The Christian Marriage Dilemma

Marrying a Christian woman won’t necessarily give you a Christian marriage.

Readership: All; Christian Men;
Length: 2,900 words
Reading Time: 10 minutes

Running the Gauntlet

Earlier in my life, as I was struggling with my choices in the marriage marketplace, a married, Christian lady who knew me rather well gave me some very wise advice, but it was also very confusing advice.

“You need a Christian marriage more than you need a Christian wife.”

At the time, I had no idea why she made a distinction between the two.  I struggled with this conflicting dichotomy for years, trying to make sense of it.

I had made a commitment to myself that I would only “date” women who were Christians with the intentions of marriage. I attended a Christian college which I thought would increase my chances of meeting someone appropriate. Although I must have “dated” close to 200 women during my college years — most all of them professing Christians — again and again, I found that these women had no Christian mental concept of purpose in dating and marriage. Instead, they had an unspoken assumption that sexual relations should commence within the first few “dates”, and some of them showed little restraint in this expectation. Over the years, I met several women who posed a significant temptation to engage in sexual relations. Since I was hesitant to go forward outside of marriage, I was invariably rejected.

For years, I endured this cycle of temptation and rejection, never getting anywhere closer to marriage. To say I was “tempted sore” (as the Bible describes) is a severe understatement. To make matters worse, my parents divorced while I was in college, and this made me more confused about what kind of woman would be right for me. By the time I reached my late 20s, I had become rather cynical about “dating” and angry at God.

Yes, I was Blue Pilled, as was every guy in my generation (Xers) at that time. Yes, I had my own set of problems and hang-ups, including generational curses and anger towards my mother for divorcing my dad. But I couldn’t understand why I should be excluded from the grace of God and the blessings of obedience and believing in God. I always had a creeping feeling that something wasn’t right, but I could never put my finger on exactly what it was.  I didn’t recognize how postmodernism had infiltrated the church and had morphed into Christianality.  I never realized that Christian women were entirely subsumed by the wider Western sex culture.  Actually, no one was cognitively aware of this back then.

Non-Christians who behave like Christians?

A few years later, I came to Taiwan and I met many women here who actually ACTED like what I had always envisioned a Christian woman to be like – soft-spoken, humble, demure, kindhearted, and honorable. They were community oriented, looking to help and serve others.  They were respectful to men and dutiful to the elderly.  They held a high regard for marriage and viewed sexual relations seriously.  They were also thin, attractive, and well dressed. I was astonished to discover that these women were not actually Christians!  They were Buddhists, Daoists, and some were agnostic.  What a shocker!*

In a controversial post, Why do Christian women have the reputation of being wh0res? (2019 February 23), I briefly described this strange phenomenon I had learned through my personal experience living in Taiwan – how the typical Asian Buddhist woman might make a better wife than the typical Western Christian woman.

“Even here in Asia, if a western guy wants to get laid, scoping out the local single women at the nearest Christian church will yield a better lay ratio than hitting up a bar. Many women go to Church for the sole purpose of meeting and slaking foreigners. If a man wants to have a “Christian marriage”, he’s wiser to marry a thin, mature, submissive, respectful, Buddhist woman, and lead her to Christ in the process. That’s no joke!  They are more likely to be loyal for life, because they take their wedding vows seriously.”

For the first time in my life, I was able to get a glimpse of what my friend was talking about – that I needed a Christian marriage more than I needed a Christian wife.  For a long time after I discovered this, I thought long and hard about how this could be true and how I might best implement this truth in my life.  Is it really “God’s will” for me to marry a non-Christian woman?  How could I share my Christian faith inside a marriage with a non-Christian wife?  Wouldn’t our children be confused?  I was still in a quandary.

* From this, it is apparent that cultural expectations and upbringing have a much stronger influence on women’s behavior than religious affiliation or devoutness.  I presume that genetics also plays a significant role.

Christians who behave like Non-Christians?

Deti said something that helps make sense of this.  In The Feminist Life Script (2020 December 17), he described why Christian women of the West are fundamentally less than Christian.

“All women, and I mean ALL women, born after about 1960 are marinated in feminism and are feminists.  All women in the US over the age of 25 are feminists, and I don’t care what anyone says to the contrary because it’s not true.  EVERY man who has gotten married in the last 40 years married a feminist.”

I think the answer to my quandary is contained in this paradox.  The Buddhist women I met in Taiwan were taught filial piety, which conditioned them to be obedient to God’s created order, whereas the (nominal) Christian women of the west were steeped in feminism and were thoroughly disobedient to God’s created order.  I have met a significant number of Muslim exchange students over the years, and from what I can see, they are also more obedient to God’s created order than Western “Churchians”, especially in the area of Headship.

In summary, whatever religion a woman claims to believe in doesn’t really mean as much as whether she is actually obedient to God in her daily living.  The way we’ve heard this truth expressed in Red Pill parlance is “Don’t listen to what women say.  Watch what they actually do.”  Likewise, women who claim to be Christians, and who may even quote scripture and attend church, but who also believe in Feminist ideology and/or follow the Feminist Life Script, fit under this bill.  They “talk the talk”, but they don’t “walk the walk”.  They may have an appearance of godliness, but they deny the power of conforming to God’s intended ideal of them being submissive wives and feminine mothers.

Nikole Mitchell, former church leader and OnlyFans celebrity.

How does Christianity Apply to the Current SMP/MMP?

In NovaSeeker’s previous post, The Sexual Market IS the Marriage Market (2021 February 22), it was concluded that, in the Western feminist culture, young people must run the gauntlet of the SMP before being eligible for the MMP. This is true even among Christians and within the church. When this social melee is compared to other cultures, as vividly exemplified by my own life experiences written above, we come to a very uncomfortable truth concerning both the Churchian social culture and Western culture (which are basically converged).

Marrying a Christian woman won’t necessarily give you a Christian marriage.

Several questions arise at this point.

  1. What actually makes a person a Christian?
  2. What motivates a person to be obedient (or disobedient)?
  3. Is having a Christian Marriage (i.e. Headship) really more important than having a Christian spouse?

The remainder of this post will explore these questions.

What actually makes a person a Christian?

Last year, I wrote a series of posts on the Purity Movement.  I was sad to see that, other than two posts in particular, these posts were not very popular.  In one post, The Elimination of the Church (2020 May 29), I wrote,

“Among those who were marginal or cultural Christians, it became fashionable to be more or less spiritually “preoccupied” with various Idols of the Tribe.  For example, those with a relatively high SMV were busy worshipping the fruits of the sexual revolution, and low SMV duds and snits were busy worshipping chivalry and feminism, respectively.”

There was a diffuse, unnamed fear that was prevalent within the Purity Movement.

“This fear caused a trifurcation of moral realism.  One group took abstinence to the prudish puritanical extreme and shot themselves in the foot in regards to their MMV.  Another group dabbled in sexual relations without “going all the way”, and used their technical virginity as a false psychological justification for remaining pure.  A third group was comprised of those who engaged in clandestine fornication and dealt with the stigma by either keeping it a secret, or else putting social distance between themselves and others in the Purity culture, all done in order to reduce the risk of possible exposure and the resulting shame.

Of course, some had already decided that they were going to explore their sexuality, and they could not handle the denial or duplicity of the second or third group respectively.  These individuals chose to leave the church altogether.

What we are seeing here is the failure of the Church to provide a functional social context in which young people can move towards marriage.  As a result, it became relatively impossible for the mating process to fit the traditional Christian mold of courtship. So because there was no framework set in place to mold the growth of their faith, they chased after their personal desires, in some form or fashion. All in all, young people within the church lost sight of what it means to be a Christian.

If we answered the question of what actually makes a person a Christian? strictly on the basis of who is obedient to God’s ordained order, then virtually no one in the West would qualify. Everyone has compromised in some form or fashion. It is impossible not to do so, because the entire western culture is built on an amalgamation of Greco-Roman-Gothic values that have been whitewashed with a veneer of Christian values. Only recently, have we seen the bitter fruit of this society revealed in the decay and decline of Western morality and the now obvious corruption of “Christianality”.  As things stand now, there are exceedingly few people, even among Christians, who really know what it means to be obedient.

Joshua Harris, former pastor and author of “I Kissed Dating Goodbye”.

What motivates a person to be obedient (or disobedient)?

The purpose of being obedient is to partake in the beauty and blessings of God’s ordained order and His divine plans for one’s life.  In order to be obedient, we must recognize and appreciate God’s creation, His order, and His plans. If a person doesn’t taste the flavor of this through the family of origin or church involvement, then it is easy to miss in the mess of secular cultural influences.

If a person has no joy in partaking in the beauty of God’s ordained order through being obedient… if a person doesn’t understand the purposes of being obedient in accordance with His divine plans for one’s life… nor possess any hope to obtain the blessings of obedience… if there is no glorious sense of identity in Christ, then obedience becomes little more than rigamarole rule keeping — a legalistic exercise in fruitless futility. The willpower alone may not be enough to restrain one from joining in the ways of this world.

On the other hand, the wider secular culture is blaring a loud message that meticulously lays out all the adventures and alluring ecstasies of being disobedient, complete with a beautiful life plan and purpose.

