because of her hair. She said she wanted to be seen as a “real person”, and not as an “object of male desire”. She also wanted to see which men liked her for her “other qualities”. So essentially, she cut her hair to filter through the men expressing interest in her. It was somewhat of a Red Pillish wake up for everyone, because other than being demure, feminine, smart, and thin, she really didn’t have much character or personality. Personally, I always thought she was cold and aloof, and her cutting her hair was the first sign of any character I saw in her, and this was not a particularly good sign of character IMO. One of the other guys in our group callously (and truthfully) told her that if she still had too many guys chasing her after cutting her hair, then she could gain 40 pounds and start cussing like a drunk sailor. All the guys laughed at this quip (except the leader), and all the girls glared at us.

        Looking back, I suppose her cutting her hair was a social experiment that needed to be done as an example to everyone at church. Everyone had mixed opinions about this at the time, but the thing I learned was that “a woman’s glory is in her hair” (1 Corinthians 11:15). A woman who cuts her hair to see which and how much people love her is like a man who quits his job simply to cut down the number of friends he has and find out who his true friends are. Of course it doesn’t go well, but there is a lot to be learned from it.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. dpmonahan says:

    Thanks for the shout out but I don’t feel competent to teach masculinity to other men. I only started to figure this stuff out a few years ago thanks in part to Dalrock, who basically helped me remember what I knew back in 10th grade. I have my bros that I can encourage and support and that is about it for now.

    I do think there is a quiet market for teaching Christian women to respect their husbands’ leadership. It has to be sold the right way but I feel like there are self-proclaimed Christian Conservative women who are struggling with their BP mindset and need some help connecting the dots. They need a Lady Dalrock.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      D. P. Monahan,

      “I don’t feel competent to teach masculinity to other men…”

      “I do think there is a quiet market for teaching Christian women to respect their husbands’ leadership. It has to be sold the right way but I feel like there are self-proclaimed Christian Conservative women who are struggling with their BP mindset and need some help connecting the dots.”

      I agree that there is a dire need for Christian Red Pill teaching that is geared towards women. Female Femosphere bloggers are rare and most of them don’t last very long in the blogosphere.

      Since you mentioned it, maybe it would be better for you to write about Redemptive Headship as it pertains to Femininity. From my impression, Cornerstone and D. Bradley seem to write from this perspective.

      Like

      • info says:

        Just a little offtopic. What I find appalling is how many “Conservative” Fathers look to masculinized women and masculine adjacent women as role models for their daughters like Ripley, Furiosa and Sarah Connor.

        “Strong” masculine women. Not actual feminine role models like Mary, Ruth, Rebekah and Sarah.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Rock Kitaro says:

      “I do think there is a quiet market for teaching Christian women to respect their husbands’ leadership.”

      I just learned about a trend that kicked off on Tiktok called “Soft Girl Era.” Apparently the masculine (tatted, cursing, aggressive) black women are endeavoring their soft femininity to get the man they want. Sadly, however, when you hear some of them talk about it and why they’re doing, you’ll find that it’s anything but true Femininity. They’re only doing it to get what they want, be pampered, and have men do things for them. They don’t talk about being a genuinely good person, treating others with love and kindness, or how to be a good future mother to their children. It’s all about them.

      Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        Bait and switch.

        Liked by 1 person

      • dpmonahan says:

        They are better off building good habits with imperfect or selfish intentions than having no good habits at all.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        Rock,
        Re: Soft Girl Era. I see this as being an incremental change predicted by the proverbial pendulum. After a time, they’ll realize what the Manosphere realized a decade ago — that you have to actually make yourself into a better person to see significant changes in your love life.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elspeth says:

        Being somewhat familiar with all of this (Christelyn Karazin was the OG nearly 20 years ago), I have to say that one of my biggest disappointments with it was the seemingly selfish motivations behind it.

        However, given the reality of how far removed many of these women have been from seeing a true representation of masculinity and femininity (they feed off of and complement each other in relationships), there is a market out there for teaching young women about feminine energy, presence, and the innate virtues that come with that.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. okrahead says:

    Thanks for the shout out, Jack. I will think on this for a while before I write a post. A few quick thoughts on the subject:

    Stumbling block for red pilled men: Bitterness. The Bible warns us against letting a root of bitterness spring up in our hearts; I believe the black pill comes from red pill knowledge curdling into bitterness.

    Stumbling block for western women: Lack of humility. To acknowledge a need for redemption requires humility, a trait that is not a strong suit for the modern western woman. Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before the fall.

    I believe a “great reset” is indeed on its way, although not the one our supposed betters expect. If it is not the FINAL reset then many who were proud will be made humble, etc. Where the carnal man sees disaster the spiritual man sees opportunity.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Pingback: Fascist Self-Test and Implications | okrahead

  7. Oscar says:

    A whole post, and multiple comments on the subject of redemption, and not one mention of confession, or repentance.

    Let me make this very clear. There is no redemption absent confession and repentance.

    The problem is not that Androspherians don’t believe in redemption for gammas or women (although that is true of some), and I can prove it. I submit to you the following evidence.

    1)

    Ted Beale (Vox Day) is probably the internet’s harshest critic of gamma males. Hell, he invented the term, as far as I know. Yet in the video above, he explains how a gamma male can redeem himself. (1) Start being brutally honest with yourself (this is confession), and (2) change your behavior (this is repentance).

    2) I think we can all agree that thedeti is one of the Androsphere’s harshest critics of women’s unwillingness to take responsibility for their role in the current dating/marriage mess (this is not a criticism of deti), and rightly so. And yet, thedeti has — over, and over, and over again — explained how women can redeem themselves.

    In fact, he explained it again just a few days ago.

    His prescription (correct me if I”m wrong, deti) basically amounts to (1) women need to start being honest about what they’re attracted to (this is confession), and (2) women need submit to, and be grateful for their provider husbands, even if they’re not attracted to them (this is repentance).

    Again, the problem is not that Androspherians do not believe in redemption for gammas or women. The problem is that gammas and women want redemption without confession or repentance.

    I hate to break it to everyone, but the universe God created doesn’t work that way. You want redemption? The price is confession and repentance.

    Don’t like it? Don’t want to pay the price? Enjoy your unredeemed life.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

      Penance is a Sacrament for a reason.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “A whole post, and multiple comments on the subject of redemption, and not one mention of confession, or repentance.

      Let me make this very clear. There is no redemption absent confession and repentance.”

      Confession and repentance are a part of “2. Rectifying who they are with who they are in Christ.” What this looks like for each man is different.

      Just to be clear, I’ve added this to the post.

      Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      “His prescription (correct me if I”m wrong, deti) basically amounts to (1) women need to start being honest about what they’re attracted to (this is confession), and (2) women need submit to, and be grateful for their provider husbands, even if they’re not attracted to them (this is repentance).”

      That’s quite simplified but it’s a good place to start. Women also need to be honest with themselves about pretty much everything – their behaviors, that what they’re doing isn’t working, and that they’re not going to get to marry gigaChad who they had sex with a few times (confession).

      Then they need to change behaviors. That includes stopping extramarital sex and accepting the very real possibility that they might never marry. They need to accept the virtual certainty that whoever is willing to marry them will not be as sexually attractive as the men they had sex with before. Then they need to take action consistent with that (repentance).

      Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        Thedeti wrote,

        “[Women] need to accept the virtual certainty that whoever is willing to marry them will not be as sexually attractive as the men they had sex with before. Then they need to take action consistent with that (repentance).”

