A Response to Stephanie’s Comments

Stephanie, thank you for your candid comments.

When I composed that last post, “Book Review: The Love a Wife Desires, the Respect a Husband Needs (5 stars)” (December 18, 2017), I wrote the introduction, Respect is Paramount!, to put an emphasis on how much men need and value respect. From there, I introduce Eggerichs’ book as a source of information on this topic. I believe that this book has much to offer both men and women who are sincerely seeking to improve their marriage or LTR.

I respect Dalrock very much, and I have read enough of his posts to know his stance towards Complementarianism. So based on your comments, I am now reconsidering the book in light of Complementarianism. I did not have this question in my mind while I was reading it, and I suppose I would have to read the book again with a critical mind to see if Eggerichs offers any sympathies for the heretical, Feminist aspects of Complementarianism.

BTW, I searched for the authors name, “Eggerichs”, on Dalrock’s site, and nothing came up, so I assume he has not addressed this particular book in the past.

When I read this book, I saw that Eggerichs was giving the goad to BOTH men and women to act in a more mature, altruistic manner in marriage, and to focus on changing one’s own behavior, rather than relying on the other person to change, which I believe is pretty solid advice (for couples who are sincerely seeking improvement). I found his message was particularly hard on women, since the whole idea of ‘unconditionally offering a man the respect he needs’ (and not making him work to ‘deserve’ it first) is a message that has been clouded and demonized by Feminist philosophy. This, I feel, was the main message of the book – that wives respecting their husbands is just as important as husbands loving their wives, and Eggerichs makes the point that it is particularly MORE important for wives to respect their husbands, if they wish to see a transformation in their relationship – and I wholeheartedly agree with this main point. To me, this further emphasizes how important it is for men to be extremely critical in their choice of a wife, and for women to take their role as a wife very seriously. To my knowledge (and I am fairly well read), this point was totally absent from Christian literature before Eggerichs, and it is sorely needed to make marriages work. So I applaud Eggerichs for bringing this truth to public attention.

Now, there is one caveat. I would say that Eggerichs’ underlying assumption is that BOTH partners are fully invested in improving the relationship, and are simply ignorant of the impact that love and respect can have on the relationship. He assumes that the partners are NOT just using the marriage as a vehicle to achieve their own selfish ends (although he does discuss situations where this is the case). This is an important assumption to take note of when estimating the value of the advice therein. I have to admit, posing this contingency that BOTH partners have a good will towards the marital relationship, and are willing to work at it, is a rather special case in American society, as it is conspicuously removed from recognizing the corruption of the Social/Sexual/Marriage market place, and the debasement of marriage that a lot of people are now experiencing. This is perhaps the greatest weakness of the book.

Eggerichs wrote another book which I read, called “The Language of Love and Respect”, and Chapter 4 in this book was about “Can you trust your spouse’s goodwill?” Here, Eggerich entertains the more pressing issue in society at large, that some people are, in fact, NOT putting their whole heart into their marriage. Eggerich correctly postulates that ‘God will bless and reward the faithful’, in spite of any faithlessness on behalf of his/her partner. However, I think this advice would be considered pie-in-the-sky by most, as it is not enough to satisfy anyone who is struggling through a case of adultery or divorce. So again, I feel this book is of most value to those good-willed spouses who cherish their marriage and want to make it better.

Honestly, I doubt that Eggerich will ever espouse a total Red Pill submersion, so personally, I will just take the useful truths out of the book (and there are many), and be content with that bit of progress in my own understanding. For my readers, I hope that my review will offer enough information for them to decide whether the book would be helpful to them or not. I am speaking from my own opinion of the book, and I am not getting any kickbacks from the publisher. (Although that would be nice.)

I do know that feminists HATE Eggerichs’ books, and I have personally seen a feminist, in an angry rant, rip up a copy of “Love and Respect” before my very eyes. That is enough proof for me that Eggerichs is telling the unpleasant, anti-feminist truths that are contained in Ephesians 5:33 and elsewhere in the Bible. But I acknowledge that even though this book has confirmed many of my beliefs concerning respect and successful relational dynamics, and has given me the words to discuss such things with others, perhaps I am only suffering from a confirmation bias, and so my analysis of the book will remain unsatisfying for many of my readers.

I’ll let readers know, I have been living overseas in a very traditional, Patriarchal society since 2004 (and very happily, I might add), so I admit I am probably out of touch with the current scene in the U.S. However, it is my hope that my readers will appreciate my writings as an objective viewpoint that is hard-won, and far removed, from Feminist culture and influence. In my blogging endeavors so far, I have written mainly about my own challenges and enlightenments, and I do believe I have a very unique perspective that would prove to be insightful for others. Even so, I am still learning about what I could write from my own wealth of knowledge, perspectives and experiences that would be most beneficial (and engagingly entertaining) for readers in the U.S. and worldwide. Any sincere suggestions for topics or improvements are welcome.

