Knowing how things are supposed to be

Knowing the authentic is how all counterfeits are identified.

Readership: Men; Christian Men;
Author’s Note: This post is based on an email conversation between RedPillApostle (black text) and Jack (blue text). Content organized by Jack.
Length: 2,300 words
Reading Time: 7.5 minutes

Our Search for the Authentic

The reason most of us men are here can be summed up this way.

Discontentedness – Envying what you don’t have and it’s corollary, not being thankful for what you do have.  This leads to bitterness.  Harboring bitterness, along with making people unattractive to others, ends up causing strife because that is what sin does every time.  This is feminism.

Contentment – Being grateful for what you have without feeling you deserve different.  This causes joy, and a genuinely joyous person is attractive to others.  This is why there is little humor or good natured action on the left, including feminism.  The entirety of it is built on being discontent and envious.

Regarding Discontentedness vs. Contentment, Jack will admit that this was one of his original motivations for blogging.  He couldn’t understand why contentment (in marriage, but life in general too) was so elusive and difficult to apprehend.

Jack grew up in the church, and read a lot of Christian literature in his formative years, so in his head (and this is a critical point) he always had a pretty good idea about how it’s “supposed to be”, but he had a few BIG problems…

  1. His parents had a very cold relationship and they divorced later on after he left home, so he didn’t have the proper framework of reality to build a solid psychological structure of how “it’s supposed to be”. Some people (like Scott and RedPillApostle) grew up in a good, functional family, so they have that, which is quite a lot actually.  It’s enough to power through all the junk doctrine, pop psychology, and the education racket.  But for those of us coming from broken/divorced homes, it’s a desert landscape.
  2. When you look around the culture, and even within the church, things are nothing like how “it’s supposed to be”, so there was/is no working model to improve upon, nor even something to start with.
  3. The information about love, dating, marriage, and family that was available to us back in the 80s and 90s was so Blue Pilled and gynocentric, especially Christian based sources.  (Jack believes he would have gotten farther along in certain key areas if he didn’t grow up in a dysfunctional Christian family.)
  4. There was no information about how to go from (1) or (2) to how “it’s supposed to be”.  Red Pill literature addresses this somewhat, but most of it is secular.  Other than Dalrock (who is now retired from blogging), Christianity and Masculinity, and RPChristians, there is not much other regular content being produced for the Christian man who is seeking marriage.  (We hope we can fill in this deficit a little more.  But it’s more or less a frontier, so progress is hard won and incrementally slow.) There is a real market for Red Pill Christian YouTube videos and podcasts.  (Oscar and Jack tried doing that on BitChute, but it didn’t take off for some reason.)

In 2017, Jack found Dalrock, Donal Graeme, Illimitable Men, Roissy, Rollo, Zippy Catholic, et al., and then things started to make sense for him.  This blog took a different turn after that.

All of this points to the following.

  1. Knowing how things are “supposed to be” helps us gauge reality and gives us an idea about what needs to be done.
  2. Figuring out all the lies we have swallowed over the years helps greatly.
  3. Understanding the situation and readjusting one’s mindset and expectations helps immensely.
  4. Discussing it with other men helps.
  5. Writing blog posts/comments about it helps refine our understanding of the complexities.
  6. Knowing that you’re not all alone helps.

Men need other men in this regard.

For those of us in the Christian Manosphere, numbers (1) and (4) of the above list are the most critical.  Numbers (2-5) follow after (1), while (5) and (6) are part of (4).  We’ll address these two main points (1 and 4) in the following sections.

Knowing how things are supposed to be

Knowing the authentic item is how all counterfeit currency is identified.  Those who are experts in identifying counterfeit currency will tell you that they spend just as much time studying genuine currency as they do in spotting fakes.  There are tens of thousands of variations of counterfeiting to learn and if there were millions it wouldn’t matter.  You only have to know one true item to spot all the counterfeits – the real one.  Any deviation from authenticity marks the fake.

This works in our relationships too. One of the challenges in fixing a marriage is determining what is there that shouldn’t be, and what isn’t there that should be. Having an idea of where it needs to end up is necessary for one to know what needs to be “fixed”.  Knowing how things are supposed to be is a good first step.

It has taken me a year of biblical study, reading the writings of men who have gone before me in biblical study and whose experience is valuable to know to start to understand what biblical marriage looks like.  While I am still learning and contemplating my own marriage, I have a much better idea of those principles that make for a biblical wife, biblical husband and biblical marriage.  Identifying the deviations becomes easier over time.

The Way things are Supposed to be

Here is what biblical marriage looks like in principle, while in practice it will be unique to each individual man and his preferences.  Read 1 Peter 3.  The husband is the Head. The husband should love his wife, dwelling with her in knowledge and understanding. The wife submits in all things.  She submits to the point of emulating Sarah who sinned in following Abraham’s instructions.  So with a husband who is not asking his wife to sin, all things beyond that are on the table for her to do.  This means sexually to please him, how she dresses to please him, the fitness level she keeps, her overall appearance, how she performs her work in and out of the house, how she administers discipline to the children, how the children are raised, budgeting and saving money, how many children to have, basically the husband takes over for the father except that he has rights to her body the father never had.

We have drifted so far from this biblical take on marriage that it would be laughable to the vast majority of women in the west.  When you mention restoring a male world view, it starts with realizing what I just wrote about marriage is true.  “Happy king.  Happy kingdom.”  Dissenters get Dread gamed or banished.

Think of how a man would view the world if he ruled his own kingdom.  Yes, you are in charge.  Yes, she signed up to do that for you.  Yes, she is your responsibility and all the sacrifice this entails, which is why she gratefully obeys you.

I once took a Heartisian “women love dominant men that tell women what to do” concept, translated it into churchian language for a site that is predominantly egalitarian in philosophy, and a woman replied that she really appreciated that about her husband, especially in the bedroom.  The RP take on female nature is true.  Never doubt it because at the core of every woman is God’s purpose as a helpmeet, and helpmeets get told what to do to help with the mission.  They can fight this notion, stomp their feet, throw their tantrums and argue all they want, but this only leads to unhappiness.

The vast majority of men would not be able to compute this.  It’s taken me 17 years of pain and 15 months of study to sort out these ideas and I’m still working on the specifics.

Discussing it with other Men

This brings me to the importance of having other men to talk with.

Jack has had a pretty tight email correspondence with NovaSeeker and Ed Hurst at Radix Fidem.  He’s also had email volleys with Caterpillar345, Deep Strength, Deti, J.T. Anderson, Larry’s Musings, LastHoldOut, Lexet Iustitia, Mogadishu Matt, Oscar, Rock Kitaro, Scott, Stephanie, and the administrator of the SynLogos aggregator.

Scott councils men on a regular basis as part of his career as a psychologist. Earlier this year, Scott went to California to visit Jason (Lastmod), and since then, they’ve developed good rapport.  Over a year ago, Jason was banned because of his acrimony to other commenters. But these days, Jason actually stays on topic when many other comments veer off topic and he is sharing stuff that actually points to something more important. Apparently, his visit with Scott has clued him in about how things are supposed to be!

Since being introduced to the ‘sphere, I’ve developed a lively correspondence with several men, including Deti and Mike Davis at Marriage, Sex, and More.  Deti and I have an email string that will hit 100 emails when he replies to my most recent email to him.  He has actually seen my family via social media and we have built trust to the point of being quite honest with each other.  Just the other night he pointed out my take on a topic was in line with his, but he might opt for a less harsh approach with the remedy.

In knowing how difficult it is to think critically about your own actions due to the inherent bias we have for ourselves, Deti’s thoughts served at the very least as a point to think about. This is the value of men’s spaces, and our interactions highlight what we have lost by allowing women into what used to be areas of life meant solely for men.

What is happening on Σ Frame, in the posts themselves and in the discussion threads, is the development of wisdom.  The ability to be candid with men who have had similar experiences really does help in multiple facets of being a husband, boyfriend or man in general. Writing well requires depth of thought and the testing of ideas according to Jordan Peterson and I see merit in his assertion.

Jack has stated that one of his motivations for blogging is to record and disseminate what he’s learned along the way.  Lately, he had a discussion with Ed in which he came to see Σ Frame as a thinktank that redefines manhood as something distinct from what is put forth by the feminist-soaked culture AND from what churchianity has offered over the last few decades.  It’s more Biblically oriented, but also not exactly like traditional masculinity of ages past.

To offer another example, the background for the list of “helps” I gave in my comment on the concept of envy, contentment, gratefulness, and joy, was born out of my email string with Deti.  As you can imagine, it’s been a very long hard road for me to “fill in the gaps” (some of which were more like chasms), and come to a proper understanding of things.  I hashed out the ideas after Deti correctly pegged the bitterness that underlies almost all of Jason’s comments.

Yes, we’ve learned so much from Brother Jason!  Jack feels humbled and grateful to see how much Jason has grown since he met Scott.

As you can see, an important purpose of these discussions is to further our life knowledge, and we do this by sharing experiences and comparing notes.  Iron sharpens iron. For me, and Deti too as he has stated as much, expressing yourself in emails like ours is a form of therapy in an effective, male centric and biblically truth-based form.  Almost all women would be aghast at what Deti and I have written because in many ways the roughness and bluntness of our interaction is an effusion of the scars on our hearts, both those our wives have directly inflicted and those we have to come to realize, through reflecting on the past, that we have inflicted on ourselves with our Blue Pill chump churchianity behaviors.  So, while women would most certainly recoil, I have a notion that most men would wonder where to grab a bourbon and a cigar and join in.

Final Admonitions

In sum, know how things are supposed to be, and discuss it with other men. We could also think of this as sharing a vision of Godly masculinity in a community of Shalom, characterized by sanctified Headship marriages, emotionally healthy children, and all else that this entails.

Try not to think about progress because you cannot see the ripples as they expand out of sight.  The progress is exponential as long as we are faithful to not stop pushing even though we might not see all the lives involved in God’s plan.

It is enough to know our fellowship on this blog will have a part in bettering the lives of many people.

  • Me, by giving me a forum to think and hash out ideas.
  • My 2 sons because I will not let this hard-earned information stop with me.
  • My brother because he sees the same things I do.
  • My 2 nephews because my brother is becoming as committed as I am to telling them the truth about women.  (That’s 6 men in one family.)
  • RedPillBoomer is spoonfeeding the Red Pill to the men around him.
  • Cameron has 8 kids.  I assume he teaches his daughters what being a good wife looks like, and his sons how to avoid any women that don’t follow biblical patriarchy?
  • In addition to all the regular commenters, we have about 200 regular readers here.