  • Liberal and profuse justifications of various deviations from morality abound (e.g. “single mothers need love too”; relaxed dress codes being the norm; the belief that love justifies immoral intimacy; etc.).
  • The immediate satisfactions of profligacy appear to outweigh the arduous task of denying the fleshly nature.
  • The value of exercising self-control has been replaced by the moxie of “Finding Yourself™”.
  • Delaying gratification with respect to a larger sense of purpose is regarded as prudish.
  • Drawing healthy boundaries has been suspended in favor of dissipation and lawlessness.
  • Propriety has waned and has been transformed into the “Fear of Missing Out™” (FOMO).
  • Any long term benefits of obedience become obscured and difficult, if not impossible to achieve.
  • Any rewards of obedience are summarily ignored, or otherwise presented as naïve abstractions which carry little guarantee of fulfillment.

All of these influences call us to worship the god of sexual identity by partaking in the freedom of fleshly pleasures and the soul numbing satisfactions of corruption.  Thus, the path of obedience has become exactingly legalistic and detached while barely promising infinitesimal benefits, while the path of disobedience is the ostensible working “solution”, portrayed as prevalent in the wider culture, and well justified.  Those who try to straddle the fence in an effort to obtain the best of both worlds have to swallow an assortium of lies to do so.

It stands to reason that the true Christian is the one who lives a life that is uniquely distinct from the world – in spite of the sacrifices. Yet, even this is commonly confused with Rousseau’s individualistic approach to life when God is totally omitted.

Is having a Christian Marriage (i.e. Headship) really more important than having a Christian spouse?

Going back to my story in the beginning of this post, it is clear that I was faced with a difficult choice of compromises with no clear answer.

  1. A nominally “christian” woman who has been steeped in the doctrines of feminism and materialism since her childhood, who is deeply entrenched in worldly values and lifestyles, and who, at some level, is at war against men and God’s ordained order of Patriarchy.
  2. A non-Christian woman who embraces Christian practices, such as Headship, and is already familiar with living a life in obedience to God’s created order.  Such a woman may or may not be willing to convert to Christianity.
  3. There is a third choice, even more uncomfortable than either of the first two.  Continue waiting for a Christian woman who has the mind and habits necessary to build a Christian marriage. In my case, I waited for nearly two decades without finding anyone to my liking.  Eventually, I buckled under the temptation and ran the gauntlet properly. I also had a failed first marriage.

Granted, this may be painting a false dichotomy with a broad brush, but the overall differences should now be clear to my readers. 

When men are faced with the question, “Which kind of mate would you prefer?”, the answers come down to something like this.

  1. A Christian woman from a feminist culture, who has the mind of an arrogant 16-year-old girl, and acts like a slore?
  2. A (insert other religion here) woman from a patriarchal culture, who talks like a lady, and acts like a Christian?*
  3. Marry your fist, and forego having a wife altogether.

Choice 1 is the wide road leading to destruction which many western men have walked.
Choice 2 is difficult to find, and tortuously arduous in the adjustment.
Choice 3 is basically MGTOW, 30+ years of masturbation, and no family nor children when you are older.

Which one would you choose?  Any choice you make requires some type of sacrifice.

* There are Christian alternatives, such as joining the Amish or starting your own commune, but implementing this type of option is just as difficult as searching for a wife abroad.

Conclusion

In his post, On the ethics of teenage marriage (2020 December 18), NovaSeeker answered the fundamental question of how to navigate this dilemma.

“It comes down to how much we are of the world, how compromised we are with it, how different we are willing to be from it.  Each of us makes our own decisions in these areas. I say that not to point fingers — I am personally no sort of “ultra” in these regards, not at all. But I do think we need to realize that we are all compromised by the culture, and we should resist the temptation to baptize or otherwise bless/sanctify our own reasoned compromises with the culture in which we live, rather than seeing them as just that — personal compromises that we personally judge as being appropriate, based on the culture in which we live and its broader standards.  How that fits into our own personal approach to living in the world, but not of it, is necessarily ensconced within the particular time and place of our culture, including all of the norms of said culture.”

As NovaSeeker wrote, under the present circumstances, it is a matter of how much (or how little) one is willing to compromise with the culture in which we live.

Readers might be disappointed with this conclusion if they try to correlate any compromise at all with a lack of true faith. Whether this is true depends on the context. The reality is that there is no perfect solution. Some type of compromise is inevitable as a cost of opportunity.  In fact, God intended life to be this way so that we would break free from the logical contraptions of our minds and realize faith.

If you’re struggling with the unsatisfactory choices described in this post, and the degree of compromise is your biggest concern, then your faith is not fully formed. You’ll always suffer from the regret of making one choice over another, and the bitterness of being forced to choose will eat away at your soul. You’ll be double minded, and you’ll miss the grace of God.

Instead of focusing on how much or how little we compromise, we need to get in touch with the Spirit of God, because there is no way to justify ourselves in this mess through our own logic, good choices, and self-discipline. The practical application comes down to your individual convictions about the issues in question and what you believe is God’s purpose for your life.

When making a choice, what does your heart tell you (your heart, not your mind) will glorify God and lead to your inner peace with God, your redemption, and sanctification in this present life?

If you are unfamiliar with this Heart-Led approach to faith, then I strongly suggest that you read Ed Hurst’s posts at Do What’s RightAnd pray!

Related

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Asia, Attraction, Authenticity, Boundaries, Building Wealth, Choosing a Partner or Spouse, Clothing, Confidence, Convergence, Courtship and Marriage, Cultural Differences, Decision Making, Desire, Passion, Determination, Discernment, Wisdom, Enduring Suffering, Feminism, Freedom, Personal Liberty, Game Theory, Glory, Headship and Patriarchy, Hypergamy, Identity, Introspection, Joy, Love, Male Power, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Models of Success, Moral Agency, Organization and Structure, Power, Purity Culture, Purpose, Racial Relations, Relationships, Running the Gauntlet, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, Stewardship, Strategy, Taiwan, The Power of God, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

112 Responses to The Christian Marriage Dilemma

  1. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    JACK
    You speak so much truth here about non-christians who act like christians.You know that 6 year old g.f. grew into later a moderate feminist professor right?I bet you knew it was true what I said in my first comment here that I have only been knowing about DALROCK/GBFMtm/MANOSPHERE since march/april 2012.I also said this in my first SHARKLY comment too!People can not tell when I’am joking around?See me telling you to quote MOSES&JESUS like GBFMtm would?He came out in summer of 2010 at ROISSY’s!See also how much more serious I have been over the last few days also?But getting back to the post my non-christian first G.F. was always demure with myself or else I would’nt have been with her!You do know alot JACK!Keep up the good work!P.S.You know my moderate feminist G.F. was actualy sauing on her facebook account to give trump a fair hearing in nov,2016!Alot of self-styled christians were not!JACKP.S.I just woke up about 30 minutes ago and saw the new post up jack!After 4 hours of sleep as has its been for the last week!

    Like

  2. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    JACK
    You are absolutely right on non-christians acting more like a christian than a christian!

    Liked by 3 people

  3. cameron232 says:

    OT. The biggest relationship mistake women make is they’re not bitchy enough – too compliant, too nice. I found this link along with this skeptical headline :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9296155/Why-men-love-bitches.html

    “New book which tells women how to become a “bitch” because men won’t stay with submissive women, tops the best seller list. All of the hype is fake, and it is all designed to trick women into being reduced to r-strategists.”

    A bitch, that’s what I really wanted all along! Best lines from the article:

    “I wrote two bestselling books — Why Men Love Bitches (2003) and Why Men Marry Bitches (2017) — specifically for women who are too nice, needy, nurturing or available. Which is lots of women, because that is how we have been socially conditioned to behave.”

    “Online dating has made it easy for men to get sex with the swipe of a finger.”

    Lastmod, get off your arse and start swiping – it’s easy.

    This lady – a unique combination of reality inversion and making sh!t up. Sunday Times bestseller gentlemen.

    Sorry for the distraction from your excellent post, Jack.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Novaseeker says:

      This lady – a unique combination of reality inversion and making sh!t up. Sunday Times bestseller gentlemen.

      Nah, she’s not wrong — you just have to understand what she is specifically talking about.

      She is talking about how to reel men in, and her idea is that it is not a great strategy to try to reel men in with easy sex, because that gives men what they want for a low price. That’s true.

      Of course, her approach will only work with men for whom the woman in question is not easily replaced. So her strategy doesn’t work with the men who are most desired — because a woman who acts like this will get a “next”, since there is always an equally attractive replacement standing right behind her, waiting her turn to try to snag him. In order for this to work with a highly desired man, the woman has to be very, very attractive herself, and most women like that got the memo about bitchiness long before this book was written, for the obvious reasons she states here.

      Her approach, though, works with the thirsty betas. Don’t give them sex, be challenging, be difficult. Be like a 5-par hole on the golf course — challenging, lots of traps, time-consuming, but there’s always the pin flag at the end giving you a glimmer of hope. That’s what she’s talking about, and it’s very effective if the woman is attractive enough to the man, and the man is thirsty enough, so that she can pull it off. If she does, she frames up the relationship totally in her own frame, with the man qualifying for her, and so it’s a total, 100% dominance win for her.

      Now, whether that makes her happy in the long term is something else. But it is a very effective approach for snagging and bagging a thirsty beta male into a relationship whereby you dominate him psycho-sexually pretty reliably, provided he desires you enough (i.e., sees you as hard to replace) for you to pull it off.

      Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Yeah I kept thinking her “interviews” which were probably cherry picked (if not outright faked) ones with whiteknightcucks.

        So I apologize to Jack for at one point picking at the Sigma Frame thing. Yeah, to be a sigma is to be a (potential beta) who says (f_ck this sh_t). A redpill-aware beta I guess. Is that the point of Sigma Frame?

        My favorite line is the last one:

        “Even so, the effect of my books was summed up perfectly by a father who happened to read one of them before giving it to his daughter. He playfully said: ‘I’d want my daughter to read your books but I would never want my wife to read them.”

        Why not? If bitches are attractive to men why wouldn’t men want their wives to read her book and channel her inner bitch? It’s hilarious. Men imposed the “encourage them to be compliant” old culture she hates. If the encourage her to be a bitch thing produced women men were attracted to why wouldn’t men have imposed that? Yeah, we want to encourage women to be something we’re not attracted to. WTF?

        Like

      • Novaseeker says:

        Yeah, we want to encourage women to be something we’re not attracted to. WTF?

        She’s talking about power, not “ideal mates”. She’s talking about how to get, and keep, “hand” in a relationship, from the women’s perspective. That’s why the father wants it for his daughter (she is in control then, not whatever worthless loser male happens to marry his precious princess), but not for his wife (he doesn’t want to be subject to her control/hand). It’s about viewing relationships through the lens of power.

        A man can be attracted to a woman who is in power over him, or to a woman who is not. That is not what she is really talking about. What she is talking about is taking a man who finds you attractive and using that to control him, and thereby control the relationship.

        It’s a given that the man is attracted.

        Liked by 3 people

      • thedeti says:

        she frames up the relationship totally in her own frame, with the man qualifying for her, and so it’s a total, 100% dominance win for her.

        Now, whether that makes her happy in the long term is something else.

        Yes, she “wins” in terms of running the relationship how she wants. She controls sex. She controls his actions and responses – decides what is acceptable and what is not.

        Of course this makes her miserable long term. She got this relationship not because it’s what she really wanted, but because it’s what she believed she needed at the time. “Men hurt me. Men did me dirty. Men used me and left me. That’s not ever happening to me again. So instead of letting him do things, I’ll run them myself. Any man who gets with me is doing it all 100% my way, everything is under my control, i make all the decisions, it’s all my show or he’s gone.” She’s not satisfied with this either.

        The men this strategy attracts are thirsty betas, as you said. More attractive men with options will not put up with this for one minute.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        OK Nova so my question is: is she actually fooled by her own advocacy for power in relationships – actually fooled into thinking men find bitchiness attractive and leave submissive women? Does she believe these things or does she know it’s BS? Besides the point of wanting to sell books for cash.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        actually fooled into thinking men find bitchiness attractive and leave submissive women? Does she believe these things or does she know it’s BS? Besides the point of wanting to sell books for cash.

        She means it, but she is using the word differently from how you and I are. She is using it to mean “does the guy pay attention to you, do what you want, pursue you, and stay interested” — that is how she is defining “attraction”. In all scenarios she is describing the guy is already visually/physically attracted — the issue she is addressing is not that, but rather the issue that arises when women give such men easy sex. It’s how she is defining “attraction” that is different from how you are — she is not defining it as “allure”, she is defining it as “keeping a guy who is visually attracted to you, already, interested in you over a longer period of time, chasing you, doing what you want, and on your terms”. It’s a given that the guy is already attracted, in the sense we mean of “allured”. She isn’t claiming (or at least doesn’t seem to be) that a woman who is not visually/physically attractive to a man can make a man physically attracted to her anyway by treating him like a bitch.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        F_ck me you need a Klingon-ese to English translator to understand what women are saying.

        So what about her belief that the submissive yes women get left by men? Really believes this or some wierd translation required.

        See I believe your interpretation of her but as far as her “interviews” of men and their answers I think she made that sh!t up.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Novaseeker says:

        So what about her belief that the submissive yes women get left by men? Really believes this or some wierd translation required.

        What she is saying is that the men are more empowered, so they will eventually lose interest to another woman who is equally attractive, but makes herself more of a challenge. That is what she is saying there. Whether that is true depends on a lot of factors, most of them relating to the guy’s personality, and his actual options (are there other women who are equally attractive who are doing that, or not). She’s using “attraction” here in the sense of “interested in pursuing actively” and so she is saying that as between two women who are equally visually attractive, the woman who plays harder to get will get/keep the man’s attention more. That depends on his personality, I think, but it is true with at least some men, if they find another attractive option.

        In any case she is using “attractive” as women tend to use it — it assumes physical/visual attraction (because that’s obvious and doesn’t need to be discussed), and instead when they use the word they are talking about other qualities that get the desired effect of keeping the man interested in you and not some other woman.

        Liked by 4 people

      • thedeti says:

        DIscussion between Cam and Nova is yet more evidence that

        1) Women use “attractive” and “attraction” differently from how men use it.

        2) Women approach relationships based on what they get out of them

        3) Women really don’t understand what men want and need.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        DIscussion between Cam and Nova is yet more evidence that

        1) Women use “attractive” and “attraction” differently from how men use it.

        That’s a given. From a woman’s perspective, her own attractiveness is not a question, because she gets instant feedback from men, in person, all the time. Women note carefully how many men are noticing, and what kinds of men notice (i.e., how attractive the men are). They know whether they are generally attractive and generally what level of man that “ends” or “lessens” at as well. Keenly. So there isn’t any need to write about it. They do write a lot about how to beautify themselves, but they don’t write a lot about what is attractive to men in that visual sense (unless they are writing to complain about it, a la “unrealistic beauty standards”), because they know very well what that is.

        Therefore when they say such and such will attract a man, they don’t mean that. They mean “keep his interest once you have caught his eye” or “make him pick you and not thot-girl”, etc.

        Just like when they list qualities they like about men they mention everything but his being 6’2″, buff, athletic and so on … that’s all “understood”. It’s the other stuff they write about — stuff that’s “in addition to” what to them is obvious.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Nova, “From a woman’s perspective, her own attractiveness is not a question, because she gets instant feedback from men, in person, all the time…..They know whether they are generally attractive”

        You don’t think women chronically overestimate their attractiveness? I do. I keep seeing these fatties that squeeze into the same tiny clothes that cute girls do with their fat rolls spilling out. I wish I could give them the feedback I want to – “cover up, lard@ss!” Maybe the attractive girls that get honest feedback know.

        Some outliers but dudes will take the less bitchy girl given two equally attractive girls 90% of the time. It was evident that Tomi Lahren’s beau that dumped her complained about her being difficult – she complained about men’s complaints about her “difficulty” (and her friends’).

        I think this woman just wrote these crap books for girlpower reasons (and to sell books). Also, she may have F’d-up her chance with alpha Chad and we know women love it when they can get other women to replicate their mistakes with men.

        If you’re right about these female-to-male translations, then most men have no hope for understanding. I could read what you write a thousand times but next time some female code-language crap comes up I’ll be clueless. I just don’t have your mind for this stuff and I’m not the dumbest guy in the world.

        Liked by 2 people

      • SFC Ton says:

        You don’t think women chronically overestimate their attractiveness
        ……..

        There is a whole host of desperate mofo’s ready to bang that land whale.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        You don’t think women chronically overestimate their attractiveness? I do. I keep seeing these fatties that squeeze into the same tiny clothes that cute girls do with their fat rolls spilling out.

        A woman may dress in certain clothes for various reasons, but a woman certainly knows how many men are checking her out, at all times and in all situations. They also know when it starts to die down. Many, many, many women have written about this, how they noticed at some point that they were drawing fewer eyes, and they dislike it. They know.

        A woman who is squeezing into a dress that is too tight is getting some feedback she likes. You can rest assured of that. To her, that is better than getting no feedback. You can tell the women who don’t care about feedback because they dress down, way down, so as not to entice any men to look at them — it’s easily done, and you see women doing it.

        It was evident that Tomi Lahren’s beau that dumped her complained about her being difficult – she complained about men’s complaints about her “difficulty” (and her friends’).

        Remember what I said in my first post on this … it works with thirsty betas, not with guys who have a lot of options. Guys who have a lot of options will “next” a bitchy woman, as I said. Lahren isn’t dating thirsty betas, she’s trying for NFL players. So she gets nexted. Makes sense to me. A thirsty beta would not next Tomi Lahren for acting bitchy.

        I think this woman just wrote these crap books for girlpower reasons

        Sure, it’s all about power in relationships — that’s clear. It’s about getting the man to do what you want.

        If you’re right about these female-to-male translations, then most men have no hope for understanding.

        It’s not that hard, but it’s just that with women you always have to pay at least as much attention, if not more, to what is NOT being said as to what IS being said. Women tend to speak indirectly. Even a woman who appears to be speaking directly, for a woman, will generally not be speaking nearly as directly and openly as a man typically would be in the same situation. Women are indirect communicators. A lot of communicated by what they don’t specifically say — by what they leave out. You have to always ask “what is not being expressly said here but is important”, because that is a significant part of what she is communicating. She expects you to “just get it” because women “just get” what they are not saying, and they prefer not to say it for various reasons. In this case, it seems to me to be fairly innocuous because the women she is directing the book towards know whether they are getting the men’s visual attention or not — they aren’t reading the book to learn how to catch a man’s attention visually, so that kind of “attractive” isn’t what she is discussing, and that is obvious to women.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        yeah – I’m starting to get that – you have to fill in the blanks. I married a weird one – she pretty much says what she means.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        Yeah I worked in an all-female work group for around 15 years. I was the only guy in a group of 12-15 women (number changed over time). I became very well versed in indirect communication. At some point it became entertaining watching them all interact at, say, a staff meeting, trying to say things without actually saying them, directly, watching them read the other women’s faces as they were talking to determine whether and how much they needed to get more or less direct in what they were saying. It was like watching an improvised verbal ballet, really …. and all utterly alien to the way men generally communicate or receive communication from others.

