Exhuming the Masculine Frame

Men develop maturity by exercising frame and emphasizing personal value.

Readership: Men; Christian Men;
Author’s Note: This post is based on an email conversation between Jack and RedPillApostle.
Length: 1,530 words
Reading Time: 5 minutes

It’s A-OK to be a Man!

Writing the post, Avoiding the Broken Window Effect (2020-07-21), has given me a new mindset about the role of men. Before, the topic of intersexual relationships seemed like a giant conundrum filled with numerous dilemmas, all having very few, and very difficult actionable remedies. (I’ve written numerous posts about these.) Now, it all seems so ridiculous to me, even laughable. I mean, once you understand women’s nature and their game, it becomes apparent that they’re all mixed up and they lie about everything all the time. That’s harsh to say, but actually, it is even worse than that.  They actually believe the words coming out of their mouths are the truth.  It’s delusional! (Solipsistic is the word commonly used around the Manosphere.)  So it is ridiculous to adopt their viewpoint with any sincerity, much less try to build a functioning action plan on that.

I think the big shift in my perspective came from defining a clear boundary between women’s viewpoints and men’s viewpoints. Understanding things from a male viewpoint is much easier to reconcile with God’s order and how “it’s supposed to be”. & But once we start seriously entertaining women’s viewpoints, everything falls apart and turns into a confusing, incalculable quagmire. Actually, I’ve known this for a long time (for example, see this post), but I’m still working out the details. I guess I am somewhat surprised that I still haven’t got this down yet.  Obviously, Blue Pill conditioning has residual effects that last for years.

Understanding things in this way has given me a new appreciation for the Biblical adage “husbands must love their wives” too. Blue Pill “love” (e.g. chivalry, being “nice”, pedestalizing women, and so on) is pretty hollow and powerless, but understanding how the perturbing nature of women is what constitutes the challenge to love one’s wife, especially when they’re being difficult (to put it nicely) breathes a new life of suffering into this commandment.

The Hidden and Undervalued Wealth of Men

Another thing that struck me while I was writing the Broken Window post is that men are sitting on a wealth of resources which most men seem unaware of, and that is… themselves! — their hands, their minds, their camaraderie, their commitment, their plans and dreams, their loyalty, their dependability, their hard work, their sacrifice… They are told that this is all worthless.  Women don’t recognize these treasures. They only recognize the fruits of these treasures that they have potential access to.  When a man recognizes some form of worthiness about himself, they are tritely told it doesn’t matter, as if it were a silly juvenile notion, and at the same time, they are taught to p!ss it all away for the benefits or conveniences of others. Within Christian circles, passages from the Bible are added to back this up, thereby laying a false-guilt trip on men if they don’t.

It’s somewhat of a game in life, to maximize returns for whatever you give of yourself. But these days, too many men are selling their souls for a bit of female excitement and (false?) hope. But men don’t need to do this.  They don’t need to offer their strength and the benefits of their intrinsic virtues to anyone they don’t want to. Men aren’t obligated to support and shelter women who are not under their covenant authority. If men established their covenant authority (e.g. Headship) before making transactions, then they would increase the chances of getting a fair return. Instead, men should be developing themselves by drawing boundaries and setting conditions – anything to maintain Frame and keep himself in good running order.

Know and Defend Your Worth and Value

The previous post, Elements of Emotional and Personal Maturity (2021-09-08), listed several aspects of the self, and how maturity and growth can be achieved by being conscious of one’s performance in each of these areas.  But there is more to it for men in particular. Deti described this as well as I could.

There’s something else that should be here, especially for men. It may be the sum total of self-esteem or self-respect or both.

Know your worth and value. Expect reciprocation from others.

Scott has said it elsewhere and I think it’s correct: Men are brought up to believe that no matter what they do or what they make of themselves, they’re worthless, especially to women and other people. Men continue to believe this even after they prove themselves worthy: Of employment, acceptance into a group, friendship, etc. Many men continue to accept substandard treatment from others even while those same people expect superior treatment from those men. Those men give a lot more than they get.

Men need to start understanding what they’re worth and what value they bring to relationships and to others. They need to take stock of who they are, what they bring, and what they built. They need to expect and demand that others reciprocate with like value. They need to expect from others the same high standards they expect of themselves. They need to remove from their lives other people who cannot or will not reciprocate. If a woman can’t or won’t reciprocate, can’t or won’t give him what he wants and needs, then to the curb she goes.

Stop apologizing. Remove the word “sorry” from your vocabulary. You do not owe anyone any apologies for wanting what you want and needing what you need, and for expecting others in your life to give those things to you.

Know your worth and value. Expect reciprocation from others.

