Adultery in the Military

Adultery in the military is common, but mostly overlooked, unless it erupts into something bigger.

Readership: All; Those in the military;

I was tagged in a tweet from Rich Cooper, asking how the military laws deal with adultery. The issue came up because an enlisted man caught his wife having an affair, and he wanted to know what he could do about it. I’m not a lawyer, but I can tell you what I know about this.

Adultery is rather common among the lower ranking members of the military (i.e. enlisted), and it happens at the upper echelon levels as well, but not as frequently. It happens because men are sent overseas on missions and assignments, and they don’t see their wives for months and months. This leaves the woman with a lot of time and freedom on her hands, and it’s very easy for her to engage in a tryst with very little chance of being found out by the husband.

The standard advice to men in the military is not to get married until they get out. But many men choose not to follow this advice, and then get burned when their wife has an affair or their marriage blows up.

The Red Pill wisdom says that marriage is not going to “lock her down”, as is hoped. In fact, in the case of servicemen in the military, getting married soon before a deployment seems to aggravate the possibility of cheating.

There’s a number of DOD directives that are pretty easy to find about how the military code of justice handles adultery. Basically, the way the military approaches the issue of adultery in a vacuum, is that it doesn’t.

The military would rather approach the issue under the spirit of the law, rather than the letter, and use it as a tool to deal with other kinds of issues.

The garden variety cheating couple in the military are probably never going to be charged with adultery, even though it is technically illegal.

What I found is a list, or an algorithm, that determines when and how a person is going to be charged with adultery. Basically, if the adultery causes a loss of morale, unit cohesion, mission endangerment, then being charged with adultery becomes a real possibility.

If someone gets an adultery charge, it’s only because they want to throw the book at them for a bunch of other stuff that’s going on.

For example, let’s say the commander of the unit is sleeping with specialist so and so, and the other members of the unit find out about that, then the question comes up, “What kinds of special favors is she getting out of that deal?”, and then this causes a breakdown in the chain of command. In this kind of situation, adultery will be brought up as a charge.

Basically, what will happen is that the person will be charged with A, B, C, … and adultery, by the way, because they’re guilty of that too.

But aside from a full blown scandal, adultery only comes to light under something much more egregious, like a drug operation, or a prostitution ring.

It’s very rare that someone will be charged with “just” adultery. The brass will usually be pressing charges on a lot of other things before that happens.

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66 Responses to Adultery in the Military

  1. SFC Ton says:

    Round about 50% of the wives in a platoon will got caught whore’in per deployment. And those were the dumb ones who did things like post stuff on Facebook, bring guys home so their 16 year old son could walk in on the infidelity etc etc

    Heck at one point SOCOM dudes were whacking their wives like crazy when they got back. The Army tried to blame it ov various medications but the reality is dudes would spend years being trained to solve all their work place problems with violence, then spend 12+ months solving all their work problems with violence then go home to unfaithful women and do what God and the military put them on this earth to do.

    Some of the slicker units would have a couple of wives disappear a year and a common theme in those disappearances would be….. suspected infidelity

    Every door kicker I know who ate a gun had lady troubles as the last straw.

    It should be illegal for service members to marry/ be married when they enlist.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Novaseeker says:

    That makes sense to me, in terms of treating it as an issue only if it has follow-on impacts. Most workplaces are the same, even though they don’t have the power to make charges against you like the military does. Someone who commits adultery with someone outside of the workplace may be frowned upon by people at work who know it, but there won’t be workplace discipline imposed. It may, in some contexts, impede advancement, or it may not — that depends on a lot of factors. But, if that same act takes place with a subordinate, or a client, or what have you, well … then there is hell to pay for it, because the rest of that context leads to work-specific follow-on effects. This seems intuitive to me, and makes sense.

    Adultery is rather common among the lower ranking members of the military (i.e. enlisted), and it happens at the upper echelon levels as well, but not as frequently. It happens because men are sent overseas on missions and assignments, and they don’t see their wives for months and months. This leaves the woman with a lot of time and freedom on her hands, and it’s very easy for her to engage in a tryst with very little chance of being found out by the husband.

    The standard advice to men in the military is not to get married until they get out.

    This also is sensible, as is this:

    In fact, in the case of servicemen in the military, getting married soon before a deployment seems to aggravate the possibility of cheating.

