Lessons from the Train Wreckage

Not to worry … She’s an outlier, nothing for me to be concerned about …

Readership: All
Reader’s Note: This post is a commentary on the true story conveyed in my previous post, The Slow Train Wreck — A Cautionary Tale (2021 January 18). Readers may want to read this post before continuing.
In these posts, H=Husband and W=Wife.
Length: 2,300 words
Reading Time: 8 minutes

What Was Once an Outlier is Now Normal

In reflecting on the sad tale of H and W recounted in my most recent post, it seems to me that there is a significant temptation to dismiss the story as being too outlierish to be of interest to upstanding, moral Christians like the reader base of this site. A curiosity, perhaps, but nothing of greater interest in our own lives or in the lives of our adult (or soon to be adult) children. We just aren’t people like that.

The problem is that the more closely one looks at the situation of H and W, the less truly outlierish it appears.

Always look for the obvious red flags, but …

While there were various rubicons crossed that in hindsight should not have been permitted, or at least should have been raised to the level of confrontation at the time, it is, of course, much easier for us now to spot these in hindsight.  It is much, much easier than in real life and in real time, until it gets to the point where it is so egregious that it needs to be stopped – which is what H did when it did, in fact, get to that point. 

H discusses at length in his interview with Rollo how W presented no major red flags during the pre-marital and early marriage phases of the relationship.  W comes from a solid family of origin – religious Baptists, but not fundamentalists, was college educated but not careerist, was interested in having kids, generally happily married to H (at several points in the earlier years of the Instagram feed, she specifically remarks about how much she loves her marriage), and so on.

While W did have some N count prior to marriage, and while most of our readers would agree that N=0 is the ideal, many of our readers were not N=0 when they themselves married, and no N count at all is simply not something most Christians have today when they marry. According to what W has said, most of her N count happened in high school and not in college and beyond and so was less of a red flag for H (whose N count was also not 0) when he met her when she was 25. So while N count is typically a red flag for people who see any N higher than 0 as a red flag, W was not in a situation where her N count was an outlier for Christian women, even for religious Christian women of her age, at that time (2009).

Flipping the Switch

When we look at the accounts of the early years of the marriage, and see this reflected in the early years of W’s Instagram feed, it seems clear enough that this simply was not a case of a careerist “carousel rider” who married at 30 wanting to hop back onto the carousel after tiring of her “Betabux” once having birthed 1-2 kids.  This was a woman who did a true 180-degree turn right in the middle of her marriage.  Like a total U-Turn, where everything she wanted and pursued and organized her life around was trashed and replaced with another set of values and other things that then served as her new “north star”. This new set of values was, of course, totally different from what she was oriented around when H met her, and therefore totally incompatible with remaining married to H.

H says in his interview with Rollo that the critical point was when she came to see herself as LGBT.  I do not see very much evidence of this in W’s posts outside a smattering of things around the time of that specific event, and her current life seems mostly not on the LGBT side of things as far as she has disclosed, but H’s explanation of what happened seems quite on target to me nonetheless, even as an outside observer. 

The reason is that when she started to identify in that way, she must have reached out to the related world on the internet, and when she did so, she would have encountered the entire ideology of that world and would have imbibed it.  The female side of the LGBT world, which is the side she would have been interfacing with, is thoroughly feminist to its core, in a very extreme way typically.  It’s all patriarchy this, heterosexism that, etc.  She seems to have coupled this together with the general sex positive feminism that lies at the basis for sex worker movements and the like (and which is hated by the more “traditional” radfems) to arrive at a new set of principles for her life.  And to me that’s likely the key to understanding when and how the “switch flipped”.

Switching Teams

At some point, W had her mental computer undergo an operating system change.  Specifically she was changing out a faith – which comes complete with a worldview, a moral code, and a set of values, norms, and behaviors – for an ideology – which also comes complete with a new and different worldview, moral code, and set of values, norms, and behaviors.  Both before and after she had a “team”, a “tribe”, a group she could identify with and which could form a core basis of her identity.   She could share a worldview with this group, a moral code, a set of values, norms, and behaviors, and have it all supported and reinforced.  Of course, this new set didn’t involve the Christian faith, but it appears that W had moved to the “spiritual but not religious” group of people who want the goodies of a spiritual life without the pesky moral rules, especially moral rules about sex.

More fundamentally, W appears to me to have moved to a view where she sees life as being about pursuing self-determined goals, and that her self-determined goals, as she openly states in several of her Instagram posts and in her various interviews, are getting rich and using her sex appeal to do that by virtually sharing her body with the masses as she does on Instagram and monetizes as a model and on the private porn site she has hosted on OnlyFans. 

This, which would normally appear to be a rather narcissistic approach to life at the intersection of attention seeking and grifting, is, when coupled with certain ideologies and worldviews that arise from feminism, instead repackaged as an act of rebellion against the patriarchy, an act of personal feminist liberation through softcore porn and pay-per-view grift, whereby the heterosexist wannabe patriarchs are literally made to pay for their relentless “sexism” and “exploitation of women”, to the satisfaction of the liberated empowered woman who heroically turns the exploiters into the exploited by the means of her alluring digital nudes.

Beware Discovery of the “Real Me”

Ultimately, the endgame for W has been spectacularly ugly from a moral perspective, but the key takeaway for us is the following:  ideas are important.   Do not think that they are essentially harmless.  They are not.  The contemporary ideas that are in broad circulation in our culture point in one direction only – away from God and towards the self and the gratification of our appetites and desires.  This is all of feminism.  It is much of the modern world besides.  Be wary of it, in the extreme, in your own views and certainly in those of your wife. 

Yes, when vetting, and after marriage, you should pay attention to little changes in her behavior and appearance and the like, because over time these can and do add up in many cases. But in reality, the main takeaway here is that when W made her self discovery and told H about it, this was not a time to take it lightly and accept it. It was not the time to be forbearing and forgiving. It was a time to challenge it, to question it, to try to disrupt it, and at all costs, to steer her away from the rest of the corpus of ideas that array themselves under the larger LGBT rubric, virtually all of which are fundamentally corrosive to any heterosexual marriage. Because permitting it to continue and grow is a sure path to marital disaster.

That is not a criticism of H, by the way – not at all.  As I say, hindsight is 20/20, and my heart goes out to H here – it was very hard to know what to do in real time.  But for us, having the benefit of hindsight here, we can be more deliberate about how we understand what happened here, and how we can learn from it.  Ideas matter.  They seep into everything.  They may seem harmless at first, but then they grow and lead to bigger ideas, and soon enough, they are replacing other ideas wholesale… and the entire person’s conception of who they are and what they are about changes utterly as a result of being oriented around an utterly different set of ideas.