In other words, men need to pursue the development of the self within and through the development of their own frame.  It’s up to small groups of men to recognize these treasures within themselves, and to help each other uncover, develop, maintain, and defend their personal wealth of identity in the form of masculine maturity.  Men need to support other men and back them up in difficult situations.

Case Study – Pulling Your Meatballs up by the Bootstrap

I have a couple good friends at church. I’ll call them Meatball and Bootstrap for this story, but they are real men.  (Meatball is jacked, and Bootstrap is tall and engaging.)  Meatball has a wife who is regularly contentious. On a couple instances, Bootstrap and I saw her talking to Meatball in a shrill voice – in church!  Bootstrap and I sauntered up to her while she was screeching shameful things about our friend.

When she noticed us staring at her, she got quieter and nervous. Bootstrap asked her, “Is that how Christian women should talk to their husbands in church?”

Indignant surprise.

I crossed my arms and added, “You seem to think ‘respect for your husband’ means that when you’re in church, you restrain yourself from *b!tch slapping* him across the aisle like you do at home.”

She looked at Meatball, looking for assurance and expecting him to rescue her, but he didn’t because my words hit home. Bootstrap looked at Meatball and then responded, “Is that true?!?”

Guilty silence.

Bootstrap was incredulous.  “You’re an embarrassment to all of us!  …to your children, to…  to your husband especially… and to everyone in this congregation!”

She countered, “THIS is a private matter, excuuuse meee!”

I said, “It’s not private when you tell the whole church.”

A few other words ensued, but eventually the shame of it all kicked in, and she started to break down. The way we stood by Meatball gave her the stern message that her choice of words, tone of voice, and behavior would not be tolerated in polite society. This situation happened once more after that, but never again.

Conclusions

Anytime male maturation is addressed, it should include a discussion of maintaining frame, because maintaining frame is the lynchpin of the male maturation process. Without it, life experiences that would otherwise contribute towards our maturation become a quandary of fits and false starts, and it doesn’t end so well.

I think one of the biggest sources of grief in society right now is that the male viewpoint has been subsumed into the female viewpoint, and now that this has been summarily accomplished, the core aspects of masculinity are being systemically dissected and extracted under feminist auspices. The general awareness that men have of their God-given covenant authority is so weak to non-existent, that what little they have is being stolen right out from under their not-so-noetic noses. Men need to band together and reconstruct the masculine world view, and it’s much better if this framework is exhumed from Biblical authority. Men’s Bible study groups are a good place to begin, but small groups alone aren’t sufficient to do this justice; it needs to be crowd sourced. It has to be a movement of the Spirit.

I see some secular groups of men doing just this. (For example, there is (1) The 21 Convention, and (2) The Red Quest, Red Pill Dad, and a couple others I don’t follow have some kind of cooperation going on off line.) In the Christian ‘sphere, Deep Strength and a few others have started RPChristians on Reddit and have had some success stories. At Σ Frame, I have invited several other men to join in writing posts. But again, progress is hard won and incrementally slow.

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Authenticity, Boundaries, Building Wealth, Charisma, Collective Strength, Confidence, Conflict Management, Discernment, Wisdom, Game Theory, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Influence, Introspection, Leadership, Male Power, Manosphere, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Military, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Organization and Structure, Personal Presentation, Relationships, Respect, Self-Concept, The Power of God. Bookmark the permalink.

47 Responses to Exhuming the Masculine Frame

  1. cameron232 says:

    Not central to the post but “they’re all mixed up” can be stated as Nova’s “their attraction equation is harder to solve” and their “lies” can sometimes reflect this (or can be solipsism, “left-unsaid-ism” (implicit communication), or genuine deception in individual cases).

    I like this post. I like the point about male camaraderie. Unfortunately it’s hard to overcome our instinct to compete with each other AND our Blue Pill conditioning. Bro’s before ho’s.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Elspeth says:

    Off topic for Cameron:

    https://www.thehealthyamerican.org/religious-exemption-letter

    Also, call The Liberty Counsel. A good friend of mine’s husband works for a Woke Behemoth, and through their legal counsel they helped him secure a religious exemption.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Lastmod says:

    I’ve read that a ton of men over 35 in many places / situations doesn’t have one man friend / buddy-roo / pally / or confidant to speak with. Most married men must default to their wife. Men who are single? No one is sure what they do….

    I really don’t have any friends. Sure, know a guy or two that I would hang with (they both live in Fresno) but they are not really “friends”, nor did I have this in church….. Sure, a “good show” about men being a “band of brothers” was talked up a lot….. but I really wasn’t close to any man in church, or had people I went camping with, or enjoyed the same hobbies as I did.

    It was just talk, that’s all.