    It aggravates it because that is the time when the marriage should be getting solidified, and instead it is atrophying. That is a truly formative period of any marriage — the time right after you marry. It’s when you are forming patterns, negotiating how to be married to each other, establishing patterns of intimacy and living and on and on … it is when you are getting knit together. That doesn’t happen when you are not living together, it just doesn’t.

    I know this very well because in my own marriage, my ex was away at law school (3 hour drive away) all week every week for 2 years, apart from the summers, beginning around 6 weeks after we married. Suffice to say, the marriage never recovered from that. The kinds of things other married couples were doing and learning and negotiating and so on were not happening with us because of the separated living situation, and trying to create a marriage based on a “weekend marriage” for the first couple of years simply doesn’t work … you are not knit together properly. I can only imagine that it is magnified all the more when one or both go into a deployment shortly after marrying that lasts months on end. Doesn’t work. There will be bad consequences, period.

    Yes, yes I made that mistake, I agree. I was a beta male, I was living a blue pill mindset, trying to be “supportive of her development and education and ambition” and all of those upper middle class bromides that get thrown around. All foolish and dumb, but I didn’t know that when I was 28 and everyone around me was cheering us on. You live and learn.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Scott says:

      I know this very well because in my own marriage, my ex was away at law school (3 hour drive away) all week every week for 2 years, apart from the summers, beginning around 6 weeks after we married. Suffice to say, the marriage never recovered from that. The kinds of things other married couples were doing and learning and negotiating and so on were not happening with us because of the separated living situation, and trying to create a marriage based on a “weekend marriage” for the first couple of years simply doesn’t work … you are not knit together properly. I can only imagine that it is magnified all the more when one or both go into a deployment shortly after marrying that lasts months on end. Doesn’t work. There will be bad consequences, period.

      That is a sad story.

      When I was in graduate school (and she was in nursing school) we moved in together (I know. The Christian Marriage Dilemma). I was driving about 3 hours from my farthest away clinic to get home. We were apart a lot during the day but would could not wait to be physically together again, no matter how late. To the point where our other obligations slid a little. The most extreme of this lasted about the first two years. Both of us coming up with any reason under the sun to take a day off school, work, practicum, whatever. It is during that time that the most intense bonding occurred. It continued after we got married.

      Now we can be apart for long periods of time, but ONLY because of that part in the beginning. If she walks through a room and then I walk through it 5 minutes later, my blood pressure goes down, and I can sense it. When I leave for trips I always leave a recently worn t-shirt for her to sleep with.

      Knit together is an understatement. Starting off with a deployment arrests all that.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        Yeah.

        I mean it’s worse than arrested development. Development still happens. It just isn’t the kind of normal marital development that involves growing together into a couple. A relationship dynamic that features distance and “space”, in every sense, becomes the development, and it becomes entrenched by the time which is passing. It is almost impossible to undo the patterns of relating that are established during that period, and they are generally not patterns that are conducive to a marriage.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Oscar says:

        I spent the first year of my marriage in Iraq.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Lexet Blog says:

        There are reasons why many ancient cultures, especially the Jews, prevented newly wed men from going to war too soon.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Oscar says:

        Deuteronomy 24:5 When a man has taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war or be charged with any business; he shall be free at home one year, and bring happiness to his wife whom he has taken.

        The Romans, who had a professional army, prohibited soldier from marrying at all until they completed their service. Oftentimes, a Roman legionnaire’s retirement pension was a piece of land in the province where he served.

        A Roman legionnaire might serve his entire career in Gaul, receive a piece of land there, marry a local girl, buy a few slaves to work his land, and live the rest of his life in Gaul. That’s one way that they Romanized the provinces.

        Liked by 2 people

    • thedeti says:

      Nova

      How old were you when you got married? How old was your ex? how long did you know each other, date, etc. before you got married? Did you start out as “friends”/acquaintances, or start out as immediate romantic/sexual interests?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Novaseeker says:

        Deti —

        I was 28. She was 23. We dated for just about a year prior to getting engaged, got married about 7 months after that. Met at work — started by going to lunch as “friends”, but it was kind of “fake” in terms of the “friend” part for both of us and was converted to dating within a couple weeks.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        I don’t know about your case of course – not enough info.