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        OK so they encrypt communication by using codewords/different word meanings and they leave things out. THey do this to deceive men? Deceive other women?

        Like

      • Novaseeker says:

        OK so they encrypt communication by using codewords/different word meanings and they leave things out. THey do this to deceive men? Deceive other women?

        Not deceive, no. The intention is normally to say things in such a way as to not be so direct as to (1) offend someone, (2) place themselves in a bad light, (3) trigger an adverse reaction. Of course women lie just like men do — they can and do intentionally deceive. But the indirect communication style, in my own experience, isn’t done to deceive but to communicate things in a way that doesn’t cause feathers to ruffle.

        We tend to be more direct and plain spoken and tend to prefer that, other than in very specific settings with a set decorum that demands something else. Women tend to not be like that.

        In any case, in this case the word “attraction” was not being used as code or to deceive. It was being directed to women, who are the audience for her book (it isn’t written for men, obviously). No woman would think she is referring to attracting a man’s visual attention by being a bitch, so they wouldn’t be confused by her using the word “attract” there — they know what she means by it. Men can be confused by that use of the word, I think, but she wasn’t writing for men.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      @ Cameron,
      This article describes one woman’s account of how women can use their sexual authority over men to monopolize power over him. It is obviously an abuse of both authority and power. Personally, I would call it witchcraft. It is is also a good example of how bad(ly) men seek after women who hold sexual authority over them, even if it means forfeiting their power.

      Read this post for more on this dynamic.
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/enslaved-to-her-sexual-authority/

      Liked by 4 people

    • thedeti says:

      a unique combination of reality inversion and making sh!t up.

      Women crave security and status in much the same way men crave sex and sexual contact. That’s why books like the Bitch books succeed. (See also The Rules – from the 80s or 90s. Pretty much the same advice. Be a bitch. Be hard to get. Be unavailable by disappearing for a few days. Make him chase you. Make him follow your rules. Lead him where you want him to go. Use his sexual attraction to you to manipulate him.)

      Women absolutely MUST have two things – personal safety/financial security; and social status, mostly with other women. Women will do anything to get those two things. And it is a huge failure for a woman when she cannot get them or has them and loses them.

      Women get safety/security from a man. Women get status by marrying a man.

      The first is pretty self explanatory. She gets with a man long term because he is better able to protect her than she can herself, and because she’s even more vulnerable with kids. She also needs his money to feed the kids. He’s there to keep her and the kids from dying or getting killed. The best and easiest way to get this is to get a man to do the heavy lifting workwise and financially. She could do it, but men still do it much better than women do.

      The prime way women get status is through marriage to the best all around man she can get. And key to this is that he has to have money and resources. Who are the guys who have these resources AND are of marriage age AND are looking for women? Thirsty betas.

      Relevant here is that the thirsty betas we’re talking about are usually heavy on the beta comfort traits, especially conscientiousness, industriousness, prudence, reliability, predictability, kindness, future time oriented, and family oriented. These are the men with stable jobs and careers, they work hard at those jobs, they usually have racked up some achievements in those jobs, they make good money at those jobs, they’ve accumulated some material resources, they can plan months and years in advance, they’re good stewards of what they’ve earned. They are also usually high agreeable because that’s how most men succeed in corporate/industry world. They are rules followers, they take orders, they execute orders faithfully, and just all around get sh!t done.

      These men make perfect husbands and fathers. It’s just that they don’t tend to be the good leaders, boyfriends, and sex partners these women ALSO want and expect.

      And so, women will hold their noses, pick one of these guys, and marry them. Why? Because she likes him well enough, because they get along pretty well, because he does what she asks/demands, because he has what she needs (even if not much of what she wants), and, importantly, because he puts up with her sh!t and he sticks around.

      And because marriage gives her status she can get in no other way. She cannot get status from her job. She doesn’t get it from having great and cool friends. She doesn’t get it from her hobbies or even from her physical appearance. The only opinions that matter to women are those of other women. And women judge each other and confer and deny status on one another based primarily on the kinds and types of men each of them can get and keep. “And keep” is vital here as well – because women all know they can get handsome attractive men to sleep with them. But the REAL status tell, the facts that doesn’t lie, is the kind of man she can get to stay with her. Because she ain’t getting safety or security from Alpha McGorgeous. She ain’t getting Harley McBadboy’s cashola (what little Harley has). Frank Fratboy isn’t sticking around to sire and father her kids. Because they won’t give her the two things she MUST have as a woman, she will have to look downward to the men who can and will – Billy Beta, Tom Teacher, Louie Lawyer, Paul Plumber, Ernie Engineer.

      Most women will confer status on outward appearance. And to outward appearances, Billy, Tom, Louie, Paul, and Ernie do just fine as husbands because they have resources, they have stability, and most importantly, they are here, they’re still here, and they’re not somewhere else with someone else.

      Women consider it an enormous failure if they cannot get a man to stick with them. And women deny status to women who couldn’t get a man to stick with them. This is a huge mental and psychological mind f*ck for women. It really is. Women really REALLY do not like it when the sisterhood denies them a place in the inner circle. The women at the bottom of the heap statuswise are never married mothers, and just above them are never married women.

      Worse yet, if she can’t get a man to do the heavy lifting on safety and security, she must do it herself. Or she must get some man or men somewhere, anywhere, to contribute. If she can’t get a man to stay, she will get some of his money and buy safety and security.

      This is what leads to desperation and panic and marrying men they’re not attracted to. This is what leads to the OASIS – OnlyFans, sugaring, and sex work. She absolutely has to find some way to tap into men’s resources, and the only way to do it is to marry a man she doesn’t want so she gets all his money, or get a group of men each to give her a little money.

      This is why The Bitch books and “The Rules” work. Because it attracts men to give her what she needs and next to none of what she wants.

      Liked by 4 people

      • thedeti says:

        A woman’s real value lies not in the men she can get to sleep with her. No, her real, actual value, is in the kinds and types of men she can get to stay with her and spend money on her. All women know this.

        Women absolutely hate admitting to themselves that they couldn’t get men they really wanted to stay with them. Because it means they are of lesser value. They know it, their friends know it, and all the women they know find subtle ways to remind them of it Because that’s what enforces the female status hierarchy.

        Liked by 4 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      Women communicate in very direct manner.

      They want you and are trying to please you.

      Or they don’t. In which case they don’t place any value on you.

      Like

  4. lastmod says:

    so the bible is wrong when it says do not be unequally yoked? Paul / God / Jesus “didn’t really mean it that way”

    And besides…….

    My unlce married a Thai woman in 1970. Buddhist. Still together, but hardly a marriage worth emulating.

    Like

    • Sharkly says:

      “So the bible is wrong when it says do not be unequally yoked?”
      Much like in the comments about women’s conversation above, Jack didn’t come right out and say that, but in what Jack did write, finding a steel-minded Christ-obeying wife in your own neighborhood, wasn’t really mentioned as a viable option, outside of joining the Amish or some other insular group that doesn’t trust outsiders, for good reason.

      I understand Jack’s frustration with the unworkable situation so many Western men find themselves in. However you are right to point out that he is basically writing off certain options of following God’s way, because of the great personal cost. And you yourself have written off certain of your options without actually trying them, Like : “Move to Asia / Eastern Europe learn the language, culture”. Your chances of finding a loyal wife over there are much better, and for you personally, the language barrier might actually help mask your social awkwardness. I’ve seen some pretty nerdy men marry some hot foreign women that don’t understand a lot of what they say. And trust me, I respect you as a man, and I see your difficult struggle, I’m not trying to be insulting, just saying it how I see it.

      That’s what your truly God-fearing bros will be for, to understand you and encourage you, and sharpen you. The Eastern wife, with whom you will have linguistic difficulty communicating, will be there for sex, procreation, cooking and cleaning, which she vows to you, expecting provision, protection, and that you will open jars with tight lids, and grab stuff for her that she points at on the top shelf. No you won’t be “soulmates”, but you can be her mysterious foreign husband. I presume that marrying a good woman who was kind to you, and respectful, would alleviate much of your social angst, just like how, in reverse, my marriage to a continually evil wife has resulted in making me much more challenging for other people to get along with. I wasn’t previously like how I am now, it took over a decade of constant marital abuse to mold me into the man I am today.

      Much like women who have not married prior to the wall, their pool of options quickly dries up, and you, passing 50 without even a serious girlfriend or a huge pile of resources, doesn’t leave you with all the fairytale options of a young frat-boy. Your prospects for marriage appear grim, if you even want to still pursue them. But you need to make a plan (for marriage or singleness) and pursue it, otherwise you’re just relying on dwindling happenstance to deliver you from your current suffering.

