Cultural Influences

An exploration of Asian acculturation as it relates to western sexuality.

Readership: All
Author’s Note: This essay has received significant input from NovaSeeker.
Reader’s Note: The author has lived in Taiwan for almost 17 years at the time of this writing.
Trigger Warning: This article discusses racial differences.
Length: 2,800 words
Reading Time: 8 minutes

Introduction

Back in January, we looked at The Rise of the Amateur Online Sex Industry. Three noteworthy case studies who were focal points of this series, Nikole Mitchell, Mikayla Samountry, and Belle Delphine, are all of Asian descent (Korean, Laotian, and Chinese, respectively). It seems like an odd coincidence that the first two women are both Amer-Asian, and Delphine is British-Asian.  Honestly, we didn’t pick these examples because they are Asian. It just so happens that something very curious occurs when Asian women enter into the world of Anglo Femlightenment, and this amalgamation contributes to the fact that many of the top female stars are Asian.

So really, what is it about Anglo-Asian women that creates this star studded sexuality and overall popularity* in general?

This post will offer westerners some insights into the Asian mystique.

Cultural Differences

In the west, men are judged by their confidence and persona, and women are judged by their beauty and social status, and everybody is seen through those lenses. Granted, there are many socially acceptable “overlays” that are adopted to shroud the reality of these intersexual perceptions, but it is what it is. The Red Pill is a late attempt to remove these overlays to reveal this basic human nature to the awareness.

Compared to Anglo-Saxon culture, there is much more variation among Asians in terms of personality, values, belief systems, and socialization. In my view, Asian people in general, and Asian women in particular, run a very wide spectrum, compared to westerners. The best of them are literally angels, and these quickly get snatched up by upper echelon men into marriage. Those who are not so good (as per comprehensive MMV) tend to travel/live abroad and/or marry foreigners.

I’ve written much more about cultural differences in two earlier posts.

Aesthetic Appearances

There is a common stereotype in the west that “Asian women don’t get fat.”

After living in Asia for many years, I can tell you a few things about this.

When Asian women are thin, their bodies look sleek and petite. Most Asian women don’t have buxom T&A like other races (some do), but they do have flat stomachs, good proportions, and graceful lines and curves. They can be very cute, and some are stunning. But if they gain a little extra weight, that impression evaporates leaving the formless, androgenous look that is stereotypical.

Asian women can get fat, just like any other race, but most Asian women are too conscious of their appearances to let themselves go too far. Asian women are very concerned about this, and a lot of Asian women actually starve themselves to stay thin. They usually don’t allow themselves to gain weight until they’ve reached an age when they no longer care about garnering attention and making social impressions. A lot of this is due to acculturation, so Asians who grew up outside of Asia don’t place as much emphasis on this (especially American Asians). However, an Anglo-Asian woman who does make the effort to stay thin will stand out like a superstar!

Of note, cosmetic surgery is commonplace in Taiwan and in Korea. 25% of women aged 21-30, and 35% aged 31-40, had plastic surgery in South Korea in 2020. I would guess it’s about the same in Taiwan. The most common cosmetic treatments are laser treatments for skin blemishes, followed by blepharoplasty (eye-jobs), and rhinoplasty (nose-jobs).

Needs and Expectations

Compared to western white women, there seems to be a much higher percentage of Asian women who need material comforts to be happy. Also, compared to WWW, there is a lower percentage of Asian women who view sexual fulfillment/contentment as indispensable. It has been interesting for me to find that many Asian women I’ve known easily recognize and accept these traits about themselves, and the differences between themselves and WWW. To paraphrase some common proverbs, I’ve heard said statements like…

  • “No money, no honey!”
  • “It’s better to cry in a Benz than to laugh in a Toyota.”
  • “White women can live in the woods (viz. a poor financial condition) happily as long as they have a macho man.”
  • “You know how [insert other race] men/women can’t keep their pants on/knees together/etc.”

From my initial impression, I had the idea that Asian women were frigid gold-diggers. But after living in Taiwan for a while, and dating some women here, I learned that this is simply not true. They can be extremely generous to those whom they care about (freely offering gifts and spots in the low US$ hundreds range), and their sexual enthusiasm is definitely not lacking.

All of the above are due to both cultural and racial differences.

In the US, women who emphasize money and luxury are dismissed as materialistic, but in Asia, it is accepted as an intrinsic characteristic of female nature.  So it is expected that a man should supply sufficient material comfort to the woman if he wants her to stick around. Actually, this is true, and it fits the Biblical concept of women.

In Asia, women who emphasize sexual fulfillment are dismissed as hedonic and/or low class, and in many cases, emotionally needy or broken.  But again, it is not viewed as something dirty or abnormal as some religiously conservative westerners might see it. A word roughly translated as “chowderhead” is considered to be a more offensive insult to a woman than $1ut or wh0re, and is used for equivalent purposes. But in the US, it is accepted as an intrinsic characteristic of female nature (although it is taboo to talk about it as such).  So it is covertly expected that a man should fulfill all her romantic/sexual needs if he wants her to stick around. Asian women can intuitively recognize this trait about WWW, but in the west, only the Red Pill will openly admit this.

So, it is kind of the opposite situation between the east and the west, including the openness about the facts. Asians are quite honest about human nature and they’ll joke about the bad aspects. But westerners want to paper over the embarrassing aspects, thinking it rude, profane, or non-PC to be so honest.

Case Study 1 – Nikole Mitchell

Let’s go over Nikole Mitchell’s situation again from the viewpoints of her acculturation.

Physically, Nikole is one of the few Amer-Asian girls who can plausibly hide her identity.  When I first saw her pictures in that article at the NY Post, I thought she had a very attractive face and especially interesting and striking eyes, but she didn’t strike me as Asian, even in part.  But … once you know she’s Amer-Asian, if you look back at the pictures … you immediately see it very clearly, and it’s hard from thence forward to not see her as Asian-American, even in terms of her appearance.  She’s kind of “stealth” in that regard.  She doesn’t hide it totally, to her credit, but she totally doesn’t emphasize it, either, which she can manage because of how she specifically looks, and this is likely convenient for her in terms of her cultural distancing from her Korean-ness at this stage of her life as well.  Her three brothers (there is a family picture from the last few years somewhere in her Instagram feed) are all much more obviously Korean-American than Nikole is, in terms of appearance.  I wonder if they are culturally as well.

