Faux Masculine Archetypes

A prelude to upcoming case studies of Faux-Masculinity.

Readership: Men; Single Men; Christians;
Theme: Faux-Masculine Archetypes
Length: 2,100 words
Reading Time: 7 minutes

Update: A Summary of Faux-Masculine Archetypes (2022-5-30)

Introduction

Over the past several months, there have been a few readers who specifically requested the topic of Christian Masculinity or True Masculinity, and so I’ve adopted the mindset to concentrate on this area in the future. Red Pill Apostle has recognized this need too, and has written about the differences between dominating and domineering in one of his posts.

The Bible contains relevant archetypes of masculinity for us to emulate, but although most all the readers here have read the words and stories therein, we’re not visualizing the real world application very clearly. This is understandable. We’ve been snowed by a maelstrom of Feminism most all our lives.

Before the turn of the century, popular culture and entertainment regularly promoted many examples of masculinity.  A wide spectrum of archetypes were represented. To name a few…

  • The wise, caring, hardworking father (Andy Griffith, Bill Cosby, Jim Anderson)
  • The creative inventor (Emmet Brown, MacGyver)
  • The ladies’ man (Arthur Fonzarelli, John Travolta, Sean Connery, Templeton Peck)
  • The leader (Capt. William T. Kirk, Capt. Jean Luc Picard)
  • The military hero (Audie Murphy, Gny. Sgt. Hartman, Lt. Pete Mitchell, William Wallace)
  • The strong protector (Clint Eastwood, Mr. T, Randy Savage)
  • The rugged outdoorsman (Crocodile Dundee, Indiana Jones, Steve Irwin)
  • Superheros (Batman, Spiderman, Superman)

In spite of all their faults, all these male role models had a strength of purpose and they met the challenge of overcoming an obstacle. Taken together, these characters provided a well-rounded sampling of masculinity, and this offered a comprehensive model of masculinity for young boys of the time.

Gung Ho, a G.I. Joe character that was popular among young boys in the 1980s and 1990s.

Today, role models such as these are conspicuously absent.  Modern men are commonly depicted as…

  • Vainglorious pretty boys (Jamie Dornan, Justin Bieber, Ryan Gosling)
  • Thuggish degenerates (any mass murderer, MAGA “deplorables”)
  • Greedy, villainous businessmen (Creed Bratton, Ron Swanson)
  • Bumbling dimwit husbands (Al Bundy, Homer Simpson)
  • Drug Lords or addicts (Narcos, Walter White)
  • Persnickety Nerds (Leonard Hofstadter)
  • Tech Geeks (Sheldon Cooper)
  • Effete androgynes

Readers might notice that some of the same archetypes are present today, but compared to the previous archetypes, the challenges they face and their strength of purpose are either self-centered or missing altogether. For example, dimwit husbands have replaced the wise father, pretty boys have replaced the ladies’ man, tech geeks have displaced the crafty inventor, and thugs have replaced the hero. Sebaceous immature weaklings are the new norm.

Another difference is that no matter which faux archetype is presented, he is either a loner, or else he is under the command of an all-powerful harridan wife or a masculinized Lara Croft / Natasha Romanoff type heroine, who is almost predictably never wrong! Consequently, young men’s concept of Masculinity has been corrupted and perverted.

On this, Red Pill Boomer offered a great suggestion.

“…it might be a good thing to compare and contrast faux-masculine headship (posturing) vs. true Biblical headship. I know you and others have handled the subject of Biblical headship a lot on here, but have we ever compared and contrasted the two? IDK, maybe you did already and I missed it, or it was before my time as being a part of this blog…”

I have written about this many times before, but I haven’t labeled it as “faux-masculinity” so you won’t find anything by using this search term. I haven’t written about it in one stand-alone post that contains a full comprehensive listing of the types and differences either. I’ve only picked out one or two differences at a time as it related to a topic. I’ve also not had the habit of listing such a comparison within its own category, so I can see how these posts would be hard to find. So, starting with this post, I’ll include such posts in a new category under Archetypes / Faux-Masculinity.

This month I’ve chosen the theme of Faux-Masculine Archetypes in which I’ll review several popular stereotypes of fake masculinity. I have the idea that by objectively (and at times humorously) examining these stereotypes, we’ll get some practical insights about where masculinity, or rather, where our concept of masculinity has gone wrong.

We don’t need to look too far to find examples of faux-masculinity. As of right now, I’m not sure exactly how many types of faux-masculinity there are. But I’ve already put together this short list of noteworthy examples for the reader.

  1. The Responsible Figurehead / Sock Puppet (2022-5-4) *
  2. Mopey Dopey (2022-5-6)
  3. The Bungling Dimwitted Lazy Husband (2022-5-9)
  4. The Boring Loyal Dude (2022-5-11) *
  5. The Armchair Philosopher (2022-5-13)
  6. The Decadent Christian (Antimonianism) (2022-5-16)
  7. The Decadent Christian (Ressentimentalism) (2022-5-18) *
  8. The Decadent Christian (Legalism)
  9. The White Knight (2022-5-20) *
  10. The Male Feminist (2022-5-23) *
  11. The Lecherous Horndog (2022-5-25)
  12. The Simp (2022-5-27)
  13. The Abusive Criminal / Thug (2022-5-29)
  14. The Playboy
  15. The Workaholic
  16. Bad@ss Chad *
  17. Dark Triad
  18. The Incel *
  19. The Sebaceous Soy Boy *

I won’t be able to cover all of these this month, but this is the list I’m starting with. Readers are welcome to pick out their “favorites” for me to focus on, and/or suggest others not listed here.


* Update: These types were identified as being a subgroup of the Male Feminist (MF), which was found to have countless subtypes. To add to this list, we have…

  • Chivalrous Cuckservatives
  • Churchians
  • Complementarians
  • F boys
  • Generic Nice Guys
  • Incels
  • Liberal mouthpieces
  • Male versions of radical feminists
  • Manginas
  • Nice Guys™
  • PUAs
  • QTBGL types

The reason there are so many MFs, and so many types, is because most all men across the West have been raised by feminist parents and schooled in feminism from their youth.