    Then again….. I do have a bit of a strong / solitary nature and I kind-of always had this. As a kid I was constantly told, “You have to be your own best friend.” (It was the 1970’s.)

    I do think its important… but like the “Meet Cute”, it does get harder as a man gets older to find this kind of thing. Honestly though, in church all the men “loved football” and you might as well have called yourself gay and put on a dress if you didn’t like it…… The homo-erotic aspects of football always made me wonder… The coach slapping a guys butt as he goes out on the field… Terms like “tight end” and stuff like that… makes one wonder! 😉

    Liked by 4 people

    • feeriker says:

      I believe that in this day and age, the man who has close male friends — true friends whom he views as brothers — is a very, VERY rare man. Most men (myself included) are in the same boat you are.

      This is another (deliberate) result of the War On Men And Boys — destroying male bonding, and atomizing and isolating men in order to weaken their position in society.

      Liked by 1 person

      • rontomlinson2 says:

        e.g. in TV and film, close friendship between two men always seems to end in betrayal or disaster — reliable friendships are only depicted with or between women/gays/ethnic minorities.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. lastholdout says:

    Genesis 3:17 speaks clearly to men holding his frame and it is evident in the rest of scripture:

    “In addressing Adam, God lays out the consequences of his disobedience: “And to Adam He said, ‘Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, “You shall not eat of it,” cursed is the ground on account of you; in hard labor you will eat of it all the days of your life’” (Gen. 3:17). Note the reasons for the sentence He laid on Adam and all men. Eating the forbidden fruit is most often the focal point, but notice God’s explicit correction for listening to his wife. It complements what He just told Eve: submit to your husband. . . .”

    “Like Eve, women today are also predisposed to taking in Satan’s lies. Paul explicitly cites this in his letter to Timothy: “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, being deceived, fell into sin” (1 Tim. 2:14). And just as God faulted Adam for listening to his wife, He gave the husband the position and authority to help protect his wife from Satan’s lies. As the head (the center of reason), that is part of his headship—to resist listening to his wife’s improper rationalizations and correct her when she crosses the threshold of deception.”

    (From Desire at the Door: Uncovering the Biblical Marriage Foundations in the Postmodern Era)

    [Jack: I found this book on Amazon. It just came out in 2020. Lastholdout, have you read this book? Is it very good?]

    Like

  5. cameron232 says:

    I have not been close to any other man after dad died. I have guy friends at work but I don’t see them outside work ever. I tell you guys more than I tell any guy in real life. My wife would have to qualify as my best friend I guess but some things girls don’t understand.

    I hope my sons have each other if they don’t have male close friends. My two oldest boys live together.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. R O'Neill says:

    Jack,
    I agree it should begin from a scriptural perspective and the first item on the list is Red Pill. As you may know, the primary source nowadays for this issue points out that there is Red Pill “awareness” but Blue Pill “conditioning.” The idea is that Red Pill (a metaphor for males natural masculine strength, logic and authority) is something you have to wake up to, not be conditioned into, whereas the Blue Pill conditioning is the societal, cultural influence (conditioning) that leads (decent) men to repress their natural masculinity to please female’s interests, and thereby become a more righteous, fair and just individual. Discovering that this latter reality was based on a false premise is what releases men from the dungeon they consigned their masculine proclivities to up to that point.

    But to my original point, I submit to you that rather then Red Pill as a reference point, I would advocate the more scriptural and plain term which is “Dominion.” This is totally unrelated to “Dominion Theology.” Within this term is the concept of exuding effort to prevail, conquer, and rule. It is where the term “Dominate” comes from and is used in industry. (It is a word used to describe Google and its position in the internet world.) And few take note that Adam was created before Eve and that God gave the world to him, not Eve. She only possessed it as a marriage partner, not as a direct recipient. Together, they were to take dominion over creation, but Adam was still the ultimate ruler over all. In the first act of hypergamy, Eve decided paradise was not good enough and that she could do better and get a better situation, but in doing so she lost everything.

    This is the latent misery in the female’s sin nature, each generation of females maintains the same drive unless they either accept their lot in life (in the heathen world through coercion or threat of harm) or (in western society) are truly converted and totally surrendered. It is this discovery of fallen female nature that the “Red Pill” community has thrived on as the gemstone of wisdom that sets men free. However, as can be seen in the Scriptures, it was there all along (e.g., Sarah, Rebecca, Vashti, etc.). However, with the church supporting women’s suffrage in the late 1800s and early 1900s, it was only a matter of time before dominion was completely surrendered in the name of godliness, and only rogues and other crude, backwoods or otherwise unseemly characters disagreed.

