“Flipping the Switch” is God’s Gatekeeping, not her Tingle management

Submission to sexual authority is subordinant to God’s prerogatives.

Readership: Christians

Flipping the Switch

Under a previous post, Why is premarital sex a sin? (2020 August 14), Bee123456 wrote,

“I recommend that instead of thinking and writing that women are the gatekeepers of sex, that God is the gatekeeper of sex. When God is the gatekeeper, both men and women need to fear God and refrain from sex while they are single. When married, God flips a switch, and now the husband and wife own each other sexually. It is marriage and God’s rules that opens the gate for sex to occur righteously and frequently.

When we award women the gatekeeper role, this can allow the following actions:

  1. If the woman is willing to have sex before marriage, then the man can think that this is good since the gatekeeper is opening the gate to him.
  2. If the woman is the gatekeeper, then she is encouraged to continue to practice gatekeeping after they are married; deciding when and how often to allow the husband to have sex with her. [For example,] Dalrock highlighted how Seminary President Al Mohler has been teaching men and women this false idea that married men need to continually earn the right to sex from their wife.
The Girl at the Gate, by Sir George Clausen (1889)

In general, I believe Bee’s perspective is patently true, based on 1st Corinthians 6:12-20 (NKJV).

13 Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

18 Flee sexual immorality.  Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.  19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?  20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

In the very next chapter about marriage, we see how God “flips the switch”, as Bee put it.

Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman.  Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.  Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.  The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.  And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

1st Corinthians 7:1-4 (NKJV)

Here, we see that St. Paul describes marriage as one’s body being the possession of his/her spouse.  To amplify this a bit, we might even think of Biblical marriage as being your spouse’s sex slave.  In this statement, I am not referring to BDSM, but rather the idea that if your spouse says “Jump me in bed!”, or makes an equivalent non-verbal invitation, then you have to jump on that at the soonest and nearest possible convenience, and do it until he/she is satisfied.

How does “flipping the switch” happen?

For most people, they eventually become enslaved to their sexual desires at some point in their youth, simply because this is the natural drive of procreation.  But the question of morality dictates how this should be handled. The moral approach would be to get married before (or when) this occurs. The immoral approach would be to pursue the carnal nature for its own pleasures, consequences be d@mned.

Many young Christians who want to get married are overwhelmed by the idea of “Now we get to have sexxx…  SEXXX!!!” This attitude towards marriage is naïve because it is taken as permission to gratify their desires, rather than as a duty to have sex on demand, and to glorify God.  They do not seem to comprehend the core aspect of marriage as becoming a slave to your spouses and your own sexual desires.  Instead they revel in the joys of being enslaved to their desire without any moral retribution.  This is a reality that should be emphasized to young people, because this might help them crystallize a more realistic regard for sex and marriage.

There has been a lot of argument (especially from women) about how “flipping the switch” is unrealistic.  The typical argument states that it’s unreasonable to expect women to go from being pure, chaste virgins to ravenously horny housewives upon being married.

I would agree that this is nearly impossible for a woman who has already been around the block.  Since it is these kinds of women who make this argument so vehemently, it is clear that this argument is made on the basis of preserving their egos and the feeling of being in control. 

But in fact, we see this switch being flipped all the time.  It happens when a young woman has sex for the first time (or the first few times).  She suddenly changes from a passive, naïve girl with flighty dreams about romance, into an edgy, $ћit testing, c0ck craving nympho.  Moreover, this reality only highlights the necessity of remaining chaste before marriage.  But instead, these days we see too many women, even within the Church, who are all too willing to spill their beans, eagerly becoming slaves to their desire.

Waiting, by Claude Monet (1889).

Conclusions

If a woman was to adopt the mindset of gatekeeping for God, then this loses traction if she also chooses which man she wants to marry. I’m not saying this is wrong, but only that it is easy for her to lose sight of herself as an instrument in God’s hands, and see marriage more as a vehicle to satisfy the Tingles. Or else postpone marriage until such an opportunity arises, if ever.  Same goes for men. Men typically have a low interest in marriage, except when it is believed that (1) marriage might increase the frequency of sex, or (2) marriage is the only morally licit context for sex.  If men and women regarded marriage as a primary venue of submitting to God’s authority, and expressing their own sexual authority, and not so much as a moral context to access the gratification of being enslaved to one’s sexual desire, I believe this shift in consciousness may prove to be very rewarding.