        Earlier, deti said that one of the biggest problems in marriage is that women marry men they are not attracted to, as this leads to a dead bedroom. Do any readers think the woman’s repentance is going to change that?

        Like

  8. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    Looking forward to this. I’m tired of beating the dead horse of female attraction. No more. We keep saying our mission needs to be first, yet all we talk about is wimmimz. Stop. Let’s turn the corner and talk about the real work that needs to be done. Looks like Oscar has already set the tone for us. Well done. Been hoping this day would come for a while, let’s not waste it.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      Bardelys,

      For those men called to marriage, stuff like attraction and arousal is important, so we will have to come back to this. I hope I’ve made it clear that sanctification is the goal and that we’re not a bunch of randy salivating PUAs, but I know it’s easy to get sidetracked. Like I’ve said before, a discussion of sanctification is incomplete without also addressing the sexual aspects.

      Those readers who are not married nor called to marriage, or who simply wish to avoid the subject for personal reasons can skip those posts. That’s why I include a header at the top (i.e. the byline, Readership, and other notes).

      Liked by 2 people

    • thedeti says:

      The harsh truth about this is that the “real work that needs to be done” will result in a lot more men going their own way, a lot more men being sent away, and a lot fewer marriages. It will certainly result in more men refusing fatherhood. This means more and more men are not going to marry, and will have to remain celibate if they are to remain faithful to God and the Word.

      Like

      • Bardelys the Magnificent says:

        I have been reliably informed by various “Christian” females, in reacting to the complaints of men in the Christian dating scene, that one does not need to get married to get to Heaven. So be it. We’re both about to find out soon enough.

        Bishop Williamson said something interesting in regards to how we got Modernism. He said that the women always follow the men and try to emulate them. Men in Revolutionary America and France became obsessed with their own liberty at the expense of society, and while it took a hundred or so years the women flowed suit. If we start taking steps to be pleasing in the eyes of God, and reject the company of women who refuse, they will fall back in line. Might take a few years, though. I’d rather go to Heaven by myself than be dragged to hell by a desire to soothe loneliness and get some p-sleeve.

        Liked by 2 people

  9. thedeti says:

    “How about we discuss this shameful rejection of women who aren’t naturally cute, but might be a real moral and spiritual jewel if you bothered to get to know them.”

    That sounds too much like, “If you won’t marry a fat chick or an ugly chick, you need to check your heart because you’re not a real Christian and you’re going to hell.” I reject that 100%.

    The problem here is not that men reject women who “aren’t naturally cute”. The problem is women rejecting non-Chads.

    Men aren’t required to date or marry women they’re not sexually attracted to. In fact, men really just can’t do that. If he’s not sexually attracted to her, it’s just not going to happen.

    Men really don’t need exhortation on this. Most women are at least a little attractive to most men, and that’s all that’s necessary. I know women don’t like reading or hearing this, but “a little bit sexually attracted” is all that’s required for us men. Your average man will accept most women out there. All she needs to do is be cute enough, be sexually attractive enough. That’s a very, very low, easy-to-meet bar. Very easy.

    Luckily for women, even “women who aren’t naturally cute” are attractive to at least SOME men out there. Most women are not getting rejected because they aren’t cute enough. (In fact, most women are not getting rejected – they’re doing most of the rejecting). To the limited extent they’re being rejected, it’s because they lack the character and the skills necessary for anything but short term couplings.

    Telling men they need to consider the fat chicks and the ugly chicks and the chicks they’re not sexually attracted to is a complete nonstarter. I’m done hearing shaming on this score. Men aren’t the problem here.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Jack says:

    “How about we discuss this shameful rejection of women who aren’t naturally cute, but might be a real moral and spiritual jewel if you bothered to get to know them.”

    “That sounds too much like, “If you won’t marry a fat chick or an ugly chick, you need to check your heart because you’re not a real Christian and you’re going to hell.” I reject that 100%.”

    A couple commenters have interpreted “not naturally cute” as “fat” or “fugly”. But I didn’t get this impression. Instead, the idea I got was a concept from Scott’s Recipe for a Meet Cute (2021-7-24).

    “Here, were talking at least one millionth of a millimeter above the threshold of that particular man’s attraction floor. If it is any higher, then he’ll get “wowed”, lose focus, and screw it up.”

    “Of course, that threshold varies slightly from man to man. […] All men have a different floor, but where that floor is doesn’t seem to matter too much. What matters is that she is barely across the threshold.”

    I think part of the problem is that women don’t register on men’s radars unless she immediately passes the boner test. But like Scott said, if he is “wowed” too much, he’ll screw it up and then he has to deal with rejection, a loss of confidence, and possibly bitterness. Such a woman is too far above his threshold for an authentic relationship to develop. I think CR is saying that men should open their eyes to “see” and consider women in the SMV bracket that Scott is referring to. Of course, fat and fugly chicks don’t qualify because they are too far below this threshold.

    “The problem here is not that men reject women who “aren’t naturally cute”. The problem is women rejecting non-Chads.”

    With regard to what I wrote above, this is the same problem coming from both males and females. Men reject women who aren’t hot enough to give them an erection, and women reject men who aren’t Chad enough to arouse them.

    Aside from physical attraction, most people’s expectation of finding love involves having an experience of grace, IOW, they want to feel like they’re getting with someone who is better than what they deserve. But p0rn ruins this for men, and the princess mentality and the carousel ruins this for women. People don’t understand how much these lies and false mythos eradicates God’s grace in their personal lives.

    Like

    • thedeti says:

      “I think part of the problem is that women don’t register on men’s radars unless she immediately passes the boner test.”

      “Men reject women who aren’t hot enough to give them an erection…”

      Yes. Good thing that 80%+ of women ARE hot enough to give most men an erection. Good thing that 80%+ of women DO pass the boner test.

      Even if she doesn’t pass a few men’s boner tests, she’ll still pass SOME men’s boner tests. And that’s good enough.

      Like

      • thedeti says:

        Jack, you’re severely underestimating women’s attractiveness. Most women are sexually attractive enough for some man out there.

        Most men are not sexually attractive enough for ANY women out there.

        When it comes to finding people to be attracted to, men are not the problem here.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Jack says:

        Thedeti,

        “Most men are not sexually attractive enough for ANY women out there.”

        Yes, you’ve made a clear case that this is a huge problem.

        “When it comes to finding people to be attracted to, men are not the problem here.”

        You’ve said that women are the problem, that women need to marry men that they’re not sexually attracted to, but this in itself creates the situation that leads to dead bedrooms and failed marriages. I suppose your point is that marriage is a lost cause. Isn’t this view essentially the Black Pill?

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Thedeti,

        “Yes. Good thing that 80%+ of women ARE hot enough to give most men an erection. Good thing that 80%+ of women DO pass the boner test.

        Even if she doesn’t pass a few men’s boner tests, she’ll still pass SOME men’s boner tests. And that’s good enough.”

        You’re missing CR’s point. The boner test is not a reliable indicator of marital compatibility and success. For most men, it’s a distraction from those qualities and issues that would matter most in this regard.

        Likewise, the Chad test is not a reliable indicator for women either.

        Like

      • anonymous_ng says:

        “You’re missing CR’s point. The boner test is not a reliable indicator of marital compatibility and success. For most men, it’s a distraction from those qualities and issues that would matter most in this regard.”

        It’s not sufficient, but it’s necessary.

        Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        “You’re missing CR’s point. The boner test is not a reliable indicator of marital compatibility and success. For most men, it’s a distraction from those qualities and issues that would matter most in this regard.”

        Jack, the point is that you and CR are making it sound like good Christian men are rejecting women because they “aren’t naturally cute”. I am telling you right now that that is not a problem. Like, not at all. Most women are cute enough, and that’s all that’s required.

        Women are NOT being rejected because they “aren’t naturally cute”. They’re not being rejected at all. Women are the ones doing the rejecting. To the extent women are getting rejected, it’s for marriage – because they lack the necessary character and skills.

        I am not saying women have to marry men they’re not sexually attracted to. When I say “you women need to date, marry, have sex with, and have babies with, these nice kind good men you say you want”, I’m making the point that women aren’t marrying these nice kind good men they say they want because women do not want these men. Even Christian women don’t want these men. Isn’t all this obvious?

        Liked by 3 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        “You’ve said that women are the problem, that women need to marry men that they’re not sexually attracted to, but this in itself creates the situation that leads to dead bedrooms and failed marriages. I suppose your point is that marriage is a lost cause. Isn’t this view essentially the Black Pill?”

        Marriage itself is not a problem. Women being secure in marriage is a BIG problem. Let’s face it, very very few women are self aware enough and biblically astute enough to recognize the tendencies of their own shortcomings when it comes to marriage. One of the chief offenses of married women is becoming insufferable, domineering harpies when they see their husband as a powerless, nutless weakling (I used to be one of them). These are the 80% of men that thedeti has expounded upon for years.

        What changed in my life is that I got to the point where the financial pain of divorce became less than the pain of actually staying married to an insufferable, domineering harpy and I was open about this fact. I will attest that when a woman is uncertain of her status, especially if she is concerned about appearances, she will work to attain it or maintain it.

        Having the state involved in marriage to give women “a safety net” is one of the worst developments in God honoring marriage ever. It robs men of the financial, marriage and parental security that help them be the head of their household. It’s no wonder that frivorce, financial servitude and alienation from his children are the rewards of the suffering beta. Heartise commandment VI applies to marriage too y’all. It’s why I will counsel my sons to protect their pre-marriage assets with a trust, go sans marriage license and keep their finances separate after the vows.

        The vast majority of women only understand and respond to the raw power of authority. They try to rebel against it every chance they think they can get away with it, from Eve in paradise to the wives of the married men who read this blog. A small percentage of men can gain this authority through “tingly respect” model, but historically most have had to rely on the authority of God given headship and the rights to property and children it entails. Basically, the authority of headship helped keep women’s behavior somewhat in line and gave the majority of men a fighting chance in marriage.

        Liked by 6 people

      • feeriker says:

        “Yes. Good thing that 80%+ of women ARE hot enough to give most men an erection.”

        I think the real figure is closer to 98 percent of women, but your point stands. Men as a sex have much lower attraction floors than women. In the event that some … “not cute” woman can’t attract a man for a relationship, it’s much more likely that it’s her personality (i.e., she’s wearing her “Superb*tch” or “Turboslore” costume) that’s driving the men away. If any of us step out in public and take a look around us, we’ll see lots of average looking or better-than-average looking men paired up with less-than-gorgeous (sometimes borderline hideous-looking) wives and girlfriends. Men indeed are not the problem here.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Jack says:

        Cornerstone has some evidence that suggests CR’s viewpoint applies in some areas of the west.

        Similar to how most men are invisible to women, I believe there is a subclass of young women who are invisible to men, simply because they’re not sexed up enough to draw attention to themselves. Looking back at my own life, I know I passed up some nice girls like this, because I was more attracted to girls that were already “activated”. I was too young, naive, and Blue Pilled to know that virgin girls are “unactivated”.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Joe2 says:

        “You’re missing CR’s point. The boner test is not a reliable indicator of marital compatibility and success. For most men, it’s a distraction from those qualities and issues that would matter most in this regard.”

        The boner test is very important to women. Women seek and need to know whether they’ve passed the boner test with the man they are with.

        The boner test serves as validation that they still have their feminine charms and haven’t lost it. It makes no difference that 80%+ of women will pass the test. They need that validation on each individual case by case basis.

        Like

    • info says:

      I have to agree with Deti given how Men do indeed according to known data find many more women attractive than women find me attractive.

      I suspect that CR use of the word “shameful” gives the impression that Deti perceives. Is it really shameful to have Good God given desires?

      Liked by 2 people

  11. Red Pill Apostle says:

    Up thread, Jack questions whether women should suck it up and accept men that they aren’t attracted to and then follows this to the natural conclusion that the course of action risks dead bedrooms. So is there redemption in any of the logical options that we can see?

    I’ve been reading the different gospel accounts of Jesus feeding the 5,000 and this morning was the account in John 6. Having read the accounts in the other 3 gospels first I think this is the most descriptive version when it comes to laying bare the human condition of limited vision. The 12 disciples could not wrap their minds around who Jesus was and what that meant for the realm of possibilities. They were busy trying to figure out how to buy food and concluding it was impossible given the circumstances. What they could have been arguing about is who should be gathering rocks for Jesus to turn into potatoes and grass for him to turn into tenderloin (because why couldn’t he skip the part where the cow has to eat the grass first in order to make the steak).

    This is why God tells us to have faith like a child. Children don’t see the limits, they only see what they can dream up, and we’re to believe in God that way. Since marriage is the foundational unit for building his kingdom we know that the institution and also individual marriages are important to God. I think God is going to redeem men and women in marriage in a way that we do not see coming. At the very least he is keeping a remnant for himself, because throughout human history that is what he has done to fulfill his covenant.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. Quiet Desperation says:

    Has anyone had success helping a pathologically angry wife get over her anger? Scripture, visits with pastor, and direct discussion over many years have had no effect. She says she hates being angry but can’t make it through a day without yelling at somebody. The older children are now doing the same thing. Such a destructive influence.

    Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      Yes. My experience with it was to say “you’re either changing, or I’m leaving, I’m taking the kids, I’m dragging you through the nastiest, most expensive divorce this county has ever seen, and I will tell your parents and friends and employer all about why this is all happening”.

      Like

    • Jack says:

      Quiet Desperation,

      In general, you have to use operant conditioning to make her getting angry more painful and troublesome to her than her NOT getting angry. Deti’s suggestion is one way to do this, and this method is known to either make things better or blow up the marriage. In centuries past, corporal punishment was a common method of employing operant conditioning, but this method is no longer socially acceptable, and carries significant consequential risks to men who do so (i.e. Duluth). There are other ways to use operant conditioning. You’ll have to experiment with this and see what works for you.

      To begin with, first study how operant conditioning works. You can find lots of information online. Then, you might like to try withdrawing positive attention from her. This is effective because attention is an important medium of interaction for women. Tell her that whenever she gets angry, you’re not going to deal with it. She has to learn to control herself. Then whenever she gets angry, just walk out the door and don’t come back for a couple hours. Let her stew in her anger all alone and think about how she is disrupting the family life. This method worked for me, but it took 1-2 years for her to get her act together.

      Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      QD — Dalrock used to leave his house and go hunting/fishing when his wife acted up and she finally put the pieces together and got herself under control. You can calmly take the kids and leave every time the Mrs. acts up or remove the kids from her presence and tell her to leave for a set time.

      I noticed the one thing you didn’t mention that has been tried is your wife praying. Prayer is a chief means for aligning our hearts with God. When we don’t pray often, we tend to wander off track no matter how much scripture we read or how many pastors we speak with. Personally, I’d tell your wife to pray for 1 minute every hour she’s awake to have God line her heart up with His. Then as her husband, you hold her to the standard.

