Now Christian men must be members of the noble class to do the housework.
Readership: All;
Over the weekend, there was a hot discussion over at reddit/RPChristians. Formaggiofritto wrote this screed which has attracted more than a hundred comments so far.
As men, you need to do better
I was raised in a very traditional Christian family with traditional Christian values. Honestly, I would consider myself to be a catch. I am eager to one day fulfill my role as a Godly, submissive wife. I’m an excellent cook, I enjoy cleaning, I love children and have a lot of experience working with them, and I would consider myself to be fairly attractive. I don’t wear a ton of makeup, but I have waist length blonde hair, green eyes, am well proportioned, and given the amount of male attention I receive, I would deduce that I am an attractive woman.
However, the likelihood of attracting a traditional man is very slim. So I am also highly educated. I speak three languages, and have a master’s degree in chemical engineering. My grandpa was a car mechanic so he also taught me to do all my car maintenance (within reason, like oil changes, tire rotations, changing brake pads, etc.). I have no debt, make a lot of money, and when it comes to living my life, I don’t exactly “need” a man to survive. I however, would very much like to be married to a good leader and fulfill my role as a submissive wife one day.
Traditional men are honestly a disappointment. They want the perks of having a submissive wife who does the housework and cooking, but they also want the perks of a working wife. Every man I have dated expected me to continue working after having children, as I have made more money than every man I have dated. However, they balked at the idea of sharing housework. Why is it expected I will work 40+ hours a week while doing full childcare and housework? A stay at home mom is a full time job, and that has been a deal breaker in every relationship I have been in.
While I would dearly love to be a stay at home mom one day, I can accept if it is not possible. I also enjoy my work immensely. But I’m really starting to get sick of traditional men. What ever happened to paying for dates, planning dates, wooing me, opening doors, buying me flowers, standing when I enter a room, asking my father for permission, etc.? I feel like traditional values that men hold are now completely one sided and I am extremely disappointed. They want a traditional and submissive woman, but they don’t hold up their end of the bargain. Do better please.
By jove, she’s a unicorn!
Every man is looking for a unicorn, but being a self-professing unicorn is not enough to get into marriage. To be qualified for marriage, both the man and the woman must build a relationship that glorifies Christ, not just one that glorifies the woman.
Jack’s Commentary
In the comments, she added a few more statements which are appended below with my own comments.
“What ever happened to paying for dates, planning dates, wooing me, opening doors, buying me flowers, standing when I enter a room, asking my father for permission, etc.?”
“I want a man to open my door, stand when I enter, and treat me with respect if he expects me to be submissive.”
She doesn’t know what submissive means. She’s basically saying, “Because you are my puppet husband, lord and master, I henceforth command you to be attentive to my wishes! Plan a romantic date! Open this door so that I may make a noble entrance! Buy me flowers! Do the housework! Of course, you shall also pay the costs of all these luxuries, and you shall be thankful that I have chosen you for this honor.”
I’m a little confused about what she really means here. Does she expect to be formally courted (19th century style) by a sophisticated man who is kind, courteous, and has the refined mannerisms of an English earl? Or does she want a Chivalrous soyboy who eagerly jumps through all her $ћ!t Test hoops at her beck and call, and who bends over forward on his knees to fulfill her every whimsical phantasm in the vain hope of yearning sex? She probably won’t find the former (because western culture no longer does the courtship thing), and she would never be satisfied with the latter.
Women have been spoiled by Chivalry just as much as men have.
“…what would you consider to be a meaningful accomplishment?”
The answer to this question is so simple, yet women consistently fail (or refuse) to get it right.
A real virgin (capable of achieving marital sanctification), under 25, long hair, slim and fit, good health, fertile, trusting, kind hearted, humble, submissive, respectful, God fearing, has a good relationship with her father, and no tattoos or weird piercings.
…and here’s the shocker, ladies… there is absolutely nothing else that matters at all!
“It’s like men cherry pick how things should be, they want the submissive wife, but they also want her to work and clean and cook. That’s a ridiculous expectation.”
Again, she doesn’t know what submissive means. A woman who willingly does the housework, and does it joyfully is a submissive wife. But on the whole, maybe she’s right. These days, expecting a woman to be joyful in doing menial service is ridiculous.
“I’m a little bitter perhaps, but it’s after a string of boyfriends who were basically expecting a housekeeper and nanny who would have sex with them and contribute financially.”
Women get an ego kick out of feigning indignant surprise, but there is no surprise here. As I said earlier, sex is the crux of marriage, so you should expect that married men will want lots of sex from their wives.
