On November 15, 2017, I did a study of conflict structure, hoping to discover something that would improve marriages (namely my own). Since then, I have been experimenting with using this knowledge to enhance my relations with my wife. This post is a three-month progress report of my findings.
Targeted Readership: Men in LTR’s
A Summary of the Study: Conflict Structure and Marital Satisfaction
The stereotypical conflict structure, in which the wife demands and the husband withdraws, is known to destroy marriages over time. However, the opposite structure, in which the husband demands and the wife submits, foments marital contentment over the long haul.
The word ‘demand’ in the study, does not mean to dictate hot, angry commands. It merely describes the conflict structure, in which the person who brings up an issue and asks for a change is labeled as the one who demands. The other person, according to the structure, is required to respond somehow, and withdrawing or submitting are the most common types of responses. In other words, one person is the initiator of the conflict, and the other person is the respondent.
Identification of the Problem
After completing this study and gleaning the takeaways, I realized that I had no direct control to stop my wife from initiating conflict (being dissatisfied, unhappy and making demands). However, I soon realized that I could initiate conflict (make demands) as well as she could. It seemed counterintuitive that my initiating conflict would reduce conflict, but I recognized the general perspective of the Manosphere, that truth concerning women and relationships is not intuitively evident to men, and I put my faith in the study (and in the Lord). I reasoned that if I made more demands than she did, then it would essentially shift the conflict structure towards the husband-demands/wife-submits structure, leading to more mutual satisfaction. So I started experimenting with this.
Experimental Procedure
I implemented this strategy as follows.
I would not make a demand whenever she had just made a demand, nor whenever she was upset or angry about something. I knew this would not lead to anything productive. Instead, whenever a few days had passed without any conflict, I would make it a point to raise some issue of contention. Whatever came to my mind that bothered me in the slightest, I would express this to her, and ask for her to make a change in response.
I also explained how her change would lead to an improvement, whether it might involve her health, her own happiness, her relationships with her friends or family, our finances, our home environment, our marital relationship, etc.
I was not harsh, and I did not get angry or raise my voice. I was in no way out of control. I spoke with a voice of legitimate male authority, which is generally cool, calm, and patient, yet firm. I stated what was bothering me in an objective manner, and why. I stuck to my frame of mind, and I was persistent in asking her to say something that showed me that she understood what I was saying.
The study indicated that whenever the man makes the demand, the interaction is much more intense and stressful than when the woman makes the demand, and so I had to prepare myself beforehand, whenever I planned to make a demand. I thought through my point and my reasoning, and how to express it in words. I imagined what might transpire, and thought through those issues as well.
Immediate Results
As might be expected, she always flew into a rage whenever I made a demand. She usually assumed that I was blaming her, and she attempted to shift the blame back onto me. She gave me a lot of hamsterized excuses and ad hominem types of insults, all done in an effort to defend her ego and retain the upper hand in the argument. But no matter what she said or did, I retained frame and continued to prod her, not for an agreement, but simply for an acknowledgment. I contented myself in thinking that I was the one making the demand, and that she was the one who had to respond. After her anger had passed, she folded and complied. She hardly ever apologized for her angry, rude behavior, and insulting words, but I took the view that it did not matter in the slightest.
Longitudinal Results
Over time, I did see that she was more happy and content, and made fewer demands on me. In short, it worked like a charm!
Since then, I have come to understand that when I impose a demand, I am also inviting her to engage with me, and by doing so, I am also imposing discipline on her behavior. She seems to accept this as an inherent element of the conflict, with the idea that changes must be made in order to resolve the conflict.
Conclusions
A lot of husbands and wives have the wussified idea that the husband is loving his wife by doing whatever she demands. However, it has amply been proven in the Manosphere that this belief is a fallacy. Being an obedient husband does not register as ‘love’ on the wife’s radar. Instead, it conveys weakness, which women absolutely abhor.
But on the other hand, when I make a demand, then she must pull herself together to respond. Dealing with my demands pushes her to stop expecting me to change according to her whims, and to do some introspection instead. She must stop expecting me to make her happy, and must look within herself, and draw from her own emotional resources in order to maintain her own sense of balance and well-being. The comprehensive effect of this conflict structure is that it disciplines her to nurture her own inner sense of happiness. The byproduct of getting her into the habit of creating her own happiness, is that she realizes that she cannot expect or rely on others, i.e. her husband, to make her happy.
