What constitutes Adultery?

When sex is abused in such a way that the joy and intimacy of the sexual relationship is ruined between man and wife.

Readership: All; Men;
Theme: The Integrity and Fidelity of Marriage
Author’s Note: This is a more or less original post based on a previous comment with some added input from Jack.
Length: 2,300 words
Reading Time: 8 minutes

This post is about adultery, but instead of tackling the typical arguments about “sin”, I’m going to build this argument by going back to the foundations of marriage.

The Purpose of Marriage

Marriage is supposed to serve a small number of very important purposes.

  1. To glorify God. (Headship is necessary to do this, among other things.)
  2. To serve as a vehicle of sanctification for the man and wife. (Headship and regular sex plays a central part of this, among other things.)
  3. To hedge against sexual immorality.
  4. To create the dominion of a family. (Again, Headship.)
  5. To produce Godly offspring. (Not possible if all of the above are not in place, including Headship.)
  6. To provide a safe harbor from the world.

An ideal marriage should fulfill all of these purposes. As far as I can see, the Catholic and Orthodox conditions for marriage serve to uphold these purposes.

The Conditions for Marriage

I stand with the Roman Catholic Church on the ontological definition of marriage. Ontologically, marriage requires four distinct elements:

  1. There has to be a mental assent and agreement between man and woman, a “meeting of the minds” concerning their mutual intentions to be joined together inseparably.
  2. There has to be a heart assent and agreement to engage in everything that marriage entails, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. In other words, they are both agreeing to the inclusion into the union of God, Who then completes the work and mystery of knitting them together.
  3. There must be a public acknowledgment to the world of their mental and heart assent. This usually takes the form of some kind of public declaration each makes (e.g. in a wedding ceremony): “This is my husband.” “This is my wife.”
  4. There must be a physical (and better if emotional) consummation in the form of sexual congress.

This definition of marriage never changes, and has been so since God joined Adam and Eve.

Other Notions of Marriage

Now, I want to point out that this concept of marriage is different from two other very common notions of marriage: (1) Legal Marriage, and (2) Sex = Marriage. I’ll contrast the differences briefly here.

Legal marriage is only a legally recognized union between two individuals which grants the woman certain benefits, encumbers the man with certain burdens, and ostensibly creates obligations and rights for both, allegedly flowing both ways. Legal marriage is whatever the State says it is, and is ever changing. It’s why legal marriage today is an arrangement in which women get everything and men get nothing; women have all the rights and men have all the burdens. In today’s version of legal marriage, women need not do anything while men must do everything; women have all the authority and no responsibility while men have all the responsibility but no authority. We really don’t have too many true marriages, or many of them don’t start that way. Many marriages are legal marriages that eventually evolve into marriages, or end before they do. Most marriages include only the third and fourth ingredients, but never include the first or second.

2. Sex = Marriage

In a sense, this is true, as we typically regard those who are in a sexual relationship to be “off the market”, and, as I will describe in the next section, sex is the central defining element of a marriage. However, this concept of marriage is quite distinct from the ontological definition of marriage, because it lacks certain elements of (1) and (2), i.e. their mutual intentions to be joined together inseparably, the inclusion into the union of God, and a faith-based commitment to remain loyal and true to one another.

So to me, and to most of us, the act of sex does not by itself mean you’re married.

Now, you can have all kinds of sex with someone; but you ARE NOT married until all four of those conditions have happened with one other person.

So to those who might say, “if you’ve had sex, then you’re married”, well, I can get your drift, but I can’t take such a marriage seriously, because without all four of these conditions, people just have sex or enter into relationships of varying duration and intensity.

Note 1: A common-law marriage is nothing more than the state’s attempt to define cohabitation as a legal entity and thereby assign rights and responsibilities under the law.
Note 2: No Fault Divorce transforms marriage into an arrangement of convenience because it undercuts the sense of permanency offered by a life-time commitment. Jack has comically and accurately called this living arrangement,
“playing house with a revolving door“.

Sex is the sine qua non of marriage

Most people (especially Christian Manosphere men) believe that when someone in a committed relationship has sex with someone else, then that breaks all bargains, mostly because sex is the sine qua non of marriage. Christians especially identify sex and marriage as concomitant (or they should), simply because the Bible is very clear that sex should be contained within marriage.

In case you’re not following me, let me break it down.

Sex is the only thing I can do with Mrs. deti that I am not permitted to do with anyone else. So if she evades or refuses having sex with me, it demonstrates that the one thing I get from her that I cannot get from anyone else has been taken away from me and I’ve been deprived of it. If in my marriage, I cannot get even sex from my wife, even the one thing I cannot get anywhere else, then I can rightfully consider myself to be no longer married. Here, I’m not necessarily referring to commitment or legal status, but it could. I’m saying that the marital relationship we had that once was is now broken and gone, and whatever relationship we have from thenceforth will be fundamentally different in a multitude of ways.