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About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Boundaries, Consent, Courtship and Marriage, Desire, Desire, Passion, Discipline, Education, Enduring Suffering, Female Power, Fundamental Frame, Glory, Headship and Patriarchy, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Moral Agency, Personal Presentation, Purpose, Relationships, Respect, Self-Concept, Sexual Authority, Stewardship, The Power of God, Vetting Women. Bookmark the permalink.

29 Responses to “Flipping the Switch” is God’s Gatekeeping, not her Tingle management

  1. Elspeth says:

    sigh.

    But in fact, we see this switch being flipped all the time. It happens when a young woman has sex for the first time (or the first few times). She suddenly changes from a passive, naïve girl with flighty dreams about romance, into an edgy, $ћit testing, c0ck craving nympho.

    That’s one type of woman, and it’s not the same woman who has been told her entire life that sex is dirty, and something she gives to her husband as a trade-off for his provision and protection. This has been changing as the church has been growing more liberal and talking more openly about things our parents wouldn’t dare utter out loud. But there are a subset women who enter marriage with a mental block, who see sex as a price they pay for all the other benefits of marriage. And when they have been taught that, even being chaste until the wedding day will not ensure that the “switch is flipped”.

    A worldly young woman (or one who at least views sex as something to look forward to) is the woman described in your above quote. To the extent that the majority of women in the church are worldly, you have a point, but it’s far from universal applicability.

    In our family, we always made it clear that sex is not dirty, but rather that it is holy. The context in which you approach it determines whether or not it is dirty. It is to be avoided at the wrong time because it’s purpose is a holy one, and in that purpose, it is pleasurable and beautiful.

    However, just as every other part of our Christian walk grows with time and experience, so it is with sex. We haven’t quite gotten to this part of the conversation yet, but I will when one of our daughters is engaged. Too many people get their understanding of sex from movies. We’re a screwed up generation in more ways than one.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Sharkly says:

      “In our family, we always made it clear that sex is not dirty, but rather that it is holy. The context in which you approach it determines whether or not it is dirty.”

      I’ll complicate it a bit further.
      1 Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
      Men are the image and glory of God. Men image Christ the savior of the church, who took the sin of the redeemed upon himself and died that we might live.(Ephesians 5:23) Christ bore our sin in His body upon the cross.(1 Peter 2:24) The body of Christ was defiled so that we might be united together with Him. By his stripes we are healed.

      Revelation 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
      All married men are defiled by consummating their marriage and becoming one flesh with a woman. The only men who are undefiled are virgins like Jesus Christ who was the spotless Lamb of God and took our defilement upon Himself on the cross. Now you know why Jesus did not have a wife. He had to be an undefiled sacrifice, to take away our sins.
      Sex is a defilement of the man, the image and glory of God, while it glorifies the woman. As a woman becomes one flesh with the man she is exalted, joined to the image of God, and is “saved” through sex and childbearing.(1 Timothy 2:15) Basically she is saved by faith, and that faith is seen in her works of obedience to God by serving the purpose for which He created her, to serve and be a mate for a man. Not that single ladies can’t also be saved and dedicated to God. However a woman’s love for God is going to be seen in her desire to reverence His image as well. If a woman hates men, most certainly God is not in her.
      Epistle of “Mathetes” to Diognetus 10:2a For God loved men (… whom He created after His own image …) for whose sake He made the world, to whom He subjected all things that are in the earth … [This includes women, who are repeatedly told to be in subjection to their fathers and then husbands]

      Thus it would only be natural for God to give the man a strong sex drive. For if he was not compelled to, by natural affection, why else would a man defile himself and glorify a woman? Just to make children? Not hardly. Boys don’t play house, and rock their dolls. Boys dream of dominion. At puberty the sex drive shows up to incline the man towards the woman, to descend upon her, and glorify her into one flesh with him by putting the seed of his manhood inside her.
      “Hear me now, believe me later.”

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sharkly says:

        Perhaps this also explains why men were given so much higher levels of the androgens that cause sex drive. Because women have a natural reason to want to be exalted through sexual union with the image and glory of God, whereas men stand to gain little but defilement from sex, and therefore require a blindingly powerful desire to unite with women, who are all categorically inferior to men. So for women the sex drive is a natural urge, with a little hormonal boost, whereas for men the sex drive is almost entirely a hormonal override pushing them into a naturally self-degrading behavior. That’s just something to ponder.