To me, she seems rather “Americanized”, and far removed from her Korean ancestry. However, we do have a few clues about that side of her.  Her mother is Korean, not Korean-American, but Korean.  Nikole is “Korean enough” to be bilingual, and when her husband John met her she was teaching in Korea.  But, unlike him, she wasn’t teaching English to Korean kids, she was teaching “real subjects” in a Korean high school.  So I think she is much, much more Korean than she likes to emphasize or portray to western audiences. She is probably hiding certain characteristics and mannerisms that would give it away.

In addition to that, I think we also have to be careful to assume that Nikole’s descriptions of her own background reflect what she was being taught in the home/church about things, or rather whether they reflect the ideology she adopted when she became associated with the LGBT ideology and all of its writings. My guess is that it’s a mix of both, but some of the ways that she chooses to describe things are so textbook feminist that they can’t have been ideas she had before she read them in some feminist text. This is even doubly the case because Christianity is being made to do all the work, rather than sharing the work with her Korean-ness, because she wants to pin things on one side and not the other — because pinning it on both would be uncool in 2021.

In fact, I think a good amount of her complaints about “patriarchy”, and her angst about “roles for women” and “the role of sex”, and so on, it is directed not only at the US culture (although it certainly is directed at our culture here), but also at Asian patriarchal culture, because although her father himself is American, she grew up with Korean cultural influences in her house due to her mother and presumably extended family in Korea, and this seems to have formed cultural expectations in the home as well (which is understandable, given the role that “Tiger Mom’s” set in that regard).

Thus, when we consider how her personal issues stem from both sources, we see her behavior as being rather curious in that she only talks about one of them — she doesn’t want to talk about the Korean side of things, because that doesn’t play well in our culture, where it is not fashionable to point out that non-American cultures are less “progressive” about women’s issues. And she does that even when one such culture was obviously front and center in her life. If anything she works very hard to hide her Korean-ness most of the time, and that’s probably because of the dissonance it creates in her.

Nikole strikes me as someone who likes to tout her “biracial” background when she wants to, as an intersectional “box-checker”, like she does with LGBT. But in fact, she does not currently have anything to do with the Korean-American community, nor anything else relating to that aspect of her identity, probably because she sees it as totally unsupportive and retrograde.  In that regard, in light of her current choices, she is probably correct!

We know from John that Nikole’s relationship with her family is “strained” due to her choices.  This is likely from all of them, but I would not be surprised if a good amount of the reason why it is so strained is that she has done things now that are real “face”-losers for her mother and, to a lesser extent, her three brothers for the reasons cited above — Asian culture does not support a woman following her own sexual lust where ever it may lead her like American culture often does, even if the family had some financial struggles which likely reduced their opinion of John to some degree.

In this regard, I think it’s important to remember that Nikole is very *public* about what she is doing, so to the extent that the family has friends and relatives and so on, at least some of whom must be Korean, they may have (likely some certainly have) seen her Instagram, and know all the details about Nikole’s current lifestyle — if that’s the case, it’s a devastating loss of face for her mother and, to the extent they care (and I am guessing they do somewhat) her three brothers.  From her family’s perspective of “losing face”, her decision is most likely seen as some form of rebellion or revenge, and I’m sure that makes repairing the breach even harder than it would be in the case of a purely “Western” family, which views conservative rebellion as more or less acceptable, or at least expected to some degree, which the culture of her mother’s family does not.  It also makes it more plausible that she is as independent and isolated as John describes — because a WWW would not be so isolated, even if she made Nikole’s choices, due to the overwhelming tendency of western culture to support any choices made by a WWW.

Now that she is in the top 0.1% of OnlyFans earners, I wonder how high she would have to get, or how much income she would have to have, before her family starts to get over the shame of it all, and begin to feel like it is acceptable to them.

Case Study 2 – Makayla Samountry

Makayla Samountry was another case study we covered before.  I was very curious about her surname – it turns out it’s Laotian-American.  Minnesota has a small but significant Laotian community, which readers may not know about.  It seems clear that Makayla is not pure Laotian, either, but like Nikole, she has a kind of ambiguous look ethnically — although she looks less white than Nikole does … perhaps more mixed Latin or something like that, but I would guess that has to do with the difference between NE and SE Asia more than anything else.

Samountry mentions in her videos that her family was not thrilled about her activities on OnlyFans, and her detailing them for the broader public on her popular YouTube channel, and about her break-up with her landlord/boyfriend which happened in the wake of her OnlyFans success, but she is much less of an open book than Nikole Mitchell is. Still, she is an example of a woman from a fairly restricted East Asian cultural background really going to the other extreme in the context of the much more permissive local culture of the United States.

The Special Recipe for Star Studded Sino Sexuality 

NovaSeeker mentioned before that Sticking the Landing is for the Elite. Women who are UMC or higher, and are able to stick the landing, have the following traits.

  1. Attractiveness / Looks
  2. Discipline
  3. Intelligence / Smarts
  4. Education
  5. Upbringing

To put this into the context of the present discussion, Asian culture, including the women, aspire to all of these things. (Intelligence cannot be changed, but it is something they value.) Money/wealth is regarded as both a motivator and a benefit.

Specifically, the shared traits of these women (Nikole Mitchell, Makayla Samountry, and Belle Delphine) include (1) being comparatively attractive, (2) disciplined, and (3) focused. These three traits line up with NovaSeeker’s first three points. And while Delphine does not appear to have attended university, both Mitchell and Samountry have college degrees).

