Is the Christian Red Pill a Black Pill?

A comparison of the Red Pill, the Christian Red Pill, and the Black Pill.

Readership: All
Length: 3,700 words
Reading Time: 13 minutes
Author’s Note: This essay was written from June 11 to November 28, 2020.
Warning: Certain images, topics, and language may be offensive to some readers.
Image Credit: Artwork by George Gross (1909-2003).


There is a common misperception that the “rules” of the Christian faith (i.e. the restriction against fornication) necessarily exclude a man from competing in the socio-sexual/marriage marketplace.  At its face, this impression appears to be true for several reasons.

  • The Blinding Effect – The charade of Christianity places a demand on certain social behaviors which contributes to legalism and makes authentic introspection difficult.  Men take these expectations seriously, while women see through the gauze of propriety and are typically double minded about these issues.
  • The Inefficacious Effect – The popular interpretation of male Christian morality effectively forbids Christian men from utilizing many forms of Game, including the highly effective Dread Game.
  • The Auto-Rejection Effect – A refusal to fornicate patently eliminates a man from obtaining the benefits of preselection.  This is because the most desirable women on the market will refuse to take him seriously.
  • The Halo Effect – Women are naturally attracted to bad boys.  If a man presents himself as a good guy, then he is invariably excluded from the attention of such women.  This could be interpreted as a good thing, but it is perceived as a rejection that knocks him down the totem pole.  It requires a greater degree of spiritual maturity for a man to recognize this as something that removes him from temptation.  But it may still be insufficient towards helping him find a suitable wife.
  • The Cucking Effect – The perceived exclusion from the marketplace sets a man up to fall victim to a defeatist, sexual poverty mentality, characterized by lust, p0rnography, and slogsterbation.
  • The Exclusion Effect – A man with a fiery libido who makes a commitment to sexual purity loses the subjective confidence and satisfaction that comes of getting regular action.
  • The Emasculating Effect – Most of the impressions listed above are crystallized and magnified by the heresies proffered by the converged church, which leave the frustrations of Blue Pill ideals intact, while placing an additional heavy burden of expecting specific emasculating behaviors of men.

But is this a true estimation of Christianity and the Life in Christ?

To answer this question, this essay presents a comparison of the Red Pill, the Christian Red Pill, and the Black Pill. It shows that the impression of the Christian Red Pill being a Black Pill is merely a smokescreen that denies the Power of Christ, and is intended to deflect or defer men from entering into the true life in the Spirit.

A cloud of smoke is used to conceal the movements of Security Forces Airmen from F.E. Warren Air Force Base, Wyo. during the Road Warrior exercise at Camp Guernsey, Wyo., Oct. 19, 2012. During the exercise, Airmen use various tactics to maintain the security of a nuclear convoy. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman Jarad A. Denton/Released)

What is the Red Pill?

The term Red Pill is basically a synonym for truth.  But more specifically, it is a particular collection of truths that went missing from common awareness over the past century, and which the majority of people still refuse to accept. The reasons for this attrition of awareness are diverse and profuse, but in general, it’s because these truths are impolite, embarrassing, unbecoming, or downright ugly. People find it much easier and more comfortable to stick their heads in the sand and continue running on autopilot.

Red Pill principles have identified the instinctive characteristics of our human nature and have matured to the point of forming praxeological predictive models.  A secular approach recognizes these social interaction behaviors as merely human nature.  A more scientific analysis recognizes human biodiversity (HBD), heredity, and evolutionary psychology.

Most secular RP proponents regard “female nature” as a problem to be solved.  The unspoken motivation that undergirds this perspective is that female nature does not naturally lend itself to the fulfillment of the vast majority of mens’ fleshly desires for sexual gratification.  Instead, Bulverizing, Gaslighting, $ћit Tests, and Social games (etc.) abound.  The female nature is therefore perceived as an obstacle that must be overcome in order for a man to F*ck at will.  Thus the secular man’s RP “solution” is to engage in sin nature themselves.  That is, he constructs his own system of moral rectitude — a mental structure of what is right or wrong — all determined by what actions can produce the favored “results”.  This is partly why the Red Pill has gained the description of being a religion.  The gods of this religion are many, including Ashtoreth (romantic love of females), Bacchus (drunkenness, hedonism), Isis (female authority), Molech (abortion, child sacrifice), and Peitho (persuasion, seduction).

Barefoot Sandal Babe on Twitter: "We're celebrating #Peitho, the #Goddess  of Persuasion and Seductive Speech. #Celebrate your inner goddess!"

What is the Christian Red Pill?

In addition to the precepts outlined by the Red Pill, a Christian approach to the Red Pill adds another layer of complexity because Christians recognize that some behaviors are conducive to Life in the Spirit, while others lead to spiritual death. 