    Then after womanism (i.e. feminism+) comes into full power, and men are legally brutalized by women (e.g., the pill, abortion, no fault marriage, divorce court, child custody, child support, affirmative action, “male chauvinist pig”, welfare for single mothers, favoring women owned businesses, diversity training, sexual harassment standards, “You looked at me”, “You wouldn’t look at me”, me too, “brassieres are oppression”, patriarchy, toxic masculinity, frivolous and false rape accusations, date rape, marriage rape accusations, sexless marriages and/or transactional sex, girls night out, Instagram, TikTok, OnlyFans, dubious accusations of domestic violence, emotional abuse, and protective orders, . . . finally something snaps and then enters an LA talk show host and the counter insurgency begins. And here we are today, wondering how to restore the order. Well, in one sense as a society, we cannot, but in our own personal lives and faith communities we can. I submit the way is to resume adherence to the original mandate. Take dominion…. Also known as the old paths.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. RichardP says:

    Re. The Hidden and Undervalued Wealth of Men This comment is directly related to the Christian male holding proper frame. That proper frame must rest fully on what is said in Genesis 2.

    In skimming through this thread, I clicked on the link that took me to Adam’s place and his comments about “should a husband ever unburden himself on his wife?” Adam’s response was a resounding “no”.

    Adam is wrong, in the main. At least for those who believe what the Bible says.

    See Genesis 2, Verse 20 and then Verse 18 (KJV)

    Verse 20: “…for Adam there was not found an help meet (Old English for ‘proper and fitting’) for him.”
    Verse 18: “And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet (Old English for ‘proper and fitting’) for him.”

    (That word “meet” is used elsewhere in the New Testament, where the context for that word is also ‘proper and fitting’.)

    Those two verses are God’s premise upon which this present world was created. God saw that it was not good for the male to be alone. Therefore, God created a female to be a proper and fitting help for him.

    How can she ever be the help she was created to be if he will not ever tell her what he needs from her? But — in her role as the help that God created for him, “helping” sometimes takes the form of her telling him about things he did not even know he needed. Telling him things he does not know (at a minimum, “You need to put it here if you want a baby”, or “I just saw our foreman stealing 5 of your horses.”) And him telling her that he needs her to go to Home Depot to get 5 8-foot 2x4s because he is short those many on building the new barn.

    God’s premise upon which this present world was created is “helped” and “helper”. He rules over her, with her being part of his “kingdom” that he is ruling over, husbanding (see the Old English definitions of husband, husbanding, husbandry), and her being the help she was created to be. We are thumbing our noses in God’s face when we deny what this looks like in real life when played out the way it was meant to be. And part of this “playing out” is going to be him unburdening himself to her. A man does not feel the need to “unburden” himself to anyone when he a.) knows what the problem is, and b.) know what the solution is (e.g., he is short 5 2x4s and needs her to go get them while he continues to work). The need to “unburden” only comes about because a.) he feels like there is a problem with something, but doesn’t know how to define it, or b.) he can define the problem, but doesn’t know well enough which of several alternative solutions is most likely to “solve” the problem. She was created to be his help. Helping him solve problems is one of her jobs, given to her by God. She can’t do that if he doesn’t “unburden” himself, give her a window into what he needs help with. (But I agree that this calls a man’s maturity into question if he is constantly ‘unburdening’ himself on her. He should have educated himself enough that the need to unburden himself (as I defined above) on her is relatively rare.

    Re. The Hidden and Undervalued Wealth of Men

    In many instances, that hidden and undervalued wealth of a man is a wife whose reason for existence (according to Genesis 2) is to help him — and he either doesn’t know that, or doesn’t want to accept it.

    Imagine the image of someone sitting behind the table with the sign learning against it: Prove me wrong (Genesis 2 wise).

    Liked by 1 person

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      Richard,

      Define ‘burden’ first. By unburdening do you mean give her directions so she knows how to help including making you aware of important details pertinent to exercising your vision for your life? I see this as cuing her in on the big picture of what you want so she can be the best helpmeet for you possible.

      Or, by unburdening do you mean telling her everything on your heart and mind: thoughts, fear, anxiety, doubts, happiness, sadness, etc? In no hierarchy of authority is there 100% disclosure from those in authority to those under authority. God does not tell us all He knows because we could not handle it, but He does tell us what we need to know in order to fulfill the purpose He created us for. This is one of the themes of Christian faith, that we know enough about God’s goodness to us to accept those parts we don’t know about. (I posit that not knowing certain aspects of what God knows is also part of His goodness to us.) I can think of many examples where disclosing more information than necessary could hinder the ability of one under authority to help.

      So it comes down to this regarding Genesis 2, does unburdening mean full disclosure or telling her what she needs to know to be the helpmeet he needs?

      Like

      • cameron232 says:

        I think the general conclusion was that unburdening yourself in a way that shows weakness might harm those whose wives’ attraction is already marginal. Do so at your own risk if this applies to you.