Jack once said something to the effect that if a husband and wife aren’t screwing each other, then it’s only a matter of time until one or both of them start screwing someone else — if they haven’t already. In my opinion, a woman who refuses sex to her husband is cheating on him. She’s depriving him unfairly of something that his marriage entitles him to, and that’s sex. Wives — if you’re not having sex with your husbands whenever they reasonably ask or expect it, then *you are cheating on them!*

Adultery is when the sine qua non of marriage is defiled

Similarly, if she has sex with someone else, I can rightfully consider that her having sex with another, and not with me, means she has left and abandoned the marriage, and has left and abandoned me. Again, I’m not necessarily referring to abandonment in the physical sense, although that may very well be the case. I’m saying that the bond we had that we once shared is now broken and gone, and whatever relationship we have from then on will be markedly different in many ways.

When I say the relationship will be different, we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking that with a little love and forgiveness, it might somehow become better, “by the grace of God”. No, that’s not how God’s grace works. Sooner or later the gavel of divine judgment will drop. There might be a rare exception, but not for most. The sexual bond is defiled, meaning that I can never again view her with the same abandoned passionate sexual interest that I once enjoyed. It gets worse. Every time I touch her or kiss her, I’ll be fighting bitter memories and feelings of jealousy and anger. I will never find contentment and by extension, sanctification, with my wife. Marriage then becomes a spiritual battle that is fought daily, and daily lost. At worst, we’re flirting with ħәll fire.

Look at all the men who stumble onto the Manosphere after being shoved through the meat grinder of wife-initiated divorce. They think they’re looking for P_ssy, but in fact, they’re seeking the satisfaction of the sanctification they rightfully expected in marriage and were wrongfully defrauded of. That should give us an idea of how much sex is identified with marriage, as I described above. They’re looking for God, and they don’t even know it.

We cannot deny that sex is the sine qua non of marriage – an indispensable condition, element, or factor. It’s something essential to the foundation of a marriage. You can’t remove that piece of the puzzle. You can’t change the equation and still get a real solution. No way. Nada.

What Constitutes Adultery?

So now let’s talk about exactly what “adultery” is in terms of what “marriage” is.

“Adultery” is putting something into a substance, which “something” isn’t supposed to be in there. That act impurifies and contaminates the substances. It’s where we get our word “adulterated”. If you put vinaigrette into milk, you’ve adulterated that milk. That vinaigrette isn’t supposed to be in there. You’ve made the milk impure. You’ve contaminated it. It’s good for nothing except to induce vomiting.

When you “marry” two things, you put them together such that two become one, each is indistinguishable from the other, they are inseparable, and you can no longer separate them. Or, at least you cannot separate them without ruining or destroying them both. When you “marry” a half-gallon of milk with another half-gallon of milk by pouring them both into a gallon container, you now cannot separate them. They’ve become one entity, one substance, one thing. The milk from the first half gallon is indistinguishable from the milk from the second. Two became one.

Now when we put this into the context of marriage, we see how insidious adultery is. Adultery ruins all 6 of the purposes for marriage outlined in the first section.

  1. Instead of glorifying God, a sordid affair celebrates and glorifies sin. The marriage becomes the laughingstock of the town. Worse, it implicates and inspires others to commit adultery.
  2. Instead of being a vehicle of sanctification for the man and wife, the marriage is now a source of anger, bitterness, distrust, jealousy, and other signets of perdition.
  3. The hedge of spiritual protection is broken down as sexual immorality becomes a reality.
  4. The family is placed in jeopardy, socially, emotionally, economically, and spiritually.
  5. The children are much less likely to become Godly, and are more likely to engage in promiscuity themselves.
  6. Instead of being a safe harbor from the world, the marriage becomes a daily battleground.

It also taints all 4 conditions for marriage listed in the second section.

  1. The mental agreement about their mutual intentions to be joined together inseparably is jeopardized and placed in doubt.
  2. The Heart Trust needed for mutual engagement is transformed into fraud and intransigence. It rejects God from the relationship and prevents Him from finishing the work and mystery of sanctification.
  3. Their public acknowledgment to the world becomes as meaningless as their lack of commitment.
  4. The physical, emotional, and sexual consummation in the form of sexual congress becomes permanently defiled, and thus, wholly unable to inspire joy and humility.

Notes on Terminology

  1. Unmarried individuals cannot commit adultery. They fornicate, but they don’t commit adultery.
  2. Only married women can be adulterated.
  3. Unmarried women having sex with unmarried men are fornicating.
  4. An unmarried woman having sex with a married man is fornicating.
  5. A married woman having sex with a man she is not married to commits adultery.
  6. Men cannot be adulterated. Only women have things put into them during the act of intercourse (naturally, anyway).
  7. A man can commit adultery but only by having sex with a woman married to another man.
  8. A man fornicates with a never married woman.

Epilogue

Most of the time, all these arguments about fornication, marriage, adultery, and remarriage arise when someone wants to remarry, because humans in this situation will devote every ounce of their mental effort to come up with rationalizations to access sex.

The hardline Christian churches say, “OK, legal divorce, but in the eyes of the Church, you’re still married. You’re not free to remarry. You’re not free to have sex with others. If you remarry legally, you’re not married in the eyes of the church. If you have sex with anyone else, you’re fornicating or committing adultery and you cannot do that.” The Catholic church has been known to be excruciatingly exacting about this, dishing out excommunications as a consequence of divorce. But I’m not sure if this still happens as frequently as it used to.

The less ascetic Christian churches recognize that it’s better for divorcees to remarry than for them to live the rest of their lives in rotating polygyny or serial polyandry. So they will allow remarriage. The Orthodox church allows remarriage twice.