      I really do feel for you in this rotten dilemma, and I understand that for much of your life you tried to do things the best you knew how and got nowhere. But, unless Jesus returns, things aren’t going to get straightened out here before you die or find yourself in a care home, so don’t spend time in self pity or anger over the “spilled milk”, just figure out what is your best path forward and take it. Vaya con Dios. Go with God.

      Liked by 3 people

  5. lastmod says:

    You chirstians ALWAYS make exceptions to the rules for yourselves and then expect the world, or “other” christians to maintain this “standard” that you yourself cannot even achieve.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. lastmod says:

    “Lastmod, get off your arse and start swiping – it’s easy.”

    So was Game, so was PUA, so was “speed dating” so was just getting “confidence” so was, was just-walking-up-to-women-and-asking-them-out-cause-they-don’t-bite, so was just waiting your time and “your time will come”, and so was getting “advice” from women about women…..so easy! So was joining a church, so was having dark triads, so was having a variety of interests, so was being alpha…..

    all easy! No problem!

    Ah…….depends on who is doing above things! One of the men in here? ALl the men who comment on Rollo? Easy…nine and tens, IOI’s daily! Tons of offers for sex! Tons of opportunities!

    The rest of us? The lower 80%

    “you’re just not trying / you like being a blue pilled simp! Move to Asia / Eastern Eurpoe learn the language, culture, get a really, really good STEM job and you will meet a 18 year old virgin who just wants babies and will follow your “leadership”

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Well yeah, you get fed bullsh!t by men AND women – just wanted to show a female example.

      Just like Tommy Lahren’s rant, when she says “men” she means alpha males. Alphas and maybe a few greater betas who manage to barely sneak through her hypergamy filter.

      Actual men (the majority of them) are only humanoid-like beings who pay taxes, fix broken sewer pipes and her car, collect her garbage ….. and stay the hell away from her. Like you learned at Banana Republic. I hear you, I really do.

      Liked by 4 people

      • lastmod says:

        That situation at Banana Republic was minor. In my twenties that would have caused days of “the blues” at my age? Nothing really. I was at least 12 years older than her. At least. I’m balding, face is showing my actual age……..even if I was the most confident (cough…arrogant) guy around, it still wouldn’t change the fact she was a snob, and even if I had all the trappings (looks, confidence……) I would at least have the common sense of not even wanting to date or get involved with a woman like her. That’s wisdom, Something the most alpha of men in here seem to lack….

        Liked by 3 people

      • Tommy wants a hunky billionaire to wife her up and is super angry that her looks and “skills” won’t get her the deal she wants.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Tommy-girl is so beatiful and hot – that means she deserves megaChad. And she’s rich and on TV – so that elevates it to gigaChad. How’d that work out for her?

        Liked by 2 people

  7. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    Clarification
    Most of what is called WESTERN SOCEITY&CHURCH today is a heavily exaggerated version of pagan fertility cults I.E.ORGIES& SACRED PROSTITUTION!(Pompei looks like the town of mayberry compared to most of it!)!Hence why asians &eastern eurpeans seem more like real christians right jack?P.S.STEM JOBS?thats wintery knight?&some others, whos saying that here!?

    Liked by 1 person

    • feeriker says:

      Historians got it all wrong. Constantine didn’t convert to Christianity, he converted the Christians to Roman paganism by getting them to adopt its institutional trappings while making them believe that they had finally conquered the Empire. An absolutely ingenious move on his part, one for which he has never been given the proper credit by history.

      Liked by 2 people

      • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

        FERRIKER
        That is most definitely true but most christians refuse to see it to their own destruction!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Sharkly says:

        Yes, Constantine and some of his successors coopted the church into Roman paganism, including fertility goddess worship.(Mary “Queen of Heaven”) Consequently today’s protestant and orthodox churches which were born from the “Mother of Harlots”, practice the elevation/worth-ship of female sexuality above the commands of God. They really do worship female sexuality, or as I like to put it, they’re c*nt-worshippers.

        Try getting a priest/pastor to order your wife to have sex with you in the name of Jesus Christ, in accordance to 1 Corinthians 7:2-5, or face church discipline. It won’t happen! Her lack of vagina tingles overrides the will of the Lord of all spirits and all flesh. Or more clearly put, her vagina tingles, or lack thereof, are treated as the will of a higher deity. Always!

        I do not recommend the following links, but provide them just to preempt any who may claim that the orthodox churches aren’t full of Marian-cult leftovers. In their own words:
        https://russian-faith.com/explaining-orthodoxy/mary-mother-god-queen-heaven-in-bible-n1570

        https://russian-faith.com/explaining-orthodoxy/what-bible-says-about-mary-mother-god-queen-heaven-perpetual-virgin-n1830

        Oddly, they don’t even hide that they adore Mary as “Queen of Heaven”, exactly like the Old Testament idolaters denounced in Jeremiah 7:18 and in Jeremiah 44:17-25.

        Liked by 3 people

  8. lastmod says:

    “Although I must have “dated” close to 200 women during my college years…”

    Life is just so rough for you guys…..

    Like

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      EVERYBODY
      How many women have I ever claimed to have dated?I have talked mostly to dozens of under age 25 women,mostly nurses at hospitols&physical(For ischemic brain-stroke,not for torn bicep muscles) rehab ficilities,but have barely cared enough other than that!Your right about wisdom with women!I have never said otherwise!I have never also said women will find every guy exciting either!Was ROOSH V. wrong when he said in 2012? that women demand to be entertained especialy considering the last 30 years assortment of women ?Clearly no!I know life is s#$$ for most men today!It has just gotten much worser as time goes on that’s all!If all this was’nt true than what else explains most men staying home &shrugging their shoulders?

      Liked by 3 people

    • cameron232 says:

      I had three dates with a girl in HS and didn’t lay a hand (or lips) on her. No chemistry. Then my wife. Not all alpha studs here or even greater betas.

      Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      Among the frequent commenters there’s one alpha here (not counting hubby of our valued female regular commenter). The rest of us are (probably) beta males. Why do you think most are divorced or nearly so. Beta is not an insult (or at least shouldn’t be) – it means normal guy.

      Liked by 2 people

      • feeriker says:

        Using the Vox Day Greek Letter Categorization Scale, most of us here would probably be classified as Deltas.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        @ feeriker

        I’m so Delta, I could be an airline. I’m like the living personification of Steady Eddy the Engineer. And, you know what? I have no desire to be anything else.

        My place is to give my Lord a return on the talents (Matt 25), or the minas (Luke 19) He gave me. It’s not my place to question my Lord about the talents or minas He chose to not give me, and whining about it won’t do me any good anyway.

        Liked by 4 people

      • cameron232 says:

        I don’t know about Vox’s greek letter designations. Forget the letters. Three types: “Yes”/”Maybe”/”No”. “Maybe” means “negotiable.”

        Being in the “maybe”/”negotiable” category (most men here) means women have power over you under current law and culture.

        If there’s a silver lining to being in the “no” category it’s that they don’t have any power over you.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        Being in the “maybe”/”negotiable” category (most men here) means women have power over you under current law and culture. ~ Cameron

        Women divorce ultra-high-status men, and take their stuff, all the time. Back to Eddie Murphy’s “Umfufu” bit: the reason he said he’d go to Africa to find a wife is because Johnny Carson’s wife divorced him and took half his stuff.

        Unsurprisingly, it happened to Eddie Murphy, too. Probably because he married a model, not an Umfufu.

        Just kidding.

        Anyway, the point is that women have legal and cultural authority over men regardless of the man’s status, except for men who deliberately avoid women.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        @Oscar. In terms of socio-sexual hierarchy as I’m describing it, alpha doesn’t mean high status, rich or famous. It means “makes ’em wet.” What I’m saying is it’s easy for these men to remain outside women’s sexual authority by not committing since they have near limitless options (sexually) speaking. The gamma is the mirror image – if he can’t get a girl, they have no sexual authority over him.

        My other main point too was not to complicate the hierarchy like Vox does.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        In terms of socio-sexual hierarchy as I’m describing it, alpha doesn’t mean high status, rich or famous. It means “makes ’em wet.”

        I’m pretty sure those high status, rich, famous men “make ’em wet”. In his day, Johnny Carson made plenty of women wet, as did Eddie Murphy. Same with Channing Tatum, and a host of others.

        What I’m saying is it’s easy for these men to remain outside women’s sexual authority by not committing since they have near limitless options (sexually) speaking.

        And yet, for some reason they keep committing. Even if they don’t, “Me Too” respects no man. A man who exercises his sexual options makes himself vulnerable to “Me Too” accusations, even if for no reason other than the woman feels scorned.

        The only way to avoid women’s legal authority is to avoid them completely. That’s not to say that every man should avoid women, but I understand why some men exercise that option.

        Liked by 1 person

      • SFC Ton says:

        Fair certain I’ve held every position in the SMP tier at one time or another… most of those ups and downs being when I was married.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      Life is just so rough for you guys…..

      First, who’s “you guys”?

      Second, I could say the same to you. Were you born in the Third World under a brutal dictatorship? No.

      Is your earliest memory of the day when a civil war reached your town? No.

      Did Communists take over your country and make it even worse than it was under the dictatorship that was in charge when you were born? No.

      Did the Communists threaten to kill your dad? No.

      Did your family have to flee your homeland for a country where you didn’t even speak the language? No.

