If a lady can learn to respect the ‘outer man’, and love the ‘inner boy’ of the man in her life, she stands a good chance of keeping his heart indefinitely.
Readership: Pink Pilled Women in a heterosexual relationship
After one of my classes this past week, I had an insightful discussion with one of my students. I would describe her as very bright, but insipidly garrulous, annoyingly outspoken, and having some strong, underlying feminist sympathies which she is apparently unaware of. However, she is not an outspoken SJW type.
She told me about her boyfriend back in her home country, and that she is expecting to get married to him after she graduated with her M.B.A. She is 23, and he is 27, and he is already established in a fairly high-paying, white collar career.
Overall, she was happy and enthusiastic about getting married. She said her fiancée loved her very much, but she didn’t love him quite as much as he did. I told her that it’s not such a big deal if she isn’t crazy about him, but what is really important is that she truly and deeply respects him. I told her that if she respects him in an authentic manner, then her feelings of love will grow over time, and so will his for her.
I was happy that she was marrying young, instead of choosing the careerist shrike path in life, and I wanted to push her further in this direction, knowing that it would likely lead to her greater happiness. I decided not to touch on the obvious issue of her materialistic motivations in marrying him. I wanted her to listen to me, and take my words seriously. If I labeled her as a gold-digger, it would only offend her and push her away.
I asked her why she didn’t love him very much. She had one main complaint about her boyfriend. She said,
“Sometimes he acts so immature, like a little boy!”
She found this trait to be so ridiculous and annoying, and she talked at some length about how much trouble it is for her to deal with this trait, and the disappointment she feels as a consequence.
After she said this, I recognized that this is a complaint that most women commonly impute on men – that all men have a ‘stupid, selfish little boy’ hiding inside them. Women usually label this incorrectly as ‘immaturity’. It is a misnomer because they are not referring to genuine immaturity, in which a man refuses to get a job and take responsibility for his life, or when he avoids dealing with his problems and blames other people instead, etc. No, they are referring to the way females regard the emotional nature of fully mature men to be as idyllic boys.
Going back to the conversation I had with my student, I told her exactly how it is with men.
“Lena, all men have this ‘little boy’ inside them. It is not a mark of immaturity. It is an aspect of being human. It is not something he will ever ‘grow out of’, so to speak. He will always have that little boy inside of him, because that’s who he really is, in an emotional and spiritual sense. But men only reveal this side of themselves to those people they are closest to, the people they truly love and trust.”
“If your boyfriend is showing you his ‘little boy’, then that means he is being completely open and transparent with you. He is showing you every emotional nuance and need within his heart. For a man, this behavior is a form of emotional vulnerability that is rarely seen because it is a deviation from the male code of conduct. To do this, a man has to put away his social image of masculinity, and that makes it the ultimate act of trust in you. I don’t need to tell you that trust is the central and most important element of any kind of relationship.”
“My point here is this – if you ridicule or embarrass him for showing that ‘boyishness’, he will recoil in self-defense. And if you do that a number of times, then he will never love or trust you again.”
“So my advice to you is this – and I hope you will listen to me very carefully and take this to heart – if you choose to marry this man, then you need to love that inner boy, and respect that outer man. You must do both. If you can do this, you will have a very happy marriage. But if you do not do this, you will have a very miserable one. Please listen to me here, and never forget this.”
Now, I know her fiancée probably has his own Blue Pill problems with oneitis, pussy pedestalization, etc., and he probably has some blind white knighting going on as well. But I can’t make the decision for them to get married or not. All I can do is make them aware of what they’re getting into, and what will be required of them.
I do think she took my words to heart, so I just have to trust that this young couple will grow into their new roles as husband and wife, as men and women have done since the beginning. I also tend to believe that getting married, as risky as it may be, is probably a better choice than postponing marriage, or not marrying at all.
Related
- Sigma Frame: Question: Why Should a Woman Change Herself to “Get Along” with a Man?(October 6, 2009)
- All Things Bright And Beautiful: Don’t Ruin Your Husband’s Love Toward You By Failing to Support His Mission (April 9, 2018)
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Sound advice. I’d add that that boyishness is a love of life, that “spark” if you will.
I’d like to do a study of this issue – female complaining about boyishness, to test for “Disney fixation syndrome.”
My personal Facebook observations (which are 100% scientific), have revealed a direct correlation between women who complain about male immaturity, and obsession about Disney films.
We are all hypocrites at some level, but there is something there when the hypocrisy is blatant.
Is the criticism of others are what you hate in yourself?