        I think that the degree of attraction that we (average men) have for them is similar to the degree of attraction they have for the most attractive fraction of men (whatever that is). Their attraction to average men is marginal at best. Not zero, but marginal. I can even think of things my wife has said (about other couples) that makes me think she works this way. I can think of conversations we’ve had about couples where something happens that the guy becomes somewhat less attractive-semi famous couples -I don’t want to be specific. She kinda half jokingly makes this dialogue between the couple: “hey, so-and-so, you wanna have another baby?” “Nah, I’m good” – meaning the guy slipped below the floor and is too gross to have sex with. I actually thought about asking her about this but I bet she’d say she was kidding. The thing is I can’t imagine me repeating the same dialogue with the sexes flipped. Makes me wonder if there’s a floor I could slip below. But maybe I read too much into things.

        I think – just hearing stories – here, at work, from my wife – I think this is the single biggest contributor to marital breakdown. Not the only contributor. Maybe even the plurality not majority. But the single biggest. Attraction inequality. I bet for a lot of them it’s like being a prostitute to have sex with a man you’re not attracted to. How twisted is that? The thing that makes you, as a man, feel most desired, appreciated and, yes, maybe even loved feels like prostitution or “martial rape” to her. No wonder no one stays married.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        bet for a lot of them it’s like being a prostitute to have sex with a man you’re not attracted to. How twisted is that?

        It doesn’t seem that twisted to me, actually.

        If men are not attracted to some degree, sex can’t physically happen. So we also have an attraction test. It’s just that ours is broader because sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive, etc.

        For a woman to feel violated if she is not attracted makes sense, because she feels like the sex is extraneous to her — it is the man using her for his pleasure. She is not enjoying it, but he is. So that conjures up the idea of prostitution or rape, because that is what is happening in those scenarios, too. So it does make sense to me.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        sure -from a very forensic point of view. From evolution. From the man’s perspective – spiritual, love, whatever – pretty twisted to me – the cost of them settling because they think men owe them marriage.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        “how twisted is that” referring to the sentence that follows – the implication for the man who married her.

        Like

      • Novaseeker says:

        the cost of them settling because they think men owe them marriage

        Maybe. But keep in mind that they have a harder equation to solve than we do. Men are solving for attractiveness and agreeableness, generally — Christians add more into the mix, but as we know, many times those are added in after the fact, so to speak. It isn’t that hard to find both in one woman because men are attracted to more women than vice versa.

        Women are looking for two different kinds of men, really — genes men and family men. There are a few men who solve both parts of that equation, but most are one or the other (or none). And it’s only the first type that generates a desire in women that is equivalent to the male desire for women. So almost all women, if they want to marry and have children (recognizing as most of them do that this is still the best way to do that), will marry guys that they aren’t that attracted to — they have no other option. Not settling means kids outside of marriage, or no kids. Attraction is not a choice — they can’t make themselves be attracted to the family type men in the way they are attracted to the genes type men. They aren’t made that way.

        So, really, the best case for most women is that they marry a family type man to whom they are at least somewhat attracted to, so that the sex doesn’t feel like a violation, even if it isn’t very exciting for them. Many women don’t get that best case.

        Sop you can’t really separate out the forensic side of it from the other side because most women just have bad options because of how their attraction works.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Scott says:

        Novaseeker has a way of cutting to the core of an issue with a level of perception and precision that I have long since given up on trying to emulate. I just stand back in awe.

        What he is describing here is exactly why the only advice I give to men in the current SMP/MMP is “if she is not clawing at you like she is starving to death and you are the only food in the room, next it.”

        I can’t think of anything more miserable than climbing on to a woman who is clearly pretending (or worse–openly bored and waiting for you to be done), for the rest of your life.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Funny – the wife and I were watching TV last night – those NutriSystem for men commercials – she said a lot of women say they like the Dadbod because Dadbod makes him less likely to cheat – she also added the Dadbod doesn’t matter to a lot of wives since she doesn’t want to F-him anyway. She hears this from women all the time – that they don’t want to have sex with hubby. SHe tries to encourage them – “you need to get yours girl!” but her words can’t affect their desire for the men they’re married to.

        I wonder – it’s well known that a lot of women are much more interested in sex in the premarital part of the relationship. The old joke about wedding cake being the world’s best libido killer. Is that desire always faked? Or do women have some sort of mechanism that opportunistically increases their sex drive (not to “desire for alpha male” levels I’m sure) when they want to lock in a guy – to solve the betabux need.