The thing that makes them all MFs is that they either espouse feminist philosophy, or they support feminism, either willingly or inadvertently.


One question for us to consider is whether True Masculinity is equivalent to Christian Masculinity. I suspect that it is.

Encapsulating an archetype of Christian Masculinity in particular is a delicate mine field that few dare to enter!  Those that do, invariably maintain a steadfast principle of presenting the saccharine sweet or spiritually / sexually eviscerated images of faux-masculinity that are all too common within modern Christianity, as if this were the central core of what Christian Masculinity is all about.

Likewise, by objectively examining these stereotypes, and comparing them to what the Bible tells us, we’ll be able to identify exactly where Christian Masculinity has gone wrong, and whether it is any different from True Masculinity. With fruit, we’ll be able to find some insights about the sources of these stereotypes and identify the false values and/or false impressions associated with them. Once this is done, we’ll be able to call them out and push towards a better model.

Qualitative Benchmarks for Evaluating Masculinity

I’ve selected five benchmarks of Masculinity to form an objective and qualitative criteria which can be used to evaluate each of the archetypes. These five benchmarks form the acronym SHARP (or HARPS) and have the subcategories listed below.

  1. Strength — Athleticism; Endurance; Maintaining Frame; Physical Strength; Stamina;
  2. Honor — Ethics; Honesty; Identity; Morality; Reputation; Social Status;
  3. Authority — Education; Influence; Position; Power; Socioeconomic Status;
  4. Respect — Abilities / Skills; Authenticity; Charisma; Excellence; Integrity; SMV;
  5. Purpose — Attaining Goals; Discipline; Incentives / Motivations; Meaning / Significance / Value; Perseverance;

Honor is an interesting category, because Ethics and Morality often have a negative correllation with Status. More attention and honor is usually given to Reputation and Status than Ethics and Morality.

It should be well noted that Respect is linked to Authority through Power.

Abilities / Skills (included under Respect) are traits that branch across Authority, Respect, and Purpose.

I hesitate listing SMV under Respect, but there are reasons for doing so.

  1. From a social perspective, honor and respect are predominantly offered to those men with a demonstrated utility to Feminine Imperatives. (Readers may discuss how morally or ethically appropriate this is.)
  2. From an intersexual perspective, Tingles = Respect. (This is a fact that cannot be debated.)

Also of note, a man’s SMV is primarily based on Donal Graeme’s LAMPS (Looks, Athleticism, Money, Power, Status), and these correlate with Strength, Honor, and Authority. Also, Charisma is often added to LAMPS as an SMV determinant, and this would include Respect according to the above nomenclature. Purpose is entirely omitted from one’s SMV evaluation! (Although it might be considered in assessing one’s MMV.) Is it a coincidence that a man’s purpose is the one characteristic that women are entirely blind to?

Honor and Respect

The previous section shows that Honor and Respect deserve special attention in our study of Masculine Archetypes for two main reasons.

  1. Honor and Respect are intertwined with Strength, Authority, and Purpose, as well as Abilities / Skills, and SMV.
  2. Western culture has somehow developed a propensity to disrespect respectability and dishonor the honorable.

On the first point, it seems that the core spiritual effectiveness of Masculinity hinges on Respect, which is possibly why St. Paul emphasized that wives should respect their husbands (Ephesians 5:33). Furthermore, a Man’s identity, ethics, and morality are necessarily tied to Honor. If it is not, then a man ceases to be (relatively) good, by definition.

On the second point, this general attitude of dishonor and disrespect towards good men started about a century ago. The inflection point happened during the Sexual De-Evolution. Since then, the dishonor and disrespect towards men went full throttle within 20 years (by the mid 90s), and has gradually grown to become all encompassing today. Some factions even consider it virtuous to disparage and vilify men!

This general tenor of subtle contempt, condescension, and disrespect towards men has created various animosities and the overall feeling that something is amiss. This topic has been the subject of a long running discussion in the Men’s sphere.

Conversely, we can observe how immoral and unethical men receive honor and respect. As a result, men see little value in being respectable or honorable.

Dalrock suggested that we need to focus on respect instead of fairness (which is a progressive value).

Catacomb Resident pointed out that the underlying problem from a spiritual perspective is that we predominantly maintain a worldly paradigm. We commend and revere those qualities that are valued by women, and we give very little credence nor recognition to men who have those qualities which are eternally valued by God.

On this, RedPillBoomer posed a pertinent question about the moral incongruencies surrounding Respect.

“So Jack, maybe for a possible future blog subject, what is the profile of a man who “rightfully deserves the respect of other men?” What does that profile look like?”

We will consider this question during our examination of Masculine Archetypes. I expect the discussion of Honor and Respect will be interesting.

Epilogue

Masculinity as a discipline and an art of expression has died out in the West. As a result, Men have been pigeonholed into ignominy.

Scott summed up the situation well in a comment.

“In the current crisis, I almost consider it an automatic fail when we hear what a “real man” is (or other variations of this theme).

The most common ones come from the tradcons, who try so desperately try to walk the fine line between their weird notions of chivalry (from opening doors to protecting) and worshipping their kick ass daughters with guns who don’t need no man. (“Any future son in law better be able to handle a strong, sassy opinionated woman like my daughter!”)

The construct of masculinity will stand or fall on its own merits and the smartest move right now is for men to support each other in the wilderness.”

Yes, and in addition to supporting one another, we need to do so with mutual respect.

It’s long past time we faced up to the reality that Christian Masculinity is a lost art and discipline.

Through all these studies of Faux-Masculinity, it is my hope that we’ll see what went wrong and envision a revised concept of True Masculinity. There is much to be done in the way of developing a new archetype of Christian Masculinity in particular.  Outside of Biblical examples, there’s very little to work with. It seems like we’re starting over from scratch.

Perhaps the biggest obstacle that must be overcome at present is our current notion that Christian Masculinity is depressed, ex-responsible, “figurehead but not head”, flaccid, nonproductive, pandering, pedestalizing, obsequious, speak-no-evil, watered down immasculinity. (We’ll get to that in the next few posts.)