        If she’s not at all attracted and just sees you as emotional Kleenex BFF maybe unburdening is ok.

        Like

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      One more thought … the story of the fall is one of a head, God, not burdening those under His authority, Adam and Eve, with certain knowledge, good and evil, for their own good. He specifically told them that this knowledge would be a hinderance to Adam’s purpose of having dominion over the earth. Since Adam was eternal, it is logical to think that his purpose given to him by God was also eternal. The knowledge of good and evil, knowledge he was not supposed to have, got in the way of his purpose by causing death.

      Like

      • info says:

        @Jack

        “Asian men seem acutely aware of this need, and that they cannot be this way with the wife. (I would guess that this need stems from childhood trauma originating from their mothers.)”

        For whatever reason Japanese Men have a strong Mother Complex also interesting commentary from an opposition perspective:

        “Anecdotal evidence for the importance of women in Japan abounds. We looked last year at the Mazakon mother complex cult, the tendency of Japanese men to seek powerful and reassuring mother figures. Big breasts and older women are very popular. So, of course, are tiny-breasted Lolitas, but the two complexes interlock; Japanese men notoriously slow down sex with their wives when their children are born. At that point their wives become “Mother” (that’s literally what they call them) and sexual action is often taken to masturbation, the world of commercial sex, and schoolgirl fantasies. But even — especially — Lolita can be a powerful figure. If Takashi Murakami is right to see post-war Japan as an infantilized culture, who better than an infant to represent power? Especially a spoiled infant who’s able to control others with her pre-sexual charisma? It would, after all, be a misunderstanding of matriarchy to think that women could only be powerful by acting as men act. Domination by cuteness, or by maternal solicitude, are unapologetically female ways to dominate.

        Stearns presents sobering evidence that successful civilizations actually increase patriarchy, and increase the inequality between men and women over time. This has been the effect, for instance, of Islam and Arabic gender practices on India and sub-Saharan Africa, the effect of foot-binding China on neighbours like Japan and Mongolia, and the effect of European colonial influence on the Americas, India, Africa and Pacific Oceania. Only very recently has the West come to pride itself, rather hypocritically, on being a civilization “good for women”. Women’s rights have been used as a stick to beat the West’s enemies (the Taliban) with; when rich allies like Saudi Arabia oppress women, though, the West passes in silence. What we have to admit, though, is that we’re currently a very militarized civilization, very masculine, and more so this decade than last. If the 90s were about the globalization of consumer culture, the 00s have seen a re-militarization of the West.”

        https://imomus.dreamwidth.org/303773.html?thread=11829405

        What is good is perceived as evil by people like him.

        Liked by 1 person

      • info says:

        So guys what’s your comment on the psychosexual situation of Japanese Men?

        Like

    • Jack says:

      “Adam is wrong, in the main.”

      You have to consider the context. For the context Adam is addressing (the weak soppy husband dumping all his worries and fears onto his wife), he is right. A man shouldn’t do this. Within other contexts (e.g. the husband and wife are both sufficiently mature), it may be helpful and/or sanctifying. When “opening up to the wife”, it helps to be aware of the risks and benefits, and then gauge whether one outweighs the other. Strong discretion advised. In Asia, there is one kind of prostitute that doesn’t exist in the west — an older woman (usually > 50) who will kindly and patiently listen to men spill their guts and “comfort” him. Asian men seem acutely aware of this need, and that they cannot be this way with the wife. (I would guess that this need stems from childhood trauma originating from their mothers.)

      The topic of whether it is wise or necessary to confide in a woman was discussed in a series back in June. Some relevant links are here.
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2021/06/16/do-men-need-talk-therapy/
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2021/06/23/mens-fantasy-of-emotional-intimacy/
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2021/06/30/when-walking-on-eggshells-step-boldly/
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2021/07/02/answers-to-the-exit-questions-for-the-series-on-masculinity/

      Like

    • Jack says:

      “In many instances, that hidden and undervalued wealth of a man is a wife whose reason for existence (according to Genesis 2) is to help him…”

      RichardP, you are describing the ideal case scenario. Most men these days can’t even find a wife, let alone a good one. Back in King Solomon’s day, he said that such a wife is rarer than 1 in 1,000 (Ecclesiastes 7:28). It’s much worse now.

      “…and he either doesn’t know that, or doesn’t want to accept it.”

      Yes, in spite of my quibbles, your comment has great value because we must not forget how things are supposed to be. Men need to keep this in the back of their minds and hold this forward as a goal to work towards. It can give men insights as to what exactly they need to teach their wives to be.

      Like

  8. RichardP says:

    Since we are dealing with Genesis, lets also hit this head on.