        I understand why men cheat and walk away – I really do. When you don’t get that desire from your wife then you seek it with another woman. Yeah, that desire is either fake or temporary with Nicole Newp_ssy (you’ll likely end up in the same situation) but you can probably convince yourself it’s real for long enough to feel loved, wanted and desired- when it wanes with Ms. Newp_ssy then you just move on to the next woman. As a Christian should you do this? No but I understand why men do.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Women tell half truths. And lie outright. And encrypt.

        They say they are all about the “emotional connection” There’s no emotional connection when they bang the football captain in a public bathroom or categorize men as “would f_ck” vs. “would m_rry”. And they do want emotional connection in their LTR’s but who they want that “emotional connection” with isn’t exactly random. This is their most standard answer when presented with the manosphere narrative- “a man’s personality matters more” and “the emotional connection is more important to us than the physical connection.”

        Liked by 3 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        I wonder – it’s well known that a lot of women are much more interested in sex in the premarital part of the relationship. The old joke about wedding cake being the world’s best libido killer. Is that desire always faked? Or do women have some sort of mechanism that opportunistically increases their sex drive (not to “desire for alpha male” levels I’m sure) when they want to lock in a guy – to solve the betabux need.

        I think that’s what happens in marriages that are not the “alpha”/”wanted to jump his bones from the minute I saw him” type of guy.

        I think it reflects a more “baseline” pattern of female intimacy. If you look at lesbians, you see it there, too. Lesbian couple is very much in love and passionate, moves in together, does everything together, joined at the hip together, lots of sex happening etc. Scroll forward a few years and the sex has died down to a trickle, physical intimacy is abundant but in the form of holding and cuddling and other non-sexual affection. It’s called “lesbian bed death” and it’s as common as dirt in lesbian relationships. The women are plenty attracted and excited about each other when the relationship is new, but as time goes along that settles into a pattern that is dominated by comfort rather than passion. No “deception” involved, just a natural evolution.

        I think this is also the case for most male/female relationships unless the male is in the small number of males who can, and does, generate that kind of sustained desire in a woman that she can’t help — her desire never “settles into” the comfort pattern of intimacy, because she can’t help but be smolderingly attracted to her husband. Those are, as we know, exceptional marriages because there are simply very few men who inspire that in women overall — most marriages don’t have a husband who can do that, or who has ever done that for any woman at any time in his life (or at least any woman he was interested in himself).

        Interestingly you also see this in some lesbian relationships where there is a greater “polarity” such that the desire remains high — Glennon Doyle, the left Christian “Momastery” blogger who left her husband for soccer star Abby Wambach, describes her lesbian marriage in this way — unquenchably passionate sex, toe curling pleasure and so on that she never had with her husband (implied strongly that she didn’t .. she isn’t so cruel as to outright say it because they are still co-parenting after all). But Wambach is more of an alpha male than most men are, to be honest, so it’s understandable.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Lesbian “marriages” have THE highest divorce rates – highest of all – much higher than gay men.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        Lesbian marriages least successful of all because of marginal attraction which decreases after commitment.

        So it’s interesting. Based on what you and Scott say your best shot is when she’s “can’t wait to jump your bones” attracted. My n=1 experience confirms this. She did jump my bones and still jumps my bones (with the frequency that 8 children allows). If she’s not jump your bones attracted, it might be fake or she’s marginally attracted and after you put a ring on it, you might fall below her attraction floor.

        So your best chance of a happy marriage is looking for a situation that inevitably involves strong temptation to pre-marital sex and probably premaritial sex as the proof she’s strongly attracted to you. But premarital sex is unChristian.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        The old joke about wedding cake being the world’s best libido killer.

        What’s the most fattening food in the world?

        Wedding cake.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        Lesbian “marriages” have THE highest divorce rates – highest of all – much higher than gay men.

        Lesbian relationships also have the highest rates of physical abuse. Women don’t like each other all that much.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        Lesbian relationships also have the highest rates of physical abuse. Women don’t like each other all that much.

        Yep, although that stat is more related to the fact that women have no taboo about hitting other women, unlike men do. So they let it rip with greater frequency. Gay men also have higher IPV than straight couples for the same reason but lower than lesbians because, unlike lesbians, male culture, even for gay guys, trains men in ways to de-escalate confrontations specifically to avoid male on male violence in most situations. That isn’t as effective as the broad taboo that exists among straight men when it comes to physically attacking a woman, but it is more effective than the lesbian situation, where there is both no taboo and no intra-sexual protocol on de-escalating physical confrontations. So … they have the most inter-partner violence. Not surprisngly.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        So your best chance of a happy marriage is looking for a situation that inevitably involves strong temptation to pre-marital sex and probably premaritial sex as the proof she’s strongly attracted to you. But premarital sex is unChristian.