How many families will that add up to?

Another way to think about his is that God, in His omniscience, knew that men spread across the globe would have grave difficulty and hurt in their marriages.  Through a maze of events, so personal and twisted, that our human minds could not follow, He brought us together on a blog and used that blog to change lives generationally.

The Holy Spirit works in ways we will never foresee.

Exit Question

A few readers have expressed an interest in meeting other readers IRL. Jack and I thought about how we could match up those readers who live closer to each other and give them a chance to meet, but it seems like much to ask and a little risky. So instead, we’ll just ask readers who are interested in having a private email conversation with another reader to email Jack and he will pass your contact information along.  After that, it will be up to people to be authentic with each other for a long enough period that trust can be built to a level that meeting in person is an event that would come naturally.

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This entry was posted in Authenticity, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Choosing A Profession, Churchianity, Communications, Confidence, Courtship and Marriage, Culture Wars, Decision Making, Discernment, Wisdom, Education, Enduring Suffering, Evangelism, Faith Community, Feminism, Fundamental Frame, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Influence, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Manosphere, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Purpose, Relationships, Respect, Self-Concept, The Power of God. Bookmark the permalink.

178 Responses to Knowing how things are supposed to be

  1. cameron232 says:

    Most of the direct communication to my older daughter is from my wife. My wife and I regularly discuss RP topics, Christian marriage, etc. I don’t know what role a father should have in discussing marriage with the daughter – I assume the father should instruct the mother on what to teach the daughter and then the mother should follow though. Of course, this means you can’t directly supervise the process but obviously the mother can say whatever she wants to the daughter when you’re not around anyway. I’m confident my wife takes the opposite approach to the typical encouraging of the daughter’s skankdom (generally done so the mother can experience the thrill vicariously through the daughter). What approach does Scott take with daughters – more active – or does Mychael handle it?

    The girls are protected. Not allowed to go even to the private school the boys are in. Making them “socially awkward” can’t possibly be as bad as the results people are getting by sending their girls to school, public and private.

    Son #1 is largely redpilled because he went to a public high school (a very high achieving one). The GenZ boys, many of them, are quite redpilled on a number of topics – they see how messed up the girls are. Son #2 is a nose-in-video-games-100% introvert. His chances of marrying aren’t good if I had to guess. He’s redpilled too through his brother and through discussion with other young males about “fat, green-haired feminists”, etc. I really didn’t have to discuss this stuff all that much with them. Older boy figured it out.

    Younger boys are still boys – years from dealing with the girl issue. I have mixed feelings about what I should share. I feel like I’ll make them jaded and destroy any chance they have of marrying.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      Cameron —

      ” I assume the father should instruct the mother on what to teach the daughter and then the mother should follow though.”

      Your assumption is possible as the direction is coming from you through your wife. Even so, you are the one who is responsible for your daughter. She is under your protective headship until you give her to another man. To me, this would mean a more hands on approach to guiding her to accompany those things her mother should be teaching her.

      There is also the enlightening and funny exercise many stats classes do in relaying story details that is pertinent to your sentiment about your daughter. Here’s the exercise if you aren’t already familiar with it. 6 students are selected and 5 leave the room so they don’t hear a story the teacher reads to the first student who has remained in the room. Then one at a time a student is brought back into the room and the details of the story are relayed from student to student until student 5 tells student 6 the story. By the time 5 tells 6 the story, almost none of the details reflect what was originally read by the teacher. This is my way of explaining that you should be involved in teaching your daughter directly.

      “I really didn’t have to discuss this stuff all that much with them. Older boy figured it out.”

      You sound like the guy who did my marriage counseling regarding what one would consider mildly essential topics on the marriage relationship, such as inequitable sex drives and biblical marital authority. Do I need to rehash how that worked out?

      Be proactive in affirming that all of your sons have the knowledge that you have gained. Assuming they will “figure it out” on their own is how we lost 2-3 generations of men to blue pill thinking. It is how Deti and I missed what I now consider flashing red red obvious signs early on in our respective relationships and were both too indoctrinated to know we could set boundaries to get what we wanted from our relationships. The same mindset towards marriage led us both to go for over a decade and a half before we had each had enough.

      Do not open your sons to the possibility of a marriage like mine because of a knowledge issue. The Bible clearly instructs parents to teach their children and RP information about biblical masculinity falls squarely into the type of lessons you should be certain they know. The stakes are too high to do otherwise.

      Liked by 5 people

      • cameron232 says:

        My grandfather, who wasn’t super involved in our lives, decided to give advice to my sister. Like a lot of men in his generation, he was blunt not “sensitive.” He said, “Don’t be a streetwalker.”

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        I can’t argue with your grandfather’s message, but you might want to tweak the delivery if that is what you want to convey to your daughter. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

    • redpillboomer says:

      “I don’t know what role a father should have in discussing marriage with the daughter – I assume the father should instruct the mother on what to teach the daughter and then the mother should follow though. Of course, this means you can’t directly supervise the process but obviously the mother can say whatever she wants to the daughter when you’re not around anyway.”

      So for me with my daughter, I did something similar to what you wrote above cameron232. The results weren’t the best. My wife didn’t contradict my instructions to my daughter about boys/guys/men (I don’t think), albeit my instructions were, in looking back, relatively modest and I think lacked firmness behind them. After all, I was blue pilled, but I was still masculine in most ways, I think I was swayed by the culture and trying to do it the ‘right way’ and not ‘violate’ too many cultural no-no’s, like telling her straight up what men are like and telling her to keep her legs together until marriage. I tried hinting at it, or talking in ‘parables’ or whatever dumb thing I could think of at the time. She probably thought her dad was silly and just had no clue.

      The issue with my wife was, I think in some ways, that she was enjoying living vicariously through my daughter. My girl was/is really good looking, blonde and curvy, so she had male attention since her teens. I don’t think my wife encouraged sex at all, probably told her not to do it; didn’t buy her condoms or give her the pill or anything like that, that I know of; however, I think the attention/validation seeking aspect of all/most females spilled over on to my wife. When her daughter is getting all that male attention, it allows her to live vicariously through it.

      My wife missed out on some of that male attention because her family situation was jacked up and she got married to me at 21. She’s got a strong faith, so I don’t think she felt she missed out on the CC; however, the attention/validation part, I think she definitely feels she missed out on it because she was too busy taking care of her dad who was ill (and eventually died), and cleaning up after her mother who was totally incompetent to manage anything about the household, especially finances. I think this saved my wife in part from the CC some of her friends, including the Christian ones, were taking a spin on.

      So, I think all things considered, it turned out okay with my daughter; not great, not even good necessarily, but passable. My daughter is 29, engaged to an guy she’s known since she was 24. He’s a good guy for the most part, and she and he seem to do well together. Of course, her college years when she was away, I don’t know what happened during that time frame. It was a Christian college, so I think her body count remained fairly low, especially by today’s standards. I do wonder, If I’d had all this RP knowledge that I have now, would it have made a real difference? In my approach, I think it would have certainly; in the results, I think it would still have been uncertain. I just don’t know.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Lexet Blog says:

        I appreciate your observation that women live vicariously through their teen daughters. Every woman I know who has teen daughters encourages maximum drama and self destructive behaviors for their daughters. Women are truly incapable of loving for their children long term

        Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        She’s 29? She’s known him since she was 24?

        What’s the holdup? Why aren’t they married and making babies by now? She needs to get going on babies right now if she wants any.

        Like

  2. cameron232 says:

    RE: Exit question.

    When I get around to it I’ll get a real email and establish real contact. I’ve said a lot about where I live, etc. I don’t really care much beyond a future employer disqualifying me with a 5 minute google search. If someone wants to figure out who “Cameron” who says “women are hypergamous” really is well have at it.

    Contact also establishes trust because you can verify the person is more or less who they say and not a larp-er.

    I don’t think anyone here is some kind of narc – don’t have a problem trusting you guys. Scott is quite clear about who he is. It doesn’t seem to have ended in disaster for him. I’m a nobody – no one’s gonna spend a bunch of time digging up dirt on me.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “Scott is quite clear about who he is. It doesn’t seem to have ended in disaster for him.”

      Scott has taken a number of hits because of his association with the Manosphere. He never mentions this here, but he’s told me a few things through email. I don’t recommend that any readers make themselves into an open target unless they’re ready to take those hits, and have a good reason to do so.

      Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Yes, I remember him talking about it here in non-specific details. He exited for awhile because of this. That’s why I told him “welcome back” when he decided to reengage.

        It’s probably best not to have your full name on display so it’s not google-able.

        I assume it was this sort of thing and not someone in the manosphere being a vindictive narc to him.

        Like

      • Lexet Blog says:

        If you are about to retire, go ahead and dox yourself.

        But know that they will go after your family.

        When I was an activist in college, they went after my parents jobs.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Ed Hurst says:

    I am most fortunate; there is a sense in which I’ve already lost all that I could lose in being a Red Pill advocate. I can afford to engage this openly. It’s only going to get better from here on out, and I’m not in the least bitter about what I have lost. On the other hand, it has been pretty lonely.

    Liked by 5 people

    • whiteguy1 says:

      Ed, I would love to meet you and your girl sometime in the near future. You are not that far from me and we haven’t set up a border crossing on the red river (yet) HA!

      To all the men here, I can’t express how much y’all mean to me, these last few years have been brutal on me, my family has been supportive but it’s not the same as the fellowship we have here on these blogs, where I know I’m not alone in my struggles.

      Liked by 8 people

    • Scavos says:

      “On the other hand, it has been pretty lonely.”

      I can definitely relate to this. Seeing the direction my peers have gone, it’s tough to talk about certain topics, particularly anything Red Pill, regardless of whether it’s secular or Christian. Some of them are starting to listen, but only because of a traumatic experience (i.e. divorce), but not much else.

      I wouldn’t be opposed to meeting some in this group. Based on what info I have, the closest to me are Sharkly (his expose on a Kansas church) and Deti (somewhere in the Midwest). If the opportunity arises, having face to face meetings would be great.

      Liked by 3 people

      • thedeti says:

        Im in the midwest. Email me if you’re nearby and we can set up a meet. I have been bothering Nova to stop in and have almost invited myself to visit him.

        Liked by 3 people

  4. Lastmod says:

    Scott and myself in our meeting didn’t have much time……..and we didn’t have some sort of “workshop” where he told me how it was supposed to be.