The defining distinction made by the Christian RP is the observation that most men and women choose to abandon any sense of moral agency because they want to enjoy being under the controlling spell of their sinful nature more than they want to go against their nature and do what is right.  For example, the secular approach to the Red Pill utilizes the knowledge of human socio-sexual behaviors to pursue the gratification of the fleshly nature.  It gives no consideration of how to seek after God’s proscriptions for…

  • Honoring and glorifying God.
  • Pursuing your God ordained mission in life.
  • Living in peace with the Holy Spirit and your fellow man.
  • Promoting holiness, sexual purity, and marital sanctification.

When looking through this lens, it can be seen that some human behaviors are representative of God’s created order, some are benignly neutral, while others are expressions of the sinful nature.  On this, Ed wrote,

“Red Pill” should be used as a term for the lore. Much of it does explain human social behavior, but some of it is misleading. If you think about it, you’ll find that what Red Pill lore says about women in particular is reflected to some degree in Old Testament law and custom regarding women. They share underlying assumptions about how women behave in social situations.”

The CRP therefore attempts to fish out the truths of the RP to be used as an aid in understanding one’s self, and how to navigate through life in a fallen world.

Not all Red Pill knowledge describes traits of a sinful nature. Some are positive things. For example, secular Red Pill proponents recognize and believe that women are designed to submit to men. Christian Red Pill sees this as a God ordained social structure in which men are called to a position of authority and responsibility. Whereas secular Red Pill sees this as an alternative social structure in which they can exercise the power to gratify their own sinful desires.

Both systems recognize the reality of SMV parity, whether the person is a proper SMV match for you (viz. someone who is “within your league”).  The secular goal is to get the soul-numbing ego stroke that comes from bedding a piece that has a higher SMV than one’s self, and to avoid the consequences and entanglements that come with sexual bonding. Whereas, the Christian approach recognizes the wisdom of a man marrying a woman who is at his own level or one step lower.  This is because appeasing the female inclination towards hypergamy gives the man a greater degree of sexual authority in the union, thereby making the Headship structure much easier to attain.

Of note, the Christian RP approach does not regard female nature as a “problem to be solved” (in order to gain sexual access).  Instead, it recognizes that women desire men and sex.  It is generally presumed that spiritually healthy women have an even greater desire for men and sex.

Another major point of agreement is the not so astute observation that a positive, pleasurable feedback as a result of a choice is the beginning of an addiction. Once a woman has her first taste of cox, she is forever addickted to stuffing it in her cooch.  Secular RP proponents count on this feature of human nature and look for way to exploit it for their own pleasures, i.e. to get their own slice of the pie (or three), whereas the Christian RP examines methods to contain this feature within marriage, where it can yield a strong marriage, holiness, sanctification, life and peace, as opposed to the many consequences of sexual sin.

As you can imagine, the assessment of the current Socio-Sexual/Marriage Marketplace is vastly different between the secular RP and the Christian RP.  The secular RP regards the present state of affairs to be “the best time in history to be a player”.  The Christian RP sees the present state as a Marriage Market failure.

George Gross CRIME ON MY HANDS Pulp Digest Cover Art, in Johnny C.'s  Vintage Paperback Paintings Comic Art Gallery Room

What is the Black Pill?

The Black Pill is a metaphorical term often used to describe a set of beliefs often linked to nihilism, fatalism and defeatism. Online, the “black pill” is commonly associated with incels and 4chan users described referred to as “doomers”. While the Red Pill is often used in the context of men’s rights or right-wing politics, the black pill is typically used in more general existential contexts. [1]

The origin of the term Black Pill and the concept behind it, was apparently spawned from this comment from Paragon at Dalrock’s. [1]

If your alternative is the MRA, the MRA movement has ZERO applications for relationships with women.

We need to talk about taking the ‘black pill’, meaning to reconcile that there are no personal solutions to systemic problems – which can only resolve over evolutionary time.

And any solution will very much entail steep trade-offs, in that males can’t have their cake and eat it too – a prosperous population of deferred ecological pressures (like we currently enjoy), without an expectation that this prosperity will increase the mating latitude of females (dramatically perturbing the breeding population, to the point of near evolutionary instability).

One will always follow the other, as male consensus on these matters is practically impossible in terms of inter-sexual competition (as opposed to the broad accord females enjoy through an abundant wealth of sexual opportunities, courtesy of their reproductively limiting function).

Carnival Of Passion #115 1940's-Val Munroe-George Gross spicy cover-G/VG at  Amazon's Entertainment Collectibles Store

Fellow blogger Jim gives us the full flavor of the Black Pill.

What is the Black Pill?