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      • Oscar says:

        @ Sharkly

        God gave men a far stronger sex drive than women, because otherwise men would never put up with women.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Sharkly says:

        Correction: I didn’t mean to say that sex is a self-degrading “behavior”, but a self-degrading union. The sexual behavior is what it is. The union of the image and glory of God with a natural defiler, like Christ stooping to unite with the church, is a union of a superior becoming one with something inferior. It is a salvific/sacrificial union on behalf of the savior/bridegroom, who takes to bearing the shortcomings of the other party upon themselves.

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  2. cameron232 says:

    I like your comment Elspeth but it’s hard not to see sex as an exchange women make when so many of them don’t want to have sex with their husbands, whether or not the women were chaste and even with loving, devoted husbands. For sure, it’s a cynical view of marriage and one I don’t want to believe.

    I would like to see the church you describe as the norm.

    Also, not to sound like a jerk or get personal, but your statement is coming from a woman who married a very attractive man. I assume the personal details we put on here are fair game, not for hurting or insulting each other but simply for conversation and understanding.

    I don’t know if wanting to have sex with your husband is something the Holy Spirit cultivates. So I’m sorry if I have a very secular take on this.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Elspeth says:

      Cameron:

      My church isn’t one that is very useful in this regard. The understanding of sex and marriage that I described are what my husband and I have taught our children, and what we have grown to learn and understand.

      If I share something, then, it’s fair game I suppose. My husband is exceptional in some ways but also just an ordinary guy in others. He’s not a super alpha, but it’s true that this is not a problem I have encountered. However, I do know women who have encountered it. And I know this much:

      Wanting to want to do what’s right, coupled with earnest prayer and a willing heart makes way for the Holy Spirit to work in any area of life. The biggest issue women have to deal with in the current culture is accepting that our feelings aren’t inherently good or right, and that they are often explicitly evil and wrong, no matter how strongly we feel.

      Liked by 2 people

      • thedeti says:

        All true, Elspeth, but that is quite different from sexual attraction.

        A woman can want to do what’s right, pray fervently, and develop a willing heart, and the Holy Spirit will enable her to be a good wife and keep her vows. It might even make for OK sex.

        But that is ALL that will happen. It will not create visceral sexual attraction. It will not create really really good sex. She and her husband will probably never have really really good sex.

        I know you don’t want to believe this, but most women do not have the marital sexual experiences you’ve had, nor are most women marrying men they are really, really sexually attracted to. They’re just not. And I don’t think they ever really have been – the difference is that today, most women actually got to have mind blowing, really really good sex with men they were viscerally sexually attracted to, but they couldn’t get one of those viscerally sexually attractive men to commit to them.

        And this is great for women – she got to experience fantastic sex. After working that out of her system, she settles for a beta provider she’s “meh, yeah, sure, OK” about and has sex with him once a month or so. Great for her. Crappy for him.

        We can’t continue like this.

        Liked by 3 people

      • thedeti says:

        A major reason why the MMP is going into failure is because more and more men are increasingly realizing that good sex is something they’re never going to get from a marriage, ever. Nor are they going to get sex without getting married. So their choices are no sex, or crappy marital sex from a woman who doesn’t want to give it to them.

        Another major reason it’s going into failure is because more and more men just do not have what it takes to attract and keep a woman with them, and convince them that staying with those men for 30 years or more would be a good idea. They just don’t.

        Liked by 2 people

      • JPF says:

        deti wrote “more and more men are increasingly realizing that good sex is something they’re never going to get from a marriage, ever”

        This is something I knew before I finished high school. My God-given sexual desires were “wrong” and certainly would not be fulfilled — not by most of the women from my culture, “Christian” or not. In the years since, I have heard many (apparently) good Christian men articulate that this sad state is also true in their marriages, with their so-called “Christian” wife.

        What to do? Christian men need to recognize that God knows far more about this that the Christian men do. If she is not a virgin, she should not be getting married. Deuteronomy 22 makes clear that the correct course of action is to kill the woman that chooses to be a harlot and then later chooses to marry.
        Either her hymen is intact, or she is a widow, or she is rape victim, or she is unworthy of marriage to a Christian man. You cannot “reason” or “work” another option into existance. (See Matthew 5:31-32 for the idea of marrying a divorced woman.)
        For the sake of not trying to take authority away from other men, I must admit that the death of the harlot wife was at the discretion of the husband. The execution only was to take place if he chose to object. So if a man has chosen to marry a former harlot, that is his choice. A man in Mary’s lineage did this (one of the 12 spies married … ? I can’t remember her name). So if you choose to do this, it in within your free will. But this is not the correct situation or even close to what is best.