The more liberal churches don’t set much of any guidelines about divorce and remarriage, or at least they don’t enforce them.

But regardless of how any particular church might deal with it, if any woman, once married to one man, then has sex with another man, even within a second marriage, it is technically adultery. Jesus said this very specifically, and there is no way around it. (See Matthew 5:31-32, 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Romans 7:2-3.)

This entry was posted in Adultery and Fornication, Boundaries, Child Development, Courtship and Marriage, Divorce, Forgiveness, Glory, Introspection, Models of Failure, Mysticism, Purpose, Relationships, Sanctification & Defilement, Trust. Bookmark the permalink.

45 Responses to What constitutes Adultery?

  1. cameron232 says:

    Excellent deti.

    The Catholic church, particuarly in America, is now loosey goosey with declarations of nullity, which were intended for exceptional situations where an element like consent wasn’t present, e.g. a physically coerced marriage. The mentality now is “they didn’t understand what they were consenting to.” Fine. Do your freakin’ job and TEACH bishops and priests. By the way, a declaration of nullify only carries moral not absolute certitude.

    I believe the Orthodox consider the remarried couple to be living in a state of constant penance since they are technically committing adultery. Hope that’s right, Nova and Scott.

    Like

    • cameron232 says:

      I hope this comment doesn’t distract from the OP which wasn’t about the technicalities of Orthodox and Catholic marriage.

      Like

    • Lastmod says:

      Marriage does not equal sex. There are plenty of examples in the bible when marriage was used as a means and a tool to get ahead. Someone married someone to escape death or torture. Did it to trick someone else into doing something. Marriage is tons more than sex.

      Also, when you marry in the modern world, it’s a legal matter. Nothing says “sex” in the formal documents filed with the local registry. It’s done for tax reasons for the most part.

      Part of the reason why marriages are failing today is because “Women bad, evil… Must give me sex when I want”, and “I can f*ck whoever because I’ll twist a few bible verses and make it okay.”

      Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Marriage is not sex but sex and children, the natural result of sex, and the most fundamental aspect of sex. While sex on demand for hubby isn’t all marriage consists of, the denial of sex is fundamentally hurtful, as well as frustrating to a husband. Not a good way to cultivate marital love.

        The Christian manosphere does not with one voice claim that fornication is good for men. Deep Strength does not say this. What the Christian manosphere says is that men and women have different biology and psychology and that fornication has overlapping but unequal negative consequences for the two sexes. Feminism says this is not fair.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        I will say lastmod that you’re not all wrong by any means. A lot of the congregation didn’t care about Tim. Even the priest didn’t check on him after we left the area. I still feel guilty for failing him (been dead for 10 years – his parents and brother passed long ago). I know I will answer to God for failing Tim. Tim’s last name meant “truth.” A sign from God to me it seems.

        Like

  2. Jack says:

    “Sex is the only thing I can do with Mrs. deti that I am not permitted to do with anyone else. So if she evades or refuses having sex with me, it demonstrates that the one thing I get from her that I cannot get from anyone else has been taken away from me and I’ve been deprived of it. If in my marriage, I cannot get even sex from my wife, even the one thing I cannot get anywhere else, then I can rightfully consider myself to be no longer married.”

    In a sense, this argument supports the notion that Sex = Marriage, or at least, No Sex = No Marriage.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      Jack — The quote you highlighted more accurately points to No Sex = No Marriage. Deti’s point is that all the elements have to be present together for marriage to exist and the removal of one of the elements changes the relationship into something that is not marriage. Another way of thinking about it is that if Sex = Marriage, then female virgins can never be guilty of fornication, which we know is not the case. They could only be guilty of adultery.

      Like

    • lastholdout says:

      Let’s put it in deeper biblical context (from Desire at the Door: Uncovering the Biblical Marriage Foundations in the Postmodern Era):

      A healthy Christian marriage is a foreshadowing that provides insight into the closeness and satisfaction of our eternal relationship with the God of the universe. Because of its spiritual nature, this connection is beyond words. God Himself—the spiritual “I AM” — views husband and wife as one. This is why Paul uses the parallel of husband and wife to Christ and the Church in Ephesians 5. We know becoming one is not becoming one biologically via a physical attachment. Just as being “born again” refers to our spiritual state, so does “becoming one.”

      Jesus, in addressing the Pharisees’ question on divorce, speaks to becoming one flesh, referring to the man “cleaving” to his wife, and twice He speaks to the two becoming one flesh: “‘For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh.’ So then they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder”(Mark 10:7–9).

      This is how God designed the marriage relationship. Becoming one flesh happens spiritually — through His power. “God has joined together” is explicit in what happens but does not fully explain what it means. Still, in Mark 10:8, Jesus talked about the two becoming one flesh. At some point, we go from being two people to becoming one. God does something to change our status before Him and each other.

      God recognizes our joining as one happens through the act of sex. In 1 Corinthians 6:16, Paul uses the example of the unmarried to make the point that sexual intercourse is how we become one: “What? Do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For ‘the two,’ He says, ‘shall become one flesh.’”

      Paul’s use of the unmarried as an illustration is no accident. There is nothing else in the marriage relationship that makes a man and woman “become one” but their sexual activity. Not the vows on their wedding day, nor sharing the same home. Nothing else makes them one.

