The Young Man’s Problem

All men struggle with it (or have in the past), but are never permitted to discuss it, much less express it.

Readership: All; men especially;
Theme: Dating and the SMP
Author’s Note:
The content of this post is based on a collection of comments from readers concerning the challenges of being a young single Christian male. Links to the original comments are contained in the initial words. Some comments have been edited for emphasis and readability.
Length: 2,100 words
Reading Time: 7 minutes

The Dire Desire

We are not designed to be alone. We are designed to live in relationship with others. Out of all of our relationships we are were designed to experience unique intimacy and joy with one other person in a relationship so important that God made it the earthly model of His relationship with His kids. Sex within marriage is how this happens. The desire to attain this relationship when single is highly motivating and the hurt and pain that stems from sexlessness in marriage is nearly all consuming (years of personal experience) because we were designed by God to experience the joy and intimacy of sex with a spouse. This is why sex is part of a wife’s calling as her husband’s helpmate.

A key developmental milestone for a man is his relationship to his own sexuality, and I mean that in the broadest possible terms, “sex” including his maleness, his masculinity, and his manhood.

There isn’t a man alive who hasn’t wanted sex and couldn’t get it. This has happened to EVERY man IN THE WORLD. I don’t know ANY man who hasn’t gone through a period of sexual frustration and forced celibacy.

The man who wants sex (which is almost all men) and who cannot get it, loses a piece of his humanity. He becomes less human, less masculine, less “a man”, even if only in his own eyes and in relationship to himself. It causes great distraction and excruciating pain. It causes emotional instability and mental disorders.

It can be maddening. Can’t concentrate. Can’t relax. Can’t stop being self-conscious. Spending 70% of all my energy trying to fight against nature. 90% of my thoughts are about mind control and not about anything beyond “managing” myself. Always jerking off and can’t stop, and feeling guilty and ashamed of it. My grandparents’ generation typically referred to this as a “young man’s problem”. It’s a huge burden.

It gets much worse. Jason pointed out that men who don’t have sex for whatever reason, whether they are incels or volcels, and regardless of LAMPS attributes, including men of faith who choose to wait, are typically seen as backwards, socially inept losers, “betas”, “lesser men”, or “not real men”. Even if it is not explicitly said, it is felt and implied.

The “loss of humanity” and “feel like a lesser man” comments (mentioned above) were intended to capture how inceldom tends to make men feel about themselves, not how they should be seen by other men.

The Waiting (Caterpillar345’s Testimony)

I am in my mid 20’s. I grew up in a good Christian home, regularly attend church, serve/lead on the technical crews (which aligns with my abilities), and have a good (probably very good, for my age) Biblical understanding. I spent several years with my head down and got a STEM degree without partying and carousing in college, assuming that this would be looked upon favorably in the future. I have a good paying job in my field and live on my own with paid-for vehicles and no debt. I have hobbies including ones that involve using my hands and building things (and I don’t play video games). I’m not overweight and am reasonably fit; although I’m not an athletic stud, I certainly hold my own with backpacking, mountain biking, motorcycles, rock climbing, downhill skiing, etc. The church I attend is fairly conservative (not SSM affirming, no women pastors/teachers, sermons always refer to scripture as their basis, etc.). I’m not a particularly charismatic or extroverted man but I work on putting myself out there. And yet, it seems the women I meet (in the church or certainly those not in the church) are not interested in what I’m offering, or are not currently (or on track to be) the Proverbs 31 woman I’m looking for.

I alternate between:

  • Seeing the vision of what a Godly marriage could be and having faith/hope that if I keep doing what I can then God will direct my path to put me in contact with such a woman and bless me with a Godly marriage.
  • Hopelessness about finding such a woman and the fact that God isn’t making any promises to give me such a woman and accepting that I may never have that, meaning a continued celibate life, which causes me to feel guilty about being faithless.
  • Frustration about being in this position, trying to figure out how to get there by hook or crook (such as fornicating if the opportunity presented itself), and again feeling guilty about not having faith that God can provide, and then feeling that I’m having a victim mindset for “trusting God to provide” instead of doing something about it to solve the problem.
  • Frustration towards God because He gave me my sexual nature and said that “a good wife is from the LORD”, and “it is not good for the man to be alone”, and then “don’t fornicate either”, but here I am on my own.

I can only assume that:

  • My attitude, emotions, and social skills still need work in order to be attractive (which is likely).
  • I need to spend more time in the gym and get ripped (which couldn’t hurt).
  • I am not trusting in God to provide so He isn’t providing for me.
  • I still have things to learn before God will bless me in this way.