The Black Pill is despair at the sad and cynical truths of the Red Pill, and the belief that we are doomed, that we as individuals shall not know a good sexual and family relationship, that we shall have few or no great grandchildren, that our race shall perish, that our homelands will be flooded by hostile angry sullen low IQ aliens who live on crime, welfare, and voting for the left, who get violent at microaggressions, that our civilization will die, overrun like Detroit and Salisbury by savages incapable of operating civilization.

Pessimistic is an understatement.

Here’s another way to conceptualize the Black Pill according to what we are now seeing in modern Western society.  All the efforts of Feminism, humanism, and postmodernism are aimed at relieving the Curse of Eve on women by dissipating the frustration throughout the larger society, and with devastating effect.  In other words, all of society, men, women, and children alike, are collectively sacrificing their lives and vitality in a vain humanistic effort to redeem wimmin from the Curse of Eve.  But sooner or later, people must wake up to the reality that only Christ can do that. - Tight Sweaters, Slit Skirts, Stiletto Heels
Note the haughty eyelids – a s1ut tell.

Case Study – The Black Pill Devours Many Men

A post at Opium Tales, My 2¢ on Black Pill Men (2020 October 11), poignantly describes the Black Pill as being the mindset of a dejected man who has been rejected from a gynocentric society.

“Now, everything [a Feminist] sees is the Patriarchy. Yes, the Patriarchy is the reason for every problem in the world, especially the bullshit her life has become.

Being heterosexual, she’s still attracted to men. But does she attract the best and the brightest?  Nope. Since she has a steady job, she attracts irresponsible male leeches.

Her current boyfriend owes her a lot of money. She complained about him a lot. And now says that all men are irresponsible. Imagine that.

What does this have to do with Black Pill men?


They’re the same thing. Except different sides of the coin.

That feminist chick?  Totally lacks self-awareness. It’s not her fault that her life is a mess. It’s everyone else’s. Now after taking that Women’s Studies course, she knows it’s the Patriarchy that causes all her problems.

Black Pill men are the same thing. Totally lack self-awareness.”

“They got screwed over. Their wife cheated on them and still got the better end of the deal in the divorce.

So guess what?

All women are like that.

Yeah, I don’t buy that for a second.

I’ve met wonderful women. I’ve met sћ!tty women. And I’ve met women somewhere in between.

I’ve always said that the most important thing for a man is to keep his frame.

Whereas there are no guarantees in life, you play the odds. If you keep your frame, your life would be so much better. Including your relationships with women.

The one who got away

If you’ve been in enough relationships, you’ll have your “the one who got away.”

Now, if you have self-awareness, you can judge what went wrong without your own biases tilted way in your favor.”

“Black Pill men lack this self-awareness. It’s the woman’s fault. Women are evil. Blah blah blah.

Like I said earlier, I’ve met wonderful women. I’ve met sћ!tty women. And I’ve met women somewhere in between.

The Black Pill man can’t see this. He only can blame. Just like that feminist.

And the only difference between the two? He’s got a c0ck and balls. She’s got a püssy.

Different sides of the same coin.

Both men and women attract “a type.” If you’re self-aware, you’ll notice patterns in your life.

Why do you attract this type?  Neither the feminist nor the black pill man will understand this.

Rather, the feminist will blame the patriarchy and the black pill man will blame all women. Because he can’t see that he attracts that type for a reason.

In sum, the Black Pilled man who attracts the wrong “type” is at a nadir regarding both his social status and his sanctification.  This is the time that a man must choose to embrace Christ.

In contrast, the spiritually astute man recognizes that the Blue Pill is a socio-psychological vehicle for men to sacrifice themselves for the Curse of Eve, and it is one which has received effective marketing over the last several decades. The challenge for the Christian man is to see that his personal sacrifices for gynocentric, Blue Pill ideals are not sufficient to redeem women, or even one woman, from the Curse of Eve.  Yet many men fall for the marketing ruse for various reasons, including the “Nice Guy” lie, and the transactional notion that if he plays ball within the established system, then he’ll get a clean roll in a cage (i.e. respect and regular püssy).  Nothing could be further from the truth.  If the Blue Pill cannot even redeem women, then it is an absolute cuckoldment for him to expect it to redeem his own personal longings for sexual expression.  This is a lie from Satan.

For those men who have already invested part of their lives into this endeavor, they must also overcome the temptation to succumb to the despair described by Opium Tales.  You see, Satan uses the Blue Pill conditioning like C!tibank uses your deposit – If you give them anything of value, they’ll hit you with a plethora of taxes, maintenance charges, and handling fees, and take an additional cut for good measure, before returning the rest, if anything at all.