      I agree, No Sex = No Marriage.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sharkly says:

        The Bible doesn’t say that they become one spirit, it says they become one flesh. Marriage is a fleshly union that does not survive the death of the flesh.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Lastmod says:

    “That should give us an idea of how much sex is identified with marriage, as I described above. They’re looking for God, and they don’t even know it.”

    Way, way way over the line……….. that is a HUGE stretch. Most men coming to the sphere are not looking for God, and do not want God.

    The rest of it? Basically. A Man can cheat, have tons of premartial sex, and is blameless. Justification for your own past behavior(s). Damning anyone else.
    If you are a man who is not having sex, then something is wrong with you.

    Like

    • Jack says:

      “Way, way way over the line……….. that is a HUGE stretch. Most men coming to the sphere are not looking for God, and do not want God.”

      You are confusing married (or previously married) men who expect(ed) sex from their wives (i.e. marital sanctification) with men who aspire to be PUAs. I’ll agree that PUAs are looking for poon, not God. But even so, isn’t it quite interesting that many past PUAs have “found God”?

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Maybe I am. Plenty of addicts found God, plenty of former CC riders have found god. The odd thing is, fornicators (men) are forgiven, women are too, depending how hot she is, and addicts are never forgiven, even in the church. Maybe God forgives…. but that means nothing if you can’t get a job because of your drug / alcohol past. Hence some of the chronic homeless problems we have…. (not all, but more than few for sure). But don’t worry, in heaven you will be rewarded; in the meantime, starve to death and live on the street! You deserved this!

        Just about ten years here in this corner of the internet as practicing, and now…. not. It seems to boil down to that men can do what they want, because there is this man named “Jesus” who forgives you….. so it doesn’t matter what you do.

        Then, I discovered its pretty much “some men” can do what they want, everyone else has to do the “do as I say, not as I do” way.

        Just saying.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Lastmod, my wife has a friend Marie who met her husband at narcotics anonymous. She was a single mom. They married and are accepted by their evangelical church along with their now 7 kids. He works as a restauraunt manager.

        We knew a hepC positive former biker and addict named Tim who had naked lady tattoos all over his body. We took him (he was partially disabled) to church every week and invited him to our house. Not that he asked, but I wouldn’t have let him babysit our young children. Some of this is just him being a man I didn’t know that well. Did his former addiction and lifestyle contribute to me not leaving my kids with him? I can’t say for sure it didn’t.

        One of the themes is there are earthly consequences to past issues regardless of forgiveness. There’s a balance between prudence on one hand and charity on the other. The common case that comes up is that men take considerable risk in marrying now and a woman’s past can be considered. My wife’s friend Marie did lapse back into drug use after marriage. Past can indicate risk.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        Cameron. I wouldn’t leave children with a strange man or woman that I had just met or knew for a short spell. I spent twelve years in a church every Sunday, and involved. I was denied leadership because of my past.

        Meanwhile, the bandleader who deflowered every girl in the Corps is “a great guy and god is working on him in his time.”

        Was not allowed to be around children in the church because of my former addicted status, yet when a divorced dad in the rehab program starts dating one of the women in the church, he’s suddenly “deemed okay” to be around kids.

        It’s pretty much who gets to channel and speak for God in the church… whatever denomination or tradition. Even after all my work with the Scouts proving my “fruit of the spirit” before men and in secret… I still wasn’t qualified to work with, or be around children… or lead anything. In fact, when I was employed by The Salvation Army all I was good enough for was to be a janitor, which I did better than anyone else mind you….

        They had me believe… Christians… that in the next life I was going to have all these supposed “treasures” and that I should be content with what God gave me. When I went out and actually tried to better myself, I found that I did have some skills for better work. Not according to those “biblical leaders” though.

        The Christian faith helped keep my shredded ego in shreds, telling me I was always an addict… “Don’t ever, ever relapse… and God will reward you in heaven… but for now, just be content with a minimum wage job, while at the same time playing doublespeak, “Men have to step up and lead, take initiative……”

        What they really mean is “only men we deem in the club can do this.”

        Hence I left. If I listened to all these experts (some in the sphere) I would still be mopping floors and scolded for “not being a real man and having provision.”

        In this marriage thing, you can try to go ahead and “argue before the courts” that No Sex = No Marriage. You can’t? Why? Pretty straighforward right? Even a better way, go argue in your local church for this… See how far that goes!

        Maybe… just maybe… men (like 99% in here) who can’t live ten seconds without it should look into their own lives about how much they focus on sex instead of “God’s Word.”

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Sorry to hear about your experience lastmod. Wish I could say it was unique to that congregation or to the Army, but we know that’s not true.

        FWIW, I think marriage lasts until one spouse dies. They can separate for either adultery or severe abuse but no remarriage while your spouse lives. Imagine a world where BOTH men and women believed thus.

        I’m not sure if Brian, my wife’s friends’ hubby who was an addict, was allowed around church kids.

        Hows the job going?

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        I’m not mad at human nature…. even in the church. People are not perfect. What got me is this “holy” talk while allowing and excusing some, while telling others the “grave sin” they are in. When I left / quit attending…. no one called or dropped by or asked “why” or “what happened” and that too is human nature. People are busy… and besides, I was a former drug addict who was “just a janitor.” I wasn’t needed really.