It is not eternally True. It is a false, worldly mockery of masculinity to be soundly rejected.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Archetypes, Convergence, Counterfeit/False Paradigms, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Fantasy and Illusion, Faux-Masculinity, Fundamental Frame, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Introspection, Models of Failure, Models of Success, Personal Presentation, Purpose, Questions from Readers, Respect, Self-Concept. Bookmark the permalink.

71 Responses to Faux Masculine Archetypes

  1. I look forward to this month’s posts.

    On another note, I gave you a mental ding for ‘envisualize’, but took it back with the excellent use of ‘sebaceous’ (had to look it up) as a personal descriptor.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      Will,
      Thanks for the tip. I’ve made the correction.

      Once upon a time, I had excellent English abilities with a vocabulary above 80,000 words. But after living abroad for the past 18 years I’ve become borderline illiterate. Blogging helps me stay sharp though. I usually consult the dictionary on a daily basis.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Lastmod says:

    True masculinty: have your “yes” mean yes and your “no” mean no.

    Today and for the past few decades….. yes, including the 1980’s….. it’s been more image over substance. I’ll use as an example one of the janitors at a property I supervise.

    I showed up at said property unannounced because my clients were complaining to me about a few things. I wanted to just pay a random visit. “Hi, I’m from corporate. I’m here to help you!”

    It was lunch time, so I came into the staff break room. The janitor was having lunch, his wife brought it to him, and she brought along the two kids as well. They were speaking Spanish at the one table. He saw me, and he knew who I was. He stood up immediately and shook my hand. He introduced me to his wife, and children. I sat with them. The daughter smiled at me. She was about six. The dad picked her up, put her on his lap, and planted a kiss on her cheek and she hugged him.

    The wife offered me some food, and I declined. She also had a bag with her and it had cleaning supplies. I asked why did she have them. The husband and wife looked at each other for an uneasy moment. He cleared his throat and said, “Boss, in order to do my job here properly, I have to buy many supplies because the Maintenance Superintendent won’t order me the supplies I need to do my job properly.”

    Always talk to the staff first at a property that is having problems — people like the janitor, the tool and die guy, the maintenance guy, the office clerk.

    The janitor didn’t have athleticism. He didn’t have power. He didn’t have status. He did have a nice head of thick dark hair so maybe that could be looks. But he had integrity. He had Honesty. He had a will to do the job the right way even if it meant taking his meager monies to get the materials necessary to do it. He loved his children, and had a wife who brought him lunch. I am assuming she also worked and came here for lunch with the kids and would probably drop them off with grandma, a cousin, or a sister before her job started. Both wore wedding bands. Her ring was very modest but she wore it with pride.

    I told him that if this ever happens in the future, I want to hear about it. Gave him my business card, and I chatted for a few more minutes. They were all very friendly. Mom gently scolded the boy when he was speaking Spanish in front of me. “Don’t be rude. He doesn’t speak Spanish. He’s at the table. Speak English son.” He did.

    Hardworking man. Good wife. Behaved children. What more is there? He had integrity. He told me the truth and had class, even for his status in his work. Is this janitor a man? A real one?

    Well…… according to the metrics of today. No. No way.

    Liked by 10 people

    • Jack says:

      “The janitor didn’t have athleticism. He didn’t have power. He didn’t have status. […] But he had integrity. He had Honesty. He had a will to do the job the right way… […] He told me the truth and had class…”

      I would include these traits under Honor and Respect. This is an excellent example of how honor and respect are undervalued and underappreciated, as I described in the third section above. It’s good to see that the janitor’s own wife recognized him as a man of honor and respected him accordingly. As you could see, this had a positive effect on the entire family.

      Liked by 3 people

      • feeriker says:

        “It’s good to see that the janitor’s own wife recognized him as a man of honor and respected him accordingly. As you could see, this had a positive effect on the entire family.”

        This is one of the things about Hispanic culture that I greatly admire: the respect shown to working men who work hard to take care of their families, no matter how humble their jobs. My wife has manifested this attitude when I’ve been between jobs and struggling, when I thought sure that her hypergamous impulses would kick in. Nope. The fact that I was bearing the burden under difficult conditions seemed to increase her respect for me. Even many years ago on my first trip to Venezuela I noticed this. Despite struggling mightily in terrible economic conditions, even poor working men had the respect of their wives and children. It makes what I see around me here among gringas even more painful to behold. Sadly, successive generations of Hispanics in America have begun to adopt the gringa attitude.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Jack says:

        Feeriker, could you describe “gringas” and the “gringa attitude” more precisely for our readers?

        Like

      • thedeti says:

        “Despite struggling mightily in terrible economic conditions, even poor working men had the respect of their wives and children. It makes what I see around me here among gringas even more painful to behold. Sadly, successive generations of Hispanics in America have begun to adopt the gringa attitude.”

        When all you’ve got is a poor, but decent and hardworking man, you take care of him and treat him with respect. When your life will be very, very hard without that poor but decent and hardworking man, you work hard to keep that man.

        When you live in a land of plenty and you can replace a poor, but decent and hardworking man with a job, government money, and more attractive men, and all of society makes it easy to replace him and eggs you on to do it, and when traditional sexual morality is replaced with “you can have whatever you want”, you get rid of that poor but decent and hardworking man.

        We’ve made it very easy for women to get rid of men and live without men. But what women did not anticipate was the reaction to their getting rid of men. Women really did think that men would just keep doing what they had been doing — working, making money, and getting ready to marry women and father their children. Women believed this because that was reality for a long time. Also, because, to put it crudely, “we women have the pu$$y, and men want it, so where else are they going to go? They have to come to us if they want it, so we get to do whatever we want.”

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Jack

        When my family moved to the States, I was appalled that children addressed adults by their first name. I was always taught to address my elders by a title. The typical titles in Spanish are “don” (mister, or sir in English) and “doña” (Mrs., or lady in English). Those words derive from the Latin dominus (lord) and domina (lady).

        My parents never even addressed each other by first name in front of us kids. They always addressed each other as don and doña.

        I always addressed my dad as señor until he died, and I still address my mom as señora.