And yet, none of that takes away from the fact that, as Jack commented:

“It’s maddening. Can’t concentrate. Can’t relax. Can’t stop being self-conscious. Spending 70% of all my energy trying to fight against nature. 90% of my thoughts are about mind control and not about anything beyond “managing” myself. Always jerking off and can’t stop, and feeling guilty and ashamed of it. My grandparents’ generation typically referred to this as a “young man’s problem”. It’s a huge burden.”

Sex is NOT a need on the same level as food, water, sleep, and air. A man will not die without having sex, as evidenced by incels, monks, and any of us who go without sex for an extended period of time. But I do agree it is a deep-seated need for men in the way that Jack mentioned in his comment.

I guess I do feel like a “lesser” man or that part of my masculinity is missing because I’m not successful with women, if that is defined by sleeping with one (or more) of them or being married. But it’s really hard to ignore all of the above and just redefine “success” to be “faithful in God’s eyes because I kept myself from fornicating, even though it was never available to me as an option.” I try hard not to be bitter or resentful about it but the thought of being in Jason’s position in another 20 years is not very encouraging.

The Silence

The expression of a man’s sexual desire has become verboten. Most men are required to neuter themselves in public. They aren’t permitted to express themselves as men… because most men are not sexually attractive. It’s because people have a lot of discomfort with bottom 80% men expressing themselves as men. Part of expressing oneself as a man is through masculinity which includes his sexual desire and desire for sex. It’s because, if you have that desire, you probably will, at some point, act on it, and women DO NOT want bottom 80% men acting on their sexual desires toward them. Or in public.

Especially not in church!

Men are not supposed to be men in or around church. Men are supposed to be good little beta bitchbois with their heads bowed in eternal submission to everyone. They’re to submit to their wives, to other women, and to the effeminate pastor who screams “HOW DARE YOU!” at them. They’re never ever to express that they are sexual beings who desire sexual congress with women they’re attracted to. They’re not to feel that, experience that, want that, or even SAY that they want that. They sure as hell are not to act on it or act like that in any way whatsoever. In Churchian World, even men feeling or expressing sexual desire for attractive women is bad, wrong, evil, immoral, perverted, sick, and criminal.

Yes, “neutering” men is one of the culture’s highest priorities, and what passes for “the church” these days has capitulated fully to the culture. Therefore…

We men must now neuter ourselves and render ourselves sexual blanks to be in a church body.

This statement (in bold) cannot really be taken as satire.

But it gets worse, much worse.

Even if a man does his very best to hold his primal nature in check while pretending to be a listless automaton, it is still not sufficient! We must not even allow ourselves to talk about male sexuality, because that would suggest lewdness, fornication, and other expressions of “toxic masculinity”.

The Church and most Christians really do have a problem with talking about sex and male sexuality. Never mind that women’s secret lives are 10 times worse.

Note also that the “church” doesn’t have the guts to say this directly, even though it’s clearly what their behavior and attitudes endorse. Like the world it worships, the “church” lies and obfuscates compulsively.

Gee. I wonder why men are leaving the church. Why, oh why, might that be happening? Such a conundrum, I cannot imagine why men might feel unwelcome at a place where talking about and facing up to something essential to them as men is viewed as anathema and unChristian.

There’s nothing to “step up” to

In Step up, so they don’t have to (part 1). (2017-5-10) and (part 2) (2017-5-12), St. Dalrock made light of the complementarian refrain that men need to “step up”. “Man up” is a similar phrase heard in churchian circles with an emphasis on marrying single mothers. These phrases are deceptive, because in reality, men have no motivation to take responsibility for all the various social ills created by feminism and progressivism.  It is preaching false bravado to mask paralyzing fear.

You want to know why men aren’t “stepping up”? This is why…

  • Because women are telling men they are nothing and they deserve nothing except whatever leftovers and table scraps some used up s1ut is willing to toss them, and because the Church fully endorses that viewpoint.
  • Because the church is telling men they have to give all they have and then earn what they want from a s1ut who has nothing to give because she let dozens of other men jackhammer her heart into hamburger.
  • Because the church is telling men they have to sit there and listen to some effeminate p_ssyboy who couldn’t assert his way out of a wet paper sack tell them what masculinity is.

The church has largely succeeded in turning its men into not-men. And then they have the nerve to b!tch and complain that the not-men they demanded to be created are not men.

Conclusions

So you see, the issue behind The Young Man’s Problem of today isn’t really about sex and fornication (or the absence thereof), it’s about whether masculinity is condemned or not, and whether expressions of masculinity are forbidden or not. Men are suffering because they’re not finding any forms of masculine expression. Sex is only one such area in which the lack of masculine virility is acutely felt.

The wider culture imposes a double standard on men, saying in essence, “No masculinity allowed! No displays of masculinity… No TALK of masculinity! …but… if you’re sexually active, then we’ll have a bit more respect for you as one approved by the Gynapotheosis.

Hypocrisy!

