Don’t Admit Her Argument

This post examines how men inadvertently assume a subservient role whenever they defend themselves against a woman’s criticism, and how men should dismiss such arguments out of hand.

Readership: Men in LTR’s

The Natural Hierarchy within Successful Relationships

Every relationship has a structure of hierarchy.

One has expertise and authority, while the other adheres to structure and routine.

One is the mentor, and the other is the disciple.

One is the hero, and the other is the admirer.

One inspires, and the other is inspired.

Even in a friendship between peers, there is always one person who is esteemed to have more talents or gifts in one area over the other.

One is disciplined and goal oriented, the other is more creative and fun loving.

One is intelligent, the other is enthusiastic.

One is patient and peaceful, the other is the garrulous life of the party.

One is strong, the other is beautiful.

Lewis and Clark, Mason and Dixon, Batman and Robin, Zorro and Tonto, Abbot and Costello, Laurel and Hardy…

Then there are men like Donald Trump, and Richard Branson. Undoubtedly they have a legion of other men who help them manage their finances, contracts, businesses, etc. …and they have women galore!

Moreover, the guy on top is always the man with a stronger, better Frame.

Hierarchy in a Male-Female Relationship

While men and women both have their own unique set of natural skills and abilities which they bring into a relationship, men have the rightful place of leadership. Men are naturally more adept at the risk-taking that is involved with maintaining structure and order, making progress, and achieving success.

When women are nitpicky and overtly critical of a man’s behavior, it seems natural and right for the man to defend himself against her accusations.

He might entertain her argument because he is bothered by her logical errors and he thinks he needs to ‘set her straight’, or maybe he has the nerdy idea that he can ‘win’ the argument through a review of the facts and an exercise of reason.

But in fact, if a man responds in this way, he is committing a major faux pas.

A man who responds to a woman’s argument with a counter argument is dealing with her as he would another man. But… she is not a man! (Men have the decent respect not to dump on other men.)

Instead, the man should reject all her complaints and criticism out of hand.

Do NOT try to point out how her assessment of you is inaccurate.

Do NOT attempt to defend your actions and viewpoints.

Do NOT entertain her accusations as even the least bit legitimate.

Because in doing so, his actions and behavior become the subject to be examined, reviewed and criticized. This path leads to an unfavorable conflict structure in which the woman is making more demands than the man.

When a man defends himself against a woman’s criticism, it shows that he is assuming the subservient role. It reveals that he is willing to admit the possibility of being subject to her claim of him being inferior or inadequate.

If the man takes her assessment seriously, acquiesces to her judgment, and responds to her charges, then the man is accepting what she presumes to be his place as the gelastic, sidekick buffoon, and by doing so, he is unwittingly admitting dishonor and defeat.

He loses because the premises of the argument are proscribed according to her frame. Thus, by engaging in her argument he unwittingly submits to her frame. Thus, any time a man enters into an argument that defers to her demands, it automatically leads to his defeat.

Instead, the man should be calling the shots and making the demands. Several of my past posts have discussed this dynamic in general, but here I will offer a few poignant examples.

Case Study 1

A recent post on Chateau Heartiste, Opposite George Game (March 17, 2018) recounts a story of a guy who wears red on St. Patrick’s Day, while everyone else is wearing green.

“A girl walks over and gives him shit about his shirt, he smiles and, rather than smugly going off on not being Irish or how he’s too autistic to celebrate ethnic holidays in post-racial American, he says “eh, green makes me look washed out” or “I’m color blind. Feel better?” Or he might self-incriminatingly reply, ’I’m a nonconformist prick.’”

“Opposite George Game — “I’m unemployed and bald and live with my parents” — can juice your bantz to incredible heights as long as you avoid even a hint of defensiveness, discomfort, or trepidation, and you don’t take yourself, or your marks, too seriously.”

Although Heartiste doesn’t point this out, the friend in this story is refusing to submit to the woman’s criticism. Instead, he dismisses her jabs as playful banter, and he produces a like response.

Case Study 2

My friend told me about an argument he had with his wife.

She was angry because she thought he did not pick up a certain item (cucumbers) from the grocery store on his way home from work.

Actually he did get the item, and he had already put it away in the refrigerator, and she had not noticed it among the other items. So then she jumped to the conclusion that he had forgotten.

When she brought it up, he told her that he bought the item, and it was in the fresher. But even so, this was not an acceptable response in her mind. She continued to give him a barrage of complaints, and brought up several instances in the past when he had forgotten certain items. And she even remembered what all those items were, and the approximate dates or social events surrounding those ‘failures’.