      Were you dirt poor, growing up in inner city neighborhoods where you could hear drive-by shootings regularly? No.

      Did you move to a rural area and have to work the fields sun up to sun down to help support your family? No.

      Life’s tough. So what? Beats the alternative.

      Liked by 1 person

      • lastmod says:

        You didn’t even read my reply…just reaction.

        I do live and work in an inner city where there are drive by shootings, high crime and is considered poor. It’s home. It’s what I can afford. I take precautions to the best of my ability. For me the key is that I am “known” here. Many of my neighbors (who don’t speak English have my back…and I theirs)

        I grew up in rural area….farm-work is made into something it isn’t today. Even the workers in the fields in California have it better than they did 25 years ago…and yes, when I was down and out…I did stand at Walmart with my fellow brothers from south of the border….looking for day work, and got it. Almond harvesting. 12-14 hour days standing in a hopper full of dust, tough work. Paid in cash, and I was grateful for it in 2009. I needed rent money. It was two months. Brutal.

        I lived in the Third World for eight months. Something I would not live daily in (India).

        No the communists didn’t threaten my family…but they did my father’s family. What the Nazis didn’t steal, rape, murder and take….the Soviets finished it off in 1945 in Poland. No, I didn’t live it but understand it….as does Scott and others here.

        Your comments as usual don’t reference what I replying to……showing your simon-pure hatred of me and of anything I say…and you did this even when I was a Christian……

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        You didn’t even read my reply…just reaction.

        No, I read it. It was pretty typical.

        Even the workers in the fields in California have it better than they did 25 years ago

        I started working on farms 32 years ago, and all the work I did was by hand.

        I was grateful for it in 2009. I needed rent money. It was two months. Brutal.

        I worked the harvest for four years starting in 1999. Plus, I did plenty of work year-round. The winter word was far worse.

        I lived in the Third World for eight months. Something I would not live daily in (India).

        You lived there while working for IBM, right? I was born in a third world country. I wasn’t a paid employee of a multinational corporation sent there for a few months.

        No the communists didn’t threaten my family…but they did my father’s family. What the Nazis didn’t steal, rape, murder and take….the Soviets finished it off in 1945 in Poland. No, I didn’t live it but understand it

        You think you understand it because you didn’t live it.

        Your comments as usual don’t reference what I replying to……showing your simon-pure hatred of me and of anything I say

        I’m not the one who has “a low opinion of my fellow man”, or a “seething hatred of” people who aren’t like me. That’s you, and your typical projection.

        You’re free to continue whining about how much easier “you guys” (whomever that is) have it than you, but how has that helped you? Has it made you happy yet?

        Like

      • lastmod says:

        I’m not the one who has “a low opinion of my fellow man”, or a “seething hatred of” people who aren’t like me. That’s you, and your typical projection.

        Lol…..kettle meet pot

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        Oops. I made a typo.

        “I worked the harvest for four years starting in 1999”

        I actually started working the harvest in 1989. I was 13 helping to support my birth family by picking apples, cherries, plums, grapes, etc., shoveling out stables, and anything else a 13-year-old boy could do, because it had to be done. And so did my siblings.

        Because, you know, that’s what all us elites who live a charmed life do.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        @Oscar, from his perspective, those of us who have marriages, particuarly good ones are “elites.” We don’t see ourselves as “alphas” but from his perspective what’s the difference. I’ll be the first to say that flapping my yapper on here about IoIs doesn’t help. Nor does the general male tendency towards locker room talk about all their women and conquests and what not that I”m sure he’s read for years and heard in real life – not a great way to love your brother.

        I’m not going to get it whether coming from war torn mesoamerica or being alone at 50 is worse. If I had to pick one I’d probably take my chances with war torn mesoamerica but yeah as a spoiled @$$ American that’s easy for me to say.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        from his perspective, those of us who have marriages, particuarly good ones are “elites.”

        So? According to Jason, some of the men at the incel forums claimed Jason is an “alpha”. There’s always someone who’s worse off, and there’s always someone who’s better off.

        What good has ever come from whining about those who are supposedly better off?

        I’m not going to get it whether coming from war torn mesoamerica or being alone at 50 is worse.

        No one knows which is worse. You don’t. I don’t. Jason doesn’t. Nobody does. That’s my point.

        There’s one big difference between the two, though. I didn’t choose where I was born, which dictator ruled, who started which war, who threatened to kill my dad, or where my family moved. I had zero control over any of that.

        Yeah, some of us got a raw deal. Welcome to reality.

        So, I got a rough start to life. So what? Would I trade all that turmoil for Scott’s divorce? Or (God forbid) Sharkley’s? Hell no.

        Again, go back to the Parable of the Talents. What matters is what we do with what we were given.

        Like

      • lastmod says:

        so what was my late older brother “given”?

        Downs Syndrome with profound mental retardation. Massive health problems. He pretty much lived in a hospital the first two years of his life….and therreafter he was constantly at a doctors office, in a clinic, getting sick, or just getting over a sickness…an infection……anither heart surgurey in 1987…..What could he do from birth? If he had been born a few years earlier, he would have died a few hours after birth. Which probably would have been a blessing for him and my parents if truth be told. He was one of the first babies in the USA to have open heart surgurey in 1966. The first one done was in 1965.

        How would the “parable of talents” apply to him? Use what he was given…..sure……what did his life matter do anyone? God made him in “his” image, eyt that image showed the cruelty , hopelessness and agony in man…how wonderful he was created to show us this right?

        What I have done with my life doesn’t matter to men or god. Depends who is saying it…….yeah, you have a good life. Offer a prayer and some good advice…….the people like me “brought it all upon ourselves” we deserve what we get.

        Yeah……okay.

        Look, everyone’s life has static…..everyone has had a bad break. Something that wasn’t right, or fair. You assume all come out of the womb with equal intelligence, ability……..that’s not true. Sadly, most of us know its not true………many here live in delusion with “just work hard, and accept your lot in life………THEN…you will be rewarded.

        If you were in my shoes, you would be demanding somebody DO something. I don’t do that anymore….because people don’t and shouldn’t care, and christians are the best at living that example

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        For someone who wants a woman and can’t get one that’s as bad as it gets – someone else isn’t worse off sociosexually speaking.

        So if someone whining on a discussion forum causes me minor discomfort or irritation or whatever I guess that’s pretty minor compared to what he’s feeling.

        I can remember what it was like as a teen – exactly what it was like to feel noone wanted you – it sucked balls – horribly – just experiencing it for a little while – so I can’t imagine dealing with that for many years so I guess I can take a few potshots on a discussion forum.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ Cameron

        For someone who wants a woman and can’t get one that’s as bad as it gets – someone else isn’t worse off sociosexually speaking.

        Tell that to the guys stuck in crappy, sexless marriages with the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. Who can say which is worse off?

        So if someone whining on a discussion forum causes me minor discomfort or irritation or whatever I guess that’s pretty minor compared to what he’s feeling.

        Funny how that doesn’t apply to women’s whining.

        At the very least, Jason could learn to whine without lying about those he’s whining about.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ Jason

        Lol…..kettle meet pot

        No pots, or kettles here. Just you admitting to having “a low opinion of” your “fellow man”, and a “seething hatred” of men who aren’t like you.

        https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2021/02/10/what-hitting-bottom-will-look-like/#comment-7104

        Like

  9. Maybe I’m having a reading comprehension fail, but is the question, “Would you rather have a good woman or a Christian woman?” Really?

    Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      I think the rest of the world is rapidly catching up with the West. I don’t think the choice will be Western Christian vs. Oriental (or whatever) sweetheart. I think it will be serious Christian vs. other.

      Liked by 1 person

      • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

        CAMERON
        Remember ROOSH saying how fast brazilian&poland women were changing back around 2015 or do?

        Liked by 1 person

      • Seems more like the choice would be “good” vs. other.

        I would always take “good”.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        I think the rest of the world is rapidly catching up with the West.

        Eh, that’s very variable. It certainly isn’t close to being true across the board. Generally speaking those countries that are most like the WEIRD ones (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic) are closest … so Poland is already very close, as are some Latin societies. Places like the Philippines and Taiwan … not so close. Places like SK are closer to the West, but still markedly different in gender relations … like night and day different. Of course, no place is perfect, and every place has its own challenges. But it isn’t correct to say “everyplace is basically becoming like us anyways, it makes no difference”. That’s not true, not today, and won’t be for some time to come given culture and development.

        Of course, that doesn’t mean the expat thing is easy. It isn’t for everyone. And it involves expating, not importing — importing a woman into this culture doesn’t help much, because the key element is culture. You need to be the kind of person who is able and willing to resettle in a foreign culture, and that isn’t too many men so it’s a minority solution. However, it is worth looking at for men who are capable and willing to do it, and I think that is what Jack is talking about here.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Eddie Murphy had a great routine in the 80’s. Bring an African Bush woman to the U.S. to be his wife and inside of 6 months it’s gonna be, “What have you done for me lately.”

        Liked by 5 people

      • Jack says:

        “I think the rest of the world is rapidly catching up with the West.”

        Taiwan has slowly become more westernized since I came here 15 years ago, but it’s still better than most other places. From what I have read online, India has become a nightmare of feminism.