The church is giving men essentially the exact same message only amplified with false religious guilt. The church capitalizes on the Biblical acumen of sexual desire and fornication, and magnifies this into a guilt-trip hot button, all accompanied by regular “man up” lectures given to the “lesser men” (those who aren’t having sex), which is code for masculinity is childish and/or “worker ants go back to your cubicle and perform!”

This too is hypocrisy, because those men who are actually fornicating are usually given a pass, even within the church, unfortunately.*

All in all, the focus on sex (i.e. the lack, the absence, or the evils thereof) is used to hit men where it most hurts, derail the discussion of masculinity, and stuff men back into their pigeonholes.

Such is the experience of a young man, and this has grown exponentially worse over the last few decades.

* We Christians seriously need to rethink this paradigm and come up with a better system — something that would move men towards viable relationships and marriage instead of rewarding fornication. To this end, Jack has put forth a tentative model in the post, A Volitional Model of Cascade Courtship (2021-11-15).

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Boundaries, Churchianity, Collective Strength, Complementarianism, Conspiracy Theories, Convergence, Culture Wars, Desire, Desire, Passion, Discerning Lies and Deception, Enduring Suffering, Feminism, Holding Frame, Introspection, Male Power, Models of Failure, Perseverance, Purity Culture, Purpose, Self-Concept, Self-Control, Society, Stewardship, Zeitgeist Reports. Bookmark the permalink.

41 Responses to The Young Man’s Problem

  1. cameron232 says:

    “…other men jackhammer her heart into hamburger.”

    That’s a great expression and so true. The man who gets the carousel rider doesn’t get bodily integrity or an intact heart.

    Liked by 2 people

    • redpillboomer says:

      “…other men jackhammer her heart into hamburger.”

      “That’s a great expression and so true. The man who gets the carousel rider doesn’t get bodily integrity or an intact heart.”

      To further the hamburger analogy, their hearts are like the hamburger that’s been cooked and left in the refrigerator as leftovers for a few days. When you pull it out, you’re not sure if it’s still good to eat or not. You smell it and you’re not sure if it’s edible or should just be thrown away. That’s a good description of our late twenty something and early thirty something CC riders.

      I have noticed there seems to be enough simps out there willing to take it on — the aging CC rider. I personally know a number of thirty something, single women who have found a guy to marry them. When they post their pics on social media I look closely at the guy, and inevitably they occur to me as blue pill, beta, simps. They may have some masculine qualities about them, you know, tall, fairly good looking, etc. BUT, they all look CLUELESS to me in what they’re getting there with their CC rider. I can see it in their eyes and facial expressions so to speak. All I can think is, “Good luck buddy, you’re going to need it.”

      Liked by 5 people

      • Scavos says:

        “I personally know a number of thirty something, single women who have found a guy to marry them. When they post the pics on social media I look closely at the guy, and inevitably they occur to me as blue pill, beta, simps. They may have some masculine qualities about them, you know, tall, fairly good looking, etc. BUT, they all look CLUELESS to me in what they’re getting there with their CC rider. I can see it in their eyes and facial expressions so to speak. All I can think is, “Good luck buddy, you’re going to need it.”

        These are guys my age range and I see this quite a bit. With the women, I can’t tell if their smile says, “I’m so happy to be married to him soon!” or “Thank God I found my life insurance policy in time!”

        Liked by 3 people

  2. feeriker says:

    “It’s because, if you have that desire, you probably will, at some point, act on it, and women DO NOT want bottom 80% men acting on their sexual desires toward them. Or in public.

    Especially not in church!

    Men are not supposed to be men in or around church. Men are supposed to be good little beta bitchbois with their heads bowed in eternal submission to everyone. They’re to submit to their wives, to other women, and to the effeminate pastor who screams “HOW DARE YOU!” at them. They’re never ever to express that they are sexual beings who desire sexual congress with women they’re attracted to. They’re not to feel that, experience that, want that, or even SAY that they want that. They sure as hell are not to act on it or act like that in any way whatsoever. In Churchian World, even men feeling or expressing sexual desire for attractive women is bad, wrong, evil, immoral, perverted, sick, and criminal.”

    This is why “Chuck Furch” is becoming the most popular and influential guy among Christian men — young, middle-aged, or old, single or married — who have any self-respect whatsoever as men, or any understanding of what the Scriptures really say about male sexuality and men’s roles in marriage and family.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. anptak says:

    I see another aspect that is mostly contributing to this problem. Young women are being groomed to be workers, not wives and mothers. They are going to college, post-grad, and being encouraged to advance in a career. This is causing young women to DELAY marriage for almost 10 years or more. They have been groomed to be like men — to be ambitious and to provide for themselves. So when they are ready for marriage, they don’t really want a husband, in the traditional sense. They just want a companion (a partner), someone to be a father to their children. Basically, they want an accessory like a handbag. Most will want to continue to work and have a career. Some will even insist that the husband take care of the children so that they can continue to focus on their career. Almost none of them are interested in being a stay at home wife/mother, let alone the biblical role of a wife. Generally, men don’t want this. Men and women no longer are on the same page.