        Stop marrying “low N-count” sluts. Stop marrying sluts at all.

        And if you are then left with no one as a possible candidate, then either:
        a) make the effort to go search in a better location/culture. I had to go to Ukraine to get married. I’m sure closer, worthy women were available, but I did not find them or they did not think I was good enough for them. (Or good enough for them right then, when she still had youth and beauty to play with.) Or,
        b) accept that while it is unfair that YOU have to pay the consequences for the sin of another, that this is part of our world. And therefore you will have no wife, for there are no local women that are worthy of marriage with you. This sucks, and I’m sorry. But you can no more create a worthy woman than I could. Really think about option A; it is the only solution I can offer if you do not know any worthy women who live where you do.

        Liked by 3 people

      • thedeti says:

        One of the 12 spies married Rahab. She was the woman who helped the spies escape Jericho (I think) because she had heard of the Hebrews’ prior defeats of other city states and said in effect “I know God is with you and you have come to destroy this city, please remember me when you guys take this city down.”

        The spies honored Rahab by saving her during the attack. One of them married her. She played a pivotal role in Jericho’s defeat at the hands of the Hebrews. in the New Testament, Rahab is called a saint who lived by faith, and who was made righteous by her faith. Rahab had a change of heart and was saved for it. She was engrafted in and became one of God’s chosen people.

        Liked by 1 person

    • thedeti says:

      The number one problem in the MMP across the board is women marrying men they don’t want to have sex with, and doing so because they can’t get marriage from sexually attractive men.

      The main reason this is a problem is that almost all women marrying today have had sex with attractive men, men from whom they would gladly have accepted commitment if it were offered and all other relationship necessities were present.

      Almost all women are marrying men they didn’t really want to marry except for provision. Almost all women today are marrying men they’re a LOT less attracted to than the men they used to have sex with, who were the men they REALLY wanted.

      Almost all women today are marrying men for reasons other than sexual attraction. That’s always been the case, but the difference is that today, almost all women have a frame of reference having had sex with men who are WAY more sexually attractive than the men from whom she could actually get commitment. 100 years ago, that wasn’t the case – most women weren’t coming to marriage with Ns north of 5.

      The problem is not men. The problem is women.

      Liked by 4 people

      • whiteguy1 says:

        Yep. I’m seeing this first hand DETI
        I am guessing I’m more on the Scott side of the curve where I have witnessed the ‘crawling through broken glass’ to get to me, and the IOI’s from the younger demographic. But I KNOW that I’m not typical and the majority of men don’t get the attention I do from chicks (this is not a brag, it’s a complaint, I am introverted and loath the attention most of the time)
        And I don’t have good solutions for the other men out there. The Marriage Marketplace SUCKS, even for those of us in the top 20%.

        But that also leaves me with a dilemma, do I take the plunge again into marriage, knowing what I know, and take the risks with all that comes with involving the state into my life? I want more kids if God allows…So this leaves me with no good solutions. – WITHOUT A DOUBT no marriage will ever happen again without a solid Pre-nup.

        Looking back I was all sorts of naive 18 yrs ago, I only knew Crazy for 4 weeks before I asked her to marry me…(yes I was THAT STUPID) but I was able to hold things together for 16 yrs only costing me my most of my health and part of my soul, but at the end of the day I got the sex I wanted from her. BUT Crazy has her own issues, at the end of the day she looked at me as a wage mule, nothing more. She wouldn’t ‘crawl through broken glass’ to get to me, but she’s happy to throw broken glass at me for the rest of my days I assume!

        Liked by 2 people

  3. thedeti says:

    One more response and then I’ll stop hijacking the thread.

    You can’t have a functional marriage marketplace where the objective has a 50% failure rate, where the risks are enormous compared to the paltry benefits, and where one party (the man) will bear almost all the costs of failure.

    You can’t have a functional marriage marketplace where the man bears all the burdens and obligations and gets no benefits; and where the woman reaps all the benefits with no concomitant burdens or obligations.

    You can’t have a functional marriage marketplace where the man can’t get the one benefit he’s supposed to get from marriage (regular, decent, nonresentful, nongrudging sex at reasonable intervals from a woman who actually wants to give it to him) but you still demand that he bear all the burdens and obligations.

    You can’t have a functional marriage marketplace where the demand for sex vastly outstrips the willing supply, and where the suppliers refuse to provide that supply.