In the context of a marriage, this kind of transformation is typically fatal, because the person who is transformed in the way they view themselves generally asks themselves, at some point in that process of transformation, whether the “new version” of themselves would have ever decided to marry their current spouse to begin with, or whether their current spouse is simply a poor fit for the “person they now know themselves to be”. The core logic, which is entirely self-centered, asks whether “this marriage makes sense for the Real Me”.

In other words, if you allow someone to redefine themselves in a significant way during the marriage, without being challenged, although you may think you are being supportive of their “journey of self-discovery” (something the culture and even many churches will blare loudly in your face 24/7 today), all you are really doing is creating a ticking time bomb that could very well blow up in your face once the transformation is fully in place.

And it makes perfect sense — she has changed, and you have not. She has a different perspective, now, on almost everything — she sees the entire world differently. And that will almost always include how she sees you, how she views men, relationships, sex, and the kinds of men she desires, and seeks for relationships, and so on. (Jack would say that this kind of change “de-sanctifies” or defiles the marriage.)

When someone fundamentally changes, such that their worldview itself changes, there is simply a substantial risk that you, having been selected under their prior/”false”/old worldview, simply do not fit into their new vision of themselves, into how they see their “Real Me” and the kind of life that their “Real Me” really wants. And when that happens, in our culture it is only a matter of time until the marriage ends — Christian, kids, or not.

What’s Next for W?

I do not know what will happen with W.  I have no crystal ball. 

Having now looked at the last several years of W’s online history, and the recent trajectory as well, including the velocity of change, and the general direction of it, I honestly do not think it is predictable where W will stop at this point.  She seems to me to be in utter thrall of a combination of powerful demons – open, crass, celebrated greed; a virtual bottomless pit of attention-seeking; an addiction to the related ego boosting; and raw sexual lust, which I am certain is playing a substantial role in the proceedings as well. 

At the end of 2020, W disclosed openly, in a post on her Instagram feed, her 2020 OF earnings. The reveal was in the form of screenshots of the earnings numbers from the OF site itself, so it is not “made up”. In the 4 final months of 2020 (i.e., after the viral exposure following the New York Post article), her OF earnings skyrocketed! She earned, rounded, U.S. $138,000 in those 4 months alone! Prior to that, W had not earned more than U.S. $600 in any one month, so she has definitely “blown up” since her viral exposure.

As others have noted, W is a “performer”, and she likes to be the center of an audience more than anything else. I do not think that OF will deliver to her the audience size she ultimately wants. (She will never be a Belle Delphine level phenomenon.) So I expect she will look to other lines of larger-scale attention-getting where she can parley her unique combination of titillating history, comely appearance, and speaking skills into some kind of new gig. My guess is that she is now planning to use this new level of exposure to parley that into some kind of post-OF gig — reality TV, talk show host, junket talk sage, a pop personality, or something like this. The other possibilities that come to mind — such as traditional porn or the actual courtesan route (W mentioned in her interview with the New York Post that she was ready to do this before Covid happened) — now seem far less likely for W given that her OF has now reached critical mass financially. These kinds of efforts would not yield anything close to the kind of ROI she is getting from OF, so they really just don’t pencil at this point for W. Even if she fails to parley her OF virality into another gig, she can still cultivate her OF base quite nicely for quite some time for substantial cash without expanding into one of those other areas.  

Ultimately I think all we can do is pray for God’s transforming grace for W, and for his continuing strength and support for H and their kids.  W, for all of the tawdriness and narcissism, still has 3 kids 10 and under and an ex-H who has been through things almost no men have to live through, even those of us who have lived through divorces.  Prayer and compassion is all we can offer, I think, as well as the determination to learn what we can from this unfortunate situation, so as to avoid making similar mistakes in our own lives.

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72 Responses to Lessons from the Train Wreckage

  1. cameron232 says:

    Not blaming the poor guy but there were all sort of red flags.

    Being a member of any church that isn’t a “fundamentalist” church is a red flag. Mainstream churches are literally no different from the general culture. That goes for all of them: Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox.

    If she slept with several boys in high school that is a slut – period – this was a red flag.

    College educated – red flag – college educated women – that’s feminist.

    Liked by 4 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      On this front I think churches are worse then the general culture becuase churches give chicks the stamp of approval from their false version of God for her fucked up behavior

      Liked by 6 people

    • “College educated – red flag – college educated women – that’s feminist.”

      This is a misconception. College educated is actually good. It has the lowest divorce rate between all of the groups including not finishing high school. GED, high school and partial college. The issue is the percentage of divorces is upwards of 85-90% are initiated by women, but that’s only within the smallest percentage sample.

      Basically if you married a college educated woman you have the lowest risk, but it’s likely that if you end divorced that she will leave you and not you her.

      Vet her college experiences for Christian groups, actual courses like STEM, etc. vs taking “gender equality” crap.

      Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        Among the general population I’m sure that’s statistically true. IMO, the lowest risk group is “fundamentalist” Christians (of all denominations) – from what I can tell their girls don’t go to college or it’s post-secondary education of a limited type.

        By fundamentalist I don’t necessarily mean just KJO Independent Baptists or snake handlers.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        More.

        “No college education” I’m sure is more common among lower class women, ghetto women and white trailer park women, whatever. Sure, they have higher divorce rates. Lower IQ, lower impulse control, more emotional problems from abuse, molestation, whatever. Higher n-counts. So yeah, education probably correlates negatively with divorce rate.

        So yes, if your strategy is to pick a wife from among the general population (or even among mega-church evangelicals) then yes, educated is probably statistically less risky.

        IMO, Christian men should be selecting wives from the rare groups of Christian “fundamentalists” (whatever your church or denomination).

        Among these groups, from what I can tell, it is less common for women to go to college or at least more common for it to be under restricted circumstances (an all-female school with rules instead of the University of Florida/Fornication).

        Like

  2. cameron232 says:

    There’s a lot of crazy people.

    Men too. We know of two cases first hand.

    One at a Southern Baptist church we attended years ago. A husband with six children decided he was a fag and left his wife for a man. The wife was on suicide watch (a couple we are friends with had to take the children into foster care for a while).

    Just this year the husband of one of my wife’s friends (3 children together) decided that he is a woman and is transitioning into a woman through hormone replacement. He informed his wife that she is a lesbian since she’s married to him and he’s a woman.

    These are real cases we have first-hand knowledge of so not real surprised by H and W’s famous case. Lots of crazy people out there. Weird ideas promoted by the mainstream, they opened up the insane asylums, relaxation of selection pressures (mouse utopia) and who knows maybe there’s something in the vaccines.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Elspeth says:

      Yeah, I know a woman too whose husband is “transitioning:, and they are a missionary family. It’s still confounding to me how this kind of thing can happen. So far she seems to be sticking with him (for the kids sake maybe?), but the spirit of this age is seducing a lot of people in ways that are far beyond the idea that we can “vet better” to avoid these train wrecks.