    My 29 year old son, a solid Christian, is beyond frustrated in the inability to find a suitable young woman. Almost all the women he meets are career oriented and are not even interested in being married (yet).

    Liked by 3 people

    • info says:

      anptak wrote,

      “My 29 year old son, a solid Christian, is beyond frustrated in the inability to find a suitable young woman. Almost all the women he meets are career oriented and are not even interested in being married (yet).”

      Matchmaking will have to make up for that somehow. So that a much greater net is cast outside the social circles your sons hang out at.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Scavos says:

    This post definitely hits home for me. I know I’ve got plenty to improve on (deti can attest to this), but there are a lot of times where I go, “What’s the point?”

    This is one of the few places where I can find people to talk with about this sort of thing. I certainly don’t talk to most of the leadership in my church. They would mostly respond in the statements above. Then they wonder why I don’t open up to them much.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Rock Kitaro says:

      Same. And for me… I find myself honestly struggling to remain humble. I know so many people who have given into the lies and followed modern culture. Obviously, I don’t want to belittle anyone, but when I hear of people talking about hooking up or being single parents as if it’s no big deal… classic example:

      A couple of weeks back on my boss’s last (hopefully last one ever) radio show, the Atheist kept cheering about the radio station getting a young quadriplegic fan to lose his virginity. The Atheist already knows I’m a Christian Virgin willingly waiting till marriage to have sex, so she kept bringing up this fan losing his virginity hoping to bait me into an argument, because she loves arguing.

      But I refrained, we’ve already argued about this before. And to explain on-air why I think that’s a terrible thing, to hire a hooker, or get a random woman who’s not his wife to agree to have sex with this young man just to get him to lose his virginity… If they don’t believe what I believe about morality, what’s right and wrong, then it seems to ultimately become an on-air condescending battle of “Rock thinks he’s better than everybody.”

      Sad part is… in a way, I honestly do think I’m better off than everyone who willingly rejects the Word of God.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Jack says:

        Rock wrote,

        “A couple of weeks back on my boss’s last (hopefully last one ever) radio show, the Atheist kept cheering about the radio station getting a young quadriplegic fan to lose his virginity. The Atheist already knows I’m a Christian Virgin willingly waiting till marriage to have sex, so she kept bringing up this fan losing his virginity hoping to bait me into an argument, because she loves arguing.”

        I doubt she is seriously concerned about this man’s contentment. She just wants the ego satisfaction of debauching him in the most common, socially acceptable way. Otherwise, she would feel humbled by his example, and she’s allergic to humility. She also get’s an ego thrill out of wrangling with you on the topic. So to respond to this challenge successfully, you’ll have to address her ego needs somehow.

        Have you ever tried Agree and Amplify? Since this is a talk show, this game technique might work.

        “So you think just because he’s a quadriplegic, then his life is a waste?!? Well, in that case… Yeah! Let’s get him a hooker, or a fly-by-night clap-trap hoe that will F_ck him up and break his heart! He11 yeah! Better yet, let’s break his bank account and get three or four every week! Whooo baby! Life is short! Live it up! While we’re at it, why not give him a few shots of Jack Daniels, a couple joints, and some cocaine! He11, why stop there? Have some meth buddy! You’re only young once, and sex and drugs may be the only joy you’ll ever have! [more seriously] So what is the end game here? What is the motivation?”

        Liked by 1 person

  5. Red Pill Apostle says:

    Caterpillar345,

    — I am not trusting in God to provide so He isn’t providing for me.
    — I still have things to learn before God will bless me in this way.

    I believe I have a few more miles on me than you do, and the following I have seen in my own life, as well as in scripture. If God had to wait for me to trust Him in order for Him to provide, He would never do anything. What I have found is that God’s faithfulness to me, even when I am not faithful to Him, is rarely ever in the way that I envision or want it to be. In other words, God’s goodness to me is rooted in providing what I need, given the eternal view, not the temporal one. This is often uncomfortable to down right painful, but to say that He is not providing to me due to my routine lack of trust is not true.

    I am always learning, sometimes quicker but usually slower, from life’s lessons. The blessings are often the lessons themselves, but without God’s eternal view it takes time to see them for what they are. I will state with no uncertainty that the process leading to sanctification has suffering at it’s core. deti and I had this come up in a discussion off thread, because in both of our marriages it has been the periods of turmoil that resulted in the changes both in our wives and in ourselves that benefited our marriages most.