        Work is going well. I had a co-worker die very suddenly on January 4th. He was a manager of one of the properties. Dropped dead of a heart attack. Died at his desk. The staff was freaking out. I had to go and be the adult and handle this with the police and paramedics. He was younger than me. Single, never married. His younger brother lives back in Texas. Very sad. He was a good manager, kept to himself… when I made small talk, he didn’t like talking back with me… so I assumed he was just a deep loner. Left it at that. Kinda wish I knew him a little better. He had been with the firm since 1999. I have to run his property assignments until I hire a replacement. I would send one of my other managers, but they are swamped, and I have to set the example of taking on the work and “owning” the situation.

        Traffic here is terrible. Gruesome. Criminal. Otherwise okay I guess. It was a dismal Christmas. The whole country has somewhere to go, and well… I just stayed home.

        Going to take a class on British Property Law and Property Management. I think I may look into moving there. There is nothing keeping me here, and I do speak Welsh, and I fit in more with the culture there when it comes to music, fashion, design…… We’ll see. Thank you for asking.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Wales would be a cool place to live. Snowdonia.

        Like

  4. Rock Kitaro says:

    Among those scriptures you mentioned at the end there, I really like 1 Corinthians 7 1-15. It really sums up all the logic and wisdom about sex and marriage, mainly that God understands us and our human nature. Marriage is a sanctuary for our sexual impulses. Without these guidelines, these instructions… we have what we see today: children born out of wedlock, a lack of fathers, the breakdown of families, and a call for more government to be our providers, which in turn means we have to give up more in return. So stupid…

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Lastmod says:

    Cameron:

    “The Christian manosphere does not with one voice claim that fornication is good for men. Deep Strength does not say this. What the Christian manosphere says is that men and women have different biology and psychology and that fornication has overlapping but unequal negative consequences for the two sexes. Feminism says this is not fair.”

    I was told not too long ago here that as a man, if you don’t get sex, you will die.

    Never have heard any negative consequences for men who get sex in the sphere. In fact, its ‘wink, wink… nudge, nudge’….. “Oh, if you are a christian you are supposed to wait, but god understands your urges and the gal should have not been teasing me…. dressed this way around me….. been flirting with me…. she knew what she was doing.”

    Various other excuses…… who knows. When I discovered this, and saw it blatantly in my own faith / tradition and in the ‘sphere, I realized I would never be part of the club…. “Well, Jesus loves you, but He loves some more than others.”

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      You definitely won’t die. I think virgin men are a higher category in the Church but I know, especially in our sex obsessed culture, this is not easy. The fact you don’t use porn shows a gift IMO. Huge numbers of men, married and not married, Christian and secular, can’t seem to overcome the very adolescent sin of fapping to porn. Catholic, evangelical, Mormon whatever. Tons of them struggle with that. And look at Josh Duggar for crying out loud.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lexet Blog says:

        The argument over men not having sex = dying is just dumb. Reference OT and several of the apostles.

        The core of the OP is also an excuse for men to cheat. Many men in the manosphere spend hours justifying fornication or adultery as not applying to men so as to give themselves license to sin. They are on a warpath to hell.

        Liked by 3 people

    • Sharkly says:

      Lastmod,
      You didn’t hear me glorify fornication. And you probably did hear me piss-off some fornicators by telling them to quit glorying in their shameful wickedness and repent of it. One satanic fool even billed fornication as a psychological development milestone. However it didn’t cure his own obvious insecurities. They often sounded like they miss their “glory days” of sin. Like God is just a mistake they made that ended all their fun. Obviously they don’t really know God if they still aren’t ashamed of their past or present sins against Him. The churches are a corrupt prostitute, not the bride of Christ. Believe the Bible, ignore all the unbelieving idiots who claim Christ’s name. Some here don’t even believe God created the world how He said, or believe the miracles that are recorded in the Bible. You can’t listen to faithless unbelievers like that, they certainly don’t represent Christ, nor are they even “believers”.

      “Bandleader who deflowered every girl in the Corps is “a great guy and god is working on him in his time.”

      I heard pretty much the exact same thing at one church, and that I must just be envious for questioning why he was still the leader.

      God isn’t found inside church buildings, in fact that’s where His name gets most abused by people using Him to excuse all their selfish wickedness. They’re lost. They work lawlessness in His name. You don’t have to join any club or fit in here on earth to be part of God’s heavenly family. Those who fit in with the world are at enmity with God.

      John 17:14
      I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Joe2 says:

        “Bandleader who deflowered every girl in the Corps is “a great guy and god is working on him in his time.” I heard pretty much the exact same thing at one church, and that I must just be envious for questioning why he was still the leader.”

        I experienced something similar, too. Except, I questioned the behavior of the girls in the church. What’s wrong with them? They put on a good show Sunday morning, but that’s all it is — a show. The pastor said that he was troubled by them saying one thing and doing something else. Their behavior was not in accord with their words. He did nothing… except to imply that I’m a jealous suitor.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Jack says:

        “Bandleader who deflowered every girl in the Corps is “a great guy and god is working on him in his time.” I heard pretty much the exact same thing at one church, and that I must just be envious for questioning why he was still the leader.”