Is there a lack of awareness in the critical person?
Are they narcissistic and only think positive things about themselves?
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Lexet, I’m interested in your observations/studies. If you’ve written a post on this, please paste a link here. If not, then email me if you want to compare notes. Thanx~!
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As per scientific studies, I was being sarcastic. My observations aren’t unique in any way. They stem from interaction with young adults in the church, commentary from churches, as well as observing Facebook interactions. Those I have observed are second or third generation Christians (this is important. I’ll try to explain below).
I haven’t written about them on my page, and probably wont- it’s just not something that falls in line with what I want to do with it. Also, I believe any points I would cover have been sufficiently covered already.
Here’s my brief commentary- I’m trying to keep it short due to typing it on a phone. All are encouraged to flesh it out and comment on it. I’m here for ideas.
As we know, there is a drastic reduction in the number of marriages not only in society, but in Christian subculture. A significant number of the blogs/ministries/church commentary take an approach that emphasizes the immaturity of young men. A biblical approach does require questioning and rebuking a man’s failure to lead.
However, any commentary questioning female maturity (outside reddit and WordPress) is an absolute anomaly, and is frowned upon.
Immaturity issues females need to be cognizant of:
-a man will solve your problems.
-you will grow up when you are married
-you don’t have an identity until you get married
-a mindset that the world is perfect, and what is hoped for is how the world operates (idealism)
-God owes you a husband (idolatry, legalism)
The list can continue, but I will stop here. Of course, this list isn’t exclusive and applies to men as well.
I have observed an obsession with Disney movies (princess culture) amongst numerous Christian young women. I don’t know if this is reflected on the secular side, but witnessing multiple expositions on Disney plots is one of the most sickening things I can observe.
Yet these same women will flip on a dime and criticize men who watch cartoons, anime, play video games, debate Star Wars/comics, etc. I find this interesting. They expect and demand that a man their age will have abandoned the childish things they do, despite being of similar age, and of similar life experience. Fulfillment of these expectations is what is required to obtain and keep their respect.
So their ability to respect is conditioned upon fulfilling their expectations. Major red flag. Why? Their expectations are promoted to be the ultimate authority of what guides their emotions and reasoning. It’s an idol. It shows lack of contentment. The Bible commands you to respect your father, and then your husband. There is no condition, other than that man being in a position of authority.
Now, to a degree, I can see that there are reasonable expectations to meet (godliness, faith, ability to provide, etc.). But “boyish” or playful behavior is not any sort of biblical standard as to what makes a good or mature husband.
It’s like they expect the young men to fill the void their father left, because father was absent…
And I just touched the underlying basis to all of this. In western culture, fathers are absent, or are emotionally absent. This destroys families and leaves huge gaps in the hearts of children. Women need an authority figure, and without a strong father, they seek to find a 2-in-1 combo of father and husband. (Men can do this too).
Here are the problems I’ve observed that I believe correlate with what I’ve described above, and are possibly the cause:
-absent fathers
-emotionally absent fathers
-Home schoolers led by a helicopter mother
-mother who exercises a tight rein on the family (wears the pants)
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Easy answers…
Is the criticism of others are what you hate in yourself?
Yes
Is there a lack of awareness in the critical person?
Yes
Are they narcissistic and only think positive things about themselves?
Yes
It’s the difference between the self-righteous and the sinner. The guy who points out other people’s faults while not seeing his own and the man who can’t even look up to Heaven and admits he’s a sinner who needs God’s mercy.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NABRE
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I’ll take it a little further.
They should respect the father and love the son.
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I think you guys are missing the point here.
“Sometimes he acts so immature, like a little boy!”
This is actually a good trait to have to be a good father. Interacting and playing with kids requires a certain amount of ability to set aside the seriousness of life and just enjoy being silly or crazy.
Also, Michal thought David was being “immature” (undignified) when he was dancing as the Ark of the Covenant was brought to Jerusalem. Look at how that turned out for her.
The issue is not maturity though. A woman’s preconceived notions of what they think is “mature” or not is their will manifesting as pride: they think they know what is better than the man they are with and are setting themselves up as the judge of that.
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Anytime a man man does something a woman doesn’t like he is “in the wrong”. Doing things like fishing, playing golf, riding your motorcycle are morally wrong if she doesn’t somehow directly benefit from them, or worse is denied some of your time and/or resources. But this also extends to doing things like mowing the lawn or cleaning out the gutters if you do them at times which she just finds inconvenient.