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Christ transforms the Abyss into a Local Minimum

In his post, Incels (2018 June 4), Rollo Tomassi wrote,

There is no ‘Black Pill’

“I’ve heard Roosh and a few other commenters in the ‘sphere describe the “Black Pill” – the idea that the social order of the Blue Pill, the Feminine Imperative, or the ‘gynocracy’ if you like, is so rigged against men that they accept their role in it and give up on trying to make themselves or their circumstance better. What these guys are describing is what I’ve referred to in the past as the Abyss. This Abyss is the psychological / existential gulf a man needs to cross when he becomes Red Pill aware. He realizes that the person he carved himself out to be in a Blue Pill conditioned ideal was based on falsehoods. This stage of unplugging has difficulties unique to men at various stages of their lives and according to the decisions they made for themselves throughout their lives in accordance with those Blue Pill ideals. It’s one thing for a young man of 25 to unplug and turn his life around in a Red Pill aware paradigm, but it’s quite another for a man of 70 to become aware and look back on his life, marriage(s), family dysfunction and the long term impact his blindness to the Blue Pill game he was a part of for so long.”

Of note, I have described what Rollo calls the Abyss as a local minima (c.f. mathematics) and a perceived offence/defilement.  There is a noteable difference, because without the redemptive work of Christ, the surface drops off into negative infinity – an Abyss, as Rollo describes it. Christ has superposed an additional equation into the life of a believer that transforms this exponential divergence into a local minimum, thus allowing him to overcome and attain the global maximum.

Rollo continues,

“There is a necessary state of nihilism, or at the very least a prolonged doubt, that occurs when men realize that they’re cut away from that Blue Pill conditioned life. This is why I compare it to mourning in The Five Stages of Unplugging, men are literally mourning the loss of their investments in that paradigm; they’re morning the loss of Killing the Beta they used to be.”

In other words, after doing the monkey dance, they have to pay the piper.

“Understand this, there is no Black Pill – there is only the Abyss of accepting the truth that comes with Red Pill awareness and a man’s capacity to make this awareness work in his best interests.

Incels, if nothing else, want to find ways to make this awareness work for them, but most are too damaged to deal with the realities that Red Pill awareness reveals to them. They’re not ready for the truth, but it’s unavoidable today.”

Rollo offers an intimation that the Abyss may not have to be a singularity.  But what he fails to articulate is that a heart-felt faith in Christ is what makes the difference.

George Gross, in Ishan Trivedi's Sleazy Digests Comic Art Gallery Room

The Christian Red Pill Approach is an Uphill Climb

In The Five Stages of Unplugging, Rollo rounds off the list with a sixth addendum – being Jaded.  Thus, going through the Five Stages is only the beginning of the journey.  It only gets you off the perceived local maximum of the Blue Pill and on a path to the local minimum.  Once this is accomplished, a Christian man has the additional task of overcoming that local minimum and transcending his personal challenges and limitations in order to progress towards the global maximum of Headship.*

This is not, by any means, an easy task.  A previous post on Σ Frame, The Narrow Way (2020 June 8), examined a few perspectives about how the current Marriage Marketplace is as narrow as it gets.

“A lot of my writings here at Σ Frame try to identify what this other way might look like for a believer.  So far, I can say that it is difficult, complicated, and narrow indeed, seemingly impossible unless you have a bit of faith. But I can also say that embarking on the narrow way is determinant of one building character, developing charisma, and having a long journey of personal and spiritual growth.  Comfort and happiness, not so much, unless you stick with it until later in life.

Like it or not, this is the will of God for us as men — that we might obtain life everlasting.  […]  Christian men must stake out and pursue the narrow way, which is an arduous task non-Christian men will never hope to do.”

But is this so impossible that it warrants the description “Black Pill”?  Only if one denies the power of Christ.

* This all assumes that God has called the specific man to marriage, as opposed to a life of celibacy.  There are no other options which lead to redemption and the lasting glory of God.  If both of these two options (i.e. Headship vs. Celibacy) seem too opprobrious for one to accept, then the default alternative is the Abyss, either in this life (for incels), or the life to come (for Chads).

George Gross Cover Art

Concluding Statements

There is a common impression that the “rules” of the Christian faith (i.e. the restriction against fornication) obviate the possibility of success in the socio-sexual/marriage marketplace.  But this is only true within the secular RP paradigm which carries the goal of becoming a Chadwick who can iterate sexual conquests.  And yes, the Abyss of the Black Pill awaits those men who cannot compete within this framework, but the Abyss of eternal ћә11 awaits those who can and do.  In other words, this interpretation of the Christian RP is one that does not recognize the power of Christ.

The Christian RP replaces this goal with one of achieving Headship within marriage, which honors and glorifies God, and provides a home atmosphere characterized by the peaceful presence of God.  This can only be achieved by trusting in Christ and going through the local minimum.