        Hopefully that helps explain the difference.

        Liked by 3 people

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      “True masculinty: have your “yes” mean yes and your “no” mean no.”

      Masculinity, at least what we see in the Bible, is rooted in Authority and Purpose. LastMod’s statement about yes and no embodies this. A man has a purpose, has the authority to carry it out, and judges if something either undermines his authority or his purpose which is why “yes” being yes and “no” being no fits the bill so well.

      The different characteristics of being a man, or tactics for how to handle specific situations, fall under the seminal attributes of masculinity, Authority and Purpose. These attributes where given to man by God back in the garden when Adam was given authority over the world, to the point of naming everything under God’s creation including woman, and then purpose which was to prosper (subdue the land and be fruitful).

      Getting back to Lastmod’s statement and applying it to real life, a man with a nagging, disobedient wife is having his authority eroded or overridden. Hence you have the Proverbs 21:9 husband longing to live in a desert or on a rooftop. A man without a purpose will be more apt to have a noncommittal approach to life. For the husband, his yes or no might be openly challenged or overridden by his wife and for the uncertain man, the yes or no might change circumstantially.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        I’ll add that in biblical marriage, husbands are to use their authority for the benefit of the family God has given him to manage. This means he is to do what he thinks is best for them with an eternal mindset, regardless if they are happy about it or not. Part of that is going to mean making decisions that the wife doesn’t like and then telling her to knock off her whining when it comes.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. feeriker says:

    “Feeriker, could you describe “gringas” and the “gringa attitude” more precisely for our readers?”

    Very simply, gringas are white, non-Hispanic women. The “gringa attitude” is the typical modern American female attitude.

    Like

  4. feeriker says:

    Oscar says:
    2022-05-03 at 4:01 am

    My Venezuelan MiL uses the title “Señor” when she talks to me, and also uses “Usted” (for non-Spanish speakers, that’s the formal, polite form of “you”). I don’t think I’ll ever get used to that. She’s the sweetest, most loving woman in the world and my wife reminds me that Mama means it as a form of respect (I know she does). I guess as a gringo I have a hard time processing a MiL addressing a SiL with anything other than tolerance (at best) or contempt. It’s a cultural thing.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Oscar says:

      Correct. Let’s not paint too rosy a picture, though. Contentious women exist in every culture, some in my own family. In the old, old days (before my time), girls with an overbearing nature got funneled towards the convent where they were expected to boss people around (if you’re not Catholic, don’t buy the “sweet nun” act). Not so much anymore.

      Also, Hispanic women tend to be more emotionally volatile than women of English, or German descent (most white Americans). Non-Hispanic men need to keep that in mind. You have to expect even more emotional nonsense, and be prepared to stand firmly until she calms down.

      The “hot Latin blood” stereotype exists for a reason.

      Liked by 3 people

      • feeriker says:

        “Also, Hispanic women tend to be more emotionally volatile than women of English, or German descent (most white Americans). Non-Hispanic men need to keep that in mind.”

        If you maintain frame, this can usually be dealt with (i.e., “order restored”).

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        Correct again. Also, keep in mind that Hispanic is a culture with a common language, not an ethnicity.

        My dad was of German descent. My mom is of Spanish and Native American descent. Big difference in temperament.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        “…don’t buy the “sweet nun” act.”

        Hell no. At least not the old school nuns. My grandfather said the Irish ones were the meanest.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        In 2014, I was in an airport, and as I focused on the reader board looking for my connection, I heard a sweet little voice say “excuse me, sir, do you have the time?”

        I looked down. It was a tiny, elderly little nun. I instantly, involuntarily snapped to attention. It had been 30 years since I attended Catholic school.

        That’s the kind of impression old school nuns leave on a boy’s psyche, mostly by leaving impressions on his ass.

        However, going from that order and discipline to crappy inner city California public schools felt like being dropped into a jungle. Given the choice, I’d choose the nuns any day, and twice on Sunday.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Oscar says:

      I wrote this at Dalrock’s a long time ago.

      If a non-Hispanic, Christian, American man wants to look for a more traditional Hispanic Christian woman, but doesn’t want to move to Latin America, his best bet is to make friends with some Christian Hispanic men (preferably immigrants) who attend a traditional church, and learn Spanish. (He doesn’t have to be fluent.)

      Eventually, his buddies will probably invite him to church. Once there, his aim is to earn the respect of the men in the church. Do not hit on the women. I say again — do not hit on the women.

      If he earns the respect of the men, the older women will respect him, and they’ll start guiding him towards young women for whom they think he’s suitable.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        @Oscar,
        That’s good, actionable advice. Thanks for sharing that.

        “If he earns the respect of the men, the older women will respect him, and they’ll start guiding him towards young women for whom they think he’s suitable.”

        Reading this helped me understand a Hispanic young man who attended a Chinese church I used to go to in the States. I think maybe this is what he was expecting to happen, but it didn’t go that way. He was absolutely cool, and he was rather popular in the young adult group. A couple girls really liked him, but they wouldn’t go beyond the friend zone with him. The problem was that Chinese communities are very insular. He could never earn the respect of the older men because they saw him as a “visitor” (translation: an outsider). They didn’t really want him there, and they didn’t want any of their daughters to be with him, but they couldn’t tell him to leave because it was a church. So he just kept coming back for a long time. Eventually, he moved on.

        Like

      • Devon70 says:

        Good advice. The old ways are the best ways.

        Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        “…make friends with some Christian Hispanic men (preferably immigrants) who attend a traditional church, and learn Spanish.”

        Emphasis on “traditional church”. That strategy at any other kind of church is doomed to fail.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ Jack

        You’re right. My advice depends entirely on the openness of the host congregation.

        @ Deti

        Also correct. And those churches are getting harder to find, regardless of the culture.

        Like

  5. feeriker says:

    “When all you’ve got is a poor, but decent and hardworking man, you take care of him and treat him with respect. When your life will be very, very hard without that poor but decent and hardworking man, you work hard to keep that man.”

    This is the bright silver lining to the impending Great Collapse. The West in general, and Amerika in particular, has been spoiled for far too long and badly needs a harsh reality injection.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Lastmod says:

    Okay another example.