    Sin has been defined as doing what God said not to do (Adam and Eve) or not doing what God says to do (Jonah).

    There is no precedent in the Bible for God punishing anyone for doing something that He did not speak about. Paul addresses this issue when discussing the issue of eating meat offered to idols. “If you think God said not to do it, then don’t. If you think God did not say not to do it, then eat with gusto. Bottom line — whatever you do, don’t do something that exhibits a willingness to disobey God.” (paraphrased)

    God never told Adam that he would die in the day he listened to his wife. The only thing that God told Adam he would die from was eating from the forbidden tree.

    Rhetorical devices are required in writing or story-telling, so that the audience can follow along and not get lost. In the Eden story, we are told that Eve ate the forbidden fruit because she listened to the serpent. How is the reader (of prose) or listener (of story-telling) to know why Adam ate the forbidden fruit unless the narrator tells us? And so he does. Adam did not eat of the fruit because he listened to the serpent. He ate of the fruit because he listened to his wife. We would not know that if the narrator did not tell us.

    We really need to get a hold of the fact that our condemnation comes from doing what God said not to do, or not doing what God tells us to do. We are not condemned because of doing something that God speaks nothing about (re. Paul and eating meat offered to idols). And there is nowhere in the Bible that God tells Adam not to listen to his wife. But we do have the part that I laid out in my post above — which is, God specifically created Adam’s wife to be a helper to him. Part of that help is going to be her telling him things he does not know. That fact alone puts the lie to those who claim Adam was punished for listening to the help that God created specifically for him.

    It is not enough for a man to have frame. That frame must be consistent with reality or it will lead to all kinds of unnecessary problems.

    Like

  9. redpillboomer says:

    I’m on a men’s team that meets once a week and there is some form of male bonding that goes on, albeit lightly, but better than nothing. The thing that strikes me in listening to the men is the impact of blue pill thinking. I mean, these guys, most all of them good dudes to one degree or another, have been impacted hard in one way or another by their blue pill mindset with women. The second and third order effects of a blue pill mindset are far and wide, astonishing at times.

    It makes me thankful I’m red pilled now. In addition I’m thankful that when I was blue pill, I somehow (God’s mercy) managed to avoid the blue pill rabbit holes many of these men have fallen down in during their lifetimes. I liken it to saying to myself, “I’ve been singed by the blue pill, they’ve been burned–second and third degree burns metaphorically speaking– in their mental and emotional well-being.” Astonishing what this “Blue Pill “love” (e.g. chivalry, being “nice”, pedestalizing women, and so on)” can do to a man’s life; AND many of them seek a solution within blue pill thinking. It’s like doubling down on dumb.

    I sometimes feel to get through to them, well you can in little bits and pieces SOMETIMES; but only occasionally, I have to subtly go into the equivalent of the red pill version of ‘See Spot Run.’ For example, I shared with the men what sh!t tests are after a couple of them kept failing them over and over again with either a wife or a girlfriend. You’d think I was some freakin’ oracle of knowledge when I enlightened them. One younger man who was getting sh!t tested coming and going by his wife, gradually put a stop to it by telling her NO or some other appropriate response needed when she did it. Amazing to him (not to me), it started to work, he started passing her tests, but not in the way she expected, but from a masculine frame. She pitched a fit at first, but gradually started to respond better and the number of tests went down. As an extra benefit, her tingles for him started to return, and he was enjoying that unexpected development from passing her sh!t tests in the right way. Made me feel good when he had that sly grin on his face when he said during one meeting, “I got really laid well last night after telling her no!”

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Ed Hurst says:

    This is quite conscious for me. I have long known that there are very few men in this world capable of tolerating my weirdness. I end up with levels of friendship, and particular areas of fellowship. In the military it was a lot easier, simply because of the huge pool of men to work from. But I was once a member of a church with several thousand showing up, and I found three men I could trust. Right now, my closest buddies are a small group of people online, and we have never seen each other.

    As I’ve said before, my wife is a covenant woman, and quite consciously so. It’s not that I hesitate to tell her anything, since she has never failed to understand and support me, it’s that she still understands like a woman, even if she is so close to the biblical ideal. I’d sacrifice a great deal to find even one male buddy who was ready to work with me here in meat space. That would be a treasure hard to describe.

    Yes, we need to stand up for each other publicly. We may not be able to tear down the false idol of feminism, but we could certainly make life more worth living by restoring at least the awareness of what it meant to be a man.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. cameron232 says:

    Two thoughts for today. #1.

    The thoughts expressed on these sites are far outside the mainstream. For me anyway this tends to produce feelings of isolation. It’s weird to be one person online and a different person (in the sense of not being able to say what you think) in the real world.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Red Pill Apostle says:

      Cameron – It all comes down to what you say and how you say it, but you can be the same person online and in real life. This is especially true among men. The key is to avoid any RP terminology and focus on actions.