  1. Know Your Meme: Black Pill


Rollo, at The Rational Male, offers a great selection of reading fodder about Unplugging (Category).

For those readers who are interested in a nihilistic expression of the Black Pill in the context of politics, I invite you to slog through these posts.

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Charisma, Churchianity, Confidence, Courtship and Marriage, Culture Wars, Determination, Discerning Lies and Deception, Discernment, Wisdom, Enduring Suffering, Fundamental Frame, Glory, Handling Rejection, Headship and Patriarchy, Holding Frame, Introspection, Maturity, Personal Growth and Development, Models of Failure, Organization and Structure, Perseverance, Power, Relationships, Sanctification & Defilement, Self-Concept, Strategy, The Power of God. Bookmark the permalink.

28 Responses to Is the Christian Red Pill a Black Pill?

  1. Sharkly says:

    Feminism or cunt-worship is the religion or spirit of this age. And both blue-pilled churchians and secular suckers believe in it. When through bitchy circumstances members of both groups are forced to rethink their wasted devotion to women, the churchian has the Bible to fall back on whereas the secular sucker is left without a meaningful religion, at meaningless secular atheism.
    Solomon said: Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity. … Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    The Christian is left disillusioned, yet he still believes he is in a just world, and that the morality of his actions matter. He is getting cheated, but he has a firm hope that things will be made right. Whereas the secular man upon finding himself without his goddess is prone to atheism and the thought that nothing even matters, that his life is both brief and meaningless, and that his own goals have slipped away, torn from his grasp, and there will be no reckoning, there will be no justice and mercy for him. Life’s a bitch and then you die. At the basis of atheistic thinking, there can be no legitimate meaning in an unwatched world that is only a random sequence of accidents with no justice and no legitimate morality.

    Both types of men previously had their “meaningful” system of religion based on cunt-worship, until that fateful day when they got red-pilled and that Feminist spirit of illusion blew away like a queef in Kansas. The Christian is left clinging to his Bible with its Father & Son justice and mercy and their coming glorious holy patriarchal Kingdom, but the secular sucker is left realizing “all is vanity” and yet he can see no duty, no promised reckoning, all his meaning just vaporized like a nasty queef!

    Liked by 2 people

  2. lastmod says:

    People who are not “black pill” telling “black pilled” men what it is.

    Black Pill had nothing to do with women. It was many red pilled men….actually a lot…….who could not, and would not be allowed to bask in the greatness of other “red pilled men”

    What other choice was there?

    Black Pill is a cold reality that many men have to face, especially if they missed out on life, and they are over forty. Black Pill prevents the self destruction of drink, drugs, and other societal problems that can and will destroy them when they “awaken” to the fact that

    *They are just ugly
    *They are not going to become an “amazing provider” at this point in their lives
    *They have little or no status because they are not like most red-pilled men who “met cute” at age 11 or whatever
    *They finally understood they cannot be someone they are not by just exuding “confidence”

    If a man is pushed and corned enough, told that he is nothing, he’ll come back and say “he’s everything” and Black Pill understands that this is not the case

    Black Pill knows reality that there are winners and losers in life.

    Black Pill knows that a man should focus and grow the potentials he does have.

    Black Pill is against suicide, incel-rages, and Elliot Roger behaviors / actions

    Black Pill is deeply personal………it may hit a man when he is indeed desperate, and red pill just says “learn game” or “you’re just not trying hard enough” and “looks don’t matter to women” and “just trust in Jesus”

    Black Pill has prevented and ends further damage to men.

    Black Pill could be called indifference….could be a resignation to just “get on the best you can” at this point. It could be many things that I have not even listed

    Black Pill is a REACTION to Red Pill.

    Again, “Saint Rollo” who never contemplated his own life. Never had to worry about attracting women, or bedding them, or worrying about his wife “upsuring his authority” is telling men what “black pill” is.

    Black Pill as a mindset is growing partly because those who are “red pill” still equate manhood ONLY with: Sex with women. Attracting them. Bedding them. Bragging about how man, and how often, and tying / binding manhood to the sex act

    Liked by 3 people

  3. lastmod says:

    Rollo States from 2018

    “Incels, if nothing else, want to find ways to make this awareness work for them, but most are too damaged to deal with the realities that Red Pill awareness reveals to them. They’re not ready for the truth, but it’s unavoidable today.”

    Incorrect. Most Incels that actually have tried on many levels to improve themselves, and have improved themselves with little or no help from the likes of men like Rollo are very aware of the truth.

    The “truth” is, a man at 35, 40, 29, or 19 who is born ugly ISN’T getting anywhere with women via confidence, mens conferences, books, podcasts or tools. He needs to understand this. Accept it. It’s a reality that most red pilled men NEVER did and will NEVER have to face.