      I personally went with thedeti’s suggestion with Mrs. Apostle, telling her bluntly the lines, that if crossed, will result in me filing for divorce, but this is not for everyone or every situation. My boundaries are very specific and very easy to avoid such as using my sons against me in an argument or threatening divorce to win an argument. Understand that in taking this path I am always ready to file. Some men can’t handle that, but because of my history with my wife I have no problem.

      Choose wisely, but whatever you do, don’t maintain the status quo.

      Like

      • anonymous_ng says:

        “Understand that in taking this path I am always ready to file. Some men can’t handle that, but because of my history with my wife I have no problem.”

        True, but I think sometimes there is also a spiritual component to being ready to do a thing.

        When I was still paying maintenance and child support, my ex used to say regularly that she could take me back to court to get more money.

        The last time she said that, I was on vacation in California. We had an amicable enough divorce that we didn’t use lawyers. When I returned home from California, I retained a lawyer who told me that she was unlikely to succeed in her stated ability to extract more money from me.

        I didn’t tell her that I’d retained a lawyer, but something changed because she never brought it up again.

        Like

      • Quiet Desperation says:

        Thank you. I will follow your suggestion to have her pray. I will reevaluate after implementing that approach.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        anonymous_ng,

        “True, but I think sometimes there is also a spiritual component to being ready to do a thing.”

        “I didn’t tell her that I’d retained a lawyer, but something changed because she never brought it up again.”

        What you are describing is a power shift. Frankly, your ex may have also consulted a lawyer who told her the same thing yours told you. She was trying to still exert power over you and child support was how she did it. It’s no different than a wife threatening sex to exert power over her husband.

        In my case laying out the conditions for remaining married to Mrs. Apostle was a substantial power shift, because the person who cares more about principles than the relationship has the power. (Side note, women care deeply about relationships so this should be an easy win for men as long and the dreaded pedestal doesn’t show up.) She expressed how my commitment to her having conditions wasn’t how it was supposed to be was telling. Basically, she took my commitment to marriage used it as leverage against me for years. Now, my commitment to her is performance based and I will end it should those conditions not be met.

        That she has not tested those boundaries yet is evidence that she believes I will divorce her. FYI, this reestablishment of the hierarchy God intended is only the first step. If I stop here, I’ll miss out on some of those things that can actually be good in marriage. The next step is to make her feel cared for enough to begin to flourish.

        Like

      • thedeti says:

        “(Side note, women care deeply about relationships so this should be an easy win for men as long and the dreaded pedestal doesn’t show up.)”

        Women care about relationships; but they care more about how the herd perceives them and their positions in the herd. Women care more about their social status in the herd. That can also be used to a man’s advantage. Divorce is a huge status hit for a woman. It shows she was unable to keep a man.

        “That she has not tested those boundaries yet is evidence that she believes I will divorce her.”

        Yes. And that there’s been a change for the better in her character. Only downside is that if she tests the boundaries you have to make good on the threat.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “Women care about relationships; but they care more about how the herd perceives them and their positions in the herd. Women care more about their social status in the herd. That can also be used to a man’s advantage.”

        That’s why community is so important. If the herd sees divorce as an inherently shameful failure, each individual member of the herd is a lot less likely to squeeze that trigger.

        Liked by 1 person

  13. Hedge says:

    Can women’s attraction be improved by repentance?

    Yes, as has been widely discussed, a large part of women’s lack of attraction is constant dissatisfaction and disrespect. These are sinful attitudes, therefore can be changed by repentance. When you stop feeding your negative attitudes and start feeding positive, godly ones, your feelings change. This can result in attraction. The longer the bad attitudes have been in place, the slower the turnaround in feelings will be.

    I find it hard to believe that God designed most men to be unattractive to most women. If women are finding most men unattractive, there is something wrong, therefore it is ultimately fixable by applying God’s teaching. (Which just means that it is possible, not that it is likely or easy.)

    The bible tells women to respect their husbands, reverence him, do him good not evil all the days of his life and to not be afraid with any astonishment.
    True repentance leads to trying to apply those teachings and applying them changes things. God knows how we are wired.

    As Sharkly has said, a culture where men are by default respected is one where all women are looking up to all men to some degree. That raises the attraction floor off the bat. It evens the playing field. In that scenario, men have a place of respect (that they can lose by truly bad behaviour), just as women have a place of beauty (that they can lose through bad behaviour).

    Liked by 4 people

    • thedeti says:

      “Can women’s attraction be improved by repentance?”

      No, not really. What is improved by a woman’s repentance is her ability to make it work in a relationship with the kind of man she has or can get.

      That is NOT the same thing as attraction.

      Like

      • Hedge says:

        Maybe so; I am not intelligent or clear thinking enough to argue with you. All I can say is that my relationship with my husband has improved immeasurably in the last eight years or so that I have been reading in the ‘Manosphere’. Your words have contributed to that improvement. I figured that God commanded me to love my husband and that that included pleasing him in every way. I thought that if God commanded that, then he would make capable of it – genuinely. I am surprised how good the results are, but it has taken me time. At first I was discouraged by your words, but attraction is mostly in a woman’s mind, it seems. We all know that women change their minds. I did try to do the ‘good Christian wife role’ for years before that and got nowhere. Anyway, thank you for your help in improving my marriage. I know I am a random internet person, but I mean that sincerely.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        Hedge:

        All the credit for your marriage’s improvements goes to you, not to me. Regardless, I am glad you believe anything I said helped you in some small way. Blessings.

        Like

  14. Hedgy says:

    On attractive women — Jack’s description of ‘activated’ versus ‘unactivated’ is very useful, in my opinion. Maybe it is not so much about raw looks as the image or vitality that they are exuding. If a girl is quiet and calm she doesn’t project the idea of excitement and receptivity. She may come across as hard work, uninterested, or boring. The excitable girls project a promise of, well excitement! I don’t know, I’m an introverted woman with introverted daughters, so maybe we just need to work on being more friendly and open.

    I have sought to understand what true femininity is because I know I lack it and good examples are not easily found. It is hard to define. I have found some of the best clues in men’s descriptions of women they value, but it is still hard to put your finger on it. Maybe some of these women Jack mentions passing over were attractive enough physically but weren’t projecting femininity actively. Doing so without being overtly sexual is a lost art.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “Maybe some of these women Jack mentions passing over were attractive enough physically but weren’t projecting femininity actively. Doing so without being overtly sexual is a lost art.”

      I agree that true femininity is a lost art. The modern popular image of femininity is more akin to a headstrong hoe.

      By “activated”, I mean sexually activated, not personality. They’ve had sexual “awakening” and thus give off an aura of being sexually virile. Such people are most probably also sexually active. Being sexually activated appears attractive to both men and women. Men are attracted to sexed up women, and women are attracted to men who are sexually active. So my larger point is that men are not “seeing” virgins and are passing them over because those women are sexual nubes and don’t give off a sexual vibe. Men should be aware of their natural attraction to women who are sexually active/activated, and pay more attention to women who are NOT like that. Same goes for women seeking men for marriage.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Anonymous says:

        Yes, I thought that was what you meant and I think it is true. Then I got lost in the weeds conflating things.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “The modern popular image of femininity is more akin to a headstrong hoe.”

        Moderns can’t even define the word “woman”. How are they supposed to define “femininity”?