It’s at least possible that among Anglo-Asian women there is an odd intersection that happens between Asian-sourced focus on wealth (i.e. the greedy gold-diggerness stereotype) and American-sourced sexual fulfillment (as characterized by licentiousness). The cross-cultural influences of NovaSeeker’s last two points, education and upbringing, introduce both (4) cash consciousness, and (5) sexual adventurism into the mix, and all at the same time. 

Seems like an interesting combo of traits to say the least, and probably not at all the kind of combo that their parents were expecting the mix to yield. In some ways, it’s like attractive Anglo-Asian women are the “fully loaded vehicle” predators of the OASIS, possessing the perfect combination of drive, savvy, looks and materialism to propel them to extreme levels of success in a culture which has no practical limits on the ability of women with such traits to monetize them to great effect.

To be honest, the first four attributes offer a seemingly negative but fairly true description of Asian women in general. Westerners might have the notion that these traits describe a strong, independent, feminist woman. However, all these things can be positive attributes if her husband can access the benefits of those traits, as opposed to being a victim or tool of such a woman. Western men only know that it’s hә11 to be the victim of the same, but Asian men kind of expect their women to pull a little of their own weight in certain regards, and if the woman has the same mind, then these traits are considered to be positives. This may be another reason why Asian women are so highly demanded by men of all races.

* Note: The appeal of Anglo-Asian females is not limited to the Meat Market. We also see noteworthy Asian females rise to popularity in other venues as well. One example worth mentioning here is S. G. Cheah, an author at Evie magazine who writes articles that are more based than not. Take this one for example…

Evie Magazine (S. G. Cheah): The Feminization Of Men Cheats Women Out Of Our Natural Desire To Admire Strong Men (2021 January 2)**

Cheah gets a whole lot of stuff right! Except that she seems to mistakenly think that MGTOW starts with men’s unhealthy thinking, not with an unhealthy world to which those men then naturally react in order to protect themselves. So there is still that lack of ordinary women taking any responsibility for the mess they created. Apparently radical feminists and their soy boys are to blame. (It’s always somebody else’s fault!)

The article is perhaps a sign that the Red-Pill message is gaining a bit more traction, even if it is only one Feminist author who is seemingly only asking us to return to Complementarianism. The fact that a Feminist magazine published it at all is shocking. It kind of goes back to my long standing point that the most influential contributors to Based philosophy/Red Pill in the west all hail from foreign cultures.

** H/T: Sharkly’s comment under It was god’s will for her to be a stripper! (2021 January 22)

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About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Asia, Attitude, Attraction, Building Wealth, Child Development, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Cultural Differences, Determination, Discipline, Female Power, Feminism, Identity, Influence, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Media, Models of Success, Personal Presentation, Racial Relations, Sexual Authority, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

52 Responses to Cultural Influences

  1. SFC Ton says:

    If my daughters did something like that I’d give them $200 for a legal name change and a bus ticket out of town.

    I gave my oldest daughter a list of stuff that would trigger the name change and bus ticket money. There wouldn’t be any going back from certain things.

    I think that would be a rather common theme for conservative Western men even two generations back.

    Liked by 6 people

  2. cameron232 says:

    Well my usual comment. Asians are (biologically and culturally) the most K-strategist of all peoples – not real shocked they’d value money/material things more than others on average.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Rock Kitaro says:

      lol, just Google’d “k-strategists.” I heard it before from listening to Stefan Molyneaux, but didn’t really get what he meant. only context clues.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Elspeth says:

        It’s basically a restatement of the notion that Asians are better at picking mates than whites, who are better than blacks at picking mates with a long term mating strategy in mind. Nature over nurture, as it were. Wonder where this guy got the idea that as a black man, he needs to be picking his wife with more in mind than “baby got back”:

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Rock, I don’t know Stephan. Based on my casual reading r/K is a concept in biology to explain differences in reproductive “strategy” between species. Its application to human (individual and group) differences was theorized by JP Rushton and is uber-un-PC. Rushton theorized based on a large variety of metrics both behavioral and physiological e.g. rates of twins. Edward Dutton (also non PC) has offered some useful non-leftist/liberal criticisms of Rushton e.g. issues with Rushtons data and the fact that by some of the metrics Amerindians don’t fit into Rushtons ideas. Rushton was a personally immoral man not that it makes him wrong.

        Most criticisms of r/K applied to humans are moral criticisms. My default starting assumption is that human differences are 50% bio/ 50% other. HDBrs like redpills can be hyperbolic and rigidly ideological.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jack says:

        “…application to human (individual and group) differences… is uber-un-PC.”

        “…(also non PC) has offered some useful non-leftist/liberal criticisms…”

        Receive a red checkmark, it should. After all, anything uber-un-PC must be true!

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Rock, in addition to material characteristics man has immaterial characteristics. Reason, will and memory. Agency. Catholics used to refer to these as the three powers of the soul. Humans uniquely have a soul.

        Liked by 1 person

      • SFC Ton says:

        “…he needs to be picking his wife with more in mind than “baby got back”.”

        ………

        LOL I screened pretty hard for the disaster marriage; I picked The Girls based on “baby got rack”, “baby got back”, and submissiveness towards me and my mission.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Not sure I understand your comment Jack. Do you mean some people assume something true because its un PC? Yeah there’s probably some like that -“they’re hiding something with pc!”

        Something being PC or un PC doesnt make it true or false. Dutton’s critique on Rushton is interesting and valuable because it doesnt originate from an ideological bias.

        Like

      • Jack says:

        Cameron,
        In history, there’s a thing called the criteria of embarrassment. It says that if a source of information offers information that is embarrassing or poses a risk to the source, then it must be true. Un-PC stuff seems to pass the criteria of embarrassment. (I’m lousy in history, so I hope I’ve got this right.)

        Liked by 1 person

  3. cameron232 says:

    Asian women trend relatively more towards money/status-hypergamy and relatively less towards hot-guy-genes-men-hypergamy*. Of course, like most women they want it all but they’re probably more conscious about the tradeoffs women have to make – they’re no dummies.