    It’s easy for a Rollo, a Rich Cooper, a Roosh, an Aaron Clarey et al to just tell men to get confidence when they themselves never caused women revulsion to their respected appearances. It is another world where most men today are deemed “well below average” by women, and have had this label on them since puberty…….

    That is a BRUTAL truth many incels have faced. The incels who sit in “incel” forums are no better than the MGTOWs who have “gone their own way” as men, but talk about women the whole time in their forums. Incels who have accepted this TRUTH that there are indeed winners and losers in society and have decided to get on in life with other skills and hobbies, and attributes to endure adn succeed in life (Red pil only considers sex / attention from women victories in life) Incels have to endure the area where they were dealt a losing hand with zero choice by them mind you….. do indeed get by and hang on.

    Black Pill in this sense is a reality.

    The ironic truth of red pill (if there is one) is that “red pill is truth when a man has something to begin with”

    If you got nothing, well… pill is just another thing to the incel that they “failed at”

    When Rollo sits with and convinces an ugly man who is 42, a virgin, stuck in life to ‘not kill himself’ he can have a “tad” more cred about what an incel goes through. Until then, I suggesst he stick to the things he knows.


    • Lexet Blog says:

      Cognitive dissonance on their behalf. They talk about Pareto distribution and curse of the high IQ, and then act as if everyone who comes across their content can achieve success and is super smart.

      They spend too much time on a group that isn’t a part of their audience. I’m guessing it gives them hate-watchers and the conflict creates views and revenue.

      If their arguments against incels are correct, then arguments about Pareto distribution with female-male attraction is incorrect.

      However: a point Rollo has been making is that many in the incel community are just lazy complainers. He argues if they really want to get laid, they can fly to Vegas and buy “it” legally.
      [Editor’s Note: These views are Rollo’s. This site does not endorse prostitution.]


      • lastmod says:

        Lol the “curse of the high iq” that’s a hot one. For a bunch of men with such high “iq” and “leadership” and “game” and using big words they sure are having a terrible time trying to convince a vast swath of men.

        I spent some time in incel chats and forms about a decade ago. Many are interesting. Many do have a life. Many do actually “shower” and are not covered in cheeto dust, and I have not met one who goes to “Star Trek conventions”

        With that said, it gets boring after a month of the same thing over and over again. The incels that have accepred for lack of a better term……”the black pill”… does indeed get better for many of them. It’s kind of like that serentiy prayer thing I learned in AA and NA.

        Life goes on…….even if you think its not fair, or you were dealt a bad hand in the looks department (and a man who isn’t ugly will NEVER understand) and Black Pill does give a cold bitter, evil dose of “well…..what’s next?”

        For many, it is an acceptance of sorts. The Black Pill has helped many cope, deal…and just move on. For some, its cursing “past lives” or “wishing” it was different……but I will conceed about many incels…………

        Even if they were good looking, or better with women….many would still be miserable because they would still be upset that some other guy still had a girlfriend or FB that was better looking than theirs. I have seen this attitude in these forums. They would still blame something else for why they were not getting something better.

        Remember the “Player Haters Ball” with Chappelle? Yeah…….a sketch like this could be made about incels. Language warning.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Scott says:

        Those guys on the Red Man Group or Rule Zero or whatever have no incentive to talk about distributions and what they really mean because they will never make money that way. So they call guys like me “black pill” which translated means “he thinks you are loser and no ideas for how to help.

        Of course, “help” means “get laid by multiple chicks from now until you are a 70 year old pick up artist.”

        But their product is not much different. then what they label black pill Watch a couple hours of it and see. I mean, I kind of get it. I don’t talk like they do because I already have job.

        Essentially they have to sell their thing like a carrot on a stick.

        “Here’s al the stuff you need.”
        “I tried that and it didn’t work.”
        “You didn’t do it right/you have not internalized game”

        –> buy more books, pay 300$ to come to this retreat–>get a super special membership so your chats will be first! (On these videos where we keep telling you are a loser and you don’t even know it)

        Liked by 4 people

      • Lexet Blog says:

        Yep. They are good for some basic information, but other than bringing guys up to speed after they become red pill, the paid content creators try to keep their audience to keep $$ flowing.

        They keep money flowing not by encouraging men to actually become better, but by slow feeding them “game” advice. It’s watered down pickup artistry.

        however rollo and some other guys have pointed out that there’s a massive influx of “black pilled” kids who are jaded without the personal experience that makes a person jaded. These types blame everyone else and don’t even try.

        It’s my understanding that a lot of their recent criticism of the black pill is actually a criticism of young guys claiming to be black pilled when in reality they are just lazy and fearful of rejection.