    When we met we just talked about life in gneral stuff. I will say he was just listened to me. I don’t believe I dumped my life on him, nor did he tell me “what to do in six easy steps…”

    I honestly think….and he’ll correct me if I am wrong, or thinks differently…….I think we saw each other a bit differently when we actually met. I found him to be very down to earth, approachable, funny, and an all around good guy. I know that he too thought as well “not what I was expecting”

    Yes…..we are very different. I am planning to hike / camp Glacier in the next few years…hopefully I will be able to meet up with him again at that time. I know he has roots in So-Cal…..and he is more than welcome to drop in here if he and his family find themselves down here.

    Sometimes…..and I think we’re all guilty of this on a layout / forum like this. We tend to pigeonhole men as “this way” or “that way” and they are “always / will always think or behave or reply” a certain way. Part of the reason society wants all men in general isolate is so that that they cannot meet and and actually accomplish something, or anything (like seeing building a trust so to speak….society cannot have that)

    Good post

    Liked by 4 people

    • Lastmod says:

      I must add…..when we did say our goodbyes and I took the short drive back up to Fresno he did mention “You know our online relationship will change, it will be different now”

      Agreed. How could it not be? We saw each other as men…..albeit very different men…but as men….no longer some postings on a topic. A good thing. Really.

      Liked by 6 people

      • Ed Hurst says:

        Words between men are just a carrier wave. The best of what we do for each other is hidden behind the words. For most of us, nothing can replace that face-to-face contact. I say that this is where the Lord’s power manifests most strongly. We might be able to infer that connection, but it’s never the same as the personal bond.

        Liked by 3 people

    • caterpillar345 says:

      Jason – when you make it up to Glacier, hit me up. I’m in the Pacific Northwest and would love to get up there at some point.

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Sure. I am a backpacker and camper that is CHILL!

        I am not out to “break records” or do ascents or hike a trail in x amount of time. I go to the woods and the wilderness to recharge. I do take on challenging hikes (Northville-Placid Trail, Adirondacks in 2017, Mt. Whitney in 2018), and I have hiked extensively in the Carson-Iceberg Wilderness Area of California (Dardanelles), but it’s making sure I have TIME, and I get the objective(s) done that I want to accomplish.

        I love on a trek when I find a great spot…. you know, just an awesome spot. I can then decide, “Yeah, done for the day… stopping here”, without “Oh look, awesome! But we have another ten miles to do, or somehow I am not “man” enough.”

        On my camping and backpacking treks I ALWAYS make sure I take more than enough time off in case I do get caught in a storm, or I just say after eight miles in a day, “Yup, this spot is great. Done for the day.”

        The enjoyment and reflection is very important to me…. Sure, I at times have had to say, “Gotta crank out 15 miles, and its all UP today….. ughh”, and I am very supportive, encouraging and actually happy on treks like this.

        Glacier would be a treat someday. I also want to visit Yellowstone. I still have some shorter hikes I would love to do back in my Adirondacks.

        Will keep you posted.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        I like dayhikes – hate sleeping on the ground.

        Oldest son and I just did Yellowstone and Grand Teton in June. Very nice. Glacier would be next on my list out west.

        I’ve had two hikes where I wanted to die. In 2013 I ended up carrying oldest son’s pack for him in the San Juan’s near Ouray, Colorado. In 2016, I ended up carrying my #4 son on my shoulders a good part of the way on the Mt. Rogers, Virginia hike.

        I lost my wedding ring at base camp on Mt Elbert in 2013. Assumed it slipped off who knows where. Found it a year or so later. It had fallen off when I was rolling up the tent and was in the folded tent.

        Like

      • Maniac says:

        God blessed my finances a few years ago and I made the trek to Glacier Park afterward. Incredible place.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. cameron232 says:

    OT:

    All the radical feminists shown here (the ones who want to abolish “gender”) are ugly. The subject of the post, who’s a not-so-radical feminist (doesn’t want to abolish gender) is a normal looking woman with a boy haircut. Not shown, you have to google the name.

    In the old days, the ugly ones who didn’t accept an ugly husband became nuns and helped orphaned children. Now, if they’re intelligent, they work to abolish sex distinctions and destroy Western Civilization.

    https://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2021/09/kathleen-stock-2.html

    Like

  6. RayRay says:

    The segment of this post that speaks to discussing these type of topics with men really hit me. I have a handful of male friends but I can’t have fruitful and constructive discussions with them regarding manhood, women, business, life, etc. Many of them are plugged into the feminist narrative and it annoys me. I’ll never forget the one time my one good friend told me that we have to be feminists. Shook my mind. I don’t know if it’s the media influencing my friends outlook towards matters like this or because we are 20/21 and don’t know where our values lie, so we go with what everyone is doing.

    I have also realised something with being friends with people for too long. You begin to get comfortable with one another and even disregards your shortcomings and faults. I get we’re human but if one your boys is picking up weight ( fat ) or not doing well in school/work, are you just going to keep quiet and pretend like it’s not a big issue or tell him straight up that he needs to pick up his socks. In my small friend group, we seldomly tell guys where they are falling short.

    I am reluctant to share this next point because it does not paint a good image on my father and I. Hoping you will understand. My father has taken care of our family in the financial sense — ensuring there is food on the table, a roof above ours heads, and he has taken my brother and I to good schools. My mother is also working and she has contributed a lot as well. Comparison is the thief of joy but when I look at other boys — particularly my white friends ( I am black ) — they know how to do stuff — survival skills, fix broken things outside and inside the house, etc. I can do basics but you cannot rely on me in life and death situations. When I look I look at my dad and his brothers, they cannot use their hands. I guess they are just by-products of their environments/cultures while growing up. So self-education is where I’m at.

    I am from South Africa and I’ll give you a quick insight to a minority of black families living here. Some black parents want their children to speak English so they can attend English schools, fair. However, they fail to teach their children their mother tongue. My mother is coloured ( she grew up speaking Afrikaans ), she does not know Sepedi, my father is Sepedi. Long story short, I cannot speak my father’s mother tongue but I know a good chunk of my mother’s. I had a strong resentment for my father ( still kind of do ), but I have started to just accept the kind of man he is and shoulder this responsibility of learning his mother tongue from people around me. He has done what he can for me. A parent can only do so much for their children.

    Lastly on my father, I appreciate him coming to my rowing, rugby, and athletics fixture’s throughout my years in secondary school. Heck, I’m even lucky to have a dad – just over 2/3 of black South Africans under 35 grow up without their fathers. I just don’t know if I can look up to him. There is stuff I cannot disclose on here even though my real name is not on display ( I think Jack may have seen my real name if he has access to our emails, I think he does, I do not use WordPress ). There are just some characteristics and behaviours that my father has that I do not want to adopt.

    My rant is done.

    Liked by 5 people

    • cameron232 says:

      I’m awful at fixing things. My dad didn’t fix things. His dad and grandfather were doctors – doctors didn’t fix things.

      Like

      • feeriker says:

        I’m terrible at fixing most things, too, even though my dad did it as a hobby (he was an accountant by profession, and “tinkering” was his way of unstressing). Sadly, he never taught me a whole lot about that craft, for which I often suffer now. Go figure

        Liked by 1 person

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      RayRay,

      If you want to learn how to fix things start with disassembly. It is how I started doing maintenance on cars. YouTube has vast stores of content, on about any subject that might interest you, should you want to watch someone prior to attempting a fix on your own. I tend to watch to make sure I have all the tools I’ll need to complete the work.

      Know that most builds or repairs are quite doable for most people after a little research or a tutorial, but fear usually gets in the way.

      Liked by 2 people

      • RayRay says:

        Red Pill Apostle,

        Well, I guess I must just start changing the type of videos I watch on YouTube when I have free time, and change my mindset. Thank you for your reply.

        Like

    • Jack says:

      There’s something to be said for doing/fixing things yourself as an expression of masculinity.

      My grandfather was a boilermaker for the railroad (he made steam locomotives) and then in 1948 when diesel came in, he was out of work, so he got a job as an electrician at a foundry. He had a 2-1/2 car garage, a basement, and two sheds out back full of tools and equipment. He even had old blacksmithing tools from his days with the railroad. When I was growing up, one of my favorite things to do was go to his house and look at all his tools and do/make stuff.

      My father and uncle were also do-it-yourself-ers. I learned how to weld in high school and studied engineering in college. My cousin went into the computer business, so we added that to the family skillset. Between all of us, we could do or fix just about anything we wanted. When I was a kid, we made a huge treehouse that made me the envy of all the kids in the neighborhood. My father bought an abandoned house in a backwoods area and my grandfather and uncle helped transform it into a hunting/vacation cabin. When I wanted more space to house and work on my cars, my dad and uncle built a barn.

      We did all our own construction, woodworking, plumbing, painting, siding, flooring, roofing, brickwork and masonry… We maintained our own cars too. I learned a lot growing up in this kind of environment. It gives you a deeper sense of ownership, “I made this”, like you can change your environment. Using the can-do attitude and skills I learned from them, I made pretty good money working my way through college.

      Earning a degree put me in a different world though. During a few interviews, I mentioned my family background, that I did my own plumbing, repaired my own car, and so on, thinking that this experience would impress them. No, they dismissed me as a redneck. I learned that engineers have to give off a white collar impression to be taken seriously.

      Liked by 4 people

      • anonymous_ng says:

        @Jack, I wonder if that’s a more modern thing. When I was in the USAF, one of my instructors at my Aircraft Maintenance and Munitions Officer Course told about how back in the ’60s, aircraft maintenance officers often got their airframe and powerplant licenses even though they weren’t going to be working on the aircraft.

        From that, I get the impression that engineering wasn’t always seen as such a white collar profession as now.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Lexet Blog says:

        Considering that the b52 was designed in a motel room with a wood carved model, I agree

        Liked by 1 person

      • RayRay says:

        Jack,

        Your comment points to Scott’s post about Archetypal Mythos and Innate Personality Traits. Some skill sets are just passed down from one generation to the next. I envy your family.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        RayRay,

        “Your comment points to Scott’s post about Archetypal Mythos and Innate Personality Traits.”

        There is so much to be learned about Archetypal Mythos, but it’s NOT something that can be “taught”. It has to be “caught”. The father-to-son relationship is how this is passed on. Scott described this in his post.

        This is one of my favorite posts from Scott, because it motivates us to create such legacies for our progeny.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        There is also the factor of innate aptitude. Some men are better at fixing, building, etc. than others. This is 100% demonstrated by science. Remember the “mechanical” section on the ASVAB military test?

        My maternal grandfather could fix or build about anything. He welded, was, at various times, a diesel mechanic, airplane mechanic, boat mechanic. He taught himself all these things – there was less requirements for certification back then.