      Only God, through the Holy Spirit, is a keeper of our hearts and minds. ONLY Him.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Lexet Blog says:

      American women are so awful that their men are becoming gay to avoid them

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Scott says:

    Most people do not have a well-formed worldview. Or if they do, they have not explored, counted out all of its permutations (second and third order effects and implications) and articulated it to each other before marriage. Pretty much they just have a lot of sex and superficial conversations masquerading as deep ones and then they get married.

    By worldview, here, I mean something like “what is my place in the universe? How do I function in relationship to all the concentric circles around me — my marriage, my relationships with my children, my neighbors, my extended family, my church, my profession? What is the purpose of all of this, and what is my part? What is the super giant meta big picture here?”

    A Christian worldview, if fully explored doesn’t really change the answers to those questions much, no matter what denomination or faith tradition you hold to. So, I reckon that if you see small “changes” in your spouse over the course of your marriage that deviate from something so simple they probably had un articulated expectations about marriage that were residing in their heart the whole time. But in the fog of falling in love, its pretty much impossible to “vet” for.

    That something simple is like “There is a God. He created the universe and everything in it. He has expectations of His creation and that is His prerogative. After all, He is God and everything. Those expectations are pretty well spelled out in the wisdom of the ages.” Its pretty easy to figure out where you fit in using that rubric. Deviations from it are essentially an indication that you have been overcome by the noise of the world because you wanted to be.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Oscar says:

      Most people do not have a well-formed worldview. Or if they do, they have not explored, counted out all of its permutations (second and third order effects and implications) and articulated it to each other before marriage.

      I read the Bible all the way through, in chronological order, with my kids, Genesis to Revelation, then back to Genesis again. We’re currently finishing Genesis.

      When we read Genesis 1 and 2, we spent a lot of time talking about what it means for God to be the Creator. What rights and prerogatives does that give Him? What does it mean for us that a universal moral law giver exists? What does it mean for us to be created in His image? Why does it matter in our every day lives, and how does it affect how we think about, and behave towards ourselves, and others?

      I didn’t learn any of that in church. I worked through it on my own, and by reading a lot of books on Christian apologetics, and the effects of Christian theology on European culture.

      And you know what? That’s a shame.

      Liked by 7 people

      • Ame says:

        Awesome Dad, Oscar!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        Thanks for the compliment, Ame.

        Liked by 1 person

      • feeriker says:

        …reading a lot of books on Christian apologetics

        Oscar, what are your criteria for selecting these? Just curious.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        @ feeriker

        I didn’t really have a criteria when I first started reading apologetics. I just read books that were recommended to me by people I trusted. Two that stand out in my mind are How Should We Then Live by Francis Schaeffer…

        … and Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.

        Add to that anything by G.K. Chesterton, and I’d say you have a pretty good start. Mere Christianity is particularly helpful when teaching teenagers. These three old, dead white guys were talking about the decline of Western Civilization long before it was cool.

        As far as Church history, I found How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas E. Woods helpful (and I’m not Catholic)…

        … as well as The Victory of Reason by Rodney Stark.

        Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. I hope that helps.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Scavos says:

        “I didn’t learn any of that in church. I worked through it on my own, and by reading a lot of books on Christian apologetics, and the effects of Christian theology on European culture.

        And you know what? That’s a shame.”

        &

        “Most people do not have a well-formed worldview. Or if they do, they have not explored, counted out all of its permutations (second and third order effects and implications) and articulated it to each other before marriage.”

        I can only imagine the impact the Church could really have, if they were teaching their congregations these things.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. Oscar says:

    Again: avoid megachurches, and churches that allow women to preach.

    Would that have helped H and W? That’s unknowable. But, it’ll help every one of us right now.

    The model of success for every megachurch is Joel Osteen. What’s his tagline? “Live your best life now”. You know what that sounds like? “Find your true self”. You know what it doesn’t sound like?

    Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

    You don’t attract tens of thousands of people by requiring them to deny themselves and suffer hardship and persecution. You attract tens of thousands of people by promising an easy life in which they can do whatever they want.

    2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

    Megachurch pastors massage their audience’s egos like Mr. Rogers talking to toddlers. Jesus preached messages specifically intended to weed out counterfeit believers by offending them (John 6), then, when the vast majority of His disciples abandoned Him, He asked His Apostles, “will you leave too?” St. Peter replied, “where will we go, Lord? You alone have the words of life”.

    Exactly.

    Are there exceptions? I think so. Pastor John MacArthur is proving his faithfulness by refusing to bend the knee and burn incense to Caesar.

    https://christiantoday.com/article/john.macarthur.says.hell.start.prison.ministry.if.hes.put.in.jail.over.church.services/135591.htm

    …. if they want to tuck me into jail, I’m open for a jail ministry. I’ve done a lot of other ministries and haven’t had the opportunity to do that one. So bring it on. ~ Pastor John MacArthur

    But, as a general rule, it’s a good idea to avoid megachurches, and churches that allow women to preach.

    That being said, persecution is here. COVID is the excuse. Time to weed out the fakers.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Elspeth says:

      John MacArthur is fighting the good fight. Voddie Baucham, who we had the pleasure of hearing in person over the weekend in a relatively large church, is also fighting the good fight. Along with the pastor of that church whose name none of us knows and will probably never hear because the most important work in being done outside the eyes of the consuming, entertainment seeking public.

      As for apologetic books, I bought Baucham’s Expository Apologetics recently, and I look forward to reading and possibly reviewing it in the Reading Room in the near to mid future.

      Like

  5. Scott says:

    Also…

    As has been discussed over the last decade and a half in these places– there is zero incentive from the culture itself to enforce something like a worldview that is even marginally compatible with our Christian faith. Not from older ladies in the church. Not from the hierarchy. Not from the government.

    Note even further the near epidemic levels of cluster B personality pathology (insert any one of my or Richard Granons videos on the topic here) the essential feature of which is “unstable sense of self.” Without that grounded center, how does one expect to withstand the challenges to such a worldview when they come?

    AND

    In my forensic work, for many many years, personality pathology has been considered a no-go in offering an affirmative defense for the accused, because it is conceptualized as a matter of character. Only the most severe mental illnesses (thought disorders, mania, pervasive developmental disorders) have been allowed to be offered this way. As an aside, Montana is one of about 3 states that perceives this kind of mental illness as a mitigator after adjudication, rather than “not guilty by reason of insanity.” Nevertheless, the outcome is the same.

    Mark my words. Personality disorders are coming to a court near you as a get out of jail free card. After all, I had a shitty childhood and my parents were alcoholics.

    “White privilege” or “racism” will be declared reasons for home invasions to be justified on the rationale that those people needed to have their home fumigated for social injustice.