        I don’t interact with people under the age of 25 so I have no idea if their take on the youth is accurate.


  4. Thanks for the pingback! I saw I was getting some traffic from this site so I headed on over.

    Fascinating read about the problem Christians have. I guess I was lucky. I didn’t convert until long after I was married. So I was pretty much traditional RP (long before the term was invented as I’m Gen X) and a player.

    I see the Halo effect & the Exclusion effect as being the most challenging. Good luck finding a virgin. I know they’re out there, but not common. Once a woman had a good f-ing, it’s hard for her to wait until marriage.

    Plus it’s true that women love bad boys. I’d often use my band’s flyers as the pickup line.


    Liked by 1 person

  5. thedeti says:

    I trace “Black Pill” further back than Dalrock. My first sight of it was at a proto-incel blog called OmegaVirginRevolt, where he encouraged men to “take the Black Pill” – that looks are paramount, that “game” was a waste of time, and that there were a certain number of men who were relegated to the sexual fourth string. Omega later renounced that position and exhorted people to “give up the pills”, but the Black Pill concept stuck in the manosphere as “looks are all that matter, most men are doomed to lives of grinding involuntary celibacy, life sucks and it will always suck, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it”.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Scott says:

      I say

      “If the girl is not crazy about you from the first second then you should next her and move on” and I am “black pill” according to the YouTubers brigade and rollo.


  6. lastmod says:

    I first heard Face and LMS mention the “black pill” back in 2010 I believe.

    Like MGTOW……when I hear a younger man (twenties, early thirties) talk about “done” and being “jaded” and going MGTOW or on the Black Pill sites I frequent……….it usually is just hurt feelings over a rejection….that first serious “break up” with a girl that can cause them to dive right into MGTOW or Black Pill thinking.

    I usually ignore them, or just mention “you’ll be okay” and many of them are. They get over it, or they move on…or find a gal “that isn’t like the others” and then have the gall to lecture a man like me to “she’s out there, you just have to keep trying…you guys are lazy and defeatist!”

    As if……..”do you recall your statements last month on this forum…..:-)”

    Black Pill at times is the only thing that can help a man after all options are pretty much done. I am not advocating a 22 year old guy go this route….or even a 30 year old…..

    But…there comes a time when…indeed……it can be the only option that prevents a man for indeed ending it, or giving up into an oblivion of failed work, failed adulthood and dying of athelosclosis in his forties.

    For those who have taken it……usually, I have seen improvement. Not in their dating lives (that was over…or never began for them) but a “putting to rest” state of mind, and he isn’t alone. It can be very helpful…….it was for me. No, didn’t fix or solve everything, but yes….at least I knew moorings were cut, and it was useless to be stuck on this false hope of meeting a special someone.


  7. lastmod says:

    As for Rollo…..never was a fan of his…..well, like Dalrock….some of what he purports I support. It’s his psychophant followers in his forum I have a problem with 🙂


  8. From my secular perspective, it looks like a failure of game theory in the absence of social control. Men and women fall into a defect-defect pattern (as noted by Jim) and those few who still cooperate, lose. Especially when there’s a sex imbalance, as you point out.
    I respect your view that Christian men should try to walk the line despite the odds. However, I wonder if there could also be a role for re-establising pro-family cultural norms. There are small groups within the West – Amish, Orthodox Jews, assorted cults – that manage to do this.
    Or, if women and feminized men are so susceptible to media brainwashing, perhaps that avenue could be hacked to push them in another direction.


  9. Scott says:

    However, I wonder if there could also be a role for re-establising pro-family cultural norms.

    This is what the entire Christian red-pill hopes and dreams for in their wildest fantasies. And the reasons it doesn’t happen are as numerous and complicated as the ocean is wide.

    I tried to hone a workable list of what this might look like. I attempted to include as many different denominational/traditional world views and I got precisely zero other manospherians, (who lament the lack such communities) to consider a very mild courtship proposition wherein children brought up in like minded homes could at least be exposed to each other. No guarantees, no arranged marriages. Simple, wholesome introductions into a newly minted subculture with no weirdos, no purity rings, no perverts, just people who think family formation would be more likely under certain conditions.

    Hence another “black pill” consensus wherein the one thing everyone agrees on is that this rei-establishing of bygone social norms (like knowing and really being involved in the lives of the people your kids marry) aint going to happen.


  10. Scott says:

    To follow up on this idea-
    All over the Christian manospphere (and most of those blogs are still up, with comments goin back at least a decade and a half) was a weeping and gnashing of teeth, low level grumbling about what a culture that reinforces marriage and family formation would look like.

    Everyone agree(d) that this remnant would have to rise from the ashes of the demolished culture and accomplish what Dalrock once called “saving the seeds of civilization while the fire rushes over the forest.”