        “I experienced something similar, too. Except, I questioned the behavior of the girls in the church. What’s wrong with them? They put on a good show Sunday morning, but that’s all it is — a show. The pastor said that he was troubled by them saying one thing and doing something else. Their behavior was not in accord with their words. He did nothing… except to imply that I’m a jealous suitor.”

        Yes, it is better to question the offending girls’ behavior, rather than the man’s, but most people are too soft and would rather view the females as an innocent party.

        That’s a pretty rotten response from that pastor because he’s scrutinizing and shaming the informant/inquisitor, rather than dealing with the problem. When sexual relationships between singles in the church become known, the pastor should confront them, confirm that the rumors are true, and then tell them to marry or else leave the church. If pastors took this approach, there would be more marriages and less fornication within the church. This would also send a signal to others about the consequences of fornication within the church.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Sharkly says:

        As I’ve mentioned before, most of these lawless apostate churches just try to shift blame onto the person who points out their foul practices. Their childish apologetics are no further advanced than, “he who smelt it, dealt it.”

        Liked by 1 person

  6. joshua4355 says:

    Excellent article. And yes, there are different rules that apply to men than apply to women. Same is true for married men versus unmarried men, or for men with children versus men without children.

    “Wives — if you’re not having sex with your husbands whenever they reasonably ask or expect it, then you are cheating on them!

    A small request for better wording here. 1 Corinthians 7:1-5 does not include any limitation, such as whether the requests are with a “reasonable” frequency.

    I recognize that when thedeti wrote “whenever [the husbands] reasonably ask”, he was likely meaning that the husband is asking when they are alone versus in public and not during her period of uncleanness. But many women would look at that “reasonably ask” and see within it an excuse to offer all manner of reasons why her “mean” / “selfish” / “SINFUL” husband should not be expecting sex today.

    Unless her reason for refusing sex is given in the Bible, such her time of uncleanness, then a refusal of sex to her husband is sin. If he desires sex when not in private, then immediately take him home and fulfill his desires, which also strengthens the marriage and binds his heart to his wife.

    Thedeti’s conclusion that a denying wife is sexually sinning / cheating on her husband is very important, and should be regularly taught in our “churches”.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      I agree that “I have a “headache” is a common excuse to get out of it. Sometimes women do have health and medical issues. After giving birth they can be pretty torn up. I’ve heard of men pushing it and tearing stitches. TMI but one time, mine wasn’t real enthusiastic and it turned out she had really bad diarrhea. I was kind of a jerk about it and felt bad afterward. (It triggered feelings of rejection in me.)

      I realize these examples aren’t really what deti is talking about.

      Like

  7. cameron232 says:

    I guess a general comment. I would use the term “defrauded” to describe (persistent, unreasonable) sex denial. Not “adultery,” and the marriage is still real.

    Liked by 4 people

    • I agree. Defrauding is the correct term. It’s not adultery, and it’s not grounds for divorce either. Neither defrauding, adultery, or any other thing nullifies the vows you took before God, even if the other spouse is not upholding theirs. The goal of every Christian should be to obey God which means upholding what you said you would do despite poor circumstances. This allows God to influence things in a godly direction.

      I suppose one may separate if it’s absolutely unbearable, though no divorce or remarriage but only reconciliation according to 1 Corinthians 7.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Sharkly says:

        Yes, it is a sexual fraud, a defrauding, or being immoral sexually. So refusing to have sex with your mate is sexual immorality.

        D.S., The rest of your comment is just crazy talk that ignores God’s Noahic law which applies for all time to all people. The OT states that adulteresses are to be put to death, and this also was required in the Jewish “Ten Commandments”. Death nullifies the marriage. You can’t refuse to carry out God’s law and then ask how God wants you to handle it. God wanted the adulteress put to death, not some public display of cuckoldry carried out in His holy name! If the death penalty is not an option, at least acknowledge that the marriage is over by all rights and divorce her.

        Deuteronomy 24:1
        When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, 2 and if she goes and becomes another man’s wife, 3 and the latter husband dislikes her and writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies, who took her to be his wife, 4 then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring guilt upon the land which the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance.

        You become one flesh when you first consummate your marriage. According to the Old Testament, if you divorce your wife and she marries another man, even if he dies, she cannot marry you again because that is the abomination of incest to marry your own flesh and blood. So too, if a wife has committed adultery and become one flesh with another man, it is an abomination, as the image of God, for her husband to go groveling back to her for that dude’s sloppy seconds. As an image of God, have some respect for your own dignity! And don’t do the abominable, and bring guilt upon your land. Either have her put to death, or if you can’t do that divorce her as your second best option. That is what the Bible recommends:

        Matthew 1:18
        Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

        Did you catch that? Joseph (Mary’s husband according to Jewish betrothal) being just, wanted to divorce Mary for being with another man even though he was also very merciful and wanted to spare her a death by stoning. God intervened in a dream to convince Joseph that she was actually still a virgin and to not fear to take her as his wife. So, the just thing to do, if you don’t want to have the adulteress put to death, or can’t, is to put her away, meaning to divorce her. Don’t ignore the Bible and God’s laws in order to recommend lawless cuckoldry to others, which is such an abomination that it even defiles the very land you live on.

        Hebrews 13:4
        Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterers.