    Hang in there and continue to actively look for the blessings in your life even when it’s not going the way you’d prefer. When you apply this mindset you will see God’s blessings in your life, which will result in gratefulness, and from gratefulness will come joy, even though life still has struggles. It’s a hard place to get to, but a great place to be.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “The blessings are often the lessons themselves, but without God’s eternal view it takes time to see them for what they are.”
      […]
      “Hang in there and continue to actively look for the blessings in your life even when it’s not going the way you’d prefer.”

      Here’s a verse that deals with this topic and has been important to me.

      Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
      But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

      This is one of those verses that you think you understand, until you realize that it means something different from what you thought. We tend to have our own concept of what a reward is, but what we get is not at all what we expect.

      Liked by 3 people

  6. Maniac says:

    RPA brings up a good point above. I’m also trying to break free of “Barometer Christianity” wherein I’m convinced that God will bless me if I get all my proverbial ducks in a row and my number of sins down to a lower number per day, week, etc.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jack says:

      Re: “Barometer Christianity”

      “I’m convinced that God will bless me if I get all my proverbial ducks in a row and my number of sins down to a lower number per day, week, etc.”

      This kind of thinking is very common among many Christians, especially within Evangelical Protestantism. It is basically a “works” consciousness combined with the Prosperity gospel. In practice, it surfaces as “sin” consciousness.

      I used to be this way too, and yes, it’s a struggle NOT to think this way, even after you know better. I’ve learned that it is rather futile to operate out of a “sin” consciouness, because it seems like the more I focus on improving my shortcomings, the worse they get. The way to escape this kind of thinking is to keep reminding myself of how it is a fallacy, or even a trap of legalism in some areas, and keep pursuing a Ministry/Mission/Headship consciousness instead. In other words, focus on loving others. I’ve also learned to keep it lite by doing silly things just for the humor and the glory of God (but maybe that’s just me).

      Liked by 2 people

  7. Rock Kitaro says:

    D@mn… this one hits home. Articulates pretty much what I’ve been thinking for a long time. And with the recent news of yet another cultural leader (Rihanna) getting pregnant by Tyrone outside of wedlock, my hope of things getting better just isn’t there. But regarding the suffering we have to endure, one of the most encouraging scriptures I’ve read on the subject is Romans 5:3-5.

    Romans 5:3-5 (ESV)
    3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

    Even if the world doesn’t see our pain and sacrifice, God does.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. locustsplease says:

    I’m at Caterpillar345’s point #4. My church has tons of single attractive young women. I attend 3 church groups per week. In 7 years, I have had a conversation with zero single young attractive women. How is this even possible? I get compliments about how good of a father I am from women frequently, even young women in public. I have had married men at church tell me how jealous they are of my position to take my pick of many attractive potential wives. Many things have happened in this time to dissuade me also; such as married women at church flirting with me and getting angry when I didn’t reciprocate. Girls seeming single, then I find out she’s married or dating someone but comes to church alone. WTF!?!

    Then in the rest of life I meet all kinds of hot young women. I’m consistently the 3rd, 5th, or 9th wheel when I go out with buddies and their SO’s. I get advances all the time which I have to turn down because I would like to meet a girl who is currently a Christian. It’s not uncommon for a hot young girl to hold a door open for me when I enter a building with a glimmer in her eye. I have met countless men and couples at church. From what I can gather, young single girls go to the college weekly groups. When that’s done they are mostly married and start groups with their close friends. No I’m not willing to work in the young adult ministry just to get a few chances with chicks. I have to keep my last shred of dignity.

    I was pretty optimistic until last year. My standards are not dropping, bending, or breaking. I would rather get shot and killed than marry a woman with any of the red flags I want to avoid. But the reality is, 7 years of zero conversations puts tons of pressure and not a lot of fun on the first relationship 😦 , which I feel is turning me into some kind of beta simp which I’ve never been. Online dating is a cesspool I refuse to be a part of. But if I date a girl tomorrow and it doesn’t work out, I’ll be almost 46 before I meet another one at this rate. So the smart money is on dying alone.

    Liked by 3 people

    • @ locustsplease

      “From what I can gather, young single girls go to the college weekly groups. When that’s done they are mostly married and start groups with their close friends. No I’m not willing to work in the young adult ministry just to get a few chances with chicks. I have to keep my last shred of dignity.”

      Really.

      So you want to be married but you refuse to do things that give you a good chance of meeting Christian single women when you know that’s how most young Christian women meet their spouse?

      Sounds like an ego/pride issue not a dignity issue. You’re sabotaging yourself.

      I went to multiple young adult groups and met many different people before I met a few friends who introduced me to my wife. And it’s not just women. I met some lifelong male friends as well that I can go deep with and fellowship and talk about anything. I’m happy I did.

      Like

      • Joe2 says:

        I disagree. Sounds like @locustsplease really doesn’t want to get married and is just offering excuses to rationalize his decision.