    But this nucleus, this hidden, silent group never materialized and those seeds are (maybe) being saved in individual families (like Elspeths?) and without interconnectedness and multiplying will be consumed by the fire as sure as I sit here today.

    What good is it for me to read ancient texts and share ancient wisdom (“things we have heard and known”–the name of Cane Caldos blog) to 5 year olds in my house when no one within 1000 miles is doing the same? We’re all going to be a bunch of Yodas practicing a dead religion on a jungle island in one generation. But Luke will not be visiting to learn the ways of Christ and go slaughter the Cathedral.

    So what should you do? Go to an American Heritage Girls troop? Join an Amish community? OK. The internet and our super cool jobs and gadgets are just too fun.

    Richard Grannon (I will be critiquing a really interesting video he did recently) made this comment almost flippantly “who has a value system that remains useful over multiple contexts” and that really struck me. I mean who, really? I am like a chameleon in my public life. My true beliefs would get me shunned from the company of even those who call themselves “conservatives.”

    So sure–have about a bazillion dollars and want to buy a nature preserve like in the movie “The Village” and bring all your friends to start a commune? That’s about it as far as I can tell.

    Liked by 1 person

    • cobaltsheath says:

      I’ve made one or two similar comments here before, in this vein. RP practitioners in particular tend to overstate the alpha male’s external effects: if you “just act more alpha,” then the people under your influence-which is everyone you come across, naturally-will automatically subsume their beliefs under yours. Experience and recorded history doesn’t bear that out…rebellion has always been a problem.

      Being “alpha” by yourself is not enough for that change to happen in a most circumstances. We’re stuck with our genes and our ailments, most of us are not independently wealthy and don’t want to blow up our families or marriages for the sake of maintaining alpha status. Most of us, barring what we have online and maybe some in real life–there are maybe 2 people I communicate with that understand, both in different parts of the world than me–are essentially alone in this.


  11. lastmod says:

    While I was at the Volkswagen dealer here in Fresno last night getting the racks I pruchaed properly installed on my Jetta (I could have done it myself…..but I didn’t want to void the warrenty on the car by doing this myself). A couple was waiting for their SUV to get some ervice done. They were talking “bible” and I listened. They were speaking about Daniel and being in exile with his people in Babylon. Yes, the usual “devotion to God” he had………and being wise……and his faith in the face of this evil empire…….

    What wasn’t discussed. Sure, he was in exile and was an exceptional man……touched by God? Chosen by God? Who really knows……but he was in exile in Babylon, but no mention of the ten of thousands of fellow Hebrews who probably perished during the journey to Babylon. The countless women probably put into forced prositution / harems. The suffering of uncountable Hebrews who died of sickness, perhaps starvation, and forced labor in Babylon……

    We hear of the victory….we know the story……we don’t talk about how exceptional he really was. We hear “If we just had his faith in God….we are just like him”

    Highly educated, highly devout, highly exceptional and his persona was one that could endure this.

    How many in churches across the nation would endure, or have “that faith” if one fine Sunday, people came in……took the whole church and shipped them away. Away from their jobs, their gadgets, their birthday parties, their bible studies………..their church who “isn’t like other churches and is devout only to what Jesus wants”

    The childlike talk this couple was having didn’t make me sick…..but it did show excatly why there really hasn’t been some “blood and fire” revival in the faith since the times of Victorian England

    Liked by 1 person

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  21. The Shaolin says:

    Concerning the topic of the essay, I’ll add that the best a Christian man can be at this point is Kierkegaard’s Knight of Faith: acknowledge the impossibility (or improbability) of achieving your desired ends with respect to relationships, but continue to believe and act in line with those ends. This is much like Abraham did when asked to sacrifice Isaac, or Moses’ parents did when they heard Pharaoh’s edict.

    However I must add that you (like many other red pill thinkers) failed to resolve any issues surrounding the black pill. Not only did you quote Opium Tales and endorse his mischaracterization of men who have taken the black pill as the loser equivalents of feminists (invoking the fallacy of appealing to moderation in the process), you also couldn’t provide an answer that wasn’t shrouded in Christianese.

    It is imperative to address the ideas that are typical of black pill thinking rather than ridicule black pill men. There are enough women and “Only Real Men in the Room” for that. On a secular level, this would require convincing these men that they could become more attractive to women by some means or the other. For Christians, the best you could do would be to encourage men to separate truth from emotion (as I once saw Anonymous Reader do at Dalrock’s). Men will have a hard time with relationships regardless of how seriously they take their Christianity. What is important is for the man to realize that the truths he reads off a screen should not affect his emotions. It should not move him except to think (and never to feel). This is what makes him a man: his stoicism and ability to handle abstractions.


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