        Like

    • thedeti says:

      “If a girl is quiet and calm she doesn’t project the idea of excitement and receptivity. She may come across as hard work, uninterested, or boring.”

      Those girls are still getting attention. It just isn’t desired attention from the hot attractive men these women want. Women want those hot players — it’s just that they want those hot players tamed to do what those women want, which is, at least initially, “don’t demand sex from me”.

      “I’m an introverted woman with introverted daughters, so maybe we just need to work on being more friendly and open.”

      You evidently didn’t do too badly for yourself. If you were once an unactivated virgin, you were somehow able to find a man to impregnate and marry you, yes? Or at least impregnate you. If you, an introverted woman were able to do this, surely 98% of other women could as well.

      I just don’t see what’s so damn hard about this. It is JUST NOT TRUE that men are ignoring you and your daughters. I guarantee you that your daughters are — or will be — ignoring men who want them. I guarantee you your daughters have more male attention than they will know what to do with.

      It’s just that that male attention is coming from men they’re not sexually attracted to.

      “Maybe some of these women Jack mentions passing over were attractive enough physically but weren’t projecting femininity actively.”

      These women got more male attention than anyone — even the women themselves — were aware of. Well, those women knew it. They just ignored it because it was not desired attention from men they wanted.

      Hedge, you are getting male attention. So are your daughters. From the moment they start puberty they’re getting attention. It’s just that most of that attention is from men you and they don’t want, don’t desire, and don’t notice.

      Liked by 1 person

  15. thedeti says:

    Jack,

    I was preparing to let this sub-discussion go, and in fact was hoping to. But I can’t let this go without a response.

    “Cornerstone has some evidence that suggests CR’s viewpoint applies in some areas of the west.”

    Sure. Anecdotal evidence. And it does not describe a “large” cohort of women. It describes a small, infinitesimally small, group of women, most of whom have social or mental deficits like the one in the videos attached to proprietor’s post.

    “Similar to how most men are invisible to women, I believe there is a subclass of young women who are invisible to men, simply because they’re not sexed up enough to draw attention to themselves.”

    I was going to use another, more direct and scatological, term, but I toned it down. Suffice it to say that I don’t agree with you.

    These are exactly the women their SMV/RMV counterparts want. These are exactly the women that men are saying they want for marriage but can’t get their attention. The woman in the videos in prop’s post — there is no possible way this woman isn’t getting male attention. I don’t believe that for one second. She’s getting attention — it’s just that it’s attention from men she isn’t sexually attracted to or men who just want to use her for sex. That might be unwanted attention, but it is still attention.

    Young, slim, tattooless, pierceless, naturally colored haired, women under age 27 don’t have to draw attention to themselves. All they have to do is exist and they get attention. All they have to do is dress well, do their hair and makeup, have functioning vital signs, and go to any public place, and they’ll get attention.

    The main reason this woman doesn’t get the male attention she claims to want is because her parents poorly socialized her and didn’t prepare her for the society they thrust her into. The other main reason this woman doesn’t get male attention (to the extent that’s true, which i don’t believe it is) is because our society has so beaten down and crushed men that they don’t even know how to act anymore. Men are scared to death that a woman who looks like that will doxx them, try to cancel them, report them to police and employers, and otherwise destroy their lives, that they can’t even muster it up to go talk to a woman like this. That might not be her fault; but it’s not men’s fault either.

    Most women with any level of physical attractiveness at all have had some sexual experience with men under their belts. And they lie about it. Most women who claim to be virgins aren’t truly virgins. They’ve had some less-than-PIV sexual experience, and a woman who has had that experience isn’t a babe in the woods totally green “not sexually activated” virgin.

    “Looking back at my own life, I know I passed up some nice girls like this, because I was more attracted to girls that were already “activated”. I was too young, naive, and Blue Pilled to know that virgin girls are “unactivated”.”

    Most of those girls weren’t virgins.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. thedeti says:

    Some random thoughts:

    1) I also don’t think that most women are going to agree with Proprietor’s suggestions, namely: A woman like the one in the video (early 20s) would be best matched to a man in his early 30s who is prepared to take on a wife. This woman is primed for marriage. Are moms like Elspeth prepared to marry thair daughters off to men who are at least 10 years older than they are?

    2) Most women like the woman in the video are simply not being fully honest about their lives or their backgrounds. Women lie about their sexual experience. Women lie about what they want. Women lie about what they’ve done. Women lie about what they will and will not accept.

    3) let’s presume the women Proprietor is talking about are for real – they are young, slim, tattooless, pierceless, virgins (I mean REAL virgins with absolutely no sexual experience whatsoever). This is a vanishingly, extremely small group of women, easily less than 5% of women in the 16-27 age cohort. There aren’t enough of them to have any statistical significance nor do they have any real appreciable effect on the SMP/RMP.

    4) These women do not want their SMP/RMP counterparts. I guarantee you that if I really drilled down with the woman in the video and really got her to be honest with me, I’d find out that she got a lot of attention from men, but it was from men who she hadn’t really noticed or wasn’t attracted to. I’d find out she really does have “friends” in the form of a couple of beta orbiters who would date her tomorrow if she’d agree to it.

    5) There is just no earthly possibility that this woman is generating no interest at all, unless her father is cloistering her (and that is a real possibility because she’s the 7th of 8 homeschooled kids). The only way men are staying away from her is because shotgun totin’, pickup truck drivin’ Dad meets every man she talks about with dire warnings about “you hurt her, I kill you”.

    6) I want to know what locality this woman lives in. If she lived in the midwest where I live she’d already be married and pregnant.

    Liked by 2 people

    • thedeti says:

      Re locality:

      Just as I thought. People want me to think the Myra Wests of the world are doomed to perpetual singlehood.

      BS.

      In August 2021 at age 23, West moved out of her parents’ house and moved to California, alone. Since then, she’s met a man and had at least one full fledged relationship.

      She could have done this just fine under Dad’s tutelage, but she didn’t want to – she wanted to do it her way. And she doesn’t want to get married either. If she really wanted that she’d put herself under the authority of people who actually know how to get that done. She didn’t – she moved away from her parents and to one of the worst, most family hostile places in the entire country.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      thedeti,

      1) It’s the fathers who aren’t prepared to marry off their daughter to a man 10 years older than she is. “Not my little girl. I don’t want that for her. Think about when he’s old and she still has life to live.”

      2) 100%

      3) 5% of unmarried women in the 16-27 being real virgins (which I’ll define as no activity below the belt) is a PIPE DREAM. Maybe if you stayed closer to 16-18, but once a girl is college age it’s over. I’d put the number at less than 1% and if I remember correctly there is a chart in a Dalrock post that supports this.

      4) 100%. Women, AWALT applies, want to be with a man: decisive, forward thinking, driven, resourceful, strong, dangerous. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that only attention a woman wants is considered attention to her.

      5) Let’s not denigrate pick-up trucks. They are now some of the more expensive and luxury feature filled vehicles around, along with being naturally utilitarian, even the ones with 5’5″ beds. 🙂 Also, shotguns have long since been replaced with a nice selection from the AR platform. It’s 2022 and time to take our stereotypes into the 21st century.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Joe2 says:

      My thoughts,

      7) She is making these YouTube videos simply as an attempt to monetize a “woe is me” theme and showcase her acting skills.

      Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        Joe

        It’s more likely at age 21 she had no experience. Then she decided to put on some make up and go outside, and proved me right once again.