To men, it seems ridiculous that she would take issue with this, but some women are never happy, no matter how much they are pampered.

True, she would show herself to be a more mature, refined, and dignified person if she had just responded with “Sorry, I didn’t notice that you had already put them away. Thanks! That’s so thoughtful of you.” Men expect women to show such gratitude, and it becomes problematic when they don’t.

So how should a man deal with a contentious leech?

Here’s a clue. She is not aggravating the discord because she thought he forgot, or because she thinks he is ‘too inconsiderate’, nor is she even creating strife as a form of ego preservation. While she might say these things, and while they may or may not be true, the real reason for the escalation of her anger is because he folded to her presumptuous demands by attempting to justify himself – which is a defensive measure.

It doesn’t matter whether he forgot or not. It’s more about dealing with her in a way that would make her realize what an overbearing termagant she would be if he didn’t put his foot down.

It is the feral woman’s unspoken and consistent goal to put the man on the defensive.

Never go on the defensive! Always keep her on her toes!

I told my friend that he should never try to justify himself through an argument like that. He was still confused, so I made some suggestions.

How about telling her something like this…

  • “Don’t worry about it. We still have some AA batteries in the drawer.” (Sexually suggestive humor)
  • “Sorry, they were out.” [Then later, do a cute little ‘magic trick’ and pull the cucumber out of your hat (or stick it down your pants and walk around the house). Let her be surprised and ashamed of herself for doubting you.] (Humor)
  • “Yeah… I’ve been meaning to tell you this for a while, but I really don’t like cucumbers (or whatever) in my omelettes (etc.). I’ve been trying to drop polite hints, but you just don’t get it.” (Confusion)
  • “Well then, Princess, here are the car keys. You can go get it yourself, if it is that important to you. I trust that you won’t have another accident like you did last year.” (Scornful Negation)

Case Study 3

Lately, I have been in the process of applying for a promotion. Because of all of the bureaucracy involved in documenting all my contributions to the University over the past 4 years, I asked my wife to help me, and she was eager to do so… at first.

But after a couple weeks of phone calls and filling out paperwork, she got frustrated and impatient. She kept pressuring me to finish it up and submit the application.

One Saturday, we were working in my office until after dark. I was reviewing the stack of papers we had prepared, and I found that I still needed to include some more documentation. She already knew this, but she didn’t want to invest any further efforts towards the endeavor. When I confronted her about why she didn’t bring it to my attention, she lashed out in anger.

“Why aren’t you finished with this yet? You are taking too long! Just finish this cover page and send it in. If they want more documentation, then they will send it back and tell us they need something more!”

I responded…

“How do you know that they will recognize that something is missing? Maybe they will just say, ‘this is insufficient for a promotion’ and then reject me?”

After a quiet moment of incrimination, she responded with,

“You have already wasted too much time on this! I don’t think you take it very seriously. You don’t work hard. You would rather spend time on your blog… <sarcasm>”

Meanwhile, I coughed, expectorated, and cleared my throat very obnoxiously. She continued…

“I have to do all this work for you. Why should I help you with this? You need to SHOW ME that you are going to work harder!

During her rant, I sat quietly at my desk, hands folded and listening to her. I know she feels uneasy about the longitudinal security and the financial lucrativeness of my career, because we discussed this before. But this time, I clearly got the impression that she imagined herself to be my personal manager, and I didn’t like it one bit. After she finished, I stood up and said,

“Look, I don’t need to PROVE to you my diligence and sincerity towards advancing my OWN career!”

“Furthermore, I don’t think it’s OPEN to your criticism!”

After that, I closed down my workstation and prepared my bags to leave. She followed on my cue, without a word.

She was quiet for the rest of the evening, and she even prepared one of my favorite dishes (beef stew) for dinner.

The next day, she found another item that should be included in my application, and told me about it.

Conclusions

In the face of a female provocation, low SMV men with a weak Frame usually think they need to ‘defend their position’, but doing so only shows their ready willingness to ‘answer to the boss’.

In the first Case Study, the friend owns his individuality with confidence, and refuses to go on the defensive. The magic of this is not in giving her a witty response as most men like to believe, but in his forthright, genuine, and indomitable attitude, even going so far as to mockingly identify as a basement browsing loser! Furthermore, the absurdity and incongruity of this response is in tune with the playful, sardonic banter offered by the woman – another hit.

In the second Case Study, it was hard to give my friend a ‘pat answer’, because all women have a different personality and disposition. Their relationship history is also a significant factor.