    Its coming. And this is the “peak subjectivity” that I keep wondering what will be the end state of.

    Since I am a part of that system, albeit a small one– I am reminded of General Bufords (Sam Elliot) words as he arrived on the scene before the battle of Gettysburg.

    Devin, I’ve led a soldier’s life, and I’ve never seen anything as brutally clear as this. It’s as if I can actually see the blue troops in one long, bloody moment, goin’ up the long slope to the stony top. As if it were already done… already a memory. An odd… set… stony quality to it. As if tomorrow has already happened and there’s nothin’ you can do about it. The way you sometimes feel before an ill-considered attack, knowin’ it’ll fail, but you cannot stop it. You must even take part, and help it fail.

    And people wonder why I have lost any regard for a society built on “individual freedom.”

    Liked by 4 people

  6. “But in reality, the main takeaway here is that when W made her self discovery and told H about it, this was not a time to take it lightly and accept it. It was not the time to be forbearing and forgiving. It was a time to challenge it, to question it, to try to disrupt it,”

    Her response will be to call the police and say that she doesn’t feel safe with him in the house anymore. Problem (for her) solved.

    I thought I’d heard something about them moving the family to California (at her insistence and prior to the split) even though neither of them had jobs waiting there? That makes me think she’d been planning something for quite a while.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Oscar says:

    On a lighter note (because I’m not the one who got stabbed), some crazy Mexican chick stabbed her husband because she saw a photo of him with a young, sexy girl.

    It was her.

    https://notthebee.com/article/husband-stabbed-repeatedly-after-jealous-wife-finds-photo-of-him-with-young-skinny-girl-which-happened-to-actually-be-her-when-she-was-younger

    Liked by 3 people

  8. redpillboomer says:

    “In the context of a marriage, this kind of transformation is typically fatal, because the person who is transformed in the way they view themselves generally asks themselves, at some point in that process of transformation, whether the “new version” of themselves would have ever decided to marry their current spouse to begin with, or whether their current spouse is simply a poor fit for the “person they now know themselves to be”. ”

    Yes, until 10-15-20 years later and they are making a video on their regret at what they left back-in-the-day. I knew a woman similar to W many years ago, marginally Christian, married to an Air Force enlisted man with two cute little kids, a boy and a girl. This was back in the 1990s before the age of internet and social media. Her thing was she couldn’t get enough ‘D’ and was running all over the place after it to include group sex and gangbangs. Hubby was a decent guy, and very jealous about her (who can blame him). Needless to say, they eventually got a divorce, she went wild with her ‘freedom;’ and years later, after like another two marriages and countless dudes, was remorseful and regretful at ‘What she threw away back-in-the-day,’ Sad. I’m sure her life is filled with pain and suffering even though in this day and age of social media, they can put on a pretty good front for the public that they are doing okay and have made a life for themselves. Their new ‘career’ seems to center around teaching/mentoring the younger women ‘not to do what I did.’ Of course, the younger versions of herself aren’t listening to it because they are enjoying the pleasures of riding the CC over and over, just like she did in her day. The next decade should see female train wrecks like this piling up all over the place in society. It is sad and does us no good as a society, but what can be done about it? Little areas of influence that we have, we can share with the younger women (and men) that there is a different way (ultimately The Way, the truth and the life), but it seems like our influence is limited drowned out by a sea of ‘personal freedom’ and pleasure seeking. Not trying to be fatalistic here, it’s just the widespread de-evolution of society is ubiquitous, and disheartening. It is going to take a major move of God to begin to re-direct all this. I personally think it is beyond men/women’s capabilities (like this blog and all the other content creators) to turn this around by getting the information that needs to get out. By all means we need to keep doing this, the old starfish clip about the guy on the beach throwing starfish back that had washed up on the shore, that metaphor applies here, but it’s still not enough.

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      Shoot – some of them don’t even pretend they’re doing ok. In my mid forties now, I see some of them (divorced) from HS and college complaining on social media about how they just want what their grandparents had – a sixty year marriage or whatever. Grandma probably didn’t ride the carousel, didn’t betray her man by monkeybranching, etc.

      The wife knows a lady from HS who just got with a guy they knew in HS – the guy looks like Quasimodo, has zero charm (a real prick) and is (we know pretty much for sure) a pedo-pervert. She has young grandkids so we are pretty sure what he’s after. Not the 45 year old grandma. She’ll probably F-up their life too for one last shot at a man.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      The next decade should see female train wrecks like this piling up all over the place in society.

      What do you mean by “the next decade”? Those train wrecks are “all over the place” right now. All you have to do to witness them is visit your nearest trailer park, or inner city.

      Lower-IQ, poorer communities have been devastated by this behavior for decades. For a multitude of reasons, this behavior is now devastating middle class, higher-IQ families.

      And it’s not just female train wrecks. Remember, the foolish woman tears down her house with her own hands (Proverbs 14:1). That means everyone in her family – husband / “baby daddy”, children, pets, everyone.

      Liked by 3 people

      • redpillboomer says:

        Yes, agree. I was thinking more of the suburban & city women (not the urban centers, but the semi-upscale and upscale apartment/condo dwelling areas). What seems to be piling up is single, post-wall women, 35 and above. I can rattle off 10-12 I know off the top of my head. They all fit the stereotype: Career oriented, still fairly good-looking (some very good looking), in shape figure-wise, not Cluster B head cases…AND…single, single, single…on every dating app known to (wo)man and looking for SOME GUY, SOMEWHERE that meets their still relatively high standards for a long term, committed relationship, aka marriage. That’s the type I see beginning to ‘pile up’ all around me, and I (being an older dude) don’t really move in those circles much, primarily just the educational program I partake in that many of them do as well.

        Like

      • Oscar says:

        I was thinking more of the suburban & city women (not the urban centers, but the semi-upscale and upscale apartment/condo dwelling areas).

        Point taken.

        What seems to be piling up is single, post-wall women, 35 and above. I can rattle off 10-12 I know off the top of my head.

        Dang! Makes me wonder if I know that many. I work for a major aerospace manufacturer, but I don’t really socialize with coworkers, so I don’t know what their lives are like outside of work.

        Like

      • SFC Ton says:

        These social experiments always wreck the most vulnerable ie low iq 1st.

        Which is probably some not small percentage of why the upper class loves the social experiments

        Liked by 1 person

      • Oscar says:

        @ SFC

        I remember when I used to think that policy makers were misguided. At some point you just have to accept that they know what they’re doing, and they’re doing it on purpose.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. lastmod says:

    I guess any young man is going to have to be introduced to the Amish at this point to meet a potential wife with zero red-flags or we’re going to have to go ‘medieval’ and do weekly hymen checks…….so hopeless for any young single man now……even if he gets IOI’s….99% of all women are damaged goods, soiled, feminist…….