    Yes I realize the traditional definition of hypergamy is money-status hypergamy.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Novaseeker says:

      It’s culture. Ours is a very individualist culture — certainly the most individualist culture the world has ever known. Asia is … not an individualist place in the least. A culture that is as extremely individualist as ours will tend to devalue, relatively, the economic value brought by others, because most people tend to rely on their own economic power — after all they are individualists. So that means you prioritize something in a mate that you can’t get yourself — namely a hot person of the opposite sex. You get yourself your own economics as a good individualist, but you acquire from the other hotness in the opposite sex that you can’t generate yourself (not being a member of that sex) and, for women in our culture above a certain social level, the status boost that comes from marriage that you also cannot get for yourself.

      In Asia, where it is less individualist, families are the unit of value, so it’s a given that there will be economic reliance going on, and a division of roles with some specialization taking place. Therefore it makes sense that women would, again in relative terms, prioritize finances over hotness because they are living in a culture where they are not individualists and are therefore looking to create the unit and the person who fills the counterpart role in the unit the best, rather than looking for something that they cannot procure themselves as an individual, as women here are doing.

      Of course as you say, women like to have the best in all areas. It’s a question of prioritization and culture. And also raw economics. The economic situation between the sexes in the US, for example, really only started to even out in the past 15-20 years and that’s really a feature of the people who are below 40, even below 35. Above those ages, men still dominate economically (although there are more financially strong independent women at those ages than ever before), so the cultural change was less apparent. For the young, though, women are at least as powerful economically and in many places more powerful, on average, economically than men are, and this tends to encourage them to prioritize hot over finances, certainly for “dating”, but even for marriages as long as the man in question has adequate finances (i.e., much below what a similarly situated woman in Asia would consider acceptable for marriage). And in Asia it’s roughly the reverse.

      Also, because the Asian unit is the family and not the individual, there is substantial pressure on Asian women to conform to their own desired role in that unit in order to be attractive wife candidates, and this tends to lead to them prioritizing different aspects of themselves, at least for those who are trying to make themselves the most attractive marriage candidates. That tends to be a very, very different set of characteristics than the independent individualist American woman prioritizes, although the overlap is that both will be emphasizing their appearance, albeit for very different reasons.

      Liked by 5 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Sure, but culture is a function of biology (and other things too) and both influence and reinforce each other. r/K variation between different “cultures” is striking (to me anyway) and seems to explain the pattern you see in tendency to select “genes” men or “money” men. Yes, lots of within-group variation but we’re talking about cultures (east Asia) as part of the OP.

        Individualist vs. collectivist probably has a biological component too.

        I assume Jack was thinking something like this or he wouldn’t have included a trigger warning. It’s not controversial to say that cultures vary. It is to say biology varies.

        Like

      • Novaseeker says:

        If it were biological, Asian women in the US would behave more similarly to Asian women in Asia, but they don’t. If the parents are from Asia, the cultural impact of Asia is still there. In third-generation Asians, you don’t see those same behavioral characteristics, even if they are almost all genetically Asian, unless they continue to “re-upload” cultural influence by either living in two countries, importing mates or what have you. Asians do get Americanized down the line and start to act like whites do (both sexes do), which wouldn’t happen much if it were a case of genetic tendency to K-select.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        John Derbyshire’s ice people vs. sun people. East Asians are ice people –– the women would freeze and starve without beta males.

        East Asian civilization probably reinforced this – human evolution, particularly above the shoulders seems to have accelerated 10000 years ago – civilization can drive natural/sexual selection.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Lexet Blog says:

        Northern Europe proved that theory wrong

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        The n=3 sample in the original post seemed to be suggesting that the half-breeds are intermediate between Euros and East Asians in sluttiness, money grubbing, etc. This could, of course, be intermediate in culture or genes or both – or they get the worst of both?

        I don’t know how much assimilated, ancestrally unmixed third gen Asians behave, as a group, in western societies. My guess is they’re less slutty on average and select beta males more on average. I don’t know enough examples and don’t’ know of any relevant statistics. My baseline assumption in these things is the aggregate differences are 50/50 environmental/biological with the caveat that environment isn’t independent of genes.

        Like

  4. cameron232 says:

    Ancedote about a half Asian girl I knew in High School.

    She dated a buddy of mine (nice guy type not alpha). He broke up with her right after we graduated. She immediately replaced him with another nice guy, married the guy but then wrecked her marriage with him/screwed him over. She then went into a wild-girl phase (but not as wild as a lot of the girls around her). She then found a very rich lawyer/real estate developer and married him. Shortly after their first kid, he dumped her for a much younger blonde woman that he literally met on sugardaddy.com.

    Liked by 4 people

    • lastmod says:

      My Aunt from Thailand broke it down for me years ago about “asian lady”

      *Japanese lady will sleep with your best friend
      *Chinese lady all about the money
      *Indian lady sneaky
      *Korean lady always angry
      *Phillipine lady only marry American man for Green Card
      *Vietnam lady only married Aerican to get out of worn torn starving country

      Still find this funny…….but probably an ounce of truth here…..but we all know Asian women are perfect wives, and any young Christian man that wants to marry has to go to Asia 😉

      Liked by 3 people

      • feeriker says:

        Your aunt could have added “and get the money” to each of the descriptions of each type of Asian woman she described. That’s what it all ultimately boils down to anyway. Women are women, no matter what part of the globe they come from.

        Liked by 2 people

  5. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    Feminists just know the end of wide-spread provisioning is coming to an end!So their getting desperate &hysterical!That dos’nt explain much of this supposed growing redpilling?When they demand pre-voting rights I’ll take them serious!Thats one of the main rules of GBFMtm GAMEtm as in I’AM the GAMEtm!Feminists want to play the GAMEtm?Then they should bring it!Instead of singing it!They understand the costs of this GAMEtm?