        And that’s the current series topic on this blog!

        More in tomorrow’s post.

        Liked by 3 people

  3. The only time it becomes a problem for other people is when it becomes a love triangle situation and it “gets on the boat”.

    More of a beef with officers when it happens

    Liked by 1 person

  4. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    EVERYBODY
    I have to bring up wives who wait to divorce their wounded military husbands until the 100k check is deposited into his account?Then she accidentaly drains that account?

    Liked by 2 people

    • feeriker says:

      That’s something almost no one in the mainstream talks about, but I’m willing to wager that it happens with very disturbing frequency, if not regularity.

      Liked by 3 people

      • SFC Ton says:

        I’ve seen them bail and I’ve seen them grind out some terrible stuff.

        I’ve seen men handle it like a boss and I have seen men drive family, friends etc away

        It’s probably to complex a situation to really predict how things are going to play out but clearly the more alpha the dude and the better he can maintain frame the more likely she will stick it out.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        I’ll second what Ton said. It’s tough to know who’ll stick it out, and who won’t. The only consistent thing I’ve seen is that the marriages that were rock solid before the injury are more likely to stay that way, or even get stronger.

        Some people’s personalities are fragile, some are resilient, and some are anti-fragile. The same goes for marriages.

        Liked by 2 people

  5. Scavos says:

    I saw this early on in my enlistment, and had to ask myself, “Do I trust a woman to remain faithful if I were away for a deployment?” The answer was a clear “No!” I didn’t start any serious dating until I was reaching the end and knew I was getting out.

    I saw some of my battle buddies fall into this trap. One of them was being told repeatedly(by myself, our squad and platoon leaders, etc.) that his girl was all sorts of trouble and that he shouldn’t be marrying her. He didn’t listen, and it blew up a year and a half later.

    Liked by 5 people

  6. feeriker says:

    In fact, in the case of servicemen in the military, getting married soon before a deployment seems to aggravate the possibility of cheating.

    This is what happened with me and my ex. Six months after our marriage I was off to the Middle East for six months. This was pre-internet (early 90s), which made communication that much more cumbersome and difficult.

    With the hindsight of the Red Pill, I know that things would have eventually still imploded even if I hadn’t been deployed for one and a half years of the first three years after our marriage, but the timing certainly didn’t help matters.

    Liked by 4 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      The military is a pressure cooker

      Eventuality any fault lines you have as a person/ couple etc is going to give away sooner or later

      Military life when its high tempo is going to speed that up exponentially

      I got started pre GWOT, op tempo was pretty fast which at the time meant frequent but scheduled and short rotations to Columbia. It was a grind on but infidelity wasn’t 50%+.

      How much the current dysfunction is based on op temp and how much is based on how dysfunctional society has become is another matter. Personally I tend to blame the societal dysfunction way more than the op tempo.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Lexet Blog says:

        You are saying pre war SF had lower divorce rates than 50? I imagine that varied by group

        Like

      • SFC Ton says:

        #1 i wasnt a long tabber, but it was a small world back in the day

        #2 What time frame are we talking about?

        #3 I don’t recall a particularly high divorce rate pre GWOT for group guys but I was only familiar with two groups…. who spent the most time dowm range back in the day

        There is a lot I could say on the topic but I’ll leave it at that out of respect for what they can do in brawl vs respect for who they are as men

        Like

      • Lexet Blog says:

        I’d imagine stability of home life was higher for SF before they lowered standards for gwot post surge. Different mission mentality, purpose, etc. new guys want to be door kickers – which isn’t the traditional role of sf.

        Also, since they enter sf at higher ranks and ages, they may be on 2d marriages.