    Well dressed office and supply supervisor for a mid-rise office building in Santa Monica (sexuality suspect, he could be gay or just a young man that dresses well and up for work. A rare trait in LA….especially for his position). He runs and has the keys to the large copy room, filing rooms for clients, water delivery to the offices…..general supply.

    The manager there calls him a “back stabber” and “dangerous” to the property / team morale.

    I called one of my better clients / lease holders that I have a good realtionship with, asked him to go to supply, and make a very difficult order. “Be a little impatient and if it cant be done in more than a day, get annoyed….dont cuss but be a bit of jerk. Make a sarcastic remark about the quality of the services we pay for in this company. Don’t insult him, but you know, be a douche about it”

    Watched the whole tinteraction on camera from the security office. Voice recording as well. He s was a PRO. All levels. Knowing his name, smiling, smartly dressed (not over dressed) with a pressed white shirt and tie. Hair perfect. Handled himself with a sense of URGENCY. He calls the manager, manager comes down and sabbatoges it by “denying” most of the services to “save money” despite the client supposedly having use of these services included in their lease. The manager was stalling, and trying to make the supply supervisor look bad.

    He was calm and cool, the manager just didnt feel like picking up the phone and getting maintenace and copy and the other staff together to get this done. So this supervisor did the what he had to do:

    Rolled up his sleeves, tucked his tie in his shirt, called his team in “client services” (three of them) and gave instruction on how to get this done. Even the admin was taking off the low heels and changing into tennis shoes so she could “move quick”

    Lets just say, they all got it done. The next day I came by and told him that client was a “setup” by me to see if we “do as we say” at these properties and leaseholders for the clients we serve. Meaning: high end. He upheld WIT (whatever it takes)

    I then went up to see the manger and we had a constructive talk about empowering staff and letting them DO their jobs, and he is a MANAGER ist his job to coordinate the flow and team here. Not the supply supervisor.

    Supply supervisor: No power. No status. A hard work ethic. A man who eveidently LIKES his job. His waist size was a lean 29″ like mine in college……was he a real man? No. By todays metrics no.

    To me, it takes more than being macho, or owning a gun, being noticed by women.

    Confronting challenges, someone who understands what his job description says. Also…….when the upper floor (management) put up a wall. He went over or around it. That is a man. A determined will. A cool attitude in all of this. He didnt tattlle. He took a calculated risk. He was willing to answer for that risk too by his demainor and how he spoke to the team

    Liked by 2 people

    • Oscar says:

      “Supply supervisor: No power. No status.”

      If you think that man had no status, then you don’t understand what status means.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        I understand exactly what it means. I live in California and LA. His position is a glorified retail supervisor role. Sure, many people can do this. However, he does it well. His manager has zero respect for him. He has no power or status,

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        No, you don’t. He clearly does have status with his subordinates and peers. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t be effective, which is doubly true if his manager doesn’t respect him.

        You’re comparing an ordinary man to the rich, famous and powerful of LA, which means you’re committing the apex fallacy, which leads to a “can’t win, no point in trying” attitude, which explains a lot.

        Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        … except that it appears the supply supervisor has earned your respect and the respect of those people he supervises.

        “Rolled up his sleeves, tucked his tie in his shirt, called his team in “client services” (three of them) and gave instruction on how to get this done. Even the admin was taking off the low heels and changing into tennis shoes so she could “move quick””

        3 people respect him enough to follow his lead in doing “whatever it takes” on a tough task for a client. From your account he did not have to cajole, threaten or negotiate with the 3 team members he is in charge of to get them to comply. That is status. It may not be the same status as a high ranking politician, billionaire businessman or A-list actor, but in his domain at work, he’s a rock star with power and influence over people that he uses to get the job done.

        Frankly, I’d give him the manager’s job as soon as his skillset meets the managerial role’s needs. He’s already proven to have leadership characteristics with smaller responsibility he’d probably be a bigger benefit to y’alls company with more responsibility.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Lastmod says:

      Oh for heavens sake…..

      Status. As in what “women like” and “want” in a man. Thatis the context we are speaking in and with. This man has NO status. No woman will date a well dressed glorified guest services guy in a office tower who makes a few bucks more than minimum wage.

      I get STATUS totally. I have none, or very little. My status is ONLY backed up by a title. If I did not have this title NO ONE would listen to me.

      This guy’s status is non-existent as well. Women don’t like men who dont have status, you all “agree” on this, and THEN you move the goalposts…as usual

      Like

      • Oscar says:

        Your enthrallment with the apex fallacy does not constitute moving goalposts on anyone’s part but yours.

        Like

  7. locustsplease says:

    We were told black kids don’t have positive male role models. But as times have gone on, I don’t think any of us really do. I was raised by people who worship money and their security. I heard some Boomers talking at breakfast and they said some kids came to church and were not in business casual and that was apparently the end of society! Abortion? No fault divorce? Silent. Divorce initiated by females 80% of the time? The enslavement of the father? Votes for women? Hookup culture? Nope. The type of pants you wear is the difference between the heathen and Christians.

    The men I was raised by were almost all soft betas, except one guy. My grandpa was a great all around guy, a leader who DGAF. He would let me drive and do burn outs at 11 years old. He took me hunting all the time. We would drink beer and he’d drive me home, all before the world was ran by pansies. He was a WW2 vet and would tell jokes constantly. He always had a great attitude. Every mayor of a small town within an hours drive away knew him by name.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Oscar says:

      The male role models you describe are deeply flawed, but they’re still positive. By contrast, most black kids (75% grow up with no father at all) are not only growing up with zero positive male role models, they’ve never even met anyone who grew up with positive male role models.

      Liked by 2 people

      • locustsplease says:

        I am coaching my daughters’ sports team. Zero of the children have married parents. One has parents together but they never married which is hard to criticize when they are the only ones who made it. Only one has a father who is not around at all. I was wondering how well received I would be as a large intimidating male coaching an elementary girls team but the moms seem to like me being in charge.