        “My church has tons of single attractive young women. I attend 3 church groups per week. In 7 years, I have had a conversation with zero single young attractive women. How is this even possible?”

        I find it hard to believe that you lack the confidence to approach any of the single young women and start a conversation. It seems that you may be afraid of having a relationship.

        Like

      • locustsplease says:

        I’m not that young at 37. But a lot of young women show interest in me, just not at church. I’m sure most assume I am married because nearly all men my age at church are. I have attended 10 different church groups and met exactly no one. What I meant to say is that our church has a college ministry, not young adult, and I never went to college. No singles groups. I want a house wife, not student loan debt.

        Then I attended a church class which was 3 hours long. I got the time wrong and showed up a half hour late, so all the tables were set and full. So I didnt even have a choice where to sit. One table had 1 girl who was attractive and about my age; the rest were full. So I was thinking, “OK, this is great! I will meet 1 single chick!” I introduced myself and soon found out how far behind I was. I sat close to her because sitting at a round table is hard on your neck after hours of presentation — not that I was making aaannnny kind of move. It was just because I could see forward easily in that quarter of the table.

        And two hours later, a guy at the table behind me got up and sat down next to her and put his arm around her. The next hour may have been the most awkward of my life. Why weren’t they sitting together? Why was he at a packed table the whole time? I had no idea. I told one of the pastors, “They both should be banned for doing that to me!” 🙂

        I can’t cold approach girls at my church — promise — I did not want to be celibate the rest of my life when I started years ago. I thought I would get a reward; I did. And yes, God has blessed me in many ways, just not the one I really wanted. It doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future, but I have to work on being fine with it.

        Like

      • @ locustplease

        “I’m not that young at 37. But a lot of young women show interest in me, just not at church. I’m sure most assume I am married because nearly all men my age at church are. I have attended 10 different church groups and met exactly no one.”

        Big thing to do is network. Yeah, you might not meet someone that goes to that group, but someone who goes to that group might know people. I didn’t meet my wife at the group I went to, but they knew a woman who met a bunch of my criteria.

        It also forces you to get to know people well and be comfortable about talking about relationships while being assertive about what you’re looking for, which are all useful skills to have.

        Could also be the area in which you live as well.

        “What I meant to say is that our church has a college ministry, not young adult, and I never went to college. No singles groups. I want a house wife, not student loan debt.”

        This is the wrong type of assumption to make. While it’s true a bunch of men and women have student load debt, not all do and for those that do it’s not necessarily huge. Some families help pay for some or most or all of college. There’s also some like my wife who worked through college to minimize loan debt.

        “I can’t cold approach girls at my church — promise — I did not want to be celibate the rest of my life when I started years ago. I thought I would get a reward; I did. And yes, God has blessed me in many ways, just not the one I really wanted. It doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future, but I have to work on being fine with it.”

        Who do you approach at Church then? What ministries are you involved with? How are you loving and serving others?

        Generally, all of these things help you network and know people, and then you can talk about relationships and stuff with them and it leads to networking through there.

        Searching alone is tough, but it’s not meant to be that way.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Locustsplease wrote,

        “And two hours later, a guy at the table behind me got up and sat down next to her and put his arm around her. The next hour may have been the most awkward of my life. Why weren’t they sitting together?”

        I think this situation is rather common. The man is doing something in a social setting, and his woman tags along to be around him. But she can’t really participate herself, so she stays at some distance and watches what’s happening. Once in a while, they’ll touch base with each other and then resume their respective activities.

        To give the reader some examples, here’s a couple similar experiences I’ve had.

        One time, I went to a bar and ordered a beer. I saw there was an attractive woman sitting a couple seats away from me at the bar, so I moved over to the next seat and started talking with her. She was surprised that I came to talk with her, but she was very happy to have someone to talk with. A few minutes later, the bartender came over and said to me, “Be careful. Her husband is sitting at that table over there.” I looked across the room to the table he indicated, and I saw a bunch of men playing a card game and gambling. They were all totally raving drunk. I felt really embarassed to discover I had moved in on a married woman, so I paid the bartender for my drink, thanked him, and left. The bartender did me a huge service.

        The thing I learned from this experience is that women love male attention, even when they’re married. At the time, I thought this woman was a dishonest troublemaker for not telling me she was married, and instead let the bartender do it. But after taking the Red Pill, I learned that all women are like that. They just want attention and validation, and they don’t care about any trouble they cause.

        Another time, I started attending a new church. The first couple Sundays, there were two college aged girls who took the opportunity to approach me and get to know me better. They were very friendly and we talked a long while, so at first, I thought they were expressing an interest in me. But after I became more acquainted with the people there, I discovered that these two girls already had steady boyfriends who were not regular church attendees. Those girls never told me this; it was the Pastor’s wife. For some reason, having a boyfriend gave these girls the confidence to talk to other men. As time went on, I learned that there were other girls who were single and interested in me, but they didn’t have the confidence to approach me. The only clue they gave off is that they became really animated and frighteningly giggly and silly whenever we were interacting. Nobody at all told me that these girls were interested in me. I only figured it out when a couple other guys started c0ck blocking me.