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i think this is interesting in that she probably needed to hear someone she respected (you) tell her that her fiance’s behavior is normal. once her perspective changes she will see this as not only normal but as something to value and guard and protect.
having a man who is comfortable and confident with his ‘little boy’ is a whole lot more fun in this thing called life than one who isn’t and suppresses it in the name of ‘growing up’ or ‘being a man’ or whatever other labels one wants to attach.
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i think this might be a good place to ask this question:
What do men think of the terms used often in Christian circles:
“godly person” (godly man or godly woman) and
“spiritual leader?”
i have my own thoughts, but i’ve wondered what the Christian men out here think and would appreciate your thoughts.
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Ame, could you provide a context for your question?
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sure … all of these are things i’ve heard over and over:
“I want to marry a man who is a spiritual leader.”
“She is such a godly woman,”
“Is the man you’re engaged to a godly man?”
“Men need to be the spiritual leaders of their home!”
“What a lovely godly couple they are!”
when you hear a person say these things (almost always a woman, come to think of it, but sometimes a man), what do Christian men think? what is your knee-jerk reaction?
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if i were to introduce you to a woman, “This is my friend. She is such a godly woman!” what would you think?
if a woman came up to you and said, “I want to marry a man who will be the spiritual leader of our home.” what would you immediately think?
if a woman said to you, “I just love my boyfriend! He’s such a godly man! I am sooo blessed!” what would you think?
when preachers (and others) say to men, “You need to be the spiritual leader, the spiritual head, of your marriage and your home!” what do you immediately think?
when someone tells you about a couple they know, and they say, “They are such a godly couple who love the Lord!” what do you think?
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What I should think of is a person who lives their life in a godly manner, and according to their god given role. For a woman: respects authority, her father, is modest on her own accord, is not contentious, doesn’t play the games most women play these days (when it comes to male interaction)
Quite frankly, I’ve met less than a handful of young women under 30 who meet the basic requirements of a biblical woman/wife. It’s sad
In reality, and based on my experience, a lot of “Christian” girls give lip service to wanting a godly man, a leader, etc. they paint it like they want a pastor. But when I look at all the couples that married from a church I used to attend (very large), none of the men who married were part of any ministry. All of the single dudes in ministry are not desired. It’s very sad.
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When I hear people talk about a “Godly husband, wife, marriage, etc.”, I get the idea that they have a happy, Christian marriage relationship. That is an elaborate thing to describe, so I think that is why they just call it “Godly”.
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To offer a contrast, a Biblically-based concept of Godlessness would mean someone who is foolish, selfish, having no faith in God, and spiritually immature. Of course, being married to such a person makes the relationship very difficult and unpleasant.
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i appreciate y’all’s thoughts and comments. my experience with ‘the church’ has been so … un-Christ-like … that when one uses these terms they mean that the person follows all the rules, or at least they follow the rules – in appearance – that the person giving the ‘compliment’ approves of. so, i’m a bit jaded.
but y’all have given me a refreshing perspective.
i’ve wondered if it becomes offensive for men to continually hear, “Men need to be the spiritual leaders of their homes!” it’s often, imo, used as a way to manipulate men to accept all women and to blame men for the ills of women and marriage and the church. so i’ve wondered if that’s also the perspective of men?
one example – i know a woman around my age who cannot even begin to add up her N count. she eventually married a man whom she later divorced. now she’s ‘turned her life around’ … God has forgiven her sins ‘as far as the east is from the west’ (meaning, don’t ask me about them b/c if God doesn’t remember them, no one else should, either), and she wants a ‘godly man’ who is a ‘spiritual leader’ this time around and ‘won’t settle for less!’
i think … b/c of what i’ve been thru and experienced … i’d much rather hear, “that person has a heart for God and loves Jesus.”
however … b/c these terms are still used, i’ve learned to take into account the person saying them. for some, it’s like a badge of honor, a medal, an achievement that makes one person better than another. for others, it’s a gift accepted in humility which they give back to Jesus knowing they are not truly worthy on their own.
does any of that make any sense?
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“Sometimes he acts so immature, like a little boy!”
I reckon this is one of the worst things a woman can think about a man. At the heart of this type of thinking is anger that the man enjoys some things she does not. She is jealous of that joy and angry that for those moments in time he ain’t staying in his harness and being her plow mule.
Over the years with the girls, my boyinishness has become foundational to the joys in our collective lives. My love of camping is their love of camping. My off roading has lead to the girls having their own jeep and taking 4 she’ll driving classes. My love of the water is our family time. My love of dogs is our passion for our chairty work etc etc etc and now they want our sons to grow up to be the same kind of boyish man.