        The marriage bed is to be undefiled, not a bed of abominable cuckoldry! Being a cuck ain’t godly, it’s abominable! Don’t do it! At least show yourself some respect for being the image and glory of God (1 Corinthians 11:7), even if you might otherwise have no self-respect and want to wallow your life away in that abominable cuckold relationship. Don’t give license to adultery. Divorce the whore and keep your bed undefiled. You’ll regret it if you don’t. And don’t believe some cuck who is speaking from ego-defense. Living a life of abominable cuckoldry will be quite regrettable. And don’t teach your kids to be a cuck by your own gynogroveling.

        Liked by 1 person

      • @ Sharkly,

        “The marriage bed is to be undefiled, not a bed of abominable cuckoldry! Being a cuck ain’t godly, it’s abominable! Don’t do it! At least show yourself some respect for being the image and glory of God (1 Corinthians 11:7), even if you might otherwise have no self-respect and want to wallow your life away in that abominable cuckold relationship. Don’t give license to adultery. Divorce the whore and keep your bed undefiled. You’ll regret it if you don’t. And don’t believe some cuck who is speaking from ego-defense. Living a life of abominable cuckoldry will be quite regrettable. And don’t teach your kids to be a cuck by your own gynogroveling.”

        I guess we shouldn’t emulate God then, like it says in Matthew 5. The same God who divorced Israel and put away Judah for adultery… but then brought back Judah from Babylon and reconciled Israel to Himself with Jesus.

        I guess God is a cuck for wanting grace and mercy if there’s repentance.

        The stance I agree with is what the early Church did, which is:

        — If your wife commits adultery you should put her out (such as separate according to 1 Corinthians 7).
        — If she repents you should accept her back.
        — There is no remarriage only reconciliation (again, per 1 Corinthians 7), and this agrees with Jesus’ statement on that, “what God has put together let no man separate”.
        — Only death breaks the marriage bond.

        Like

      • Sharkly says:

        To all: Disregard my comment most directly above this one. I’ll have to think that over some more, considering the story of Hosea, and Ephesians 5 where the husband is analogous to the “savior” of the wife. For now follow your own convictions. But beware the way of the adulterous woman is to, take it in, then wipe her opening, and proclaim she has done nothing wrong. (Proverbs 30:20) True repentance is usually far from them.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Lastmod says:

      Well… You Christian men here live exhausting lives. All day moving sixteen tons, coming home, ordering your wife around, critiquing everything she does, claims she is a helper…. but her helping seems to only cause rebuke.

      Exhausting.

      Is the sex really THAT good for this exhausting life? Kids. Financial problems… Wait, no….. You guys had your life mission figured out at two… You were going to be a high level engineer or something, money is not a problem in your households. Let your guard down for ONE second… and POW…. your wife will be back at square one as Eve in the garden listening to the serpent.

      Exhausting.

      People criticize Pastor Matt Chandler (as they should) for his faux GenX masculinity, but he did say many years ago, “a man needs to go to bed every night exhausted or he is not leading / folllowing God / being a good father / husband.”

      Between work, coming home, and decoding your wife daily, kids that she is supposed to raise, but I am sure she is doing it “wrong” for the most part….. by statements of how terrible they are, married women must be doing that wrong too by default…… household work most of you are probably going to bed exhausted every night. Was Chandler correct on this???

      The only thing I really want at my age IS a good night sleep… and now you want sex from a shrew, harpy, or someone you will begrudge or gently threaten No Sex = No Marriage and expect her to perform like Traci Lords (1980’s). Maybe you guys should perhaps think about your wife as an actual helper instead of an enemy, or someone to “conform” and control.

      You can insult be back if you would like, it won’t bother me. I know I am hopeless in these matters, and really always was (if I really am honest with myself 🙂 ).

      Like

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Well, there you go. All the men in the sphere whose advice about women and relationships that doesn’t work, in reality did you a great service. They spared you decades of exhaustion and headache that comes with having to deal with a woman. It would seem you owe them a debt of gratitude.

        Like

      • info says:

        Then don’t deal with women. Be single for life. Because what is the point of wasting time and effort for something that isn’t for you?

        Serve God and keep His commandments. And make sure that your deeds commend you to God after Salvation which has already been done.

        There is still the Bema seat judgment seat of Christ where rewards will be handed out.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Well…… I didn’t want to be single. The hand was forced on me. I had to accept in the end, there wasn’t a choice. When I was practicing, I was told, “Oh… You have the gift of celibacy, and remember there is no marriage in heaven! Jesus wasn’t married, and neither was Paul!”

        The problem at that time stemmed and threaded to this:

        Well, Okay…. but I strive for the life of Paul, and “You don’t run things around here! You have the gift of celibacy and you are supposed to glorify god with that.” Let any man just TRY to be Jesus, and there was no way I could be that… even if I tried for that… I would be lectured that, “you sin so many times a day without even knowing it. You cannot be Jesus. He forgives sin and never sinned… You are not him.”

        So just sit, listen to the “deemed leaders” and be frustrated. EVeryone else seemed to be given all these amazing gifts….. including better intelligence…… and I had my gift “told” to me. I realized more and more, if I had been raised a practicing Christian and married at 20, with an amazing provision lined up…. I would have been accepted as a leader, or if I arrived later and was blessed with decent looks, I would be assumed to be intelligent, confident, a leader, and would be assumed to have all the other gifts, as well as be allowed to move into the top 20%.