        Like

  17. thedeti says:

    The woman in the videos Proprietor claims “has no friends” and is a dateless, kissless virgin, is a woman named Myra West.

    Above is a link to her last video, posted on August 15, 2022, about 3 weeks ago. In it she talks about her on again, off again, then on again, now off again for good, relationship with a man who I can’t say is unattractive. The video depicts the normal course of a millennial/GenZ relationship, including allusions to sexual conduct. It includes audio of them fighting and photos of him in the shower (presumably she took the photo) and the two of them in bed together. They’re depicted on some sort of road trip in which presumably they (an unmarried couple) shared hotel rooms together.

    So. Once again, with a bare minimum of drilling down, I have discovered that what women claim to be is not truly the case. People try to sell me a “woe is me” tale of an attractive woman who can’t get affection, attention, men, or love. With less than 5 minutes of reviewing the woman’s own online offerings, I discover the claim is sheer unadulterated bullsh!t.

    If you want me to believe that a woman who looks like Myra West can’t get friends or male attention, you’ll have to try again. This just proves what I already knew – any woman a 4 or above in attractiveness can get literally anything she wants, anytime she wants, in any way she wants. Period. End of.

    Liked by 3 people

    • thedeti says:

      I”ll point out the “I have no friends” video was posted August 11, 2019 at age 21. Her “The End.. again” video, above, was posted almost exactly 3 years later, in August 2022. That makes her 24 years old now.

      Myra West is living a very normal life for a 24 year old single woman. She’s getting attention from men, she’s dated one, and had a relationship with one. The relationship was born, lived, matured, declined, and died, just like 98% of relationships out there. Presumably she had sex with him (she took a photo of him in a shower and took photos of the two of them in bed together). Presumably she got things from the relationship she wanted, and some things she didn’t want.

      Looks pretty normal to me. Looks pretty “friendly” to me. Looks like he was her “friend”. Looks like pretty much every other relationship that women either like or complain about.

      I don’t feel one bit sorry for the Myra Wests of the world. They’ve got it pretty damn good from where I sit.

      Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        It took me less than 30 minutes of skimming around Myra West’s YouTube channel to completely and totally debunk the claims made.

        I do not believe for one minute that the Myra Wests of the world can’t get attention from men. All they have to do is look halfway decent and go outside.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        It took me less than 30 minutes of skimming around Myra West’s YouTube channel to completely and totally debunk the claims made.

        That means Proprietor did zero digging.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        “That means Proprietor did zero digging.”

        My impression of Proprietor’s work at Cornerstone is that he presents an ideal image of femininity as a model for young women to emulate. If he digs too deep, then the ideal model evaporates and gets bogged down in the details like what we’re doing here. Men care about the cause-effect stuff, the details, motivations, etc. But if you draw women’s attention to the stuff men are interested in, then they’ll begin hamstering and the overall message would be lost.

        IMO, if Proprietor wanted to improve his presentation at Cornerstone, he would write in a voice and from a perspective that appealed to the audience who would most benefit from his writings — young single women.

        Liked by 1 person

      • feeriker says:

        This is a life script for both worldly AND “Christian” women (repeated for the benefit of anyone still naive enough to believe that there is any difference).

        Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      I’ve been looking at Myra West’s videos. Comparing her earlier videos with the later ones, it is obvious to me that sometime between the ages of 21 and 23, she got sexed up / had a sexual awakening / sexual experience / lost her virginity, or however you might think of it. In her earlier videos, she is sincerely and wistfully pining for love and male attention, wondering if she’ll ever “know” and trust a man. But in the later videos, she’s all dolled up in a dress, wearing makeup, and she has a quiet inner confidence that she didn’t have before. Furthermore, there’s something contrived or false about the way she talks in the later videos, like she’s preening and speaking to the camera / audience. She’s not speaking from her heart.

      Of course, she may never come out and say what happened to her between 21 and 23. But if my discernment is correct in sensing that “something” happened, then this would explain her decision at 23 to traipse across the country with men, which seems incongruent with her earlier self. This offers real world evidence of what was said before, that once women have a sexual awakening, they become 304s if they don’t immediately marry.

      Liked by 1 person

  18. thedeti says:

    I posted this at Proprietor’s website at Cornerstone. As I write this, it’s in moderation. We’ll see if Prop posts it.


    I would respectfully suggest you watch Ms. West’s later videos.

    The last video you posted was in March 2021. Since then, Ms West moved to California in August 2021 and started a relationship with a man, which ended 3 weeks ago in August 2022.

    Thus, the allegedly friendless, “single for life” woman she claimed herself to be, is not, or at least, is no longer. As you can see, sir, appearances can be deceiving, and what women claim about themselves usually isn’t true.

    Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      https://www.instagram.com/myraswest/?hl=en

      Myra West’s IG tagline: “On a mission to make talking about mental health struggles normal.”

      THAT, THAT RIGHT THERE, is the issue. Or was.

      Myra West does not have trouble meeting men because she’s young, single, and (claims to be) a “sexually unactivated” “virgin”.

      She has trouble meeting men because she’s poorly socialized and mentally maladjusted. BY HER OWN ADMISSION.

      This is not a men problem. This is not a woman problem. This is not a “she’s just not naturally cute” problem. This is a poor socialization/ mental maladjustment problem.

      Like

      • thedeti says:

        Not only that, Myra West’s poor socialization and mental health struggles aren’t a problem for her.

        Myra West is poorly socialized and has mental health struggles, and she is still able to meet men and have relationships with them. She is still able to converse with men, meet them, develop relationships with them, and conduct relationships with them. She is still able to lead a full life which includes the opposite sex.

        And all she had to do was put on some makeup and go outside. Her “issues” have not hindered her in the least.

        Take those same issues and put them into the body of an average man, though, and you have an incel, even if he does look decent and go outside.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        “It’s more likely at age 21 she had no experience. Then she decided to put on some make up and go outside…”

        “Myra West does not have trouble meeting men because she’s young, single, and (claims to be) a “sexually unactivated” “virgin”.

        She has trouble meeting men because she’s poorly socialized and mentally maladjusted. BY HER OWN ADMISSION.”

        “And all she had to do was put on some makeup and go outside. Her “issues” have not hindered her in the least.”

        Since her “going outside” was a crucial piece of the process, let’s examine what “going outside” entails.

        — Putting on makeup
        — Meeting men
        — Getting “experience”
        — Putting herself online
        — Moving to California alone
        — Having dalliances with men
        — Taking trips with men and staying in hotels with them

        IOW, she had to get sexed up (i.e. “sexually activated”) before she could attract any attention. What kind of attention? Obviously sexual attention, not marriage proposals. Getting sexual attention from men is a common denominator and a low bar to meet. As you said, she doesn’t really need to “DO anything” to get this kind of attention, except “go outside”.

        What did she have to do to get “experience”? I’ll guess that it is sexperience.

        So essentially, she had to run the gauntlet before she became “visible” to men. This is my point exactly. CR’s point is that men should be picking out these women for marriage before they run the gauntlet out of desperation. The problem is that women are not “visible” to men until after they’re sexperienced.

        In the minds of young virgins (male and female), their biggest problem is how to break into the SMP. In this paradigm, virginal women think their big hurdle is getting their first sexperience so that they can become “visible” to men and thereby enter into the SMP. Most men think they have a similar problem — how to make themselves “visible” to women. However, it’s much MUCH easier for women to get past this initial barrier than it is for men.