Moreover, men will never commit to marriage unless it is an obvious benefit to them, especially in this age of easy no-fault divorce. If a man marries a woman, then he’ll expect her to make his life easier, not harder. That’s what it means to be a “helper”, as the Bible states of wives. Helpers can choose whom to help, but they can’t make demands. If she thinks she is entitled to make her own demands, then she is not being submissive. She is assuming a man’s role, and has thereby disqualified herself from being a man’s helper.
“[The men I’ve dated] balked at the idea of sharing housework. Why is it expected I will work 40+ hours a week while doing full childcare and housework?”
These are your own expectations, not men’s. Aside from an extenuating circumstance, traditional men do not expect their wife to hold down a full-time job outside the home.
In general, men do not care about housework. They would prefer to live in a dusty warehouse filled with tools, machines, old cars, motorcycles, and other cool stuff, sweep the floor with a leaf blower, and take the trash out once a week. It is women who want a living environment reminiscent of Better Homes and Gardens. A man might be happy to do the mortgage payments, remodeling, and maintenance on such a home, but it will be up to the woman to make it as clean as she pleases.
About child care? ROFL! Please! It’s true that a father’s influence is extremely important, but have you ever seen the movie, Three Men and a Baby?
Concluding Statements
From what I can see, she made a big mistake when she chose to spend 6+ years pursuing a master’s degree instead of shopping for a husband. A post graduate education is for those women who are unfit for marriage and are forced to support themselves. Maybe she thought earning an advanced degree would put her in the proximity of professional men, and this might have helped her land a better husband, but it also put her into a much higher bracket of competition. How many tall, handsome, single, Christian men with Ph.D.s does she think there are in the world? And how many women are competing for those few men? And if she did find such a man, then why should he be so eager to offer her (and only her) his lifetime commitment in marriage?
Now if a woman’s goal is only to have sex with lots of professional men, then pursuing higher education is definitely the right choice! But marriage? …meh.
She is proud of her “achievements”, such as her education and handy man skills, but she doesn’t realize that men think nothing of those things, and everything about the things I listed above. A master’s degree in STEM probably means she is in her late 20s, and I find it hard to believe that she retained her virginity over all that time. But virgin or not, she already missed the boat. The shadow of the dreaded Wall now loometh, henceforth the frustrations expressed in her post. As some commenters at RPChristians have said, her only hope is in prayer and the grace of God.
Ladies, you cannot fight against nature. Marriage is primarily for procreation (e.g. sex and having children), and women only have about 15 years for childbearing. Marriage minded men want a woman’s youth and fertility more than anything else. If you really must have it all, a husband, children and a post graduate education and a professional career, then you need to do the husband and children thing first while you are young. When your husband’s career has gained momentum, and the children reach an age of independence, then you can pursue your own interests — education and career if that’s what you really want. The good news is that your career doesn’t care how old you are.
As an afterthought (which should have been your first consideration), you might want to consider what might be God’s will for your life. Oh yeah, that! Gee, how silly of you to forget God.
She is like a Christian version of Tomi Lahren, sans carousel and pro-abortion stance. Something tells me that we’re going to see a lot more women like these spill out of the SMP pipeline in the next few years. Generation Z will identify themselves as generational cohorts by their shared memories of Karen’s, Katie’s, and Tomi’s during their childhood.
Wait, I can think of one solution. Let’s just take Formaggiofritto’s word at face value. If we could somehow reignite 19th century Victorian courtship, where all Christian men were chivalrous noblemen, landed, born and bred, preferably with a STEM Ph.D., and who have a butler or maid to help with the housework, then this generation of trad thots could optimize both their careers and their hypergamous instincts. So from this perspective, she’s right. Men need to do better!
Nice try, but Meghan Markle has already shown that not just anyone can be elite.
Related
- Red Pill Dad: Tomi Lahren, ladies…welcome to the #metoo of hypergamy. (2020 August 10)
- Mogadishu Matt: Tomi Lahren Posting and Video Roundup (2020 August 12)
- Didact’s Reach: Tradthot is Thot (2020 August 19)
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She said “she had a string of boyfriends … who wanted someone to cook, clean, have sex with, and contribute $$$.” Yea she a ho
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It’s a certainty she isn’t a virgin, given how she has described having boyfriends (not guys she was merely dating) who expected her to clean and cook and have sex — I agree with Lexet. That gets back to my comment on the earlier post about how the life script which has become ubiquitous even among Christian conservatives basically ensures fornication as well, but that’s only a sidelight in the context of this post.
In terms of the rest of it …
When your husband’s career has gained momentum, and the children reach an age of independence, then you can pursue your own interests — education and career if that’s what you really want. The good news is that your career doesn’t care how old you are.