    And what will eb the choice in five, or ten years when these young men are now well into their thirties? Settle? Burn? MGTOW?

    Most are not going to find a woman like you all did………and yet you will hold them to the standards and metrics you went by. You’ll call them beta and “not real men” for taking a risk, and then when she blows it up “well the red flags were all there….” will be your responses.

    I gleen that many of you enjoy the fact that these young and mature men are going to be stuck…and then you’ll freak when they go “black pill” or “MGTOW” or “incel”

    and what of the men that are well be low the 80%….which many young men today are? 100% of the below 80% are not going to move into that top ten percent like you all, and many wouldn’t be allowed by the likes of you if they even tried or attempted.

    Like

  10. lastmod says:

    “Dang! Makes me wonder if I know that many. I work for a major aerospace manufacturer, but I don’t really socialize with coworkers, so I don’t know what their lives are like outside of work.”

    Yeas…if they all were only like you

    Like

  11. Ame says:

    OP –
    ideas are important. Do not think that they are essentially harmless. They are not. The contemporary ideas that are in broad circulation in our culture point in one direction only – away from God and towards the self and the gratification of our appetites and desires.

    Ideas matter. They seep into everything. They may seem harmless at first, but then they grow and lead to bigger ideas, and soon enough, they are replacing other ideas wholesale… and the entire person’s conception of who they are and what they are about changes utterly as a result of being oriented around an utterly different set of ideas.

    yes!

    we are to be very careful what we expose ourselves to, what we read, what we hear, what we see. there are things one person can see, hear, read, that another cannot. we need to know and protect our minds and the minds of our children. verses about not looking to the left or the right … and these from Luke 11:33 “No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a secret place or under a basket, but on a lampstand, that those who come in may see the light. 34 The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, when your eye is good, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is bad, your body also is full of darkness. 35 Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. 36 If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole body will be full of light, as when the bright shining of a lamp gives you light.”

    it’s why God commands the Israelites over and over and over and over ad nauseam to remember God’s laws and statutes, to teach them to their children, to imprint them on their minds, to speak of them when they rise and when they sleep. because we are ‘stiff-necked’ as God called the Israelites, and we are easily led astray like sheep. sin always begins in our minds – ideas. thoughts. and women, by nature, always want more than what they have (Eve’s temptation).

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Ame says:

    In the context of a marriage, this kind of transformation is typically fatal, because the person who is transformed in the way they view themselves generally asks themselves, at some point in that process of transformation, whether the “new version” of themselves would have ever decided to marry their current spouse to begin with, or whether their current spouse is simply a poor fit for the “person they now know themselves to be”. The core logic, which is entirely self-centered, asks whether “this marriage makes sense for the Real Me”.

    In other words, if you allow someone to redefine themselves in a significant way during the marriage, without being challenged, although you may think you are being supportive of their “journey of self-discovery” (something the culture and even many churches will blare loudly in your face 24/7 today), all you are really doing is creating a ticking time bomb that could very well blow up in your face once the transformation is fully in place.

    And it makes perfect sense — she has changed, and you have not. She has a different perspective, now, on almost everything — she sees the entire world differently. And that will almost always include how she sees you, how she views men, relationships, sex, and the kinds of men she desires, and seeks for relationships, and so on. (Jack would say that this kind of change “de-sanctifies” or defiles the marriage.)

    When someone fundamentally changes, such that their worldview itself changes, there is simply a substantial risk that you, having been selected under their prior/”false”/old worldview, simply do not fit into their new vision of themselves, into how they see their “Real Me” and the kind of life that their “Real Me” really wants. And when that happens, in our culture it is only a matter of time until the marriage ends — Christian, kids, or not.

    this is so critical.

    change is inevitable. it will happen. we will change. life happens. we change.

    what W did was focused all the change on me me me me me me me. there’s no room for anyone or anything else in that paradigm. she made herself a god and worships herself and expects others to, too. if you don’t want to, fine, just drop out of my circle. there’s no room for that.

    in marriage, as wives, we must choose to remain under our husbands throughout the lifetime of our marriage in order to honor God. as we change, we continue to choose to remain under our husbands. as they change, we continue to choose to remain under our husbands. it’s not an option if we want to honor God.

    but when we choose to make ourselves our own god and honor only me, that paradigm leaves no room for anyone else.

    Liked by 5 people

  13. Ame says:

    So I expect she will look to other lines of . . .

    absolutely. depravity is never satisfied. it’s a beast that is never satiated. no matter how much it consumes, it is never content, never full, never at peace. destruction is redefined b/c it’s the only thing that feeds the beast.

    it’s why Christianity is SO counter-cultural …

    24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. I Corinthians 9:24-27

    11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:11-13

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Scott says:

    Hey guys-

    Take a look at this one. I really would like some interaction and input here. Jack, if you want to make this a stand alone post, go for it.

    Like

    • Oscar says:

      I hope Elspeth gets a chance to comment on this video.

      A friend of mine was in a very similar situation to Scott’s client, right down to the military career. She ended up marrying a man who was single, with no kids, and as far as I can tell has been a great husband and step-dad.

      Here’s the key, though. My friend’s husband is definitely not the kind of guy she dated when she was younger. He’s not tall, dark or handsome, but he’s a good man with a stable personality, and a good career.

      In other words, when a woman puts herself in this situation, she needs to adjust her expectations, and it really helps if she’s grateful when/if she finds a man who’s willing to take the risk of marrying a single mom.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Elspeth says:

        Just spent the past few days traveling, but I look forward to watching this later today.

        Like

      • redpillboomer says:

        I watched the video. I too know of a similar situation, military couple et al. It’s working out pretty good so far. She’s 34, he’s 35, ten years married, so that put her at 24, almost the same age as the woman in the clip. Father of her first child, irresponsible, wanted no part of the child. Military man from her hometown, knew her back in their high school days, wifed her up, step-dad to her firstborn. The one big thing for her, she was a beauty in HS and College, cheerleader for a major university–need I say any more? She had to shift her expectations from giga Chad down to something more reasonable. She got a good man, but he is not alpha Chad. Hubby has some alpha qualities, but is short, so is she so it works. He is handsome, and now makes pretty good money as an AF officer. She just completed her nursing degree and has a ER job. They also have their own little girl to go along with her son…Here’s my point in all this: It could work for the lady in the clip, however, she is going to have to let go of any idea of a really high value male wife’ing her up, and ‘settle’ for a good man and do it soon as her SMV will only decline as the years go on through her twenties. The kind man the women don’t want in their twenties during their ‘You go girl’ phase of life because well, she can ‘have it all’ as the world continuously preaches to her.

        Like

    • Jack says:

      @dsklajic,
      I’ve written a rough draft covering your video. It’s in the drafts folder. You can finish it out. It will be posted on Saturday.
      While you’re at it, please proofread the other drafts there too.