One final note, I know Dalrock has a beef with Evangelicals too. I myself am an evangelical, a prize student schooled in a mid-western, bible-thumping, Southern Baptist Church (although I would not identify myself as a Southern Baptist at present). But from what I have read on Dalrock, the Manosphere at wide, and the news, I have learned that there have been several problems with Evangelical doctrine that have come to light recently, including things like ‘Churchianity”, ‘Complementarianism’, ‘Prosperity Preaching’, and others. Dalrock, Zippy Catholic, Donal Graeme, and other Christian Red Pill blogs have helped me see how modern Christian doctrine has been undermined and adulterated (for some time) by the Feminist culture at large. I am deeply grateful for that, and I regret not having found the Red Pill blogging sphere any sooner. I recognize that I, like many others on the sphere, am in a continual process of uncovering the Truth, and learning how to properly apply it; hence, my enthusiasm for blogging and The Red Pill.

About Jack

Jack is a world traveling artist, skilled in trading ideas and information, none of which are considered too holy, too nerdy, nor too profane to hijack and twist into useful fashion. Sigma Frame Mindsets and methods for building and maintaining a masculine Frame
This entry was posted in Communications, Discerning Lies and Deception, Questions from Readers, Respect, Reviews, Society and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

11 Responses to A Response to Stephanie’s Comments

  1. Pingback: Book Review: The Love a Wife Desires, the Respect a Husband Needs (5 stars) | Σ Frame

  2. Stephanie says:

    “I believe that this book has much to offer both men and women who are sincerely seeking to improve their marriage or LTR.”

    I think it was pretty good, too. It’s very rare for me to agree with a book 100%, other than the Bible. I thought His Needs Her Needs did a better job of pointing out the myriad of ways women cause their men to feel tempted to cheat. I’ve never read a more “to the point” book on what most men truly need. It’s like your 16 qualities of irresistible women, only fleshed out into real life examples of his patients from counseling, and in how they messed up those qualities then found their husband in bed with someone else. We still give it out as wedding gifts to new couples – we think it’s that good 🙂 .

    ” found his message was particularly hard on women, since the whole idea of ‘unconditionally offering a man the respect he needs’ (and not making him work to ‘deserve’ it first) is a message that has been clouded and demonized by Feminist philosophy. This, I feel, was the main message of the book – that wives respecting their husbands is just as important as husbands loving their wives, and Eggerichs makes the point that it is particularly MORE important for wives to respect their husbands, if they wish to see a transformation in their relationship – and I wholeheartedly agree with this main point.”

    If that is truly the case with what he says in the book, then that is great! I wish I still had it so I could go over it again and refresh my memory. For some reason I just didn’t like it as much as all the other books I read. I thought I remembered thinking he was too hard on the men in trying to get them to think like women in order to understand and not offend their wives. But it was so long ago, I could be wrong.

    The Crazy Cycle was good, though. It’s just sad that I’ve seen it not work when the husband steps off of it to be rational… the wife will keep going on the Crazy Cycle, and it will give her more momentum in pursuing a divorce to see him be “passive” (no longer “crazy”) and rational. I guess he’s kind of relying on the theory that if a husband acts kind and respectful, that his wife will automatically respond to him in kind. It’s so sad it doesn’t always work that way.

    What I have seen work is dread game used by the husband. But I’m not sure that wouldn’t be considered part of the “Crazy Cycle” to the author. In dread game, a husband shows he truly values himself, and that he has options and she’s able to feel and see that he does (which scares her into treating him better). Some Christian men think that is too much manipulation of a wife… I think it’s just reality that if you have a high value man, you should be insecure if you’re mistreating him and making it harder for him to want to stay faithful to you.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Sigma Frame says:

      Eggerichs wrote those books before the Manosphere came into being, so of course, there are no Red Pill insights. There are a few dynamics which he doesn’t cover, as you mentioned. I would be interested to know how he thinks today, his views towards the Manosphere and Red Pill concepts, such as dread.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Stephanie says:

        I was in a marriage group not long ago where I was helping counsel women in their marriage problems, and a few of the women (they were all Christian since it was a Christian group only), mentioned his book and how it was abusive and oppressive toward women. I was shocked… but it’s interesting the few saying that, were the same ones who came to us after a couple of decades of treating their husbands horribly, and on the brink of divorce (he was filing), and trying our group was their “last ditch” effort. They wanted to be submissive, good wives now, and some maybe really were sincere. But their husbands had usually had enough by then, and their efforts looked really manipulative (whether they were or were not, it’s hard to know).

        Anyway… their attitude toward that book really stuck with me. I believe one woman had actually gone to one of the author’s live events and gave us a “testimony” on just how bad he really was lol. You asked what he thinks today? I think he’s having trouble with women like this… I think even though his book made pains to call out both males and females, some Christian women still view him as an abusive patriarchy fellow.