      Liked by 5 people

    • Elspeth says:

      @ Cameron:

      Not all of my RL people agree with me (several of my women friends have quibbles for sure), but they all know that I loathe the term “servant-leader” and why it’s wrong. They know I’l that I dress the way my husband likes regardless of the herd. They all know that I don’t believe that America is systemically racist (and a few disagree). My family of origin is known to say, “Yeah, we know you’re “conservative”, with a tone. SAM’s family of origin is very apolitical; consciously so, not by happenstance.

      Which is why it wasn’t weird for my oldest kiddos to surpise me by inviting a few of the ladies to my big bash who were contributors or visitors to the old (and somewhat controversial) TC blog where Hearth and I and a few other ladies (and even a couple of men) were contributors.

      But I suspect that I am offered a lot more grace with respect to my views because I am female (note the vitriol Larry Elder and Voddie Baucham get compared to Candace Owens or Carol Swain). That, and I’m not a public figure. The people closest to me have a uch fuller picture of my life so they aren’t trying to evaluate a caricature.

      In your case, being a white man, I can totally appreciate the decision to temper how much you share about what you believe, especially during an era such as this one.

      retreats to silence again for a while

      Liked by 2 people

      • Elspeth says:

        Oh, shoot!

        Jack, please delete that comment, and this one. I didn’t think until after I published it to look up to see who was allowed to weigh in. And it’s not women.

        Please accept my sincere apologies.

        [St. Jacque de Morale: As it is written, the Penitent shall receive Mercy… Go and sin no more.]

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        @Elspeth,

        Wasn’t aware the readership field at the top of the post indicated no female commenters. Doesn’t bother me but not my blog.

        Men also have developed the habit (aided and encouraged by women) of shaming other men wrt the issues discussed here. “You must be insecure”, “a real man would….” It’s a coping mechanism for Blue Pill guys, which is most guys.

        Also, I’m in the weird position of being a non-controversialist with controversial opinions. I don’t really like to offend people — quite the opposite. It’s even worse in real life to do it.

        If E’s comment is deleted feel free to delete this too.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. cameron232 says:

    #2.

    Male camaraderie isn’t helped by the prevalence of anonymous LARPers and bullsh!t artists. I don’t necessarily mean here, just in general. Men can be prone to self inflation fisherman’s tales but there’s some world class bullsh!t artists and even entirely fake personas you encounter. Some genuine nutters.

    Scott and maybe Ed Hurst and Derek Ramsey are the only ones who use a verifiable identity. Actually Jason too. Just sayin’.

    I actually think these sites would be more effective if they used social media and required real identities. The downside is we’d be less open and truthful in some cases.

    Like

  13. Lastmod says:

    Oh its really only a matter of time before anonymous posting liked this “in theory” will be allowed. Sooner or later, everyone is geoing to have to pony up online by some new rule, decree, executive order in order to be able to send the red guards out to your home and torment, denounce and smear you in your ‘hood.

    The Libertarian in me is private…. but at the same time… if you have used a cellphone or have an email account……. webpages, banks, companies, businesses already know most everything about you from spending habits, who you call, and where and why……..

    It not that I am “bold” but I really just don’t care anymore, if they want to knock on my door at 3 am to escort me away, there is already crud-ton the government has on me anyway….. being anon online won’t really protect that.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Lastmod says:

      You know…… so good to be home. No plans this weekend. Just finished up the house. Washed / waxed all the floors. Bathroom done. Kitchen, put a bunch of records away. House is just “set” and now I am just gonna listen to music…… play a computer game…..

      Had a great physical btw as well. Doc said, “All is good”. Bloodwork showed this too, but he told me to “quit smoking”.

      Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      At this point I think the main concern is being made unemployable. They’re already trying to do that with the vax.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Joe2 says:

        Yes, using the vax to make you unemployable and also to make it difficult to buy and sell in the marketplace as being experienced in France with their COVID-19 health pass that is now required to access restaurants, cafes, cultural venues, sports arenas and long-distance travel. Protesters have denounced what they see as a restriction of their freedom claiming the French government was implicitly making vaccines obligatory.

        Liked by 1 person

  14. Scott says:

    WRT blue pill men shaming us

    The guys that are around our age and older are the worst.

    Ask some single mom HOW she became single.

    You will have to duck and run for cover from the older GenX and boomer blue pill guys. Its like a natural instinct to them.

    Liked by 3 people

  15. dpmonahan says:

    In spite of myself, I have close male friends and a pretty good national network of old friends I could fall back on if I ever had to move. I never really thought about how rare this is. I should be a lot more grateful.