    Liked by 2 people

  6. lastmod says:

    My uncle married a Thai woman in 1970. They are still married to this day. He met her when he was stationed at Ubon Royal Thai AFB (Thailand was ally of the USA during Vietnam, and let us use their bases).

    *Nothing yells louder than a Thai lady at 6am at her husband.
    *Due to her gambling, they almost lost everything TWICE, including the house
    *They have sent thousands and thousands of dollars back to Thailand over the decades to help her family there
    *They sponsored relatives to come to the USA, get citizenship, they work, go back to Thailand and collect Social Security or SSI and live better than most Americans
    *My Aunt made my uncle get a second job while in the USAF during the 1970’s so more money could be had in the house.
    *My aunt made my uncle get a job after retiring from the USAF in the 1990’s so more money could be had in the house

    My aunt is a fantastic cook…..no doubt……but her behaviors mirror western women in my opinion. Divorce-threat always hanging right there throughout their marriage

    Liked by 3 people

  7. cameron232 says:

    Also Asian men not real “macho” – tend to lack alpha males (yeah there’s some bad@ss Asian dudes) so the women maybe aren’t real wired to expect alpha – Mark Zuckerberg is good enough I guess.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      In Asia, the macho man is seen as a ridiculous stereotype of western masculinity — self-confident, self-willed, inconsiderate, conceited about his own brawn and sexual conquests, stupidly relies on his own physical strength to get everything done, unpredictable, violent, aggressive, disruptive, annoying… and very proud and egotistical. (Sometimes I’ll act like a macho man in social settings just to make people laugh at the irony and feel more relaxed around me.) Conversely, the western stereotype of Asian men being wimpy flaccid geeks is equally ridiculous.

      In reality, there are some very courageous and high T Asian men, I would even call them heroic, but it’s not obvious to westerners because it doesn’t fit the western concept of macho masculinity. People of all cultures tend to focus on traits that match the stereotypes because of confirmation bias.

      “Mark Zuckerberg is good enough…”

      Remember, Asian women who marry outside their race tend to be very low MMV according to Asian standards. Lastmod’s description of the Thai woman who married his uncle sounds like a woman that no self-respecting Asian man would ever tolerate.

      Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        The Asian men I work around are engineers so they may not be representative. The most effeminate non-gay I’ve ever known was an Asian male engineer. It’s sometimes hard to tell with younger white guys these days too. You assume the guy is gay until one day you walk into his cube and see a picture of him and his wife.

        Liked by 2 people

      • redpillboomer says:

        “In Asia, the macho man is seen as a ridiculous stereotype of western masculinity — self-confident, self-willed, inconsiderate, conceited about his own brawn and sexual conquests, stupidly relies on his own physical strength to get everything done, unpredictable, violent, aggressive, disruptive, annoying… and very proud and egotistical.”

        I laughed at your stereotypical description of western masculinity. It of course appears ‘cartoonish.’ But it got me to wondering for our Chad-chasing western girls, how much of that stereotype are they after in the ‘hot guys’ when the girls are in that 18-25 range? Probably close, but dialed back a bit in a couple of the listed items, e.g. violent, disruptive, annoying.

        I’ve mentioned in earlier posts that I do some of my ‘RP sociological observations’ while working out at the gym. I see a good cross-section of American youth in there, although it is self-selected portion of it–the firm body twenty and thirty somethings. I see plenty of what appear to me to be guys who fit the Chad or Tyrone meme. They occur to me, using the stereotype in the opening quote as: self-confident, self-willed, not really inconsiderate or conceited, but focused on the job at hand-i.e. working out. They don’t really occur as unpredictable, violent, aggressive disruptive, proud or egotistical; but aloof and stoic. I can see why the women are attracted to them. I always wonder about them though, what are they doing to develop their minds and their earning power? I have no idea. I know what I was doing at their age in that department, being an Air Force officer and working out, traveling, getting my masters degree, having my own townhouse and making/saving some money. Maybe they already have something like that going on, there’s no way for me to tell. However, given our culture and economy the way it is, they’re probably doing okay just for themselves, but can’t handle a whole lot beyond themselves financially, i.e. a family or a western girl with expensive tastes.

        I’m not quite sure where I’m going with this, maybe nowhere really. I think I’m trying to distinguish between the Chad & Tyrone meme of the manosphere: meathead working out by day and banging Tinderella’s all week long by night. These guy’s, these real life Chads, appear to me to fit the Chad mold PHYSICALLY, but don’t appear to be the proverbial ‘bad boy/slut slayers’ of manospherian lore.

        Not to get into it now, but the Stacy’s at the gym also appear a little different to me too than the 24/7 hypergamous sluts we in the manosphere make them out to be. One thing I will say briefly about the Stacy’s at the gym, they sure know how to form fit their workout clothes to their bodies, barely anything is left to the imagination as far as what kind of curves they’re packing. No complaints, I just don’t remember those kind of gym outfits on the women back in the eighties and nineties.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Jack says:

        “…the proverbial ‘bad boy/slut slayers’ of manospherian lore.”

        This is another stereotype, but it’s hard not to take them seriously, because their sexual activities change the sexpectations of women and have a larger impact on the SMP/MMP and society. Because of this, the impression is one of deference, respect, fear, or envy, depending on your own characteristics and how it strikes you.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        RP boomer – women are viscerally attracted to masculinity. That includes handsome, physically imposing and signs of socially-dominant personality. The machoman, badboy, etc. is an indicator of social-dominance which is an attractive feature, the opposite of what’s generally attractive in women. I’m sure women vary as to which “type” of alpha they prefer e.g. gorilla vs. peacock, handsome muscleman vs. Rockstar vs criminal.

        But none of these are beta traits.

        Liked by 1 person

      • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

        Western women especialy want a attack dog man to do their bidding!Hence their lust for tall,heavily muscled guys,I’m tall alright!But only muscled enough for lifting up everyday objects,fighting&for daladies!That last one might be a joke,guys is it obvious?I don’t care that much about bodybuilding!I’m more of a weightlifter!