        Any man can work on skills – I’m an expert at replacing toilets – ask me why 😊

        But there will also be innate aptitudes that matter. Not every man can solve abstract mathematical problems the same way. Not every man can write well, etc. Not every man will rebuild transmissions or build his wife’s dream house.

        My wife is very mechanically inclined for a woman. Not that it’s rocket science but she e.g. replaces starters on her van (it broke while I was at work – I could have done it too). We’re working on an elaborate treehouse for the kids – we started it together on the weekend but she’s just gone ahead and worked on it while I’m at work.

        We had a Baptist couple we were friends with many years ago. They told us if my wife worked on things around the house we’d have marital problems. So far, that hasn’t happened.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        I remember growing up, dad taught me how to put chains on the car tires (lots of snow and ice where I grew up), and how to change the oil, rotate the tires, flush the radiator…..in California you can’t do this stuff if you live in an apartment…so I have to take the car to the dealer. Not too handy overall. Sure, can do some basic stuff…..but…..

        I taught myself over the past twenty years to repair turntables, direct drive small motors….electronic stuff. Also repairing receivers, reel to reel decks. I can read wiring diagrams very well now. This one in the demo is the current model I am using at home. My is a 1970.

        Liked by 2 people

    • caterpillar345 says:

      I agree with several of the replies here, especially with Jack’s comment tying it to masculinity. I’ve leaned into this idea as I’ve grown up, and for this reason. My dad did teach me a lot of practical hands-on skills and problem solving. I’m certainly no tradesman but I have an idea how to do a lot of things and the confidence to watch YouTube videos and tackle things I don’t know how to do.

      Red Pill Apostle mentioned learning by disassembly. This is how I formed the base of my familiarity with computer hardware. When I was in my late pre-teens, my dad gave me an old fax machine from his office and told me to take it completely apart – down to the last screw. My parents had a couple ancient computer towers (that still worked) kicking around in the basement. I carefully took those apart and put them back together with the goal that they would turn on when put back together – and it worked! My trajectory on computers was only up from there. After a while I had enough naive confidence to take apart a couple laptops including my own brand new laptop to replace the thermal paste on the CPU (that really didn’t need replaced…). I found tutorial videos on YouTube, was extremely careful, and they all worked when I put them back together! A few years later I built a new computer from scratch for the first time for my church’s webcast production with help from another man in the church. Computer hardware and software is one area of my life where I have excelled for some reason, and mostly by my own research and learning, aided by opportunities given to me by my parents and my church. In that sense it has given me a lot of confidence, at least in that area.

      Jack mentioned welding. We had an old engine-drive welder at Grandma’s place for years that we rarely ever used because my dad knew very little about welding. Enough to make “bubble gum” welds, as he called it. I grew up with the sense of welding as this really dangerous electrical thing that was mysterious and hard to do. Before the last semester of my engineering degree, I heard one of my buddies was going to take a welding class in the ag science department and I jumped on the opportunity to take it with him. Just a one-semester Intro to Welding course was enough to get exposed to all the different major types of welding and get good enough to make useful things. The usefulness and confidence I acquired from that class was shocking. Welding was no longer a mysterious dangerous thing — it was something I understood and could do safely! I could fix something metal if it breaks! If I needed some custom tool or bracket, I could make it! If I needed to build a small metal structure I could do that!

      RayRay, I’d agree with RedPillApostle — YouTube is a great place to start. And you can start with anything in your immediate vicinity. Buy a basic set of tools and learn how to use them (look up Essential Craftsman on YouTube). Look for any simple opportunity to break them out. Any simple repair on your car, house, computer, appliance, etc. is an excuse to spend the money you would have spent on the repair man’s shop labor on your own tools. Check out someone like Van Neistat or AvE on YouTube for inspiration about fixing, making, and tinkering with things. If there is a “Maker” community where you’re located there would be lots of people happy to teach you.

      Liked by 1 person

      • RayRay says:

        Caterpillar345,

        I will check out those YouTubers and see if I can’t get my hands dirty on some house work. Thank you for your reply.

        Liked by 1 person

    • locustsplease says:

      My dad refused to fix anything. Claiming, “That’s what I make money for”, but its more of a “I am upper class. I will hire servants for those tasks, and I’m talking about every task.” I always was interested in cars and learned from magazines, books, forums, and YouTube videos. Being self employed has forced me to do repairs I would never try otherwise, and I’m getting pretty good. I am currently mid way thru restoring a semi truck. Having no experience, every phase is a huge accomplishment. I’m not gonna lie, it will be beautiful! I have a stack of really nice parts and I’m about to paint it. Super exciting!

      Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Same here. My dad’s dad was a doctor. Doctors didn’t fix things, do menial labor. He would have hired e.g. my maternal grandfather.

        So my dad didn’t learn and didn’t have any confidence in fixing things. It is definitely a family culture thing.

        Like

  7. anonymous_ng says:

    Lots of people talking about where they live.

    For now, I’m still hanging my hat in the Colorado Front Range. However, in three weeks, I’m heading to Russia for six months.

    The main purpose of my trip is to really nail down my Russian language skills, to see what it’s like to live there and how close does the reality compare to how it’s portrayed in the MSM. Beyond that, I want to experience living in a real city for a while. I want to go to the ballet, theater, and opera. I want to get a place within easy walking distance to church, and see what that’s like.

    I’m not going to be in Moscow or St. Petersburg, at least not at the beginning, for two reasons. The first is that the cost of living there is much higher than in smaller cities like Kazan, or Sochi, but also, I’m less likely to run into Americans and English speaking expat content creators in a smaller city.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Give us updates on Russia.

      Like

    • Joe2 says:

      “…to see what it’s like to live there and how close does the reality compare to how it’s portrayed in the MSM.”

      I found the English travel vlogger “Bald and Bankrupt” has some interesting videos on his “YouTube” channel documenting life in the post Soviet states. Life there is kind of depressing compared to what I take for granted here in the US.

      Like

  8. redpillboomer says:

    I live in Georgia, near Macon… What about a Zoom call where we all get on and meet one another?

    Liked by 5 people

  9. Scott says:

    Today I heard a Stone Roses song I haven’t heard in 30 years.

    Then I pulled out my cherry chapstick, the smell of which reminds me of sharing chapstick with all my high school friends and I almost passed out from pleasure.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Scott says:

      SiriusXM is pretty much awesome.

      Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      Cherry chapstick – must be a Southern California thing.

      Like

    • lastholdout says:

      LOL!!!!!!

      Like

    • cameron232 says:

      Had no freakin’ clue who the Stone Roses are. Tell me a good song to listen to.

      Wiki says they were influenced by The Jesus and Mary Chain. And influenced Oasis.

      This is a remake of an 1980s song I liked as a kid. Typical of the SIMP-ing stuff I would eat up. This is the sort of thing that made us Bluepill-Suckas and prone to have your heart crushed by jerk-loving-chicks. Alpha douchebags didn’t listen to stuff like this. If I could live my life again I’d have channeled my inner douchebag a bit more. Liz’ll love that.

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        The Stone ROses “Fools Gold” probably from 1988 /1989. This bacame an “alternative” classic in the UK. They were part of that late 1980 / early 1990’s Manchester neo-psychedelic scene (Happy Mondays, Charlatans UK, 808 State, Inpsiral Carpets, The Farm)

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        That icehouse song is a good one. Reminds me of watching my girlfriend change out of her bathing suit in the passenger seat of my truck after a day skipping school at the beach.

        Sigh

        The two songs from stone roses you would have heard if are “I wanna be adored” and “fools gold.”

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        I never really concerned myself with what “alphas” listened too. Maybe that helped

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Yeah dude. I don’t really have a clue what alpha males listen to I just know it ain’t simpin’ stuff.

        I’d say “Pantera” but I’m not sure if that gets chicks or scares chicks.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Those heavy metal dudes were who we scored from pot from.

        Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      I did have little kid girlfriends in late elementary, early middle school. The type that you became a boyfriend to and broke up with using handwritten-on-notebook-paper notes with a box you check.

      “Will you be my boyfriend? Check yes or no.”

      An 80’s thing I guess. Only #5 alpha son has had anything remotely like that.

      Like

      • Scott says:

        Yep. That is an important part of the trajectory. The note passing-holing hands-“going out” for 2 days thing. If you don’t get invited to that part of development, you will struggle at the next phase.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Yeah unfortunately my first 3 boys missed that it seems.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I remember, right before that phase (I was probably about 9 or 10) we went on a school field trip to the snow. People were in various cars, and me and some friend of mine were in one of those big station wagons–the kind with the rear facing way back seat.

        Me and my buds were in the middle seat, and a junior high couple were way in the back, doing, whatever. It was probably not sex, but other stuff.

        The driver of the car was one of the youth pastors or teachers at the school (it was a Christian school). Right under the nose of the leadership, in the back of his car.

        We, being the little 9 year old perverts we were, kept trying to get a peak. I do remember looking forward to those days. All part of the normative American sexual developmental experience I guess.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        This is so freakin depressing. Really if you’re not on that trajectory – little kid girlfriend – serious high school girlfriend(s), etc. I gotta think you’re gonna end up as a guy who’s the “I wanna get married, you’ll have to do” guy. Or worse.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Yeah, it is kind of like that though. If you don’t jump in when you get your chance, you could miss it.

        Chicks.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Yeah, but you gotta have certain qualities to get a chance to jump in to. As you age, the requirements for getting a chance to jump into relax a bit as chicks figure out they won’t be able to get what they want in a permanent relationship. Them’s the breaks.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Excuse me while I jump out of the 6th floor window here.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        None of that is necessary.

        You just gotta like, you know, whatever dude.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Would probably hit a palm tree on the way down and just end up breaking my leg or something.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        That’s the spirit.

        Like

    • cameron232 says:

      I was hanging out with a girl in college (didn’t do nothin with her) a tall, lanky cross-country-runner-chick. While I was dating (boy that turned into a sh!tshow) and really defacto married.

      She took me someplace in her lil’ pickup and decided she needed to change: “Don’t look.”

      I was too much of a dumb@ss-bluepill-gentleman-goober to know what was going on. Not that it would have changed anything – wouldn’t have done anything different except not hang out with her in the first place.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        Those kinds of situations present themselves and you have about a nanosecond to respond appropriately.

        *see– my story about the girl the Monday after the winter formal.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        College chick had a boyfriend who attended a different college, U. of North Florida. Her high school boyfriend. She told me he was Catholic (meant nothing to me then) and she “admired his faith.”