        All white middle class girls with no image of a family to follow. Just, “Hey! Your dad didn’t meet mom’s vanity standards.” It would be interesting to hear what exactly happened in every case, but it’s not my position.

        Liked by 1 person

      • locustsplease says:

        To be fair, I don’t know what positive female role models the average girl has. 20 years ago in high school, none of the girls could cook to save their lives! They were taught it was slavery and they were gonna heat food from boxes for eternity.

        Like

    • anonymous_ng says:

      I heard a comment once that Protestant Christianity was for the middle-class, but Catholicism is for all social classes.

      Your comment about khaki pants reminded me of this comment. If you squint a little bit, the comment has a kernel of truth to it in practice.

      Like

      • locustsplease says:

        Both churches have their differences. You can come to my church in whatever clothes you want. No one will care. Everyone seems dressed up at the Catholic churches I work for.

        Like

  8. info says:

    God himself as the perfect Man qualifies too. Lots of “Alpha” qualities come from Him which Heartiste recognized although in a flawed way:

    God didn’t let others dictate the flow of conversation. But rather pulled them into his rhythm:

    “Jesus is a master of timing. He does not allow people to force him into their rhythm, their definition of the situation. He perceives what they are attempting to do, the intention beyond the words. And he makes them shift their ground.

    Hence the two periods of tension-filled silence; first when he will not directly answer; second when he looks down again at his writing after telling them who should cast the first stone. He does not allow the encounter to focus on himself against the Pharisees. He knows they are testing him, trying to make him say something in violation of the law; or else back down in front of his followers. Instead Jesus throws it back on their own consciences, their inner reflections about the woman they are going to kill. He individualizes the crowd, making them drift off one by one, breaking up the mob mentality.”

    “When Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, the chief priests and elders came to him. “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you this authority?”

    Jesus replied: “I will also ask you a question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. John’s baptism– where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?”

    They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why don’t you believe him?’ But if we say, ‘Of human origin,’ the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.”

    So they answered, “We don’t know where it was from.” Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.” (Matthew 21:23-27; Luke 20:1-8) He proceeded to tell the crowd a parable comparing two sons who were true or false to their father. Jesus holds the floor, and his enemies did not dare to have him arrested, though they knew the parable was about themselves.

    Jesus never lets anyone determine the conversational sequence. He answers questions with questions, putting the interlocutor on the defensive.”

    “Jesus always gets the last word. Not just that he is good at repartee, topping everyone else; he doesn’t play verbal games, but converses on the most serious level. What it means to win the argument is evident to all, for audience and interlocutor are amazed, astounded, astonished: they cannot say another word.

    He takes control of the conversational rhythm. For a micro-sociologist, this is no minor thing; it is in the rhythms of conversation that solidarity is manifested, or alienation, or anger. Conversations with Jesus end in full stop: wordless submission.”

    Truly the Personality of a King.

    Here is the link to the text:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140419230020/http://sociological-eye.blogspot.com/2014/04/jesus-in-interaction-micro-sociology-of.html

    Like

  9. redpillboomer says:

    The thing with Jesus is that He is the perfect man. I believe all of what we talk about on this blog concerning masculinity is tied up in Him in some way or the other. The difficulty I have with Jesus as a role model for me is exactly what am I to emulate in Him? The closest I can get is to let His Spirit work in me over time (sanctification), and gradually I begin to look more like Him, but always an imperfect version of Him and the process (towards sanctification) is a bit mysterious to me. It just seems to show up over time as I put the time in getting to know Him and endeavor to walk with Him, however imperfectly.

    I will say, over the Easter season I watched two programs, The Chosen and The Passion of Christ, and I thought the actors did a good job portraying Christ. Good in that I could relate to Him more in his physical presence on earth and his masculine presence in general; however, still, even in the actor portrayals, Jesus always maintains frame, like he ALWAYS knows how to show up POWERFULLY PERFECT in any given situation, I admire that in Him so greatly; but me be like that? Good luck, not this side of heaven is it going to happen.

    I seem to be able to relate more to Biblical characters that have strong masculine traits and corresponding weaknesses about them. It’s like, “I recognize that trait in me too.” I like King David’s resilience and patience with letting God work things out and not trying to force outcomes, I can relate to that and attempt to emulate it. And, what man cannot empathize with David when he sees Bathsheba bathing? Of course what he subsequently did was totally wrong, aka sin, but being mesmerized by a naked beauty and lusting for her, “Yep, I can relate to that one alright.” So David, even though he’s a larger than life figure in so many ways, his masculinity is relatable to in many ways as well.

    So, maybe relating to some sort of composite picture of masculinity in the Biblical men is a possible way to get at the question I originally posed, “So what exactly does a man respected by other men look like?”

    Liked by 1 person

  10. thedeti says:

    On the subject of faux masculinity….

    My astonishment continues at women who think their own masculine traits (high earner, aggressive, “big personality”) think this makes them attractive to men and that men want women like this.

    Well. Men want to have sex wth women like this. Men are willing to put up with those traits to have sex with women like this.

    The only reason I can think women really do believe men like these traits are because they can occasionally get high value/attractive men for sex. But they never publicly draw the connection between their own masculinity and their perpetual singleness. They either just don’t get this, or they get mixed signals and truly “believe the lie”.

    And yet these are the same people who rake men like me over the coals for “not getting it” that women don’t like nice, kind, affable men for sex and relationships. Women want to be friends with and use men like this for favors, goods and services. Women are willing to use men like this. And women tell men to double down on nice and kind and decent, because “We really love men like you! We really love nice guys!”

    Are people telling women to double down on and lead with “high earner, aggression, and ‘big personality'” as selling points to men? Are people telling women that men really are attracted to women with the great jobs that men would otherwise have, their aggressive b!tchy personalities, and their masculine traits?

    Like

    • Jack says:

      “My astonishment continues at women who think their own masculine traits (high earner, aggressive, “big personality”) think this makes them attractive to men and that men want women like this.”

      This is easily explained as a fundamental error of attribution. Put simply, they believe that the traits they find attractive in others (i.e. men) are applicable to themselves — that others will find them more attractive if they have more of those qualities. I believe this could be augmented by mass formation psychosis — “Everybody believes it, so it must be true!”