        The real problem is that neither women nor men are thinking about how to break into the MMP. No, it is commonly assumed that the gauntlet must come first.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        “CR’s point is that men should be picking out these women for marriage before they run the gauntlet out of desperation.”

        There are places where this is happening.

        Liked by 1 person

  19. thedeti says:

    Proprietor dumped my comment. He refused to publish it. That’s too bad. Just lost a lot of respect for his blog.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. thedeti says:

    CR’s point is that men should be picking out these women for marriage before they run the gauntlet out of desperation. The problem is that women are not “visible” to men until after they’re sexperienced.

    Jack, you’re not hearing me. I just don’t know how to say this any more clearly.

    1) Men are picking these women out before ANYTHING happens. These women are visible to men.

    Please read this very carefully, because this is important.

    The problem is that the men who “see” these women, aren’t wanted by these women.

    Let me say that again, slightly differently.

    These women do not want the men who can “see” them.

    These women are not interested in the men who are interested in them. These women want the hot bad boys, long before they ever actually get any experience with a hot bad boy.

    I am telling you right now that before Myra West ever put on makeup and went outside, she had at least, AT LEAST, 5 beta orbiters who would have dated her if she were interested. I can guarantee that.

    I need look no further than Elspeth, who tells a story of rejecting a “neomaxizoomdweebie” in favor of SAM. E didn’t have to go get “sexperience”. She could have dated the Neomaxi. But she didn’t – she chose the hot guy. Just like women ALWAYS do. Women want the hot guy and hold out for the hot guy. They aren’t being ignored – they’re the ones doing the ignoring.

    Don’t tell me that women are “invisible” to men. That’s bullsh!t. No they are not. Myra West was NOT “invisible” to men. No woman who looks like Myra West is “invisible” to men. I guaran-damn-tee you that men noticed her. Oh yes they did. That’s not the problem. It’s that the women don’t want the men who want them before their sexual awakenings happen.

    2) Let’s get this out of the way too. Let’s presume you’re correct and that women like Myra West are being ignored until they have sexperience. Let’s presume you’re correct and that these women really are being cruelly snubbed and ignored.

    We are talking here about an extremely small group of women. I say it’s around 5%. Red Pill Apostle claims it’s well under that figure. Either way, it’s a number so statistically insignificant it’s hardly worth talking about

    3) The problem is not virginal women without experience or nebbish milquetoasty concave chested low T men. The problem is that these women have some combination of poor socialization, emotional maladjustment, or mental illness. That’s not a man problem. That’s not a society problem. That’s an individual woman problem. That’s a “that woman’s parents and family problem”. Men can’t do anything about that. Men didn’t cause it, contribute to it, or aggravate it, and they can’t do anything to fix it.

    I can tell you from first hand personal experience what happens when you pick one of these women. It destroys the man, the woman, and their children, that’s what happens. Men are not the problem here. But women keep putting themselves out there, and men keep picking them, and families keep getting destroyed over it.


    The problem is NOT that men aren’t picking these women before they go out and have sex.

    The problem is that men are trying like hell to pick these women but these women are rejecting them and picking the hot bad boys.

    This isn’t even a “please feel sorry for the beta soyboys and Gammas” post. This is just a “this is what’s really happening” post. No emotional tugs, no heartfelt pleas for anyone to do anything about it. Just observing and reporting. Just reporting what’s really going on in the real world.

    Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      4) Women lie about all of this. Women fail to perceive this.

      Women ignore men who express interest but who they aren’t attracted to. Because those men “don’t count”. The only men who “count” are the ones she likes but who don’t like her back.

      Women are fundamentally dishonest about their relationships with men. They lie to others and to themselves about this all the time. They lie about their experiences, their sexual desires, and the hindrances that hold them back. They lie about what they want. They lie about what they have done and what they want to do. They lie about their intentions. They lie about their emotions. They lie about all of this.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        “Women ignore men who express interest but who they aren’t attracted to. Because those men “don’t count”. The only men who “count” are the ones she likes but who don’t like her back.”

        Women want to date and marry up. Always has been and always will be. Women lie about their sexual experience because they know men, especially men with options, will judge them on past promiscuity lowering their level for marriage. Women lie to other women about their lives in order to maintain status in the hen house. Women will not sacrifice the status of marrying up because this sacrifice is an admission of her own actual status, hence their fixation on a small subset of men and the exclusion of the rest.

        Mrs. Apostle would tell people that I was a good father and husband while at the same time treating me like roadkill in private. Her words and behavior make sense in light of her desire to maintain status with others of having locked down a good husband father because all of her actions showed that she honestly believed she was better than me and settled. Women lie in both word and deed to others and especially to themselves in order to obtain what they want or maintain an image.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        RPA:

        Yes to all of it.

        The point I was making is that this notion that men are ignoring virginal inexperienced women is utter bullsh!t. It’s 100% false. There’s not one damn shred of truth to it.

        These women are getting attention. It’s just that it’s attention from soyboys and betas who they don’t want. They also get attention from f-boys they do want and eventually accept.

        I also don’t agree with the idea that women who “aren’t naturally cute” get no love. Also bullsh!t. To the extent there are young women who “aren’t naturally cute”, there are so infinitesimally few of them that it’s a phenomenon not worth discussing. No one has yet shown me an example of a woman who is “not naturally cute” who can’t get any attention. Out of the hundreds of women I have known personally, I knew one who fit this description. And she suffered from terrible birth defects and mild mental disabilities that utterly prevented her from any sort of relationships with men.

        Men are not the problem here. Men are not en masse ignoring young virginal “sexually unactivated” women. That is just not happening. It’s just not, and nothing anyone says here is going to convince me otherwise, because there’s no evidence to support it. Myra West doesn’t support it. Her problem was NOT “sexual unactivation”. Her problem was poor socialization and anxiety issues. And, I suspect, dishonesty about the level of interest men had in her.

        Men are ignoring young women? BULLSH!T. I guarantee everyone here that Myra West had at least 5 beta orbiters who would have dated her in a heartbeat. But we’ll never hear about that because Myra probably doesn’t even remember their overtures and entreaties. I bet if I kept digging I’d find evidence of them. By her own admission, her “nobody likes me everybody hates me” and “I’ll be single for life” claims were BS.

        Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        thedeti,

        Some men may pass up virgin women, but I completely agree that outside of an infinitesimally small number of women, all women get attention from men. That we have to look so far and wide for an example of a woman not getting attention from me tells us how rare the situation is. Then, with the example of Myra, all that was necessary were a few behavioral changes and presto! the attention she craved was hers. In the vast majority of cases, we are dealing with women not liking the attention of men they feel are beneath them, when these women claim they are getting no attention.

        I also don’t buy the sexual activation “glow” view. I believe a more reasonable take is that most women inherently know virginity is worth something and so they keep it the best they can. But they tend to make horrible decisions regarding who they give it to. The truth is that sex is the seal of the covenant relationship and women use sex to try and lock a man down, which is to misapply the covenant seal in a worldly manner.

        Once a woman’s virginity is gone, female thinking comes from a point of lesser value being assigned to sex even though it’s still the primary means of locking down a man. The thinking, and I’ve heard this rationalization from women before, is that once the prize is gone she might as well enjoy herself because it doesn’t really matter if the marriage product is used once or a dozen times. Used is still used. Hence, I see sexually active single women as having a mental shift in how they value sex that plays out in their behavior.