      Like

  15. Elspeth says:

    I commented on the video more direcltly over where Scott posted it, but I have other thoughts that are worth considering. The first is that false notion that a woman who has a child out of wedlock is necessarily bad wife material.

    My stepmother had two children, born to her as a teenager (16 and 18), when my father married her. She was 28, he was 49, and even now she’s better looking than most late 60-something women. Not in the glamorous Hollywood sense, because she is (and has been since she married my father), a modest Christian woman and an excellent wife. I mean in the sense of great skin, smile, not overweight, etc. .Of course, it’s not 1981 anymore, and things have changed quite a bit since then, but my point is that regeneration is available to women and men alike.

    As for the young woman in the video, she’s in a wholly different situation than my stepmom was because the men of today (under 40) were raised in a different culture than my Silent father or even my GenX husband. Black men, in aggregate, are raised without fathers, and are raised with the expectation that their women should be pulling half the financial weight. Clearly it’s not universal, since my husband has a more traditional approach. However, he also came from an intact family with an unmistakable understanding that the husband is the head of the home, same as I did. Here was my take on her specific situation:

    Scott, I think your first line of attack, if you will, to go back to the beginning and analyze her decision making process, is an excellent start.

    Culturally, she’s going to have to make some hard decisions about mate selection going forward if she desires the kind of traditional marriage dynamic she expressed. First, she needs to talk to her daughter’s father and make clear to him that she cannot waste anymore years on the status quo. Ideally he’ll wake up. It sounds unlikely and even miraculous, but I think she should give him time (90 days?) to show some real, tangible evidence that he is serious about his life. Not jailhouse religion stuff, either. I’m really not sure she should even give him that, but I’m thinking about the child. If there is any way possible for this child to be raised with her mother and father, then she should shoot for that, but not if it means modeling a level of lifetime dysfunction that sets her daughter up to make the same mistakes. Note that the boyfriend’s mother pretty much modeled for the boyfriend exactly what he is doing right now. The child must be saved from that, if it’s possible. The second decision is an even harder one for most black women to shift into.

    By that I mean, dating for character, faith, goal orientation, and worldview first, then ethnic/racial background second. I know that it is possible that she could meet a great marriageable black man who can be most of what she desires. I married one of those. However, the reality is that culturally, most black men aren’t raised to be primary breadwinners to a wife who is primarily home focused. Even some of the best black husbands I know, who are excellent men, simply do not operate on that paradigm. I know a few, but they are 5% of marriageable black men, who are already in short supply.

    The red pill line (including the black manosphere line) is that no one wants black women, which is actually not true. Black women who are fit, attractive, articulate, and divested from the dysfunction plaguing mainstream black culture can (and do!) marry men of other ethnic backgrounds all the time. The numbers (at least in our neck of the woods) seem to be increasing all the time. The baby makes it harder, but her lack of faith also gives her more options, to be honest.

    Just my .02. Or well, more like .25

    Liked by 2 people

    • cameron232 says:

      @ Elspeth

      I cannot watch videos from where I’m at (they’re blocked).
      “The first is that false notion that a woman who has a child out of wedlock is necessarily bad wife material.”

      I think the manosphere position would be that a child out of wedlock makes her higher risk. I have seen single moms who make good wives but as a group they are higher risk.

      “regeneration is available to women and men alike.”

      Regeneration means different things to different Christians. To Catholics, and I assume Orthodox, concupiscence remains, the command of the will is nowhere near guaranteed after baptismal regeneration. Even among Evangelicals, it means different things to Calvinists, Lutherans, Arminians (free-willers), etc. Women (and men) can still be “high risk” even if their conversion seems authentic.

      “The red pill line (including the black manosphere line) is that no one wants black women, which is actually not true. Black women who are fit, attractive, articulate, and divested from the dysfunction plaguing mainstream black culture can (and do!) marry men of other ethnic backgrounds all the time. The numbers (at least in our neck of the woods) seem to be increasing all the time.”

      Somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago (I’d estimate) they’re was a sudden and dramatic increase in the media encouraging black female/white male pairings. And in some cases Asian and Hispanic men. It was clear the media was/is trying to sell black women to men of other races (particularly white men). I think black men are naturally attracted to their women. I don’t think men of other races are particularly attracted to them (assuming they have a choice) short of being propagandized. I am sorry if that comes off as mean – that’s just my opinion.

      Sorry for the quote and respond style of this comment- some of the things you said interested me.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Elspeth says:

        I’m not offended Cameron.

        My belief has always been that it is foolish for any person to demand to be desired by everyone. All it really takes is to connect with one person.

        I made the conscious decision not to date a white man who was interested in me back in the day. I decided that it was not for me, but that was at a different time and place. I was specifically concerned with being fetishized, which my daughters find hilarious given their upbringing in MC/UMC American with all kinds of people.

        Our daughters, who have mostly ONLY ever been asked out by men of other races, turn down dates because of lack of faith in the person asking, not because they aren’t black. We’ve found that cultural similarities tend to overwhelm those differences, all things being equal.

        Now that said, it is what it is. I won’t even get into the toxic state of things between black men and women at present, nor the thing that you asserted that is demonstrably false. The stats are what they are as well. See which women the most successful black men marry.

        The reality is that in regions which are more both diverse AND largely MC/UMC, it’s a lot more nuanced than those of us over 40 realize.

        Nevertheless, some of your observations are correct, and I said very clearly that the baby makes her higher risk. I never meant to imply otherwise. The truth still remains, that if she is as attractive as Scott suspects she is, and she is willing to date a man about 10 years older, and she carries herself well, she has more options across the ethnic spectrum.

        I don’t have the energy to fight it out about WHETHER or not people should marry inter-ethnically. My husband and I have determined that religious devotion, the universal Christian family as preeminent, and our desire for grandchildren trumps ethnic differences.

        But again, different strokes for different folks.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Oscar says:

        @ Elspeth

        My husband and I have determined that religious devotion, the universal Christian family as preeminent, and our desire for grandchildren trumps ethnic differences.

        I’m a Hispanic immigrant, my wife is white American-born, and five of our kids are Ethiopian, so I’m right there with you.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Novaseeker says:

        I think black men are naturally attracted to their women. I don’t think men of other races are particularly attracted to them (assuming they have a choice) short of being propagandized. I am sorry if that comes off as mean – that’s just my opinion.

        Not really the case, at least not any longer. It was more that way around 20 years or so ago.

        Generally speaking, you get more interracial relationships and dating across the board as you get (1) more diverse community (not balkanized, living in separate enclaves side-by-side like old NYC was but actually mixed in and living in the same place) and (2) higher SES bands, like the upper part of the middle-middle and the upper middle. And those characteristics are NOT geographically equally distributed … AT ALL. So the situation for interracial dating in Omaha is different from the situation in Los Angeles — bigly.