        Like

      • Novaseeker says:

        “One thing I will say briefly about the Stacy’s at the gym, they sure now how to form fit their workout clothes to their bodies, barley anything is left to the imagination as far as what kind of curves they’re packing. No complaints, I just don’t remember those kind of gym outfits on the women back in the eighties and nineties.”

        The standards changed.

        Women who are “in shape” today are hotter, in terms of their bodies, because the standard changed from 1995 to 2021. In 2021, the standard is much more firm/toned/tight. Women do much much MUCH more resistance training and other routines today to make all their muscle groups toned and firm.

        Why did this happen?

        In my view, it’s another downstream impact of porn.

        The difference between a 7 body in 1995 and a 7 body now is muscle tone/firmness/tightness. The 1995 body was more or less designed to look great in clothes, and fine in a bathing suit, but most girls did not have what were then called “bikini bodies” — even most 7s didn’t. The bikini body was a specific type of look, a much more toned body look overall than the average “hot” woman had in 1990-1995. In 1995, there were some girls who looked better with clothes than they did without, and some who looked better without than with, but since most girls wear clothes more than they are naked, most girls went for a look that looked better in clothes (including most “hot” girls in that era as well).

        Along comes the mainstreaming of porn, and suddenly almost all men are looking at the kind of female bodies that look best naked all the time, in numbers that no men in prior history were ever exposed to. The women in porn are sluts, but most of them are the kind of girls who look good naked, obviously.

        This shifted the beauty standard for women towards “porn-worthy” bodies. Instead of a smaller portion of women having that kind of super-toned body, now all “hot” women are getting that kind of body by doing the kind of routines that yield it — which they didn’t as recently as 25 years ago. Now, a woman can’t be hot without having that kind of body — in order to be truly hot now, you have to have a porn-star body (sans the fake boobs) in terms of the body tone, firmness and so on.

        Given that shift, clothing moved in the same direction. Again, that kind of body looks best without clothes. But girls aren’t going to work out naked, so …. we just make clothes that are basically like being naked while wearing clothes! And that is what was done.

        Much of female “clothing” today truly is “clothing in name only”. It may cover the skin, but it reveals the body in ways that clothing previously generally did not do in the same way without revealing skin itself. Clothing has been redesigned to allow the display of an effectively nude female body while at the same time covering the skin so as to be “technically” clothing. Workout clothing has followed suit, and now there is crossover between workout and non-workout clothing for women as well … all of this is easy to explain once you understand the porn-induced shift in the emphasis on female body tone, which has in turn resulted in a spike in demand for, and supply of, clothing that in effect displays a nude female body in everything but a technical sense.

        It’s all porn now, whether you’re technically watching actual porn or not, unless you are literally blind.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Liz says:

        Hm.
        In the 90s, I worked out in a leotard. I had one with some sort of butt-floss. (Yes, I was married and my spouse picked it out for me.) This was high fashion.
        I don’t think I’ve worked out in anything like that or seen that look since the 90s.
        I have to disagree workout gear is more revealing now. But maybe I’m not in the right places to see it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Liz says:

        Okay, this isn’t the best example but it is what people wore to workout in the early 90s.
        Thong leotards with tights were very popular.

        Liked by 2 people

    • redpillboomer says:

      “Given that shift, clothing moved in the same direction. Again, that kind of body looks best without clothes. But girls aren’t going to work out naked, so …. we just make clothes that are basically like being naked while wearing clothes! And that is what was done.”

      Yes, that’s a good way to describe it. Just today, I noticed a cute girl at the gym, about 25, brunette, pony tail, slim with what looked to be a decent set of curves, AND she was wearing gym clothes that looked stylish, yet covered everything. How out of place she looked next to all the gym THOTs in their tight, form fitting gym clothes that showed off every curve of their breasts and their asses. The gym THOTs showed everything just short of the camel toe, and pretty close to that too. The other girl looked…. hmm, what word should I use to describe it? Out of place? Quaint? Overdressed?

      I thought of your post, Novaseeker, because I’d read it yesterday and it came back to me as I observed the conservatively dressed girl’s gym attire right next to the girls wearing the form fitting attire. (They actually were using equipment in the same area of the gym so the observation and comparison was quite easy to make.) You’re correct. The clothing of today is designed to have a ‘naked look while still being clothed.’ I’m not sure quite what to make of it. Being a red-blooded male, I like the form fitting because it draws my male eye, but the casual looked cute and sexy AND conservative; like, maybe there’s a potential girl to get to know for the young men. She actually might have something to offer besides just her body, and entitled attitude, to a younger guy looking for a girl who might be relationship material.

      Like

      • lastmod says:

        I am sure this gal in the gym that “caught your eye” has NO problems attracting the attention of men. Women who go to the gym are pretty much there to show off to just about al men who go to places like this:

        “Look at me, look what you are not going to get unless you have the Ego the size of god, and the checkbook of looks to match.”

        Nice, good girls don’t go to the gym to work out. They don’t. They go to see and be seen.

        A man like me doesn’t walk into the gym to “get into better shape”. I walk into a gym and have what’s left of an ego that has been slashed to ribbons for fifty plus years bled out further. Hence, I work out on my own. Hiking, camping, walking, chin ups on the patio. Muscle training / sculpting at my age is foolish, and it looks foolish or overcompensating at my age.

        Same for an overweight gal. The last place she would go if she really wanted to get into better shape, or loose weight is gym. The last place. Men like you would comment on here how silly she looked. Other women in the gym would snicker, and no “great guy” would get to know her… no matter how much of a “good wife” she could be.

        Gym Kulture is the USA is a soul-wrecking to the below average man or woman. It’s a place of gym THOTS, Chads, Stacy’s and men (like Scott for example) who could stop traffic at midnight on the corner of Hollywood and vine or Christmas.

        Just Saying

        Like

      • Jack says:

        “I like the form fitting because it draws my male eye…”

        …which is EXACTLY why they do it — for the attention and the ego stimulation.