        I would try to explain that I didn’t want to be celibate, and I was waved off. “Doesn’t matter what you want, god decided this for you.” My confusion was confounded when the preacher would tell men to ask women out, be a man, quit being a wuss….. “Women don’t bite.”

        I had allowed indirectly other men to deem the gift I had. I was stuck. I then just realized it was too late on that front.

        I can’t be angry about it anymore. I am more indifferent to it at this point…. I mean, it still “hurts” badly, but it won’t send me back to drink or drugs. Nor will it make me want to off myself……. but it does set me apart from Christians.

        I just wanted a marriage like what my parents had, and learning here over the years, their marriage was wrong, or not correct, or done properly by the men here, or red pill christianity / masculinity. Really tough standards you set. I can see why many men who could…. don’t even bother.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Joe2 says:

        “Well…… I didn’t want to be single. The hand was forced on me. I had to accept in the end, there wasn’t a choice.”

        Whoever told you that you have the gift of celibacy was wrong. The gift of celibacy is the special ability to voluntarily remain single and chaste without having second thoughts for the purpose of serving the Lord without distraction. The fact that you didn’t want to remain single and wanted to be married is proof that you don’t have the gift of celibacy.

        Liked by 1 person

      • info says:

        @Lastmod
        Something to pray about. Because this is beyond your control. Keep on petitioning God. And whatever happens may it happen.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        No kidding. You think? This is, I guess, where some “resentment” towards men again comes from deep within me. At my age now, at least… at least women were telling me the truth by their actions over the decades. Not ignoring or forgetting that these actions HURT…….. HURT badly as a young man and young adult.

        But I was straight up lied to by men. For decades. That angers me. Also, lied to at an older age, by men my age, and older. Still playing high school at 37, 39, 40, or 43, with fellow men who they percieve are better than them. So much for brotherhood.

        Even in work. I expect… expect….. did I say expect many women to miss the mark? Make excuses. Blame everything for a reason for not doing a task properly? Yes. Do I think many were given the position they have in my firm because of their gender? Yes.

        What still baffles me in my firm is my fellow men. Doing the bare minimum. Using the “that is not in my job description” excuse. (That is what I expect a female subordinate to say, and they do.) Yet, these men are better looking than me, even better than I ever could have been in my prime. These men are popular with women. They talk all tough. Many of my subordinates even speak and talk down to me. It’s cool. Go ahead. I conduct your review, and the quality of the work you do shows your Ego, and self-importance. Arrogance. Everything is a joke, and funny.

        In the grand scheme of things right now. I can do without you and do your job and mine with ease. You are expendable. Why? Am I some amazing leader? A genius? Awesome masculine authority? Great charisma and comeliness?

        No. None of that.

        I have wisdom because I have dealt with men like this since I was in middle school when they were boys. I have deep humility. I know where I was at, and I know what I want out of my career. I have a “do whatever it takes” attitude for my customers. I also have been beaten so bad by most men in everything. I have nothing to lose with them. They can only argue their looks, and the better college they attended……… and bedding women. With a job proper… and getting it done on this level, I can run circles around them now.

        So okay, they “won” the Game. They got women naked! They date! They have Game, Dread Game, Inner Game, LTR Game, Frame, Day Game, Night Game, Group Game, and they only date nines and tens.

        My portfolio continues to grow in this tight commercial and dropping market. And yet…… I am a genetically beta cuck who pedestalizes women…….

        Like

  8. feeriker says:

    “When I left / quit attending…. no one called or dropped by or asked “why” or “what happened” and that too is human nature. People are busy…”

    No doubt they were “busy,” but that’s not the reason why they didn’t reach out to you. They didn’t reach out to you because they didn’t want to hear the ugly truth of why you left them. They no doubt knew, at least on a visceral level, that they had wronged you, but didn’t have the fortitude to honestly admit it. Worse still, admitting that they had treated you badly would have required them to actually try to atone for it. That’s a no-go territory for churchians. I’ve only ever had one pastor reach out to me after I left his church, and I’m pretty sure that he regretted doing so after I told him why I left. (In summary, he was more fixated on his “church” being a flag-waving Republican Party politicial club and USO Auxiliary than a Christian church dedicated to worshiping Jesus.)

    “Churches” generally don’t care when they lose members because they’re mostly not true New Testament churches. They’re non-profit businesses that have customers (such people are fungible), not family members in the Body of Christ. Family members are people you pursue and try to win back into the fold because you love them and care for them like family. Customers can be replaced.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. doclove says:

    This was a well written article. There are some problems with it though, and I will try to correct these problems. Both married men and married women can commit adultery if they have sex with anyone except their spouses. If a single man or woman has sex with a married person who is not their spouse then it is adultery too, especially if they know that the spouse is married. It is usually worse if a woman cheats or commits adultry because women are significantly more likely to degrade or destroy relationships when cheating or commiting adultery than men.

    Like

  10. Pingback: Rights and Responsibilities within Marriage | Σ Frame

  11. Pingback: Infidelity is anything short of fidelity. | Σ Frame

  12. Pingback: Denying sex to one’s spouse is porneia. | Σ Frame

  13. Pingback: Sexual Authority and Sanctification | Σ Frame

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s