In theory, yes, but in practice not really. It is genuinely difficult to enter a field in your 40s. This is where this age would be given a woman marrying in her early 20s and having 3-5 kids and raising them all to independence, which we can assume is sometime around middle school or so … if she marries at 23, kid 5 is likely being born around 30 at the earliest, and more likely around 33-34 given the preferred spacing even in larger family sets, even if she has 3 kids every 2 years or so she is looking at the last birth being at 29 and the last kid entering middle school when she is right around 40 … and if she marries later than 23, or has more kids than 3, that age gets pushed out to around 45+. I have seen women do it, but relatively few do, because the prospect of starting out at the bottom rung in a field, competing with single people in their 20s who are 20+ years younger than you and have no other life distractions, isn’t very appealing. So very few women do it. And younger women know this, because they observe it, so they also don’t plan to go that route. Most of the women who do go that route make the decision later in life, not as a part of a master plan from when they were 21.
It really is a choice of A or B in terms of life script. I have worked around professional women my entire life, lots of them (my last workplace was almost entirely professional-degree level professional women). Almost all were married, and those generally had around 2 kids, sometimes, but rarely, 3. Not a single one of them was a Christian, however, in any meaningful sense. The only woman on that level that I have worked closely with who was a clearly committed Christian actually never married … which isn’t terribly surprising, given what Christian men see, because the standards tend to get very high, almost impossibly high, for women who are serious Christians and who also are seriously high-powered professionally. Essentially the only men who are worthy of their submission are master of the universe type men (i.e., more powerful than these women are, which hypergamy requires, Christian or not), and these men are often already married to other women who may be smart and educated but did not choose the high powered professional career option, but married younger and earlier to men who were somewhat older and more established (not 10+, but 4-6 years older often in what I have personally seen) rather than pursue grad school and start high powered grad degree track professional careers which make so much money that they become impossible to give up (due to the “golden handcuffs” effect that money has on pretty much everyone).
When a woman like this chooses the grad school and professional career script, she is basically done from the perspective of traditional marriage, barring outlier situations and the rare case of people turning their lives around on a dime (that happens, but it’s very rare). She isn’t done from the perspective of marriage — like I say, most of the women I have seen in this category do marry, but they are not generally Christian (or if they are, are very nominal), have small families, openly egalitarian marriages and so on. So married but not “traditional marriages”. And honestly I have known only very few women in traditional marriages opt to “go back” into a career in their 40s after the kids have grown enough to permit that … mostly they turn their energies to church work, or other kinds of community volunteering type work, which can be done on their schedules and isn’t subject to a rat-race of competition like other work, which pits them against other entry-level professionals who are almost all single minded people in their 20s.
For this specific woman, either she opts for a non-traditional, contemporary professional marriage (i.e., an egalitarian marriage between 2 highly educated urban/suburban professionals with 1-3 kids), or she is running a high risk of being single for a long time (look at Wendy Griffith) or perhaps, like my former colleague, forever.
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@ Novaseeker,
Your comment describes the nitty gritty in exquisite detail. Thank you for the breakdown.
It’s true, life is short, and women must decide what will become a priority in their lives, and what will ultimately determine their identity — either as a loving wife and mother, or as a professional careerist. It’s extremely difficult to do both, as you described, and doing both means that she won’t do either one very well. I described this conundrum in an earlier post, The Feminine Dilemma (2018-10-27), but I think it would serve readers well if I discussed this topic more frequently and in greater detail.
She thinks of herself as being traditional, but getting a post graduate education is quite a few steps away from the traditional role of women. She needs to face the fact that she has not, in fact, chosen a traditional lifestyle for a woman, and recalibrate her expectations accordingly.
I know this post seems harsh, but actually, I feel so sorry for her. There are way too many women who have bought into the vogue lies of feminist culture which tells young women that they can do it all, and have it all, only to be sorely disappointed about many things later in life.
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How dare you! She is the daughter of the Most High King!
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rolls eyes……..
What man today, or since the 1980’s in fact have a housewife that stays home, and has a husband that provides that “upper-middle-class” lifestyle? Unless the man is an airline pilot, established in the STEM field at a company with “dues paid” time and making a good living by forty.
You men are the ones who want it both ways. You guys make it sound like your wife asks permission to use the bathroom. And yet, even if you have a wife that is stay home…….most are doing “wrong” or poorly according to you.
This is fantasy and selling it men as if THEy can have it all in a wife is just as funny.