      Liked by 1 person

      • thedeti says:

        I’m not sure it’s that simple. I wonder if the fact that aggressive masculine high earning women can continually get sex from high value/attractive men reinforces it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        My thought is that it mostly conditioned. On a grand scale.

        If you don’t act like you are into girls like that, you are shamed because, “You can’t handle a strong woman!” or “You aren’t secure in your masculinity!”

        Strong independent kick ass daughters with guns. Fvck yeah!

        When I talk to men secretly about this, none of them like girls like that.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        A woman who is deferent (not obsequious), likes to be feminine, cute, flirty, agreeable, etc. is like a freak now.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        It really is that simple. I listened to a Stefan Molyneux call in which he talked to a woman in her 30s complaining that she couldn’t find a man. She was a doctor, so obviously high IQ.

        Stefan asked her what she wanted in a man. Her list was typical, and sounded honest.

        Stefan then asked her what a man like that would want in a woman. Her reply was, “I assume the same thing.”

        It really is that simple.

        Like

      • thedeti says:

        “Stefan then asked her what a man like that would want in a woman. Her reply was, “I assume the same thing.”

        Assume.

        ASSUME.

        That’s part of the problem. Erroneous assumptions.

        I think Scott is right that it’s also massive conditioning on a societywide scale.

        Like

      • Dave says:

        RE mass formation psychosis

        The official framing of this “phenomenon” is misleading and wrong. The false hope-addicted psychologists and their acolytes want you to believe this is “just some temporary occasional” madness by the masses that has been going on since only about the 20th century when it is but a spike of a CHRONIC madness going on for aeons with “civilized” people — https://www.rolf-hefti.com/covid-19-coronavirus.html

        One of these mainstream psychologists who have been spreading this whitewashed reality, Dr. Desmet, also fails to see that the Covid Psyop is a TOTALLY deliberate ploy because he doesn’t think it’s ALL intentionally sinister. This makes him witting or unwitting controlled opposition.

        Worst of all, perhaps, the mass formation/mass psychosis notion frames the problem as the public being a mere unaccountable non-culpable victim in this phenomenon. Nothing could be further from the truth (see referenced source above)…

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Dave,
        I had the impression that mass formation psychosis was just a fancy name for how a large number of people latch on to the same notion and ignorantly believe it, simply because everyone else believes it and no one stops to think for themselves. Something like a mob mentality but on a culture-wide scale and less violent. It is apparent that MGM plays a big part of this.

        Your account puts a much different spin on MFP which makes me think I don’t understand it very well. I should look into it further.

        Like

    • redpillboomer says:

      “A woman who is deferent (not obsequious), likes to be feminine, cute, flirty, agreeable, etc. is like a freak now.”

      And freakishly attractive! I know one like that and she’s got men after her from every conceivable angle possible. She’s good looking and still in her twenties, so she’s got the pick of the litter so to speak. All I can think is, “You go girl. Choose wisely!”

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Pingback: How are we supposed to become more like Jesus? | Christianity and masculinity

  12. anonymous_ng says:

    Completely off topic. I depart from FB during Lent.

    Talk about Roe V Wade on there today, I’m guessing because of the Alito leak.

    A friend who’s much younger Polish wife ditched him to be a theater kid once she got to the US and realized that she was a lot hotter here than in Warsaw, posted a meme that RvW will continue as long as it’s a get out of jail free card for men.

    The US has a lot going for it, but at times like this, I want out of here so badly, I’d almost rather live anywhere else than this femdom blue-pill cuckverse.

    Like

    • thedeti says:

      We don’t know the SCOTUS draft was an Alito leak. People have speculated Alito wrote the draft because it reads in his style. The leak was almost certainly one of the Justices’ clerks.

      Like

      • thedeti says:

        regardless of who leaked it, it will be a dissenting opinion. A majority will uphold Roe. Roe has been “settled law” for almost 50 years – it won’t be overturned now. The justices have had numerous opportunities to overturn Roe and they haven’t done it with a 6-3 conservative majority. They won’t do it now with a new “justice” who isn’t even smart enough to know what a woman is.

        I might not be a smart man, but I know what a woman is.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        I’m hopeful that they’ll overturn RvW. The leaker is Sotomayor’s clerk. The most likely reason he leaked the draft is that the majority voted to overturn, and he wanted to cause a big enough uproar to intimidate at least one justice into changing his/her vote. Hopefully, they’ll hold fast. We all need to be praying for them.

        Ultimately, the most important facet of this is spiritual. God showed mercy to the Jews who were deported first to Babylon, and to the Jews who surrendered to the Babylonians, like Jeremiah told them to, because they were repentant and obedient.

        I doubt that repealing RvW will lead to national repentance, but there’s a lot of state-by-state repentance already.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        Like

    • Oscar says:

      Don’t kid yourself. There’s no where left to run. The best we can do is find a defensible position in a strong community here in the States. They do exist.

      Like

    • anonymous_ng says:

      Regardless of who leaked it, and I have no doubt that it will stay the law of the land, what pissed me off was how the meme once again puts all the blame on the men, while women get off Scott free.

      @Oscar, a friend of mine from Seattle asked after one of my rants if the transgender thing is really such a big deal. I don’t understand how someone can not feel hemmed in on all sides by the issue.

      I’m tired of it all.

      I’m tired of Disney wanting 50% alphabet soup characters. I’m tired of the pink breast cancer celebration in the NFL. I’m tired of celebrating criminals and criminal behavior in the name of FREEDOM!!!!

      I’m tired of man bad, woman saintly. I’m tired of freaks of every stripe trying to normalize their degeneracy.

      You say there is nowhere to run, I disagree.

      The world is a big place, bigger than the west. Sure, the other parts of the English speaking world are just as bad. Western Europe is mostly as bad. Perhaps Romania, and Hungary are not. I don’t know about Poland. If Russia hadn’t invaded Ukraine, the three months I spent there was such a nice break from it all. Maybe Jack can speak about Asia.

      You may have a strong community in the US, but your raft of sanity is still floating in the sewage of what the US has become.