        Of course I thought this meant she had no intentions. Such a dumb@ss (me). It didn’t follow the script of a romantic song or something.

        Chicks do bad stuff.

        Like

  10. Lastmod says:

    I remember fall 1989…..party in the corn field behind the college…..”Fools Gold” playing on boom box, bonfire….doing keg stands. The cool, crisp autumn air of Vermont. You could see the campus in the distance. the light from a moon and iron street on the brick and ivy of the buildings…..the brilliant colors of the maples turning those reds, pruples, golds, and oranges…..marijuana smoke everywhere at this party……long, long time ago

    Liked by 1 person

    • Lastmod says:

      Though blown away in 1990 when I first was dosed with high grade LSD after dinner on campus. Heard this album. Never the same after. Most of the campus was tripping that night……one guy name Brent had an huge stereo, and blasted this album out of his window to the front green of the dorm…….a few art students put / hooked up strobes into the trees…….danced, layed in the grass on that cool spring of a new decade. Iremember a gal Janine was her name…….painting my face with psychedelic markings…..I enjoy the music now without drugs thankfully. Lonf time ago

      Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        Happy Mondays, Stone Roses, Soup Dragons, Jesus Jones, Oasis, EMF. All right about 89-91ish.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Saw Dramarama open for The Cult at Irvine Meadows, 1991.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Almost forgot. Inspiral Carpets!

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        I definitely didn’t have the wild college experience but then that’s because I was busy living in sin with my future wife.

        My dad did the dorm life. The hippies next door would get stoned and listen to this hour long record of humpback whale songs: “Wow man! That’s so deep! I can understand what they’re sayin’, man!”

        Early 1970s.

        Like

    • Scott says:

      That sounds awesome.

      Like

  11. Scott says:

    Jason-

    Did you like stuff like Fishbone?

    Like

    • Lastmod says:

      Love Fishbone. I actually saw them at a small club in Fresno in 2016. Awesome show.

      Like

      • Scott says:

        I was asked to guest drum for a band like that in HS once. They all wore suits with Doc Martens and I they wanted me to dress like that. I prefer to play drums with Chuck Taylors so they let me slide on the shoes.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Lol! I play b flat coronet, always wanted to be a part of a ska band. At the show, I represented hard in the pit, doc on. but I even at one point had to say…”Hey, you kids handle it…sitting this one out”

        It felt like 1991 again when they did play this, and extended version of it……the crowd cheered so loud when it was over. I got bruised pretty bad during this one when they performed it:

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I got beat up pretty bad at Inspiral Carpets, at the Palace in Hollywood, 1991. I didn’t think there was going to be a pit, so I wasn’t really thinking like that. Their music seemed so sweet in the studio version. Plus, I wasn’t drunk so it hurt more.

        Like

  12. Lastmod says:

    It was a dying era……the traditional “New England Plan” of college / university where you go and live on campus for four years is just about dead. You all ate together during meals. We had a formal dinner once a month where we celebrated everyones birthday. Faculty, staff, administration.

    My college required living on campus…part of this was because in the small college town / hamlets of New England….there was nowhere to live off campus! Commute? Unless you were from the local area. The nearest bigger town was Rutland (45 minutes away) and you are going to commute to school in the winter???? No way!

    My undergrad was 600 students…..the small private liberal-arts college in New England is dying. Times change….even if my college didn’t become woke…..these small colleges are so dependent on bodies on campus…tuition / residence on campus driven schools can no longer survive. Why pay 40K a year for a education degree, art degree, psychology degree, history when you can get a better bang for the buck at a large state college or university. This old model had a long run, and had outlived its usefulness for decades.

    I was glad I was a part of it. Though deeply sad that 195 years of tradition ended to no applause, and is very common in small town / gown colleges in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Scott says:

    Alright Jason, how about this?

    Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      Love that one. The original you posted not the remakes by the Boo-Radley’s or Sixpence whatever-they’re-called.

      Yeah this is a big time SIMP-ing song.

      Like

      • Scott says:

        I’m going to have to really think through the whole “simp ing” thing with regard to music. I wonder if, because of where I grew up, I would have been a total fail with girlfriends or whatever had I grown up somewhere else and liked the same stuff.

        Mychael and I grew up literally an hour away from each other, and never met until I was in graduate school 15 plus years later when I was divorced and in gradate school, 5 hours north of where we were teenagers.

        She loved 106.7 KROQ just like I did. We probably listened to the same make out tunes, just while making out with someone else. Probably went to the same concerts. She was a Long Beach surfer girl, so we probably passed each other at the OP Open Surf competition in Huntington Beach several times and never noticed each other. She totally could have been my girlfriend then. It never occurred to either of us to listen to Bon Jovi or Def Leppard or whatever. That stuff was for burnouts with long hair.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        My SIMP-ing category is really just trying to say that it seems to me this stuff trains men to pedestalize women and the guys who are most successful with women don’t do this. In general.

        My personal opinion on you – you’re a fairly unusual type – a romantic alpha. I just made a new manosphere category.

        Def Leppard had SIMP-ing songs. Naturally my favorite Def Leppard song is a SIMP-ing song.

        Like

      • Lexet Blog says:

        I’d like to take this moment and give thanks to kroq for introducing me to blink, Eminem, kid rock, korn, etc. also a shout out to KRZR (may it Rest In Peace) for the Fresno readers.

        Scott. As per simping and music, that affects all genres. I can’t remember where I saw the interview, but in the music industry labels pushed rock and rap artists to write songs specifically geared for women. The result was a massive increase in concert attendance. A brilliant marketing move.

        Unfortunately this leads to many a metal bands going pop (all that remains, for instance).

        As per compatibility, I have found that an 80/90s childhood in California is a world away from the childhoods of kids everywhere else.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        It’s funny Scott, looking back at the music of our youth. I was always romantically interested in girls. I never had a “girls are yuck” phase. In 1st grade I had a huge crush on a girl named Ginger. Then, each year after that, I singled out some girl that I “loved.” My first “girlfriend” was in the 4th grade: Becky Smith. Yeah the note thing.

        I remember in the 6th grade, I fell really hard for a girl with long golden hair who I sat next to. At that time, we used to do book orders from scholastic. I chose a couple of kid heartbreak romance novels. Crap like this:

        https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/842170.If_This_is_Love_I_ll_Take_Spaghetti

        I was that eager for romance with a girl and THAT torn up by a lack of it. I’ll say too that at the younger ages, sex played no real role in it all.

        Things just changed starting in Middle School. It was obvious that attractive jerkoffs were better with girls. It wasn’t just because they were the only ones who tried either. And attractive and jerk was preferred over average and romantic/nice.

        This is the way it is, and that was 40-ish years ago, but you now see it through your boys’ eyes. What do you tell them? “Stay sweet, and just be yourself and the girls will love you to death.”

        The reality is men are rewarded for their innate alpha attractiveness and jerkiness is either rewarded or at least doesn’t cost them anything if it isn’t too extreme. They are rewarded pre-maritally, and they are rewarded WITHIN marriage. “Romantic” means nothing to most women when it’s not coupled to alpha. This is probably the practical meaning of Rollo’s phrase,“Men are the romantic sex.”

        That’s how it is and the world’s not fair, but I think men who aren’t appropriately rewarded for being a good man/husband have the right TO WALK subject of course to their Christian conscience and understanding of the Bible or their churches teachings. I’m not even sure “staying for the kids sake” really is a valid excuse. What example does it set for the kids to be a blue pill whipping boy, draft animal, etc. And I think you have a right to keep as much of your money as you ethically can, ethically meaning your kids shouldn’t suffer dire poverty for something they didn’t do.

        Kids not having a dad and statistically turning out bad has as much or more to do with bad behavior in general being much more common among the pathological lower classes who have so many things going against them. Yeah, dads matter, but dads are still men.

        I don’t want to use this platform to encourage breakup of Christian marriages but that’s where I’m at today.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        The second paragraph of my comment looks like something Derek Zoolander would write.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Lexet-

        I think even back then we sensed that. I couldn’t understand why people from other places had to be concerned about the weather, didn’t have perfect tans all the time and never heard of KROQ music.

        Like

    • Lastmod says:

      Oh yes….I remember this! Good call btw! I have this on 45rpm!!!

      In high school and college we had WEQX FM, Manchester, Vermont. Which was voted the best “small / smaller market alternative” radio station by Rolling Stone Magazine for over a decade. The signal was strong enough to pick up in my hometown in northern New York State across Lake Champlain…and you could get it in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and even into Connecticut.

      AS for simping music?? Look, I like so called “love songs” but even back then….in college….I believed that “love” so to speak was for people not like me. People with better looks, better personalities and probably a better upbringing than I had in these matters.

      Doesn’t matter now.

      There was some good music back then…..but even at that age….I still fell on to my staples: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, The Who. Also the lighter “pop” from the UK back then that fit my Mod / Moddish sensibilities (Petula Clark, Dave Clark Five, Tom Jones, The Hollies). Soul music and stiff R&B from that same era grew deeper and harder on me as I entered into my mid-twenties.

      Honestly? And…I hate to offend country music fans……but I find most “country / western” music to be simp music. Forget “smooth R&B from the 1990’s” (we would call that music back then beggin-for-the-p*ssy-music). Modern country from the past 25 years or so is really, really awful. Give me Ray Price, Eddy Arnold, Buck Owens, or even Chet Aktins country music over this newer stuff……

      Like

      • cameron232 says:

        I LOVED romantic SIMP music. I mean I ate that stuff up. Here’s one by a girl that I LOVED as a boy.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        I mean I loved the song, not the girl from The Jets.

        Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Straight out of LA….spring 1989. This lady right here. I had a big thing for her. Loved her work during this period. My friends in college would razz me for liking here….big hit spring 1989…my freshman year in college. Not really simping though

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Expression of dwelling on unrequited love is probably the ultimate in SIMP-ing.

        Like

      • Lexet Blog says:

        When you look back at old country music, you will see how blue pilled most of it always was. There are the rare based-pilled songs like copperhead road, but the only real “red pilled” songs are ironically by women and are about cheating.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Yep, Lexet. Some of my favorite old country songs (I only like OLD country songs) are Blue-Pill-Sucka songs.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Here’s a rare Redpill song by Slim.

        Alpha with options can’t decide between three girls he “loves” – each helps satisfy his craving for variety.

        That’s homo sapiens, folks.

        Lots of chick pics in the video. Whether that’s good or not is up to you.