        In the DC region, the level of interracial dating has literally skyrocketed in the past 20 years, and the change is almost all among the under-40, highly-educated, upper-middle-middle to upper-middle class group. It’s utterly dissimilar generationally — there was a generational change in this area in the past couple of decades, just like there was a generational change about tattoos, a generational change about attitudes towards “LGBT” and so on … the younger people are different across the board than Gen X and older are.

        The distribution of interracial relationships here in the DC area is very differential, as well, as between different “groups”, by race and sex. This is also slowly changing, mind you … but only relatively slowly, at least in a visible way. WW/BM and WM/WF couples are still the most common across the board, and the most visible … the former has become common enough among UMC couples, among the young, that it is now unremarkable and, honestly, not surprising. Educated, attractive young black men with decent careers do extremely well with educated, very attractive young white women in DC currently, and this is now seen almost everywhere here. The WM/AF is about the same as it was 20 or so years ago, perhaps a little less conspicuous than it was, perhaps a little less common. Latinos are a mixture of groups themselves, with the more “white” appearing Latinos having dating patterns that are more like the white counterparts of their sex, and the more “mestizo” appearing Latinos dating mostly other Latinos, still, at least here. On a blended basis, there is a significant amount of interracial dating among Latinos, therefore — but when you actually look at who is involved, it’s differential. BW/WM has been a growing, and much more common, pairing among young educated people here as well … it is not nearly as visually commonplace as WW/BM, but it’s a lot more common than it was 20 years ago, and is obviously growing. There are also quite a few BW/LM couples, also more than 20 years ago but the difference isn’t as stark. The ones who date interracially the least are AMs, whether of the Southern or Eastern variety. This appears to be a combination of cultural stigmas (esp for South Asians) and appearance preferences (esp for East Asians) of North American women (of whatever race), when it comes to assessing men, and that seems like a tough nut to crack for these guys. 20 years ago people would compare BWs and AMs in terms of having the “worst” position in the interracial dating hierarchy of that period, but since interracial dating has really taken off in the intervening 20 years, the situation of BWs has significantly improved, while AMs are still mostly languishing relative to other groups.

        Again, this is local. Dating market conditions vary substantially locally, and in particular interracial dating, because it is simply more common where there are more young people who are ethnically diverse living in the same places and with high educations and higher than average socio-economic status … and that is decidedly “not everywhere”. The conditions where you are likely differ, in either direction, from what I have described above for DC, but since DC is quite disproportionately higher educated and skews young, I would guess that interracial dating is a bigger thing here than in some other places currently (say, Omaha or Oklahoma City).

        Liked by 2 people

      • cameron232 says:

        “nor the thing that you asserted that is demonstrably false.”

        So truthfully I asserted this false thing (I suspected it was false) to sound like less of a jerk and out of a desire not to hurt. For a racist guy, I’m pretty timid – what can I say.

        I didn’t really want to fight about the whether (or anything else) either. What jumped out at me was this:

        “numbers seem to be increasing all the time.”

        There has been a very rapid and very great increase in black female/white male miscegenation (yeah I know that’s a bad word) propaganda over the past 5-10 years. I have been, let’s say, anti-anti-racist for a pretty long time. I noticed when it suddenly, rapidly increased. So did the Mrs.

        Despite what we might read in dark corners of the internet, mainstream white people’s anti-racism is ever increasing, especially among middle class Christians who react to the left’s ever more hysterical charges of racism by becoming more and more anti-racist.

        There is a lack of available women of any race for white men.

        IMO, these are the reasons for the numbers increasing all the time. But who knows.

        Like

      • cameron232 says:

        @ Nova,

        See my response to Elspeth just above for why WM/BW.

        My opinion is that (let’s assume no obesity since that’s an extremely recent thing) unpropagandized, non-liberal men in general prefer European women, then Northeast Asian, then brown women, then black women. On average, given the qualification that there’s ugly and pretty women of all races. There’s an ultra-blonde chick here who looks like Shrek’s girlfriend (married to an Asian guy).

        Maybe that’s just my bias.

        I think women of all races can be attracted to black men. Whatever their faults (at a group level) black men aren’t p_sssies suffering from a lack of masculinity.

        Like

      • redpillboomer says:

        “There is a lack of available women of any race for white men.”
        I thought this was the other way around, i.e. there is a lack of available white men WILLING to COMMIT to MARRYING women of any race? Hence the increasingly publicly vocal female lament, “Where have all the good men gone?”

        Liked by 1 person

    • Oscar says:

      Cameron said:

      I think the manosphere position would be that a child out of wedlock makes her higher risk. I have seen single moms who make good wives but as a group they are higher risk.

      I think that’s correct. Very few things are guaranteed in this life (we all die, and…. what else?), so we typically gauge risk against potential reward.

      A driver with lots of speeding tickets needs to accept the fact that he presents a higher risk, and therefore will have to pay higher car insurance premiums. An obese smoker needs to accept the fact that he presents a higher risk, and therefore will have to pay higher life insurance premiums.

      Likewise, a single mom needs to accept the fact that she presents a higher risk, and therefore will have to adjust her expectations accordingly. Some men are willing to take the risk, but increasing numbers are not.

      As for regeneration: yes, it’s available to both men and women. But, we don’t know what’s inside another person’s heart and mind. We can observe actions, and listen to words (Matt. 7:15-20, James 3:10-12). That’s it.

      Then, we take our chances. Or not.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. Scott says:

    For what it’s worth, the client I’m referring to is totally open to dating outside her race. She almost sounds like she’s resigned herself to it. (Not in a bad way).

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Elspeth says:

    @ Cameron:

    For the record, I am not an anti-racist. I think the entire ideology is toxic and anti-Christian. I certainly don’t think any group of people owes me or mine any deference in any area of life, including mate selection. Our children are infinitely more “privileged”, if you will, than a lot of poorer, less educated white children in various situations around the country. I believe that Christians who wade into this nonsensical ideological debate, stipulating the terms of the left, are opening themselves up to all kinds of heresy and anti-Biblical doctrine. Which is why there are so many people in the church drinking the anti-racism Kool-aid without recognizing that it is laced with poison.

    I respect your race-consciousness, and I don’t believe we can or should live in a colorblind society. We have eyes for a reason! I just happen to believe that as cultures have cut across these physical markers of identity, people are certainly more apt to find themselves attracted to people outside their ethnic groups.

    I am a staunch proponent of unity based on Biblical principles. As a protestant, and one who is hesitantly realizing that we embrace a lot of Reformed doctrine, I believe that Scripture is sufficient to answer all of these questions. Yeah, I know you’re Catholic and you have a different take, which I ALSO wholly respect.