        The thing I learned from this experience is that women who are more confident, forward, and relaxed about meeting men are usually already taken, and that is precisely why they are more confident, forward, and relaxed. So it’s rather unrealistic to expect a single woman who is interested in you to initiate and do the pursuing. (Deti has pointed out that this is exactly what they should be doing, and I agree, but I think women aren’t going to do that, so it’s probably more practical for men to learn how to detect IOIs.)

        The thing I learned from both of these experiences is that anytime you see a woman who is more attractive than most, chances are good that she’s already taken (or that she’s one of those types that doesn’t want to be attached to anyone), and this is especially true when she is one who frequents social events. So the wise thing to do is to hang around for a while until you get to know the people there. Of course, this requires an investment of your time and emotional labor.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. catacombresident says:

    Broad general statement aimed at no one in particular: God is destroying the West, so this is a very bad time to get married in any Western society. Many other prophetic voices are saying the same thing. Good covenant women are out there, but they are exceedingly rare in the West. Covenant men should consider going abroad to non-Western countries to find a wife.

    Your personal convictions may suggest another path; take that. But finding a worthy woman in America is now a total miracle.

    Liked by 1 person

    • @ catacombresident

      “Broad general statement aimed at no one in particular: God is destroying the West, so this is a very bad time to get married in any Western society. Many other prophetic voices are saying the same thing. Good covenant women are out there, but they are exceedingly rare in the West. Covenant men should consider going abroad to non-Western countries to find a wife.”

      God is doing no such thing nor is Satan either. Scapegoating Satan is the most annoying one where people blame their sin on Satan when it’s 99% of the time falling to their own temptations.

      Humans by themselves fall to temptation and their own desires for it to be destructive on their lives and the lives of those around them. En masse to the whole society. God is not destroying the West. Humans are.

      And it’s already been fairly debunked about foreign wives. The vast majority of the time you bring them here and they assimilate the culture and you’re left with that anyway.

      The vetting and teaching/discipling process is required regardless of local or foreign women.

      Liked by 1 person

      • catacombresident says:

        False dichotomy; God’s wrath works through human choices. Those who reject God’s ways will eventually reap the whirlwind. I assert that the West is fundamentally pagan and evil; the current malaise was built in and now bears fruit. “God is destroying the West” is not incompatible with “mankind is destroying the West.” Recognizing God’s disfavor on the West helps us to see why the situation is hard on earnest servants of the Lord. It’s not God’s personal disfavor on those earnest men seeking godly wives; they happen to occupy space and time coinciding with His judgment on the world in which they live. I don’t suggest good men bring foreign wives back here; go somewhere else to get out from under this massive burden of His wrath. Marry there and stay there. Otherwise, be prepared for the worst.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ catacombresident

        “False dichotomy; God’s wrath works through human choices.”

        I don’t disagree; it can be both (e.g. Romans 1), but you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. Namely, it’s easy for Christians and non-Christians alike to scapegoat God or Satan for individual choices that someone makes instead of taking responsibility for them.

        Christians in particular need to be wary of this because it’s easy to blame God (e.g. why we have verses in James that talk about God not tempting anyone) or Satan (e.g. very few people in the Bible were tempted directly by Satan), when mostly it’s people who fell prey to their own selfish desires at the time.

        Like

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  11. Devon70 says:

    The best life for a man is a healthy marriage, but I don’t think this is a realistic option for most young men in the U.S. The one benefit of getting older is your libido becomes less of a problem and you can think clearly. If a guy is single in his mid thirties, there really aren’t any woman that don’t have major problems, and it’s best to focus on building the best single life you can. When I was younger, I wish there were channels like Better Bachelor where I could have gotten some guidance and support.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. feeriker says:

    “The one benefit of getting older is your libido becomes less of a problem…”

    Not always. Indeed, sometimes libido gets stronger with age.

    Like

  13. info says:

    A broken clock is right twice a day:

    “The church’s war against masculine sexuality began around 50 A.D. when some post apostolic church fathers began to follow false doctrines of asceticism. Clement of Alexandria taught that sex was a desire of the flesh and that men should only have sex for “begetting children” and not because of “desire he feels for his wife”. Later in 400 A.D., Augustine would call the sexual desire of a husband toward his wife a “venial fault”.

    “Men should not sexually objectify women” , “Men are dogs”, “Men should only be sexually attracted to one woman and that is their wife”. It is these narratives and others that men are bombarded with every day of their lives. And make no mistake, these narratives represent a visceral hatred for male sexuality as God designed it. And at the same time that the church and feminists denigrate the visual and physical aspects of male sexuality – they exalt the feminine relational and emotional sexual nature as the ideal that men should strive for.”