        The kicker… those few women ended up destroying our group – causing it to literally implode, and it now no longer exists due to our leader’s inability to control or monitor them and constantly deal with correcting their falsehoods they were spreading in the group. When it became clear to them that their husbands weren’t going to come back, and when their divorces began to become more real, they suddenly decided that all along their husbands were actually “emotionally abusing” them. They went from “I feel so horrible… I know I was wrong to treat him so badly for decades… but I want to change and be a sweet, submissive wife now! I’m so sorry for how much I hurt him.” To “Actually… after months of trying to win him back with no luck, I’ve now come realize that HE was the one abusing ME all those years! I was just responding to his emotional abuse and controlling “needs!” That’s why I acted so “bad,” it was because he was so abusive first!”

        It was ridiculous.

        Our poor main ministry leader just gave up and kind of let them win by shutting it all down. I was one of the counselor women, and it was hard to see that just a few bitter women could ruin an entire atmosphere built for helping marriages and where many marriages WERE being helped. They should have been kicked out in my opinion, but our leader was very soft and didn’t want to offend them.

        Just thought that would be interesting for you to hear concerning how Christian women react to that book currently. Most in that group probably would have agreed with Love & Respect and had no problem, even feel convicted and would have used it to readily change their behavior. But then again it was a really conservative, submissive-minded group. A rare treasure that was destroyed because of a few critical, loud-mouthed women who ultimately, hated their own husbands.

        Interesting how the loudest voices in a group, are often the minority that in no way represent what’s best for the group, and then end up poisoning the atmosphere that was designed for good.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Ame says:

        the eggerichs were the first that i remember to really speak these truths. i remember just hearing the paragraph summary and thinking, “Yes! Why haven’t I heard this before?!” it’s like people were pussy-footing around, but these two just stated what the bible says. as i think about it, they were probably forerunners to a lot of manosphere stuff b/c those who disregarded their teaching fed into the reasons men are so (understandably so) disgruntled.

        there will always be people who abuse God’s Word and Truth – satan is a deceiver, and it wouldn’t be very deceptive if evil were clearly marked as evil.

        an example … my first husband and his parents abused the word, ‘respect.’ ANYtime they didn’t like something, they labled it ‘disrespect.’ and that list was endless. it turned into a damned if you did, damned if you didn’t kind of thing. if i disagreed with an opinion, i was being disrespectful. they believe(d) dancing and drinking alcohol were evil and sins b/c they lead to illicit sex. i disagreed that dancing and drinking were sins and evil, therefore i was disrespectful. another example … if we had a list of things to do, and i suggested we switch # 2 with #5 because the locations would fit better switched into the day’s schedule, i was being disrespectful. BUT … if i didn’t say anything, and NOT switching turned out to cause problems in the day, then i was disrespectful for NOT saying anything. it was endless like this, and i got to where i hated and despised the word ‘respect’ and ‘disrespect’ b/c i could never get it right.

        with this husband i’m married to now, he’ll tell you that i treat him with respect most of the time … except when i really don’t want to. and then he calls me on it and deals with it.

        so i’ve lived it done wrong, and i’m living it done right. and i know it’s abused. however, that the bible is abused does not cancel its truth.

        and i do understand the ‘crazy cycle,’ but when i read the bible, there’s not an ‘if-then’ clause on love and respect. i don’t get to choose to respect my husband only when i think he’s loving me the way i think he should. it’s a command with a period. i have to treat my husband with respect, or i am in sin … regardless of whether or not he has earned it or deserves it or if he ever does.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Ame says:

    i think it is hard to understand the huge impact the Eggerichs’ had when they came on the scene. there was nothing like what they presented so clearly (to my recollection). to bluntly tell women, “Respect your husband. Period.” was a huge change in thinking and teaching at that time. if i remember correctly, it was the first i’d even heard that concept spoken so plainly and succinctly.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. earlthomas786 says:

    ‘I found his message was particularly hard on women, since the whole idea of ‘unconditionally offering a man the respect he needs’ (and not making him work to ‘deserve’ it first) is a message that has been clouded and demonized by Feminist philosophy.’

    I think the root of MOST divorces is the wife willingly choose to disrespect the husband. It can be manifest in nagging, withholding sex, rebelling, putting him down, being cold, abandoning him, etc. But she made the choice to do it.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. SFC Ton says:

    for couples who are sincerely seeking improvement…. which is something else I have never witnessed 1st hand. I have seen men grind out all the recommendations thrown their way in an attempt to fix marriages. I only know of one woman who owned her shit and fixed her shit to save the marriage

    Another fine bit of work Sigma, The Ton salutes your efforts

    Liked by 2 people

    • earl says:

      It’s because the recommendations for men are pointless and there’s really no recommendations for women other than to blame her husband for her disrespectful attitude.

      Being even more kind to her and doing more chores when she’s acting disrespectful and rebellious isn’t going to work. She needs correction.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Pingback: A Response to Jason’s Comments | Σ Frame

  7. Pingback: Strategies for the Iterated Prisoners’ Dilemma | Σ Frame

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