        Being able to turn every social interaction into a sexualized one is an exercise in feminine power — chick crack for women.

        It’s also how women vet men. Men who turn soft and simpy in the presence of cleavage are easy for women to control. Male power is shown in NOT letting feminine power cloud your mind and turn you into mush. Also, a man who is “detached” in this way is also attractive to women.

        I hope you can pass the test.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Lexet Blog says:

        Don’t forget they all wear a hat that covers their face, cementing themselves as objects.

        Liked by 1 person

      • redpillboomer says:

        “Male power is shown in NOT letting feminine power cloud your mind and turn you into mush. Also, a man who is “detached” in this way is also attractive to women. I hope you can pass the test.”

        Lol, easy test to pass. Btw, I’m at the gym to stay conditioned, toned so that as I age, and yes I’m aging, I can remain relatively fit and have some energy for life taks; plus it seems to slow the aging process down a bit. HOWEVER, being red pilled, I’ve found the gym is a good place to make some sociological observations. Yes, the gym population is skewed for sure, but it does in my opinion give insight into the Chad, Brad, Tyrone and Stacy aspects of our youth culture.

        What I noticed yesterday with the conservatively dressed young woman was how out of place she looked in today’s sex-saturated culture. There was nothing wrong with her workout attire, she looked good in it, and seemed focused on getting her workout in. It was a chance for me to juxtapose in a visual way what Novaseeker pointed out in the earlier post in the evolution of women’s gym attire, and attire in general, over the last twenty-thirty years or so. The current look is, how did he put it, something like being ‘naked while clothed.’ The way he had stated it became crystal clear to me yesterday because I observed the two looks, current and yesteryear, side-by-side.

        Like

  8. lastmod says:

    Making observations at the gym is a very skewed, narrow, and narcissistic segment of the population.

    As for the Asian stereotype about western men……. Asian men in Japan, in South Korea, in Thailand, in the Philippines, in India, and in Vietnam…… vast swaths of men are single, and dateless. When I was in Japan working in the late 1990’s on a useless business trip….. every Japanese man my age was single and dateless as well. I actually felt a kinship and not an “odd guy out for once”.

    I mentioned offhand about dating-life in Japan….. all the men laughed “none of us are good enough for any of them”

    So I guess, they WOULD have to adopt the western model of being macho, cartoonish (Game / PUA), going to the gym everyday, sh!tt!ng on everyone and everything around them to get some success with women that “no self-respecting Asian man would date”.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. lastmod says:

    Jack replied above: “It’s also how women vet men. Men who turn soft and simpy in the presence of cleavage are easy for women to control. Male power is shown in NOT letting feminine power cloud your mind and turn you into mush. Also, a man who is “detached” in this way is also attractive to women.”

    While working in a San Francisco nightclub I noticed that women dress like this to imtimdiate other women. The slinky outfits, the cleavage, make-up done “just so” (usually too much) the snarly attitude, the fights in the womens bathroom (including the never-ending long line of the womens bathroom) were used against other women.

    The men they wanted to turn to mush were the PUA / GAme types who supposedly “don’t give women affirmation”

    Male power that I evidently had, their appearance didn’t do a thing to me because I knew already that NONE of them were going to give me their number, were not going to be receptive to my advances even if I dared to make one (would have been called a creep, the way I look is for Chad only, they would have DEMANDED to speak to the manager and to tell him I was “harassing her” and thus she getting an apology, free drinks and more attention), were not giving a single IOI….maybe their appearance or the way they dressed was supposed to be that IOI….yes, yes…she dressed that way for you “mr. average looking man” as a signal for you to come up, talk to her, get her number, make her laugh and you could determine within two seconds if she had a viscereal look, and if she was indeed marriage material…..as if.

    I have always been “detached” and it is never attractive to women……..unless you are indeed deemed “good looking” on a culural norm.

    And Jack also said this…..

    “I hope you can pass the test”

    Do you realize you are telling this to a married man?

    Like

  10. lastmod says:

    A woman who is dressed like that Repilled Boomer (conservitely so to speak) may well indeed be a:

    *woman who was once fat, or thinks she is unattractive, doesn’t want attention from anybody…she is focusing on her workout. She KNOWS this “culture” and knows how hurtful, shallow and base it is. She doesn’t want to be part of the problem…….but she is the problem, she is not providing eye-candy for you

    *just maybe, she may well indeed have a boyfriend that she actually likes and respects, and her going to the gym to not attract male attention is why she dressed like this

    *Maybe, just maybe she actually likes to workout…I know, impossible…women only want to turn mens brains to mush

    This clinical approach the ‘sphere has to everything in this world makes it cold, heartless, angry, impossible and sad to the 80% plus of men who may indeed want a relationship.

    We’re not going back to the 1980’s (worst decade ever), we’re not going back to even 2000. These observations about “how to” vett women don’t work today (if they ever did). Instead of living a life for a higher purpose, or striving to conform to Christ and letting that example shine through you……..we get pictures about who is hot, the 1000 cock-stare, boner tests, viscereal looks……….

    Why would a young guy at the gym want to “come to Christ, join the Orthoodox church, move to Asia or eastern europe to find a wife….when “they are AWALT” and so you might as well “test drive” or behave in ways that are not even small letter “c” Christian, and have a very jaded attitude of looks maxxing, worshipping the sex-act and determining if a woman is wife material by her appearance only………….because if she is hot….she MUST be a good person

    btw…..I would like to thank you Boomers personally for handing the world to me like skid-marked underwear and saying “it’s easy, just go out there, get a job, talk to women” while I look at the deductions from my check to Social Security…..almost as high now 1:1 as federal taxes

    Liked by 1 person

    • redpillboomer says:

      “btw…..I would like to thank you Boomers personally for handing the world to me like skid-marked underwear and saying “it’s easy, just go out there, get a job, talk to women” while I look at the deductions from my check to Social Security…..almost as high now 1:1 as federal taxes.”