        Even still, oda life ain’t easy for any family. Especially if you are cag

        Liked by 1 person

      • SFC Ton says:

        The standards were lowered on age and maybe they spread out some training events to let guys heal up between phases….. maybe on that last point…..not sure that’s lowering anything. Always some amount of luck invloved so more time to heal up seems like smart pool. And that’s an important point to me because I am generally very hard on the SF mission. Don’t try to dog out long tabbers per say….. but it’s original mission is a failed concpet

        CAG is a whole other critter. The guys had to be older to try out. I cheated by doing short enlistments, so I had my 2nd enlistment under my belt at…. 4 years and 17 weeks? What I did there wasn’t much harder on the family then being a Ranger. Typically home on the weekend, some leeway on my training schedule so it wasnt completly out of the norm to do events with my kids on a school day. A lot of 15-19 hour workdays which meant sleeping in the ready room but I don’t really recall it being all that different then a week long ftx. Our recall deal wasnt that much different either, though we’d get called in for a lot more false alarms. Getting to that point took what seemed like a lifetime. Any rate I can recall 3 divorces in 6 years (counting mine), and yes the other two were because the wives were unfaithful. I don’t really know what the other crews went through. Our missions and lives were vastly different. Personality types too

        Course that was all a long time ago. Last time I was out that way it all was much larger and grander then my day. I couldn’t even recognize the place so what I wrote could be invalid

        Like

      • Lexet Blog says:

        Army aviation typically has a high divorce rate, but 2d marriages seemed far more stable

        Like

      • SFC Ton says:

        LOL that’s funny! one of the guys I did time with as a Ranger became a pilot, got divorced, went SOAR then married a much hotter chick who is still good looking and still way into him

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        Clearly, all those Ranger, SF, CAG, SOAR guys just weren’t “alpha” enough.

        Liked by 1 person

      • SFC Ton says:

        LOL godfather#2 was a living nightmare to the other side, won an award for being vet to buiness owner of the year in some magazine but so dang beta we thought he’d lose it at a DMV or post office one day

        All these dudes are pretty alpha in the man only parts of the world but we all know that doesn’t always transfer over to the smp/mmp

        Like

      • Scott says:

        One of the big misconceptions in the general public is that the operator/aviator crowd are a bunch of type A uber alpha types.

        The ones who get past the psych part of selection (hint: if you are in one of these courses, you being evaluated by a psychologist and you don’t know it–or when–or how) are very low key. They are family guys with an SUV and a mortgage. They are not obnoxious dark triad types. Those guys can sometimes get past the selection process, but don’t last.

        Liked by 1 person

      • SFC Ton says:

        Yup…. sort of. Those types seem to keep their slots these days. I’m thinking that was a GWOT/ man power crunch. Maybe not the real over the top type but there is a ton of dysfunction in those units these days. I think op tempo pressure is part of it, society at large is way more dysfunctional so the newer generational operators are goimg to be more dysfunctional and guys these days tend to take that “elite soldier/ i’m special” thing to heart and, i believe, think they have the right to do uncool sh!t. .

        That’s from the outside looking in, since I spent my past 6 years in that life pipe hitting, hearing the stories from new guys on my crew, old friends and casual observation but it’s gotten to the point I don’t socialize in those circles anymore.

        I think it’s pretty common for a man to be a brawler at work, whatever type of work it is, and a lot more beta at home because to those types of men home is a refuge from his literal/ figurative battlefield.

        There is a missing part of that puzzle but I have never been able to explain it very well.

        Because of the age difference, I think that was less true in the Rangers. Way back when, we were less “elite level soilders” and more rowdy young men looking to party and do crazy sh!t before we grew up.

        I took about 2 years after selection for me to realize how the entire selection phase was driven by psychologist. Once I figure that out a lot of selection made more sense

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        @Scott, I work closely with a retired AH-64 pilot. Very nice guy, very soft spoken, family man, smart, hard-worker – one of the men I most respect here at work. FWIW. Nice but doesn’t come off as a wuss either.

        Our (former) boss had reservations about hiring him – said he was too quiet (former boss was a blabber mouth AirForce Colonel).

        Like

  7. Liz says:

    Using my last bit of hot spot to chime in here… I’d wait, but this topic will probably move on before I’m able to get back online and post again, so I’ll just post what I can now.

    I’m going to put a plug in (insert booes, and whatnot) for raising kids on military installations. I think it’s a good environment (in general) for kids. Definitely better than the vast majority of places I’ve lived off-base. And as I’ve mentioned I’ve moved many many times. I’m hard pressed to think of better (feel free to correct me with specifics…real world alternatives that are better, and realistic for the average person who needs a place to work as well as live, not obscure Amish farms or post retirement options available with a sure pension and so forth).