I was also happy to confirm another finding from the study, which is that my wife does not see my demandingness as being overbearing. Instead, she sees that I am adding balance to our interaction by contributing my viewpoints, instead of withdrawing, which really ticks her off. She interprets my demands as my taking an interest in developing our relationship. She also gets the satisfaction of knowing my mind about things. She does not express any positivity towards my demands, but it doesn’t matter. Over the long run, she is haaappy!
It is my hope that married men who are struggling with a contentious wife might go through my earlier study, and take the initiative to make their own demands as they see fit. I trust that this approach will help your relationship, as it has mine.
Related
- Chateau Heartiste: Appeasement Is No Way To Win Wars Or Women (May 12, 2014)
- Illimitable Men: Dominance and Submission (February 5, 2017)
A fascinating case study. I really enjoyed reading this, thank you. I’d wish for more details, but obviously those are personal and not appropriate for you to post.
I don’t have a contentious wife. When either of us raise a point of conflict with each other, it is usually because it is deserved. Sometimes I do something, say, unloving, and she points it out. Other times she does something wrong in, say, some point on raising the children, and I point that out. We usually acknowledge our faults and work to improve them. Our demands for each other are reasonable, not arbitrary or self-centered.
There are times when I stand my ground and make firm demands, but these are uncommon occurrences. I can’t think of any recent examples where she demanded something that I didn’t agree with eventually.
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Opposite here; I demand, she avoids then submits. It’s quite strange, actually, and far less common than the inverse. 20 years & half as many kids makes for a long time for this unusual dynamic.
I think the wife who just “doesn’t care” often has some diet issues (too much sugar or carbs) or nutritional deficiency issues (typically Magnesium, Iodine, or vitamin D). It’s always worth a try.
While rare, it’s more common today as modern women have less expectations. It’s usually in the form of a high-achieving husband (intense and/or oft professional) with a relaxed, bored wife. Usually she is both pretty and submissive both tho since few men will stand for a woman’s “no care” very long as his house plummets into chaos; she’s gotta have something worth sticking around for.
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Good on you mate. “Frame” is more specific than any other word for an ancient characteristic in some males. It is a feature of successful marriages that I am aware of IRL.
I wonder how long the word “frame” has been around? The first time I saw it was in spawnyspace, which didn’t exist before late 2014.
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The word ‘frame’ dates back to the 1300’s, and has gained many meanings since then. The noun, ‘frame’, as it is currently used in the Manosphere, came into regular use sometime before 2008. PUA’s borrowed the concept of ‘reframing an argument’ from stand-up comedy, and coined the term’s meaning as we know it today.
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when a husband does not initiate conflict, as you describe here, the wife feels the burden to always have to be the one to take care of things. when the man steps up into this role, which is his, regardless of how she reacts, internally she can finally relax. it removes an intense amount of stress from the wife. she now knows her husband will take care of issues that need to be cared for. she knows he will exercise his authority with confidence and strength from an offensive position and not a reactive position.
my first husband was continuously angry and reactive. i would ask him what i could change, what made him angry, what he wanted different, and he never told me. he never explained why he was angry, but i sure did ‘pay’ for his anger. if he would have been proactive, taken the offensive position, taken his authority with strength and confidence, and plainly laid out the demand/expectation, endured my shit test, we would have had a phenomenal marriage. but he remained in the reactive position which allowed him to blame me for all the ills in his life and our marriage, and allowed him to dodge all his responsibility on every level.
idk how to express what you just wrote to men, but women do NOT like a weak man who takes what is given. we do not want that authority. we NEED our husbands to be strong, proactive, to maintain frame no matter what we do or what happens anywhere. we NEED it like we need oxygen. when a man fumbles here, the pressure and anxiety the wife feels b/c she assumes he has dumped his responsibilities onto her is enormous, and she cannot handle the weight. she was not made to handle this kind of weight and responsibility.
also, this is not something wives can give their husbands; it’s something husbands must take. i can submit to my husband, but if he does not take authority in the marriage, it cannot give him authority. he must take it and keep it and maintain it. he must keep control of the ball and stay on offense. yes, it’s work. but it’s much better than having a wife who is reacting to the pressure of taking on his role by default because he forfeits it.
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but if he does not take authority in the marriage, it cannot give him authority.
should read: but if he does not take authority in the marriage, I cannot give him authority.
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Ame, thanks for sharing the woman’s perspective with us.
Maybe your first husband really didn’t know what he needed. Most men are like this.
Women notice a lot of things that men do not, and women are concerned about a lot of things that men are not. These are the typical sources of the famous ‘nagging’ and ‘complaining’ that men get from women.