I would say these things are as foundational to our lives togther as our sex life is. Otherwise life would be all work and what not
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Let me add though…. My boyishness is still very masculine which also stokes their sexual desire ( ie displays a mastery of life and the whole man vs nature thing) and a goodly amount of it builds up the family time. Fishing, camping, rocking climbing with the jeep, running out to the farm etc etc
I can most def see where things like watching cartoons and playing video games dries up a vagina.
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Ton, that’s a great description of the “little boy” aspect of authentic masculinity.
And you’re right. For a woman to condescendingly and disdainfully make a man out to be “an immature little boy” is truly one of the most horrifically disrespectful gestures a termagant can make. This is what DS was referring to, when he said that this kind of attitude is the wimminz’ will manifesting as pride, which leads them to set themselves up as a judge of his constitution. (BTW, DS wrote a nice piece on this angle. See the pingback link above.)
You’re also right on the money in presuming that such a woman has an inverted concept of headship. I recognized that my student has this attitude, but you know how it is, most women do. I can only hope that a few years of marriage will make her see the folly of it.
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“I can most def see where things like watching cartoons and playing video games dries up a vagina.”
^I think this is really sad, but sometimes can be true. I’ve seen couples where the husband has a hobby like collecting and building legos. The wife was noticeably embarrassed when talking about it. But they don’t have kids yet. Maybe it will change when she has appreciation for how that can be amazing for a child to be involved with their dad in?
I don’t know… my husband doesn’t do things like that. The closest he comes to having a boyish hobby is using video games to relax if or whenever he wants to. But he is otherwise more like Ton in how active he is and how he uses his passions and interests as part of family time. Now the video games can be part of that, too, with our oldest (8). It can be a kind of bonding activity. But he’d never let it be for hours a day (or even everyday).
He actually prefers to take our oldest rock climbing, swimming, and is going to be teaching him how to shoot pretty soon so that will add in the gun range as part of their “boyish” passions. I don’t know.. to me I guess I don’t view it as boyish but just as something fun they love to do.
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Stephanie, the fact that you don’t see that behavior as “boyish” is an indicator of your quality as a wife. 🙂
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When I hear “spiritual leader” the first thing I think of, is wtf are they leading? The second is that we are to be led by the Spirit, and third, she shouldn’t lead Him.
I do believe we are engaged in spiritual warfare every damn day, but I know that’s not what they are referring to. At least for me, that’s a covert mission my girls aren’t a part of.
Basically I hear, “I want a man I can emotionally manipulate and call it ‘being moved by the Spirit’.”
“godly couple” = he’s a nice safe beta chump.
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Ton, you make an interesting point. There are indeed two ways to interpret “Godly” as an adjective. One is conforming to God’s archetype, and the other is basically the Churchianized opposite of that. I suppose the usage would depend on who is doing the talking, and who they are talking about.
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I doubt there are any of God’s archetypes in Church as churches don’t want be ass men in their pews and frankly all men of God are bad motor scooters. Could you see David or Abraham or Paul or Peter who drew his sword or Shagamar who killed 600 men with an ox gode or Jousha or Caleb who were zealous for war against the enemies of Gos etting through a modern church service?
Neither can I. They mean bitch boy, broken to the saddle and beta
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I don’t know… my husband doesn’t do things like that. The closest he comes to having a boyish hobby is using video games to relax if or whenever he wants to
……
It’s probably a matter of scale vs video games themselves. Which I will say holds true for almost any hobby but vaping and sccoer. Plus your owner has an overtly masculine profession to help off set any possible vagina drying. Most men have bitch jobs, bitch hobbies and bitch lives
I love sweet muscadine wines, photography and blown glass/ glass art. Not particularly masculine stuff but there I am, salty, scared and tatted up looking at something I like….. the guy next to me with his soft little body, soft little hands and week eyes looking at the same piece and wondering the same damn thing I am…. do I like this enough to drop 4 hondo on It?
Frankly with me it adds depth. With him it’s just another level of mangina
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LOL maybe you’d appreciate this then.
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Ton – what you described is what I’ve experienced re godly and spiritual leader.
Excellent on boyishness.
Short comment cause cut hand and got stitches … and think drugs made me a little groggy.
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LOL slacker 😉
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LOL! Thought y’all might actually be glad 😊
Nurse asked how I was doing while doc was working on my hand. I looked at her and kinda laughed and said … ‘Actually, I’m pissed!’ I hate when stupid stuff happens to me 😀
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If I were her boyfriend and found out she didn’t like my way, I’d break up.
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