    And when you have an unusually good environment for kids, it’s a de facto good environment for marriages/families. Sometime in the 40s or 50s, some folks working in the government understood that making the military a good lifestyle for families was a way to ensure they would keep re-enlisting, and their children would also. This has changed some and we are starting to go the European model which is more like a 24/7 job. That’s also more the Reservist/Guard model (in the USAF, something called the “total force initiative” has really changed things…I’m not so sure it has been successful and that’s a different topic).

    But (again) to military installation living: Everyone knows each other, there is zero crime, kids are out playing from dawn ’til dusk and everyone knows each others kids and everyone is responsible for them (they share the burden), they are overall far better students than average and the base schools are usually far better than the local economy (because the kids are better overall).
    When my spouse was deployed the neighboring dads helped out, and when they were gone my spouse helped out their kids. Kids who were raised on military bases and have lived all around the world know people all around the world. They have a broader perspective, and often speak more languages. Yes, having one’s spouse away half the time (and in some assignments away all the time, or 4/5 of the time) is very difficult. It’s not for everyone.
    On the bad side, military installations aren’t typically in the best areas of the country. The “officer and a gentleman” depiction of the local ladies/meet market is real. And since the men are dating in the local market this can present a challenge. Dating within the services is even worse (military women tend to be a strange lot, and not the best lot, in general).

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Ed Hurst says:

    As a former Military Policeman, I can confirm Scott’s post here. Adultery as a military infraction was like leash laws: It’s there just in case something else goes wrong. I saw only a single case where the soldier was charged with adultery alone, simply because they couldn’t get evidence against him on anything else. And for Liz, I’ll say this: Living on the military installation used to be like that. You had all the benefits of flat out government-funded life support but with a fairly conservative cultural atmosphere. Overseas, it was like that no matter where you lived, with a strong community forming simply because virtually no one felt at home in the host nation community. From what I hear, though, this is falling apart quickly as the SJW crowd get their hands more firmly on military policy.

    Liked by 3 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      It’s also probably like that in the officers section on air force housing then all the undesirables the army recruits for its low iq jobs like fuel handlers, spoons and what not

      Liked by 1 person

    • SFC Ton says:

      That’s part of the equation

      Another part is… folks these days don’t have a since of time as in a year of “not ideal” seems like a life time of future misery

      And very few people are trained up to deal with hardships and moral delimias and what not

      So look they go through life fat dumb and happy and before you know it something comes up, there 1st semi serious test of character and they are. With no training to endure hardships and they fail the test

      Then you throw in all the other dysfunction and there you go….. though I am fairly sure I just described one aspect of that dysfunction up above vs coming up with some new piece of the puzzle

      Liked by 3 people

  9. redpillboomer says:

    Having been in the military, the thing with the marriages when a member deploys, the spouse left at home must be 1) Committed to the marriage, i.e. same values, etc 2) Be busy with something like raising the kids and/or working on her schooling/business/job, i.e. something goal oriented that soaks up her time, and 3) Looking forward to him/her (mostly him) returning from deployment then it cuts down on the cheating. I know a thirty something military couple, husband deployed six months to the middle east, she’s left home raising the two kids (both under 10 years old), AND working on her nursing studies to become an RN. She doesn’t have time to go f*ck the neighbor. Hubby comes home after six months and she can’t wait to see him. Kids too! Hubby gets home and wife jumps his bones so happy to have him back. Now, if they don’t have the same values, wife is sitting at home bored because she’s not sufficiently goal focused/goal absorbed, then she starts feeling deprived of attention/validation and voila, next thing you know she’s riding some Chad, Brad or Tyrone (actually probably a lesser version of those three studs-some military guy who didn’t deploy). Hubby comes home to find a wife who has left him already, wants to leave him, oris trying to create some sort of cuck situation. Doesn’t tell hubby so she can continue to have her bf/fwb on the side while pretending all is just normal and glad to have you home my Hero.