        In this post, I do not mean to imply that men can only find good wives abroad, but only to say that traveling will open your eyes. A man would have to travel first in order to see whether marrying a foreign spouse and living abroad is something he could do or not.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Kentucky Headhunter

        “I don’t care, Eddie! I American woman now! What have you done for me lately, Eddie?”

        Just search for “Eddie Murphy Umfufu”, and prepare to bust a rib laughing. But make sure you have headphones on.

        Liked by 4 people

      • SFC Ton says:

        Brazilian chicks were sluts back in the late 80’s

        Liked by 1 person

  10. Scott says:

    The strangest thing about the whole Joshua Harris thing is the way his book was taken (by others) and made into a “movement”

    The central hypothesis of the book is “take stock of yourself and work on being the kind of person someone would want to marry.”

    Secondary to that is “initimacy is the reward for commitment.”

    Neither are super controversial

    Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      I respect Harris a lot more for being honest and admitting he’s not a Christian – because he doesn’t believe what the Bible says – than for anything else he did. Better an honest heathen than a counterfeit Christian.

      Rev 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Scott says:

        I think mostly what I mean is it was actually a fairly compatible with red pill relationship/marriage stuff book.

        The source of a good idea (or the fact that it was run out of control) is less important to me.

        Liked by 1 person

      • lastmod says:

        I read the book…..woefully later than most, and past its prime or heyday (2009). It (the book) could be “said” or stated that it was compatible with red pill but since Josh Harries didn’t look like a male model, had thousands of IOI’s, nor was he Big Man On Campus, nor was he “wonderboy”

        He has been labeled (a blue pill / churchian / never was a real christian to begin with after he renounced it) years ago, over a decade ago…now if Rollo wrote it…it would be hailed as genius or Roosh took these stances a decade ago it would talked about as a “tough, real man stance”

        But since it was Josh Harris……and evangelical culture ruthlessly pushed him into areas he had zero business being in…he was bound to fail, and be labeled (derided) as such.

        In the ‘sphere and red pill world it boils down to “who is saying it” not what is being said.

        I thought the book was decent for maybe a younger guy……some good points I suppose………for men and women……..but that whole sappy “slap Jesus on something worldly and now the faith is on equal footing with the world”

        The modern christian faith in the USA has been playing “catch up” and taking worldly topics and issues and making a half-assed compliment, and the sheep in the pews applaud it as daring, bold, real talk, and biblical.

        It looks trite to me, and a cop out. The christian faith should be setting the tone, not playing catch up to it

        Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      I think IKDG became a movement in large part because a lot of American Christians in the charismatic/Pentecostal and Fundamentalist sects saw what was happening with young people and sexual involvement. Particularly they saw girls and young women complaining very loudly about their inability to find marriageable men. So they decided to do something about it. Enter the “purity” craze with the dad/daughter dances, purity rings, and purity pledges ( those last two exchanged in things resembling wedding ceremonies – creepy to the max). IKDG was a perfect companion to purity because it lent an air of pastoral support and credibility. Gave purity scriptural and intellectual heft and gravitas, I think.

      Yes, those were the central hypotheses. What purity folks seized on was “how do you get there” and “what are we supposed to do”. I kissed dating goodbye became DO NOT DATE. It became “any form of physical contact between men and women before marriage is sin”. It became “any sexual thoughts or desires you have for a person you are interested in and talking to are sinful”. IKDG morphed into casting normal desires and wants and feelings as grave sin to be avoided at all cost.

      This led to young people avoiding people and situations that might have led to serious relationships and marriage, because even considering getting involved with the opposite sex before the wedding night was considered anathema and absolutely forbidden. Any sexual thoughts or desires would irreparably ruin anyone experiencing them.

      It was all very injurious to a lot of people, as we know. But I think it became a movement of sorts because well meaning people wanted to do something to help. Unfortunately it became a Frankenstein’s monster all on its own.

      Liked by 4 people

      • feeriker says:

        It can’t be referred to in “past tense,” either. Massive swaths of the Protestant evangelical community still at least pay serious lip service to the “purity” movement.

        Liked by 2 people

      • lastmod says:

        Agreed. It turnedgood christian gals into “forever waiting” and guys into “well, I can’t even bother asking her out until I have the degree, a good job, the future childrens college fund ready, enough for a down payment on a house, and, and, and, and..”

        It just made everyone stuck. I understood the group thing……meeting someone through that kind of situation….and many in christian culture do meet this way, not that this is a bad thing…but the problem again made people stuck.

        Harris forgot that probably two generations before him a young couple made it work, and didn’t have their life mission planned, every nuance and goal set fourth and like the ‘sphere…..forgot that people are not peg boards and think, or behave or act alike.

        Single Christians should not be out “having sex” but nor should they be having their first date at 27 either.

        The church AGAIN made a book, a pamphlet or some etherial “idea” as standard, and did nothing to mentor the young kids (church camp doesn’t count, nor does bible study). They left it up to God……..and the flock just put their faith in some book instead of doing the work of mentoring, teaching, helping, and rolling up the sleeves to get these kids married and in a supportive community of faith. That takes time. Takes herculean effort against the world……something few want to do, or can do.

        Harris took a concept and made it conform to the world. Nice house, good job, provision…something to fit IN the world instead of “not of this world”

        Its easy to trash him now, and even ten years ago…….but few back then didn’t even DARE say one word agaisnt his ideas for fear of “not being christian” in their community.

        We all knew then, and now………the top 10% of young men and women in the church didn’t have to follow any of this. Plenty of options.

        Liked by 3 people

  11. There is a third choice, even more uncomfortable than either of the first two. Continue waiting for a Christian woman who has the mind and habits necessary to build a Christian marriage. In my case, I waited for nearly two decades without finding anyone to my liking. Eventually, I buckled under the temptation and ran the gauntlet properly. I also had a failed first marriage.

    This is generally the best choice with some caveats.

    Find women who already have a solid walk with Christ. Typically, they are serving in Church to some capacity beyond just Sunday and exhibiting growth through the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. Yes, there are women out there who do this just like there are some men.

    I found a much less hit rate with men and women who just go on Sunday (“Sunday only Christians”) as their behavior tends to be just like the rest of the world, I was one myself growing up going in the Church.

    Teach them what the God says about marriage via the various Biblical marital roles and responsibilities. If they don’t want to follow the Bible and you, drop them and move on. A woman who has a solid walk with Christ is generally more amenable to teaching on the Scripture than other women, so they go hand in hand.

    That’s the exact thing I did. YMMV. My home Church at the time didn’t have anyone, so I expanded my network to go to other young adult groups and other ministries. This is probably what most men will need to do, since I’ve seen comparatively few marriages within the same Church groups (maybe 10-20% at most.., which I guess would correspond to the top 10-20% of men).

    Liked by 1 person

    • professorGBFMtm2021 says:

      DEEPSTRENGTH
      I think you better than most know, I have always been hyperactive mind-wise right?My replies to you dos’nt prove this (especialy the deleted moderating one with john lennon&mr. cosell!)?Can you imagine what school or church is like for someone like myself?Its like going to jail like most people going to their jobs!

      Liked by 2 people

      • @ PGBFM

        That’s why I recommend taking up a job that forces you into interaction with people so you can become more comfortable with socializing.

        I was there myself. Hated talking to people. Didn’t really connect with anyone. Social interactions were draining. I think most introverted people are like this, I’m like 95% introverted or something like that when I take the tests. The thing that really got me out of my shell was getting a people job during college and it started to make me much more comfortable talking with people. Then grad school I TAed and did more stuff to improve on that.

        You take some of the se basics and transition it into evangelism and discipleship which Christians are supposed to do. Or even just start with these.

        These things take time and constantly exposing yourself to practice even if you don’t want to or don’t feel like it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • lastmod says:

        most will look like a fool or then have men like you correcting them and not ALLOWING them to lead.

        Like

      • @ lastmod

        I’d like to personally apologize to you if I offended you in any way to where you feel the need to continue to take digs at me everywhere.

        Although I disagree with you on many things in regard to the current topics of discussion, my disagreement does not mean I hate you or have anything against you.

        Liked by 2 people

  12. Oscar says:

    Is it really “God’s will” for me to marry a non-Christian woman? ~ Jack

    That’s like asking “is it really ‘God’s will’ for me to dishonor my parents… commit adultery… covet…. etc.” God already commanded you to not do any of those things. Obviously, if God commanded you to not do something, then it’s His will that you not do it.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jack says:

      @ Oscar,

      “Is it really “God’s will” for me to marry a non-Christian woman?”

      The question (as couched in the post) is intended to point out the futility of reason.

      If we want to take a purely rational approach to this decision, then it depends on how we define “Christian”. Is it determined by her words, deeds, culture, upbringing, humility, willingness to submit in a Headship relationship, or what?

      And no matter what rational condition is adopted, you could always be wrong. You could still wind up in a lousy marriage. The answer is not so simple.

      “…whatever is not from faith is sin.” ~ Romans 14:23

      Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Jack

        The question (as couched in the post) is intended to point out the futility of reason.

        I’d say “the limits of reason”, but I think we agree.

        And no matter what rational condition is adopted, you could always be wrong. You could still wind up in a lousy marriage. The answer is not so simple.

        Ours is to obey our Lord. The consequences of our obedience is His business.

        Liked by 1 person

    • SFC Ton says:

      God also tells us to marry so we don’t burn

      Liked by 3 people

    • Lexet Blog says:

      I can only think of 2 instances right now where God intervened in set of circumstances and demanded actions that went “against” scriptural commands.