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Giving her the benefit of the doubt on her virginity, I still think she sounds quite demanding, like she would be “High Maintenance”. Even though I probably could have met her outrageous expectations, back in my day, I’d much rather have settled for a wife with lower expectations, who would be that much happier and easier to please. Men don’t always feel a need to marry up, or even laterally. LOL And in my mind, a man like myself really couldn’t have. Women just aren’t comparable to men who are the image and glory of God, while women are just the glory of men.(1 Corinthians 11:7) Men, like Christ, stoop to take on brides who perpetually fall short.(Ephesians 5) Her comment, ‘I don’t exactly “need” a man to survive’ shows that she has a piss poor understanding of what a husband is for, and why women were created. Whoever married her would need to start by ridding her of her ungodly blind spot that she doesn’t need a man to rule over her and wash her with the word of God, to present her to himself without spot or wrinkle. It sounds like she actually wants to be a traditional “trophy wife”, but she spent her best years and best effort preparing to be a modern career woman instead. Now, she should be belatedly noticing that her plan was screwed up, except for she is a silly woman, and so she instead blames the men of today for her own colossal blunder that her “trophy wife” expectations and best opportunities have seemingly gotten traded away for an unwanted pile of spinster Feminist 9 to 5 male-career-mimicking.
I don’t believe her statement: “While I would dearly love to be a stay at home mom one day, I can accept if it is not possible. I also enjoy my work immensely.”
It sounds like she is frustrated, envious, and apprehensive, that other women her age have become traditional stay at home moms, while her window of opportunity for the family of top tier traditional Christian Alpha-male bred children that she wanted is quickly closing. She will probably have to compromise on the tall handsome traditional alpha-male Christian millionaire with a doctors degree, who is just dying to do all the dishes and laundry for her, if she wants to have kids any time soon. If that guy exists, it sounds like she had all the necessary attributes to land him, but she wanted to have it all, and blew her time preparing to have a six-figure career instead, just for the Feminist bragging rights.
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The false god of “human potential” has worked a great evil in the world. All we really should aspire for is to please our Creator.
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I bypassed nearly the whole article. She leads with sourness. This bleeds over into her real life. It is more than pricing herself out of the market. She can’t help herself and no one else can.
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I liked this comment:
You’re strong bent toward independence is unattractive. You enjoy your work immensely and have worked hard to man-proof your life in nearly every area. In an age where divorce rape is a common occurrence, your bent toward independence along with your low tolerance for deviation from your high demands (the demands themselves are reasonable imo) makes you a flight risk which is not only unattractive but could pose a heavy financial and legal toll in divorce.
Yep.
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@ KHH,
There are quite a few trenchant remarks under the OP at Reddit. This censure must have inflicted a sobering epiphany to the author because she has since deleted her post. However, the comments there, and my quotation of her post above, still remain for our continued perusal.
From time to time, we see frank sentiments like this spill out of women. It’s important to document such disclosures ASAP, because once the feedback loop gains resonance, the candid admission will be retracted and denied.
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I guess she didn’t get the responses she wanted. Maybe if she had linked of pic of herself in all her “I think I’m very attractive” glory.
Pics or it didn’t happen …
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@ KHH,
She did not post any pictures of herself. She is probably not anywhere near as attractive as she believes, or else she would be getting more male attention and would thus have a different perspective of men. I would not be surprised if she is overweight, because many overweight women now
consider themselves to be normal or “curvy”.
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There are quite a few trenchant remarks under the OP at Reddit. This censure must have inflicted a sobering epiphany to the author because she has since deleted her post.
“Honey, youz a 24-karat beeyotch, a real man repellant. Deh menz done had an election, and you lost to prostate cancer.”
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She might be a keeper once you grudge fuck the attitude out of her.
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@ SFC Ton,
Yes, extremely gratuitous sex can cause a woman to become more humble and compliant, and as such, it can be a very powerful bonding mechanism. I suspect this may be one reason why women refuse or withhold sex in marriage, because by doing so, they grow into needy waifs craving the affirmation of orgasm, and thereby lose the strength of will to dominate the relationship.
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Marriage is a battle to the death….. not sure if the winner dies 1st or out lives the enemy, but it’s a pretty fucked up institution.
Mostly because it shifts all the power to the woman and they are almost all petty tyrants waiting for their chance to rule the world.
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I was trying to understand what it is that this woman wants and I came to the conclusion that yours is the only approach that would have a good probability of success.
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LOL it also resets their cpu to bitch behave mode
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She is probably not anywhere near as attractive as she believes, or else she would be getting more male attention and would thus have a different perspective of men.
Or maybe she IS physically attractive, but has the personality of an alley cat, enough to send the signal to any self-respecting man that nothing but trouble that-a-way comes. Mature men encounter plenty of such women and quite sensibly give them the widest berth possible. As more than a few such men have put it, in one way or another: “I’d rather have a demure, submissive 6 than a contentious 10.”
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“I’d rather have a demure, submissive 6 than a contentious 10.”
A 6 is “cute” in my book, and “cute” passes the boner test so that’s good enough for me. A 6 who is also demure and submissive? Worth more than gold, and would suit my purpose for her just fine. Most men would get off “on that floor” and be happy about it.
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