    Liked by 2 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      That’s part of the equation

      Another part is… folks these days don’t have a since of time as in a year of “not ideal” seems like a life time of future misery

      And very few people are trained up to deal with hardships and moral delimias and what not

      So look they go through life fat dumb and happy and before you know it something comes up, there 1st semi serious test of character and they are. With no training to endure hardships and they fail the test

      Then you throw in all the other dysfunction and there you go….. though I am fairly sure I just described one aspect of that dysfunction up above vs coming up with some new piece of the puzzle

      Did the 1st one in the wrong spot

      Liked by 2 people

  10. lastmod says:

    My uncle was a career USAF guy…..made chief master sergeant…..just about thirty years. His wife was Thai…..sometime in the 1970’s evidently she had a gambling problem……it “got around” on the base that she had this problem (Castle AFB in Atwater). My uncle was spoken to by an Officer to “get your wife in line, with your position on this base and with your squad, it is causing damage to your character”

    Those were the days…….

    Yeah, she got in line.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. Lexet Blog says:

    Part of the reason is extremely poor judgment among the lower enlisted. For some reason they are so “bored” with barracks life they become enamored with massive car payments and the local strippers, so they marry and buy them.

    At least the services force men to go through hoops to get married after they join.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. feeriker says:

    Part of the reason is extremely poor judgment among the lower enlisted. For some reason they are so “bored” with barracks life they become enamored with massive car payments and the local strippers, so they marry and buy them.

    It depends. Some are as you describe, others aren’t. It depends on 1) their socioeconomic background (which is as varied as it is in any civilian setting), 2) their individual life goals and priorities, 3) their intelligence levels (the occupational specialties engaged in by enlisted personnel range from menial labor [e.g., Navy Boatswain’s Mates] to advanced engineering requiring solid STEM skills [e.g., Navy Nuclear Systems Technicians]), 4) how they respond to peer pressure, positively or negatively.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. cameron232 says:

    My oldest almost signed up but he had a cyst he had to have removed – they said come back later but he seems to have changed his mind.

    “Be all that you can be…get an ugly wife, a messed up life…in the Army”

    Damon Wayans/Anton Jackson

    Liked by 2 people

  14. SFC Ton says:

    On why wives dry up after marriage

    Step one is…. women know deep down inside they aren’t particularly high value. If you married her you are showing her that you have low standards and are also not particularly high value

    Ie the whole concpet of marriage makes you beta in her eyes from day 1

    Then all the other stuff goes into play

    Liked by 4 people

  15. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    SFCTON
    You know why I can understand a little of what all of you married military guys have gone through right?
    Why does most people not know a majority of members of early motorcycle gangs in the 1920s&30s
    we’re actualy ex-ww1 guys,who had seen the horrors of war-time service &civilian life!?
    I like them, barely fit in any where!Hence the appeal of early hard rock&metal to ex-soldiers in the late ’60s &the 1970’s also which spoke of losing your mind in a liberalized insane world instead of its time for romance&marriage!

    Liked by 2 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      My paternal grandfather did the Harely thing after ww2

      My father rode with a 1% crew after Vietnam

      I grew up riding so I’m not sure I count but there are a ton of vets with bikes and in MC’s

      Less so today in the 1% world vs post Vietnam best I can tell but it’s still a thing.

      There are, I think, better opportunities for vets these days then my father’s time

      Liked by 2 people

  16. feeriker says:

    [T]he only advice I give to men in the current SMP/MMP is “if she is not clawing at you like she is starving to death and you are the only food in the room, next it.”

    Which 1) most men will never experience, and 2) even if they do, it will be something transitory in most women who react that way, a euphoric “high” that will wear off as soon as he becomes too familiar to her.

    That leaves prospects for most men extremely bleak.

    I understand why men cheat and walk away – I really do. When you don’t get that desire from your wife then you seek it with another woman.

    As I’ve said before, this, methinks, in part explains the origin of polygyny. If Wife #1 decides she “ain’t feelin’ it no more,” than the husband replaces (or more accurately “augments”) her with one who does, usually a “younger model.” Since legal polygyny obviously isn’t an option in the modern western world, the “piece on the side” or “mistress model” has arisen to replace it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • SFC Ton says:

      The threat of replacement is the ultimate in dread game..

      Modern family court laws have eradicated dread game for most men but dread game is key to keeping them lubed up

      Liked by 1 person

  17. feeriker says:

    Lesbian “marriages” have THE highest divorce rates – highest of all – much higher than gay men.

    They also have the highest rates of domestic violence.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    EVERYBODY
    Did’nt we forget one topic?
    The military is not built on military families!?
    Especialy with the low-recruitment numbers over the 19?years!?
    How much longer can this go unadressed by the pentagon?

    Like

  19. Pingback: The Spiritual Confusion of Clinging to the “Rules” | Σ Frame

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