    Liked by 5 people

  4. princeasbel says:

    Completely agree on the phenomenon of women flipping a switch upon having sex for the first time. I have talked to secular men who have had sex with apparently conservative young women. Mormons or catholics in their case, and they talk about their sexual encounters with those women with fascination- but, it’s fascination mixed with some bewilderment and embarrassment. We’re talking about the girl acting ravenously thirsty for sex. We’re not just talking kinky stuff in bed, but having sex for hours, or all day-long. And right off the bat too! They personally experienced the switch being flipped. They were just so shocked to discover it, and I don’t blame them. Christians barely understand human sexuality- why would they?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jack says:

      @ PrinceAsbel,
      You obviously know what I’m referring to here.
      Yes, too many people are fully ignorant of how female sexuality works. Females will never talk about it because it’s obscene. The top 10% cads who know about it through experience will hardly ever talk about it either, because it’s embarrassing and incriminating. The other 90% of men don’t know about it because they’ve never experienced it (and in this current market, they never will).
      Your comment also drives home my central point about sexual authority. Namely, this female c0ckamania is the essence of a man’s sexual authority. Men who don’t experience this with their wives in marriage are being defrauded out of their authority over their wives. This is the primary reason for the demise of marriage.

      Liked by 3 people

      • cameron232 says:

        Dude, not to bust your b_lls but if 90% of men don’t know how nympho women are because they don’t experience it, how do you know about it? Are you saying you’re the 10% who experience the nympho c0ckamania? Where does your knowledge come from unless it’s firsthand?

        Like

  5. bee123456 says:

    After we were engaged and the wedding date was within a month, my Church going, Bible reading, fiance suddenly opened the gate and physically encouraged me to have sex with her before our wedding. I declined and told her that I feared the Lord and we needed to be a good testimony to the friends and relatives that lived nearby. Fortunately, she has continued to be a willing and frequent participant in having sex with me since our wedding. Neither one of us have had trouble flipping the switch.

    I have used this situation to emphasize my leadership or authority in the marriage. I have told her a number of times since our wedding that I declined her premature advances because God had made me the leader of our relationship and I was righteously managing the relationship to make sure that neither she or I sinned before our wedding. I also tell her that once we got married everything changed regarding sex and this is no longer sinful for us. I emphasize to her that our wedding makes a big change in God’s eyes towards us.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jack says:

      @ Bee,
      That’s exactly how it should go, including her enthusiasm for sex before marriage. You handled your authority over her correctly, and it led to good results.

      Liked by 2 people

  6. Sharkly says:

    “After we were engaged and the wedding date was within a month, my Church going, Bible reading, fiance suddenly opened the gate and physically encouraged me to have sex with her before our wedding.”

    FWIW marriage consists of consent to be wed,(betrothal) and consummation. God joins the two into one flesh when the man’s seed is implanted into the woman.

    The church wedding ceremony is just an earthly ceremony that began in medieval Europe as a Catholic effort to regulate the royalty. The pope could declare the betrothed to be an unbeliever and claim the royal couple wasn’t “Christian” and threaten to excommunicate the whole country if the political union was not in the best interest of the church of Rome. To show their sanction for church approved royal weddings, they held a ceremony in a church where the Catholic clergy declared the union to be sanctified. The church sanctioning became a fancy ceremony where the royals displayed their regalia. Soon lesser royals and rich people were paying the church to sanction their weddings too. Soon every bride wanted a fancy church wedding ceremony. Now it is a racket where for enough money churches will rent out their facilities and “marry” just about anybody who can afford to pay the fees to host their “wedding”. But God never asked for any of that medieval malarkey. It is just a tradition, a relic of the great whore of Rome’s power grab over the kings of the earth.

    Bee, if you had given your fiancé a good pussy pounding, your marriage would have happened right then, and been just as holy and righteous before the Lord. The church and their pageantry, along with their pretentious claims, is not necessary. “And now by the power vested in me, I pronounce you man and wife.” LOL No such power has been vested in any man. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man separate. God is the one who joins the couple, in honor of their mutual consent and the blood sacrament of the consummation sex. Even if it isn’t her first marriage, and she doesn’t bleed, the man’s seed still unites them into one flesh(perhaps through Microchimerism or something similar) according to the will of God. Neither can any church annul the work of God.

    Those were just some thoughts. Your wife wasn’t a wannabe whore, she was just by natural instinct wanting to get on with doing what God made her for. Don’t fault her for it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • cameron232 says:

      The pre-Constantine (so certainly pre-medieval) Christians generally celebrated marriages in private (later in front of the Church, even later in the Church). No big surprise given the environment. The rite involved the use of the pallium, described by early Church fathers as a distinguishing mark of Christians. The private ceremony was followed by a votive mass (not a “marriage mass” as some call it since the couple was already married). We have ancient texts that show the votive intentions.