        Liked by 1 person

  14. Lastmod says:

    Well….he’s some good “country comedy” by the late and talented Archie Campbell with Roy Clark…from “Hee Haw” (1969-1990). The hilarious “that’s good / that’s bad / how come” sketch; listen to the end. it’s “that’s good”

    Probably from the early / mid 1970’s

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      My grandparents watched HeeHaw. All I remember is a girl with pig tails and cleavage.

      And corny jokes in the corn field.

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        yeah the “sort of dirty” jokes out in the corn field. At my Aunt’s house we would watch it growing up if we were visiting. She had a working dairy farm. Since it was a “polish” household, if we were there and the “Bobby Vinton Show” was on…we would watch that. Americas favorite Polack well, until Pope John Paul…..and I certainly went nowhere with my last name 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lastmod says:

        I always remember on “Hee Haw” had a very large lady with too much make-up….looked like she walked out of John Waters film from the 1980’s…….even back then I said to myself “that lady is huge”

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Pretty sure that was Lulu Belle. I think she was on The Dukes of Hazzard too. Boss Hogg’s wife. My grandma got Sorrell Books and James Best’s (Boss Hogg and Roscoe) autograph’s – they were at a Holiday Inn I believe.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Man that was a memory fail. Lulu Roman was the fat woman on Hee Haw. Peggy Rea played “Lulu Coltrane Hogg” Roscoe’s sister and Boss Hogg’s wife.

        Where did the “Belle” come from?

        Like

    • redpillboomer says:

      Good one! Remember this.

      Like

  15. Scott says:

    “Romantic Alpha”

    I am totally going to rock that.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Lastmod says:

    Going to see Dionne Warwick perform at the Saban Theater in Beverly Hills on October 2nd. Her orchestra will be the LA Chamber Orchestra (a portion of the LA Philharmonic, which I am pricing now for membership).

    Forget the 1980’s…and beyond. There was a time this woman was it. Not jazz. Not soul. Not R&B. Just herself. The sweeping orchestrations, musical style by mostly Burt Bacharach made this woman famous. Fitting of international architecture, jetsetting airport lounges sleek but tasteful fashion…….the Dionne Warwick sixties material is timeless. I have a great seat right down in the orchestra, and I paid extra for a VIP hour before the show in the lounge. Its gonna be a sight when my basic new, but basic VW Jetta will be valet parked as I am let out of in front of the theater. It will be an evening of a suit, class, and befitting an episode of ‘Mad Men’ from about 1964. I hope to that man here in the LA basin who says “oh going to Palm Springs fro the weekend to sit by the pool”

    As an audiophile, I enjoy all kinds of stuff….but this lady is a legend. Love the post-war era in the USA…..we were at our peak. We actually had some class still about us as people.

    Like

    • Scott says:

      The Mowtown stuff is where you lose me. Did you like ABC in the early 80s?
      (How to be a millionaire, Smokey Sings)

      Like

    • Lastmod says:

      I know many of the songs….but wasn’t my thing back then. I do have Breathes “How Can Fall” on 45 rpm in my record collection somewhere……just wasn’t my scene. I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing a Paul Young song or anything by Simply Red. That “holding back the years” song I really disliked then and now.

      Like

      • Scott says:

        Ha! Those are pretty stupid. I never could figure out how Paul Young slid into the alternative genre.

        I have been listening to a lot of late 70s stuff like Ultravox, Roxy Music and Generation X lately. Bryan Ferry was totally different back then.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        One day I will chart the music on like one of those libertarian political charts.

        “What is alternative” kind of thing.

        Simply Red is outside the lines. Lame

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I thought Poison Arrow (ABC) was catchy though. I’ll allow it.

        Like

    • cameron232 says:

      Mom and dad were into Motown. I liked to watch Video Soul on BET. 80’s R&B.

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        My dad was finishing up his stint in the USAF when Buddy Holly died (early 1959). That was it for him. He was stationed in South Vietnam when he got the news. My mother was more early sixties pop…Helen Shapiro, The Shirelles. Both my parents loved The Carpenters. I did take my mom to see Paul McCartney in 1990, she turned back into a crazy teenage girl watching them on “Ready Steady Go” in 1963 in the UK.

        I was a pretty big Sting fan in the late 1980’s. When I lived in West Germany as an exchange student…my older host brother Frank (he was 22 at the time) took me to see one of his fav groups…..”The The” with front man Matt Johnson. Very 1980’s British alternative / underground. They had a huge following in West Germany. We had a great time. Tiny basement club full of German guys on a cool gloomy West Berlin night

        . No women were there. It was a guys band….though after the show there were fights for the fact most realized there would be no “machen aktion” after the show….so in German tradition…fists started to fly. Place got smashed up pretty good. That was spring 1987. This track is when the place began to boil over as grew…..

        Liked by 1 person

  17. Scott says:

    What I consider to be like the left and right “edges” of alternative are, on one side Roxette and Information Society (and that’s pushing it) and on the other side Joe Jackson and the Stray Cats. Cross outside those boundaries and you are in no-go territory for me.

    Like

    • Scott says:

      Right in the middle of that spectrum are Duran Duran, Erasure, Depeche Mode. Nice and comfy. You get the idea.

      Like

  18. Lastmod says:

    Joe Jackson is probably one of the most underrated of the “new wave” and “early alternative” that era. He mentioned once that his career tanked after people saw him on MTV (was not considered good looking). Moved back to the UK after decades of living in NYC (he loved the USA so very much and NYC) after the smoking ban went into effect just about everywhere

    Like

    • Scott says:

      Joe Jackson is a true artist for sure

      Liked by 1 person

    • Scott says:

      I think I had heard or read that about him and MTV

      But I mean he is pretty weird looking so…

      Like

      • Lastmod says:

        Well……. David Lee Roth once said in the mid-1980’s, “Rock and music critics today like Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson because most rock and music critics LOOK like Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson.”

        Like

  19. RIchardP says:

    Country music. I didn’t care for. Until I discovered this guy, and his sidekicks.

    Dad’s and daughters: It’s not supposed to be that way. You’re supposed to know I love you.

    Ummmm – nope.

    Love is a verb. It doesn’t exist unless dad shows up. In his daughter’s life. In his son’s life. In his wife’s life. Accompanied by talk. They won’t know you love them unless you show up in their lives. They won’t know what you think unless you tell them. They won’t know how to live their lives unless you give them direction.

    Written by Willie Nelson, to his daughter. Dads – it’s probably best not to be like Willie Nelson in this song. Or you will likely end up with what he ended up. Sounds an awful lot like regret. <It’s not supposed to be this way. You’re supposed to know I love you.

    Just about the most horrid words any dad could ever hear – from anybody in his family – I think.

    Just show up. Over and over and over again. And tell them what you think.

    And then he sings this to his wife, sitting beside him. Probably not the kind of talk a man should be doing when he shows up for his wife. At least not for the christian guy.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. RIchardP says:

    I said,

    “Just about the most horrid words any dad could ever hear – from anybody in his family – I think.”

    The “horrid words” I meant would be those words from daughter, son, wife that prompted dad’s response: “It’s not supposed to be that way. You’re supposed to know I love you.”

    Like

  21. Lastmod says:

    Oh, I really dislike the early 1980’s remake of “Tained Love” by Soft Cell. I collect records, and I have the 45 rpm….. but this 45 had six different issues and re-issues between 1983-1985 with different picture sleeves as well as at least five 12″ DJ / club mix singles. Talk about overkill!

    I dared ONCE made the mistake in California by dissing Blondie…… Everyone loves her… not the band….. only her! Deborah Harry. I was attacked by everyone at this party; “She is the first punk rock girl! She invented New Wave! She was a female in a boys world… She is sooo talented!”

    Let’s set it straight. She did not invent rap (as many claim she did). She was not “punk” and she was not amazing. One hit album with two hit singles…… The rest of them were awful. Blondie has about “five” greatest hits albums with all the same songs, two of which were hits. One of those hits, “The Tide Is High”, was by a Jamaican two-tone group in the 1960’s. She didn’t even write it. I don’t understand why she is popular. She isn’t even from California. She is from New York. Big whoop… She worked at “Max’s Kansas City” in NYC as a waitress and “kind-of / sort-of” knew Warhol’s entourage. By the end of the 1970’s that wasn’t bragging rights anymore.

    Yeah, we “know her” and every reunion tour since 1983 wasn’t the original lineup. It’s “her”.

    Hardly talented. Hardly amazing.

    Like

  22. Lastmod says:

    Robyn Hitchcock is one of my favorite alternative rockers of the 1980’s. Very English. This track is from 1985. “I’m Only You”

    And here it is live in 2019, at the Hop Monk Tavern in Sebastopol (Sonoma County). I am sitting to the right of the camera. Very intimate show,

    Like

    • Jack says:

      The thing I really like about 80s (and some 70s) music is the authenticity expressed with crisp, clean precision. It’s “real” in the sense that it’s not computer synthesized — real artists with real talent playing real instruments to a real audience.

      They also had some visually stunning stage performances that don’t compare to anything in the rest of music history.

      Liked by 1 person

  23. Lastmod says:

    Hey I am so down for a Zoom meetup in the future with anybody here…..

    Liked by 2 people

  24. cameron232 says:

    Since I’m assuming “nuf’ said” means STFU, I’ll add my already typed comment here, where serious topics aren’t a drag on the SS fun – seriously.

    If something’s a “screen”, even a rudimentary one, then you can’t say this something means very little.

    The basic issue is that fewer men meet women’s “screen” (for attraction) than women meet men’s screen (for attraction.)

    I’d bet my right nut that if any of the ladies’ auxiliary members (honorary membership given to Mychael) had married John Cena they’d “have sex with him every day he’s home”, he’d “crank their engine 99/90 % of the time”, etc. even if hubby John didn’t stand up to China in a video. Again, my point made earlier today in this thread. Your within-marriage reality is a function of your alpha traits and independent of (if not negatively correlated with) how “loving” a husband you are.

    https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2021/09/14/matriarchal-madhouse/#comment-189985

    Like

  25. elspeth says:

    Cam, I actually left a comment over at that link, but it’s in mod. Since I agree with Liz quite strongly, I’m going to try and replicate it.

    I feel somewhat responsible for contributing to that notion; must be super duper hot and bothered with the guy at the first meeting. Because, I was very immediately attracted to my husband, and I have always been up front about it. However, I didn’t act on it even though I was afforded the opportunity. It was nearly 10 months before we went out. Why? Because I didn’t think it would serve me well to just jump in to something with him head first.

    We had many casual conversations as our paths crossed over those 10 months (and more than a few not-so-casual conversations). I had a decent sense of what kind of man I was dealing with before I went there with him. No, he wasn’t a perfect man, but he had plenty going for him besides good looks.