        A virgin guarding her status has nothing to do with activation. It’s about how she values her status as a virgin. In today’s western society, once a woman is into her mid 20s and still a virgin they end up in a selection boondoggle. The men who value virginity in their bride enough to be pure themselves and also pass women’s attractiveness filters get locked down early and are no longer in the dating pool. The remaining men who pass women’s attractiveness filters are men who look for hookups and/or sex while in a dating relationship.

        Lolo Jones is a great example of the selection issue. She is a beautiful and fit woman who prioritized her career in her early 20s only to find out that when she was ready to be married the sexually pure men she’d actually consider worthy (who can pass her filters) have all been married for years already. Now the men she finds attractive all want sex from her prior to marriage because she’s forced to pick from the leftovers. She puts on a dress and gets all the attention she wants … it’s just not the “right” attention she’s looking for.

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        Lolo Jones. This woman could, and should, have been married 15 years ago. It’s just that she wouldn’t compromise and wouldn’t make a decision and stick with it. Her “career” was also much more important than a relationship with a man. No man was, or would ever be, good enough for her.

        Liked by 3 people

      • anonymous_ng says:

        “Lolo Jones. This woman could, and should, have been married 15 years ago. It’s just that she wouldn’t compromise and wouldn’t make a decision and stick with it. Her “career” was also much more important than a relationship with a man. No man was, or would ever be, good enough for her.”

        I know a woman who married for the first time in her early 50s. She was reasonably attractive, smart, slim etc. I asked her once, and she said that she’d been asked to marry in her 20s.

        Looking at her husband, well, he’s probably the same guy she could have married in her 20s except that he’s probably divorced now.

        LLJ looks to be following the same script.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        “Lolo Jones. This woman could, and should, have been married 15 years ago. It’s just that she wouldn’t compromise and wouldn’t make a decision and stick with it. Her “career” was also much more important than a relationship with a man. No man was, or would ever be, good enough for her.”

        If you look like Lolo does, profess to want to be married and are still single think of how difficult she must be in a relationship. She must be off the charts demanding/contentious/DisneyPrincessDysphoria.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Oscar says:

        Lolo Jones is an extreme case of a fairly common phenomenon. She’s an Olympic athlete, so she spent her entire post-pubescent life surrounded by men on the extreme right end of the bell curve. Consequently, those are the men she wants.

        The problem (for LLJ) is that those men can have pretty much any woman they want, so if she doesn’t put out, they just shrug and go “next”. There are women lined up around the block for them, after all.

        About the only man that might have met LLJ’s standards is Tim Tebow, and he’s five years younger than LLJ is, and married a former Ms. Universe who’s eight years younger than he is.

        Contrast that with a story that DS highlighted earlier this year. Anna Croskrey and Cooper Kupp met in high school in Yakima, WA. She was a track athlete (like LLJ), and he played football and basketball. They initially went to different colleges, but she gave up her heptathlon career at the University of Arkansas to join him at Eastern Washington University.

        Now they’re married, and he won the MVP award at the 2022 Superbowl.

        You can’t always get everything you want all at once. Sometimes you have to sacrifice one thing to obtain another. That’s when a person’s true values show. LLJ sacrificed marriage and family in favor of a track career. Anna Kupp sacrificed her track career in favor of marriage and family.

        They both got what they really wanted.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        By the way, LLJ froze her eggs.

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/olympian-lolo-jones-shares-about-freezing-her-eggs-at-age-40/ar-AA10gQcQ

        In an emotional post and video, Jones reflected on her upcoming 40th birthday.”Terrified. 15 days before I turned 40. nothing has scared me more than feeling like I’m running out of time to have a family,” she wrote in her caption.

        Jones originally wanted to freeze her eggs when she was in my early 30’s. But “I just kept thinking I will meet my husband and things will all work out. Well here I am almost 10 years later and it hasn’t,” she wrote.

        The athlete decided to pursue egg freezing on her own in the hopes of starting a family in the future. She worked with Frame Fertility and praised the medical team in her caption, stating that “the team was incredible.”

        She should’ve listened to deti.

        Like

    • thedeti says:

      The only difference between Elspeth and 99% of other women out there is that Elspeth’s enormous gamble paid off big. She didn’t just get to sleep with her bull alpha bux. She actually got to marry him – unlike well over 90% of women out there. Elspeth hit the jackpot that all other women try, and fail, to hit.

      Almost all other women are Myra West – they ignore the neomaxis, they get with the hot bad boy, and it’s all downhill from there.

      None of that is men’s fault.

      Liked by 1 person

  21. thedeti says:

    Another thing

    Anyone who asserts that men are avoiding women who “aren’t naturally cute” will need better examples than a young, pre-fame Gwyneth Paltrow or Myra West.

    https://thehearthandplow.com/2022/09/07/go-get-those-girls/

    If you’re trying to tell me that Gwyneth Paltrow and Myra West are “not naturally cute”, you’re batsh!t insane.

    Liked by 2 people

  22. thedeti says:

    I do not for one f-ing second believe that young, inexperienced, “not naturally cute” virgins are getting completely and totally ignored. That is NOT happening.

    What IS happening is that young, inexperienced, “not naturally cute” virgins are getting attention from their SMV male counterparts: soyboys, betas, and socially awkward men. That attention does not register with these women. So they claim they’re getting “no” attention” and they’re “being ignored”. Which is false.

    These soyboys, betas, and socially awkward men would date and marry these women in a heartbeat. That might be attention these women don’t want, and/or don’t see as attention. But it is still attention.

    These virgins could date and marry these men — after all, these men are their rough SMV counterparts. A hundred years ago, these women would be EXPECTED to marry these men. But they don’t want these men. It’s fine that they don’t want these men. But don’t tell me they are getting “ignored”. They’re not being ignored; they’re just not getting desired attention from men they want.

    These young women are also getting attention from attractive men who want sex from them; and they resist it. For a while.

    This entire series of posts has been hamstering bullsh!t to beat the band. It’s gaslighting and lying and manipulation.

    Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      This is just the same old story.

      These young, inexperienced, sexually unactivated virgins want immediate relationships and marriage proposals from attractive men who will not demand sex from them.

      These women want the unattainable: Attractive players with prior sexual experience who arrive with marriage proposals but who don’t want sex.

      They want men who do what they say, when they say, how they say. Women get everything, men get nothing. Women control everything, men get nothing. Women demand everything and men give it to them.

      Bullsh!t.

      Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      “These virgins could date and marry these men – after all, these men are their rough SMV counterparts. A hundred years ago, these women would be EXPECTED to marry these men. But they don’t want these men. It’s fine that they don’t want these men. But don’t tell me they are getting “ignored”. They’re not being ignored; they’re just not getting desired attention from men they want.”

      We need to define what attention is. Almost all women get attention from all men. It is what we as men do when we scan a room. So the lonely virgin is getting attention from the attractive men she wants. But we have to understand that attention comes in the form of the nanosecond nope or the unsure pause or the mull it over and go meet her. The men whose attention she wants are going to fall into the nanosecond nope category most of the time but she is still getting their attention just like she does from almost all men.

      What she is not getting from all men is the fawning, which is what she defines as attention. Fawning is part of Disney Princess Dysphoria where the handsome hunk sweeps her off her feet and makes her feel good about herself. Fawning is what men on her SMV level will do with her. Men slightly above her level may give her a second glance and think about it. Men a few steps or more up from her level, those men she really wants, give her a glance and have already made up their minds about her prior to averting their glance.

      The only, and I mean ONLY, way that women don’t get attention from men is if they are holed up somewhere kept from being viewed by men.

      Like

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