    I have to ask, though, was the blond, blue-eyed cop who pursued me in the early 90s while I was waiting tables to put myself through college, propagandized? I highly doubt it. That was nearly 30 years ago before everyone went woke. Or what about Richard and Mildred Loving, circa 1965? My point being, as has always been my point, that while aggregate group statistics are instructive, at the end of the day, whom a person marries is mostly a matter between them, hopefully their parents, hopefully their church, and the Lord.

    And since the reality is that most people still marry within their ethnic groups (except maybe Asian-American women?), and there is an entire continent of African people who are lot more pure bred than me, my verifiable mutt of a husband and our kids, we have determined that prizing race over other areas of commonality (faith culture, and worldview).

    Oh yeah, it wouldn’t have been “jerky” to acknowledge that black men (particularly of a certain status) prefer to marry outside their race. Truth is not offensive to those who desire to hold to the Truth. But since you acknowledge that, then surely you can appreciate that black women who have the bona fides to do so should certainly expand their options in order to maximize their possibilities of marrying at all.

    Like

    • cameron232 says:

      @ Elspeth

      I would not and did not suggest that a white man has never been attracted to a black woman except when propagandized. I did not and do not think that no black women is attractive, either objectively or to white men. I am talking about what we see at aggregate levels and reasons why such things are increasing.

      I suppose I used anti-anti-racist to mean I’m race conscious – so you called it correctly. Thank you for the respectful treatment.

      I also have a bug up my butt because I resent being propagandized. We probably watch too much TV – they are laying it on thick.

      From my observations, black women generally want black men. They do not (most of them) want white men. I acknowledge their difficult situation.

      Like

      • Elspeth says:

        Yes, most black women, particularly age 30+, prefer black men. Black women of all ages who grow up in predominantly black comunities also prefer black men.

        MC/UMC black women? They are a lot more open, for a lot of the reasons Nova has laid out, mostly related to education and class. Black women are outstripping black men in terms of education and economic progress. With that has come an expansion of their outlook on this issue.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        I would agree about the constant messaging

        If you were an alien who came here from outer space and all you did was watch TV you would think there are almost zero white, nuclear intact families at all. Nothing but mixed race, gender fluid blended whatever ones.

        I don’t care other than how skewed from reality it is.

        Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        @Scott
        I care for other reasons than accuracy but that’s me.
        The pairings are not random. It’s not just a matter of no intact white families. There is a very deliberate push for white-male/black-female coupling. They seem to feel that they pushed the black-male/white female thing as far as they needed to. Time to push the opposite pairing.

        Like

  18. Elspeth says:

    I find that less television and more books is the cure for having one’s soul vexed by the near constant propaganda.

    Liked by 4 people

  19. Scott says:

    Man GenX can’t get a break

    20 something in this office said “ok boomer” to me today

    I’m like

    Breakfast club?
    Duran Duran?
    We were teenagers when this guy Regan was president?

    Not ringing a bell?

    Geez

    Liked by 4 people

    • Scavos says:

      Us, Millennials, are getting the same treatment too.

      Like

    • lastmod says:

      Yeah……..GenX is less than half the size of the Boomers before us, and the Millennials behind us. Just as we were coming of age, and having our brief “up and coming generation” attention in the mid 1990’s. We we suddenly told about these kids (Millenials) who were bright, creative, smart, amazing, brilliant and we going to solve everything, and knew more than us at age 6, 10, 12……and then the Boomers calling us “slackers”

      GenX is known sadly only for “Grunge” (which has aged terribly) and the TV show “Friends” (at least it was a funny show, or had its moments). Most of GenX spend their twenties bookended by two Bush administrations and the “Clinton years” in between.

      You and I will differ here Scott but I really hated the 1980’s. Being an awkaward teen in the sticks of northern New York State. Perhaps if I had grown up in a small city or grew up in California instead of a hamlet of 800 people might have changed a trajectory for me. Who knows? I look back on that decade with a sadness and a tough time. I also grew up in a region where Reaganomics had a devestating aftermath….saw all the factories, lumbering, small paper mills and everything else close. “Go live on welfare” or “put your nose to the grindstone, and a few weeks you will be a lawyer” seemed to be the attitude politicians in that era told Upstaters. Being a teen is never really easy anytime I suppose……

      Like

  20. Random Angeleno says:

    A friend whose second marriage is doing well once told me that the lesson from his first marriage was to embrace conflict and negative attitude changes as opportunities to engage on his terms. Not to mention opportunities to draw a solid line as needed. He said if a man is conflict avoidant, that won’t bode well for his marriage as chances are very good he’ll keep yielding ground to his wife to avoid the conflicts. But it is often beyond a husband’s comprehension why the conflict keeps happening even though he’s so agreeable. My friend never understood that in his first marriage until it was too late to save it. My lesson too as it was one of the reasons my own marriage failed.

    Now it’s easy in hindsight to say H should have confronted W early on. As some have already said above. But maybe I think there wasn’t enough awareness on his part at that time. As has also been said above. But fast forward to 2020 and ’21 and men should have much greater awareness of the pitfalls women can fall into on their own without any real checks on their behavior. No excuse anymore for not knowing. But just knowing not enough, men have to embrace the conflict inherent in getting their wives to check their attitudes. Yes it’s risky, doing that knowing it may still not be enough. In some cases, women may just absolutely be determined to choose a path that’s inimical to marriage and family. Even while she has kids to deal with.

    Maybe Jack can refer us to posts on engaging a wife who goes through an attitude change that is not necessarily for the better. Maybe there is a discussion to be had on the attitude changes that should show up on a husband’s radar detector. A listen to his gut moment, perhaps.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      “A friend whose second marriage is doing well once told me that the lesson from his first marriage was to embrace conflict and negative attitude changes as opportunities to engage on his terms. Not to mention opportunities to draw a solid line as needed. He said if a man is conflict avoidant, that won’t bode well for his marriage as chances are very good he’ll keep yielding ground to his wife to avoid the conflicts. But it is often beyond a husband’s comprehension why the conflict keeps happening even though he’s so agreeable. My friend never understood that in his first marriage until it was too late to save it. My lesson too as it was one of the reasons my own marriage failed.

      Maybe Jack can refer us to posts on engaging a wife who goes through an attitude change that is not necessarily for the better.”

      A few years ago, I wrote several posts about how a man should actually be making demands and CREATING conflict, at least more than the woman does. This is important because it actually improves the relationship over time! This is so counterintuitive that it needs to be taught to younger men.

      These two posts talk about the importance of men embracing conflict in a relationship.
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2017/11/15/conflict-structure-and-marital-satisfaction/
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/pushing-the-line/

      Other relevant posts can be found at this page.
      https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/discipline-marriage/

      Like

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