    I have known quite a few women who were “crawl over hot coals” attracted to their husbands, and the marriages failed. Among those women are former SILs, but not just former SILs. In one case, despite the white hot initial attraction, over time she wasn’t feeling him like that anymore, and because he had strong need for validation that way, and he was attractive enough to have options, he started acquiring that validation from other women.

    I recently ran into a woman I was in a PTA with several years ago. I always thought she was a really great wife, she fawned over her husband, and she was very cute. Had a way of calling her husband “my man” that was very endearing. When I ran into her I knew immediately that her energy wasn’t what I’d remembered. When I asked her how she was, the damn kind of broke and she said her husband had left her and married her cousin. How awkward and terrible it all was, and she had done all she could to keep him happy. Life is messy, and marriage requires layers of maturity and understanding beyond eros, even though I know eros is very important.

    All that to say, despite having strong attraction to my husband, if that was really the foundation on which the longevity of our marriage rested, we wouldn’t have made it. That’s a fun and romantic version of love, but it’s also a very immature version. You have to have more than that. And if I hadn’t taken the time to get to know my not yet husband better, or had recognized in him some sort of deal breaking deficiency, his attractiveness wouldn’t have been enough.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Elspeth,

      I have somewhat deemphasized the you-need-white-hot-attraction-from-2-microseconds view in many comments, in the process poking a bit at my fellow men and risking their (online) camaraderie (it’s a man thing). That’s not nothing to a guy who doesn’t have a lot of real life male friends I can open up to.

      I’m not shocked a woman of faith could control herself for 10 months even with an attractive man.

      I absolutely acknowledge that crawling over coals is not sufficient (nor even necessary in all cases). Look at Scott’s ex. She saved herself for several years while he had fun (saved herself in this day and age). That’s strong attraction.

      I don’t know about the not feeling it anymore SILs. Women want a lot. Some more than others. Scott’s ex.

      “I know eros is very important.”

      We agree. I absolutely think eros is not everything. If it were, every woman with an attractive husband, every man with an attractive wife would be happy. But it’s very important. My contention is that female “eros floor” is higher than male “eros floor.” The average male has more eros for the average woman than she has for him. How could it be the other way. Eros is who you’d instinctively want to make a baby with.

      You’re also of more faith and much higher intelligence and conscientiousness than most people. Like I told Liz in the other post. Yes, I believe you’d have picked up on a deal breaking deficiency.

      Yes, smart, conscientious women and women and faith can look past good looks.

      I don’t deny any of this.

      It seems like Liz is bordering on saying attraction doesn’t matter much now. But she and I are probably talking past each other and don’t understand or something.

      Like

      • elspeth says:

        You give me too much credit. I was a young woman of marginal Christian faith. At best. It was self-preservation, and not faith that inspired the caution I exercised when I met my husband.

        God was not on my radar screen at that point in my life. I was churchgoing, yes. And a believer, yes. But I would be lying if I claimed that I hesitated because I didn’t want to sin.

        Liked by 1 person

      • elspeth says:

        I think Liz is saying (well, has said explicitly), that it could be a young man’s undoing; to believe that a woman’s instant on fire attraction and initiation of pursuit is his key to marital longevity. And I agree with her. 100%.

        Many relationships and marriages, built on the fire of eros and blinding the man (or woman) to other red flags, have crashed and burned. I’ve seen it happen.

        I often think of Jane Bennett from the book Pride and Prejudice. She was totally in love with Mr. Bingley but had the hardest time revealing her emotions. It almost cost her dearly. I was something of a Jane Bennett (temperamentally; I wasn’t as beautiful). It could have cost me if SAM wasn’t so totally intrigued by me.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:
      • cameron232 says:

        Oh yeah you’ll get no argument from me on marriage where there’s just eros. Necessary but insufficient condition.

        Like

    • cameron232 says:

      My simple summary. Eros matters as you say. Average guy has more eros for average girl than she has for him. Her eros is more discriminating. This is a common impediment to happy marriages. Not the only one.

      Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      “…and because he had strong need for validation that way…”

      Elspeth, something I wanted to address. I think most men have a strong need for that type of “validation.” This is intrinsic to being male. Obviously the physical release. But male feelings of being loved, valued, desired, appreciated, ….. etc. are going to be tied to sex for most (not all) men.

      The vast majority of men are going to fall into two categories. 1. Need the physical release. 2. Need the physical release plus what you call the “validation” i.e. the emotional (for men) part of sex.

      Among type 1 are probably a disproportionate number of pump ‘em and dump ‘em types.

      For men who are type 2 a lack of sex is going to make them feel “rejected.”

      BTW, Matt Cochran (a Lutheran) had a pretty good post about the “need” for sex recently.

      http://matthewcochran.net/blog/?p=1906

      Like

      • elspeth says:

        In my admittedly limited experience, strong, “alpha” husbands who are geared toward monogamy -and I confidently include my husband as one of those types of men- need to be validated in that way.

        The sphere often says that a man doesn’t need his wife to love him more than he needs her respectful submission. In my experience, they need both. My husband would be undone if he heard some of the stuff women say on a site like The Transformed Wife (before they disabled comments): “Being ‘in love’ is not the most important thing” or “I love my husband as Scripture commands but I am not ‘in love’ with him and that’s okay because I do my duty”.

        If I ever uttered those words, “not in love”? I shudder at the fallout. And yes, that is most readily expressed by unfettered sexual access, but that access based solely on a sense of duty with no emotional connection attached? Not gonna work. Not his idea (nor mine) of what a marriage should be.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Yeah, there’s this issue with interpreting the commands to, respectively “love” (husbands) and submit (wives). I actually value being loved by my wife a great deal. I value respect too. I am supposed to, doctrinally, value submission but at a gut level I hold it in lower regard.

        I agree that a lot of Christian women have a sterile, “duty” love. I’ve read those comments too and I wouldn’t marry if I thought that’s all I would get. Fortunately I got more. I know it’s our template for interpreting things around here but I think that’s a sign of low attraction quite often. What can the women do? They can’t force feelings that aren’t there? I guess they can fake it.

        I agree that men can and do feel love beyond just sex. The problem with the “love languages” model is it assumes people just have one. In reality there’s probably a rank order of them all for most people. I don’t value her buying things for me much. I like physical, words, time together.

        Like

      • elspeth says:

        “Yeah, there’s this issue with interpreting the commands to, respectively “love” (husbands) and submit (wives). I actually value being loved by my wife a great deal. I value respect too. I am supposed to, doctrinally, value submission but at a gut level I hold it in lower regard.”

        My husband’s gut level (I’d call it his default setting) is a little different from yours, but on the rest of it, pretty much the same.

        <

        blockquote>”I’ve read those comments too and I wouldn’t marry if I thought that’s all I would get. Fortunately I got more. I know it’s our template for interpreting things around here but I think that’s a sign of low attraction quite often. What can the women do? They can’t force feelings that aren’t there? I guess they can fake it.”

        I don’t have an answer for that, although I strongly believe that there is a path and course of action that can spark genuine emotions if there was ever anything genuine there to begin with. I have a real life example.

        Several years ago SAM and I kept getting our wires crossed. Even the best marriages have seasons when communication is difficult. It was 2006, actually. I’ll tell you how I know that for sure.

        That year, there was a British singer who made something of a splash with her first album (do they still call them albums, LOL?). Her name was Corrine Bailey Rae. Somehow I came across her name, liked her sound, and bought the CD. One of the songs was a single titled “Trouble Sleeping”.

        It totally took me back to what it was like for me as I was wrestling with my feelings for this man and what, if anything, I was going to do about it. All the way down to the fact that after having run into him or having had a conversation with him, I would have the hardest time getting some sleep because he kind of haunted me.

        Whatever I was mad about that day instantly dissipated. I’m sure I had occasion to get mad again at some point, but that day…

        If we’re operating under the premise that most women have never had an infatuation experience period with their husbands, then okay. Fair enough, but I believe most do.

        All healthy forward progress is built on the foundation what came before. So what most people call “lack of attraction”, I call “hardness of heart”.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        “…what most people call “lack of attraction”, I call “hardness of heart”.”

        Yes, and those who are hard of heart fail to recognize this. Part of the “hardness” is being so used to worldly standards and appearances (e.g. bimbofication), that something or someone who is truly holy appears to be boring, laughable, naive, ridiculous, simple, or “goody-two-shoes”. In August, we had a few posts that point to this — how women get sucked into these standards. But the same is true for men too. Cultural submersion teaches men to only be attracted to bimbos. It is an identification with the world that produces a hardness of the heart, and a blindness to true relationship potential. (I know, because I was like this years ago.)

        Liked by 2 people

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Elspeth – Me and Mrs. Apostle had a version of a “hardness of heart” conversation a couple days ago. For me, it is attitude and approach that matters because that is a window into her heart towards me and marriage. Just going along because it is what she is supposed to do but having a bad attitude about it is practically worthless to me.

        Liked by 3 people

    • cameron232 says:

      I only prefer submission on matters I think are important – it’s almost always issues with the children. I don’t care if she makes brocolli or Brussels sprouts. When she doesn’t submit to me (it’s ALWAYS the passive resistance of not following through -she never tells me “no”) it angers me because she’s taken 51% of the vote and now rules the house. Democracy of 2 don’t work. I don’t enjoy telling people what to do – “leader” is not my temperament.

      Liked by 1 person

      • elspeth says:

        “I only prefer submission on matters I think are important – it’s almost always issues with the children. I don’t care if she makes broccoli or Brussels sprouts.”

        I thought that went without saying…

        Submission is only ever an issue when it’s a matter of importance for most couples. You’re falling into the trap of feminists, envisioning some guy lording over his wife, micromanaging what she cooks and antagonizing her with minutiae. What man has time for that???

        If I’m making Brussels sprouts and my husband prefers broccoli, he’ll just say, “Can you make me a serving of broccoli, too?”

        It’s a rare occurrence, but things like that have happened. It takes like 5 extra minutes. I don’t feel put out by it.

        This sounds “transactional”, but there are few things I ask my husband to do for me or get for me that he won’t indulge. The least I can do is sauté a few florets of broccoli, LOL.

        When I wanted to spend $200 dollars to buy genuine leather corset style belts from an artisan Etsy chick from Eastern Europe for instance, he didn’t even blink. That’s money he worked hard for. I can cook the broccoli.