    If you go through a formative experience with other men, even a crappy experience, it gives you an understanding, a secret nod — “This guy was there, he gets it.”

    Liked by 1 person

  16. whiteguy1 says:

    Cameron, I HIGHLY recommend finding some buds in meat space. One of my now closest friends I met at the gym, just a little over 4 yrs ago. I wound up being best man at his wedding. Having someone you can just sit and talk with is really needed. (And we are both SERIOUS introverts, and it doesn’t matter, we both know we can reach out to the other and just vent or whatever.)

    And I’ve had the great fortune to meet and have to my home one of our fellow bloggers here. Once I get clear of this darn divorce my goal is to meet as many of you men as I can IRL!

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      We used to belong to the YMCA, whiteguy. The other gyms around here are ones like Planet Fitness where you’re not allowed to move heavy iron. One YMCA was all old people and the other meatheads and slores.

      Liked by 2 people

      • whiteguy1 says:

        You should be able to find a ‘local’ gym, that isn’t affiliated with any corporate entity. My local gym is known bodybuilder gym with LOTS of juiced up guys (and some ‘gals’) I would say about 50-60% are this bunch (actual competitors), 20% are the typical beta guys just looking to get out of the house and ‘exercise’. 10% are current and former powerlifters trying to get stronger, and the rest are those who are there to see and be seen.
        My suggestion, get to a local gym find the people that are using log books. These are the most interesting types of people, the men seem to be cut from the ‘engineer’ cloth, a little ‘spergy’ but good peoples. I think that’s why I get along with them so well. It’s strength engineering 🙂 If you find one using a log book, just ask him a question about lifting or if he can help you with your form…Be ready to have your ear talked off!

        Fun note, last weekend I was doing deadlifts for my workout (it was a crap show, and I only got 1 of my 4 sets done) BUT there was a young man next to me working up to some big weights, this white kid was about 6’2″-3″, probably 230-240lbs. He had terrible form but he kept going up on the weights…It was kinda crazy. Until he loaded up the bar with 7 plates on each side…And pulled it off the floor 5 times! That was 675lbs and that bar had a big ol curve in it. Turns out the kid is only 23 yrs old, it was really fun to talk to him and get some background. So he’s half my age pulling twice as much weight as I am. Isn’t genetics grand? All I can say is I’m glad he’s not eating out of my refrigerator!

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        I pulled 475 for 5 reps several years ago at the Cocoa YMCA. I haven’t deadlifted for several years. May get a hex bar and start up again. Safer for your back. I have a bad habit of rounding

        Like

  17. Lastmod says:

    Home here is open to any of you who are swinging through the Los Angeles, CA area. I’m a bit of a cynic, but I am not a monster.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      It doesn’t help that I live 50 miles from where I work. Some guys I work with live on the opposite side of Florida.

      Like

  18. feeriker says:

    “I’m a bit of a cynic, but I am not a monster.”

    “The power of accurate observation is commonly called ‘cynicism’ by those who have not got it.” ~ George Bernard Shaw

    Liked by 5 people

  19. cameron232 says:

    I work in Orlando so if anyone is there I can meet up for lunch – usually easy to get away.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Ed Hurst says:

    Statistically, it is improbable that any of you would live or pass close to OKC, but here I am. And yes, Ed Hurst is my real name. And my email is posted on my blog interface at radixfidem.blog, so there you go.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Lastmod says:

    Bad lack of caffine headache today……..on my third cup of tea, starting to feel better. You cannot take aspirin for these, you gotta give what it needs.

    Had a good day. Got most of this apt set right. Waxed and buffed the floors. About six years worth of sexual tension is now gone. Looks showroom here. D*mn proud of myself. Organized the small bedroom (my shop / bunker). This is where I have the workbench, metal the racks, SHTF prepper stuff. Got it finally fully unpacked and neat looking. Everything can be found. I installed the door to this room. A heavier interior door. It is set perfectly. The small bedroom has a small balcony / patio. I made sure nothing can be seen through the window from the street (I live on the third floor). As much as I wanted to hang a flag off it on Saturday, I didn’t. Don’t bring attention to yourself in deep red-southern california……..
    ncy
    I cut two inch plywood to fit all the windows flush in case of an emergency when I firsty moved in, and I painted them with a good faux finish so if they had to be used, it doesn’t look like plywood. It looks like dark curtains drawn.

    Productive day…….so now enjoying tea, and I couldn’t find anything I wanted to listen to…so I slid my finger along the records eyes closed, and grabbed one. ABBA Greatetes hits 1973-1983

    So getting flashbacks to my youth as a kid during car trips

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Pingback: Elements of Spiritual Maturity | Σ Frame

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