      Like

      • Oscar says:

        “I’m tired of Disney wanting 50% alphabet soup characters. I’m tired of the pink breast cancer celebration in the NFL.”

        Then dump Disney and the NFL. It’s not hard.

        “The world is a big place, bigger than the west.”

        I know. I wasn’t born in the States, and I’ve been to much of the world. That’s partly what shaped my thinking.

        “Perhaps Romania, and Hungary are not. I don’t know about Poland. If Russia hadn’t invaded Ukraine, the three months I spent there was such a nice break from it all. Maybe Jack can speak about Asia.”

        Western Europe is heading towards a civil war with their Muslim population, Russia is on track to becoming a Muslim nation, and Eastern Europe is stuck between the two with sub-replacement birth rates.

        Asia will be swallowed up by China after the US falls. The bright side there is that China is on track to become a Christian nation, but that’ll be after we’re dead, and long after the CCP goes a-conquering.

        “You may have a strong community in the US, but your raft of sanity is still floating in the sewage of what the US has become.”

        The raft is getting bigger. We’re preserving the seeds of Christendom for our children and grandchildren, and sewage makes pretty good fertilizer after it’s settled for a while, ironically. I’ll write more later. When I do, I think you’ll understand why I hesitate to offer more details now.

        Like

      • anonymous_ng says:

        You can always ping me offline.

        I’ve already ditched all mainstream media, professional sports, and the rest.

        I’m not saying that you’re completely wrong, but I’m also not agreeing with you.

        For example, people have been saying for at least thirty years that the imbalance in China between the number of men and number of women because of the one-child policy was going to result in, fill in the blank bad thing. Except that it hasn’t. We’ve been hearing for decades how the baby boomers retiring en masse was going to result in fill in the blank bad thing and it has not.

        From my experience, observation, and study, Russia is in no way moving toward being a Muslim nation. France and Belgium have much bigger problems with their Muslim immigrants.

        The entire world has a problem with low birthrates, including the Muslim countries. Was watching a discussion recently, the person pointed out that the more recently a country industrialized, the more quickly they slipped below replacement birthrates.

        I haven’t vetted this person’s conclusions, but they are interesting to consider.

        I look forward to what you have to say Oscar it is always thoughtful.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        From my experience, observation, and study, Russia is in no way moving toward being a Muslim nation.

        Even today, Russia is an empire. The Russians conquered many nations over the centuries, many of which are Muslim nations. Ethnic Russians aren’t having babies. Their birth rate is way below replacement level. You know who’s having lots of babies in Russia, though? Muslims. The following article is from 2019.

        https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/05/russia-will-be-one-third-muslim-in-15-years-chief-mufti-predicts-a64706

        Around 30 percent of the Russian population will practice Islam within the next 15 years, Russia’s grand mufti has predicted, citing demographic trends.

        Russia’s Muslim-majority regions, including republics in the North Caucasus and the republic of Tatarstan, are known to have the highest birth rates in the country, reflecting similar trends worldwide. Various estimates place the current Muslim population in Russia at between 14 million and 20 million people, or between 10 to 14 percent of Russia’s total population of 146.8 million in 2018.
        ……..
        Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov, an official in Russia’s Orthodox Church, agreed with Gainutdin’s forecast and predicted that “there won’t be any Russians left in 2050.”

        “It’s too late,” he told the Govorit Moskva radio station when asked if the demographic trend could be reversed.

        Putin also agrees, though he won’t say so openly. Check out this speech where Putin panders to Russia’s future majority population at the dedication of the biggest mosque in Europe (it’s in Moscow).

        https://muslim.ru/en/articles/137/13878/

        Right from its creation, Russia has always been a multi-ethnic and multi-confessional country. This mutual enrichment of different cultures, traditions and religions has always been our country’s distinguishing feature and strength.

        Moscow’s Muslim community, for example, emerged back in mediaeval times, and this is reflected in the Tatar roots of many of the capital’s street names.

        The traditions of enlightened Islam developed over many centuries in Russia. The fact that different peoples and religions live peacefully together in Russia is in large part thanks to the Muslim community, which has made a worthy contribution to preserving harmony in our society and has always strived to build relations within and between religions based on tolerance for each other’s faiths.

        Today, traditional Islam is an integral part of Russia’s spiritual life. Islam’s humanist values, like the values of our other traditional religions, teach people compassion, justice and care for our loved ones. We place great value on these things.

        The number of mosques and Islamic cultural centres has increased greatly in Russia over the last 20 years. Amazingly beautiful mosques have been built in Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Chechnya and other Russian regions. In 2003, our country became a permanent observer in the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. Thousands of pilgrims from Russia make the hajj, and the number of madrasas and schools attached to mosques has also increased greatly. ~ Vladimir Putin

        Demographics is destiny. Ethnic Russian Orthodox Christians aren’t having babies. Russian Muslims are. There’s no reversing this trend. Everyone knows it.

        For example, people have been saying for at least thirty years that the imbalance in China between the number of men and number of women because of the one-child policy was going to result in, fill in the blank bad thing. Except that it hasn’t.

        It’s not just the sex imbalance. It’s the birth rate in general. China’s one child policy started in 1973, and officially ended in 1975, but the Chinese people are still not having babies. The people born after the one child policy started are in their late 40s. Unless China does something drastic (and the Chinese aren’t shy about doing all kinds of drastic crap), in another 20 years, China’s economy will implode, as the one-child-policy-babies begin to retire.

        We’ve been hearing for decades how the baby boomers retiring en masse was going to result in fill in the blank bad thing and it has not.

        Dude. It’s happening right now.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        I meant to write that China’s one child policy officially ended in 2015. Oops.

        Like

  13. Scott says:

    Man, I remember driving out to Huntington Beach for the KROQ/OP surf championship listening to this.

    “I just want a lover like any other, what do I get?”

    Also. British teeth. Yikes!

    Like

  14. Oscar says:

    She’s a uniter, not a divider.

    Like

    • thedeti says:

      I don’t see why women should have to refuse sex or why this monstrosity is the fault of Republican men.

      Like

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