        It’s all about attitude, Cam.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        There may very well be controlling men and men who like to “submit test.” I’m a pretty benign ruler and a pick your battles sort of guy. I don’t care even about her spending (which tends to err of the side of indulging the children – she’s a generous hearted person). That’s all I mean. She sees Christian women who claim their husbands tell them e.g. don’t breastfeed. Can’t imagine that.

        Like

      • elspeth says:

        I spend plenty on the kiddos, but we don’t have any little kids anymore, so it’s mostly extracurricular stuff that eats up their portion of my “extra” spending. I tend to overinduge them as well, which is why he indulges me at this point. He actually said, “You don’t ask for much, so go ahead”, when I ask for something like that, which I considered extravagant. That’s why I asked for permission. If it were just a $19 Target belt, I could’ve just bought it without ever mentioning it to him at all.

        The approval for that particular item was as much about his preferences as indulging me. My momma blesssed me in such a way that I have kept a fairly small waist over the years and SAM likes the wide belts that accentuate that. One of the three major areas where he puts a constant demand on me is to look good: “I take good care of you, so I expect you to look like it.”

        My point is that a healthy man need not engage in “submission tests” or just picking nits to prove he is the boss. Too often, even RP men such as yourself immediately feel compelled to say, “I’m not that guy, stomping around, barking orders, and micromanaging.” What that says to me is that you view men, who have an expectation that their professed Christian wives live out the doctrine, as ogres stomping around barking orders.

        Hearth and I discussed this recently since we determined that our husbands are so similar that we joke they are “brothers from another mother”. I asked her if she ever recalls him saying the word “submit” to her, because my husband has never said that to me. And she said, “Nope. He’s not like that. He just walks in headship.”

        That doesn’t make them oppressive ogres. Just men of a different temperament. And that’s okay.

        Gotta run. Been fun Cameron. Enjoy your weekend and try to stay cool!

        Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Nova said that most people end up marrying someone they have SOME i.e. non-zero attraction to. What your paragraph after the video suggests, Elspeth, is that the foundation of infatuation/attraction you have to build on is stronger than most people’s. A man that haunts you after each encounter, despite your mixed feelings (which I assume were “is this wise”) and your “can’t sleep” – most people don’t have this level of feelings to fall back on when times are tough.

      Like

    • cameron232 says:

      Elspeth, comment for Monday if you’re offline.

      SAMs words: “….so I expect you to look like it.” Most husbands would be divorced or sexless if they said that. My wife’s put on more weight than you have. I’ll try that sometime. Alpha male can make known his demand for a slim wife. Noted.

      LoL! The guys would probably call me purple pilled. I don’t think SAMs an ogre. He’s like my maternal grandpa — also grew up in constant fistfights, was stabbed, stabbed someone. My point is that the feminist stereotype of the ogre isn’t even true with most of us headship guys.

      Hearthie’s man and SAM haven’t even used the word “submit” because as natural alphas they aren’t even conscious of it. They get it because of their innate traits. Again, men are rewarded within marriage based on innate qualities, not how loving or godly they are.

      Like

      • Elspeth says:

        Your wife has birthed 8 kids, and one quite recently. Of course it’s hard to stay thin. Very few modern women have more than 3 kids, let alone 8.

        I was still pretty heavy up until our youngest (now 13) was 3 years old. But my husband was very gracious and forgiving of that weight so long as I kept my hair fixed, dressed in flattering clothing, etc. His maxim is about more than just pounds.

        For the record I am not slim. Statuesque maybe, bit not thin. I’m tall and the admittefly, the extra weight falls in more forgiving ways, but not thin.

        In fact I have recently, grudgingly accepted that my only way over the plateau hump is to return to running. It’s going well so far.

        I will say that by the time your youngest is 5 or 6 (assuming no more babies), you should be able to encourage your wife to get into shape without risking sexlessness or some other wrath.

        I don’t understand why that would be offensive.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        “Of course it’s hard to stay thin.”

        Yes it is.

        “But my husband was very gracious and forgiving of that weight so long as…”

        The entire frame of your marriage, his and yours is so very different . The idea a wife would find her husband “gracious” and especially “forgiving” for holding too much weight (on condition of doing other things he wants). Do you know how unusual that is even among Christians? Combination of alpha male, your reaction to alpha male and your way above average faith (see I give YOU credit too not just SAM).

        “I don’t understand why that would be offensive.”

        Sure because it doesn’t offend you, you don’t understand. Most women are offended because they don’t value their man enough to think he deserves a thin or even non-obese wife and when he has to nerve to even hint he expects that well…..

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        “He doesn’t love me as I am.”

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Man my writing is downright awful. Let’s try that again.

        “The idea a wife would find her husband “gracious” and especially “forgiving” for tolerating her holding too much weight (on condition of her doing other things to make herself attractive to him based on his preferences).”

        Like

      • Elspeth says:

        It doesn’t offend me because I don’t want to be fat. I appreciate the external accountability. It helps me. When life is overwhelming or busy (like now), I’ll reach for the chocolate. Having someone coach me away from that -for free! and because he loves me- is a win win.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        There’s almost no person, certainly not a woman, who wants to be fat. They are still offended. It’s not the “don’t want to be fat” that causes offense or non-offense.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Red Pill Apostle says:

        Elspeth – If you are already actively strength training, ignore the rest of this comment.

        “In fact I have recently, grudgingly accepted that my only way over the plateau hump is to return to running. It’s going well so far.”

        As someone who competed in distance running I can say that this will only take you so far (pun intended). Starting in my late 20s a shift to strength training as my primary exercise and cardiovascular activity, like running, as my secondary exercise has been better at yielding my desired results.

        Like

      • Elspeth says:

        Yes, Cam. I know that no one wants to be overweight. I was making the point that I am willing to have my husband hold me accountable if that’s what it takes for me to stay on a healthy path.

        @RPA: Yes, I strength train although probably not as hard as I should. I need to ramp that up.. Historically, the one thing that has made a difference for.me when it comes to moving the needle is jogging.

        Husband actually likes my current figure quite a lot. However, we both recognize that the older we get the more important it is to go the extra mile health wise, which means I have to do what is required to get rid of these few extra pounds. Well not a few. Actually 24.

        If I was 5’4″ it would be an entirely different scenario. We would both see it differently, I’m sure.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Most beta male churchian’s wives would be offended if the husband suggested she lose weight. The benefit of an “accountability partner” wouldn’t override her anger response. My theory is that you’re not offended similarly because of the deep level of submission you’re under. My theory is that this is a function of SAM’s qualities AND your faith. So the usual – your relationship is atypical (which is wonderful).

        Like

      • thedeti says:

        Most men and women don’t have, and will NEVER EVER have, relationships like SAM and Elspeth. Her belief that everyone can have such relationships is fantasy at best.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Mychael is curvier now than in the beginning. 4 babies in 10 years (in her late 30s/early 40s) will do that to a girl.

        No cottage cheese or flab, just curves that weren’t there before. And I love it.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Scott says:

        Super skinny girlfriend picture 2006:

        https://ibb.co/zVp3K44

        Current:

        https://ibb.co/6rhG7zb

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Lovely lady and very sweet – you hit the wife jackpot.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        Word

        Liked by 1 person

  26. anonymous_ng says:

    You know, one thing I’ve been wondering about for a few years is the impact of SSRIs on marriages.

    When my ex and I started dating and were first married, we had sex all the time, and she regularly got her happy ending also. Once she started taking SSRIs, I’m not sure she ever again had an orgasm.

    Now, I’m not saying that orgasm is the be all, end all of life, or that a happy marriage can’t be had without them. But, I can’t imagine how much I’d enjoy sex without them.

    Also, I’ve always wondered how much the hormonal release etc. from orgasm helps to smooth over the bumps and friction of life.

    IDK. It’s just something I’ve thought about in regards to my marriage.

    Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      “Also, I’ve always wondered how much the hormonal release etc. from orgasm helps to smooth over the bumps and friction of life.”

      Orgasm only, not all that much, or teenage boys would be the calmest, least drama free people on the planet. Sex with your spouse on the other hand, does wonders to help smooth the bumps of life, especially for men. When the husband is more patient, thoughtful, etc. then the wife tends to feel more appreciated and loved. At this point you have two people giving each other a little more grace and that makes life easier in many ways.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) work to increase the amount of serotonin circulating in the brain. Serotonin helps the user feel less depressed and anxious, but too much serotonin may inhibit a person’s sex drive and make it harder to experience sexual pleasure. Read this article for more information.

      Interestingly, some SSRIs, including fluoxetine and paroxetine, have been associated with hypersexuality in case studies. Wellbutrin and Sertraline have been documented to increase sex drive in certain individuals.

      I would conjecture that SSRIs, and/or the comprehensive effects of depression make sex less satisfying, perhaps by causing orgasm to become elusive. This condition increases the persons desire for sexual satisfaction, and thereby a greater sex drive is expressed.

      Like

  27. Elspeth says:

    Idiosyncrasies:

    He is always running late and it can create tension, especially when it makes me late.. My dad was military. Fill in the blanks.
    I try to read his mind and it bugs him.
    I’m cheap, and it sometimes bugs him.
    He’s a picky eater who like variety. That sometimes means more time in the kitchen for me.
    I have to remind him that sometimes it’s not cool for me to have the top three buttons open, 🙃.

    Like Liz notes…all relationships have their Idiosyncrasies. Not one is perfect.. What we have managed to do is hit a stride and settle into each other well.

    But room for improvements exist.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Scott says:

      Yeah but what if you have top three buttons undone, AND a hairy chest, gold chains and a Mustang GT?

      Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        …..and you reek from too much cologne and your first name is “Vinnie.”

        Liked by 2 people

      • elspeth says:

        Eww Scott. That’s another couple and another class of folks, LOL. I just sometimes wonder if the picture I paint is one of unrealistic perfection, when it’s not like that. I keep thinking, people should know better, y’know?

        I don’t have to tell you this Scott, but once you throw any kind of blended family scenario into the mix (and I’ve always been open about SAM having had a kid before the 5 he has with me), that any notions of a perfect life and perfect marriage should immediately be tempered.

        We do have a great marriage, and a nice life, and we enjoy each other thoroughly in all the ways, but we’re human. He’s human, with weaknesses and all the things life everyone else.

        I just wanted to make that clear. Hence, the idiosyncracies. I like that word.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Anonymous says:

        Was at the barber shop in Glendale on Saturday Scott… Most of the men in there fit your description (young and old). Too much cologne on as well…… Yes, it was an Armenian barbershop.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        Yes! Armenians in Glendale are awesome!

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        OK I do have a lot of hair on my chest but I don’t wear gold or cologne and I drive a Toyota.

        Liked by 1 person

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