      Btw, not all Boomers are/were the arrogant, know-it-all, weak-willed, spineless idiots you make the generation out to be; just like all Gen X’ers are not useless slackers and all Millennials are not entitled snowflakes. Yes, my generation f’d up big time, but it inherited the f’up from the previous one/two generations. Not excusing us, but SOME of us were trying to make it work, aka get it right, e.g. family life, career and community.

      Just as another aside, my 77 year old mother-in-law lives with us since COVID started. She’s from the 1940s/50s/early 60s kid/teenager era. That’s the era some guys, even RP guys who never experienced it, look back fondly on and say, “If only it was like that now!” I get the sentiment, the Zeitgeist of the times, at least in stereotypical form, was on of stable, two-parent homes, the ‘hallowed nuclear family’ of yesteryear. Let me tell you, I’ve got some insight into what went on inside those Norman Rockwellesque homes, and it isn’t all that pretty. Looked good on the outside to some degree certainly, AND what a shit show on the inside; not just my mother-in-law’s family, but many of the surrounding families of her neighborhood (nice, middle class neighborhood). So yeah, we Boomers overall as a generation sucked, no doubt about it, not going to make any excuses for us; HOWEVER so also did the vaunted ‘Greatest Generation’ and the two that followed mine, X and Millennial. We’re all from fallen generations and we keep adding misery to the next generation. Pity poor Gen Z with their Millennial and younger Gen X parents, God help them is all I can say….AND see what I can do (you too) in the way of being a positive influence.

      Like

      • feeriker says:

        Yes, my generation f’d up big time, but it inherited the f’up from the previous one/two generations.

        THIS.

        It’s why I scream “BULLSHIT!” every time someone refers to the WW II generation as the “Greatest.” They were no such thing. Indeed, they set in motion trends that accelerated the rate of collapse we’re suffering through now. The so-called “Silent Generation” (my own parents’ generation) was no better.

        Liked by 2 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      “This clinical approach the ‘sphere has to everything in this world makes it cold, heartless, angry, impossible and sad to the 80% plus of men who may indeed want a relationship.”

      …………..

      The world is cold and heartless and it’s pretty impossible for most men, so being angry is a valid response.

      A man can use that anger and get this done, or he can eat it like a turd sandwich and get sick.

      Up to him as to which.

      Liked by 3 people

      • lastmod says:

        Use that anger? for what?

        Again… with you all it’s either / or. If the marble doesn’t roll one way… it must roll the other. You’re a hit with the ladies or you’re obviously a beta-supplicating-pedestalizing-cuck. You are either good looking / or ugly. You are married or you’re doomed to burn.

        With your “you do this or that” responses to issues like I posted above, how “using” anger is going to get “this” done. It may but you won’t be fulfilled. OR its you eat a turd sandwich and get sick… and closed with the best of Red Pill sh!tdowns, “It’s up to you!”

        Very little is up to us… well, most of us. To many of you, god knows and ordained everything. You became a drug addict? God knew that you would, he ordained this to happen. God knew your wife that he told you to find was a “good thing” and he also knew she would divorce you or leave…….

        He wants you to suffer for his mere being. There is no choice in that. If you are angry and believe this way-of-thinking… well, you don’t really have a choice. God knew you would get angry.

        To many of you, we have this thing called ‘free will’ and when good things happen, its god. when bad things happen……. Somewhere along the line you made a bad decision, or a decision that wasn’t made in god’s goodness that is vague already and that is why something bad happened. That logic is never used here. For those of you who are divorced and believe this free will thing… Do you honestly believe you must have made a bad choice? No way. None of anyone in these forums has ever made a bad choice. You did nothing wrong. It’s ferminists! It’s the beta cucks who made her do this! It’s the culture! It was the betas in 976 AD who cucked christianity and made everyone ‘chivalrous’ (except you all of course) and this is why we have these problems.

        Still find it funny for the supposed “power” and “chrisma” and (cough) “leadership” you all seem to have bounds of… these “beta supplicating cuks who pedestalize women” just cannot be defeated by you, or taught or even brought into line, convinced, or even led.

        Makes me again wonder who is really smarter here, or who perhaps is just “tooting” his own horn to out alpha everyone else. Men are competative right? Did god ordain this forum, and know this?

        To just about everyone here…. god endowed you ‘down there’, gave you average looks… but nine and tens daily just can’t help themselves around you, and you all were J Crew models when you were younger…. ….you all also seem to have been blessed with a 200 IQ or whatever, have life figured out…… But still, it’s either / or, big words, and a gazillion invented terms for younger men or marriage minded men to find all these amazing women that don’t exist.

        Delusional!

        Like

      • SFC Ton says:

        I didn’t mention women at all.

        Women etc is your obsession, not mine.

        Like

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  12. lastmod says:

    I grew up in a “Norman Rockwell” home like that, and I can tell you, there was zero sh!t-show and this was in the 1980’s, and I still turned out a mess.

    It doesn’t matter what I do as a positive influence. Nothing changes, and when I was a Scoutmaster… helping the addict, the poor… …whatever, I wasn’t doing it right according to people like you… …and I noticed I was wasting my time.

    So if I am a slacker now, I’ll take the slap… …even if I wasn’t one it still won’t change the fact I am being asked to pay almost 30% of my wages to 76 million Americans who had a vast more chance of opportunity, who popularized drugs, wouldn’t serve their country, led to the moral, social and economic decline… while I cannot collect full Social Security until I am 70 (you know that will change).

    But boy oh boy… don’t these young women look hot at the gym……

    Like

  13. Joe2 says:

    “Just today, I noticed a cute girl at the gym, about 25, brunette, pony tail, slim with what looked to be a decent set of curves, AND she was wearing gym clothes that looked stylish, yet covered everything…”

    O.K. you’ve piqued my interest. Rather than all this speculation about the cute girl, I suggest that you keep a look out for her and the next time you should see her at the gym you know what you have to do – approach her and try to get the skinny. All done for sociological research and nothing more. And then report back to us with the truth.

    Like

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