    Biblical Gender Roles: The War on Masculine Sexuality (2022-1-23)

    Liked by 1 person

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  15. Caterpillar345 really should stop reading my diary. Joking aside, I’m in a similar position — the traditional 6 figures income, the 6-pack abs, just under 6 feet tall, plus I serve in leadership positions at church. On paper, I’m the perfect target for young women, but I never see IOIs from Christian women. Ironically, I’ve gotten them from secular women (and lesbians, strangely), so it’s not that I’m coming out of left field. It’s incredibly frustrating.

    I wanted to do more than just lurk like usual because something hasn’t been discussed: The few HVFs are snapped up by Will WorshipLeader and Chad College “Director” before the actual HVMs finished college. Will and Chad peak by 30 and are passed by men like Caterpillar, but because he was a come from behind candidate, Cat gets screwed. Short-term pain (college grind) doesn’t actually equal long-term gain (happy marriage) in the real world. But because we’re men who solve problems and not post-wall women who whine about them, I want to propose 2 solutions.

    First, date younger. At 25, an 18-19 year old doesn’t fit the /2 +7 rule, but if you follow Deep Strength’s 18-month meet-to-marriage timeline, the resulting 26M to 20F does. In doing this, you are copying Will and Chad but are more aware of your long-term value. Challenges: a) You have to deal with your church’s stigma towards this and b) You may have to wade through a lot of immaturity since you’re probably going to have to train your spouse.

    Second, improve your demographics. I’ve seen this before in the sphere, but it bears a true deep-dive beyond just a comment. Go to places with large female populations, attend churches holding traditional values, and select activities that both interest you and would be more female dominated. Basically use the wisdom you’ve got from the manosphere and college (ha) to structure your life around things that optimize your proximity to HVF while not compromising on your own life goals.

    It’s definitely easier to just bemoan mine and Cat’s unenviable position, but that doesn’t mean we should.

    Liked by 4 people

    • caterpillar345 says:

      Frank, I appreciate the solutions-oriented attitude.

      Between this post, your comment, and deti’s post from today, it seems there are three pieces of actionable advice and one overarching concept to understand for young men who desire to have a Godly, headship-type marriage:

      Overall:
      “Resolve the question of lordship. Who will your lord and master be? Decide that, and then walk it out. Face the fact that you probably will not marry.” – thedeti

      Actionable Advice:
      — If you are resolved to marry, then you need to improve your attractiveness. Get in the gym, lose the weight, put on muscle mass, and get in shape. Learn what women are attracted to. Don’t give of yourself to any woman who isn’t responding in kind. Don’t put up with poor treatment from anyone, much less women.
      Date younger, despite the stigma towards it. Be prepared to deal with the immaturity of a younger woman who you will likely have to “train” (although I would add there are more and less mature younger women).
      Improve your demographics. Don’t expect to find a marriage-minded potential mother who loves little kids and desires to support her husband in a major metropolitan liberal mainline churchian congregation. An old pastor once said to me, “You’ve got to go hunting where the ducks are.” Put yourself in the places where you expect the kind of woman you’re looking for would be.

      Liked by 3 people

      • I think you nailed it with your summary and actionable items — good stuff! I’d also add “get a lucrative job” and “learn how to dress to your body type” to the first one. A built, well-groomed, financially successful man at 25 is going places in life.

        I might also add a fourth one — become more attuned to IOIs. Secular women will be more obvious about these, so increasing your discernment towards other people will enable you to notice subtle ones from girls that aren’t as confident. To Jack’s earlier comment, “frighteningly giggly and silly” girls often may be good wife material, but you wouldn’t notice because they can’t control themselves quite yet.

        Liked by 2 people

    • @ Frankchalmers,

      “Caterpillar345 really should stop reading my diary. Joking aside, I’m in a similar position — the traditional 6 figures income, the 6-pack abs, just under 6 feet tall, plus I serve in leadership positions at church. On paper, I’m the perfect target for young women, but I never see IOIs from Christian women. Ironically, I’ve gotten them from secular women (and lesbians, strangely), so it’s not that I’m coming out of left field. It’s incredibly frustrating.”

      I think part of this is due to ‘Churcian culture’ where women aren’t supposed to be, in any way, shape, or form, forward about being interested. So they tend to suppress them more often than not, leaving most men more clueless than secular girls at least.

      This generally puts the onus on men to strike up a conversation and start interacting, which sucks, but it is what is is. Gotta learn how to do it.

      Alternatively, if you’re the type of man who likes to do activities, you can invite men and women to the Church, where it’s easier for them to have conversations, and see if they’re interested in that way. You can also invite them to more informal settings too.

      Like

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