But generally speaking, humor is usually the best response for most women, and this tends to loosen up the tension.

However, certain women are not easily ‘entertained’. Confusion or negs might be better approach for those types of women. If she wants to be aggressive and confrontational, then you kind of have to be the same, but it is extremely important to remain totally calm in the process and DO NOT make her the target of your anger! Instead, wax her with your self-absorbed philosophy, and give her the acute impression that no satisfaction can be gained from challenging you. (I admit, this is painful and frustrating to endure, especially given the chance that it might take a long time before her gratitude and general happiness ‘wakes up’, if ever.)

In the third Case Study, it was clear to both me and my wife that I cared more about my career than she did, even though she claimed the opposite. Once this was established, if I tried to ‘reclaim my honor’ by naming all the things I did to complete the application, in order to prove her claims to be inaccurate, then I would have failed to maintain Frame. But by heatedly rejecting her opinion of me as being lazy (which was actually a case of psychological projection), I maintained my own Frame, and won her respect and deference in the process.

In summary, maintain your own Frame, and DO NOT EVER submit to hers!

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About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Conflict Management, Fundamental Frame, Handling Rejection, Leadership, Male Power, Models of Success, Relationships and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

10 Responses to Don’t Admit Her Argument

  1. SFC Ton says:

    It’s all about frame!

    Always maintain your frame, never slide into her frame!

    Liked by 6 people

  2. This was a really interesting read – thanks for sharing so openly about your own marriage. It’s very insightful.
    A lot of the methods you suggest are similar to things my husband does (although he’s not really into reading/analysing this kind of thing – it’s more just how he is naturally).
    I do try, in the Lord’s strength, not to be argumentative, but there are times when I fail in this area.

    Effective ways my husband has responded (in a situation like the work application) include saying, “We’re doing it, and I don’t want to hear any more complaining.”
    Or (in a situation like the cucumber thing – gosh, it’s such a bitchy thing to say to a man, but yes, I’ve said that kind of thing before!), he would stop and look straight at me and say, “Is it that time of month?” with a bit of a smirk and a hint of gentleness.
    And truthfully, it makes me kind of mad when he responds like that, but it also helps me to have perspective and clear direction for what to do. Get on with it, stop complaining and say sorry for my crappy behaviour.

    (P.S. Is it okay for women to comment on posts that are aimed at “Men in LTRs”?)

    Liked by 2 people

    • Wayne says:

      SeriouslyServing, comments from female readers are fine, as long as they are constructive or insightful. I think our male readers will appreciate your comments, which are saying in effect, that the approach described in the main post is effective and well received by women who are worth our efforts. Immediate feedback is important towards establishing Flow. So thanks!

      Liked by 3 people

    • dio noneofyourbusiness says:

      I think that it is important to introduce the Havard method of negotiations and conflict management into the Manosphere / RP community. It is a goal oriented method to defuse the emotions behind conflict and it has been used to defuse some of the worst and most quagmired political conflicts. But it “only” works when both parties are not negotiating in bad faith.

      Also an important book on the chapter of female arguments is “Instant Influence”.

      Honestly, I never had any of the senseless arguments with my wife of 13 years as described here. It is because of me keeping my frame and not taking cheap shots at her.

      Paradoxically, the only way to “win” such an argument is by not caring to win. I am outcome neutral and only goal oriented; The only thing that I care about is keeping my frame and to pull her into my frame of seeking a mutual goal/outcome.

      This also means having the spine to say: “OK, I hear your argument, and I guess that we just have to agree to disagree.” And leave it at that.

      Like

  3. Stephanie says:

    I know this goes against the assumption that Asian women are submissive, quiet and sweet… but I actually believe they need a much stronger hand sometimes based on my personal experience. You did great avoiding her attacks, but she would gain so much by reading a couple of book suggestions if you want me to email them to her.

    Women should never make their husbands feel like they want them to make more money, or promote, or pressure them to do something they’re not already doing. Helping him in HIS desires to promote, sure, that works really well 🙂 but making him feel as though he is less than will slowly kill his love for his wife, to the point where someday it will be irreparable 😦 .

    Liked by 2 people

    • SFC Ton says:

      Being military, I have seen a lot of Asian wives. They run a much more covert rebellion game then most sorts of split tail. And from the outside looking in, like Latina chicks, they stay childish for a long damn time.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. earl says:

    I think this points out when it comes to judgement….it’s more about God and/or a brother calling you out.

    Liked by 2 people

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