I found that if I do my own share of nagging and complaining, then that serves to reframe my wife’s concerns for the better, as I described in the OP. But if I don’t, then her viewpoints take prescience, and it renders me looking foolish or negligent.
I believe that for most men, if their wives just assumed that nothing is wrong, or that he would take care of it in his own way, then this sends a powerful message of faith and trust in him, which is incredibly inspiring and motivating for men.
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I know this is years old but for those folks who read through older posts this needs to be pointed out …
By logic, a husband who must take, keep and maintain authority does not have a submissive wife. He has a rebellious wife that he must subdue by strength. Think of a husband who is more passive by nature. He may take longer to think through decisions. He may be uncertain about what decision to make. While a wife may be frustrated by such a husband, a wife following God’s intended hierarchy for marital authority should be building up her husband’s confidence, and adjusting herself to his style. (You had the option to bail, right up until you said “I do”.) An insistence that the husband “take authority” is a woman wanting a man to do things her way. He’s the husband. God gave him the authority. He doesn’t have to take it. If you don’t like his style, you chose a poor fit for yourself.
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Red Pill Apostle,
a lot is assumed in your comment. my story has been told many times,
so i’m not sure i want to rehash it.
did i not choose well? was he not a good fit? if i’d have known about his
addiction years earlier would it have made a difference? how many ways
did i need to try to submit to him? when he asked for x, and i did x, he got
angry b/c i didn’t do y. when i next did y, he got angry b/c i didn’t do z. and
so the pattern continued.
what i know now, after many years, would have been very beneficial to
have known back then, when i was 19 and first met him. he was a man who
was always angry – it simmered below the surface continually. he often quoted
the line from the first Red Dawn where the guy says something like, “I like
my anger. It’s like a blanket; it keeps me warm at night.”, when what he wants
and desires changes like shifting sands on the shore, when what made him
happy this morning makes him angry this evening, when … when … when …
when it’s never enough. speak. keep silent. do. be still. no matter what i did,
he was angry.
in an ideal world i would have grown up with parents who didn’t abuse me,
who loved me, who were there and helping when i was making such huge
life choices. but, i did not. i did seek counsel from three people regarding
marrying this man – a counselor, a professor, and a college pastor. we did
premarital ‘counseling’ with the pastor of our church. i read books, sought
counsel, prayed fervently and read my bible.
did he lack confidence? yes. that was ingrained into him from his father. i loved,
LOVED encouraging him. i was his biggest cheerleader. i believed in him.
did it matter? idk. what he ended up saying, or rather spitting in my face, was,
“I know what you think!”
he did not care what i thought. what he wanted was his father’s approval,
which i could not give him. this, i did not learn till we had been married
many, many years.
adjusting to his style? YES! i LOVED adjusting to his style, his desires, his
personality, his likes and dislikes!!! and he both loved and hated that in ways
i may never understand.
i’ve never said anywhere i was a perfect wife. but there are men who do not
fall into all these things mentioned out here in TRP world.
my second marriage – totally different ballgame; not even the same sport.
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Ame – My comment was directed at the logic in the sentiment. Simply put, that a man must take, keep and maintain authority is not biblical. Authority is his, given to him by God as a husband. How a husband exercises that authority makes a wife’s role easier or harder, which is where wisdom in the choosing comes in.
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I agree that God gives the man authority, but if he ignores it, doesn’t claim it, then simply being submissive, respectful and loving does not guarantee he will exercise the authority given him.
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I think the issue with Ame’s first husband was a lack of love, and not anything about authority.
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Interesting, Jack. Lack of love on his part so had no desire to have authority?
IDK. I think he loved me the best he knew how to love, but what his Dad did to him over his whole lifetime really screwed up his understanding of love. Even at his funeral, his dad and brother, both pastors, said such terrible things about him that’s very prominent people came up to us afterwards and apologized – and it had been years since the divorce.
In the end, our girls and I see his as a very tragic life, yearning with every breath for the approval of the one man who should have given it freely yet intentionally withheld it with pride, demeaning him passive aggressively through his whole life. And he just could not get over it.
Ironically, he was dating another girl when he met me but she had a previous commitment to homecoming, so he invited me. His parents were in town and I met them on our first date, and they picked me, going so far a few months later as to say the Lord showed them that I was the one they had been praying for all his life. But over the years when I submitted to my husband over his dad, his parents turned against me and came to hate me with a seething hate. I believe, as do our girls, that his parents are at the root of him divorcing me 😥.
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