      What the 2 events had in common were: divine inspiration straight from the source, and both instances were used for punishment/symbolism of punishment.

      The instances I am talking about is David- who should have been executed under the law. It was specifically revealed to a prophet that David would not be punished, but that his punishment would come later- the destruction of his family and destabilization of Israel.

      The second instance is hosea, a prophet who was ordered to take a wife with an immoral nature. The purpose was to compare Israel’s idolatry with the whoredom of hoseas ho

      Liked by 3 people

  13. Scavos says:

    “Likewise, women who claim to be Christians, and who may even quote scripture and attend church, but who also believe in Feminist ideology and/or follow the Feminist Life Script, fit under this bill. They “talk the talk”, but they don’t “walk the walk”. They may have an appearance of godliness, but they deny the power of conforming to God’s intended ideal of them being submissive wives and feminine mothers.”

    Differentiating between these women and those who do honor God in their lives is like playing “Where’s Waldo?” in a crowd of Tomi Lahrens.

    Liked by 8 people

  14. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    HEY SCAVOS!
    People actualy think I’m playing around with all these feral women?
    You can get a lot of attention from bears in the woods too if you have food,but does anybody realy want that attention!?
    But wants these mostly feral women?
    Thats the main thing most men don’t get even if you can get attention,you more than likely are going to not like whos giving you it!
    This what I would tell any guy saying how great life would be if only he had a woman in his life,they have not heard all the married mens horror stories of women&wives?

    Liked by 4 people

  15. Joe2 says:

    Although I must have “dated” close to 200 women during my college years — most all of them professing Christians…they had an unspoken assumption that sexual relations should commence within the first few “dates”, and some of them showed little restraint in this expectation.

    The key here is the phrase “unspoken assumption.” How would you know what they assumed regarding sexual relations since they didn’t tell you?

    Liked by 1 person

    • feeriker says:

      How would you know what they assumed regarding sexual relations since they didn’t tell you?

      The change in their attitudes and behaviors toward you after the first few dates passed and you didn’t “Initiate” sexual contact usually serve as a dead giveaway.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        The change in their attitudes and behaviors toward you

        That, or when they cheat on you with someone else, openly and sexually, in front of a dozen or so other people, when you are away for a weekend, after you have been seeing them for a couple of months without making sexual advances.

        True story.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Scott says:

        That, or when they cheat on you with someone else, openly and sexually, in front of a dozen or so other people, when you are away for a weekend, after you have been seeing them for a couple of months without making sexual advances.

        Once I learned “if she’s out with you, she wants you to make clear unambiguous moves” I never forgot it.

        There’s nothing worse than having a crush on a girl, take her out, you move too slow (not aggressive enough because the blue pill), and then you see her and someone else playing “let’s find things in each other’s mouths” by the lockers the next day.

        Never, ever made that mistake again. Luckily I was like 15 so it didn’t stunt me.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        Never, ever made that mistake again. Luckily I was like 15 so it didn’t stunt me.

        Yep — good lesson to learn. In HS I moved more slowly and it didn’t “cost me” with either of my HS GFs, but that was Catholic HS in the early 1980s, and these were “nice” girls, so that probably mattered a bit. I was not amused when that happened in college, but you live and learn. She did marry the guy, so it’s hard for me to complain, honestly, even though I dislike the way that their relationship started.

        Love is war, as they say. If you see something you want, you take it, unless someone in in a position to stop you. And that’s how it works.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “How would you know what they assumed regarding sexual relations since they didn’t tell you?”

      –They were really quiet. They didn’t want to engage in conversation.
      –They were disappointed with what I had planned — no matter how exciting it was, she would be bored to tears. I took one girl to a Santana concert in 1993; the tickets cost me $70. About 20 minutes into the concert, everybody stood up and started dancing. She didn’t want to dance. She gave me a hateful glare and walked out of the auditorium. Never saw her again.
      –The change in attitude and behavior was very sudden. It’s like the moment they realized I was “serious”, they turned dark.
      –Giving her flowers would get me rejected on the spot! That happened so many times that I’ll never give flowers to any woman again.
      –It was like playing baseball — date 1, date 2, date 3, I’m out! Most of them ghosted after the first or second date.
      –Extreme ghosting. It’s like they disappeared off the face of the earth. If I happened to run into them again, they would treat me like a leper.
      –They would pick things up with another man almost immediately, and I was the last to know about it, if at all.
      A couple of them stayed with me for more than a couple months. I proposed to one, and she was gone like a bat out of he11. She was screwing one of my (ex)friends within a week.
      Too many stories like this to tell.

      “Once I learned “if she’s out with you, she wants you to make clear unambiguous moves” I never forgot it.”

      I was really naive because I clung to the idea that Christian women would/should be focused on exploring the relationship potential with marriage in the back of their minds. So I interpreted everything through this lens for the longest time. I didn’t learn the lesson Scott describes until after I went out with a few women who unambiguously made the first move. Even after I became aware of this expectation, I put it out of my mind as much as I could, because I knew that if I started dwelling on that, then I would not be able to withstand the temptation.
      I still carry some bitterness and regret from all of this. Now that I’ve lived in Asia for a while, I don’t find white women to be attractive at all.

      Liked by 3 people

  16. professorGBFMtm2021 says:

    SCOTT!.. I’am the professor!I like them big&I like them small!& if I had to take a oath I’d take them all!
    You know how I showed my 6 year old G.F. back in the mid-80s I loved her?
    Barely acknowledged her!You know that story right?
    Why did women go nuts over MR.SPOCK drawing pics of him in chains at sci-fi cons in the late’60s?
    You know tv guide in ’67 was sure women loved his intelligence,but we don’t beleave that do we?
    Leonard nimoy himself knew it was also spock’s barely caring about women that got them drawing locked down,chained up spock drawings too!He said so in his ”I’am spock” book in ’95!But most men are sure you heap praise&betaness on them!

    Like

  17. Novaseeker says:

    And for the OASIS is bleeding into non-OASIS file comes this story …

    Bella Thorne, who is a fairly well-known B/C-list actress, singer and celebrity, has now veered more or less directly into OASIS material. She famously made a stupid amount of money on OnlyFans without actually providing any explicit content beyond the kinds of things she normally posts on her Instagram account “for free” — sort of dipping her toe into the waters of the OASIS, but not taking a swim in them … yet.

    Well, she recently posted a professionally-produced “music” video, and placed it on YouTube (it was removed for content violations, which she is apparently contesting). This “music” video by Thorne is yet another indication that these two previously sharply distinguished worlds are slowly beginning to merge.

    That is, women in the entertainment industry have always been a combination of looks and talent, with the big money and exposure roles going to those with both. It appears that what is happening is the more talent light but looks heavy side of that group is pushing the boundaries of ways they can monetize their appearance, while still keeping a foot in the “legit” camp, and the OASIS is where this is taking place.

    Fascinating developments, really, but nothing unexpected from where I am sitting.

    https://people.com/music/bella-thorne-shake-it-video-wasnt-meant-to-be-controversial-about-having-fun/

    Liked by 1 person

  18. feeriker says:

    The christian faith should be setting the tone, not playing catch up to it

    Churchians, being of shallow and ersatz faith as they are, pursue and attempt to imitate the worldly because they think that being popular with the World is what Jesus commands of them (ignorance of Scripture bearing its toxic fruits here). Much of this has to do with the “seeker-friendly” fixation, which in turn is a byproduct of the toxic and destructive “church as a non-profit business” model that has led the church completely off the rails.

    Early Christians were not the least bit concerned with the culture of their own time. The fact that they shunned it was what led to their martyrdom in such massive numbers. This martyrdom, in turn, eventually began to inspire awe and reverence for the Faith among the pagans, who saw how readily Christians forefitted their lives for their belief (no one does that for something to which they are not totally committed). Would that today’s Christians were willing to sacrifice the same thing and turn their backs as quickly on the contemporary culture.

    Someday it might begin to dawn on even the densest of churchians that chasing the culture is a visibly very failed strategy.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Exactly, and this is why I welcome the increasing hostility to Christianity in the west.

      Now that being a Christian will continue to be less and less popular, you will start to see the people who are actually committed to God rather than whatever flavor of churchian they are.

      Liked by 4 people

      • lastmod says:

        until they haul you into the camp or do terrible things to your wife in front of you professing christ. No man in here is going to take a caning and be permantely disfugurred for procliaming chirst like they do in rural Pakistan. None. DS you the type of man who would expect “someone else to take it” not you.

        Like

    • Oscar says:

      Someday it might begin to dawn on even the densest of churchians that chasing the culture is a visibly very failed strategy.

      It won’t, because their Lord is not Jesus Christ. The problem is not that they’re “dense”. The problem is that they’re not Christians.

      Some of them may become Christians, but most will continue to follow the counterfeit Christ they created in their own image.

      Liked by 3 people

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  21. info says:

    Prayer is very important. Since we are practically in the Wilderness being led by the Spirit as symbolized by the Pillar of Fire and Cloud.

    Unless we pray we may never have opportunities and provisions come our way. I notice that the people only got when they needed when Moses cried out to God.

    Pray that God corrects this situation also. The current Churchian situation is so inverted and perverted. Only God’s guidance can help.

    Liked by 3 people

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