      The theology of marriage was already well established by the third century. Marriage (sacramentum) is created by exchange of consent to God’s definition of marriage, the exchange often being symbolized by the physical exchange of some small token.

      Consummation makes the marriage indissoluble.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sharkly says:

        In this Patriarchal Wedding story, Rebekah was given away by her family in Aram after she consented to go and Marry Abraham’s son, Isaac, who was cousins with her father Bethuel, who was the son of Abraham’s brother Nahor.

        Genesis 24:57(Geneva) Then they said, We will call the maid, and ask her consent. 58 And they called Rebekah, and said unto her: Wilt thou go with this man? And she answered, I will go. …
        63 And Isaac went out to pray in the field toward the evening: who lift up his eyes and looked, and behold, the camels came. 64 Also Rebekah lift up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted down from the camel. 65 (For she had said to the servant, Who is yonder man, that cometh in the field to meet us? and the servant had said, It is my master) So she took a veil, and covered her. 66 And the servant told Isaac all things, that he had done. 67 Afterward Isaac brought her into the tent, of Sarah his mother, and he took Rebekah, and she was his wife, and he loved her: So Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.

        It is not recorded that anybody even asked Isaac whether he consented. By “taking” her sexually, he chose to take her as his wife. While there may have been other ceremony that happened unmentioned, what was mentioned is all that is necessary for a marriage to begin.
        I think many people imagine that a church or a judge or witnesses are required, because that is how our government generally immediately recognizes marriages as being “official” for legal purposes, but the government also deferredly recognizes the “common-law marriage” of cohabiting couples, so it is difficult to circumvent the long arm of the “family courts”.

        Liked by 1 person

      • cameron232 says:

        No offense intended but we won’t be able to get past this disagreement. I don’t consider the OT to be the guide to Christian marriage. In our understanding, Christ restored God’s original intent for marriage and this is reflected in the theology of the early Church & Church fathers. Like many things, it can be argued from the NT, and there are counterarguments of course.

        In our understanding the Church makes law in matters pertaining to the Church (such as marriage). The binding and loosing thing as we understand it.

        We would argue that the marriage described was natural not sacramental.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Sharkly says:

        cameron232,
        Don’t get me started on how the church has bound the hands of husbands from correcting their wives, and loosed the usurping of wives in all matters. If the church is “making law”, then it is judicial overreach as they legislate from the bench, adding to the word of God laws that God neither commanded, nor will He hold us to. The Pharisees were doing that in Jesus day too. My church just made a law saying all of your churches laws are bogus. Who you gonna go with? It might be best to just stick with what God has made law. Do you really need more laws to sin against? I’m sure that even within your church there are disagreements as to what is bound upon you.

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      • cameron232 says:

        Sharkly, canon law is the government of the Church itself, it being the visible Body of Christ and thus, a collection of persons. Also establishes basic disciplines among God’s people.

        RE: wifely submission, this is taught by Catechism, the exercise of the Churches magisterial authority. The following teaching has NEVER been rescinded:

        ” “On the other hand, the duties of a wife are thus summed up by the Prince of the Apostles: Let wives be subject to their husbands. that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word by the conversation of the wives, considering your chaste conversation with fear. Let not their adorning be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: but the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling hint lord.

        To train their children in the practice of virtue and to pay particular attention to their domestic concerns should also be especial objects of their attention. The wife should love to remain at home, unless compelled by necessity to go out; and she should never presume to leave home without her husband’s consent.

        Again, and in this the conjugal union chiefly consists, let wives never forget that next to God they are to love their husbands, to esteem them above all others, yielding to them in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and ready obedience.” [i]Catechism of the Council of Trent: The Sacrament of Matrimony[/i]”

        Liked by 1 person

    • bee123456 says:

      We chose a date and I insisted that we stick with it. I held frame. I would have lost frame and authority/leadership if I let her physical wiles, physical attraction cause me to suddenly change the date.

      I am not faulting her, but I am using it to remind and teach her about God giving me the authority to lead and steer the direction of the relationship. Also, helping her not to sin is part of washing her with the Word.

      Liked by 3 people

  7. bee123456 says:

    Big Picture; just because a woman opens the gate does not mean you should walk through the gate at that moment.

    Liked by 2 people

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